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Sony risks losing more development funds to Nintendo without price cut according to publishers

Game publishers are pressuring Sony to cut the price of the PlayStation 3 or face the risk of more development funds shifting to the Nintendo Wii according to a Bloomberg article. Sony, which used to be the undisputed industry leader, currently sits in third place for this generation’s line up of video game consoles. As the VGCHARTZ sales numbers show, the Nintendo Wii has an iron grip on first place, the Microsoft Xbox 360 sits in second, and the Sony PlayStation 3 is third. 

Multiple publishers in the Bloomberg article laid down the bottom line they face due to the way console sales have played out. Development is divided in to software titles for the best selling Nintendo Wii and software titles for the rest of the market which consist of the PlayStation 3, the Xbox 360, and the PC.

Electronic Arts’ Peter Moore very directly stated in the Bloomberg article, "You can't ignore the guy who has half the market." Evan Wilson, an analyst at Pacific Crest Securities in Portland, Oregon believes Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 titles are typically more expensive to produce and as a result, “The publishers need the PS3 install base to grow in order for most of these games to be profitable.”

Recently, Sony has enjoyed some momentum due to the release of quality exclusive titles for the PlayStation 3. Killzone 2 has lived up to the hype and has received high reviews. Sony has also signed a deal with NBC Universal to deliver movies and television to the PlayStation 3. In Japan, the PlayStation 3 recently out sold all competitors thanks to the release of another highly touted exclusive Yakuza 3 or Ryu Ga Gotoku 3.

Due to the success Sony has recently enjoyed, a price cut in the near future may be a wise choice in order to keep the momentum going. All past queries about the possibility of a PlayStation 3 price cut have been turned down by various Sony executives. Combining a continuous stream of solid exclusive software titles with a cheaper PlayStation 3 may be what is needed for Sony to compete for second place with Microsoft.

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Funny
By m0mentary on 3/18/2009 12:24:41 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Development is divided in to software titles for the best selling Nintendo Wii and software titles for the rest of the market which consist of the PlayStation 3, the Xbox 360, and the PC.


If thats the case, what exactly did the funds for wii development get used for?




RE: Funny
By nwrigley on 3/18/2009 12:31:24 PM , Rating: 5
I think the same thing whenever I read things like this. Where exactly are all these great Wii games they're developing?

If you take out Nintendo developed games, the Wii doesn't have much going for it.


RE: Funny
By monomer on 3/18/2009 1:30:47 PM , Rating: 2
Well, what the Dailytech article doesn't mention from the linked source, Activision Blizzard sells considerably more Wii titles than PS3.

quote:
In 2008, Activision Blizzard Inc., the world’s largest game company, generated 32 percent of its console revenue from Wii titles. That compared with 19 percent for PS3, according to Activision.


It would be interesting to know how the remaining 49% is split between the 360 and handhelds.


RE: Funny
By inperfectdarkness on 3/18/2009 3:02:44 PM , Rating: 2
that 49% is most likely:

handhelds 5%
360 20%
pc 24%

it IS blizzard we're talking about after; home of the $15 monthly subscription fee & breaking a single, $50 game into 3, $40 games. pc gamers are considered unintelligent cash-cows to them.


RE: Funny
By monomer on 3/18/2009 3:27:48 PM , Rating: 2
Well, the quote says 32% of console sales, so I don't imagine PC numbers would be included.


RE: Funny
By callmeroy on 3/18/2009 3:59:56 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
it IS blizzard we're talking about after; home of the $15 monthly subscription fee & breaking a single, $50 game into 3, $40 games. pc gamers are considered unintelligent cash-cows to them.


Looking at this quote:

1) They are charging $15 a month --- so? Do they run the only "game" in town (pun intended) using a subscription model?

2) Breaking a $50 game into 3 $40 games.

1 is moot and a complete non-issue, as many other games are out from other publishers charging monthly fees as well, #2 yes you have a point that is frustrating to me as well.

BUT because of ONE THING they are tainted as viewing thier customers as unintelligent cash cows?

You could apply that same logic then to anyone company on earth that sells a product.....we are all just viewed as cash cows to them....:)

PS...yes I am biased in favor of Blizzard -- their games are quality (granted they take forever and a day to hit release but that's probably a reason why they are so good)....been a fan of blizzard WAY before the current WoW era that has made them so famous.


RE: Funny
By CZroe on 3/19/2009 11:53:22 AM , Rating: 2
This doesn't surprise me. Activision sells more Guitar Hero III, Aerosmith, World Tour, etc on Wii.

People saying that only Nintendo makes good games on the Wii have forgotten about multi-platform titles and the awesome efforts of CAPCOM, Suda51, and Platinum Games (Zack & Wiki, No More Heroes, Mad World, etc).


RE: Funny
By KashGarinn on 3/19/2009 5:20:51 AM , Rating: 2
This is clearly showboating. Peter Molyneux and the rest of these developers would never (wait let me capitalize that) NEVER develop something for the wii as he just can't envision something which would actually run well on the wii.

These guys like and want the raw power of Xbox and PS3, and are trying to manipulate them, they're not trying to sell the strengths of the wii, otherwise they'd already have diverted funds to it and would be working on wii games.

- This isn't happening, and this won't happen. They won't actually do it because a) they can't work with the more limited hardware, b) they can't see themselves making "wii" games (meaning they see it as a lower standard - kids games platform).

They're just trying to get Sony to lower their price with a kind of stupid argument, as they won't start developing their games for the wii.. Can you really see Fable working on a Wii? Not a chance. Can you really see them creating a new successful IP designed specifically to work with the Wii? Very unlikely.

Face it, only nintendo (mostly) knows and enjoys (and thus are successful with) what they have with the Wii, alot of other developers just don't know how to work with the hardware to make an enjoyable game.


RE: Funny
By wempa on 3/19/2009 11:17:58 AM , Rating: 1
Your argument about hardware limitation is not valid. If so, then please explain how EA and other big publishers wrote code to run on the PS2 and original Xbox. Afterall, the Wii is about as powerful as those 2 consoles.


RE: Funny
By omnicronx on 3/18/2009 1:02:18 PM , Rating: 2
Funny they say that, because how many third party games have sold well for the Wii?

In fact the best selling third party game all time for the wii is guitar hero 3, with only 4 million copies sold. The next closest is under 3 million.

As such I don't believe for a second that development is split 50% wii, 50% PS3/360 for 3rd party developers. The top 5 selling third party nextgen games all reside on the PS3/360.


RE: Funny
By omnicronx on 3/18/2009 1:07:02 PM , Rating: 2
Ooops.. I guess I was wrong, Mario and Sonic is a Nintendo/Sega collaboration, although as Nintendo was involved, it really does not change my argument.


RE: Funny
By walk2k on 3/18/2009 1:35:43 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah it's a pretty hollow threat to be making about the Wii. Xbox 360 would be where people will shift their efforts, if that actually happens. Not the Wii.


RE: Funny
By Hiawa23 on 3/18/2009 6:56:38 PM , Rating: 2
You want a BD player, go buy a standalone. Sony needs to lower their pricing, plain and simple, or else next time around they may not have any developers at all. Sony is thinking about themselves, they don't realize that it does not matter if they are selling for a loss, if they don't regain the developer support, they might as well right off the PS4 already.

I agree, Sony needs to get the price down, & for the guy sitting on his high horse telling what he thinks low income earners should be doing with their money is as bad as the right wing cats we hear on the Radio & see on Fox. Greed in part has taken the economy in the direction it is in, yes rich & poor folks.


RE: Funny
By inperfectdarkness on 3/18/2009 3:09:54 PM , Rating: 3
don't blame nintendo for shovelware. they're a FAR cry from atari's attempts at shill-making. they're not even guilty of complicity with the Wii's shovelware.

imagine if they HAD blocked all crappy games. it probably would have killed their sales-base. no consumer is going to buy a system with a "guarantee" that all games are rated "A+++". all systems have shovelware--the ps1 was WAY more guilty than the Wii.

at least there are a few 3rd parties making pretty decent games for the Wii--not the least of which is hudson's ONSLAUGHT!


RE: Funny
By Proteusza on 3/18/2009 1:32:20 PM , Rating: 2
99% marketing, including suppression of bad reviews, and 1% actual game development.


RE: Funny
By Chadder007 on 3/18/2009 9:10:39 PM , Rating: 3
Wii development money gets blown on Blow and Hookers.


45nm Cell processor
By Brazos on 3/18/2009 12:10:29 PM , Rating: 2
Where the heck is the 45nm cell processor they promised last year? That was supposed to save them big $'s per unit. I'd buy one in a sec due to the improved power savings especially when folding@home.




RE: 45nm Cell processor
By hduser on 3/18/2009 1:35:01 PM , Rating: 2
I don't think it'll save that much money going from 65nm to 45nm right off the bat. You do get more chips per wafer but the initial yields will be poor. If they can get the RSX gpu down to 45 or 55nm that would help but I believe the die shrink would only save Sony around $30 unit last I heard. I believe IBM microprocessor division has ultimate control as to when 45nm will be out.


RE: 45nm Cell processor
By The0ne on 3/18/09, Rating: -1
Cost per Unit?
By UnimatrixOne on 3/18/2009 11:55:48 AM , Rating: 2
Anyone know how much it is per unit these days? I'm pretty sure Sony won't agree to any price drops despite any threats from publishers if they're still in the negative per unit, so I guess we'll see.




By SiliconJon on 3/19/2009 12:09:09 PM , Rating: 2
I'm sure I'm talking to a brick wall (Sony), but there's more than one way to increase the value of the console. Since a price cut is too hard on their bottom line how about some value added components?

The PS3 has immense potential, and potential is nothing but wasted or prohibited kenetic energy, so put that potential into motion.

How much do people pay for advertised based television? Too much, if you ask me. There's no reason the PS3 can't become a television feed device. Get Hulu, Netflix, and other online video providers working DIRECTLY on the PS3. No media server, no ugly DNLA or web interfaces - get them right into the PS3 menu, and make them good looking and powerfuly yet simple to use. And how little would it cost per unit to develop such software into the PS3? Seems to me it would be a mutually beneficial relationship between the content providers and Sony since the content providers would generate greater ad revenue for a larger viewer base while Sony would have greater value added to their media-monster-capable machine.

<sigh> but I'm sure it's "just not that easy"




A price cut is needed for sure.
By pequin06 on 3/18/09, Rating: -1
RE: A price cut is needed for sure.
By bldckstark on 3/18/2009 12:19:33 PM , Rating: 2
This little girlie man has 2 360's that I use for media center extenders along with gaming, Netflix and Live. I will buy a PS3 when the price comes down, but I will only use it as a blu-ray player.


RE: A price cut is needed for sure.
By MozeeToby on 3/18/2009 12:31:02 PM , Rating: 1
If you're only going to use it as a Blu-ray player, why not just buy a blu-ray player. There are already players out there that are cheaper, less power hungry, and above all quieter than the ps3.

I use my ps3 for blu-ray but I have still considered getting a dedicated player just to reduce the noise and I only buy Blu-ray for action movies. (One thing I'll never understand is why the movie studios expect us to pay an extra $20 so my wife can watch Bridget Jone's Diary in HD, keep HD to movies that actually improve with the move to HD).


RE: A price cut is needed for sure.
By FITCamaro on 3/18/2009 2:26:20 PM , Rating: 1
Don't think I've ever heard my PS3 running no matter what I was doing.

And I think the issue is that its one of the best and easiest to update Blu-ray players on the market. Plus for the little bit of extra cash, you get the ability to play games should you choose to.


RE: A price cut is needed for sure.
By SunAngel on 3/18/2009 4:03:47 PM , Rating: 3
thank you for your comment FITCamaro.

my PS3, while not dead silent, barely makes a whisper in the quiet of my bedroom. When I had the XBOX360 just having the thing on the fans would ramp up and wake me out of my sleep at night.

it amazes me, and i know dailytech and many of its patrons are pro-microsoft and slightly pro-sony, but not one of them will finally fess up and say, "yeah, netflix is super great but it annoys me to have to hear my XBOX360 fans." i realize it may be true that some are more tolerable to noise than others. but come on, even the most hard-of-hearing person can hear those fans at idle. (and please notice i made no mention of the dvd drive...that is a given and everyone knows its loud...so lets move on...i am specifically referring to the internal fans)


RE: A price cut is needed for sure.
By MozeeToby on 3/18/2009 4:44:01 PM , Rating: 2
My loud fan noise may be due to having one of the early 60 gb models with full ps2 emulation. I guess I hadn't realized how much quiter they have gotten since then. Also important to note is that I haven't yet invested in a decent surround system, if I did that I doubt I would have problem.


By afkrotch on 3/18/2009 8:26:42 PM , Rating: 2
I have the original 60 gig model and I don't even hear the fan. Not sure, maybe you've got probs with your PS3.

The 360s fans aren't that bad either. I think it's tolerable. That dvd-rom on the other hand isn't. I have to turn up the noise to drown it out.


By Reclaimer77 on 3/19/2009 7:56:35 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
And I think the issue is that its one of the best and easiest to update Blu-ray players on the market. Plus for the little bit of extra cash, you get the ability to play games should you choose to.


If I want to watch DVD's, It's going to be in my living room where I EXPECT to have a set top box with infra red support. The PS3 absolutely fails as a movie player in this regard. I have an expensive Harmony remote and I'm expected to just accept the PS3 being crippled right out of the box with no native IR support ?

The 'issue' is Sony strong arming consumers into accepting their proprietary format and console/player and telling us to like it. And they are purposely leaving the BluRay format fuzzy an unfinalized so people will use the justification that you just posted, that we need a player that can be updated. Huh ? When's the last time anyone needed their DVD players updated ?

Tying the newest HD standard into a game console is a terrible way to launch a new technology. Only Sony, king of proprietary solutions, would have even tried it. Selling every unit at a loss while it STILL being too expensive ? Great business model there Sony, bravo.

I would have Blu Ray right now if it didn't have Sony's stink all over it.


By pequin06 on 3/18/2009 12:35:38 PM , Rating: 2
Honestly, my little jab of "little girlie men" was in jest.
I have no hatred towards any system, console or those that play them.
If I had a 360 I would be using the media center extender as well.
Also on another note, I think I got more than my money's worth with the PS3 and do not regret my purchase.


Base system
By StevoLincolnite on 3/18/09, Rating: -1
RE: Base system
By TheSpaniard on 3/18/2009 12:07:14 PM , Rating: 5
um no they cant

the card reader has been gone along with BC.
already only have 2 USB ports

the system REQUIRES a HDD and bluetooth. (HDD to play 99% of games and bluetooth is remote control comunication.

wireless removal would knock off what... $5 off? yea people will give up wireless for that.


RE: Base system
By StevoLincolnite on 3/18/09, Rating: -1
RE: Base system
By lealwai on 3/18/2009 12:42:52 PM , Rating: 5
you misunderstand. you can't play most games without a hard drive. a ps3 without one is pretty much left to be a glorified blu-ray player at best


RE: Base system
By StevoLincolnite on 3/18/09, Rating: -1
RE: Base system
By PurdueRy on 3/18/2009 5:28:15 PM , Rating: 2
You don't get it...you want Sony to sell a product that doesn't do what its main function is out of the box? You think most of the population wants to install a hard drive themselves? You think it costs Sony more than it does you to buy a hard drive?

Lemme guess, you also think Dell should sell computers without hard drives...


RE: Base system
By StevoLincolnite on 3/18/2009 6:09:04 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
You don't get it...you want Sony to sell a product that doesn't do what its main function is out of the box? You think most of the population wants to install a hard drive themselves? You think it costs Sony more than it does you to buy a hard drive?


Your missing my point... It was merely used as an example, and has been blown out of proportion.

For instance they could instead install a 6gb flash disk into the 2.5" drive bay which would be potentially cheaper.

It's about cutting costs so that the console can be bought by more people in different income brackets.

quote:
Lemme guess, you also think Dell should sell computers without hard drives...


Sure, when cloud computing is prevalent.


RE: Base system
By afkrotch on 3/18/2009 9:41:50 PM , Rating: 2
Consumer pricing.

80 gig hdd - $47ish dollars
8 gig SSD - $93ish dollars

Wow, sounds like a great idea to put in much smaller ssd for users instead of a regular 80 gig hdd.

There's a reason why companies no longer make DIY laptops, why OEM PC companies sell millions of computers, and so on. Majority of ppl don't have the inclination to built their own systems.

I mean, did you build your own car or buy it from a manufacturer? There's tons of kit cars out there.


RE: Base system
By StevoLincolnite on 3/18/2009 9:52:15 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
80 gig hdd - $47ish dollars 8 gig SSD - $93ish dollars


I said "Flash Disk" not SSD, provide a firmware update or something that will make games see a flash disk as a HDD or something, Sheesh, I'm miss-understood today. :/


RE: Base system
By mmntech on 3/18/2009 12:58:20 PM , Rating: 2
A lot of games on the PS3 require mandatory hard drive installs. Besides that, anyone remember how crappy the 360 Core was? Hardly anybody bought it because the lack of a HDD crippled the system. Most people just paid extra for the Premium. As for wireless, I'd consider it a basic thing to have these days for any net capable device.

Blu-ray is what's ultimately keeping the PS3 back. It's it's biggest advantage but the cost is still quite high. I'd expect the new licensing arrangements could be used to drop the PS3's price a little. Sony needs to get it down to $349 for the system to be competitive, especially after MS scrapped the stand-alone 360 Elite. I'm not really sure what else Sony can do. It's just a bad time for luxury consumer electronics. Plus I don't think anyone seriously expected the Wii to become the next NES.

The PS3 is expensive but it has sold 20 million units, which is 7 million less than the 360. It's hardly a failure by any standard. For some reason, developers just don't seem to want to create games for the Playstation platform anymore. It's not as if lack of sales is attributing to that. The PSP has 50 million units under its belt and it uses a typical RISC processor. There seems to be a lot of excuses: it's hard to program for, it's piracy. I don't buy it though. It most likely has more to do with backroom finances. MS and Nintendo are probably giving developers a bigger cut than Sony is, or have cheaper development fees. If anything, Sony needs to do more to combat that than tinkering with their hardware.


RE: Base system
By StevoLincolnite on 3/18/2009 3:59:39 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
A lot of games on the PS3 require mandatory hard drive installs. Besides that, anyone remember how crappy the 360 Core was? Hardly anybody bought it because the lack of a HDD crippled the system. Most people just paid extra for the Premium. As for wireless, I'd consider it a basic thing to have these days for any net capable device.


Actually I would be incredibly interested if there was any solid numbers that broke down how the various iterations of the 360 and PS3 sold.

I've found allot of people buying the Arcade, you chuck a game in and you can play, I actually bought a core when they first came out and was content with a 512mb memory card for a few years, then when Microsoft did the Memory Upgrade program when the NXE was released I jumped all over it, basically getting a 20gb HDD for 20 bucks.

Contrary to popular belief you don't need a HDD to play on Xbox Live! nor to play your games, if you intend to download map packs, trailers, updates then yes it would be advisable.


RE: Base system
By TA152H on 3/19/2009 4:09:34 AM , Rating: 1
I think there are a few meaningful reasons why the PS3 isn't getting the software support.

First of all, the Cell ISN'T a typical RISC processor. Part of it is, but that's where it ends. It's got nine cores if I remember correctly, and more than that, it's asymmetric multi-core, meaning one is a POWER based processor and the other eight are not. This is typical? Where? Not only do you have to make code as parallel as possible, but you have to deal with the oddity of it being asymmetric. Threading code properly is really difficult enough, and some algorithms simply can not be done in a parallel manner (Amdahl's law) no matter how much effort you put into it. On top of this, sometimes going overly parallel causes performance drops, since there is overhead. The Cell is a bear to program by all indications, even Sony's. Strangely, they think that's a good thing, by virtue of some pretzel logic that goes something to the effect that you don't want people understanding it too well right off the bat, or games won't get progressively better during the lifetime of the machine. Specious at best.

On top of this, do you think Sony is capable of creating developer tools as well as Microsoft? By all indications, it's not been the case.

On top of this, it is expensive, and the end result is, it's the worst selling. So, you're going to put all your effort into the worst selling console, that is very difficult to program, instead of one of the other two with much larger markets and that are easier to program, and thus cost less to create? Well, that doesn't make sense right now, but certainly as more developers abandon Sony it can, because they'll have less competition and more PS3 owners will buy their product because of that. But, then, the risk is the product can go into a death spiral, and pretty much disappear, so it's risky.

I personally have no use for these toys, since they don't seem to offer much of anything a PC can't, so I don't have any bias (outside of the fact I hate Microsoft almost instinctively, and I worked for Sony and like them). I think the PS3 is a good deal, I'm just pointing out why it's not getting as much development effort as people might have expected.

I do think the PS3 is a good deal, and it worries me it doesn't sell well, because it will teach these companies to assume people are idiots (something Microsoft assumed quite well), and don't see much beyond the initial price. The PS3 has so many extras, and is a very capable machine, I think it's well worth the cost, but, the initial cost seems to be what puts people off. What else could explain the X-Box 360 outselling it, when it's historically been a totally unreliable piece of crap? It's not only unreliable, but noisy based on the remarks here, and they charge for online access. It's got to be the initial cost. So, what's this going to teach Sony? Make it seem cheap, but then rape them later on when they have the product.

If nothing else though, the PS3 did help make Blu-ray the dominant platform, and ultimately, even if it is the downfall of the PS3 because of the added cost, it still might have been worth it. Clearly, Sony new the forced inclusion would limit the PS3's acceptance, but felt it was worth it.


RE: Base system
By Reclaimer77 on 3/19/2009 8:02:26 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
. What else could explain the X-Box 360 outselling it, when it's historically been a totally unreliable piece of crap?


Superior games and a completely superior online experience ?

I can't even think of one game on the PS3 I would want to play even if I WANTED to buy one.


RE: Base system
By TimberJon on 3/18/2009 1:41:39 PM , Rating: 2
No, Sorry, Stevo.

From an ROI standpoint, you are shooting yourself in the foot, while pointing the barrel at your kneecap, if you allow the consumers to choose what peripherals they want to put into YOUR hardware.

That A) makes troubleshooting nearly impossible
and B) would probably require software redesign or something in order to support the various HDD brands, technologies, firmwares, etc...

It would be a nightmare. Great for us, but a nightmare for them and no company seeks to increase it's business risk, nor will they allow anything that MIGHT increase their risk or lower their profits. Especially not now...

Xbox 360 was power-written to allow only a 120gig max hard drive. Even if we hack it open to use our own bare drive, it really has to be a specific brand and type, basically the same make/model that M$ resells in the first place.


RE: Base system
By StevoLincolnite on 3/18/2009 4:04:27 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
From an ROI standpoint, you are shooting yourself in the foot, while pointing the barrel at your kneecap, if you allow the consumers to choose what peripherals they want to put into YOUR hardware.


That's incorrect.

The way Microsoft worked out was to have a fairly base-line system. (The Xbox).
Then you create accessories with significant mark-up so you can get a good return on investment.
For instance that little Xbox USB wireless adapter sells for $149 here, the cost for producing it would be no where near that.

It is Sony's platform they can potentially be the only manufacturer of accessories if so be, or set out a set of compatibility guidelines, plus then you have updates.

quote:
Xbox 360 was power-written to allow only a 120gig max hard drive. Even if we hack it open to use our own bare drive, it really has to be a specific brand and type, basically the same make/model that M$ resells in the first place.


To be honest I never actually knew this, great piece of information!


RE: Base system
By arazok on 3/18/09, Rating: -1
RE: Base system
By jjmcubed on 3/18/2009 8:05:23 PM , Rating: 2
I'm low income, and have no interest in buying a stolen anything. Sometimes low income is something thrust upon you. I've been low income for four years, but used to work 9-5 like the rest of folks... Don't pretend to understand every individual situation.


RE: Base system
By TimberJon on 3/18/2009 1:49:58 PM , Rating: 2
No, Sorry, Stevo.

From an ROI standpoint, you are shooting yourself in the foot, while pointing the barrel at your kneecap, if you allow the consumers to choose what peripherals they want to put into YOUR hardware.

That A) makes troubleshooting nearly impossible
and B) would probably require software redesign or something in order to support the various HDD brands, technologies, firmwares, etc...

It would be a nightmare. Great for us, but a nightmare for them and no company seeks to increase it's business risk, nor will they allow anything that MIGHT increase their risk or lower their profits. Especially not now...

Xbox 360 was power-written to allow only a 120gig max hard drive. Even if we hack it open to use our own bare drive, it really has to be a specific brand and type, basically the same make/model that M$ resells in the first place.


RE: Base system
By Nfarce on 3/18/2009 3:14:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Hence why you sell it as addons? Did you read my post? It's good for low income earners so they can grab accessories one by one when they have the money.


What's up with your infatuation with low income earners? In any event, "low income" earners have no business buying this kind of hardware anyway. The PS3 is a luxury, not a necessity like food on the table that "low income" earners struggle with. Good grief, that mentality is a large part of why this nation is in such a mess right now.

quote:
I would, I don't need wireless, and $5 bucks is better in my pocket.


If you would really miss $5 in your pocket, then maybe you need to reassess your spending (and saving) priorities too.

As for me, I paid $499 for my 60GB in the summer of '07 and got a free BD remote from Amazon and 5 free BDs. Recently I upgraded the HDD to a 320GB WD 7200RPM drive and it is now my media center where I store (and show) pictures and home videos. It also makes a great portable media center for visiting friends and relatives. Of course, the gaming and BD experience are great too.

The point here is that Sony probably already knows that nobody wants a "stripper" model of the PS3. You can buy a BD player for $150-$200 if that's all you want. Why else by a PS3? To me, it is a streaming/surfing HTPC (free of charge to access the net BTW), gaming console, BD player, and media entertainment center all in one. You just can't beat that for $400.


RE: Base system
By StevoLincolnite on 3/18/2009 4:13:26 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
What's up with your infatuation with low income earners? In any event, "low income" earners have no business buying this kind of hardware anyway. The PS3 is a luxury, not a necessity like food on the table that "low income" earners struggle with. Good grief, that mentality is a large part of why this nation is in such a mess right now.


Nothing is wrong, I'm not a low-income earner myself, but I do have allot of friends and family that are.

And which Nation? Not everyone lives in America, our "Low income" may be significantly higher for all I know.

quote:
If you would really miss $5 in your pocket, then maybe you need to reassess your spending (and saving) priorities too.


Personally I wouldn't miss $5, but think about that if you lost $5 once a day for 365 days a year, thinking "It's only $5 dollars who cares" you would have in the end lost $1825 - That's allot of money right there.

So if trying to save $5 on everything is such a bad thing, then how should I be reassessing my spending priority's when I am trying to save money on every item I buy?

quote:
The point here is that Sony probably already knows that nobody wants a "stripper" model of the PS3. You can buy a BD player for $150-$200 if that's all you want. Why else by a PS3? To me, it is a streaming/surfing HTPC (free of charge to access the net BTW), gaming console, BD player, and media entertainment center all in one. You just can't beat that for $400.


Also, Contrary to popular belief the Xbox 360 can access the internet via some pretty useful Media Center addons. Which allow you to browse the internet on the console.

Plus Xbox Live! Is free to use if you are downloading Addons, Updates, Demo's, Trailers as well, you only need to -pay- to play multi-player gaming.

quote:
You just can't beat that for $400.


I could if it was cheaper. ;) (It's $688 dollars here by the way for the base model).


RE: Base system
By Nfarce on 3/18/2009 4:45:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
So if trying to save $5 on everything is such a bad thing, then how should I be reassessing my spending priority's when I am trying to save money on every item I buy?


I see your point. I guess I wasn't clear enough in mine. Saving $5 on daily purchases (like groceries) is one thing, but how many PS3s are you going to buy? Even more to your point, I don't think many people realize how much money they dump annually into a vending machine, or eating lunch at McDonald's costs them.

Regarding what the Xbox can (and can't do), I don't want to get into that. In a perfect world, I'd have both. Suffice it to say that I do not regret purchasing the PS3, even at $499, and it has far exceeded my expectations as a centerpiece of home entertainment. The PS3 was not designed with a stripper no-frills model in mind. It is essentially a PC - and damn near weighs like one too, heh.

But back to this article's point, the Xbox is the king gaming console - it costs less and has better games. If all I wanted was a gaming system I'd probably have bought one; but the real games are on my PC ;) . Finally, PS3-only games like Warhawk, both Motorstorms, and a couple others are an absolute blast to play. Sony does need to figure out how to move these units better, that's for sure.


RE: Base system
By TheSpaniard on 3/18/2009 10:53:22 PM , Rating: 1
you cannot play games on a PS3 without a hard drive!

ok but many people would want the wireless... so now you have 2 fabs :( BIG increase in cost there for not much savings on your part

SONY did that at one point (removing wireless) and they discovered that the machine was WAY too expensive for them to not include it! fewer people bought the 20GB system than the 60GB

and anyway its all about perceived value. the system has its price set b/c of blu-ray. so all they can do is add features

more believable to me, instead of a price drop (or dropping features), would be the reintroduction of the BC + card reader + 4 USB at the $400 price point


RE: Base system
By inighthawki on 3/18/2009 12:25:27 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
wireless removal would knock off what... $5 off? yea people will give up wireless for that.

You'd be surprised how much $5 is to some people. For someone who doesn't have tons of money and saves up a long time to the luxury of a ps3 might not have or want to spend $5 here and there extra for a feature they don't need.

Also, selling the hd separately could help in multiple ways. First of all, without a hd, it still acts as a blu-ray player. Also, you can put in quite a few non-sony sata hard drives which are probably a lot cheaper than what sony charges for it. Going with the idea about about the controller, selling it separately allows people to save the $5 and get a wired controller. Making wired components then makes bluetooth optional, which would cut the cost by quite a bit ($20-$30 at least).


RE: Base system
By mofo3k on 3/18/2009 12:54:35 PM , Rating: 2
$5 off of a $400 system isn't going to cut it unless they make other cuts along with it.

As for removing the HDD, you can't. You can't play games without it and the average consumer isn't going to know how to buy a HDD to install in it themselves, plus what's the point if they sell hardware that can't play games. If it's useless out of the box, they'll just end up with a bunch of pissed off parents and grandparents who just saw a cheaper price.


RE: Base system
By StevoLincolnite on 3/18/2009 4:17:32 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
$5 off of a $400 system isn't going to cut it unless they make other cuts along with it. As for removing the HDD, you can't. You can't play games without it and the average consumer isn't going to know how to buy a HDD to install in it themselves, plus what's the point if they sell hardware that can't play games. If it's useless out of the box, they'll just end up with a bunch of pissed off parents and grandparents who just saw a cheaper price.


The removal of the HDD was just an idea so people would know where I was coming from. (I didn't think everyone would take it literally).

Still $5 for everything you buy is better in your pocket than some multi-million/billion dollar companies, regardless of the price of the device you intend to buy.


RE: Base system
By omnicronx on 3/18/2009 12:54:59 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
For someone who doesn't have tons of money and saves up a long time to the luxury of a ps3 might not have or want to spend $5 here and there extra for a feature they don't need.
No offense, but this is a terrible argument. When talking about a $400 product, $5 is not going to be a deal breaker. You may personally find it appealing, but most will not.

As for the HD, Sony cannot have a non HD model. As much as you think it might make sense, it does not. Too many games require an HD, selling a non HD model which won't be able to play most games would be a PR nightmare, and would make a lot more people angry than happy. Not packaging a controller would have the exact same effect, especially since you need a controller to play BD movies anyways.

You want a BD player, go buy a standalone. Sony needs to lower their pricing, plain and simple, or else next time around they may not have any developers at all. Sony is thinking about themselves, they don't realize that it does not matter if they are selling for a loss, if they don't regain the developer support, they might as well right off the PS4 already.

It does not make sense for developers to program for a far more complicated platform, with the smallest user base. The market in which the PS3 resides is ruled by the software market, not the hardware market, MS has sold the 360 at a loss from the beginning, and I expect they will continue to do so until all the SKU's are using all 65nm parts.


RE: Base system
By dijuremo on 3/18/2009 12:23:06 PM , Rating: 4
I believe the console can not work without a HDD. IIRC, the OS goes in the hard drive, so the lack of it will basically make the system not usable unlike the Xboxes, which do not require the HDD to run.

It seems somebody already tried to boot the console with no drive and it did not work:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=200902...


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