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User reports of Windows Vist SP1 problems are varied, growing

Microsoft's Windows Vista has accumulated a very large user base since its release to the public in January 2007.  The recently released SP1 included bundled drivers with the aim of increased compatibility in users' machines who do not regularly perform driver updates.  It also includes speed ups to hibernation recovery, and the ability to use encryption tool BitLocker on multiple drives. 

Furthermore, to improve hard drive write times, SP1 moved Vista from an uncached write system to a cached I/O mode system.  The net result was slight increases in hard drive write speeds, according to preliminary tests; though surprisingly, the test found that USB drive write speeds dropped significantly. 

SP1 shipped to English language volume customers, MSDN subscribers, and testers last month.  Initially, some users experienced a catastrophic failure when one of the previous Windows updates was found to trigger an endless boot loop after the installation of SP1.  Microsoft quickly pulled the offending update.  Now with the release of SP1 to the general public, the large test population is sure to reveal any flaws in the SP1 if there are any.

And it turns out there may be, if initial reports are to be believed.  Some people are still reporting being locked into the boot loop, possibly due to the lingering presence of the malignant update.  Many users left pointed remarks about the various failures on Microsoft's Vista Team's blog.  Some users remarked that the update destroyed the latest versions of their NVIDIA drivers.  Says commenter "SeppDietrich", "What a disaster-- It exiled all my NVIDIA drivers to the Bermuda Triangle."

Other users complained of significant slowdowns.  "
After installing SP1 things seem to go really slow, even though my computer shouldn't have any problems," said one commenter named "Bikkja".

Part of the slowdown may be due to spiking memory demands experienced by some users.  One user
"Kurrier" reported that his memory usage by the OS jumped from 650 MB to 1 GB.  He announced that he would definitely be switching back to the pre-SP1 version of Vista.

Also, SP1 would not install on some computers which have incompatible hardware drivers.   A small set of Intel and Realtek drivers are among those deemed incompatible.  For the full list of incompatible hardware, refer here.  Microsoft is working to resolve these issues.

One should note that service packs often wreak havoc on users’ computers and that Windows has a long history of releasing Service Packs that negatively affected some users.  Windows XP SP1, while delivering essential updates in 2002 caused many problems, which Microsoft scrambled to fix in a series of subsequent patches. 

Windows SP1 is currently available in five languages: English, French, German, Japanese, and Spanish.  Some retailers such as Amazon started selling boxed copies of the update yesterday.  Users must install prerequisite files before install Vista SP1, including the allegedly fixed prerequisite that caused the boot loop crash on some users' machines.



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Maybe I missed it
By Xodus Maximus on 3/20/2008 9:56:31 AM , Rating: 5
But where are all these users coming from and where did they report this to. Microsoft's forums? AnanndTech's forums?

Because, this can simply be a bunch of kids with too much time who just post to "be with the hate mob", Im sorry the I don't trust the word of "Bikkja" or "SeppDietrich", do you have anything more concrete.

Oh and yes I do have SP1 running on my HTPC for a while now, no issues...




RE: Maybe I missed it
By Homerboy on 3/20/2008 10:03:28 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Im sorry the I don't trust the word of "Bikkja" or "SeppDietrich", do you have anything more concrete.


Exactly.... these are just anybody posting anything on a forum. Not sure if this is "news" or not. I'm going to post that "SP1 killed my dog!!" Lets see if that makes it to DT's front page...


RE: Maybe I missed it
By Capsaicin on 3/20/2008 10:07:36 AM , Rating: 6
More exact link (than the article's) where you can find the users' posts:
http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/windowsvista/arc...


RE: Maybe I missed it
By Cobra Commander on 3/20/2008 10:46:55 AM , Rating: 5
Thanks for that.

I think the original point still stands though that generally speaking to much hype is creating by online bloggers citing other bloggers comments. The amount of credit given is an undeserved amount. I will say the RSS description of this article is overtly colorful, "User reports of Windows Vist SP1 problems are varied, growing." Nothing untrue about it but it's inherently painting a picture full of bias and I wonder if this scene will ever grow up.

Additionally the longer you've used Windows the more this is nothing more than history repeating yourself. Doesn't mean complaints cannot be valid but almost every doggone SP gets this reaction immediately after launch. Beginning with WindowsXP SP's Microsoft uninstalled non-WHQL certified drivers if the SP contained WHQL drivers for your hardware - and what do we see five and a half years later? The same complaint.

I don't know, most of the immediate complainers are individuals who at best I take their complaints with a grain of salt. ...another rant full of complaints... quick, someone quote me and blog an article on it. :P


RE: Maybe I missed it
By JasonMick (blog) on 3/20/2008 11:07:43 AM , Rating: 2
While you raise somewhat of a valid point about sources, however, print news is not much different in using quotes from random sources (ie. guy on the street says this about the mayor). While you could argue that there is some anonymity granted by username blog posts, who could possibly be trolls, print and video news often cite individual's comments. These comments certainly could be perceived as biased, particularly when it comes to political issues. And as to the anonymity, while video news might be a mark better in its quoting as you lose some anonymity with your picture being taken, print news is really no less anonymous than blogs in that people could simply give falacious names when being quoted.

My point is that online news (like DailyTech) and online blogs (like DailyTech's blog section) are no more or less respectable than print or television news. As this article obviously relies on user accounts, I intentionally added disclaimers, as well as an explanation to make the extent of these problems clear. Similar problems have happened with service packs in the past, so it seems like there's no reason to blanketly disregard reports of problems. If a number of users are reporting a problem with a popular software standard, it certainly is newsworthy.

The great thing about online news though is its ability to reach a broader audience than print news. That's the real difference.


RE: Maybe I missed it
By walk2k on 3/20/2008 12:24:45 PM , Rating: 3
read this same article quoting the same "sources" yesterday on WSJ so apparently it's common practice now to cite people named "Capt_KickzUrAazz9900" as experts.

anyway I really want to know why someone claiming that his system is using more ram "at idle" than before, because really that's a good thing. "free" ram should probably be renamed to "useless" ram with all the system cache and "pre-fetch" that vista does now.


RE: Maybe I missed it
By Alexstarfire on 3/20/2008 1:18:41 PM , Rating: 2
The problem with the way Windows tells you how much RAM is used is that it doesn't always tell you WHERE it's being used. They don't tell you how much is being used for pre-fetch and stuff like that.

IDK, I think it's more of a mind thing. That if it's being used at idle, that it can't be used when you run a program. I mean, that's traditionally how it's worked with Windows stuff. If it's allocated in one place it won't be used in another.


RE: Maybe I missed it
By theapparition on 3/20/2008 2:09:38 PM , Rating: 5
Hey,
Say what you want but Capt_KickzUrAazz9900 knows his stuff!!!


RE: Maybe I missed it
By Melricx on 3/20/2008 1:44:46 PM , Rating: 5
The difference though, is that the blogs have ready access to sites that are magnets for complaints. So you go hit up the Vista blog site and lo and behold there are 20 people complaining about updating to Vista SP1. Well the 20K other people that successfully updated are not heading over to the Vista blog to post their success stories.

It's analogous to a newspaper that heads to a AA meeting, ask questions about alcoholism, and then publishes a story that alcoholism is on the rise. The sample is not random so the results are in now way predictive of a trend.

And face it, you want a juicy story that Vista SP1 is breaking everyone's computer. So you get a few comments that back that up and then run with the story.


RE: Maybe I missed it
By jtesoro on 3/20/2008 11:49:48 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The difference though, is that the blogs have ready access to sites that are magnets for complaints.


Isn't that a good thing? Absent these venues, there could be major trouble and few would hear about them. Be happy that you can see the problems that people say they have on their systems, but use proper perspective on assessing their validity or applicability to you.


RE: Maybe I missed it
By timmiser on 3/20/2008 8:06:34 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
While you raise somewhat of a valid point about sources, however, print news is not much different in using quotes from random sources (ie. guy on the street says this about the mayor). While you could argue that there is some anonymity granted by username blog posts, who could possibly be trolls, print and video news often cite individual's comments.


The big difference is when the TV news crews interview the 'guy on the street' there is more of an element of a random, neutral answer. When you go to a forum for a quote, you, the editor, are picking and choosing the quote you want to use from many posts.


RE: Maybe I missed it
By Domicinator on 3/20/2008 2:55:23 PM , Rating: 5
I'm totally with you on this, and not only do you have to take online bloggers and forum trolls with a grain of salt, you also have to take Jason Mick articles on DailyTech with a grain of salt. He loves to come up with misleading headlines and couple them with freakish pictures of Balmer (ok, maybe Balmer brings that on himself) in order to make the situation look much worse than it really is.

I happen to think Vista is a wonderful OS. I game on it, I work on it, I use it all over my house, and it runs my home network. I've had very very few issues, and the ones I did have were in the first month of launch, usually dealing with Nvidia drivers. Those got better quickly and I haven't had a problem since.

SP1 has improved my experience even more. Boot up and shut down is faster on both my machines, file copying over the network is faster, the defrag tool is better (though still a bit gimpy), and both machines seem even more responsive than they were before. I think SP1 was a success.

Now, giving some credit to Jason Mick, I think he did treat Vista fairly in this article and even gave it some props, but did you see when SP1 RC came out? His headline was something along the lines of: "Windows Vista SP1 kills computers!!" And of course it had a scary Ballmer picture next to it. What he was referring to was the installation loop, which certainly isn't widespread and most definitely does not have the ability to "kill" a computer.


RE: Maybe I missed it
By jtemplin on 3/20/2008 10:59:02 AM , Rating: 2
spicy.


RE: Maybe I missed it
By crystal clear on 3/20/08, Rating: -1
RE: Maybe I missed it
By Xodus Maximus on 3/20/2008 11:26:01 AM , Rating: 5
I guess I did miss it, thanks :)

However reading the actual comments from those users make me sad, just because some of them are written obviously because that person had nothing better to do, probably read some other forum and regurgitated their own version in the "vista blog", true or not, I doubt we'll ever know...

Like this SeppDietrich:
quote:
It exiled all of my Nvidia drivers to the Bermuda Triangle..
the install fails...every time,without fail.(Pun intended)
Good Ol' Code 80070005...
So I'm sitting here with my lovely 24" WFP2407 monitor at some asstacularly low resolution


maybe I am wrong, and that is how that person talks in every day life, but I doubt it...(why do people love to make up crap?)

Its like a person who just gassed up a Ferrari then it explodes for some unknown reason and all the person says is:
quote:
Well it was a cool fireball.
Dang, and I just bought some new Goodyear 4000X tires for it.
Oh no, I had a turkey sandwich in the glove compartment, why must all the good sandwiches die young.
I should call my mother and see if Scruffy got his shots


I could go on but hopefully you get my point, which from the comments on this thread, you do :)


RE: Maybe I missed it
By prenox on 3/20/2008 11:11:38 PM , Rating: 2
If Microsoft owns the blog they could always do like Apple and delete the posts


RE: Maybe I missed it
By mercilessming on 3/20/2008 11:03:43 AM , Rating: 2
Exactly, I haven't gotten SP1 yet. Because of all the whiners, I let Microsoft update do everything, just so I can say to the whiners and doubters, Every update (hotfix,patch,hard ware driver update) Microsoft sends gets installed and no problems, and "I turn around and say to the whiners and doubters maybe if you get off the 32bit celeron from 1994 you to could run the best OS Microsoft has produced".

I have a old 64bit Dual Core with 4gigs of ram and love the feeling when I use Vista that my hardware is being fully utilized. I hope Microsoft only continues the great work. If only we could get (Western Digital, Maxtor etc) to speed up hard drives now, since they haven't REALLY sped up hard drives in like a decade now.


RE: Maybe I missed it
By Xodus Maximus on 3/20/2008 11:33:50 AM , Rating: 2
I wish people would stop thinking that a 32bit version is without its place, the HTPC with SP1 I mentioned has Home Premium 32bit on it. Its a P4 3Ghz with an ATI X200, and it runs the "Aero Glass" experience with no glitches or slowdowns.


RE: Maybe I missed it
By FITCamaro on 3/20/2008 12:32:35 PM , Rating: 2
Well considering the only thing they can do to "speed up" hard drives is increase rotation speed, most people don't want a jet engine sounding hard drive in their computer. Desktop hard drives come in 5400 rpm, 7200 rpm, and 10,000 rpm flavors. The fastest hard drives are 15,000 rpm drives and are SCSI.

You can only spin a disc so fast without it shattering and maintain the read/write heads ability to read/write data reliably.

Even SSDs really don't improve much upon conventional hard drives transfer rates. Only lower seek times since the drive doesn't have to spin to the section of the disc where the data is. Current SSDs I think top out at 100MB/sec. A 10,000 rpm Raptor or 15,000 rpm SCSI drive are near that.


RE: Maybe I missed it
By Silver2k7 on 3/20/2008 3:12:40 PM , Rating: 2
Technically this is a SSD even thought its rackmounted and it may not be in the form factor you where thinking of..

Texas Memory Systems RamSan-400 (rackmounted)
3,000 MB/s random sustained external throughput

Violin 1010 Memory Appliance (rackmounted)
1400 MB/s Read, 1000 MB/s write speed.
http://www.violin-memory.com/assets/techbrief_gen1...

Curtis HyperXCLR is the fastest 3.5" solid state disk
200 MB/s, Interface:1 / 2G Fibre-channel


RE: Maybe I missed it
By Sivar on 3/21/2008 1:29:50 AM , Rating: 5
This is actually not true.
Hard drive performance increases are mostly due to firmware optimizations, areal density increases, and some types of performance boost are from cache memory and how it is used. You'll notice that a modern 5400RPM hard drive absolutely blows away the 10,000RPM Seagate Cheetah 4LP, released on 1998.


RE: Maybe I missed it
By jonmcc33 on 3/21/2008 3:10:47 PM , Rating: 2
Every update installs without any problems? I don't agree with that at all. Microsoft even puts known problems associated with patches in each KB article. If you don't think there are problems then perhaps you should start reading KB articles a little more closely.

But, in most cases the problems are far and few in between. There are always variables to every problem and although the people with the negative comments may or may not be lying, we really don't know the hardware or software on their computers or whether they are even using a pirated or genuine copy of the OS. On every genuine Vista install on multiple computers that I own with various hardware and software I have never once had a problem since installing SP1. So I'm going to say that it's safe to install and worth the performance improvements that I have noticed.


RE: Maybe I missed it
By Eurasianman on 3/20/2008 11:25:46 AM , Rating: 4
Let's see...

Gateway laptop with Core 2 Duo and 1 GB of RAM - Vista Home Premium 32-bit with SP1... NO ISSUES!

Custom HTPC with Core 2 Duo and 2 GBs of RAM - Vista Home Premium 32-bit with SP1... NO ISSUES!

Custom Desktop with Intel Xeon X3220 and 4 GBs of RAM - Vista Ultimate 64-bit with SP1... NO ISSUES!

HP laptop with AMD Turion X2 and 2 GBs of RAM - Vista Home Premium 64-bit with SP1... NO ISSUES!

Compaq Presario with Intel Celeron and 2 GBs of RAM - Vista Home Premium 32-bit with SP1... NO ISSUES!

So, what's the issue?


RE: Maybe I missed it
By RaisedinUS on 3/20/2008 12:04:38 PM , Rating: 2
I upgraded(basically everything) my rig a few months ago and installed Vista Ultimate I had been testing on an older machine. Everything ran fine. SP1, fails to reboot, asks me for the install disk to repair Windows. I slip in the disk, reboot, select repair. It can't repair Vista. I reset my BIOS (yes, it was overclocked) to default and after many failed reboots, it finally let me choose Last known good config. It took a long time but it finally booted into Windows. Now I see where 1.18 GB of RAM is being held instead of the usual 500-700 MB. Everything seems to run fine, no noticeable slowdowns. So, while you had no problems,congratulations, that doesn't mean others don't.


RE: Maybe I missed it
By walk2k on 3/20/2008 12:27:13 PM , Rating: 2
so what you're saying is, your overclocked system isn't 100.0% stable.


RE: Maybe I missed it
By RaisedinUS on 3/20/2008 12:46:13 PM , Rating: 2
Where did I say that? Quite a leap you made there. Why did Vista run perfectly pre SP1? It's only a mild OC to begin with and passed all the stability tests many times. Vista was INSTALLED on the OC. What I AM saying is some do have a few problems with SP1. Am I trashing Vista? Not at all.


RE: Maybe I missed it
By walk2k on 3/20/08, Rating: 0
RE: Maybe I missed it
By RaisedinUS on 3/20/2008 4:25:19 PM , Rating: 2
That didn't solve the problem. It took many reboot attempts to get it to safe mode. And there's this memory hogging problem I mentioned.
System install for a test? Reaching again? Odd it worked fine until the SP1 patch.


RE: Maybe I missed it
By arazok on 3/20/08, Rating: 0
RE: Maybe I missed it
By RaisedinUS on 3/20/2008 4:30:03 PM , Rating: 2
I don't get your point, if you had one.


RE: Maybe I missed it
By arazok on 3/20/08, Rating: -1
RE: Maybe I missed it
By Eurasianman on 3/20/2008 2:49:26 PM , Rating: 2
Did you make sure you didn't install the "other" update that causes SP1 to mess up your computer?


RE: Maybe I missed it
By RaisedinUS on 3/20/2008 4:28:22 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not sure what happened. Updates are automatic. My original post wasn't to piss on Vista but say some have had problems. I consider this minor as nothing was lost but some time.


RE: Maybe I missed it
By Alexstarfire on 3/20/2008 10:42:36 PM , Rating: 2
The problem is that the Service Pack includes optional files. That's not something that should be forcefully installed on a computer just so you can get the SP1 files.


RE: Maybe I missed it
By Griffinhart on 3/21/2008 1:56:06 PM , Rating: 2
Similar experience here too.

Dell Inspiron Laptop Pentium M w/ 2GB running SP1 for Vista Business(32)... No Issues.

Custom Desktop (My Media Center) AMD X2 3800+ w/ 2GB running SP1 for Vista Ultimate(64)... No Issues

Custom XPC box AMD64 3000+ w/ 1GB running SP1 Home Premium(32)... No Issues.

Custom Gaming Rig Intel QX6850 w/ 4GB running SP1 Ultimate(64)... No Issues.

While I don't doubt there are some people having problems with SP1, I'm more inclined to believe it's with drivers, flaky hardware or even over aggressive over clocking.


I can't update SP1 anyways
By AnnihilatorX on 3/20/2008 10:04:58 AM , Rating: 1
On my 16GB SSD, the windows folder alone consumes 14.5GB.
The updates requires 2GB of space.

Junctioning off the winsxs folder where all the crap is to another HDD or partition will make the update fail.

So I am stuck to the retail Vista.




RE: I can't update SP1 anyways
By Capsaicin on 3/20/2008 10:10:22 AM , Rating: 2
What about compressing the folder (with NTFS compression)?


RE: I can't update SP1 anyways
By Lord 666 on 3/20/2008 10:12:59 AM , Rating: 3
Or buying a larger SSD? That might be a good place to start.


RE: I can't update SP1 anyways
By AnnihilatorX on 3/20/2008 11:44:35 AM , Rating: 3
I bought this 16GB SSD thinking that it should last a while.
If it is not for the size check, the the junction bug for updates. there's no reason why the update cannot be applied.

Currently there is 4GB of free space on my SSD. Vista runs fine and speedy. However updates wouldn't run because I relocated the winsxs folder where most of the bloat and junk of the OS is located. There are literally 500 folders with names beginning with AMD there. I am using an Intel processor.
Nice one Microsoft :)


RE: I can't update SP1 anyways
By eye smite on 3/20/2008 3:23:16 PM , Rating: 3
500 folders that start with AMD? All I can do is chuckle at that.


RE: I can't update SP1 anyways
By eosmund on 3/20/2008 5:46:02 PM , Rating: 2
You do know that Intel 64-bit processors use the AMD64 architecture right? You moved out important system files that Windows relies on.


RE: I can't update SP1 anyways
By smut on 3/21/2008 3:42:35 PM , Rating: 2
Haha owned.


RE: I can't update SP1 anyways
By glennpratt on 3/26/2008 12:11:44 PM , Rating: 2
AMD makes alot more then processors. But as I'm sure your aware, these are drivers, some of which you may not be using.


RE: I can't update SP1 anyways
By Yawgm0th on 3/20/2008 11:36:01 AM , Rating: 1
And making the already lethargic write speeds of a 16GB SSD even slower?


RE: I can't update SP1 anyways
By AnnihilatorX on 3/20/2008 11:52:36 AM , Rating: 2
I don't think you can do that to a Windows folder. It won't allow you anyway since they are write protected.

I have nothing else on my partition other than the Windows folder, and very little stuff on program files. Not much I can do to shrink it.


RE: I can't update SP1 anyways
By walk2k on 3/20/2008 12:29:51 PM , Rating: 2
you can probably delete screensavers, wallpapers, and even help files if you don't need them.

I know back in the day of 250MB hard drives and Win95 we used to do that and get back a few megs... I think the help files alone were 3-5 MB.


RE: I can't update SP1 anyways
By jtesoro on 3/20/2008 11:57:29 PM , Rating: 2
One thing that usually cleans up a ton of space for me (on my XP machines anyway), is to remove old restore points. I think installing even just a small app makes Windows save a huge restore image, so taking those out via Control Panel gives a major boost to available space.


RE: I can't update SP1 anyways
By SilthDraeth on 3/20/2008 10:18:09 AM , Rating: 2
It may be beneficial for you to use the Vista Lite application to shrink down the installation size. 14.5GB sounds like you are using Vista 64?


RE: I can't update SP1 anyways
By AnnihilatorX on 3/20/2008 11:41:39 AM , Rating: 2
Indeed I am running x64.

I think Vlite is incompatible with SP1. I don't think it can shrink Vista without doing a fresh reinstall, which is what I am trying to avoid.


RE: I can't update SP1 anyways
By omnicronx on 3/20/2008 3:14:17 PM , Rating: 2
Your problem could be solved by moving to 32 bit vista. 64 bit code can require 20-30% more space than 32 bit code. This is why vista 64 requires more ram, and why vista 64 updates are larger. The base vista install and the sp1 update will be smaller in 32 bit, theres no doubt about that..


RE: I can't update SP1 anyways
By RamarC on 3/20/2008 10:21:18 AM , Rating: 5
your hard drive doesn't even meet vista basic's minimum requirements:
20 GB hard drive with at least 15 GB of available space

so you must have installed to a larger drive and cloned it to the SSD or hacked the install. either way, it's no surprise you can't install a 1GB update with only 1.5GB free.


RE: I can't update SP1 anyways
By AnnihilatorX on 3/20/2008 11:40:31 AM , Rating: 2
I checked the Update size. With Automatic update not the standalone update, only required components are downloaded. I am up to date with the hotfixes. The automatic SP1 download folder was only 176MB. (In the windows SoftwareDistribution folder, where automatic updates are)

Now you tell me why it needs 2GB to install 176MB of fixes. :P


RE: I can't update SP1 anyways
By Griffinhart on 3/21/2008 2:03:37 PM , Rating: 2
Probably to expand the files as well needing room to copy temp files while installing the service pack so it can roll back safely if there is a problem.

The point still stands though. The system requirements for vista call for 40GB with 15GB free and you are surprised that you are having SP1 issues on a 17GB drive with 2GB free?


RE: I can't update SP1 anyways
By AnnihilatorX on 3/20/2008 12:03:48 PM , Rating: 2
I didn't clone the installation. I an guarantee you 100% that you can install Vista on a 16GB HDD with space left for a few small programs, e.g. Firefox, Winamp. (Not Adobe ones). Initially Windows folder would be around 7-8GB. You then need to disable Hibernation and page files. After updating and installed some programs, you will have a healthy 1.5GB left.

It's also best to use NTFS juntion or by modifying registry and environment variables to move the temp folders.
But if you install stuff like Photoshop, you may need to move the Common files folder as well, where most of the bulk are installed. That's what I have done. Annoyingly if you use NTFS junction points for the common files folder, the installation program would still check the space requirement at C drive. Because it's tricked to believe that common files folder is still at C drive. Most software that use the Common files folder would not allow you to change the location, which is stuck at C:.

Anyways I have even moved the AppData folder of my user profile. I have then never had any problems with space on C: no matter what I install.


RE: I can't update SP1 anyways
By crystal clear on 3/20/2008 10:54:37 AM , Rating: 1
Stop complaining !!!!call up Microsoft support-they are just for that ....to assist you !


RE: I can't update SP1 anyways
By AnnihilatorX on 3/20/2008 11:47:22 AM , Rating: 3
I did e-mail them. They claim the response should be 8 business hours. I've waited for 2 days.

I don't think they can help me much though. I know what the problem is, and what caused it. I am not looking for troubleshooting. The only thing I can do is to beg them to fix the update procedure so that junctioning is supported. That I don't think they will cater just for me.


RE: I can't update SP1 anyways
By FITCamaro on 3/20/2008 12:34:35 PM , Rating: 2
Why are you running Vista x64 on a 16GB SSD? Why would you run Vista period on that small a hard drive?

Switch back to XP.


RE: I can't update SP1 anyways
By AnnihilatorX on 3/20/2008 12:54:26 PM , Rating: 2
I happened have a legitimate copy of Vista. My other XP license was already used on another PC. Well there had been no problem whatsoever apart from the update algorithm. If Microsoft release the SP1 disc to public on a fresh reinstall there's no technical reason why it would not work on a small HDD.

The SP1 image is for subscribers only currently. But then I would not want to reinstall my system.
I think the best bet for me now is to clone my drive, update, and put the image back on. I'd need a spare HDD for that.


RE: I can't update SP1 anyways
By bhieb on 3/20/2008 1:39:40 PM , Rating: 3
That is what I would've suggested. Go to any mom and pop IT shop, they probably have a 10, 20, or 40 gig drives laying around they will give you if you ask nicely (heck I have a whole stack that needs recycling).

And FitCamaro the why does not really matter, judging by his post he is not just some idiot, it is right to push the envelope so to speak. Of course when it doesn't work he is stuck trying to find solutions (and it appears he knew that going in), but your "why'd you do it that way stupid" type of comments really just clogg up the tread (hey adds to you post totals though).


In all fairness
By FITCamaro on 3/20/2008 9:41:31 AM , Rating: 2
When software has a user base of billions of people, you're going to have issues. Especially possible driver ones.

Now as far as not fixing the boot loop issue, that needs to be addressed first. Also memory usage should not have spiked. Is that on everyone's PC running Vista or just on a few and far between? Vista users? Any comments? I don't have it yet myself(been wanting to upgrade just haven't had the money available).




RE: In all fairness
By Lonyo on 3/20/2008 9:53:57 AM , Rating: 2
Vista isn't even close to having a billion users, let alone multiple billions.
But yes, on a large and varied user base, you would expect at least some people to have problems. If Microsoft made a product that was 100% bug free it would be more surprising (and I'm not saying that to knock Microsoft, it's just the way of the world).


RE: In all fairness
By Aberforth on 3/20/2008 10:40:28 AM , Rating: 2
Software cannot be 100% bug free but problems can be fixed via updates. And its even difficult with large scale software with various teams handling various modules.


RE: In all fairness
By walk2k on 3/20/2008 12:36:13 PM , Rating: 2
yea but SP1 IS a "patch". it's supposed to fix bugs, not create more.

obviously nothing is perfect and releasing a huge software product like an OS to tens of millions of people at once, you're gonna run into issues... but I'd expect better seeing as this one had a beta of what... 8-9 months?


RE: In all fairness
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 3/20/2008 3:13:28 PM , Rating: 3
Can anyone remember the last patch from a vendor that didnt create more bugs while fixing existing ones?


SP1
By turbo264 on 3/20/2008 9:51:32 AM , Rating: 5
People are going to experience initial slow down after installing SP1 because SP1 clears Superfetch making vista have to relearn the way you use your computer. Seems like nobody knows about this and everyone is complaining about it, just give SP1 a few days.




RE: SP1
By ThePooBurner on 3/20/2008 10:15:32 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah. I think the guy who want to go back to pre-SP1 is going to find out the hard, long way that he is an idiot.


RE: SP1
By walk2k on 3/20/2008 12:32:21 PM , Rating: 2
as opposed to everyone else in the world who knows that already

(seriously his quote is being used in every single newspaper and web article I've read in the last 24 hrs..)


RE: SP1
By JamRockaz on 3/20/2008 12:48:02 PM , Rating: 2
I received the reciprocal of that statement. For me the speedup was noticeable even by my girlfriend who knows little about computers; she doesn't even know how to add a new account, but she noticed the speedup.

I installed SP1 last night my download was 121mb, install went fine: download and install took less than 6 minutes, however windows had to configure update on reboot, that took an additional 3 to 4 minutes. In less than 10 minutes I was up and running again.


I'm lookin' at you...
By HaZaRd2K6 on 3/20/2008 11:33:21 AM , Rating: 2
Intel and Creative. Update your damned drivers so I can install SP1. Do it. Now.




RE: I'm lookin' at you...
By RaisedinUS on 3/20/2008 12:10:51 PM , Rating: 2
Check the Creative site this month?
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi series Driver 2.15.0006 (63.05 MB) 14 Mar 08


RE: I'm lookin' at you...
By HaZaRd2K6 on 3/20/2008 2:12:41 PM , Rating: 2
I've got an Audigy, not an X-Fi.


RE: I'm lookin' at you...
By neothe0ne on 3/21/2008 1:24:36 AM , Rating: 2
Audigy 2 ZS owner using custom drivers found on Creative's forums, running SP1 just fine.


Even with SP1, Vista still has crappy audio
By xstylus on 3/20/2008 1:14:16 PM , Rating: 2
I previously had Vista on my Acer 5100, but I blew it away because of an audio clicking and popping problem that could not be resolved. I installed XP and audio was smooth as glass.

So, when SP1 came out I figured I'd give Vista another chance, so I did a fresh restore of Vista back onto my machine with SP1. Big mistake. Music still had clicking and popping. I tried updating every driver, still no change.

From what I've read from others in various tech forums, this is a common problem with practically every brand of sound card due to high latency introduced by Vista's nixing of ASIO in order to implement a protected audio path for DRM. If you don't have this problem, consider yourself lucky.

Whatever the case may be, crappy audio is a non-starter for me and a huge pisser in general. I have yet to see one thing Microsoft has EVER gotten right. XP is as close as they got, so back to XP for me, at least until my MacBook Pro comes in.




RE: Even with SP1, Vista still has crappy audio
By Obsoleet on 3/20/2008 1:45:36 PM , Rating: 2
I've seen audio problems on Vista, what you need to do is findout what codec your laptop uses and get the driver directly from Realtek or whoever.

I use a DFI SLI-D and NV's audio drivers used to work properly on XP but on Vista I had to goto RT to get drivers that wouldn't snap crack and pop. They are more updated than the NV drivers.

Also, don't get any driver updates from Windows Update I've noticed it does a poor job of identifying if you have a driver newer than the one they're offering (and its caused my machine to go into a infinite loop with it's RAID driver update).


By xstylus on 3/20/2008 2:28:10 PM , Rating: 2
Already done. I'm running v1.88 of RealTek's driver, in addition to several older versions plus the original driver that came with my notebook. I do IT support for a living, so I know to cover the basics. :)


By noirsoft on 3/21/2008 2:41:32 AM , Rating: 2
Vista nixing of asio? Now that's a lie. I run Cubase 4 on my laptop with a good external sound card and ASIO drivers and have never had an audio click or drop. Now, given that RealTek is a lame on-board audio solution and really doesn't support ASIO, the problem is probably in the faux-ASIO driver, and not in Vista at all. If you care about ASIO support, why not buy a card that really supports it?


No problems here...
By DeanO on 3/20/2008 10:42:53 AM , Rating: 2
SP1 installed, no issues, no boot loop, didn't take that long. I realise that's just my experience, but they make it sound like there's some serious general slowdown issues. I haven't experienced one. Seems SP1 is about as risky as installing most other pieces of software, a small percentage of people will experience problems, most won't.




RE: No problems here...
By just4U on 3/20/2008 11:01:11 AM , Rating: 2
I didnt have any real problems either. There was one, (I suppose) When it rebooted the first time it just went to a black screen and hanged. I powered off then powered back up and in continued on with the install.

The only reason I mention it is because someone else on one of these forums had the same issue. However, they waited for 2hrs before they finally powered off and then back on... so perhaps its a issue with certain hardware. I don't know. After that initial reboot, the update program had no problems rebooting the system 3-4 times more.

In total it took 17Minutes to install on my system. I haven't noticed any problems with it since.


RE: No problems here...
By Aloonatic on 3/20/2008 11:34:24 AM , Rating: 2
i have to admit, i did have problems when rebooting whilst installing SP1.

i was testing it out on my bosses nieces laptop that i had in to clear all the rubbish that comes with new computers.

Twice during reboot it just froze, saying that stage 2 and stage 3 of the update process were at 0 percent, no activity from the hard drive light or anything, i left the machine for a while as i was busy doing other things so it had plenty of time to sort itself out.

rebooting the machine again manually (against the advice of the message on screen) did the trick on both occasions and instantly progress was made.

I was a little supposed that i had to download a few updates from the windows update site before SP1 could be applied, especially as this was a brand new machine.

It could have something to do with it being Vista home basic. I didn't think it actually existed in the wild and was just a token effort to keep the EU happy, but there it was :D

It has put me off installing it on other more critical machines in the office, I must admit.


SP1 install issues
By tpg0007 on 3/20/2008 12:41:57 PM , Rating: 2
In anticipation of SP1, I did a clean install of Vista Ultimate and had a minimal of additional software installed. Patches prior to SP1 were applied just a few days before, no issues. When I rebooted after SP1, I found that it has disabled my mouse and Nvidia driver in device manager for some reason. All I had to do was re-enable them. Other than that no major issues I can see so far.




RE: SP1 install issues
By Necaradan666 on 3/21/2008 11:56:44 PM , Rating: 2
I too did a fresh install of Vista Ultimate before installing SP1. However I found that I had to install the two pre-req patches plus another three reliability updates and then MS Silverlight so that the third pre-req patch showed up and SP1 made itself known in Windows Update.

I have noticed faster startup and shutdown, networking and copying but I have also experienced a few seconds of pause before my music will play in WMP11, and IE7 seems to freeze up more often than it did pre-SP1.


PS3 and no IR receiver solution
By snorkel01 on 3/20/2008 6:11:56 PM , Rating: 2
http://www.ir2bt.com/

Actually a very elegant solution as it does not have to be anywhere near the PS3. Runs off a USB connection or AA batteries.




By Snuffalufagus on 3/20/2008 6:51:26 PM , Rating: 2
Some people like to hi-jack topics around here but it's a pretty big jump from Vista SP1 to Sony PS3 IR :)

I think this is part of the discussion here:
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=11163

at least you didn't make some sort of car anology out of the whole thing, so thanks.


By masa77 on 3/26/2008 11:14:34 AM , Rating: 2
I loaded SP1 anticipating it would address registry problems I ran into with certain applications not registering file types properly. After loading the SP my printers vanished and could not be restored, even after restarting the PC and print service several times. I went to look for a 'fix' only to find that web updates was broken as well.

Vista is a terrible excuse for an o/s, a blatant cash grab from Microsoft, and a waste of time for business users. It's no wonder it's received such bad press - it deserves it. I mean, what does Vista really offer the end user besides poor performance and more bugs? Aero theme? Whoop dee doo. I really fail to see why they even released this o/s except for the marketing aspect of it, aiming to increase their bottom line.




By Belard on 3/26/2008 1:48:00 PM , Rating: 2
I'm glad I'm not using vista. Even to this day, many techs in almost any company or field I've meet refuse to put vista on their PC.

It still offers nothing, other than DX10. As posted in the article and in at least one response here, the memory use has pretty much doubled. For what? It still takes 3-4GB of RAM to equal a 1GB XP system... sure memory is CHEAP, but its also a sign of bloated coding. It still means it requires more resources (memory, CPU, Hard Drive) to work for little or no gain over XP.


It's fine over here.
By Spivonious on 3/20/2008 10:54:07 AM , Rating: 2
No problems at all with SP1 here (H.P. x64). I was surprised at how fast it went too. I wasn't timing it but it was around 20 minutes from clicking "Install Update" to being back up and running.




No Problems Here Either
By Sceptor on 3/20/2008 11:02:47 AM , Rating: 2
Installed SP1 on two Vista Home Premium 32Bit machines. No problems to report here either. Actually, file transfer and overall responsiveness "feels" smoother.

Don't believe the DailyTech hype...SP1 is a worthwhile upgrade. But, YMMV.




no issues here...
By edved on 3/20/2008 11:08:40 AM , Rating: 2
Installed SP1 on my system which has a Quad CPU with 2m of RAM and have experienced zero issues. I noted that it took approx 40 mins to complete the install. Not bad.

It's only been two days now, but so far so good.




Boot loop
By aos007 on 3/20/2008 11:45:26 AM , Rating: 2
I ran into boot loop in the middle of installing SP1. After reboot, the PC was getting blue screen due to STOP exception shortly after starting the boot process. 64-bit ultimate.

It was due to having two soundcards in the machine. One is X-Fi for general usage, the other is E-MU professional card. Unfortunately E-MU is owned by Creative and they use similar set of drivers on almost identical hardware. I've been always having problems with this, even on XP.

After removing one card, Windows booted and finished the install. After that I was able to put the other card back and now both work again. Well, of course you get the usual notification that Creative applications crashed when you get to desktop (e.g. no card utilities in the tray) but that too is common... Other than that SP1 is working fine, with a bit faster network file copy; I haven't noticed any other change.




Maybe I'm just lucky but....
By Locutus465 on 3/20/2008 12:09:40 PM , Rating: 2
SP1 did nothing but speed up my HP laptop, very nice!




No problems here.
By Shawn on 3/20/2008 12:32:33 PM , Rating: 2
I've been using SP1 for over a month now with no problems at all. I haven't really noticed and speed ups or slow downs either though. It performs exactly the same as pre-SP1 did on my Core 2 Duo PC, which is, pretty damn fast.




No problems
By MGArcher007 on 3/20/2008 1:26:11 PM , Rating: 2
I agree with everyone in here.
Seriously... no problems at ALL.
It actually seems to be a little bit better than Windows Vista 1st edition, as far as speed and performance is concerned.
I don't know why people like to post false things about Vista, just because it is a new thing.
Other than that, works great for me!




!
By nidhoggr on 3/20/2008 1:46:53 PM , Rating: 2
No problems here either. Custom built AMD/ATI System (6000+EE, 4gb RAM, 690G Chipset, X1950Pro GFX), Vista Home Premium 64.
Install took about 20min (from Vista SP1 DVD), system running as fine as before.
The funny thing is most comments about failing Vista SP1 installs I read in german forums come from people with their uber-overclocked computers.
Yeah my little 6000+ cant keep up with those overclocked 4GHz Intel CPUs, but at least the system is really 100% stable and energy saving functions still work.




By crystal clear on 3/21/2008 11:14:29 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Windows SP1 is currently available in five languages: English, French, German, Japanese, and Spanish.


A puzzled Aussie who was told his language wasn’t supported for his Vista Ultimate-loaded PC.

He said: “Funny thing is, my language is English. Unless ‘English (Australian)’ is not considered English????? Have you stupid Americans limited English to the ‘English (United States)’ language pack? “What a joke. I'm switching back to Linux.”

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/20/vista_sp1_...




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