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Software Vista Scores Big on the Internet
Brandon Hill (Blog) - June 11, 2006 7:50 PM
Print 63 comment(s) - last by lryman2000.. on Aug 30 at 2:12 AM
Vista becomes largest downloading event ever

Everyone knew the public release of Windows Vista Beta 2 was going to be a rather big event for Microsoft. Not only could it give customers a chance to try out its latest operating system, but it would also get feedback/commentary from the millions of consumers using Vista before its Q1 07 retail launch.

According to Microsoft, its public launch of Vista Beta 2 has gone well beyond expectations and is labeled as the "Biggest software download event in history." Microsoft claims that if they served bits any faster, they'd risk the possibility of bringing the Internet to its knees. Microsoft also states that they looked into BiTorrent as a possible delivery system, but decided against it. Longhorn Blogs reports:

Q: What about BitTorrent?

A: We thought about Bit Torrent a lot, especially in the planning stages for this. There are legal and privacy issues which unfortunately make that not an option for Microsof to officially sponsor a BitTorrent. I really wish we could do it, but we can't. If someone BitTorrent's we can't guarantee that they've got an unaltered copy, etc.

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I'm Not Impressed
By ohnnyj on 6/11/2006 8:24:32 PM , Rating: 5
The first thing that came to my mind after getting Vista to install was, I'm not impressed.

Simply trying to install was a pain. I had to unconnect my three other hard drives in order for it to install as for some reason it wanted to install a boot loader on one of the other drives and would generate an error.

For starters the provided nVidia display drivers would not run Aero smoothly so I had to search on the net to discover that the older 87.45 would work better. So I installed those and it worked fine. However, now I cannot get my 24" widescreen to go beyond 1600x1200 even though I am happily typing away here on the same monitor in XP at 1920x1200.

So after getting the graphics to somewhat work I went on to try to get my Audigy 4 card to play sound. I installed the betas from Creative and now I have choppy sound. But I thought maybe it was just crappy Creative drivers (hard to believe I know) so I switched to onboard audio. Still have pops and pauses.

The UI is ok with some nice transitions but I was hopping for more consistency and less glitches. For instance, whenever the user access prompts come up the screen blacks out and changes changes resolution. Why couldn't they make a nice smooth transition as the background fades out? The rollodex feature seams like a gimmic to me, a poor ripoff of the OSX expose features (which are far better). I wish Microsoft simply copied those features directly as they are much more intuitive and easier to get to the programs you want.

What happened to native RAW support? Guess we have to wait until the product ships, or they simply remove the feature like they have so many others.

Now I know they have done numerous tweaks under the hood (well I don't know but I guess I will have to take their word for it) but if they have only 7 or 8 months to finish this product they have a long way to go. And who knows how much this "Ultimate" edition is going to cost.

Then you have the fact that Microsoft stated they would release the Aero effects for XP which makes the Vista upgrade even less enticing.

Sorry for the rant but I was all hyped up to try Vista out but after so many problems trying to get it to run correctly I am a bit disenchanted. Prove me wrong Microsoft and I will happily make the purchase next year.




RE: I'm Not Impressed
By ZeeStorm on 6/11/2006 8:48:45 PM , Rating: 1
I'm not impressed to have aero effects at all. I haven't used the standard MS theme in forever. Good ol' "hacked" .theme files. I'm only interested in speed. But with all these fancy effects, this is just going to make windows suck more than it already does.


RE: I'm Not Impressed
By fungry on 6/11/2006 11:04:51 PM , Rating: 2
haha it will. dramatically slow your system down. But hey! who said you have to use the aero effects. Users are allowed to change back to the windows classic form :). Even though i use XP, i despise its theme and hence use the classic to save some worthless memory.


RE: I'm Not Impressed
By johnsonx on 6/11/2006 8:54:30 PM , Rating: 2
I had some of the same sorts troubles. Installed fine (albeit VERY slowly) on my Dell notebook using an alternate hard drive. Very odd though with the wireless adapter - it detect the Dell wireless adapter as some sort of Broadcom device, and it *seems* to work. The only thing is it can't see my own wireless network, but it does see others in the area (nothing whatsoever would allow me to connect to my WLAN). So I took it to my office, where I have a completely different wireless network - different brand of router/AP, different ssid, different channel, different encryption, etc. It couldn't see my wireless network there either, yet again it could see others in the area.

My notebook uses the 915GML on-board graphics, which I thought was supposed to be DX9 capable. But I don't get the option of the Aero-Glass interface, so either 915GML isn't capable, or the included driver can't do it yet.

Vista sure is pretty compared to XP, even with the Vista Basic interface, but beyond that I don't see the big deal. I guess the same could be said about XP vs 2000, but the true big deal of XP was the final unification of the home and business code base. I don't see anything similarly compelling in Vista to make upgrading worthwhile. Sure, new computers will come with Vista, but I can't see doing any major upgrades of XP machines.

On my home desktop, it refused to install, saying it could find a system drive that met it's requirements. It actually correctly loaded drivers for my onboard SiS-964 raid mirror pair, which was a big surprise to me. But even though it saw the 9Gb empty partition on the mirror pair, it refused to install there, and also wouldn't install on a 160Gb NTFS drive that had 10Gb free. It didn't complain about free space on either partition, it just said it couldn't find a system drive that met it's requirements. Maybe it was choking on the GRUB boot loader.

Oh well, on my other drive I have SUSE 10.1 working better than ever, so I think I'll turn my attention to that for awhile (from which I am typing this).



RE: I'm Not Impressed
By peternelson on 6/12/2006 8:47:55 AM , Rating: 2

Does anyone know, can you install the vista beta, then install suse 10.1 on the same hard drive as you can with XP?
(ideally have you tried it?)


RE: I'm Not Impressed
By johnsonx on 6/12/2006 2:39:17 PM , Rating: 2
no, I haven't tried it. However I think that if you install Vista first, and all's well, SUSE 10.1 should go on without a problem. GRUB should have no problem booting Vista. My theory about the Vista installer choking on GRUB shouldn't matter after-the-fact.

I would suggest installing Vista on only part of the drive though rather than letting the SUSE installer resize the partition for you (it can do that right?). Who knows if Vista has introduced minor changes in NTFS that may foul-up the SUSE partition resizer.



RE: I'm Not Impressed
By AnotherGuy on 6/12/2006 11:58:26 AM , Rating: 2
U need 15GB of free space to be able to install Vista... hence it gave u that error...


RE: I'm Not Impressed
By johnsonx on 6/12/2006 2:35:17 PM , Rating: 2
That may be, but that's not what it said. When I tried selecting another NTFS drive that only had a couple of Gb free, it immediately said 'You need at least 6717Mb free to install Vista' or something very close to that. It didn't complain at all when I selected either of the other two partitions, it only gave the 'can't find system drive that meets requirements' error after I picked the partition and then clicked 'Next'. That's why I'm presuming it was choking on GRUB; it saw the boot device had GRUB on it, and decided it didn't want to mess with it.


RE: I'm Not Impressed
By kibets on 6/11/2006 8:57:05 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Aero effects for XP


Really... I had no idea. I may just update my existing PC with Aero XP and get a new one in January with Vista pre-installed.

In the 6-7 months until release a lot of hardware improvements will surface which will entice users to ditch their old PC's and get a new one with Vista (i hope).


RE: I'm Not Impressed
By OddTSi on 6/11/2006 8:57:26 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Then you have the fact that Microsoft stated they would release the Aero effects for XP which makes the Vista upgrade even less enticing.

They will not be releasing the Aero interface for XP. You must've misunderstood something.


RE: I'm Not Impressed
By hondaman on 6/12/2006 2:07:28 AM , Rating: 2
A company released a skin/theme of sorts for XP which comes close to the aero interface of vista. I'm pretty sure thats what hes talking about.


RE: I'm Not Impressed
By TomZ on 6/12/2006 2:45:54 PM , Rating: 2
Windows XP themes do not have enough capability to be able to make an Aero, e.g., animation, transparency, etc. So all you can get in XP is just the static look and feel, i.e., icons, colors, bitmaps, of Aero. I think this should be obvious based on the video hardware requirements for Aero.


RE: I'm Not Impressed
By sxr7171 on 6/11/2006 9:25:50 PM , Rating: 2
"I thought maybe it was just crappy Creative drivers (hard to believe I know)"

You meant that sarcastically right?


RE: I'm Not Impressed
By ohnnyj on 6/11/2006 11:21:18 PM , Rating: 2
of course


Beta
By cciesquare on 6/11/2006 8:42:47 PM , Rating: 3
Remember that even though there is a number 2, it is still beta, and for all we know this thing can be that way for a long time.

Installing it, i had no problems, it actually did everything on its own. Of course after installing the OS came the fun part, by fun I mean pain in the ass driver installations. Vista installed all th simple drivers, like network cards, modem, etc. but for the video card it sucked, of course, so i had to download it, most of the devices that I had the manufacterers did not have updated vista drivers so most of them didnot work, ie tuner card, soundblaster card(had to donwload third party).

Overall i really like the look and feel of Vista. I was impressed with Flip3D but i guess its jsut one of those things that is cool because its new, but nevertheless it was awesome seeing it for the first time.

In my opinion so far so good. If microsoft can solve all the driver issues it would be smooth sailing. I really like the interface so far, and the overall organization.




RE: Beta
By cciesquare on 6/11/2006 8:47:08 PM , Rating: 2
Oh I forgot to add, Vista is heavy. The computer i installed it on had P4 2.8GHz with a Nvidia 6800 Ultra, and 2GB of memory, even then it felt slugish. Only after disabling many graphics features did it feel smooth and light.

I tried installing this sucker on another computer that had ok parts, and it was not a good idea. Vista was pretty much slow as a turtle and not very pleasing.


RE: Beta
By griffynz on 6/11/2006 8:50:18 PM , Rating: 3
sounds like the early days of XP, remember reverting back to 98se until good drivers came out. Its just natural progression though, looking forward to the actual release (when the hardware suppliers will have to release working drivers etc)


RE: Beta
By Heatlesssun on 6/11/2006 9:19:09 PM , Rating: 2
Actually, on my hardware, a Athlon 64 3400+ 1.5GB of RAM with an nVidia 6800GT, it runs fine, at least when not playing 3D games. I've tried F.E.A.R. and Hitman BloodMoney and while they ran, they performed badly, but this is probably more of a driver issue.

On my drive has 60GB used, but that's pretty much eveything installed with the Ultimate edition, and Visual Studio 2005 and SQL Server 2005 and a few games, so really by todays standards, HD space is no issue.

The media stuff works pretty well. Got Media Center working win a WinTV tuner and it was tru plug and play, drivers included with Vista.


RE: Beta
By tuteja1986 on 6/11/2006 11:16:52 PM , Rating: 2
I installed it on spare computer : P4 2.8Ghz , 1GB DDR 3200 , HIS 9600XT . It worked fine and i liked vista but for now i will still use windows xp.


RE: Beta
By GreenEnvt on 6/12/2006 9:28:23 AM , Rating: 2
Beta 2 runs pretty smoothly for me,
Athlon64 3700+(939), 2gb ddr400, 2x200gb sata, ATI X800 GT 256MB, Asus A8N-E.


Use bittorrent
By peternelson on 6/12/2006 8:43:20 AM , Rating: 2
The Microsoft Idiot said:

"If someone BitTorrent's we can't guarantee that they've got an unaltered copy, etc."

Have you noobs heard of an MD5 CHECKSUM then?

Distribute it on bittorrent and use MD5 to confirm the binary is uncorrupted.

If you're paranoid why not have a very small downloadable installer from microsoft that does the MD5 verification?

By not using bittorrent MS is wasting everyone's time, and financially penalising all ISPs outside the USA.




RE: Use bittorrent
By TomZ on 6/12/2006 9:58:21 AM , Rating: 2
I agree, Microsoft's argument to not use a bittorrent seem a little contrived to me. They must have some other (possibly very valid) reasons for doing that, such as to be able to track the number and geographic locations of downloads for marketing purposes.


RE: Use bittorrent
By rrsurfer1 on 6/12/2006 10:12:10 AM , Rating: 2
I was just going to say that myself. I beleive, not 100% sure though, that most MS installers already do some type of CRC check. Using a MD5 checksum would not be difficult in the least for them to add. This would assure that users have a legitimate copy. I think MS's excuse is lame.


RE: Use bittorrent
By Myrandex on 6/12/2006 10:43:07 AM , Rating: 2
I was glad that they didn't bittorrent it as my school blocks torrent connections over the lan and so I didnt' have to go through any hassle of finding a hackaround to get it to download, and the other day my x64 Vista downloaded just fine in a couple of hours.
Jason


RE: Use bittorrent
By Nekrik on 6/12/2006 2:22:44 PM , Rating: 2
I think the bigger concern for them is the 'legal' problems, which he mentioned first.


RE: Use bittorrent
By PrinceGaz on 6/12/2006 2:25:04 PM , Rating: 2
Anyone who wanted Vista beta 2 could get it without penalising their ISP at all, and at a much faster download speed than from Microsoft, provided their ISP has a decent binary news-server.

Unfortunately most ISPs can't be bothered to maintain a usable binary news-server so it is their fault that we resort to downloading it from other places. The ISP I'm with does actually have a good news-server completion wise, though not so good retention (3-4 days) but that is still long enough to get most releases such as Vista beta 2. It doesn't cost the ISP a single penny when its users download from their own server, and it's also a much faster download than any Torrent or a download from Microsoft.


Amazing
By saratoga on 6/11/2006 8:42:35 PM , Rating: 2
The sheer interest Vista is generating even at teh beta stage is ridiculous. I remember the XP Betas. People were not this interested. Hell I remember the XP launch. People still weren't interested.




RE: Amazing
By Heatlesssun on 6/11/2006 9:05:54 PM , Rating: 3
If you remeber when XP was launched, right after 9/11, there was not much intrest in anything at that time.


RE: Amazing
By peternelson on 6/12/2006 8:50:16 AM , Rating: 2

The penetration of PC computers into the population is greater now.

ie there are more pcs and more people with pcs. So the potential upgrade market for vista is larger.

That does not imply people are MORE interested in Vista than they were at xp time, but that there are MORE of them.


RE: Amazing
By peternelson on 6/12/2006 8:53:55 AM , Rating: 2

Also, people may be sceptical about MS plans to release in January. This is a way they can get a (mostly) working OS now to last the next 6 months ish, or even until June 2007 maybe.

By the time it expires and they have to buy, Vista will have been shipped and they can evaluate if it is worth it or not, and how many companies wrote vista drivers by that time. They can then decide to buy vista, keep XP, or switch to linux.


RE: Amazing
By PrinceGaz on 6/12/2006 2:11:38 PM , Rating: 2
Not so many people had broadband back in 2001. Those of us that did often downloaded Whistler betas.


Q: What about BitTorrent?
By JarredWalton on 6/11/2006 8:49:43 PM , Rating: 2
Of course MS won't create a torrent... but that doesn't mean others won't. :)




RE: Q: What about BitTorrent?
By Heatlesssun on 6/11/2006 9:19:55 PM , Rating: 2
Sure they won't becuase people do it for them as you already suggested.


RE: Q: What about BitTorrent?
By Garreye on 6/11/2006 9:21:49 PM , Rating: 2
I download a copy of vista beta 2 a week before it was publicly avalailable and i just activated it with a key from MS once it was released.


RE: Q: What about BitTorrent?
By Garreye on 6/11/2006 9:22:11 PM , Rating: 2
dowloaded*


RE: Q: What about BitTorrent?
By Garreye on 6/11/2006 9:22:35 PM , Rating: 3
haha my typing is awesome today...downloaded**


Can't guarantee not to get an unaltered copy?
By xdrol on 6/12/2006 3:50:12 AM , Rating: 2
Thats strange, Blizzard can guarantee it with WoW patches..




By Hare on 6/12/2006 4:38:00 AM , Rating: 2
Semantics. MS Simply doesn't recommend getting the torrents.


By mindless1 on 6/12/2006 5:06:54 AM , Rating: 2
It's what is commonly called a lie. They provide the torrent and there you are. Just don't get it anywhere but from MS' and you had the same expectation as the d/l itself.


By BladeVenom on 6/12/2006 9:01:33 AM , Rating: 2
Torrents contain a hash algorith that makes sure what you download is correct. As long as you get the torrent file from the file's creator you will get an unaltered copy.

They could also offer an MD5 file so you could double check, or for those who get their torrent file somewhere else.

So are the people at Microsoft idiots or liars?


By Shivian on 6/13/2006 8:57:27 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
So are the people at Microsoft idiots or liars?

Both?


Can it do this??
By Cunthor01 on 6/12/2006 12:45:26 AM , Rating: 2
Can I install Vista on my slave drive without wiping off XP on the primary drive? Really want to give this beta a go.




RE: Can it do this??
By kristof007 on 6/12/2006 1:31:14 AM , Rating: 2
I don't think it would like that. You'd have to unhook your primary drive and make your slave a master drive and install Vista like that. Then you could prolly plug u're main drive back as a slave. Not too sure. That's what I've understand from that Vista download page.


RE: Can it do this??
By Griswold on 6/12/2006 4:10:15 AM , Rating: 2
You can install vista on any partition or drive, whether its a primary or not. It will simply install a bootloader for you to pick which OS you want to boot from.

I suggest you google for a complete guide to install vista besides XP to avoid any problems, as there may be some pitfalls - its a beta after all.


RE: Can it do this??
By lryman2000 on 8/30/2006 2:12:43 AM , Rating: 2
Yes you can. just read and carefully choose the proper options when installing vista.


By rushfan2006 on 6/12/2006 12:45:37 PM , Rating: 2
...like more features taken out....lol....just kidding...(I hope anyway).

But for real keep in mind it is a Beta product, in the real sense of Beta, not the Google sense.

I also find it absolutely hilarious how much people fawn over a "pretty looking" os. Who cares about fancy graphic effects, I can't believe that any true PC enthusiast would get upset over how purdy their OS looked.

Give me usability and performance! You know what needs to look purdy -- GAMES!

Nuff said.




By INeedCache on 6/12/2006 1:35:55 PM , Rating: 2
Just a reminder, most people who are using PCs are not true enthusiasts. They see it for what it ultimately is, a tool to get other things done, not the end all. I'm on your side with usability and performance, but I don't mind a little effort being spent on making things "look pretty". After all, would you really rather be using a Windows 3.1 interface or an XP? Most, including me, would choose the XP. But your reminder that it is really a true beta, is one that needs to sink in. People should not expect this to be simply a pre-launch look at the final product.


By mindless1 on 6/13/2006 8:30:29 AM , Rating: 2
Unfortunately, looking pretty usually boils down to more gradients (worse for high res. detail perception) and more open space (less efficient use of screen real-estate).

I like pretty things as much as the next guy but there is something to be said for the utility of an interface too. When I want to see something artistic I could always GET UP from the PC if I hadn't bothered to hang a painting on an adjacent wall or even used a desktop wallpaper.


By TomZ on 6/12/2006 2:42:46 PM , Rating: 2
I agree with the above poster, aesthetics are important, too. Lots of us office worker types spend lots of time on the computer, and having a cool new look now and then is really refreshing.

But obviously, this can't come at the expense of performance and reliability, but I don't see why such a tradeoff is necessary.


Wish people would stop whining about Microsoft
By Sharky974 on 6/12/2006 7:19:31 AM , Rating: 3
That's what I wish.

Stop whining.

Dont get the product if you dont like it. Delete it. Whatever you wanna do. Go run whatever crap open source OS you like. Just dont tell me about it.

Stop. Whining.




By Hare on 6/12/2006 12:02:24 PM , Rating: 2
What's wrong with criticism? If you want to read how great Vista is why don't you just browse Microsofts official vista-pages...


By mindless1 on 6/13/2006 8:25:18 AM , Rating: 2
I'll stop whining about people whining about whiners right after MS stops producing things that make people whine about whiners. See? IT'S ALL MICKEY'S FAULT you are whiney.


Vista needs work
By Locutus465 on 6/12/2006 12:06:20 AM , Rating: 2
Personally, I like a lot of the concepts found in Vista. I'm a fan of Areo, I'm a big fan of the install *process* particularly MS ditching the assumption that everyone has a floppy drive, and with many of the innovations. Where Microsoft falls down is in implementation.

As many pointed out, the installer takes *for ever* to get through. I had more than enough time to put on a cup of coffee and take out the trash while I waited for the Wizard to load up. Once I got through the inital screens the rest of it was fairly reasnoble. Considering this is a 4GB install, I didn't expect the actual process of installing to fly. But the long time to initailize the installer wizard (and repair wizard which I got to use already) is wholly unnacceptable.

The Windows experience could be much much better. While I like the new UI, it's clear to me that the system currently sucks way more resources than is strictly nessesary. In fact, out of the box users can expect vista with Areo (as of beta 2) to consume 750MB of memory!!!! That's quite a lot to just load up the OS and UI.

If microsoft can get the code cleaned up, trim it down quite a bit, and release a product that looks like beta 2 (but doesn't commit suicide readily, I've had my vista installation die twice so far) I think they'll have a winner. Other wise, I think microsoft as we know it is finished.




RE: Vista needs work
By Locutus465 on 6/12/2006 10:46:10 PM , Rating: 2
And now that I've revived Vista (again), I'm sorry but with a dual core processor browsing the web and chatting shouldn't cause Mp3's to skip!!


RE: Vista needs work
By dev0lution on 6/13/2006 12:24:24 AM , Rating: 2
I just wish they'd pay more attention to the installers. It took me a couple of tries before I realized (for whatever HW or Vista reason) that I had to run the installer in Windows XP to get it to reboot like it was supposed to throughout the install. Trying to install booting off of the DVD didn't reboot for some reason and the install would fail. Kinda reminds me of slapping the default XP install instructions on XP MCE, where it would ask for the SP2 disc when it really meant put the 1st CD back in.

It shouldn't be that hard to work out the installer instructions to match what MS really wants you to do, beta or otherwise....


Numbers?
By kristof007 on 6/11/2006 7:58:44 PM , Rating: 2
So how many times was it downloaded?




RE: Numbers?
By judasmachine on 6/12/2006 12:49:25 AM , Rating: 2
It's still going. I tried downloading it last week when it launched but it failed, so I'm downloading it right now. I got the key last week though.


RE: Numbers?
By ZeeStorm on 6/12/2006 12:20:20 PM , Rating: 1
The numbers could easily be made up. We all know M$ would do anything for more hype. M$ created the term viral marketing, it's simply what they do. I don't believe it, nor plan on ever downloading Vista.


By crystal clear on 6/12/2006 2:03:06 AM , Rating: 3
" labeled as the "Biggest software download event in history."

If you are talking of downloads, the biggest was S.P. 2 of XP-
hey who does not use XP.So MS seems to blows it over with such a statement.

Now to Vista-Right, now the ordinary users are not the downloaders but the Professional(IT)-if you talking numbers.
People seem to find it complicating -at the download/installation stage,dont seem to how to go about at this stage & get frustrated in the end.
The professional users are ofcourse having a Go at this,nice
reading those comments-helps also.




By kibets on 6/11/2006 8:19:21 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, I tried to download and then ended up deciding to simplify my life and go ahead and purchase the DVD for $6. Not a bad price but it is deactivated in June 2007.

I can not wait to get a chance to play with it!




By Xavian on 6/12/2006 3:22:30 AM , Rating: 2
I seriously recommend installing the latest drivers for vista that came out when beta 2 was announced. They really sped up my system on vista.

Drivers link for nvidia:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/winvista_x86_88.61.ht...

dont have the ATi link, check their site.

it really helps! Oh, also the vista beta Creative X-Fi drivers dont work on vista (suprise! :P), so for now you have to install the windows xp version and only the downloaded versions, the CD wont work. Plus you only get stereo sound, until creative actually uses some of that money they got by selling X-Fi and makes some DECENT drivers!




OTOH...
By plonk420 on 6/12/2006 2:20:42 PM , Rating: 2
but *I* chose bittorrent... ;)

http://plonkmedia.org/tracker

when people were having issues downloading the file due to "demand", i setup a tracker by request ;) (i'm assuming people aren't getting that error message anymore >_>)




Disappionted
By detwilzl on 7/9/2006 3:01:05 PM , Rating: 2
Quite frankly; Vista sucks ass. Everything about it has such a cheap feel and virus problems are going to be worse than XP from what i've heard. I've been a hardcore Windows/Microsoft user for years, but I think I'm going to switch to a Mac. I hated Apple, but since I really got to use some of their stuff in the stores lately, i've found that OS X is just so much better in everyway than Vista, and it was released over a year ago. Microsofts sinking and i'm getting off the boat.




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