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Fisker Karma  (Source: Motor Authority)

The Fisker Karma makes an appearance in California.   (Source: Ethermax)
Apparently Fisker has several new models planned...

Fox News' previous commentary about Fisker Automotive may have been a bit skewed and inaccurate (Fox show hosts tried to claim Fisker was not a U.S. firm -- blatantly wrong), but Fox's latest take of Fisker is not only much more accurate, but also caught a humorous and significant gaff.  Apparently Vice President Joe Biden accidentally revealed Fisker's entire upcoming lineup -- including unannounced vehicles that Fisker indicates it wasn't exactly planning to reveal quite yet.

VP Biden tipped Fisker's hand at the official announcement ceremony for Fisker's new Delaware plant, an old GM factory which was shut down and sold through GM's bankruptcy holding.  Speaking to reporters, Fox News notes that Biden said, "Imagine when this factory, when the floor we’re standing on right now is making 100,000 plug-in hybrid sedans, coupes and crossovers every single year."

The only problem was that the coupes and crossovers were supposed to be a surprise announcement for a later date.  However, good secrets seldom seem to be able to be kept and the Vice President unwittingly let the cat out of the bag.  Interviewed after the announcement, company founder and CEO Henrik Fisker commented, "[Laughter] He definitely told what our product plans are."

Aside from the leak, plenty more juicy details were revealed officially in the interview session following the announcements.  Fisker revealed that the first vehicles to come from the plant will be the previously announced sedan, which is dubbed Nina.  Fisker is targeting a price of
$40,000 for the vehicle after state and federal tax credits are taken into account, similar to the expected sticker for the 2011 Chevy Volt.  Production will start in 2012, and the vehicle will recycle the sporty powertrain from Fisker's flagship electric sports sedan, Karma.

Reportedly, the stylings of the Nina, named after the ship Christopher Columbus used in his triumphant return to Europe, are very attractive for a mass-market EV.  Government officials were briefed on the design and apparently were impressed, something that helped them reach the decision to grant the company a $528.7M USD DOE loan to buy and retool the shuttered plant.

Describes Mr. Fisker, "
It’s going to have a very exciting radical design.  We actually just showed it to the vice president of the United States of America and he said ‘it looks like a four-door Ferrari, I can’t believe it’s only going to be $40,000.’" 

The Karma will begin production next year at Valmet in Finland and will be imported into the U.S. and sold for approximately $80,000 after tax credits.  Then in 2016 a second generation Karma will be launched, and production will shift to the retooled Delaware plant, according to Mr. Fisker.  Mr. Fisker confirmed that the first generation Karma will get 67 mpg and travel 50 miles in all-electric mode.  He says some drivers will be able to reach 100 mpg or more, depending on how they drive.

Mr. Fisker also revealed that the Karma will feature "stealth" and "sport" modes which allow the user to manually switch on or off the gas engine for more performance, something not known to be offered in the Chevy Volt.  Even once the battery is depleted, Mr. Fisker states that the gas engine is almost equally efficient at delivering power to the electric motors as the battery system.

A prototype Karma was glimpsed at the
California's Laguna Seca raceway, running laps.  That has been the vehicle's only live appearance so far, outside of auto shows.  No journalist has yet taken the intriguing electric sports sedan out for a spin -- yet.


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Hey Joe, who killd JFK?
By Lord 666 on 10/30/09, Rating: 0
RE: Hey Joe, who killd JFK?
By slawless on 10/30/2009 8:13:21 AM , Rating: 5
I am from Delaware. The only good thing to come out of the last election, is that Biden is no longer our senator.


RE: Hey Joe, who killd JFK?
By mdogs444 on 10/30/2009 8:34:25 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
While I don't know Joe personally, family friend sees him everyday. That person says Joe is a decent and genuine person and true patriot.

While I don't know him personally either, that doesn't keep me from thinking he's an absolute moron. Anyone who says we need to keep piling up more debt, spending money we don't have, to keep from going broke....well, they are definitely on the top of the Darwin Award list.


RE: Hey Joe, who killd JFK?
By mcnabney on 10/30/2009 11:56:05 AM , Rating: 2
I don't know about you, but I am kind of enjoying Biden as VP. He says all kinds of stupid things. From little stuff like this to saying that Obama was very clean back on the campaign trail. He just doesn't know when to shut up.
Contrast that to our last VP. You know, the illegal leaks, wiretapping, fabricating our reason for war, torture, shooting his hunting buddy... I would pick the accidental comedian any day.


RE: Hey Joe, who killd JFK?
By Dorkyman on 10/30/2009 12:16:17 PM , Rating: 5
I don't understand the white-hot hatred of Cheney (or W, for that matter) by some. To me he sounds like a logical, take-charge guy with experience; exactly the kind of guy I would want to run things.

Remember EVERYONE honestly believed Saddam had WMDs. It wasn't some fabricated plot by an evil warmonger Cheney. And if you truly believe waterboarding and playing Zamfir music is "torture" in the sense that ripping out eyeballs and entrails is, then I suggest you need a bit of a recalibration.

Anyway, every time I hear him speak I admire him. Same goes for other members of his family, who seem to have a way to cut through the typical politician's Bullsh*t.

As for Biden, aside from not agreeing with his policies in general, he seems to be an okay guy. Maybe a bit too verbose. Don't care much for his narcissistic Prez.


RE: Hey Joe, who killd JFK?
By BZDTemp on 10/30/09, Rating: -1
RE: Hey Joe, who killd JFK?
By Spuke on 10/30/2009 1:49:09 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
I am not sure what is worse Fox News or those believing their every word!
I don't know what's worse, wholly believing ANY organization (Fox, CNBC, all of them) with an agenda, or going in a public forum and stating in front of God and everyone that you are a sheep. LOL! Pull your head out! They are ALL full of sh!t! They all mix lies with half truths.

News = Entertainment. No more, no less. It's about ads and ratings. All Fox is doing is exploiting the conservative niche (if I'd though of it, I'd do it too) since most "news" companies have been traditionally liberal. I only watch the TV news because a co-worker likes to watch TV at work. I only watch the local, morning stuff when at home, get other news from the internet, and listen to a couple of talk radio broadcasts when I'm driving to work.

I prefer just the talk radio because it's mostly about state and local stuff and the hosts are not registered Repubs or Dems (although they do vote).


RE: Hey Joe, who killd JFK?
By BZDTemp on 10/31/09, Rating: -1
RE: Hey Joe, who killd JFK?
By mikefarinha on 11/2/2009 10:25:52 AM , Rating: 2
You're a nimrod.

The The Brits are taxed to support the BBC so if you think the BBC has anything other than a pro-government slant then you're a tool... a useful idiot.


RE: Hey Joe, who killd JFK?
By nofranchise on 11/3/2009 11:16:03 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
by mikefarinha on November 2, 2009 at 10:25 AM You're a nimrod. The The Brits are taxed to support the BBC so if you think the BBC has anything other than a pro-government slant then you're a tool... a useful idiot.


You sir know nothing about how the BBC or a lot of other public broadcasting networks in Europe work!
Shows on the BBC routinely criticize, joke about and ridicule the government!!! (Top Gear e.g.)

In my home country Denmark, the government constantly whine that the public broadcasting network, Denmarks Radio, is socialist and anti-government.

I know. It must be difficult to understand. But outside the US, critical, objective - TAX PAID - news is possible.

Of course they make mistakes as well. Of course sometimes it is biased. But that is true for all media outlets.

Don't call others useful idiots when you don't know what you're talking about. Who's using you?


RE: Hey Joe, who killd JFK?
By MamiyaOtaru on 10/31/2009 4:41:17 AM , Rating: 2
RE: Hey Joe, who killd JFK?
By Fallen Kell on 11/1/2009 12:17:48 PM , Rating: 2
Every quote after 2001 was made from bad and fabricated information that was fed to the House and Senate. That fact has already been proven time and again. Of course if I was going off the "evidence" which was showed, I would have supported the action in Iraq as well. We are talking about one of the ONLY powers in the world to use chemical and biological warfare since it was recognized in World War I as an extremely cruel method of warfare which indiscriminately attacks innocent civilians (possibly more-so as the military personnel are at least given basic protective measures like chemical suits, and gas masks).

As a result of Saddam's known past use of chemical and biological agents during his war with Iran in the 1980's, you could only conclude that he would use them again in the future. Then all that is needed is to fabricate evidence that he is creating and stock-piling these types of weapons in order to get support to attack, which was done by President Bush and/or his advisers and/or intelligence agencies who had their own agendas which they were playing out. All of it may simply have been a stunt to get more funding for an agency or program.

I can easily see an intelligence group filtering their current findings to say that they do not know if he has WMD's, but has a known capability for producing them. Or to say that they believe that he may have WMDs, and do not know what or how many, but if you give us more funding we could find out... Then when that simple power play for funding exploded into a call for war, it was too late to change the intelligence report, as everyone involved in it would have been fired, and jailed. Thus you have the mess we are still in now, only that we now at least know that the "evidence" was fabricated.


RE: Hey Joe, who killd JFK?
By borismkv on 10/31/2009 3:23:54 PM , Rating: 3
Have you ever read the 1991 cease fire agreement that Sadam signed when we kicked his rump out of Kuwait? The only part of that agreement that he *didn't* break was manufacturing WMDs. By the way, the fact that the 1991 conflict ended with a "cease fire" means that we were still technically (and legally) at war with Iraq.


RE: Hey Joe, who killd JFK?
By just4U on 11/1/2009 11:08:36 AM , Rating: 3
Not only that, if people look back had the coalition followed thru and done back in 91 like they should have much of what we see today could have been avoided. There is absolutely no question that the US would have entered Iraq again at some point anyway .. it was just a matter of when.

It's a damn shame to because the US and it's allies would have alot more friends in the middle east now if they'd just finished what was started. Ah well.. no one can see the future I guess.


RE: Hey Joe, who killd JFK?
By Iaiken on 10/30/2009 2:48:33 PM , Rating: 1
Truth from These Podia:
Summary of a Study of Strategic Influence, Perception Management, Strategic Information Warfare and Strategic Psychological Operations in Gulf II

Sam Gardiner
Colonel, USAF (Retired)

Perhaps you should read it and re-evaluate your opinion:

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/politics/whispers/doc...

The author has taught strategy and military operations at the National War College, Air War College and Naval War College. He was recently a visiting scholar at the Swedish
Defence College.

Synopsis: The Bush & Blair administrations engaged in a strategic influence campaign of using false information and the media to sway the public into supporting a war that, given actual facts, nobody would approve of.

This is not the only such memo from members of the government, military and intelligence communities.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB207/inde...
http://thepriceofloyalty.ronsuskind.com/thebushfil...
http://www.judicialwatch.org/iraqi-oil-maps.shtml

Additionally, the Downing Street Memo offers up proof from high up within the government of the UK that they knew the intelligence was being fixed to garner support for the war.

quote:
C [Foreign Secretary Jack Straw] reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route


Memo as published in the Times:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article38...

Congratulations, victory over Iraq was also a victory over democracy. Gulf War 2 was imminent, 9-11 and WMD's simply expedited the process by allowing them to push an approving population and an unwilling congress to act in the military interests of big oil.

If you can read all of the above and still think that the actions of the administration (including Cheyney) is anything less than criminal, then you need go crawl back under your rock and leave the world to the free thinkers.


RE: Hey Joe, who killd JFK?
By conquistadorst on 10/30/2009 3:38:31 PM , Rating: 2
A "strategic influence campaign" is all around you. It's called marketing. It's what's done to persuade the masses from A to Z. Business, consumer products, entertainment, politics, public opinion, and yes even war. I guarantee you every organized operating entity currently out there has an agenda/strategy/campaign on how they can better manipulate you.


RE: Hey Joe, who killd JFK?
By Iaiken on 10/30/09, Rating: 0
RE: Hey Joe, who killd JFK?
By randomposter on 10/30/2009 4:56:44 PM , Rating: 1
Come on, be honest with yourself then, critical thinking is a vanishing skill among the vast majority of Americans and you know it. The sooner you adapt your behaviour and expectations to this reality the better.


RE: Hey Joe, who killd JFK?
By Spuke on 10/30/2009 5:54:52 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
This is not the only such memo from members of the government, military and intelligence communities.
I'm confused on the memo you linked to. There's no information in it. What are we to take from that? Also, the other references you mentioned. Are those sites you listed unbiased or fair? Are they You are aware that any blog site with a specific agenda will cite "facts" to support their points of view.


RE: Hey Joe, who killd JFK?
By Smokey48 on 11/1/2009 11:09:04 AM , Rating: 2
The jamokes who are still trying to blame everything happening now on the previous administration are the same jamokes who worship the ground the 0bama/Biden clowns walk on.

These quotes...

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp

...show conclusively that politicians both left and right all loudly supported the Iraq invasion.

It's a new administration now, and 0bama will sink or swim based on how he handles it. So far he's not doing too well, bowing down to foreign dictators and apologizing to the world for America.

Blaming Bush at this stage of the game is just an excuse for 0bama's failures.


RE: Hey Joe, who killd JFK?
By Mint on 11/1/2009 12:33:49 PM , Rating: 1
Did they have much of a choice? The Bush administration did the "marketing", convincing the people who were angry after 9/11 to invade, and they in turn pushed their senators to keep going. Anyone who dissented was labeled a traitor or a weak leader by the right wing media, and as I recall (was in Canada back then) even the so called "liberal" US stations like CNN were fairly pro-war.

The Democrats lost a very close election, new that they couldn't do anything to stop the war, and had their constituents asking them to invade. Why wouldn't they? You expect politicians to defy the public with their principles, putting them ahead of their career?

The Bush administration started the war. Like most presidents, Bush was a great leader, but used that skill to lead the people to a horrible decision. Blaming anyone else is retarded.


By mmcdonalataocdotgov on 11/2/2009 7:38:27 AM , Rating: 2
The reason we thought they had WMD's was because we gave them the technology and some starter weapons when they were our allies against Iran. So naturally we thought they still had them, or some vestiges of them. They did use the gas to kill the Kurds. But they disposed of them before we could find them.


RE: Hey Joe, who killd JFK?
By mattclary on 10/30/2009 8:34:51 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
That person says Joe is a decent and genuine person and true patriot.


I'm sure the same could be said of Dan Quail, but they didn't cut him any slack.


RE: Hey Joe, who killd JFK?
By Lord 666 on 10/30/2009 11:04:44 AM , Rating: 2
Unlike Dan, Joe has been in politics for 35 years before becoming VP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_biden versus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Quale

Not even close in comparison career-wise.


RE: Hey Joe, who killd JFK?
By marvdmartian on 10/30/2009 11:55:45 AM , Rating: 3
I don't think he was comparing their careers. More likely, he was making a reference to the fact that Joe Biden is a moron incapable of speaking without jamming his foot (or feet) in his mouth, much like Dan Quayle did back in the days of Bush Senior.


RE: Hey Joe, who killd JFK?
By Ristogod on 10/30/2009 9:26:19 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
That person says Joe is a decent and genuine person and true patriot.


His actions say otherwise. Even if he is "Genuine" and has the best of intentions, his thoughtless and careless tactics are doing more harm than good.


Green car
By Schadenfroh on 10/30/2009 9:24:55 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Fisker is targeting a price of $40,000 for the vehicle after state and federal tax credits are taken into account, similar to the expected sticker for the 2011 Chevy Volt.


So, when are we going to have a Volt like car for < $30,000 that does not rely on government subsidies to keep the price down? The price of the batteries the main thing holding it back?

I would like being able to charge up at the apartment, much more convient. However, I would need the premium to pay for itself in fuel savings over a reasonable amount of time.




RE: Green car
By xprojected on 10/30/2009 10:20:40 AM , Rating: 3
"So, when are we going to have a Volt like car for < $30,000 that does not rely on government subsidies to keep the price down? The price of the batteries the main thing holding it back?"

Two words: Chinese batteries.


RE: Green car
By Plugers on 10/30/2009 11:30:53 AM , Rating: 2
While I have excess Gov spending, if the biggest cost is batteries why don't they take the subsidy and spend it on battery research into a high capacity (with high charge/discharge rates) made with common materials and is capable of being produced with somewhat inexpensive means.

Then it would help many industries.

On that note I believe we are stupid for getting away from manufacturing in the US, intelligence can be outsourced much more easily than a company making a physical product.


RE: Green car
By brybir on 10/30/2009 12:20:03 PM , Rating: 2
People say we have "moved away" from manufacturing but its not true. We take incidental examples as proof that we do not have manufacturing here anymore.

Take a look at: http://www.bls.gov/fls/chartbook2009/chart5.9.pdf

The United States is far and away the world's largest manufacturing country.

Then take a look at:
http://www.bls.gov/fls/chartbook2009/chart3.7.pdf

Then, with those in mind, take a look at:
http://www.bls.gov/fls/chartbook2009/chart5.4.pdf

So we cant really say that the United States has moved out of manufacturing, as the US is still by and large the world's largest manufacturing economy. Maybe this will not be true in 20 years, but it will be true for the near future.

As to your comment about exporting intelligence I think that is just your perception. What is harder to export in your opinion: the intelligence of thousands of engineers needed to build intel's newest i5/i7 processors or the knowledge ofability to build a foundry facility to produce the chips themselves? Not an easy choice in any means but my bet would be on that it is harder to export the intelligence than locating a physical plant.


RE: Green car
By Spuke on 10/30/2009 2:01:20 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
People say we have "moved away" from manufacturing but its not true. We take incidental examples as proof that we do not have manufacturing here anymore.
LOL! See, those with agendas have once again clouded the truth. You have just proven this by posting FACTS about the US manufacturing capability. Why are we lead to believe our manufacturing base is non-existant when we CLEARLY


RE: Green car
By Spuke on 10/30/2009 2:04:36 PM , Rating: 1
<Sigh>Ok, let's try this again.

LOL! See, those with agendas have once again clouded the truth. You have just proven this by posting FACTS about the US manufacturing capability. Why are we lead to believe our manufacturing base is non-existent when we CLEARLY still lead? News = Joke. Polarization leads to an ignorant public. We really need to find this information for ourselves. Thanks to the OP for finding and posting this information.


LOL really?
By kattanna on 10/30/09, Rating: 0
RE: LOL really?
By Hardin on 10/30/2009 11:49:43 AM , Rating: 4
Go and watch MSNBC and tell me it isn't skewed and inaccurate.


RE: LOL really?
By ClownPuncher on 10/30/2009 7:01:27 PM , Rating: 2
It sucks that everyones response to innacurate/spun information is "Well, they do it too!". It reminds me of having children.


RE: LOL really?
By KCjoker on 10/30/2009 10:13:20 PM , Rating: 2
Well if everyone blasted MSNBC for it like they do Fox then yea you'd have a great arguement.


RE: LOL really?
By nofranchise on 11/3/2009 11:24:29 AM , Rating: 2
Have you considered that the reason everybody is blasting Fox, is because they ARE more skewed?

Every time I stumble on Fox News, I think it's a sketch about how NOT to do news. They break every journalistic principle in almost every show!!

Not that it's watchers care I guess. The same people are ready to rate me down and defend it as soon as I press Post Comment. Because they agree with the direction Fox is skewing/spinning/biasing their coverage.


4 Doors does not a sportscar make
By NaughtyMonkey on 10/30/2009 8:21:35 AM , Rating: 2
The Karma (as pictured) has four doors. It is quite obviously not a sportscar, although you label it as such twice. Are you maybe confusing it with the Tesla Roadster?




RE: 4 Doors does not a sportscar make
By boobot on 10/30/2009 8:26:46 AM , Rating: 2
Sports sedan I suppose which some people will just interpret as sportscar. Go figure!


By Bateluer on 10/30/2009 9:34:36 AM , Rating: 2
Looks pretty sporty to me.


RE: 4 Doors does not a sportscar make
By Mint on 11/1/2009 12:17:05 PM , Rating: 2
What do you call a Porsche Panamera? Or a BMW M3 sedan?

A Nissan GTR is a sports coupe and the Karma is a sports sedan, but both qualify as sports cars in my book.


Not much effort to cover up the "secret"
By randomposter on 10/30/2009 8:19:27 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Interviewed after the announcement, company founder and CEO Henrik Fisker commented, "[Laughter] He definitely told what our product plans are."

If the CEO were genuinely concerned about the slip, he could easily have responded with something like "I'm sure the Vice President was just speaking in general terms - the kinds of cars common across the automotive industry."

I'm just as inclined to believe this was a planned leak - something done to create some buzz around Fisker.




By SublimeSimplicity on 10/30/2009 8:27:38 AM , Rating: 2
I would agree, except that "planned" and "Biden" play together like oil and water.


By Bateluer on 10/30/2009 10:36:36 AM , Rating: 3
I wish Biden had a Twitter account. His Tweets would be priceless.


This Site Sucks
By estarkey7 on 10/30/2009 11:13:44 AM , Rating: 3
The content it relatively good, but the political commentary litters every article on the site. I can't stomach it anymore, and refuse to read the site further.




RE: This Site Sucks
By randomposter on 10/30/2009 3:25:22 PM , Rating: 2
Two words:

/.


RE: This Site Sucks
By deeznuts on 10/30/2009 4:14:20 PM , Rating: 2
Curly Bill, "Well ... Bye!"


Where do I go for my sweetheart loan?
By klstay on 10/30/2009 8:49:24 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Government officials were briefed on the design and apparently were impressed, something that helped them reach the decision to grant the company a $528.7M USD DOE loan to buy and retool the shuttered plant.


Well, if government officials were impressed then clearly this is a winner! If they had a strong business plan why did they need to use tax dollars? One would think such a slam dunk guaranteed winner of a company could have easily secured private financing. Hmmmmm......




By DougF on 10/30/2009 9:53:50 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
One would think such a slam dunk guaranteed winner of a company could have easily secured private financing.


One would think that Fisker would go where the cost of money is cheapest, currently the US Government's loans under TARP. Welcome to the new, managed, free market system where banks aren't needed. Now the Salary Czar can impose salary limits, the Employment Czar will "review" all employment applications, and the Paper Czar can restrict everyone at Fisker to three pieces of toilet paper per sitting.


Leak? Not really.
By xprojected on 10/30/2009 10:41:50 AM , Rating: 2
So a new car company is buying a plant, with the intent to make a bigger variety of cars in the future? Not exactly a company secret, here. Tesla has also divulged plans to make other types of cars. I think Fox News just likes to take what VP Biden says as "oh boy, just another one of those crazy Biden gaffes!".




RE: Leak? Not really.
By aapocketz on 10/30/2009 12:39:44 PM , Rating: 2
thank you, this is the only comment worth making...

quote:
Imagine when this factory, when the floor we’re standing on right now is making 100,000 plug-in hybrid sedans, coupes and crossovers every single year


what a buffoon! Next he will be revealing Mcdonalds secret plan to build more mcdonalds.


At least
By Hardin on 10/30/2009 11:48:28 AM , Rating: 2
At least Biden didn't spill national secrets again.




RE: At least
By jsonc on 10/30/2009 8:13:16 PM , Rating: 2
he'll be doing that for years to come


Karma
By eddieroolz on 11/2/2009 12:47:17 AM , Rating: 2
I don't know about the others, but I really like the look of the Fisker Karma!




The REAL price
By Indianapolis on 11/2/2009 8:26:41 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Fisker is targeting a price of $40,000 for the vehicle after state and federal tax credits are taken into account


Is that the way we're gonna play it now? Okay, fair enough, but how 'bout when we talk about prices on things, we talk about the price with ALL THE TAXES INCLUDED.

If people actually knew how much we pay in taxes for everything we buy, there would be public outrage. And I'm not just talking about consumer sales taxes. I'm talking about all the taxes at all levels of production.




Interesting...
By bradmshannon on 10/30/09, Rating: -1
RE: Interesting...
By Boze on 10/30/2009 8:24:20 AM , Rating: 5
Microsoft outsources all kinds of tasks to foreign countries.

Nissan has a manufacturing plant in Canton, Mississippi.

And the list goes on almost indefinitely.

A company doesn't need to have every single arm of operations in America, to be American.


RE: Interesting...
By mdogs444 on 10/30/09, Rating: -1
RE: Interesting...
By randomposter on 10/30/2009 8:55:32 AM , Rating: 4
Do you have any idea how many US corporations rip off the taxpayer by diverting profits to sham entities located in offshore tax havens?


RE: Interesting...
By deeznuts on 10/30/09, Rating: -1
RE: Interesting...
By knutjb on 10/30/2009 9:49:18 PM , Rating: 2
Very true look at the rich tax in NY. They are moving out, it doesn't come any simpler than that. Lower taxes, simple tax code things become less convoluted=jobs. Yes it is that simple.

BTW What's up with the cheap shot at FOX starting off this story? FOX really had nothing to do with the content of the story.


RE: Interesting...
By Reclaimer77 on 10/30/2009 9:56:59 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
BTW What's up with the cheap shot at FOX starting off this story? FOX really had nothing to do with the content of the story.


It's Jason Mick. It's what he does...


RE: Interesting...
By knutjb on 10/30/2009 9:56:07 PM , Rating: 2
Who wrote the tax laws? Politicians, use your vote carefully. Companies only take advantage of what the politicians write. Simple tax code, low tax rates that money comes back on shore because companies know where their money is going. The end result is higher revenues. Taxes aren't simple math.


RE: Interesting...
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 10/30/2009 9:11:46 AM , Rating: 5
Fisker's headquarters is in California (IIRC). It just plans to build the Karma in Finland.

No different than Ford being headquartered in the U.S. and building in Canada, Mexico, Australia, UK, etc...


RE: Interesting...
By mdogs444 on 10/30/2009 9:29:20 AM , Rating: 2
I wasn't commenting directly on Fisker. I was merely giving my opinion based on the following statement from the poster:

quote:
A company doesn't need to have every single arm of operations in America, to be American.


RE: Interesting...
By Oregonian2 on 10/30/2009 2:03:13 PM , Rating: 3
On a more general way, it brings up the point as to exactly what makes a company that of a particular country when such things are such of a mess.

It's not unusual for a US company to be bought out by another country's company. So is it now foreign? Sometimes it's later resold back to an American-HQ company, it's it American again, even with the only change back and forth being where a handful of bigwigs are located?

Some companies are clearly of a particular country, but when seeing on products things like "Designed and Engineered in California and built in China", I'm not sure about the country the company "represents". What if the stock ownership of that company is yet in a third country? :-)


RE: Interesting...
By Lord 666 on 10/30/2009 10:53:14 AM , Rating: 2
DeLorean attempted to build their cars in Ireland... it was a complete financial disaster.

Fisker really lucked out picking up that GM plant on the ultra cheap.


RE: Interesting...
By Spuke on 10/30/2009 1:02:24 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
Fisker is targeting a price of $40,000 for the vehicle after state and federal tax credits are taken into account, similar to the expected sticker for the 2011 Chevy Volt.
Why are you comparing the price of a car that costs $40k AFTER tax credits to a car that costs $40k BEFORE tax credits?


RE: Interesting...
By acronos on 10/30/2009 3:03:32 PM , Rating: 2
Where did you get your information? The information I've seen says otherwise:

http://gm-volt.com/2009/09/14/gm-launches-online-s...


RE: Interesting...
By Spuke on 10/30/2009 4:49:14 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Where did you get your information? The information I've seen says otherwise:
You just supported my statement. The Volt is supposed to be ~$40k BEFORE the tax credit. The Fisker Nina (or whatever) is $40k AFTER the tax credit.


RE: Interesting...
By Xavier434 on 10/30/09, Rating: -1
RE: Interesting...
By mdogs444 on 10/30/2009 9:58:56 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
If you disapprove of any politician dodging taxes legally

Daschle, Geithner, Solis, Killefer, Ron Kirk

None of these were legally. Look, I pay my taxes because I have to. I fully expect people in the government, especially ones that are in charge of the IRS, to abide by the tax laws.

I don't approve of any person or corporate being an illegal tax cheat. None of these were "legal loopholes", they just didn't report it on purpose.


RE: Interesting...
By Xavier434 on 10/30/2009 10:59:01 AM , Rating: 2
Ok, just checking. A lot of people frown more upon politicians that do it than they do individual or corporate entities that do it. ;-)


RE: Interesting...
By conquistadorst on 10/30/2009 3:26:23 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Ok, just checking. A lot of people frown more upon politicians that do it than they do individual or corporate entities that do it. ;-)

And why would that be an unreasonable expectation? Policeman shouldn't commit crimes, Fireman shouldn't be burning your house down, doctors shouldn't make you ill, banks shouldn't steal your money, priests & teachers shouldn't be pedophiles, and lawmakers shouldn't be law breakers.

So again, explain to me why would it be such an irrational expectation for people holding positions of responsibility to be held to higher standards regarding the responsibilities they have been assigned? It's perfectly natural for there to be an uproar when people fail to fulfill duties the "public" have entrusted them with.


RE: Interesting...
By Pneumothorax on 10/30/2009 12:41:15 PM , Rating: 5
Not to mention a proletariat like me who decided to cheat on his taxes would end up spending more time than jail than a FAMOUS french/polish director who raped a 13 year old. Our politico tax cheats like Rangel/Giethner get to be appointed in nice positions of power.


RE: Interesting...
By Iaiken on 10/30/2009 10:35:40 AM , Rating: 4
The Karma is only being built in Finland as the result of planning that long predates the current administration and the DOE loans that are now being used to re-tool and re-open closed GM plants.

The company was in a position where they couldn't afford to build a new plant and the only place that had the necessary pre-existing facilities and skilled workers was Finland, so that's where they went. The company that is manufacturing the Karma had an already existing facility and staff that had the expertise that Fisker needed all at a price Fisker could afford.

The fact that they looked in the US and couldn't find anyone with the capability or the capacity should tell you a lot about the state of industrial America.


RE: Interesting...
By Hare on 10/30/2009 11:15:55 AM , Rating: 3
The Valmet factory has been making Porsches and Saabs so it's a pretty good choice.


RE: Interesting...
By siuol11 on 10/30/2009 4:47:43 PM , Rating: 1
This is nothing new... GM, Ford, ect. have been doing it for a while. It's not because we don't have the capability to do it, it just costs more than doing it in a 2nd or 3rd world country (surprise).
Also this level of financial intervention doesn't even come close to what the government has been doing for Tesla Motors- at least half a billion and counting.


RE: Interesting...
By bernardl on 10/30/2009 8:04:49 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
This is nothing new... GM, Ford, ect. have been doing it for a while. It's not because we don't have the capability to do it, it just costs more than doing it in a 2nd or 3rd world country (surprise).


Pretty hilarious comment...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_...

Finland is ahead of the US in development and is the fastest improving country in the top 20... :-)

Cheers,
Bernard


RE: Interesting...
By nofranchise on 11/3/2009 11:32:47 AM , Rating: 3
Hehe. Nice one Bernard.

Yeah.

Finland. The 3rd world country which gave the world Nokia.

Come on guys. At least make an effort not to come off stupid. It's right there on wikipedia! In English! :)


"What would I do? I'd shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders." -- Michael Dell, after being asked what to do with Apple Computer in 1997














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