backtop

Print E-mail del.icio.us 85 comment(s) - last by Screwballl.. on Jun 12 at 12:07 PM
Wal-Mart considering its own Nerd Herd

When a company grows to become as gigantic as Wal-Mart, it often becomes a struggle to find ways to increase profits and expand into new, untapped markets. Wal-Mart announced that it is looking at ways to expand its current store offerings and move into more Asian countries. Wal-Mart already has a presence in China, Japan and India, but wishes to expand further into Southeast Asia.

In addition to expanding into Asian presence, Wal-Mart executives say that the company is considering moving into electronics services. MarketWatch says that one of the key areas that some analysts signal out as a main differentiator between Wal-Mart and Best Buy is the Geek Squad service.

Wal-Mart executives didn’t provide further details on when or if it would actually begin offering electronics services.

Wal-Mart’s proposed move into electronics services may seem like a strange move considering its somewhat limited lineup of electronics and computer/peripheral lineups in comparison to electronics retailers like Best Buy and Circuit City. Perhaps a move into electronics service would push Wal-Mart to further expand its business in this area.

Geek Squad has grown to become a large source of income for Best Buy and has sparked rivals like Circuit City’s firedog. Geek Squad, however, hasn’t been without controversy and one woman filed a $54 million suit against Best Buy after the Geek Squad lost her laptop in the store, which was filled with personal information she claims could open her up to identity theft.

Comments     Threshold


This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled
Say what?
By imaheadcase on 6/11/2008 9:23:37 AM , Rating: 1
"MarketWatch says that one of the key areas that some analysts signal out as a main differentiator between Wal-Mart and Best Buy is the Geek Squad service."

That is the dumbest thing I have read all day, I have read slashdot comments today so that says a lot.

Main differentiators? Oh how about the fact the two don't even compete with each other at all. DVD/music front withstanding, they don't even compete...its like apples to oranges. Esp given the fact the best-buy to wal-mart ratio is way off, at least in my state I have yet to even see a Best Buy near a wal-mart.

I tell you what, most the news items I've seen this last couple weeks have been really retarded, its like monkeys typed them out.




RE: Say what?
By TheSpaniard on 6/11/2008 9:29:40 AM , Rating: 2
I think they refer to specifically the electronics department...

that said Ive always known Best Buy to carry name brand and higher (audio equipment) end stuff while WalMart carries a more middle of the road stuff

other than that both have TVs, video games, music/DVD (although all WalMarts only carry edited content), and computers


RE: Say what?
By MrBlastman on 6/11/08, Rating: 0
RE: Say what?
By FITCamaro on 6/11/2008 10:07:40 AM , Rating: 2
No Best Buy does not carry the highest end stuff. But their Magnolia division does carry high end stuff. As far as their prices, they're typically competitive for the actual TV and sound system. Yes cabling you can get much cheaper online but thats true for any brick and mortar store.

The only thing pushy about Best Buy is their service plans. But their prices for them are much lower than Circuit City's. And normally it isn't a bad deal. Mine was $200 for in-home service on a $1000 TV for 4 years. I plan to use it to get the bulb replaced before the 4 years is up.

As a former employee of Best Buy from my youth, I have my own beefs. But its not with their prices. I mostly buy DVDs and video games there. But I bought my DLP there, my surround sound (no its not the best but I wasn't looking for it), and my washer and dryer.


RE: Say what?
By HotdogIT on 6/11/2008 10:14:21 AM , Rating: 1
Feel like a big man now, claiming all Wal Mart employees are low brow idiots?


RE: Say what?
By MrBlastman on 6/11/08, Rating: 0
RE: Say what?
By HotdogIT on 6/11/2008 10:31:55 AM , Rating: 2
Maybe so, but your cavalier attitude towards insulting a group of people just rubbed me the wrong way.


RE: Say what?
By MrBlastman on 6/11/2008 10:54:19 AM , Rating: 2
If Wal-Mart would actually take the time to train their employees, it would make a huge difference on customers experience in the store.

When I worked in a grocery store, the first thing my supervisor taught me was that when a customer comes up to you and asks you where something is, you take them to the item and if you don't know where it is - you FIND IT for them.

You never, ever say - "I don't know."

Walmart has never learned this lesson. I consistently get that same answer when I ask someone at Walmart where things are.


RE: Say what?
By callmeroy on 6/11/2008 12:03:00 PM , Rating: 2
First disclaimer - I hate Wal*Mart, I hate them because I don't like crowds of folks to begin with and in the stores near me it seems to attract a lot of what most commonly would be know as "white trash"...though I'm sure a small % are fine quality folks. At any rate I don't frequent Wal Marts that much - you could count on one hand how many times I'm in their store on a yearly basis.

This all said, the service hasn't been too bad - no worse than any number of stores I could rattle off -- including Best Buy among them.


RE: Say what?
By zombiexl on 6/11/2008 12:53:02 PM , Rating: 1
Generally I see trash there (white, black it doesnt matter).
I have been to walmart more than i would like lately and I can say there is nothing quite like walmart on welfare (or SSI) check day. Its almost like human roaches crawling out of the woodwork.


RE: Say what?
By PWNettle on 6/11/2008 2:52:20 PM , Rating: 2
I go to walmart since I don't see much point in paying more for every day junk.

I see a wide variety of people in the walmarts I've been to (in PHX, where you can have luxury neighborhoods next to barrios or other "lower" neighborhoods.

I'll see everything from trophy wives, to CEOs, to what you might call "trash" and everything in between. There is no single demographic. The thing walmart shoppers have in common is they want to pay as little as possible for whatever they're buying.

Side note. Is being an elitist better than being "trash" ? Hmm.

It's not like I'd buy a PC, clothes, stereo equipment or whatever from walmart because they don't carry what I want. But if I want generic every day crap why would I pay more for it? That'd be stupid. Especially these days where fuel costs are causing everything else to rise in price. Walmart raises their prices by pennies - most other business see it as a chance to add much more significant markup. A can of soup might go from 167 to 174 at walmart, while that same can of soup would go (from already costing more) from 189 to 209, since wally doesn't care about having prices that don't end in a 9.

Anyways - I think it would be a mistake for walmart to do this. For one, they're already huge and make zillions - they don't need more money and this is a risky market to enter. Doing electronic support requires specialized staff they have no other need for and requires specialized inventory they currently don't stock. It also opens you up to liability.


RE: Say what?
By callmeroy on 6/11/08, Rating: 0
RE: Say what?
By ebakke on 6/11/2008 5:26:32 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Good question - maybe ask walmart executives that one.

Does that include Hillary Clinton? I'd argue that 'executives' includes the Board.


RE: Say what?
By ebakke on 6/11/2008 5:29:39 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
And what I don't understand about folks is "but walmart is cheaper!"....who gives a flying F!

Sorry for the double post. But the answer to your question is: a friggin' massive amount of people.


RE: Say what?
By Reclaimer77 on 6/11/2008 6:35:06 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
What? Oh you never read the stories or heard of the lawsuits against them for questionable practices - particular how they were accused of some racist policies, evading taxes, extremely low wages, paying illegal immigrants to work for them, etc. etc....


Well hell man, what company worth its salt in American hasn't been dragged into lawsuits ? I suppose you also strictly avoid Intel products, Microsoft, Mc Donalds, etc etc ? Yeah thats what I thought.

Also they were ACCUSED, as you say, of those things. It doesn't make it a fact.

quote:
Anyone who thinks WalMart just has low prices "well because of their size".....you must live in a very naive and pretty world of make believe.


And anyone who thinks we CARE why their prices are low is entirely missing the point.

quote:
As for the elitist thing again -- I can only speak for my comment....I report what I see -- and I see TRASH in the store. Ie. My definition of trash -- people who have no manners, slovenly dressed, rude, inconsiderate etc. in the two walmarts I've ever gone to up here that's overwhelming what I see.


Hmmm no your not an elitist. Your a bigot. Congrats on your level up + !

quote:
Hands down, if you believe it or not - its the truth...in my area in other stores there is no where NEAR the concentration of "trashy" customers.


Because in other stores in your area there aren't nearly as many people in them as there is in a Wal Mart. The human mind accepts the reality with which it is presented. I seriously doubt you went around with a notepad and counted all the " trash " people and did a subjective study. No, your a bigot who got annoyed one day at a few long lines and labeled the whole place a den for trashy people. Your an ass.

quote:
And what I don't understand about folks is "but walmart is cheaper!"....who gives a flying F! If I save a dollar on some cheaply made item, have to be stressed out by waiting (because its mobbed) and the crowds in general..


You just answered your own question. A LOT more people than you give a " flying F ". Maybe its just them and not you, but I doubt it.

quote:
PLUS now with gas at over $4 -- in my case Walmart is also a further drive for me than other stores.


Now, finally, you make a single solitary legitimate point. Except nobody ASKED you to drive further to go to WalMart.

I love how you tell people who are saving money that they should not care, and that they are " trashy " for going to WalMart. Then you bring up your own fuel costs and how you are trying to save money. Maybe I should make a long bigoted ignorant hate fest that people who want to save gas are " trashy ". Who gives a flying F about your gas, right ?


RE: Say what?
By zombiexl on 6/11/2008 8:36:31 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Side note. Is being an elitist better than being "trash" ? Hmm


So its being an elitist to think that people shouldnt be rude. I guess its also elitist to think people should work for their money instead of living off my back via taxes?


RE: Say what?
By arazok on 6/11/2008 9:13:44 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Side note. Is being an elitist better than being "trash" ? Hmm.


Yes.


RE: Say what?
By mindless1 on 6/12/2008 6:39:54 AM , Rating: 2
You want them to take the time to train, you want the employees to give a crap, yet you are horribly confused.

The whole point was to reduce Walmarts costs. You can't have cheap prices and superior service, Walmart figured that out and that is why they have made so much money.

Let me tell you about reality in a store with only enough employees to barely get the job done. When someone comes up and asks where something is, you don't pretend to know and trapse around the store because you have work to do. If you stopped doing your job to show a customer something, other customers then have problems because your work was directly to mean some other customer need.

If you worked in a grocery store that wasn't busy enough, where you had the luxury of walting around at your discretion, good for you, but that is not how cut-rate places like Walmart operate. If you aren't a customer service rep you keep doing what you were told to, not having individual freedom to do off helping customers.

Walmart is cheaper because it's self-serve. Go somewhere that costs more and the addt'l revenue can pay for more employees and pay them well enough they care. It can also pay enough to attract skilled, seasoned knowledgable employees instead of those taking whatever job they can get. This is not a knock against all Walmart employees, but in a store the size of most of them you can't pick one random employee and expect that particular one to be equivalent to the average employee at a place that pays better.

Where have you been that you wouldn't understand this about Walmart?


RE: Say what?
By stirfry213 on 6/11/2008 1:15:51 PM , Rating: 3
Have you been to Wal-Mart? Degenerates... and thats putting it mildly.

Of course, we only have ourselves to blame when we flock to the place that charges the least for products with no consideration as to how/why they are able to offer said products for such low prices.

Minimum wage at 40 hrs after taxes would net you about $175.50. Consider that...


RE: Say what?
By Digimonkey on 6/11/2008 2:15:24 PM , Rating: 2
They are able to sell things cheap because they buy items in vast amounts and have an efficient inventory tracking system. Also a lot of it's cheap junk from China. Honestly, they pay their employees at or a little above average than most department/grocery stores. I made $8.50 an hour there stocking shelves in my youth, and that was close to 10 years ago.


RE: Say what?
By TomZ on 6/11/2008 2:58:34 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Also a lot of it's cheap junk from China.

In my experience, they sell mostly the same stuff as every other store. Yes, a lot is imported from China, but that's true of American retail in general. Practically every retail store is just dominated by consumer goods made in China.


RE: Say what?
By Digimonkey on 6/11/2008 3:17:43 PM , Rating: 2
I do agree with your assessment of the US retail market. I mostly threw it in there because I knew it'd be brought up, but also because Wal-mart is a bit worse than other retail stores about quality of goods in certain areas.

When it comes to tools and electronics they still seem to shoot for the lowest price possible, and have no regards for the manufacturer or quality of said product. I know a lot of brand name products are manufactured in China these days, but at least they have a name they are concerned about vs some of the names I've seen on DVD players at Walmart I can't even pronounce.


RE: Say what?
By sinful on 6/11/2008 8:52:54 PM , Rating: 3
I think Wal-mart is targeted because they are the driving force behind the move to Chinese made goods.

I.e. to use an analogy, other companies are the buzzards picking at the carcass, but Wal-Mart is the wolf that brings the prey down in the first place.

That is to say, it's not that other companies don't sell chinese goods too, but only Wal-Mart has the economic force to push American goods out and Chinese goods in.
(or, at least do it at the rate that is taking place).

My $.02


RE: Say what?
By arazok on 6/11/2008 9:24:43 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I think Wal-Mart is targeted because they are the driving force behind the move to Chinese made goods.


Wrong, on both counts.

The driving force to Chinese goods is competition. Those that manufacture in China can sell the same product for less. This did not start with Wal-Mart. It began in the textile industry in the 80’s and 90’s.

Wal-Mart is a target because they are high-profile. It’s ok to be a small business owner, pulling in high five/low six figures on the back of minimum wage labour. It’s bad to be a big business owner pulling in millions on the back of minimum wage labour. Forget that fact that the combined salary of every exec at Wal-Mart is likely a fraction of the combined salary of every small business owner they displace.

...And forget the fact that millions of low income Americans have vastly increased purchasing power as a result of the same net number of minimum wage workers.


RE: Say what?
By Mitch101 on 6/11/2008 10:56:19 AM , Rating: 5
Walmart and Microsoft seem to share something in common.

For some reason people seem to think there is a cool factor in making fun of either.

Walmart to you may not hire the most intelligent of resources however I don't believe the positions you see requires a significance of intelligence to work them. Stocking shelves or cashier being the most common of those visible to consumers.

So what is the incentive to make fun of people who have a job are willing to work in a position that you yourself feel significantly superior to? The guy who cuts my grass probably isn't the most intelligent either however he works and does a good job over feeding off unemployment or welfare. If seeing so called unintelligent people working bothers you I dare wonder what a group of welfare people more than capable of working those Walmart positions must do to you.

My suggestion. Don't mock or compare yourself to anyone willing to work for a paycheck no matter what level position they might hold.


RE: Say what?
By MrBlastman on 6/11/2008 11:05:33 AM , Rating: 2
I'm not mocking the employees - I am pointing out the lackluster training that Wal-Mart gives them.

You can train even the simplest of positions in a company to be efficient, effective and helpful to the customer.


RE: Say what?
By mindless1 on 6/12/2008 6:47:20 AM , Rating: 3
No, you can't train even the simplest of positions to do this, because dealing with the general public at a Walmart would be like living in the twilight zone if you had to do it every day. I feel like I'm in another country every time I shop there, it's not white trash it's some other deviation of zombies that is a sub-class below white trash.

I can't imagine someone working there being willing to be this ideality of efficient, effective, and helpful for the peanuts they're being paid.

Have you tipped any of low paid employees at discount stores that help you or act as you think they should? The money you go there to save is coming out of their pockets, how much should they be helpful? If you shopped someplace else then other companies would better stay in business and be able to hire instead of fire more employees.

Bottom line, you can't be greedy by shopping at Walmart then demand people give service that costs more. Well you can demand it, but the zombies will get you. ;-)


RE: Say what?
By zombiexl on 6/11/2008 12:54:32 PM , Rating: 3
How true.. if it werent for the less motivated, who would flip my burgers for me?


RE: Say what?
By mindless1 on 6/12/2008 8:24:02 AM , Rating: 2
Huh? Who is less motivated, someone who works a crappy job for terrible pay and yet still does that job, or someone who works a better job with better pay? You're so totally backwards and spoiled. I gotta tell you I'd have to be more motivated than the average CEO to show up for work at a McDonalds/etc. flipping burgers, think I'd rather try my hand at tomato farming (rightabout now) if the choice were necessary.


RE: Say what?
By Hiawa23 on 6/11/2008 1:44:06 PM , Rating: 3
I am shocked at the Walmart hatred, damn near racist superior attitudes that many of the posters have against them or their employees. I have a degree in business, run a good business & I only buy groceries at Walmart cause of their prices, & I am black, & my experience at the Walmart's here in Central Florida has always been great, & you can have a bad experience anywhere at any store, I blame the individual not the whole store for those people's actions.

I get in, find what I want, & get out, hell, many of the ladies that work at their stores clearly seem to be on the lower side of the economic scale, but that is no reason to knock or bash them, hell, many of them I would consider possibly dating, as many of them seem like good people just trying to make it in this world like the rest of us, & may not have had a chance to go to college & get degrees like some of us, or who may have fallen on bad times, & this can happen to anyone.

Someone even made a comment about the stores being packed on the 1st or 15th or something when the govt checks come like it's really bad. Some people genuinely need help especially given this economy, so I have no issue at all going to the stores anytime of the month, & it's great that my people, minorities have a store that has prices on items in their budget range like Walmart does.

I think Walmart provides a great service to minorities & everyone, & if some don't see this then don't shop at their stores, cause many of us love em, & the services they provide to us. Sme of us never forget where we come from no matter how successful we have become, & all people deserve to be treated with respect no matter what their economic status is.

Some of you ought to be ashamed of yourselves labeling people or passing judgement on people like you are better or something, just cause of where they work, or how you perceive them. sure glad my parents instilled values in me of which I am trying to pass to my 10 year old...


RE: Say what?
By Icelight on 6/11/2008 2:15:44 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Some of you ought to be ashamed of yourselves labeling people or passing judgement on people like you are better or something, just cause of where they work, or how you perceive them.


I agree wholeheartedly. Too many people these days look down on others who are not as "high" as they are, and consider them to be trash. People trying to make their way in the world do not deserve that kind of treatment, that's best left to be directed towards those who really deserve it.


RE: Say what?
By FITCamaro on 6/11/2008 2:43:25 PM , Rating: 3
I've no real problem with anyone willing to work for a paycheck. What I do have a problem with though is people who think that they should be living well while working at Walmart. People who work there generally are because they choose not to get an education and thus, can't get anything better. Minimum wage is just that. The bare minimum. It's meant for teenagers and the bottom of the barrel to barely scrape by. Not raise a family of 4 on.

However at the same time, I think Walmart's benefits are atrocious. They tout that 100% of their employees have health care. 50% of that is the person's spouse's benefits. Another 25% is Medicare and Medicaid. Only 25% of that is actually Walmart's benefits. They claim they offer health insurance for only $5 a month. Well yes technically they do. But you're better off going and buying a happy meal with that $5 since the benefits are worthless.


RE: Say what?
By arazok on 6/11/2008 9:30:08 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Minimum wage is just that. The bare minimum.


But they should get maximum benefits?

What level of health coverage would these employees get working at the local variety store?


RE: Say what?
By FITCamaro on 6/12/2008 6:27:05 AM , Rating: 2
No I just think they should tell it like it is. That THEY only cover 25% of their employees. And just because you're paid low, doesn't mean the benefits have to be absolutely terrible. A company like Best Buy for full time employees actually has some pretty good benefits and they don't pay that much either.

Benefits should be worth the money you're paying for them. My mom worked for them for 2 years due to a buyout and even at her salary level($120,000), they were still terrible.


RE: Say what?
By mvpx02 on 6/11/2008 3:05:40 PM , Rating: 2
Its not a knock on the people that work at Walmart, its a knock on Walmart via its employees. I admire them for putting up with what they put up with, but every single person @ walmart below management is underpaid, undertrained, and overworked. It is a decision Walmart has made & it has worked well for them so far... but it will not work in "mainstream electronics" (I say this because I don't dare calling what BestBuy has "high end", even if I'm comparing it to Walmart or I'll inevitably be corrected by people with nothing better to do).

When I need groceries or some DVDS or a new basketball or windshield wipers (my last 4 trips to Walmart), those type of employees are just fine, but when I'm looking at spending anywhere from $500-$10,000 on electronics, I like to at least think the person I'm talking to (if I'm lucky enough to find help) isn't letting my screw myself. Again, its not a knock on the people who work at walmart, its a knock on walmart's employees.

I simply think Walmart has made too much money running things they way they run them to suddenly open a division where the training and pay competes with the other companies. Inevitably, upper management that is too near-sighted to see the potential benefit (or simply doesn't care) will ultimately either cancel the program or hamstring it until it fails (programs like this appear to be an easy place to cut large chunks out of labor budget).

This is frequently the type of end for pilot programs, even ones with good potential. The same thing happened/is happening at Best Buy with their ACE program.


RE: Say what?
By BadAcid on 6/11/2008 3:14:24 PM , Rating: 2
As a grocery store employee during my high school years, I always saw it as people took issue with Wal-Mart because they drove local small businesses and groceries down the tubes. Why is this bad? For one thing it drives money out of the local economy, entire towns have to go to the state for money in maintaining their infrastructure/roads/etc, while the Wal-Mart money just flows out.
The other primary issue is the fact that Wal-Mart employees aren't unionized like most grocery chains are. You say it provides a great service to people trying to make it in life, but the lack of unionized labor means those employees have little or no say in how their wage, benefits, hours, or workloads are managed. This can be very damaging to local communities if households don't have health insurance, job security, etc. Since people "settle" for convenience and lower prices, they're often unknowingly promoting the disintegration of basic worker rights.


RE: Say what?
By Reclaimer77 on 6/11/2008 3:26:53 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Wal-Mart because they drove local small businesses and groceries down the tubes. Why is this bad? For one thing it drives money out of the local economy, entire towns have to go to the state for money in maintaining their infrastructure/roads/etc, while the Wal-Mart money just flows out.


Anti Capitalist dogma at best.

And Unions ? I think you need to dig a little deeper and see what impact they really have on the community and business. Everything isn't sugar and spice there.

I mean I just have to ask. Are you a complete socialist or do you actually believe this shit ?


RE: Say what?
By FITCamaro on 6/11/2008 3:53:39 PM , Rating: 2
I agree with you on unions. As far as Walmart driving local businesses out of business, he was correct. That's not to say you're not also correct in saying that thats capitalism for you.

A free market is a good thing, but it can also be brutal. And doesn't always mean the best comes out on top.


RE: Say what?
By Digimonkey on 6/11/2008 4:50:12 PM , Rating: 2
A lot of places are killing local businesses these days that don't concentrate on quality, knowledgeable staff, friendliness or ease of shopping. It's foolish and naive to think a local company could compete with higher prices while offering lower or on par quality of service.

There are a few shops I go to locally. They get my money because they offer good services, upstanding return policies, or they just are very knowledgeable in what they are selling.

The statement of Walmart driving away local business and therefore hurting the local economy is an argument that always hurts my head. Walmart isn't tax exempt. Products are taxed all the same, assuming the supply for objects hasn't decreased the local economy should be fine.


RE: Say what?
By zombiexl on 6/11/2008 8:34:32 PM , Rating: 2
Actually if you look into it walmart negotiates to pay no or little taxes in each new store they open for 5, 10 or more years. Then when it comes time for the local gov to start collecting taxes they often threaten to leave if the beak isnt extended. In some cases they pickup and move one town over and get a whole new set of tax breaks.

So you could sya they are tax exempt in a way.


RE: Say what?
By Digimonkey on 6/11/2008 9:42:18 PM , Rating: 2
I've never seen a walmart move except maybe into a bigger building. Please show some facts if you are going to make allegations like these.


RE: Say what?
By Ringold on 6/12/2008 8:21:31 AM , Rating: 2
Threaten to leave?

I think I'll witness a UFO landing on the White House lawn before I witness a WalMart store saying "So long, and thanks for the all fish!" to a city. If they even threaten such a stupid thing, the city should call their bluff and tell them to get stuffed. Unless WalMart oversaturated a local market, they'll shut up and stick around.

That said, a large variety of big businesses get property tax breaks from local governments. It's a win-win; the company saves money, and by attracting the firm, the local government gets additional jobs. Those people, some of which will be high paid, generate further service-sector jobs. And all of those people? They have to live somewhere, and where ever they live, they pay property taxes, and where ever they shop locally, they pay sales taxes.


RE: Say what?
By sinful on 6/11/2008 9:10:05 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
There are a few shops I go to locally. They get my money because they offer good services, upstanding return policies, or they just are very knowledgeable in what they are selling.


But even more people go to the places with knowledgable staff to make a decision on what product to buy, and then go to Wal-Mart to make their final purchase for the lowest price...


RE: Say what?
By BadAcid on 6/11/2008 4:52:36 PM , Rating: 2
I'm actually very, very pro capitalist. I am very much against Welfare and Medicaid, but a strong supporter of Unemployment and Medicare. People who work deserve a decent life and the ability to provide a decent life to their family. People who don't work and live on hand outs and expect sympathy for making terrible life choices do not, in my opinion. Sometimes circumstances beyond your control put you out of a job or disable you from working, at which point unemployment keeps you on your feet until you find a new job. However, when not working and living on welfare becomes a choice over working non-skilled jobs, something is wrong. It's because of practices such as union dissolution that the middle class is disappearing, mostly having those people enter the lower class. I want capitalism to work, and it only works more smoothly with a solid middle class, people who are able to make decisions about their lifestyle and balance a budget accordingly than to live paycheck to paycheck shopping at Wal-Mart.


RE: Say what?
By FITCamaro on 6/11/2008 5:05:41 PM , Rating: 2
I'm sorry but the vast majority of unions are corrupt organizations. Yes they can help provide workers with higher pay and better benefits. But the issue to me is when is the pay and benefits too high? When an auto line worker is making as much or more than an engineer, there's a problem. When a train operator is making as much as an IT admin, there's a problem.

Jobs requiring a high school education at best deserve the pay of a high school education. Not $30, $35, $40 an hour because a corrupt union is in place and threatens the company with complete shutdown every year.

Yes there are some unions still doing good. The ones who help ensure competent and trained individuals get the jobs. The ones who actually make sure employees aren't abused.

Unions are a huge part of the reason that US manufacturing is near extinct. It's pretty sad that Hyundai and Toyota are better able to hire people here in the US than GM and Ford. Because they're paying people $20-25 an hour as opposed to $30-40 an hour. Same with steel mills and other heavy industry thats heavily unionized and has been for decades.


RE: Say what?
By Ringold on 6/12/2008 8:32:39 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
It's because of practices such as union dissolution that the middle class is disappearing, mostly having those people enter the lower class.


Provide facts, if you can, preferably with direct links to data from sources such as the BLS, research by the NBER or a fed bank, etc.

First of all it's rather difficult to define "middle class," as in 1950 a High School diploma could ensure a decent job. Now anything less than a 2 year technical or 4 year degree and you're stuck working at.. well.. Walmart. If you look at average salary performance of someone with a Bachelors or Masters, it ends up peaking at levels most people would define as "upper class." Those data sets would be even more impressive if they weren't weighted down by people with degrees in things like History that hammer the average down. It's just the HS Diploma folks that really are lucky if they ever get over 30k/year at this point.

Second, unions objective typically involves higher wages. By definition, this lowers the quantity of labor demanded. It's not just simple labor economic theory; Michigan's woes show that theory is pretty much right-on in the real world. You've got a small and ever dwindling number of union laborers being paid extremely high wages, and the rest of the state in ruin. Meanwhile, elsewhere in the country, foreign automakers higher large numbers of non-union labor at lower, but fair and sustainable, wages.


RE: Say what?
By callmeroy on 6/11/2008 4:24:29 PM , Rating: 2
I agree with the theme of your post overall - judging folks in general based on any status alone be it economic, race, etc. is fundamentally wrong in my book as well.

My labeling of trash -- be it white trash, black trash or toehr wise.I do however, and I don't regret have guilt or otherwise , with labeling you or anyone based on your actions. If you are rude, a slob, a bum, inconsiderate, mean-spirited, etc. I'll call it as I see it.

I know today much of our society is living in this "care bear" world - oh noes! don't offend little billy. Let's not give out letter grades that hurts esteem, lets not have a loser or winner in a sport -- EVERYONE gets a trophy...screw that.

There are winners and there are losers. There is right and there is wrong. There is good and there is bad...its life folks...wake up to it.

Finally, again -- walmart isn't a rosey beautiful angelic company a lot of folks paint it to be. They have a lot of shady history to them if you ever bothered to research it.

So that's pretty much it on how I roll with that...good for walmart being successful but to hell with them and their unethical history, good for you saving money their but I mostly see TRASHY folks there that I run into.

Don't like it , I don't care....doesn't change my morals or believes one iota.


RE: Say what?
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 6/11/2008 9:31:45 AM , Rating: 1
You may think that they don't compete, but Circuit City's poor performance and the demise of CompUSA has been partly blamed on Wal-Mart.


RE: Say what?
By Mitch101 on 6/11/2008 9:44:26 AM , Rating: 2
I agree and will add places like NewEgg/overtock/buy.com and the reduced cost of shipping todays LCD/Plasma panels compared with yesterdays bulky heavy CRT based units. This reduced weight of todays big screen HDTV's makes every online retailer a competitor to brick and mortar.

As for Walmart getting into this. I can see it being successful if they use their Free shipping to your local Walmart store method. Instead of each store carrying inventory of high end electronic units in stock they let your order high end brand names online and have it shipped to your local store at no extra cost. They do this already for a lot of items and I could see it working very well for them if they follow this method.


RE: Say what?
By imaheadcase on 6/11/2008 10:16:51 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
You may think that they don't compete, but Circuit City's poor performance and the demise of CompUSA has been partly blamed on Wal-Mart.


Sigh, once again they don't even compete with them. Wal-mart vs Target is the closest thing to compare to. You don't use the words compete against 2 different items.


RE: Say what?
By Reclaimer77 on 6/11/2008 3:15:46 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Sigh, once again they don't even compete with them.


I think you would be surprised. There were several times where I went to WalMart for something small when I could have went to CompUsa and spent %56 more on the same item.

Even things like USB cables were horribly overpriced at CompUSA. Good riddance, the bloodsuckers. The world is better off without them.

Same with Circuit City. Assuming the same item is in both locations, why would you EVER go there when you could go to WalMart and save money ?


RE: Say what?
By AntiM on 6/11/2008 11:17:29 AM , Rating: 2
Best Buy and Walmart do not compete in the same market ... YET. Maybe he's implying that Walmart will start selling more computer components such as hard drives, motherboards, cases, video cards... who knows? I see fewer and fewer computer components on the shelves every time I walk into a Best Buy. The ones they do have are grossly overpriced compared to online vendors. It wouldn't take much for Walmart to compete with Best Buy when it comes to computers and peripherals. Having a service department wouldn't be such a big step from there. So, if you think about it, it isn't so far fetched.


RE: Say what?
By Reclaimer77 on 6/11/2008 3:20:13 PM , Rating: 2
This is exactly what I'm hoping. I don't need a service department. But a better equipped PC electronics section ? Oh yes, that would be nice.

The WalMart where I used to shop started with a snack isle, then a year later became a Super Wal Mart with a full blown grocery store. I expect the same to happen with PC items once this gets underway.


RE: Say what?
By VoodooChicken on 6/11/2008 11:29:42 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
...at least in my state I have yet to even see a Best Buy near a wal-mart.


If I stood on the roof of our Best Buy, on a GREAT day I might be able to hit the Wal-Mart with a rock. Fry's is literally across the street from BB, and Home Depot and Sam's Club bookend the area. All that's missing is a Circuit City, but I hardly shop there.


Because when I think electronics repair
By FITCamaro on 6/11/2008 10:10:11 AM , Rating: 2
I think Walmart. When I think about "who is the most capable people to repair electronics devices for someone I know", I think Walmart.

Now when I think "Who employs the people who can't get a job anywhere else and I don't trust with a toaster around a glass of water", I definitely think Walmart.




RE: Because when I think electronics repair
By nycromes on 6/11/2008 11:52:21 AM , Rating: 2
There are alot of assumptions being made about who is going to be doing the service. If Wal-mart would pick random employees then I would have to agree with you. If not, then we don't really know what their service will be like.

Personally, as an IT person... I am hesitant to recommend the Geek squad/Firedog services as I don't find that they do a great job. Some of their employees know what they are doing, but many are just not that qualified (IMHO) to be mucking around in computers. I don't think any service Wal-mart would put out will be inferior to what is currently available from other big stores.


RE: Because when I think electronics repair
By Gatt on 6/11/2008 1:50:55 PM , Rating: 2
Funny that you mention that.

My Aunt called me the other day because one of those two teams sent someone out to help her configure her new desktop.

First sign of trouble: He freaked when she asked him to help transfer her 4gigs of video/photos she'd been working on converting from physical to digital. "I can't do that! It'll take 4 hours! We only do up to 10 megs and no more!" Um, burn it on a DVD and then copy it to the new drive, maybe 45 minutes of work.

The insanity: Your wireless is unsecured and needs secured(Right call). Because, get this, teenagers are walking around your neighborhood with Cell Phones looking for open network connections they can use to get into trouble! Cell Phones. Right. You can definitely hack the DoD with a Cell Phone.

Followed shortly by...(This one's a real winner!)

Your husband surfs the internet, you can't let him do that on your computer. You'll get viruses. No, you can't buy him a laptop and let him connect to your router! [i]The viruses will jump between the computers! And the teenagers cell phones will let viruses jump to your computer! Myspace webpages will give you viruses too![/i]

Ended with...

No! Your router with a hardware firewall doesn't protect you from anything! You'll still get viruses from the internet!

I really wish these places would require some level of understanding of computers. And maybe Psychological profiling...


RE: Because when I think electronics repair
By Digimonkey on 6/11/2008 2:42:51 PM , Rating: 2
I'm in no way defending the quality of services provided by firedog or the geek squad. I've heard plenty of horror stories about the squad, but the examples you gave don't really indicate an inept tech.

First sign: Techs lie when they want to try to get out of doing something. He's probably just lazy and doesn't want to do the menial task of transferring files, but not inept.

The insanity: You do need to make sure your wireless is secured. I believe he meant hackers go around with cell phones, or any hand held portable device and scan the neighborhood for openings this way. No, they aren't going to hack you from their phone...they can bring a laptop and sit in a car later. Even in todays society, someone walking down the street typing on a laptop would raise eyebrows...phone or psp, not so much.

Most husbands are probably the number one cause of viruses. They are usually so sexually deprived by their wives the first thing they want to do when on the net is look at porn. This involves always going the website route where they will almost surely pick up adware, trojans, porn dialers etc..

The hardware firewalls built into home routers are pretty laughable. They really don't make your average home computers secure. You should have a firewall and AV program installed on all your computers that are connected to the net.


RE: Because when I think electronics repair
By Gatt on 6/11/2008 7:04:28 PM , Rating: 2
In response...

First let me say, that's why I commented that he made the right call on securing the router, for the wrong reasons, but the right call.

Husbands aren't the number 1 cause, teenagers are. Adware isn't a virus, though it's still troublesome. I'm not certain, but I think Trojans require an .exe file, and Porn Dialers? Not exactly a major issue when there's no phone modem on the computer, which wouldn't exist on a system that's etherneted to a router...

As far as Hardware firewalls go? I'm no security expert, but I've run behind a hardware firewall for around 10 years now, and never had a software firewall or a anti-virus program loaded into memory, and my monthly scans in 10 years have turned up exactly 1 virus, No worms, no backdoors, just a single trojan in 10 years.


RE: Because when I think electronics repair
By Reclaimer77 on 6/11/2008 7:19:11 PM , Rating: 2
Anyone who values a software firewall over a hardware firewall/router doesn't know what hes talking about.


By Digimonkey on 6/11/2008 7:43:33 PM , Rating: 2
That was in regard to a home router firewall. They are no where near on par with some of the software firewalls for windows. Now I'd prefer a cisco pix or sonicwall over running a firewall my machine from internet traffic, but I would still retain a software firewall for any possible internal intrusion attempts.


By Digimonkey on 6/11/2008 7:58:28 PM , Rating: 2
Why was it for the wrong reason? You don't want other people using the wireless router without your knowledge. That's what he was implying.

The husband thing was a joke. It's well known however porn sites, at least shady ones, sometimes have you install 3rd party apps/plugins which can have a trojan, virus, adware. I worked at a computer shop for over 3 years. It was pretty easy to trace back through the history/cookies of the browsers and start to see trends.

I'll take your word for only getting 1 virus for 10 years, but simply put, firewalls don't stop users from downloading viruses to your computer. They also don't have to just be exe's. They can be .bat files, .com files, macros, java, or active X plugins...anything that can execute functions can be a virus.


RE: Because when I think electronics repair
By ancient46 on 6/11/2008 12:31:12 PM , Rating: 2
Well as the years go by you might just have to re-think your "oh so superior" opinion. More and more seniors with 30 to 50 years of experience in the electronics, electrical and IT fields are going to be supplementing their income and reducing boredom by working part time. We understand the difference in sales policies of the companies in electronics sales and will be looking at companies like Wal-Mart rather than the ones you would prefer.

I eagerly took an early retirement package when my employer was bought by a competitor and actually missed the personal interactions I had while working. So when Wal-Mart opened a store near me I took a job there. For years people trusted me to wire their buildings, install their network infrastructure, repair their machinery, and upgrade their systems. If they do develop a repair team I will probably switch from electronics to it.

Now who do you want to handle the repairs to your appliance or electronics equipment? Some school kid graduate of the Geek Squad training program or someone with years of experience and success in repairing multi-million dollar machines in a business environment?


By zombiexl on 6/11/2008 12:57:56 PM , Rating: 2
I'm going to go out on a limb and say you are probably the exception to the rule.


RE: Because when I think electronics repair
By FITCamaro on 6/11/2008 2:38:42 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Now who do you want to handle the repairs to your appliance or electronics equipment? Some school kid graduate of the Geek Squad training program or someone with years of experience and success in repairing multi-million dollar machines in a business environment?


My PCs I'll repair myself. My appliances I'll hire a licensed and insured professional repairman to do the job. And it certainly won't be through Walmart. Geek Squad/Firedog employees are just as unqualified as a potential Walmart service in my mind. Their attitude is that a Microsoft certification means you're a genius.

Yes I understand some older people work there to escape boredom. My mom was an employee of Walmart for 2 years as a regional pharmacy manager making over $100,000 a year. But you know what? We still hate Walmart. From the largely lazy people who work there to the corporate policies of the company. Both me and my parents try to avoid the stores at all costs.

I have a Walmart 2 minutes from me but I drive 10 minutes to Publix instead for my groceries. The prices might be slightly higher, but I sleep at night knowing I didn't contribute to the Walmart mentality of price is king and screw everything else. The idea of them offering a PC and electronics repair service is laughable to me. I'm sure individuals like yourself who have intelligence might get hired by them. But personally I don't see how you stand the Walmart mentality.

Heck I used to work at Best Buy in the PC department. Tech geeks generally consider Best Buy employees to lack any kind of knowledge but I don't get offended when they say all Best Buy employees are idiots. I know it to largely be true because most of the guys who I worked with, while being good salesmen, didn't know shit about PCs. They knew what the marketing information told them and simple things like what RAM is.


RE: Because when I think electronics repair
By Reclaimer77 on 6/11/2008 3:09:03 PM , Rating: 2
I thought you were one of the DT champions for conservatism and capitalism ? I'm honestly confused about your views on WalMart. A company that is about as capitalistic as you can get. And refusing to cave into mob protection, oops I meant Union's, certainly gets them a conservatism vote.

I'm just confused.


RE: Because when I think electronics repair
By FITCamaro on 6/11/2008 4:06:44 PM , Rating: 2
Yes I love capitalism and I certainly hate most unions(UAW in particular). But I also like quality products. Walmart never has and never will have them.

I do not like the attitude that only price matters. That it doesn't matter how poor quality it is, as long as its cheap. I also do not like the Walmart policy of the customer is ALWAYS right. My mom witnessed them give refunds to people for prescription medications because the person said it wasn't right AFTER they'd already used the pills.

I am a capitalist. But I am also an American. And I don't care what the commercials say, Walmart does no good for our country.


RE: Because when I think electronics repair
By Reclaimer77 on 6/11/2008 4:18:17 PM , Rating: 2
I would certainly like to know how WalMart has negatively impacted our country and/or economy.

I think the last thing I bought at WalMart was a large cutting board for my kitchen. Now, maybe I'm just ignorant about cutting board quality. But its a big hunk of wood with a mineral oil finish for me to cut crap on. Would going to a higher quality kitchen specialty shop have benefited me more ? I don't know. The one I have seems to do a pretty good job of staying between the crap I'm cutting and my knife.

Their CD's, DVD, and Pc/Console games are the exact same ones you would get at Best Buy. I'm not sure where quality comes into play here either.

But look I'm not trying to start a fight here. Those are your opinions and thanks for answering my question.


RE: Because when I think electronics repair
By Reclaimer77 on 6/11/2008 4:20:42 PM , Rating: 2
p.s. All their food and groceries are the same brands you find in other overpriced grocery stores as well.

Except their " Sams Choice " brand. Which is cheaper but tastes just as good as the " real " stuff :D


By FITCamaro on 6/11/2008 5:10:07 PM , Rating: 1
Yes certain things are the same as elsewhere. But anywhere they're able to negotiate with a manufacturer for a cheaper version, they do. Their meat and poultry is much lower quality. They don't even sell the same chicken and beef in Walmart as they do Sams because Sams club is for businesses and those customers expect higher quality.


By zombiexl on 6/11/2008 8:41:44 PM , Rating: 2
Actually their CD's are not the same. They are the edited version. Also their prices on things i buy are about 3 cents an item cheaper. For the time i spend in line in the store its cheaper for me to shop elsewhere since my time is worth money.

Too many people forget that time has a value. For example I pay someone to cut my grass, becuase its cheaper for me to pay them to do it than to buy all the crap and spend the time to do it myself.


By teckytech9 on 6/12/2008 1:43:16 AM , Rating: 2
I agree that your experience and qualifications would be a great fit for this new Wal-Mart service department. What is interesting to note is that many people are in the same boat. Employee buyouts and outsourcing of jobs is just what Ross Perot predicted several years back.

Clearly, when we have college graduates working in coffee shops across America, its nice to see experienced folks working at your local Wal-Mart.


By Screwballl on 6/12/2008 12:07:22 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
More and more seniors with 30 to 50 years of experience in the electronics, electrical and IT fields are going to be supplementing their income and reducing boredom by working part time.


Ok you are the exception to this rule. any senior with 30+ years experience in any technological field was likely dealing with punch cards and maybe some token ring networking. Modern day computers and hardware and networking is nowhere near the same as making your own circuit boards.

I am hoping to get a small business loan soon so I can open my own local shop. The local BB and CC and other places hire dumb kids right out of school and likely don't know the difference between DDR2 and 3 except, "3 is newer". I worked for the main local repair shop and was fired for doing things properly. He would rather we go through and fix every single problem or replace the memory at more cost to the customer than spend 10 minutes when the customer asked to buy an external drive and hook it up.


I never understood Wal-Mart bashers
By Reclaimer77 on 6/11/2008 3:00:34 PM , Rating: 2
You know I'm sorry if this is stereotyping, but I can't help but think a lot of you Wal-Mart bashers are just kids living at home with your parents.

I love Wal-Mart. They are convenient. They have a huge selection which saves me from having to drive to ten different specialty stores to find what I need. And they save me more money by keeping the costs low, mostly due to the fact that they have a non union labor base. Which is a damn good thing in my opinion.

Also their sales aren't dependent upon me having one of those stupid shopper cards like Bi-Low, Food Lion, Harris Teeter, Bloom, etc etc etc. You get a low price, period, no strings.

I think this is a great news. Because like many people, I don't live near a Fry's Electronics. I have to mail order everything. This is just exciting news and you haters can honestly just go suck it. Your not paying my bills so I could really care less about your issues with where I shop. Do us all a favor and grow up and enter the real world, where your bottom line means a hell of a lot more than some silly prejudices.




RE: I never understood Wal-Mart bashers
By Digimonkey on 6/11/2008 3:34:48 PM , Rating: 2
Unfortunately a lot of people I work with are the same way and they are in their 30-40's. They can't stand Wal-Mart, but can never give good reasons why they have a dislike for them. It's a very illogical, but trendy thing to do these days.

Wal-Mart is one of the top corporations when it comes to charity works, and they donate a lot of money to wildlife funds. You may say it's a big PR stunt, but in the end does it matter? They give hundreds of millions to good causes and provide a place where the not so well to do people who are struggling to raise families a place where they can get affordable groceries and medicine.


RE: I never understood Wal-Mart bashers
By FITCamaro on 6/11/2008 4:09:43 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Wal-Mart is one of the top corporations when it comes to charity works, and they donate a lot of money to wildlife funds.


A lot of their "donations" comes from charging employees to dress down on Fridays.


RE: I never understood Wal-Mart bashers
By Digimonkey on 6/11/2008 4:19:45 PM , Rating: 2
Even if that's the case, which you'd probably be hard pressed to prove if this is counted in the corporations donations or if it's separate. Employees don't have to donate.


RE: I never understood Wal-Mart bashers
By zombiexl on 6/11/2008 8:45:24 PM , Rating: 2
Actually managers are forced to donate a certain amount. This information came to me from a walmart store manager. Honestly I could care less, but just thought you should know what you are arguing.


By Digimonkey on 6/11/2008 9:40:36 PM , Rating: 2
10 years ago, this was not the case. Things could have changed however, I won't pretend to be current with the latest Walmart antics, but it seems to me this would be illegal. Logically I'd think that managers could take this to court, unless they are bond by some contract they signed which stated this stipulation that they must donate a portion of their check.


By Reclaimer77 on 6/11/2008 4:33:05 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Wal-Mart is one of the top corporations when it comes to charity works, and they donate a lot of money to wildlife funds. You may say it's a big PR stunt, but in the end does it matter? They give hundreds of millions to good causes and provide a place where the not so well to do people who are struggling to raise families a place where they can get affordable groceries and medicine.


True.

But hell they could burn down rain forests and mustard gas villages of small children for all I care. I don't shop there because they are generous or nice.

Everyone on the internet is just so indignant about stupid stuff sometimes. Its just a store. I don't get what the big problem is.


Thread is funny
By The0ne on 6/11/2008 1:49:41 PM , Rating: 2
It's funny to see shoppers of Wal-Mart criticize others so rudely and cruelly. It's as if they are immune to what they have just said. This takes the cake imo. And some comments are made, assuming, without the realization of what some of the things Wal-Mart does as a business. The bad things of course. And I bet anything, most of you who had shopped and criticized will still be shopping there. If you really really hate Best Buy and/or Wal-Mart, you only need to make a final decision not to shop there.




RE: Thread is funny
By FITCamaro on 6/11/2008 2:45:26 PM , Rating: 2
Another good point. I see tons of people criticize Walmart in the morning. But by the afternoon they're there buying the cheap crap just like everyone else.


What does this mean, exactly?
By iFX on 6/11/2008 3:11:05 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
In addition to expanding into Asian presence