backtop

Print E-mail del.icio.us 239 comment(s) - last by RMTimeKill.. on Jan 11 at 5:42 PM
Another day, another studio claims exclusivity in the HD format wars

In the latest saga in the long-running HD DVD vs. Blu-ray battle, Warner Bros. Entertainment has struck a blow to the former camp. The company announced today that it will soon become Blu-ray exclusive with regards to high-definition DVD titles.

According to Warner Bros., the move to support only Blu-ray is a strategic decision aimed at giving consumers what they want.

"The window of opportunity for high-definition DVD could be missed if format confusion continues to linger," said Warner Bros. Chairman and CEO Barry Meyer. "We believe that exclusively distributing in Blu-ray will further the potential for mass market success and ultimately benefit retailers, producers, and most importantly, consumers."

According to the Warner Bros. press release, Warner Home Video will stop releasing HD DVD movies in late May 2008. To add salt to HD DVD’s wounds, Warner Home Video is going to stagger the launches of further HD DVD titles until the late-May cut off period -- standard DVD and Blu-ray movies will be released first, then the HD DVD titles will be released after a "short window."

"A two-format landscape has led to consumer confusion and indifference toward high definition, which has kept the technology from reaching mass adoption and becoming the important revenue stream that it can be for the industry," added Warner Bros. Home Entertainment Group President Kevin Tsujihara. "Consumers have clearly chosen Blu-ray, and we believe that recognizing this preference is the right step in making this great home entertainment experience accessible to the widest possible audience."

The move by Warner Bros. comes four months after Paramount and DreamWorks announced their decision to go HD DVD exclusive. The move prompted "Transformers" executive produce Michael Bay to go on a rampage. "I want people to see my movies in the best formats possible. For them to deny people who have Blu-ray sucks! They were progressive by having two formats. No Transformers 2 for me," exclaimed Bay in late August.

Bay later stepped up his "war talk" in early December and accused Microsoft of sabotaging both HD DVD and Blu-ray. "That is why Microsoft is handing out $100 million dollar checks to studios just embrace the HD DVD and not the leading, and superior Blu Ray," said Bay in December. "They want confusion in the market until they perfect the digital downloads. Time will tell and you will see the truth."

Updated 1/4/2008
Toshiba has formally responded to the Warner Bros./Blu-ray announcement:

Toshiba is quite surprised by Warner Bros.' decision to abandon HD DVD in favor of Blu-ray, despite the fact that there are various contracts in place between our companies concerning the support of HD DVD. As central members of the DVD Forum, we have long maintained a close partnership with Warner Bros. We worked closely together to help standardize the first-generation DVD format as well as to define and shape HD DVD as its next-generation successor.

We were particularly disappointed that this decision was made in spite of the significant momentum HD DVD has gained in the US market as well as other regions in 2007. HD DVD players and PCs have outsold Blu-ray in the US market in 2007.

We will assess the potential impact of this announcement with the other HD DVD partner companies and valuate potential next steps. We remain firm in our belief that HD DVD is the format best suited to the wants and needs of the consumer.

Comments     Threshold


This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled
Clearly chosen ????
By wempa on 1/4/2008 4:27:54 PM , Rating: 4
I'd like to know how he came to the conclusion that consumers have "clearly chosen" Blu-Ray. 99% of people don't have a clue about the next generation after DVD. The other 1% argue back and forth about HD DVD vs. Blu Ray and the latter currently has a slight edge. I don't agree that consumers have clearly decided.




RE: Clearly chosen ????
By FITCamaro on 1/4/2008 4:32:07 PM , Rating: 3
Don't worry. Even if HD-DVD does go away, mass adoption of Blu-ray would still be years away considering the cheapest upcoming Blu-ray players are still a few hundred dollars.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By wempa on 1/4/2008 4:46:23 PM , Rating: 2
True. I just get a kick out of the BS claims they make. I was actually pulling for HD-DVD even though my wife won a free PS3 in a poker tournament. So, I'm actually better off if BR wins.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By fifolo on 1/4/2008 9:02:04 PM , Rating: 5
In my day, we'd win our wives in poker tournaments.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By Bigjee on 1/5/2008 8:34:11 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
In my day, we'd win our wives in poker tournaments.


Yeh everything is high tech nowadays isn't it.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By logaldinho on 1/7/2008 4:26:23 AM , Rating: 2
well, its going to be interesting for the studio if HDDVD either wins out or gets a split decision with BR. I dont expect toshiba to be friendly on the licensing in the future to those that betrayed an obvious existing relationship.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By BansheeX on 1/4/2008 6:44:24 PM , Rating: 3
Mass adoption always was years away. I've been trying to explain it to people on this forum for a long time. People need a larger selection of titles, HD televisions, and a real incentive to upgrade all the DVDs they already bought. That's why the price difference between the players themselves didn't really matter. A $100 player still means you're going to have rebuy many of your movies to see the benefit. The PS3 continues to push this niche format into households by the millions as a bonus while Microsoft elected to keep it separate. It helped the 360 get a headstart over the PS3 but ultimately ended up killing HD-DVDs chances. The interesting part is what effect Blu-Ray's victory will have on PS3 sales in the long-run. It can only help them, that's for sure. This is a great day for blu-ray and PS3 fans alike.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By Spuke on 1/4/2008 6:48:54 PM , Rating: 2
Why do you need to rebuy DVD's? The upconverter works just fine. I don't plan to rebuy anything except MAYBE The Matrix Trilogy. Other than that, I'm keeping all my DVD's.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By natebsi on 1/4/2008 6:56:49 PM , Rating: 4
For newer titles, there is no comparison between HD/BD and an upconverted dvd. None.
I would say, though, that "need to rebuy" is a bit much.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By FITCamaro on 1/6/2008 3:41:48 PM , Rating: 3
It doesn't matter. Just because a better version is out, doesn't mean you have to rebuy everything. When the day comes that I do get an HD player, I'm not going to rebuy all my DVDs. Sure certain movies I will like the complete Star Wars trilogy. But most of it will stay on DVD.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By EntreHoras on 1/4/08, Rating: -1
RE: Clearly chosen ????
By BansheeX on 1/4/2008 7:21:05 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Why do you need to rebuy DVD's? The upconverter works just fine. I don't plan to rebuy anything except MAYBE The Matrix Trilogy. Other than that, I'm keeping all my DVD's.


You have to rebuy DVDs if you want to watch an HD movie, even if you have an HD player. You do realize that they make upconverting DVD players that are cheaper than HD-DVD players, right? If you aren't going HD, why did you pay more for an HD-DVD player? Your rebuttal makes no sense.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By BansheeX on 1/4/2008 7:26:50 PM , Rating: 2
Clarification: "rebuy movies."


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By Farfignewton on 1/5/2008 1:41:31 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
You have to rebuy DVDs if you want to watch an HD movie, even if you have an HD player.


No, I only have to repurchase my dvd movies if I want to watch THOSE movies in H.D. I seriously doubt most people who have or will buy an H.D. player intend to re-purchase more than a few of their particular favorites in H.D. The DVDs I have are fine, but from now on it's H.D. for me.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By pcbean on 1/7/2008 10:50:46 AM , Rating: 2
Years? Really? Considering that Both Blu-ray and HDDVD players have fallen over 50% in a twelve month period, I'd say reasonably priced players are a mere year away at this rate.

Although I'd agree it will be years before any format can catch DVD sales, to say that its because player prices are the main hinderance is silly.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By Malhavoc on 1/4/2008 5:19:54 PM , Rating: 2
There was an article here on DailyTech before the holidays that WB would make decision based on holiday sales of HD media. If I recall, it appeared to be a guaranteed win for Blue-ray since alot of the HD-DVD players would be received for Christmas and media-wise Blue-ray was ahead in sales.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By Gio6518 on 1/5/2008 12:08:07 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
There was an article here on DailyTech before the holidays that WB would make decision based on holiday sales of HD media. If I recall, it appeared to be a guaranteed win for Blue-ray since alot of the HD-DVD players would be received for Christmas and media-wise Blue-ray was ahead in sales


and there werent and BLU-Ray players or PS3's given as christmas presents ?


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By Malhavoc on 1/5/2008 1:20:48 PM , Rating: 2
People don't usually buy media for things they don't have yet. The Christmas hardware sales were unlikely to swing the tide from Blu-Ray media sales lead to HD-DVD media sales lead before the end of the holidays.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By neilrieck on 1/5/2008 8:22:58 AM , Rating: 2
One huge Christmas title from Warner Brothers was "Blade Runner - The Final Cut" which fans had been wating for since 2001. Can you imagine the complaints from BR fanatics when told that BR would only be available in one HD format but not the other? Warner Brothers maximized profits by publishing Blade Runner in both HD-DVD and Blu-ray. Their recent decision to only publish on Blu-ray now limits their potential market size.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By othercents on 1/7/2008 1:57:39 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Warner Brothers maximized profits by publishing Blade Runner in both HD-DVD and Blu-ray.

I believe that all production houses are loosing money on the HD format because of the low volume and they loose more money if they are competing in both formats. This is why many of them are now choosing sides. They want one format, so that they can ramp production up to speed to reduce costs and get rid of DVD production.

quote:
Their recent decision to only publish on Blu-ray now limits their potential market size.

Actually their market size would be larger than BR and HDDVD together if there was only one format. Granted for the short term they are limiting their market size, but in the long run less people will be confused and just buy the one HD format making a larger market. Warner Brothers is banking on the fact that they choose the right format.

Other


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By Spuke on 1/4/2008 5:40:15 PM , Rating: 2
I agree and couldn't careless which one wins. I bought a $98 HD DVD player that upconverts DVD's too. It's a win-win for me! Even with Warners support of Bluray, it's STILL too early early to tell which will win as NEITHER format has no where near the sales of DVD.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By BMFPitt on 1/5/2008 8:38:57 AM , Rating: 2
If HD-DVD dies tomorrow, I'm sure I'll enjoy my $98 player for a few years before an affordable BD or Combo player comes out...

Maybe they'll even have some good clearance sales on movies...


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By othercents on 1/7/2008 2:00:33 PM , Rating: 1
When Betamax died many people had to keep two players. I don't remember seeing a dual format player. If HD DVD dies then I doubt there will be a dual player and I doubt they will keep producing the material required to make new players.

Other


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By RMTimeKill on 1/11/2008 4:50:16 PM , Rating: 2
Slight problem with this argument, Beta and VHS where physically different sizes, BR, HD-DVD and DVD are all the same size discs, there for making it much more probable and practical to have a multi-format player.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By BladeVenom on 1/4/2008 5:58:06 PM , Rating: 2
Just last month Warner said they we going to support both formats.
http://www.soundadviceblog.com/?p=677
quote:
We have made no decision to change our present policy which is to produce in both HD DVD and Blu-ray.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By natebsi on 1/4/2008 6:57:37 PM , Rating: 3
That was just to get people like me to spend money during xmas! :)


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By mcnabney on 1/5/08, Rating: 0
RE: Clearly chosen ????
By SavagePotato on 1/4/08, Rating: -1
RE: Clearly chosen ????
By 80Morphine on 1/5/08, Rating: 0
RE: Clearly chosen ????
By SavagePotato on 1/5/2008 1:43:43 PM , Rating: 1
Right, cause clearly I plan to play blu ray discs on my 19 inch pc monitor and not my ps3 and 50 inch plasma.

No, no your day wont come im afraid.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By RMTimeKill on 1/11/2008 4:54:37 PM , Rating: 1
You have a weak monitor... my monitor IS 62"... Gaming HTPCs and wireless keyboard/mouse for teh w1nz0r!!!ones11!!11evlentyone!11


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By ImSpartacus on 1/5/2008 1:46:12 PM , Rating: 2
So on a fifty-fifty bet, when you happen to be right (as half the community would have to be) you gloat? ...right


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By SavagePotato on 1/5/08, Rating: -1
RE: Clearly chosen ????
By SlyNine on 1/7/2008 2:13:50 AM , Rating: 1
Big deal, Even a broken clock is right twice a day. So by your standard. You are right half as often as a broken clock. Wow you are a smart one, hmm come to think of it though. The format war isnt really even over yet. But lets just assume you are right.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By EglsFly on 1/5/2008 4:08:39 AM , Rating: 4
GAME OVER MAN, GAME OVER!!! LOL


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By neilrieck on 1/5/2008 8:46:43 AM , Rating: 4
Consumers haven't decided anything; these decisions are being made by rich studios who have been bought off by richer manufacturers (and both camps are guilty of this). First off, onsumers have been misled by companies who only wanted to maximize design royalties rather than to co-operate on a common technology (think SDRAM, USB, AGP, PCI, etc.). Secondly, these manufacturers have influenced studios to sign exclusive aggreements to publish in one format but not the other. Since this limits free-market choices, publishing in exclusively in only one format was recently declared illegal in Europe (by the EEC). So I urge anyone who feels they have been abandoned by their studios to purchase desired HD-DVD titles over the web from companies like "amazon.co.uk". I have already done this and the shipping is very reasonable while the HD-DVD disks are "region free". By bypassing local retailers, you will be forcing them to put pressure on the studios. As we have been told many times before, we are now part of a global market place. I ask you all to exercise your rights as global citizens.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By mgambrell on 1/5/2008 11:09:07 AM , Rating: 2
Thanks for the action plan. Thats good advice.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 1/5/2008 12:24:21 PM , Rating: 2
Indeed it is. For once, Europe to the rescue.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By SavagePotato on 1/5/08, Rating: -1
RE: Clearly chosen ????
By sweetsauce on 1/5/2008 4:08:49 PM , Rating: 2
Just be glad its not the other way around, or you'd be boned since you can't watch european blu on US players.

How does providing a product i want to buy in a format i own breed socialism again? Or are you just throwing out cute catch phrases to sound intelligent? If the format war helped consumers in any way, you might have a point. Clearly it doesn't help anybody so you just sound stupid.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By SavagePotato on 1/5/08, Rating: 0
RE: Clearly chosen ????
By Shining Arcanine on 1/5/2008 4:59:09 PM , Rating: 2
How did European Union force fair play on any of the companies you mentioned? The only thing I was able to observe the European Union do was perform an act of extortion and pat themselves on the back for supposedly helping people when if they accomplished anything, they made things worse.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By SavagePotato on 1/5/08, Rating: 0
RE: Clearly chosen ????
By SlyNine on 1/7/2008 2:19:57 AM , Rating: 2
Go post on youtube... maybe somone there will buy that bs.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By Shining Arcanine on 1/5/2008 4:55:08 PM , Rating: 2
I know "how he came to the conclusion that consumers have 'clearly chosen' Blu-Ray." It is very simple really. Every time a company does something, they say everything they can to introject positive qualities into it. Since Warner Bros is going with Blu-Ray, they say that Blu-Ray is what everyone wants, patting themselves on the back for doing it, even if it is not true. If Warner Bros. were to switch to HD-DVD a month from now, they will be saying that HD-DVD is what everyone wants and pat themselves on the back for it.

The rationale for saying such things is illogical, but the pattern is not.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By Locutus465 on 1/5/2008 8:08:33 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, I can't wait untill more deatils about what happened come to light... I think dropping HD DVD was a mistake, I do happen to own both already so I'm not screwed or anything, but I still *much* prefer HD DVD to BluRay. Espeacially with all this profiles stuff that is going on, my player for instance (Samsung DB-P1400) is only a P1.0 player, so eventually I'll have to upgrade it to a Profile 2.0.

Also, transitioning customers from DVD to Bluray isn't going to be as smooth and neat. With HD DVD studios could just opt (for a period of time) to only realease HD DVD combo discs, then gradually drop the DVD side. BD doesn't offer any solution this nice.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By Christopher1 on 1/5/2008 11:48:44 PM , Rating: 1
I hate to say this, but with the sales of PS3's (very high despite everything)...... the market has chosen Blu-Ray now.

I wish that wasn't the case, since I liked HD-DVD better, but I am just going to have to buy a Blu-Ray burner and lump it.


Good riddance to both formats.
By aju on 1/4/2008 4:40:08 PM , Rating: 2
I hope Microsoft is coming up with an online download format. What we need is a online media downloading service that for a decent monthly subscription price (No more than $30) will allow us to download any form of modern digital media (Movies, Music, Games, Books, etc…) and use it in whatever device we want for our personal entertainment. That is what consumers really need. They can take all the other crap they are forcing on us and stick it where the sun rarely shines.




RE: Good riddance to both formats.
By Sanity on 1/4/2008 4:51:00 PM , Rating: 5
And then after paying all of this money, I end up with nothing to show for it. Nothing physical anyway. I personally like having something to hold when I spend money. Disk drives can fail, and data can be corrupted. And I can easily let family or freinds borrow my dvd's.

No, I don't like the idea of getting rid of physical media. Maybe that's just me though.


RE: Good riddance to both formats.
By SirLucius on 1/4/2008 4:56:51 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed. I prefer physical media hands down. I do end up ripping my music and movies to my hard drives, but there's something to be said for having a physical copy of something. Even for the little bit of music I've bought digitally, I end up backing it up to a CD or DVD. Call me old fashioned, but I'd like to see physical media used for a good while longer.


RE: Good riddance to both formats.
By Noya on 1/4/2008 5:09:19 PM , Rating: 2
Not just that, but having to use my own bandwidth? It better be cheap...


By Christopher1 on 1/5/2008 11:52:01 PM , Rating: 1
Why? Most service plans are unlimited uploading and downloading. Heck, for all the whining I have heard about Comcast limiting download bandwidth if you go over a certain amount....... I downloaded nearly a TERABYTE in December and uploaded about 1/4 that.... and didn't hear one complaint from them!

Maybe we just have better people in Aberdeen, MD, who don't whine about bandwidth as long as people are paying the almost $50 bucks a month for cable internet.


By pomaikai on 1/4/2008 5:22:06 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
And I can easily let family or freinds borrow my dvd's.


You better do this while you can. If MPAA had there way you will would have to buy a license for everyone that watches your disc.


RE: Good riddance to both formats.
By FITCamaro on 1/4/2008 5:56:00 PM , Rating: 2
I'm with you. I like having a disc. I'll buy it, rip it to my computer, and keep the disc as the backup.


By Gio6518 on 1/5/2008 12:12:07 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'm with you. I like having a disc. I'll buy it, rip it to my computer, and keep the disc as the backup.


i rip to hard drive for iPod for my kids and the biggest kid ME for road trips...

nothing like carrying a couple hundred movies with you wherever you go


By RMTimeKill on 1/11/2008 5:02:53 PM , Rating: 2
Physical media is over rated, kids scratch them, they wear out, house burns down and they are gone, etc...

With downloadable media you can have Thor himself send his hammer smashing your house to bits, oh noes, computer is goooonnnee!!!

Ok, build a new one, log in, and download what you have already paid for... There are many pro's to digital media, physical media is for those afraid of change!

HPTC's ftw!!


RE: Good riddance to both formats.
By BansheeX on 1/4/2008 7:59:38 PM , Rating: 2
Big reasons why movies/games will never take off as a downloadable format like music did:

-filesizes are huge and not yet feasible from a bandwidth standpoint, probably never for games which will get endlessly larger as we move towards virtual reality.
-totally anti-climactic as a gift
-hard drive space issues will become a problem very quickly unless you transfer them onto physical media (which you were trying to get away from to begin with)
-impossible or highly difficult to transfer to and from different players/houses.
-absolutely NO resale value


RE: Good riddance to both formats.
By djc208 on 1/4/2008 9:26:19 PM , Rating: 2
-You're not going to get instant gratification but if you've got a broadband connection what's letting it download overnight to get a couple of GB for a game. Many will let you pre-load new games before they release so you have a couple of MB worth of data to download and install on release day and can be up and playing in minutes. Movies can be played as they are downloaded and with all the people with Netflix or Blockbuster online what's the difference between selecting a movie and waiting a day or two for it to be delivered vs selecting the movie and waiting a couple of hours for it to be downloaded?

- HD space is cheap and it's only getting cheaper. A 500GB HDD will run you about $100. 1 TB drives a little more than twice that. You can put a lot of crap, games included on a 500 GB HDD.

-What resale value? Very little of this stuff is legally allowed to be re-sold, and outside of that usually isn't worth much, why do you think it's so cheap to buy used media?

The key to the down loaded content is price. All these companies want me to download a movie or game that can't be easily moved, transcoded, or loaned and I only save a buck or two over getting a hard copy with fewer or none of these limitations.

Who wants an e-book for $10 that can't be loaned to a friend, transferred to other formats or devices when for $12 or less I could get the paperback with none of those limitations?


RE: Good riddance to both formats.
By BansheeX on 1/5/2008 12:06:14 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
HD space is cheap and it's only getting cheaper. A 500GB HDD will run you about $100. 1 TB drives a little more than twice that. You can put a lot of crap, games included on a 500 GB HDD.


That's only 25 HD movies. No porn, music, or games included.

quote:
What resale value? Very little of this stuff is legally allowed to be re-sold, and outside of that usually isn't worth much, why do you think it's so cheap to buy used media?


Speak for yourself. I just sold Symphony of the night for the PS1 on ebay for 3x what I paid for it eight years ago.


By dutchMasta on 1/5/2008 6:02:54 AM , Rating: 2
You *could* rip it instead of copying the image. Then you could have about 70 HD movies, which, I think is more than enough for most people. If you can afford 70 HD movies, you can probably afford several big HDs.


RE: Good riddance to both formats.
By djc208 on 1/5/2008 7:06:37 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
That's only 25 HD movies. No porn, music, or games included.


Assuming you have a full disk and copy all the extras, menus, sound tracks, etc. Put just the movie on there and that number goes up, maybe double. In a downloadable format all the extras and crap can easily be streamed from the net, it's not usually HD content anyway.

Like I said, if the price is right it will work. If I can download the movie for $10 less than buying the disk then the hard disk pays for itself in the $250+ you save in downloading the content.

quote:
Speak for yourself. I just sold Symphony of the night for the PS1 on ebay for 3x what I paid for it eight years ago.


Ok, but that's the exception rather than the rule. It's also based on not being able to get it any more. If Sony starts pulling a Nintendo and offering games like this for download you'd probably have been lucky to get the download price for it.
You might get $10 or $15 for your $20 to $30 DVD, much higher and most people will just buy it new.


By noirsoft on 1/6/2008 4:26:00 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Ok, but that's the exception rather than the rule. It's also based on not being able to get it any more. If Sony starts pulling a Nintendo and offering games like this for download you'd probably have been lucky to get the download price for it.


Castlevania: SOTN is available for $10 from Xbox live for the 360, and the remake for the PSP is $30 (and includes another Castlevania came) -- It just goes to show that some people will always overpay for a "collector's item" even when the exact same content can be had for a cheaper price.


RE: Good riddance to both formats.
By kinnoch on 1/5/2008 2:02:36 AM , Rating: 2
HD isn't a problem if you have a service like steam. The games are tied to my account. I can redownload them at will when I am ready to play them.

The only downside to that is if Steam begins to suck in the future, or if I have to start using multiple services to manage my games.


RE: Good riddance to both formats.
By djc208 on 1/5/2008 7:18:23 AM , Rating: 2
I was thinking of this when I wrote my reply. Steam isn't perfect but it's not bad either. You can pre-load most games before the're released. You can back up the game onto a DVD if you want a hard copy and you can log into steam from any computer and download, install, and run the game.


RE: Good riddance to both formats.
By MrTeal on 1/5/2008 11:23:02 AM , Rating: 3
While that might work for games, a 20GB movie is another story. My download speeds tend to be about 100kBps, maybe 120-130 if I'm not using the connection for anything else. Not spectacular, but I'd guess fairly average for a lot of DSL users. At 100kBps, it would take 55 hrs to download a movie. Not only would I not get instant gratification, I'd tie up my internet connection for better than two days. Even if I went through that once, I sure wouldn't want to do it again in 6 months when I want to watch it again. Sure I could archive it onto a BR disc, but that kind of defeats the point.

Unfortunately I see movies taking a path similar to music, where people unthinkingly download 192kbps DRM-neutered tracks for a buck when they could just go out and buy an album for the same price or less as all the songs on iTunes, get higher quality audio, the physical media, and all the album art.

Why would I want to pay for a lower quality movie with less extras, that I have to subsidize delivery costs on, wait a couple days to get, and can only watch a couple times before shrinking HD space forces me to burn it onto a $20 blank BR disc or delete it?


RE: Good riddance to both formats.
By djc208 on 1/5/2008 12:41:57 PM , Rating: 2
I think the first iteration of this is going to be a rental type setup more than a purchase. Netflix is already moving that direction but I see a set-top box or computer program that would allow you to set up your movie list and then start downloading those movies until the available or allocated space was full. Once you've watched the movie you can mark it "viewed" and the software would delete it and start using that space for the next one on your list.

At that point they could easily offer a "buy it" button that stripped any DRM off the file and dumped it to a different file location for you to burn or keep as you desired for a couple of extra bucks.

Even at 55 hours (for HD content with extras) after the initial group is downloaded the wait for the next download would be no worse than the turnaound time for Netflix now, and better as broadband speeds increase. If you regularly load your internet connection the extra data could cause problems, but I think most people have broadband for speed, not volume. I'm paying for 24/7 connectivity, might as well be using it more than the couple of hours I'm actually home on the internet each day.


RE: Good riddance to both formats.
By Belard on 1/7/2008 2:45:23 AM , Rating: 1
Yeah... like we DON'T have enough microsoft in our lives. If vista wasn't so DRMed to death, it might have been a worthwhile upgrade over vista... (When a 2GB XP Pro is STILL faster than a 4GB Vista 64bit)

Anyways... Lets see... you DOWNLOAD movies to your computer or set-top box... Its on a HD... you get a virus, the hard drive failes, you upgrade your compuer... guess what? That $10 download you have is TIED to that HARDWARE device!!

My DVD player dies (I have replaced 2 in 7 years) - not a big deal. $100, new player (Nowadays $50)... Or I can take it to a friends place, drop it in his play and wow, it works!

Hence: Downloads are fine for little-portable players... not big-screen TVs.


By clockerspiel on 1/4/2008 6:55:29 PM , Rating: 1
Get ready for more DRM from Sony:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Pictures

http://www.zoom-in.com/press_release/2006/11/starz...

http://netforbeginners.about.com/b/2007/10/14/sony...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb5053/is_20...

Columbia, MGM, who's next?

Sony...Warner Bros...they're in bed together.

By the way, just purchased "Resident Evil Extinction" but cannot play it on my PC with Cyberlink's PowerDVD because of Sony's DRM. The blasted disk wants to force me to download the movie to my pc, therein eating up valuable hard drive space. I will never again purchase a Sony published movie because of this crud (shades of the Sony rootkit fiasco!) Plays OK on a set top DVD player, but not on the pc without downloading the file and possibly incurring rootkits and other DRM hogwash.




By Chiggs on 1/4/2008 6:58:52 PM , Rating: 2
Wow, an angry DRM post in the wake of a Sony victory. What other wonders will this day serve up? One can only dream!


By BansheeX on 1/4/2008 7:43:05 PM , Rating: 2
DRM is a necessary evil to get these paranoid studios releasing films in HD. You know damn well that if Toshiba owned a music studio, they'd be suing P2Pers like everyone else. And you also know that if blu-ray had truly intrusive DRM, it would fail as fast and hard as rootkit products did. Just wait for it to get cracked like DVD and stop feeding into the Sony hategroup frenzy.


By Master Kenobi (blog) on 1/4/2008 7:56:38 PM , Rating: 4
Yea the DRM has been cracked for those that need it (Pirates, China, etc...) It does impact regular users trying to play Blu-Ray legitimately on a PC though, its fine on stand alone players.

Regardless this still won't put the war to bed. It's no different than when Disney or Universal announced their exclusive support of one medium. The real winners will be the hybrid players. I doubt you will see HD DVD owners running out to buy Blu-Ray players, infact this may make them reconsider buying any HD format. On the flip side had they gone HD DVD exclusive, you would not have seen Blu-Ray owners run out to buy HD DVD players. Given how troublesome the HD format battle is, and Warner's backpedal from supporting both to just one, many people will hold off buying anything.

Frankly, I'm an HD DVD supporter, and until such time as I can go out and pickup a dual format hybrid player (1080p) for around 200-250 I won't be buying any Blu-Ray title and will stick with regular DVD's when necessary or continue to buy HD DVD's. Only thing Warner has done here is kill their own sales in the short term. This is more of a long term gamble for them though.


By sweetsauce on 1/4/2008 8:58:17 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed, couldn't say it better myself.


By lopri on 1/4/2008 10:48:04 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Yea the DRM has been cracked for those that need it (Pirates, China, etc...) It does impact regular users trying to play Blu-Ray legitimately on a PC though, its fine on stand alone players. Regardless this still won't put the war to bed. It's no different than when Disney or Universal announced their exclusive support of one medium. The real winners will be the hybrid players. I doubt you will see HD DVD owners running out to buy Blu-Ray players, infact this may make them reconsider buying any HD format. On the flip side had they gone HD DVD exclusive, you would not have seen Blu-Ray owners run out to buy HD DVD players. Given how troublesome the HD format battle is, and Warner's backpedal from supporting both to just one, many people will hold off buying anything. Frankly, I'm an HD DVD supporter, and until such time as I can go out and pickup a dual format hybrid player (1080p) for around 200-250 I won't be buying any Blu-Ray title and will stick with regular DVD's when necessary or continue to buy HD DVD's. Only thing Warner has done here is kill their own sales in the short term. This is more of a long term gamble for them though.


Quoted for future reference. :) This is the most ridiculous and bitter, yet probably most honest, statement I've seen from a HD-DVD supporter with the issue at hand.

In a B&M shop, high definition media (Blu-Ray/HD-DVD) sells for $30, and SD-DVD for $20. If you're more internet savvy, you can often find a high definition media for cheaper than SD-DVD. Are you saying that you'd rather waste your money on SD-DVD, because of your remorse? If you have seen the difference between 480p and 1080p, you'd have been really brain-washed to pay $20 for a 480p media.

And you go ahead and say that everyone will do the same. Ha, fat chance. Oh and dual-format, my ass. Sure I'd love it if it's actually affordable. (remember this is the argument often used by HD-DVD supporters?) Unless dual-format player is at the same or lower price than a Blu-Ray player, why would anyone buy (or make) a dual-format player? I mean, if there is nothing to watch?

Get over yourself.


By Master Kenobi (blog) on 1/4/2008 11:57:14 PM , Rating: 1
Don't expect any HD DVD owner to run out and buy a dedicated Blu-Ray player just because of this news. It will be hybrid or nothing. Especially for those with large libraries.


By Spuke on 1/5/2008 2:19:58 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Don't expect any HD DVD owner to run out and buy a dedicated Blu-Ray player just because of this news.

I sure as hell won't be doing that. When BD gets down to $100, I'll pick one up just like I did HD DVD. Until then, it'll be HD DVD's (don't actually own any yet...waiting for the free one's) and DVD's.


By djc208 on 1/5/2008 6:52:44 AM , Rating: 2
Well for this HD-DVD owner he's right. If HD-DVD called it quits tomorrow I'm still not going out to blow $400 on a blue-ray player (that's still probably not version 1.1 or 1.2 or something capable so I'll have a $400 blue-ray "light" player that is technically obsolete already) and I don't really want a PS3 so the added functionality is a waste for me. If I have to own a movie that's blue-ray only I'll get the DVD, otherwise I'll buy/rent the HD-DVD when possible.

I didn't buy the player because I love the format, I bought it because I love HD and it was cheap. In typical Sony fashion you're going to pay for the privlidge of using their crap. Toss me a BD player that supports their lastest Java "me too" feature set for $200 and I'll probably have one of them too.

If I can get the hybrid player for $50 or $100 more I'd probably do that instead. One less component to worry about, and I can always give the HD-DVD player to someone else.


By lopri on 1/6/2008 7:54:25 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe you can go check it out yourself:

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/showthread.php?t=3...

It seems like not every high-definition video/audio lovers are a teeth-grinder like yourself.


By BansheeX on 1/5/2008 2:11:56 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Regardless this still won't put the war to bed. It's no different than when Disney or Universal announced their exclusive support of one medium. The real winners will be the hybrid players. I doubt you will see HD DVD owners running out to buy Blu-Ray players, infact this may make them reconsider buying any HD format. On the flip side had they gone HD DVD exclusive, you would not have seen Blu-Ray owners run out to buy HD DVD players.


I realize how badly you want to rationalize dual format persisting forever, but it won't happen. When the few remaining HD-DVD exclusives see blu-ray's superior sales and further realize that the power to make HD as profitable as DVD was rests in their hands, they are going to switch and end this. You're looking at this in a very biased and short-term perspective. As an HD-DVD early adopter, you represent a very small number of people compared to the eventual mainstream buyer. If HD-DVD movies can all be had on Blu-Ray and HD-DVD media is no longer sold, what incentive will all these new buyers have to buy a more expensive dual format player? Zero. The industry doesn't care about maintaining backwards compatibility for the few people who bought the losing format. It didn't happen when betamax lost, and it won't happen this time either.


By SavagePotato on 1/5/2008 2:18:01 PM , Rating: 1
There were beta/vhs dual format players, and they dried up and dissapeared eventualy.

In the coming months it would be surprising if the remaining hd-dvd only studios continued to back it for any length of time. Analysts usualy aren't worth putting much stock in, but this time I would agree with the few analyst comments I have read that the remaining three are no doubt looking for the escape clause in their hd-dvd contracts furiously.

If there is any company releasing hd-dvd after this summer I would be surprised.


By Gio6518 on 1/5/2008 12:18:31 AM , Rating: 2
plays with anydvd running in the background for me

www.slysoft.com

drm is in everything look at vista

even HD-DVD had a copy protection it was just and easy one to crack, then the didnt pursue it farther, and tried to use it as a marketing ploy, but you can rest assure that if HD-DVD would of become the dominant format they would of implemented it fiercely


So another over paid idiot CEO screws up
By neilrieck on 1/4/2008 7:40:38 PM , Rating: 1
So another over paid idiot CEO srews up. I thought studios would want to market their entertainment to the largest possible market. The best way to do this is to offer both formats until the dust settles. But by picking one format over antoher, they immediately reduce their current HI-DEF market. But there is another way to look at this: since HD-DVD players are cheaper (on average) by more than $100, eventually more people in the world would eventually own them. This would result in a much larger world market to sell Hollywood content. By choosing the more expensive technology now, this CEO has just limited his future market. He has shot himself, and his investors, in the foot.




RE: So another over paid idiot CEO screws up
By Chiggs on 1/4/2008 8:14:16 PM , Rating: 4
There's really not a nice way for me to phrase this, but I feel it must be said: You have no idea what you're talking about and furthermore, you're spreading false hope.

This is the killing blow to HD-DVD. I'm going to say that again: killing blow. It couldn't win one sales week last year--NOT ONE! And now they're losing WB after May? They are done for and all I need is time to prove my point.


RE: So another over paid idiot CEO screws up
By sweetsauce on 1/4/2008 9:01:24 PM , Rating: 2
With over 6 million ps3's out there, of course its going to sell more movies. Looking at the bigger picture, its the small margin of sales lead that it has over hd-dvd that would worry me but im sure thats not important as long as its winning right?


RE: So another over paid idiot CEO screws up
By Chiggs on 1/4/2008 9:47:46 PM , Rating: 2
Well, it mattered to Warner Bros, and that's all that really mattered in the end, despite the claims of a pay-off.

And a 65-35 sales lead YTD is nothing to sneeze at. Sour grapes strike again.


RE: So another over paid idiot CEO screws up
By mcnabney on 1/5/2008 12:19:40 AM , Rating: 2
They were paid off. But that isn't the problem. It is the deliberate false statements they made beforehand.


RE: So another over paid idiot CEO screws up
By ATC on 1/5/2008 12:54:57 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
They were paid off. But that isn't the problem. It is the deliberate false statements they made beforehand.

Not quite. This is in line with all companies' policies. Remember when MSFT said they had no plans to release an HDMI-equipped 360 until, of course, the day that HDMI-equipped 360s were announced. Companies cannot spill the beans until announcement day. Get used to it.

On a side note; why is every one so up in arms at the thought, and it is just a thought right now, that they got paid for this. Did you feel the same way when Paramount, Dreamworks and Universal got paid for their loyalty? Talk about double standards.


RE: So another over paid idiot CEO screws up
By mcnabney on 1/5/2008 2:05:55 AM , Rating: 2
I think that collusion in the market in order to impose a monopoly or standard is against the very idea of a free market.

There are two products available. Let the best format win, or better yet, eliminate the fight altogether by making dual format players the standard.

Worked for DTS vs Dolby Digital
Worked for all the silly recordable media formats


By ATC on 1/5/2008 12:27:06 PM , Rating: 2
All CE companies except for Toshiba and MSFT were fully behind BD, and so were most of the studios. This format war was never meant to happen and it shouldn't have. Consumers were the ones to lose the most.

The HD-DVD group alone is to blame for dragging this. They had no chance at all at beating BD. All they could ever hope for was a stalemate, hardly the best choice for consumers and a sure way to confuse them endlessly. And they were on their way to doing just that with their payouts to insure studios' loyalties.

Some people seem to think that all of a sudden if BD won, Sony's DRM will spread like a virus, BD players will jump to a $1000 and BD movies will go up to $50 a pop. It's the opposite that's true. Once we have a unified format, the cost for studios, retailers, CE companies and ultimately consumers will drop like a rock. And that is in the best interest of consumers. The HD-DVD PR group will have you thinking otherwise.


By BansheeX on 1/4/2008 8:26:26 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
So another over paid idiot CEO srews up. I thought studios would want to market their entertainment to the largest possible market.


A single format victory is the largest possible market. Perpetually fighting dual formats has the potential to make it a permanently niche format over mainstream DVD.

quote:
But there is another way to look at this: since HD-DVD players are cheaper (on average) by more than $100, eventually more people in the world would eventually own them.


HD-DVD won't continue to be made if it loses, and blu-ray will invariably continue to drop in price until it, too, reaches rock bottom prices.


By Belard on 1/7/2008 3:03:02 AM , Rating: 2
Not so... Offering BOTH formats of a simular format - COSTS the studios, stores money and keeps people like me and most others on the fence...

Why did I not buy a DVD Burner until only 2 years ago, the R+ R- war. I still DON'T own a DVD-Recorder because I don't think the life-span of DVDR is more than a year or so. But as of now, those units DO burn and PLAY +/-.

This IS PART of settling the DUST... this is the proccess. When Parmount went to HD-DVD, it added confusion... WB might have dumped HD-DVD even faster... but now, only 20% market share Paramount/Universal are left and the preassure on them just went up a BIG NOTCH.

Movies that HD-DVD players CAN'T play: Pixar, Diseny films. Cars, The Incredables, Pirates of the Car~...

Note: WB said "We're going to BluRay - period" - Parmount said "We got paid $150 to be HD-DVD for 18 months", THAT made things worse...

And HD-DVD is not $100 cheapers. Toshiba's are $250~300 for the A3. The re-badge low-bin Toshiba under the venturea label (90 day warranty) is $200 at Walmart (online). At my local walmart - Toshiba A3 = $299, SONY's $288 ( don't know why) online = $250 vs $348... but SONY does do 1080p. Samsung is supposed to have a $300 player now. And when more people are BUYING BR players, then the cost to manufacture GOES DOWN.

The cheapest HD-DVD with 1080p = $400~500. A30 and A35.


By chick0n on 1/7/2008 10:42:48 AM , Rating: 1
Hey, Smartass.

so WB's CEO is an idiot huh? yep he is.

What are you then huh ? a loser who cries because you know that you losers are losing the battle ?

Not to mention he is an idiot thats making millions of dollars every year, and you? sitting @ home posting on DT ?

You better shut your mouth b4 you embarrass yourself even more.


Good News
By Sanity on 1/4/2008 4:36:48 PM , Rating: 2
I'm glad to hear this. Blu-Ray is coming down in price, and it looks spectacular in HD. I've been starting a small Blu-Ray library, and I don't want to have to mess around with asking stores if they carry something in Blu-Ray anymore. I hope this is all over and done with in the not to distant future. It'll probably cut costs for the studios by concentrating on only one format too.

I think Sony made a good decision with the PS3, and it's starting to show. I'm enjoying mine.




RE: Good News
By OxBow on 1/4/2008 4:46:21 PM , Rating: 2
ditto