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Another day, another studio claims exclusivity in the HD format wars

In the latest saga in the long-running HD DVD vs. Blu-ray battle, Warner Bros. Entertainment has struck a blow to the former camp. The company announced today that it will soon become Blu-ray exclusive with regards to high-definition DVD titles.

According to Warner Bros., the move to support only Blu-ray is a strategic decision aimed at giving consumers what they want.

"The window of opportunity for high-definition DVD could be missed if format confusion continues to linger," said Warner Bros. Chairman and CEO Barry Meyer. "We believe that exclusively distributing in Blu-ray will further the potential for mass market success and ultimately benefit retailers, producers, and most importantly, consumers."

According to the Warner Bros. press release, Warner Home Video will stop releasing HD DVD movies in late May 2008. To add salt to HD DVD’s wounds, Warner Home Video is going to stagger the launches of further HD DVD titles until the late-May cut off period -- standard DVD and Blu-ray movies will be released first, then the HD DVD titles will be released after a "short window."

"A two-format landscape has led to consumer confusion and indifference toward high definition, which has kept the technology from reaching mass adoption and becoming the important revenue stream that it can be for the industry," added Warner Bros. Home Entertainment Group President Kevin Tsujihara. "Consumers have clearly chosen Blu-ray, and we believe that recognizing this preference is the right step in making this great home entertainment experience accessible to the widest possible audience."

The move by Warner Bros. comes four months after Paramount and DreamWorks announced their decision to go HD DVD exclusive. The move prompted "Transformers" executive produce Michael Bay to go on a rampage. "I want people to see my movies in the best formats possible. For them to deny people who have Blu-ray sucks! They were progressive by having two formats. No Transformers 2 for me," exclaimed Bay in late August.

Bay later stepped up his "war talk" in early December and accused Microsoft of sabotaging both HD DVD and Blu-ray. "That is why Microsoft is handing out $100 million dollar checks to studios just embrace the HD DVD and not the leading, and superior Blu Ray," said Bay in December. "They want confusion in the market until they perfect the digital downloads. Time will tell and you will see the truth."

Updated 1/4/2008
Toshiba has formally responded to the Warner Bros./Blu-ray announcement:

Toshiba is quite surprised by Warner Bros.' decision to abandon HD DVD in favor of Blu-ray, despite the fact that there are various contracts in place between our companies concerning the support of HD DVD. As central members of the DVD Forum, we have long maintained a close partnership with Warner Bros. We worked closely together to help standardize the first-generation DVD format as well as to define and shape HD DVD as its next-generation successor.

We were particularly disappointed that this decision was made in spite of the significant momentum HD DVD has gained in the US market as well as other regions in 2007. HD DVD players and PCs have outsold Blu-ray in the US market in 2007.

We will assess the potential impact of this announcement with the other HD DVD partner companies and valuate potential next steps. We remain firm in our belief that HD DVD is the format best suited to the wants and needs of the consumer.



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Clearly chosen ????
By wempa on 1/4/2008 4:27:54 PM , Rating: 4
I'd like to know how he came to the conclusion that consumers have "clearly chosen" Blu-Ray. 99% of people don't have a clue about the next generation after DVD. The other 1% argue back and forth about HD DVD vs. Blu Ray and the latter currently has a slight edge. I don't agree that consumers have clearly decided.




RE: Clearly chosen ????
By FITCamaro on 1/4/2008 4:32:07 PM , Rating: 3
Don't worry. Even if HD-DVD does go away, mass adoption of Blu-ray would still be years away considering the cheapest upcoming Blu-ray players are still a few hundred dollars.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By wempa on 1/4/2008 4:46:23 PM , Rating: 2
True. I just get a kick out of the BS claims they make. I was actually pulling for HD-DVD even though my wife won a free PS3 in a poker tournament. So, I'm actually better off if BR wins.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By fifolo on 1/4/2008 9:02:04 PM , Rating: 5
In my day, we'd win our wives in poker tournaments.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By Bigjee on 1/5/2008 8:34:11 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
In my day, we'd win our wives in poker tournaments.


Yeh everything is high tech nowadays isn't it.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By logaldinho on 1/7/2008 4:26:23 AM , Rating: 2
well, its going to be interesting for the studio if HDDVD either wins out or gets a split decision with BR. I dont expect toshiba to be friendly on the licensing in the future to those that betrayed an obvious existing relationship.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By BansheeX on 1/4/2008 6:44:24 PM , Rating: 3
Mass adoption always was years away. I've been trying to explain it to people on this forum for a long time. People need a larger selection of titles, HD televisions, and a real incentive to upgrade all the DVDs they already bought. That's why the price difference between the players themselves didn't really matter. A $100 player still means you're going to have rebuy many of your movies to see the benefit. The PS3 continues to push this niche format into households by the millions as a bonus while Microsoft elected to keep it separate. It helped the 360 get a headstart over the PS3 but ultimately ended up killing HD-DVDs chances. The interesting part is what effect Blu-Ray's victory will have on PS3 sales in the long-run. It can only help them, that's for sure. This is a great day for blu-ray and PS3 fans alike.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By Spuke on 1/4/2008 6:48:54 PM , Rating: 2
Why do you need to rebuy DVD's? The upconverter works just fine. I don't plan to rebuy anything except MAYBE The Matrix Trilogy. Other than that, I'm keeping all my DVD's.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By natebsi on 1/4/2008 6:56:49 PM , Rating: 4
For newer titles, there is no comparison between HD/BD and an upconverted dvd. None.
I would say, though, that "need to rebuy" is a bit much.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By FITCamaro on 1/6/2008 3:41:48 PM , Rating: 3
It doesn't matter. Just because a better version is out, doesn't mean you have to rebuy everything. When the day comes that I do get an HD player, I'm not going to rebuy all my DVDs. Sure certain movies I will like the complete Star Wars trilogy. But most of it will stay on DVD.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By EntreHoras on 1/4/08, Rating: -1
RE: Clearly chosen ????
By BansheeX on 1/4/2008 7:21:05 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Why do you need to rebuy DVD's? The upconverter works just fine. I don't plan to rebuy anything except MAYBE The Matrix Trilogy. Other than that, I'm keeping all my DVD's.


You have to rebuy DVDs if you want to watch an HD movie, even if you have an HD player. You do realize that they make upconverting DVD players that are cheaper than HD-DVD players, right? If you aren't going HD, why did you pay more for an HD-DVD player? Your rebuttal makes no sense.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By BansheeX on 1/4/2008 7:26:50 PM , Rating: 2
Clarification: "rebuy movies."


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By Farfignewton on 1/5/2008 1:41:31 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
You have to rebuy DVDs if you want to watch an HD movie, even if you have an HD player.


No, I only have to repurchase my dvd movies if I want to watch THOSE movies in H.D. I seriously doubt most people who have or will buy an H.D. player intend to re-purchase more than a few of their particular favorites in H.D. The DVDs I have are fine, but from now on it's H.D. for me.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By pcbean on 1/7/2008 10:50:46 AM , Rating: 2
Years? Really? Considering that Both Blu-ray and HDDVD players have fallen over 50% in a twelve month period, I'd say reasonably priced players are a mere year away at this rate.

Although I'd agree it will be years before any format can catch DVD sales, to say that its because player prices are the main hinderance is silly.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By Malhavoc on 1/4/2008 5:19:54 PM , Rating: 2
There was an article here on DailyTech before the holidays that WB would make decision based on holiday sales of HD media. If I recall, it appeared to be a guaranteed win for Blue-ray since alot of the HD-DVD players would be received for Christmas and media-wise Blue-ray was ahead in sales.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By Gio6518 on 1/5/2008 12:08:07 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
There was an article here on DailyTech before the holidays that WB would make decision based on holiday sales of HD media. If I recall, it appeared to be a guaranteed win for Blue-ray since alot of the HD-DVD players would be received for Christmas and media-wise Blue-ray was ahead in sales


and there werent and BLU-Ray players or PS3's given as christmas presents ?


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By Malhavoc on 1/5/2008 1:20:48 PM , Rating: 2
People don't usually buy media for things they don't have yet. The Christmas hardware sales were unlikely to swing the tide from Blu-Ray media sales lead to HD-DVD media sales lead before the end of the holidays.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By neilrieck on 1/5/2008 8:22:58 AM , Rating: 2
One huge Christmas title from Warner Brothers was "Blade Runner - The Final Cut" which fans had been wating for since 2001. Can you imagine the complaints from BR fanatics when told that BR would only be available in one HD format but not the other? Warner Brothers maximized profits by publishing Blade Runner in both HD-DVD and Blu-ray. Their recent decision to only publish on Blu-ray now limits their potential market size.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By othercents on 1/7/2008 1:57:39 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Warner Brothers maximized profits by publishing Blade Runner in both HD-DVD and Blu-ray.

I believe that all production houses are loosing money on the HD format because of the low volume and they loose more money if they are competing in both formats. This is why many of them are now choosing sides. They want one format, so that they can ramp production up to speed to reduce costs and get rid of DVD production.

quote:
Their recent decision to only publish on Blu-ray now limits their potential market size.

Actually their market size would be larger than BR and HDDVD together if there was only one format. Granted for the short term they are limiting their market size, but in the long run less people will be confused and just buy the one HD format making a larger market. Warner Brothers is banking on the fact that they choose the right format.

Other


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By Spuke on 1/4/2008 5:40:15 PM , Rating: 2
I agree and couldn't careless which one wins. I bought a $98 HD DVD player that upconverts DVD's too. It's a win-win for me! Even with Warners support of Bluray, it's STILL too early early to tell which will win as NEITHER format has no where near the sales of DVD.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By BMFPitt on 1/5/2008 8:38:57 AM , Rating: 2
If HD-DVD dies tomorrow, I'm sure I'll enjoy my $98 player for a few years before an affordable BD or Combo player comes out...

Maybe they'll even have some good clearance sales on movies...


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By othercents on 1/7/2008 2:00:33 PM , Rating: 1
When Betamax died many people had to keep two players. I don't remember seeing a dual format player. If HD DVD dies then I doubt there will be a dual player and I doubt they will keep producing the material required to make new players.

Other


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By RMTimeKill on 1/11/2008 4:50:16 PM , Rating: 2
Slight problem with this argument, Beta and VHS where physically different sizes, BR, HD-DVD and DVD are all the same size discs, there for making it much more probable and practical to have a multi-format player.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By BladeVenom on 1/4/2008 5:58:06 PM , Rating: 2
Just last month Warner said they we going to support both formats.
http://www.soundadviceblog.com/?p=677
quote:
We have made no decision to change our present policy which is to produce in both HD DVD and Blu-ray.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By natebsi on 1/4/2008 6:57:37 PM , Rating: 3
That was just to get people like me to spend money during xmas! :)


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By mcnabney on 1/5/08, Rating: 0
RE: Clearly chosen ????
By SavagePotato on 1/4/08, Rating: -1
RE: Clearly chosen ????
By 80Morphine on 1/5/08, Rating: 0
RE: Clearly chosen ????
By SavagePotato on 1/5/2008 1:43:43 PM , Rating: 1
Right, cause clearly I plan to play blu ray discs on my 19 inch pc monitor and not my ps3 and 50 inch plasma.

No, no your day wont come im afraid.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By RMTimeKill on 1/11/2008 4:54:37 PM , Rating: 1
You have a weak monitor... my monitor IS 62"... Gaming HTPCs and wireless keyboard/mouse for teh w1nz0r!!!ones11!!11evlentyone!11


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By ImSpartacus on 1/5/2008 1:46:12 PM , Rating: 2
So on a fifty-fifty bet, when you happen to be right (as half the community would have to be) you gloat? ...right


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By SavagePotato on 1/5/08, Rating: -1
RE: Clearly chosen ????
By SlyNine on 1/7/2008 2:13:50 AM , Rating: 1
Big deal, Even a broken clock is right twice a day. So by your standard. You are right half as often as a broken clock. Wow you are a smart one, hmm come to think of it though. The format war isnt really even over yet. But lets just assume you are right.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By EglsFly on 1/5/2008 4:08:39 AM , Rating: 4
GAME OVER MAN, GAME OVER!!! LOL


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By neilrieck on 1/5/2008 8:46:43 AM , Rating: 4
Consumers haven't decided anything; these decisions are being made by rich studios who have been bought off by richer manufacturers (and both camps are guilty of this). First off, onsumers have been misled by companies who only wanted to maximize design royalties rather than to co-operate on a common technology (think SDRAM, USB, AGP, PCI, etc.). Secondly, these manufacturers have influenced studios to sign exclusive aggreements to publish in one format but not the other. Since this limits free-market choices, publishing in exclusively in only one format was recently declared illegal in Europe (by the EEC). So I urge anyone who feels they have been abandoned by their studios to purchase desired HD-DVD titles over the web from companies like "amazon.co.uk". I have already done this and the shipping is very reasonable while the HD-DVD disks are "region free". By bypassing local retailers, you will be forcing them to put pressure on the studios. As we have been told many times before, we are now part of a global market place. I ask you all to exercise your rights as global citizens.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By mgambrell on 1/5/2008 11:09:07 AM , Rating: 2
Thanks for the action plan. Thats good advice.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 1/5/2008 12:24:21 PM , Rating: 2
Indeed it is. For once, Europe to the rescue.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By SavagePotato on 1/5/08, Rating: -1
RE: Clearly chosen ????
By sweetsauce on 1/5/2008 4:08:49 PM , Rating: 2
Just be glad its not the other way around, or you'd be boned since you can't watch european blu on US players.

How does providing a product i want to buy in a format i own breed socialism again? Or are you just throwing out cute catch phrases to sound intelligent? If the format war helped consumers in any way, you might have a point. Clearly it doesn't help anybody so you just sound stupid.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By SavagePotato on 1/5/08, Rating: 0
RE: Clearly chosen ????
By Shining Arcanine on 1/5/2008 4:59:09 PM , Rating: 2
How did European Union force fair play on any of the companies you mentioned? The only thing I was able to observe the European Union do was perform an act of extortion and pat themselves on the back for supposedly helping people when if they accomplished anything, they made things worse.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By SavagePotato on 1/5/08, Rating: 0
RE: Clearly chosen ????
By SlyNine on 1/7/2008 2:19:57 AM , Rating: 2
Go post on youtube... maybe somone there will buy that bs.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By Shining Arcanine on 1/5/2008 4:55:08 PM , Rating: 2
I know "how he came to the conclusion that consumers have 'clearly chosen' Blu-Ray." It is very simple really. Every time a company does something, they say everything they can to introject positive qualities into it. Since Warner Bros is going with Blu-Ray, they say that Blu-Ray is what everyone wants, patting themselves on the back for doing it, even if it is not true. If Warner Bros. were to switch to HD-DVD a month from now, they will be saying that HD-DVD is what everyone wants and pat themselves on the back for it.

The rationale for saying such things is illogical, but the pattern is not.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By Locutus465 on 1/5/2008 8:08:33 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, I can't wait untill more deatils about what happened come to light... I think dropping HD DVD was a mistake, I do happen to own both already so I'm not screwed or anything, but I still *much* prefer HD DVD to BluRay. Espeacially with all this profiles stuff that is going on, my player for instance (Samsung DB-P1400) is only a P1.0 player, so eventually I'll have to upgrade it to a Profile 2.0.

Also, transitioning customers from DVD to Bluray isn't going to be as smooth and neat. With HD DVD studios could just opt (for a period of time) to only realease HD DVD combo discs, then gradually drop the DVD side. BD doesn't offer any solution this nice.


RE: Clearly chosen ????
By Christopher1 on 1/5/2008 11:48:44 PM , Rating: 1
I hate to say this, but with the sales of PS3's (very high despite everything)...... the market has chosen Blu-Ray now.

I wish that wasn't the case, since I liked HD-DVD better, but I am just going to have to buy a Blu-Ray burner and lump it.


Good riddance to both formats.
By aju on 1/4/2008 4:40:08 PM , Rating: 2
I hope Microsoft is coming up with an online download format. What we need is a online media downloading service that for a decent monthly subscription price (No more than $30) will allow us to download any form of modern digital media (Movies, Music, Games, Books, etc…) and use it in whatever device we want for our personal entertainment. That is what consumers really need. They can take all the other crap they are forcing on us and stick it where the sun rarely shines.




RE: Good riddance to both formats.
By Sanity on 1/4/2008 4:51:00 PM , Rating: 5
And then after paying all of this money, I end up with nothing to show for it. Nothing physical anyway. I personally like having something to hold when I spend money. Disk drives can fail, and data can be corrupted. And I can easily let family or freinds borrow my dvd's.

No, I don't like the idea of getting rid of physical media. Maybe that's just me though.


RE: Good riddance to both formats.
By SirLucius on 1/4/2008 4:56:51 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed. I prefer physical media hands down. I do end up ripping my music and movies to my hard drives, but there's something to be said for having a physical copy of something. Even for the little bit of music I've bought digitally, I end up backing it up to a CD or DVD. Call me old fashioned, but I'd like to see physical media used for a good while longer.


RE: Good riddance to both formats.
By Noya on 1/4/2008 5:09:19 PM , Rating: 2
Not just that, but having to use my own bandwidth? It better be cheap...


By Christopher1 on 1/5/2008 11:52:01 PM , Rating: 1
Why? Most service plans are unlimited uploading and downloading. Heck, for all the whining I have heard about Comcast limiting download bandwidth if you go over a certain amount....... I downloaded nearly a TERABYTE in December and uploaded about 1/4 that.... and didn't hear one complaint from them!

Maybe we just have better people in Aberdeen, MD, who don't whine about bandwidth as long as people are paying the almost $50 bucks a month for cable internet.


By pomaikai on 1/4/2008 5:22:06 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
And I can easily let family or freinds borrow my dvd's.


You better do this while you can. If MPAA had there way you will would have to buy a license for everyone that watches your disc.


RE: Good riddance to both formats.
By FITCamaro on 1/4/2008 5:56:00 PM , Rating: 2
I'm with you. I like having a disc. I'll buy it, rip it to my computer, and keep the disc as the backup.


By Gio6518 on 1/5/2008 12:12:07 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'm with you. I like having a disc. I'll buy it, rip it to my computer, and keep the disc as the backup.


i rip to hard drive for iPod for my kids and the biggest kid ME for road trips...

nothing like carrying a couple hundred movies with you wherever you go


By RMTimeKill on 1/11/2008 5:02:53 PM , Rating: 2
Physical media is over rated, kids scratch them, they wear out, house burns down and they are gone, etc...

With downloadable media you can have Thor himself send his hammer smashing your house to bits, oh noes, computer is goooonnnee!!!

Ok, build a new one, log in, and download what you have already paid for... There are many pro's to digital media, physical media is for those afraid of change!

HPTC's ftw!!


RE: Good riddance to both formats.
By BansheeX on 1/4/2008 7:59:38 PM , Rating: 2
Big reasons why movies/games will never take off as a downloadable format like music did:

-filesizes are huge and not yet feasible from a bandwidth standpoint, probably never for games which will get endlessly larger as we move towards virtual reality.
-totally anti-climactic as a gift
-hard drive space issues will become a problem very quickly unless you transfer them onto physical media (which you were trying to get away from to begin with)
-impossible or highly difficult to transfer to and from different players/houses.
-absolutely NO resale value


RE: Good riddance to both formats.
By djc208 on 1/4/2008 9:26:19 PM , Rating: 2
-You're not going to get instant gratification but if you've got a broadband connection what's letting it download overnight to get a couple of GB for a game. Many will let you pre-load new games before they release so you have a couple of MB worth of data to download and install on release day and can be up and playing in minutes. Movies can be played as they are downloaded and with all the people with Netflix or Blockbuster online what's the difference between selecting a movie and waiting a day or two for it to be delivered vs selecting the movie and waiting a couple of hours for it to be downloaded?

- HD space is cheap and it's only getting cheaper. A 500GB HDD will run you about $100. 1 TB drives a little more than twice that. You can put a lot of crap, games included on a 500 GB HDD.

-What resale value? Very little of this stuff is legally allowed to be re-sold, and outside of that usually isn't worth much, why do you think it's so cheap to buy used media?

The key to the down loaded content is price. All these companies want me to download a movie or game that can't be easily moved, transcoded, or loaned and I only save a buck or two over getting a hard copy with fewer or none of these limitations.

Who wants an e-book for $10 that can't be loaned to a friend, transferred to other formats or devices when for $12 or less I could get the paperback with none of those limitations?


RE: Good riddance to both formats.
By BansheeX on 1/5/2008 12:06:14 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
HD space is cheap and it's only getting cheaper. A 500GB HDD will run you about $100. 1 TB drives a little more than twice that. You can put a lot of crap, games included on a 500 GB HDD.


That's only 25 HD movies. No porn, music, or games included.

quote:
What resale value? Very little of this stuff is legally allowed to be re-sold, and outside of that usually isn't worth much, why do you think it's so cheap to buy used media?


Speak for yourself. I just sold Symphony of the night for the PS1 on ebay for 3x what I paid for it eight years ago.


By dutchMasta on 1/5/2008 6:02:54 AM , Rating: 2
You *could* rip it instead of copying the image. Then you could have about 70 HD movies, which, I think is more than enough for most people. If you can afford 70 HD movies, you can probably afford several big HDs.


RE: Good riddance to both formats.
By djc208 on 1/5/2008 7:06:37 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
That's only 25 HD movies. No porn, music, or games included.


Assuming you have a full disk and copy all the extras, menus, sound tracks, etc. Put just the movie on there and that number goes up, maybe double. In a downloadable format all the extras and crap can easily be streamed from the net, it's not usually HD content anyway.

Like I said, if the price is right it will work. If I can download the movie for $10 less than buying the disk then the hard disk pays for itself in the $250+ you save in downloading the content.

quote:
Speak for yourself. I just sold Symphony of the night for the PS1 on ebay for 3x what I paid for it eight years ago.


Ok, but that's the exception rather than the rule. It's also based on not being able to get it any more. If Sony starts pulling a Nintendo and offering games like this for download you'd probably have been lucky to get the download price for it.
You might get $10 or $15 for your $20 to $30 DVD, much higher and most people will just buy it new.


By noirsoft on 1/6/2008 4:26:00 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Ok, but that's the exception rather than the rule. It's also based on not being able to get it any more. If Sony starts pulling a Nintendo and offering games like this for download you'd probably have been lucky to get the download price for it.


Castlevania: SOTN is available for $10 from Xbox live for the 360, and the remake for the PSP is $30 (and includes another Castlevania came) -- It just goes to show that some people will always overpay for a "collector's item" even when the exact same content can be had for a cheaper price.


RE: Good riddance to both formats.
By kinnoch on 1/5/2008 2:02:36 AM , Rating: 2
HD isn't a problem if you have a service like steam. The games are tied to my account. I can redownload them at will when I am ready to play them.

The only downside to that is if Steam begins to suck in the future, or if I have to start using multiple services to manage my games.


RE: Good riddance to both formats.
By djc208 on 1/5/2008 7:18:23 AM , Rating: 2
I was thinking of this when I wrote my reply. Steam isn't perfect but it's not bad either. You can pre-load most games before the're released. You can back up the game onto a DVD if you want a hard copy and you can log into steam from any computer and download, install, and run the game.


RE: Good riddance to both formats.
By MrTeal on 1/5/2008 11:23:02 AM , Rating: 3
While that might work for games, a 20GB movie is another story. My download speeds tend to be about 100kBps, maybe 120-130 if I'm not using the connection for anything else. Not spectacular, but I'd guess fairly average for a lot of DSL users. At 100kBps, it would take 55 hrs to download a movie. Not only would I not get instant gratification, I'd tie up my internet connection for better than two days. Even if I went through that once, I sure wouldn't want to do it again in 6 months when I want to watch it again. Sure I could archive it onto a BR disc, but that kind of defeats the point.

Unfortunately I see movies taking a path similar to music, where people unthinkingly download 192kbps DRM-neutered tracks for a buck when they could just go out and buy an album for the same price or less as all the songs on iTunes, get higher quality audio, the physical media, and all the album art.

Why would I want to pay for a lower quality movie with less extras, that I have to subsidize delivery costs on, wait a couple days to get, and can only watch a couple times before shrinking HD space forces me to burn it onto a $20 blank BR disc or delete it?


RE: Good riddance to both formats.
By djc208 on 1/5/2008 12:41:57 PM , Rating: 2
I think the first iteration of this is going to be a rental type setup more than a purchase. Netflix is already moving that direction but I see a set-top box or computer program that would allow you to set up your movie list and then start downloading those movies until the available or allocated space was full. Once you've watched the movie you can mark it "viewed" and the software would delete it and start using that space for the next one on your list.

At that point they could easily offer a "buy it" button that stripped any DRM off the file and dumped it to a different file location for you to burn or keep as you desired for a couple of extra bucks.

Even at 55 hours (for HD content with extras) after the initial group is downloaded the wait for the next download would be no worse than the turnaound time for Netflix now, and better as broadband speeds increase. If you regularly load your internet connection the extra data could cause problems, but I think most people have broadband for speed, not volume. I'm paying for 24/7 connectivity, might as well be using it more than the couple of hours I'm actually home on the internet each day.


RE: Good riddance to both formats.
By Belard on 1/7/2008 2:45:23 AM , Rating: 1
Yeah... like we DON'T have enough microsoft in our lives. If vista wasn't so DRMed to death, it might have been a worthwhile upgrade over vista... (When a 2GB XP Pro is STILL faster than a 4GB Vista 64bit)

Anyways... Lets see... you DOWNLOAD movies to your computer or set-top box... Its on a HD... you get a virus, the hard drive failes, you upgrade your compuer... guess what? That $10 download you have is TIED to that HARDWARE device!!

My DVD player dies (I have replaced 2 in 7 years) - not a big deal. $100, new player (Nowadays $50)... Or I can take it to a friends place, drop it in his play and wow, it works!

Hence: Downloads are fine for little-portable players... not big-screen TVs.


By clockerspiel on 1/4/2008 6:55:29 PM , Rating: 1
Get ready for more DRM from Sony:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Pictures

http://www.zoom-in.com/press_release/2006/11/starz...

http://netforbeginners.about.com/b/2007/10/14/sony...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb5053/is_20...

Columbia, MGM, who's next?

Sony...Warner Bros...they're in bed together.

By the way, just purchased "Resident Evil Extinction" but cannot play it on my PC with Cyberlink's PowerDVD because of Sony's DRM. The blasted disk wants to force me to download the movie to my pc, therein eating up valuable hard drive space. I will never again purchase a Sony published movie because of this crud (shades of the Sony rootkit fiasco!) Plays OK on a set top DVD player, but not on the pc without downloading the file and possibly incurring rootkits and other DRM hogwash.




By Chiggs on 1/4/2008 6:58:52 PM , Rating: 2
Wow, an angry DRM post in the wake of a Sony victory. What other wonders will this day serve up? One can only dream!


By BansheeX on 1/4/2008 7:43:05 PM , Rating: 2
DRM is a necessary evil to get these paranoid studios releasing films in HD. You know damn well that if Toshiba owned a music studio, they'd be suing P2Pers like everyone else. And you also know that if blu-ray had truly intrusive DRM, it would fail as fast and hard as rootkit products did. Just wait for it to get cracked like DVD and stop feeding into the Sony hategroup frenzy.


By Master Kenobi (blog) on 1/4/2008 7:56:38 PM , Rating: 4
Yea the DRM has been cracked for those that need it (Pirates, China, etc...) It does impact regular users trying to play Blu-Ray legitimately on a PC though, its fine on stand alone players.

Regardless this still won't put the war to bed. It's no different than when Disney or Universal announced their exclusive support of one medium. The real winners will be the hybrid players. I doubt you will see HD DVD owners running out to buy Blu-Ray players, infact this may make them reconsider buying any HD format. On the flip side had they gone HD DVD exclusive, you would not have seen Blu-Ray owners run out to buy HD DVD players. Given how troublesome the HD format battle is, and Warner's backpedal from supporting both to just one, many people will hold off buying anything.

Frankly, I'm an HD DVD supporter, and until such time as I can go out and pickup a dual format hybrid player (1080p) for around 200-250 I won't be buying any Blu-Ray title and will stick with regular DVD's when necessary or continue to buy HD DVD's. Only thing Warner has done here is kill their own sales in the short term. This is more of a long term gamble for them though.


By sweetsauce on 1/4/2008 8:58:17 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed, couldn't say it better myself.


By lopri on 1/4/2008 10:48:04 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Yea the DRM has been cracked for those that need it (Pirates, China, etc...) It does impact regular users trying to play Blu-Ray legitimately on a PC though, its fine on stand alone players. Regardless this still won't put the war to bed. It's no different than when Disney or Universal announced their exclusive support of one medium. The real winners will be the hybrid players. I doubt you will see HD DVD owners running out to buy Blu-Ray players, infact this may make them reconsider buying any HD format. On the flip side had they gone HD DVD exclusive, you would not have seen Blu-Ray owners run out to buy HD DVD players. Given how troublesome the HD format battle is, and Warner's backpedal from supporting both to just one, many people will hold off buying anything. Frankly, I'm an HD DVD supporter, and until such time as I can go out and pickup a dual format hybrid player (1080p) for around 200-250 I won't be buying any Blu-Ray title and will stick with regular DVD's when necessary or continue to buy HD DVD's. Only thing Warner has done here is kill their own sales in the short term. This is more of a long term gamble for them though.


Quoted for future reference. :) This is the most ridiculous and bitter, yet probably most honest, statement I've seen from a HD-DVD supporter with the issue at hand.

In a B&M shop, high definition media (Blu-Ray/HD-DVD) sells for $30, and SD-DVD for $20. If you're more internet savvy, you can often find a high definition media for cheaper than SD-DVD. Are you saying that you'd rather waste your money on SD-DVD, because of your remorse? If you have seen the difference between 480p and 1080p, you'd have been really brain-washed to pay $20 for a 480p media.

And you go ahead and say that everyone will do the same. Ha, fat chance. Oh and dual-format, my ass. Sure I'd love it if it's actually affordable. (remember this is the argument often used by HD-DVD supporters?) Unless dual-format player is at the same or lower price than a Blu-Ray player, why would anyone buy (or make) a dual-format player? I mean, if there is nothing to watch?

Get over yourself.


By Master Kenobi (blog) on 1/4/2008 11:57:14 PM , Rating: 1
Don't expect any HD DVD owner to run out and buy a dedicated Blu-Ray player just because of this news. It will be hybrid or nothing. Especially for those with large libraries.


By Spuke on 1/5/2008 2:19:58 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Don't expect any HD DVD owner to run out and buy a dedicated Blu-Ray player just because of this news.

I sure as hell won't be doing that. When BD gets down to $100, I'll pick one up just like I did HD DVD. Until then, it'll be HD DVD's (don't actually own any yet...waiting for the free one's) and DVD's.


By djc208 on 1/5/2008 6:52:44 AM , Rating: 2
Well for this HD-DVD owner he's right. If HD-DVD called it quits tomorrow I'm still not going out to blow $400 on a blue-ray player (that's still probably not version 1.1 or 1.2 or something capable so I'll have a $400 blue-ray "light" player that is technically obsolete already) and I don't really want a PS3 so the added functionality is a waste for me. If I have to own a movie that's blue-ray only I'll get the DVD, otherwise I'll buy/rent the HD-DVD when possible.

I didn't buy the player because I love the format, I bought it because I love HD and it was cheap. In typical Sony fashion you're going to pay for the privlidge of using their crap. Toss me a BD player that supports their lastest Java "me too" feature set for $200 and I'll probably have one of them too.

If I can get the hybrid player for $50 or $100 more I'd probably do that instead. One less component to worry about, and I can always give the HD-DVD player to someone else.


By lopri on 1/6/2008 7:54:25 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe you can go check it out yourself:

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/showthread.php?t=3...

It seems like not every high-definition video/audio lovers are a teeth-grinder like yourself.


By BansheeX on 1/5/2008 2:11:56 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Regardless this still won't put the war to bed. It's no different than when Disney or Universal announced their exclusive support of one medium. The real winners will be the hybrid players. I doubt you will see HD DVD owners running out to buy Blu-Ray players, infact this may make them reconsider buying any HD format. On the flip side had they gone HD DVD exclusive, you would not have seen Blu-Ray owners run out to buy HD DVD players.


I realize how badly you want to rationalize dual format persisting forever, but it won't happen. When the few remaining HD-DVD exclusives see blu-ray's superior sales and further realize that the power to make HD as profitable as DVD was rests in their hands, they are going to switch and end this. You're looking at this in a very biased and short-term perspective. As an HD-DVD early adopter, you represent a very small number of people compared to the eventual mainstream buyer. If HD-DVD movies can all be had on Blu-Ray and HD-DVD media is no longer sold, what incentive will all these new buyers have to buy a more expensive dual format player? Zero. The industry doesn't care about maintaining backwards compatibility for the few people who bought the losing format. It didn't happen when betamax lost, and it won't happen this time either.


By SavagePotato on 1/5/2008 2:18:01 PM , Rating: 1
There were beta/vhs dual format players, and they dried up and dissapeared eventualy.

In the coming months it would be surprising if the remaining hd-dvd only studios continued to back it for any length of time. Analysts usualy aren't worth putting much stock in, but this time I would agree with the few analyst comments I have read that the remaining three are no doubt looking for the escape clause in their hd-dvd contracts furiously.

If there is any company releasing hd-dvd after this summer I would be surprised.


By Gio6518 on 1/5/2008 12:18:31 AM , Rating: 2
plays with anydvd running in the background for me

www.slysoft.com

drm is in everything look at vista

even HD-DVD had a copy protection it was just and easy one to crack, then the didnt pursue it farther, and tried to use it as a marketing ploy, but you can rest assure that if HD-DVD would of become the dominant format they would of implemented it fiercely


So another over paid idiot CEO screws up
By neilrieck on 1/4/2008 7:40:38 PM , Rating: 1
So another over paid idiot CEO srews up. I thought studios would want to market their entertainment to the largest possible market. The best way to do this is to offer both formats until the dust settles. But by picking one format over antoher, they immediately reduce their current HI-DEF market. But there is another way to look at this: since HD-DVD players are cheaper (on average) by more than $100, eventually more people in the world would eventually own them. This would result in a much larger world market to sell Hollywood content. By choosing the more expensive technology now, this CEO has just limited his future market. He has shot himself, and his investors, in the foot.




RE: So another over paid idiot CEO screws up
By Chiggs on 1/4/2008 8:14:16 PM , Rating: 4
There's really not a nice way for me to phrase this, but I feel it must be said: You have no idea what you're talking about and furthermore, you're spreading false hope.

This is the killing blow to HD-DVD. I'm going to say that again: killing blow. It couldn't win one sales week last year--NOT ONE! And now they're losing WB after May? They are done for and all I need is time to prove my point.


RE: So another over paid idiot CEO screws up
By sweetsauce on 1/4/2008 9:01:24 PM , Rating: 2
With over 6 million ps3's out there, of course its going to sell more movies. Looking at the bigger picture, its the small margin of sales lead that it has over hd-dvd that would worry me but im sure thats not important as long as its winning right?


RE: So another over paid idiot CEO screws up
By Chiggs on 1/4/2008 9:47:46 PM , Rating: 2
Well, it mattered to Warner Bros, and that's all that really mattered in the end, despite the claims of a pay-off.

And a 65-35 sales lead YTD is nothing to sneeze at. Sour grapes strike again.


RE: So another over paid idiot CEO screws up
By mcnabney on 1/5/2008 12:19:40 AM , Rating: 2
They were paid off. But that isn't the problem. It is the deliberate false statements they made beforehand.


RE: So another over paid idiot CEO screws up
By ATC on 1/5/2008 12:54:57 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
They were paid off. But that isn't the problem. It is the deliberate false statements they made beforehand.

Not quite. This is in line with all companies' policies. Remember when MSFT said they had no plans to release an HDMI-equipped 360 until, of course, the day that HDMI-equipped 360s were announced. Companies cannot spill the beans until announcement day. Get used to it.

On a side note; why is every one so up in arms at the thought, and it is just a thought right now, that they got paid for this. Did you feel the same way when Paramount, Dreamworks and Universal got paid for their loyalty? Talk about double standards.


RE: So another over paid idiot CEO screws up
By mcnabney on 1/5/2008 2:05:55 AM , Rating: 2
I think that collusion in the market in order to impose a monopoly or standard is against the very idea of a free market.

There are two products available. Let the best format win, or better yet, eliminate the fight altogether by making dual format players the standard.

Worked for DTS vs Dolby Digital
Worked for all the silly recordable media formats


By ATC on 1/5/2008 12:27:06 PM , Rating: 2
All CE companies except for Toshiba and MSFT were fully behind BD, and so were most of the studios. This format war was never meant to happen and it shouldn't have. Consumers were the ones to lose the most.

The HD-DVD group alone is to blame for dragging this. They had no chance at all at beating BD. All they could ever hope for was a stalemate, hardly the best choice for consumers and a sure way to confuse them endlessly. And they were on their way to doing just that with their payouts to insure studios' loyalties.

Some people seem to think that all of a sudden if BD won, Sony's DRM will spread like a virus, BD players will jump to a $1000 and BD movies will go up to $50 a pop. It's the opposite that's true. Once we have a unified format, the cost for studios, retailers, CE companies and ultimately consumers will drop like a rock. And that is in the best interest of consumers. The HD-DVD PR group will have you thinking otherwise.


By BansheeX on 1/4/2008 8:26:26 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
So another over paid idiot CEO srews up. I thought studios would want to market their entertainment to the largest possible market.


A single format victory is the largest possible market. Perpetually fighting dual formats has the potential to make it a permanently niche format over mainstream DVD.

quote:
But there is another way to look at this: since HD-DVD players are cheaper (on average) by more than $100, eventually more people in the world would eventually own them.


HD-DVD won't continue to be made if it loses, and blu-ray will invariably continue to drop in price until it, too, reaches rock bottom prices.


By Belard on 1/7/2008 3:03:02 AM , Rating: 2
Not so... Offering BOTH formats of a simular format - COSTS the studios, stores money and keeps people like me and most others on the fence...

Why did I not buy a DVD Burner until only 2 years ago, the R+ R- war. I still DON'T own a DVD-Recorder because I don't think the life-span of DVDR is more than a year or so. But as of now, those units DO burn and PLAY +/-.

This IS PART of settling the DUST... this is the proccess. When Parmount went to HD-DVD, it added confusion... WB might have dumped HD-DVD even faster... but now, only 20% market share Paramount/Universal are left and the preassure on them just went up a BIG NOTCH.

Movies that HD-DVD players CAN'T play: Pixar, Diseny films. Cars, The Incredables, Pirates of the Car~...

Note: WB said "We're going to BluRay - period" - Parmount said "We got paid $150 to be HD-DVD for 18 months", THAT made things worse...

And HD-DVD is not $100 cheapers. Toshiba's are $250~300 for the A3. The re-badge low-bin Toshiba under the venturea label (90 day warranty) is $200 at Walmart (online). At my local walmart - Toshiba A3 = $299, SONY's $288 ( don't know why) online = $250 vs $348... but SONY does do 1080p. Samsung is supposed to have a $300 player now. And when more people are BUYING BR players, then the cost to manufacture GOES DOWN.

The cheapest HD-DVD with 1080p = $400~500. A30 and A35.


By chick0n on 1/7/2008 10:42:48 AM , Rating: 1
Hey, Smartass.

so WB's CEO is an idiot huh? yep he is.

What are you then huh ? a loser who cries because you know that you losers are losing the battle ?

Not to mention he is an idiot thats making millions of dollars every year, and you? sitting @ home posting on DT ?

You better shut your mouth b4 you embarrass yourself even more.


Good News
By Sanity on 1/4/2008 4:36:48 PM , Rating: 2
I'm glad to hear this. Blu-Ray is coming down in price, and it looks spectacular in HD. I've been starting a small Blu-Ray library, and I don't want to have to mess around with asking stores if they carry something in Blu-Ray anymore. I hope this is all over and done with in the not to distant future. It'll probably cut costs for the studios by concentrating on only one format too.

I think Sony made a good decision with the PS3, and it's starting to show. I'm enjoying mine.




RE: Good News
By OxBow on 1/4/2008 4:46:21 PM , Rating: 2
ditto


RE: Good News
By Sanity on 1/4/2008 4:55:05 PM , Rating: 2
Wow, did I get rated down just for mentioning my PS3?? Tough croud. :/


RE: Good News
By Etsp on 1/4/2008 5:09:21 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
I think Sony made a good decision with the PS3, and it's starting to show.
I think thats where you lost the crowd... I like a lot of things about the PS3... I like how they support linux and how the hard drive isn't proprietary... but I don't like the way it boots into linux... the way the bootloader is implemented should be different, I shouldn't have to type "boot-game-os" every time I want to play a game...


RE: Good News
By Sanity on 1/4/2008 5:24:13 PM , Rating: 2
Hmm...I really don't know anything about Linux or putting it on a PS3. I was really only referring to it's Blu-ray capabilities. Are the PS3's Linux capabilities something the average consumer is interested in? I look at it as a game machine with the added bonus of playing anything but HD-DVD's. And so far it performs very well at both of those.


RE: Good News
By FITCamaro on 1/4/2008 5:58:38 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I shouldn't have to type "boot-game-os" every time I want to play a game...


Are you actually serious?


RE: Good News
By michal1980 on 1/4/2008 7:02:04 PM , Rating: 2
maybe in linux.

but normally no, all you do is click the icon on for the game you want to play, on the xmb and it starts up.


RE: Good News
By aos007 on 1/4/2008 7:20:59 PM , Rating: 2
If you set the PS3 to boot linux, you will have to type "boot-game-os" once linux is booted in order to get to XMB. I don't think it's possible to select what to boot interactively upon turning on the console. Even though I have linux installed on it, I never booted it again past the first few times, mainly for this reason - you have no easy way to switch between the two or select upon boot.

Of course if all you have is standard console setup, you may set it up to start up the game automatically. The console will auto start if you push a disc into the slot load drive, as well.


Holding out on purchase
By pomaikai on 1/4/2008 4:48:22 PM , Rating: 4
I have been holding out on a HD player until someone wins. Was hoping it was HD-DVD. If BD wins I will have to wait longer to buy a player until they stop adding new profiles because they released an uncomplete product.




RE: Holding out on purchase
By FITCamaro on 1/4/2008 6:02:44 PM , Rating: 4
A good point. Blu-ray still isn't finalized. HD-DVD has been set in stone since day one. I'm sure improvements will eventually come out, but this crap with Blu-ray is ridiculous. They're adding features over a year after its been released. And not all Blu-ray players have an ethernet port, so those that don't can't be updated without sending it in or getting a disc from the manufacturer, which consumers don't want to have to do.


RE: Holding out on purchase
By Gio6518 on 1/5/2008 12:37:13 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
A good point. Blu-ray still isn't finalized. HD-DVD has been set in stone since day one. I'm sure improvements will eventually come out, but this crap with Blu-ray is ridiculous. They're adding features over a year after its been released. And not all Blu-ray players have an ethernet port, so those that don't can't be updated without sending it in or getting a disc from the manufacturer, which consumers don't want to have to do.


this is without the dumbest post on this topic

just download and burn to disc..

http://www.blu-ray.com/firmware/firmware.php

(just used their web site for reference can use vendors personal website)

easy to do and you can even virus scan it first to make sure you dont trash your player

i do low-voltage wiring for new home construction and 85% of the people out there don't have a phone jack much less an ethernet port behind their main TV, and even less have them available for secondary TV's


RE: Holding out on purchase
By Schadenfroh on 1/4/2008 10:24:16 PM , Rating: 3
The PS3 is a profile 1.1 player, from reading over the specs, it should only require a firmware update to become profile 2.0, similar to how it was updated to profile 1.1 from 1.0 recently:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc#Player_p...

If you want IR, there are third party USB IR adapters for it that work with Logitech remotes, at least (probably more).


I'm Swiss, but was rooting for HD-DVD
By edved on 1/4/2008 5:10:36 PM , Rating: 1
I'm curious to see how the HD-DVD consortium responds to this. I have both, but prefer HD-DVD. Blu blows.




RE: I'm Swiss, but was rooting for HD-DVD
By Spuke on 1/4/2008 6:55:10 PM , Rating: 2
Why does Bluray blow, it's the same thing as HD DVD?. I bought a HD DVD player cause it only cost me $100. If it was a $100 Bluray player, I would've bought that. Both formats output the same friggin picture. Neither is a bad choice although my money goes to the cheaper one right now.


RE: I'm Swiss, but was rooting for HD-DVD
By saiga6360 on 1/4/2008 7:19:58 PM , Rating: 2
So if they are the same, why Blu-Ray? You seem to be contradicting yourself with your own bias.


RE: I'm Swiss, but was rooting for HD-DVD
By Spuke on 1/5/2008 2:26:15 AM , Rating: 2
They ARE the same and I'm not biased! I watched both on my TV and the picture is EXACTLY the same! I watched both on a friends TV and the picture is EXACTLY the same! I bought a HD DVD player because it cost $100. That's the ONLY reason I bought it. Otherwise, I'd still be on the sideline laughing at all you silly fanboys arguing over media formats. Like I said in this thread, if Bluray was $100, I'd own one of those instead of HD DVD.


By saiga6360 on 1/5/2008 5:04:39 PM , Rating: 2
Ok, I get what you are saying now. I thought you meant if both were at the same price point you would have picked Blu-ray which is kind of contradictory.

I agree with your about the sad state of fanboyism over this 'war' which I why I chose to circumvent it entirely by going dual-format with the LG drive. It didn't really matter to me then and it still does not matter now. It will probably still take about a year for any of this to matter entirely as DVD will still dominate among all formats.


By boogle on 1/5/2008 2:54:29 PM , Rating: 3
Technically they ARE the same, they use the exact same codecs. In some cases Blu-Ray uses MPEG2 because of the capacity advantage, reducing image quality. Other than those exceptions, they are identical from a visual point of view.

Having said that, the lower Blu-Ray profiles mean that the bitrates (and sound codecs) are sometimes inferior on the Blu-Ray discs. It's unfortunate that Blu-Ray was released before profile 2.0.


Out of nowhere
By rupaniii on 1/4/2008 11:44:41 PM , Rating: 2
I work for a BluRay favoring company.
There weren't any real rumblings of this.
It's exclusively Warner's decision.
They have alot of crossover with the Disney audience, when you throw Disney's subsidiaries in the mix.
So, it really made sense if Warner wanted to end this to go to BluRay. Warner on HDDVD exclusively is would have caused this to be a stalemate for years.

I hope this ends it, as BluRay really did devastate HDDVD over the holiday. You'll see the numbers shortly.




RE: Out of nowhere
By NullSubroutine on 1/5/2008 3:36:23 AM , Rating: 2
you mean how the week before christmas blueray/hd-dvd was split 50/50 for sales?


RE: Out of nowhere
By bplewis24 on 1/5/2008 12:12:03 PM , Rating: 2
The week before christmas was 61-39 for BD.

Brandon


RE: Out of nowhere
By NullSubroutine on 1/5/2008 2:55:02 PM , Rating: 2
it was 50/50 if you do not count bundled free movies for either side the week of dec 25th. i actually submitted the article to daily tech when it came out but they never published it, dont know if the research has a problem but that was the numbers.

http://www.dvdempire.com/Content/Features/hidef_wa...

apparently they changed their numbers it did say 50/50 when it was reported on amazon. so i guess i am wrong, but it did say 50/50 when i first looked at the article.


RE: Out of nowhere
By MrTeal on 1/7/2008 4:14:00 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Who's winning the Hi Def war? See for yourself. The information below reflects the percentage of our overall Hi Def items sold by format.


From the link you posted, it appears those numbers are just from DVD Empire's sales. One retailer doesn't reflect the entire market.


Does this not worry anyone
By Ratinator on 1/4/2008 5:11:48 PM , Rating: 2
This bugs me to no end. Warner Brothers is one of the most outspoken companies in terms of digital rights management. They have now sided with the one company that wants to impose some of the strictest DRM laws around. It won't be many years down the road before Sony pushes on us the inability to play a DVD in more than one DVD player.

I don't believe for one second that Warner Bros. chose to go with Sony to give the consumer what they wanted. They chose Sony because they have a combined interest in DRM.




RE: Does this not worry anyone
By Murst on 1/4/2008 5:25:29 PM , Rating: 2
That doesn't make much sense.

The inclusion of DRM is up to the publisher. Sony provided a universal method for all BR media to use their DRM. Now, whether the movie studios choose to use this or not is up to them. There's nothing that forces the publishers to use BD+ (in fact, I don't think anyone uses it yet). So far, the DRM used on BR discs was the same as on HD-DVD, I believe.

I think we've already began to see the death of DRM in music. Hopefully, by the end of the year, DRM in music will be a thing of the past. The same fate will hopefully meet DRM in movies.


RE: Does this not worry anyone
By EidolWays on 1/4/2008 5:40:39 PM , Rating: 2
It's still a play into Sony's proprietary format. The HD-DVD format was at least the product of a consortium. Despite Microsoft's support, it's not Microsoft's baby. Blu-Ray, however, is Sony-spawn. I don't personally trust Sony with that kind of leverage in the market.

Of course, Sony really should ask themselves how they came to have this image in the market, anyway. Rootkits, anyone?


RE: Does this not worry anyone
By BansheeX on 1/4/2008 7:16:04 PM , Rating: 2
This "consortium" you reference also initially wanted to create a red laser HD format with aggressive compression schemes because it would be cheaper for them to milk their old manufacturing equipment by updating it. And this was being done at the same time that Sony and others were pushing for the blu-ray spec. The consortium was incompetent. Sony and friends had it right from the beginning and wanted the next format to push blue laser potential for all it was worth despite cost grievances.

Sony may have an idiotic PR department and a legion of MS-loving detractors who want nothing more than to see them fail this round, but they have developed three stunning consoles and two other invaluable and long-lasting formats in 3.5" floppy disks and the CD-ROM. If you want to focus on the mistakes, though, that's your call.


RE: Does this not worry anyone
By sweetsauce on 1/4/08, Rating: -1
By Shining Arcanine on 1/5/2008 5:02:27 PM , Rating: 2
The consortium made a standard that costs less than what Sony made. Lower costs are better for everyone and are passed on in part and eventually (as competition proceeds over years) in full to end users.


Not the right time...
By crimson40 on 1/4/2008 4:46:23 PM , Rating: 4
They claim that this is the right time to make this decsion, but I would argue that they should have made this decision BEFORE the holiday season, not right afterwards. Now, they just alienated themselves from everyone who just entered into the HD market at Christmas and chose HD-DVD (like myself).

HD-DVD/Blu-Ray in my opinion is a temporary medium anyhow (HD digital downloads). There is NO way that I would go out and buy a Blu-Ray player as well, so for WB content that is not available in HD-DVD, I would only purchase in SD (or digital download). So, WB misses out on my discretionary income... I can always find something else to spend my money on. :)




RE: Not the right time...
By MonkeyPaw on 1/4/2008 6:20:46 PM , Rating: 2
Personally, the only HD thing that seems "worth it" to me is sporting events. Since those are live events, it looks like both formats will have a hard time winning me over. Even as I watch standard DVDs on my standard DVD player, I don't find myself longing for more--IQ is great already. With that in mind, paying more for both an HD player and then another premium for the HD version of every movie seems rather excessive and unnecessary to me.

This is so much different than the move from VHS to DVD. VHS had obvious weaknesses that DVD overcame, but "HD" DVDs aren't as revolutionary of a jump unless your HDTV is bigger than your dining room table. In fact, I doubt I'll get any form of high-definition player until it's about all that is sold in stores. Considering that many people probably still have a perfectly good SDTV in their home tells me that HD has a long way to go before it is commonplace, no matter what format takes over.


RE: Not the right time...
By Spuke on 1/4/2008 6:46:31 PM , Rating: 2
Sporting events are my driving factor but most of my favorite channels are HD now too and the pictures WAY better than SD.


Umm REALLY
By munim on 1/4/2008 8:48:02 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
HD DVD players and PCs have outsold Blu-ray in the US market in 2007


HMMMMMMMMM!!




RE: Umm REALLY
By BansheeX on 1/4/2008 9:44:49 PM , Rating: 2
I laughed at that, too. They haven't won a single week in software sales, they're about 7 million behind for players, and an edge in low PC numbers is irrelevant.


RE: Umm REALLY
By mcnabney on 1/5/2008 2:28:13 AM , Rating: 2
I believe the reference was to the fact that all HD-DVD players, stand-alone or 360-addon, are purchased solely for the need to play HD-DVD media. The PS3 is primarily a game machine. When PS3 sales are removed there have been fewer BluRay stand-alone players sold than their competitor.


RE: Umm REALLY
By BansheeX on 1/5/2008 5:16:21 PM , Rating: 2
No, I know. The usage or purpose of a device with multiple functions depends entirely on the buyer. If stand-alone sales are close to a million for both, I think discounting the PS3 entirely in order to claim statistical victory is logically retarded. We may not know the exact number, but I think it can be assumed that there are at least 500k PS3 owners who only use it as a player only, and at least two million more who use it for both games and movies. I am literally using my PS3 as a player and a gaming device. I probably watch more movies on it than many stand-alone owners. But according to Toshiba, I have no statistical relevance, simply because it has a further and more advertised function.


NOOOOOOOOO
By BillyBatson on 1/4/2008 7:03:34 PM , Rating: 3
This is aweful news. Though I do want there to be just one winner I was really hoping HD-DVD would be the format of choice. This doesn't mean victory for BD or defeat for HD-DVD but it definitely draws out the fight longer.
ALso I am tired of dailytech quoting bay every single time there is a BD vs HDDVD discussion or update. His "rampage" barely lastest before he went back on his words and his story is not important enough to refer back to every single time. bay needs to mind his own business and his "words" should fade out with him.




RE: NOOOOOOOOO
By BillyBatson on 1/4/2008 7:05:23 PM , Rating: 2
lasted*
sorry i am on norcos and totally out of it


RE: NOOOOOOOOO
By Belard on 1/7/2008 3:55:38 AM , Rating: 2
No, this does NOT draw out thw war. This helps to end it, nothing more. WB was supporting both formats, even had plans to release a dual-format disc media (that would have sucked) - When Paramount was paid $150 to be HD-DVD exclusive for 18months, it drew out the fight. They are the ONLY studio left now.

Over 70% of the Studio market is BluRay, period. Expect Universal to cross over within 60 days... and Parmount looking like retards for the next 14 months... while Michael Bay Laugh's at them. Why? Not only will they not sell market share, but the people who OWN HD-DVD players will be buying LESS and LESS HD-DVD Movies.

Example: If you were a HD-DVD owner, and Paramount or Universal is the last remaining studio making movie (When one of these companies goes, that'll leave 12% studio market in HD-DVD.... note:Paramount is bigger than Universal) - why would you BUY more movies for a dying format?

* Paramount still has BluRay Titles, they just aren't release any NEW titles for 14months.

THIS IS ANOTHER victory for BluRay and hurt HD-DVD very hard... they just lost access to another 20% of the movie business. Lets look at some WB movie titles people with HD-DVD will NOT HAVE ACCESS TO. (WB does a lot of KIDS movies and shows - so there is cross over with Diseny market)
- Harry Potter movies
- Bug Bunny
- I am Legend
- 300
- Batman Begins / The Dark Night (Sequal)
- Adv. of Pluto Nash (jk)
- Charline & the chocolate factory
- The MATRIX movies
- Oceans 11~13
- Polar Express
- TMNT
- Blade (all movies, etc)

About 2500 movies have just been taken out of the HD-DVD camp.

* I do not OWN any Playstation console or HiDef player of any sort.


That leaves HD DVD with...
By mholler on 1/4/2008 4:45:48 PM , Rating: 2
Universal, Paramount, and Dreamworks as major studios that support the format. This could indeed be the beginning of the end for them. I was actually hoping HD DVD would win, mainly because of the cheaper cost of the hardware and media, but Blue Ray seems to be taking care of business.

Well, I guess that just means I'll have to wait a bit longer for a reasonably priced player.




RE: That leaves HD DVD with...
By BladeVenom on 1/4/08, Rating: 0
RE: That leaves HD DVD with...
By walk2k on 1/4/2008 6:21:31 PM , Rating: 2
So 9 porn titles on HD-DVD then?


By Schadenfroh on 1/4/2008 10:20:36 PM , Rating: 2
The largest porn studio (has 80% of the HD porn market share) went format neutral recently.


HDDVD is done folks, end of story
By AquariusX on 1/4/2008 9:09:01 PM , Rating: 2
The New York Times made a good point on this. Time Warner is the biggest seller of Hollywood DVDs (18-20% share) and now with Warner under the belt, BR now has 70% of the market. HDDVD, I'm sorry to say, is pretty much dead. There go my hopes of a low cost HD player.




By BansheeX on 1/4/2008 9:40:11 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
There go my hopes of a low cost HD player.


For now, maybe, but not for long. Blu-ray player manufacturers will continue to compete with each other, improve yields and drop prices. Remember, DVD had no cheaper format competing with it to make it seem "more expensive." It is time to treat blu-ray as you treated DVD or any other new standard with inherently high starting prices: with patience.


By Belard on 1/7/2008 3:30:32 AM , Rating: 2
It took many years for the prices of DVD players to come down... my first one from 2001 was $285, when 2 years before they were about $500~800. By 2003, the prices were just hitting $100. Now you can get junk for $25... typical good ones for $50~75.

HD-DVD is no cheaper than BluRay... with 1080p. And the A3 sells for $250~300. The Sony / Samsung seels for $300~400. $50 or so is a DROP IN THE BUCKET compared to the cost of a $2000~4000 LCD or DLP TV set.


Oh well
By Haltech on 1/4/2008 5:46:07 PM , Rating: 2
Its quite funny to see coments saying "I was hoping HD-DVD would win b ut I guess not."
In 5 years everyone will own Blu-Ray but only 1% will actually say I love Blu-Ray




Not a game winner
By Oroka on 1/4/08, Rating: 0
RE: Not a game winner
By Chiggs on 1/4/2008 6:30:11 PM , Rating: 2
This has got to be a joke post. You know Warner owns New Line, right? Warner Bros. is every bit as big as Paramount, and with its subsidiaries, it's bigger.

Nice attempt, though. I personally enjoyed your "I hope so" parenthetical statement. Good Grief.


thank god
By R3MF on 1/4/2008 6:53:03 PM , Rating: 2
it was doing no-one any favours while HD-DVD lingered on.

the PS3 was always goings to win the game for Blu-ray.




NOOOOOOOOO
By BillyBatson on 1/4/2008 7:03:34 PM , Rating: 2
This is aweful news. Though I do want there to be just one winner I was really hoping HD-DVD would be the format of choice. This doesn't mean victory for BD or defeat for HD-DVD but it definitely draws out the fight longer.
ALso I am tired of dailytech quoting bay every single time there is a BD vs HDDVD discussion or update. His "rampage" barely lastest before he went back on his words and his story is not important enough to refer back to every single time. bay needs to mind his own business and his "words" should fade out with him.




Bourne Ultimatum
By munim on 1/4/2008 7:04:21 PM , Rating: 2
Why do people throw out silly ultimatums instead of not being idiots?




RIP HD DVD
By Chaser on 1/4/2008 7:18:45 PM , Rating: 2
Apples vs Apples
By Luna M on 1/4/08, Rating: 0
RE: Apples vs Apples
By rupaniii on 1/4/2008 11:49:42 PM , Rating: 2
Oh yeah, and Apple's also releasing a BluRay Burner for the Mac Pro, not that it stopped any of us from putting it in there already... ;)


Anandtech Thread
By Schadenfroh on 1/4/2008 10:15:20 PM , Rating: 2
Format war thread over int the forums (6th thread, I believe, gets reset every so often):

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid...

In case any of you guys wish to join in as well.




Please get the facts straight
By lexor1704 on 1/4/2008 10:27:14 PM , Rating: 2
For all you BR fan boys HD-DVD is also a blue laser, difference in the format is over the aperture size of the pick up. For those that are curious the facts are here http://www.techspot.com/articles/blu-ray_vs_hddvd/ .
HD-DVD was the adopted standard in a close vote initially but Sony in their ego driven mania to tells us what we need pushed their format after losing the official vote giving us VHS / Beta II. I cannot believe how many people have bought the PR of Sony on this and also about 1080P being True HD. HD was defined at 720P with 1080I being an enhancement to the spec. Additionally numerous studies have shown that human eyesight is incapable of telling the difference between 1080I and 1080P. Stop drinking the Kool-aid and do a little thinking. I would rather watch everything in VHS than give Sony dime one for Blu-Ray after the debacle they have caused over next gen DVD format.




By kilkennycat on 1/4/2008 11:21:07 PM , Rating: 2
... with Microsoft's help, of course. By first attaching it to the Xbox360 at the same price as the current HD-DVD drive and allowing current owners of these drives some form of trade-in price-break. The only way to save M$$/Toshiba's favorite format from the gallows of the remaining HD-DVD media-bastions such as Paramount and DreamWorks making the switch (again) is to render the consumer decision a non-issue.




download
By raphd on 1/5/2008 1:44:56 AM , Rating: 2
meh, i work at a video store and we rent both. I just download the hd movies off bittorrent since then I do not need to waste money on a player that could be obsolete. I get free rentals so its not like im hurting the company by doing this. Infact, im giving the company revenue by having the limited hd movies available for the paying customer :P




By Roffles on 1/5/2008 12:21:08 PM , Rating: 2
In a format war, the loyal trend-setting consumer will decide.

Toshiba is trying to flood the market with cheap hd-dvd players and apparently trying to buy loyalty from the studios. This seems like a poor strategy because when you offer "premium" hardware at throwaway prices, people WILL throw it away. Ownership and brand loyalty typically does not exist for the consumer-zombie Wal-Mart population. They go with the tide; they do not set the trends. This isn't the consumer you want during a format war.

Sony on the other hand, I'm guessing by the end of 2008, will have somewhere between 16 and 20 million PS3's on the market. And with this news from Warner Bros, god knows how many standalones with be on the market by the end of the year. It stands to reason that Sony is flooding the market with its players in a more intelligent way and its consumers are more loyal and informed about HD content. They say that many PS3 owners are unaware of its multi-media capabilities and/or don't care. But a few successful commercial champagnes, firmware updates, and a wider adoption of HD-TV’s over the coming years will change this. To me at least, it seems like blue-ray will be the obvious winner.




BD Win is not a Slam-Dunk
By teckytech9 on 1/6/2008 4:50:18 AM , Rating: 2
VHS winning over Beta did not totally hurt the consumer who purchased the Betamax systems. Betamax owners still had their Beta movie collection and recordable tapes to use.
I remember the "Beta Only" stores were also popular too. Back then, there was no exclusivity of movie studios content to one particular format.

Then the Divx Player arrived (Circuit City). The defunct player cost everyone his or her initial investment (player and discs).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIVX

Truth is, there is so much similarity in DIVX to HD-DVD. The quick sale of consumer hardware that may or may not be fully supported in the future. An increase in revenue which correlates to a quick spike in the stock price for these companies?

Ahhhh but wait, the downloadable file, in its purist form, is the real future of content distribution. Whether it arrives in the ground or in the air, it is the light at the end of the tunnel. Waiting for a good HD-DVD recorder for the PC is next.




MY EXPERIENCE WITH HD
By psefer on 1/6/2008 7:38:25 AM , Rating: 1
WARNER JUST MADE THE MISTAKE OF THEIR LIFE AS A COMPANY! AND THEY MANAGED TO HIT ALL CONSUMERS IN THE BULLS EYE! HAVE THEY EVER SEEN THE SUPERIOR QUALITY OF HD DVD OVER BLU RAY IN THE SAME TELEVISION ? I HAVE SEEN IT BECAUSE I OWN BOTH FORMAT PLAYERS! WAIT UNTIL ALL OF YOU SEE THE 10+ QUALITY OF UPSCALING THE HD DVD PLAYERS HAVE IN YOUR DVD MOVIE COLLECTION ANDCOMPARING IT WITH THE SH..TY QUALITY OF EVEN THE MOST EXPENSIVE BLURAY PLAYER!
ALL OF US ALLREADY HAVE SOME DVD MOVIES, WHY NOT ALLOWING US TO SEE IT IN HIGHER QUALITY BY SUPPORTING THE BLURAY FORMAT WHICH IS INFERIOR!
SOME OF YOU MIGHT ASK WHY I CHOOSE TO OWN BOTH FORMAT PLAYERS AND THE ANSWER IS THAT BECAUSE SOME MOVIE ARE RELEASED IN ONLY ONE FORMAT AND BECAUSE I HAD TO SEE WHAT WERE THE DIFFERENCES IN QUALITY! SINCE THE COST OF PRODUCTION OF A BLURAY DISC IS MUCH HIGHER THE HD DVD WHY ALL DIDN'T THEY SUPPORT IT FULLY?
IT WOULD COST LESS FOR THEM AND LESS FOR US THE RETAILERS! AND GIVEN THE LOWER PRICES OF HDDVD PLAYERS THE FORMAT WAR SOUND HAVE FINISHED ALONG TIME AGO. SO SINCE I AM A CONSUMER I SAY TO S O N Y THAT BLU RAY IS NOT WHAT WE WANT!




RE: MY EXPERIENCE WITH HD
By chick0n on 1/7/2008 10:35:36 AM , Rating: 1
ROFL ? OMG YOU'RE SUCH A TOUGH GUY POSTING EVERYTHING IN CAPS OOOO MAKES YOU FREAKING TOUGH AHHH IM SCARED RUNNNNN FOR UR LIFE !!!!!

look dumbass, you should really get a fuxking clue on why is the *EARLY* HD-DVD stuff looks *tiny bit* better than Blu-Ray stuff. oooo wait are you too dumb to know why ? Want me to tell you why ?

Wait a minute, why didnt u mention that Blu-Ray has more space? I dont see you mention that.

moron.


Can you hear it?
By dl429 on 1/4/08, Rating: 0
RE: Can you hear it?
By SavagePotato on 1/5/08, Rating: -1
RE: Can you hear it?
By RMTimeKill on 1/11/2008 5:42:56 PM , Rating: 1
Talk about HD-DVD fanboi's, I think your the biggest Sony fanboi I have ever seen, I will laugh when your Sony equipment ends up in the repair depot like so many others... Having worked in a couple different repair shops I will never buy Sony, Magnavox, RCA, Phillips or Panasonic (flat panels). Magnavox/Phillips had the most in for repairs, followed very closely by Sony... and Sony charges more for their parts then the original value of the item being repaired!! THAT is why its so expensive to get your TV repaired (making warranties from places like Best Buy worth it because odds are, when your tv breaks inside that 4 year period, they are just going to replace it...)


Hmmmm
By Mach Omega on 1/6/08, Rating: 0
Well that is that
By CRimer76 on 1/4/08, Rating: -1
RE: Well that is that
By therealnickdanger on 1/4/2008 4:26:13 PM , Rating: 2
Owned.

I've been supporting HD-DVD almost exclusively, but it was fun while it lasted.


RE: Well that is that
By CRimer76 on 1/4/2008 4:29:53 PM , Rating: 2
I would be just as happy if HD had won. Just glad there is a winner, period.


RE: Well that is that
By cyclosarin on 1/4/2008 4:49:36 PM , Rating: 2
HD-DVD still won't die. It's just too easy to make HD-DVDs regardless of what BluRay is doing. Along with the rise of dual format players there really isn't much incentive to not also offer HD-DVD eventually.


RE: Well that is that
By 16nm on 1/4/2008 6:17:15 PM , Rating: 3
Your comment seems hopeful at best. If dual format players will become the norm then why would a company waste money printing on and distributing both formats? That's two SKU's for every HD movie. No, that's not what's happening. This would mean the demise of HD-DVD as studios certainly will choose Blu-ray if players can do both formats. Blu-ray is a little superior and does offer more storage so the choice is obvious.

So, ironically, the wide adoption of the dual format player will eventually move the market to a single format. And then we will be seeing really dirt cheap single format players like we see the same of DVD players today.

I must point out the obvious. All these HD-DVD players we currently see on the market will just become nice DVD upconverters. That kinda sucks.


RE: Well that is that
By leonowski on 1/4/2008 7:50:10 PM , Rating: 2
You are not entirely correct. Studios will eventually choose a side, as you said, for reasons like saving money. However, the core technology in both formats are common. I'm talking about the video streams like VC1, H.264, MPEG2, and the audio streams like EAC3, DTS-HD, etc.

There is really no difference between the 2 formats. They contain the same data. Sure, there are stupid features that allow for interactive dics/players, but no one really cares about that. People just want the movies.

Right now, when a studio releases in both formats, they don't really re-encode for the extra space offered by Blu-Ray. It's the same data. And for those titles where they do take advantage by encoding in a higher bitrate, I don't think any one really cares about the negligible difference. The resolution is the same.

I predict:

1) Both formats will continue to live while people argue about which is better.

2) Dual format players will become the norm.

3) Applications that will allow you to decrypt, rip elementary streams, and then re-author to the other HD format will appear.

No format will lose. As a consumer, if you choose a side (like what Sony wants you to do), you will lose.


RE: Well that is that
By Chaser on 1/4/2008 7:53:48 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Right now, when a studio releases in both formats, they don't really re-encode for the extra space offered by Blu-Ray. It's the same data. And for those titles where they do take advantage by encoding in a higher bitrate, I don't think any one really cares about the negligible difference. The resolution is the same.


Well you got two things right: Right now. And no one will care.


RE: Well that is that
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 1/4/2008 8:08:03 PM , Rating: 2
No, he pretty much hit the nail on the head. Even the studios are predicting the dual format players will outsell the dedicated players within 2 years. No early adopter wants coasters, and the money has been invested. Much like DVD+ and DVD- you will see both disks available for a long time to come, with everyone using dual format players.


RE: Well that is that
By 16nm on 1/4/2008 8:42:49 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Much like DVD+ and DVD- you will see both disks available for a long time to come, with everyone using dual format players.


Are you joking? Why would you say that when you know that studios already are choosing one camp or the other? Or do you mean Blu-ray-R versus HD-DVD-R (recordable media)?


RE: Well that is that
By leonowski on 1/4/2008 9:10:06 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Are you joking? Why would you say that when you know that studios already are choosing one camp or the other? Or do you mean Blu-ray-R versus HD-DVD-R (recordable media)?


Again, I don't think you understand dual format players. His analogy to DVD+R and DVD-R formats is something I didn't think of and it is brilliant. Sure, there are more obstacles in the HD format realm, but like I said before, the gap in technology is not very wide. The core technologies behind these HD discs are the same. This should make it easy to produce players (software and hardware) that can work with both formats.


RE: Well that is that
By BansheeX on 1/5/2008 9:33:30 AM , Rating: 2
DVD-R and DVD+R were nearly identical in disc structure. Blu-ray and HD-DVD require completely different lens apertures, making dual format quite costly in comparison. DVD-R and DVD+R were also recordables and not vying for content. When HD-DVD loses its remaining studio support, media will no longer be available for purchase and dual format players will no longer be produced as though they were. If DVD+R had failed to be adopted and discs left market, I guarantee you that drives would not have continued to be built with support for DVD+R just to appease early adopters who bought DVD+R media.


RE: Well that is that
By Shining Arcanine on 1/5/2008 5:04:42 PM , Rating: 2
Correction, you mean when Blu-ray loses its remaining studio support, Blu-ray media will no longer be available for purchase.

After all, Blu-ray is another Betamax.


RE: Well that is that
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 1/4/2008 9:14:32 PM , Rating: 2
Universal, Paramount, Deamworks went HD DVD. Warner Brother, Sony, Disney went Blu Ray.

Hardware manufacturers (Not Sony or Toshiba) will be looking to pump out Hybrid players to maximize their market share. The players are independent of the studios in most cases. I expect Sony to continue making BR only, but most of the other hardware suppliers will go with dual format because its easy and because the hardware specs on the players for HD DVD and BR are almost the same.


RE: Well that is that
By 16nm on 1/4/2008 11:46:36 PM , Rating: 2
I see, but why then would the studios not all switch to Blu-ray exclusively since all the players will support it. The only chance HD-DVD had was using their price advantage to saturate the market early on, which they have failed miserably at. I don't see how HD-DVD can not fail. I hope this is not the case, but I just don't see it. Besides, DVD+/-R is only referring to a recordable media. There has only ever been one DVD movie format used by the studios. There's a big difference between the formats studios use and the recordable disc you and I use. DVD+/-R is in fact a consumer choice. It's really apples to oranges...

This point about HD-DVD being a consumer choice is not possible. THe only choice the consumer could make would be buying HD-DVD only players. This means avoiding the dual format ones. But let's be realistic. This is never going to happen. People are going to flock to dual format players and the studios are going to move to the superior format and drop the inferior one to increase profits. There will be no choice for the consumer to make. No matter how much he loves his HD-DVD!

It just occured to me, though, that you will be able to buy a blu-ray DVD and rip it to an HD-DVD recordable. This actually is not so unreasonable unless your name is Sony. Of course, since this mess is Sony's doing, this would be appropriate. :)


RE: Well that is that
By leonowski on 1/4/2008 8:44:02 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Well you got two things right: Right now. And no one will care.


I don't think you understand. I used the words "right now" because of the current state of the market. "Right now," some studios are authoring for both formats (same core data with different packaging). When each studio actually chooses an exclusive format, there will be no need to ever re-encode since they know the end target. How can you compare 2 different movies, from 2 different studios, on 2 different formats? "Right now," you can make these comparisons if you wanted to since some studios have dual format releases. But, my main point is that most consumers (even those who think of themselves as "videophiles") will not notice the bitrate difference. The resolutions will stay the same. The gap between the 2 HD formats is not as wide as VCR to DVD or DVD to blu-ray/HD-DVD.

I do suspect that Warner Bros. move might be more related to the second content protection offered by Blu-Ray: BD+. HD-DVDs only use AACS and BD+ might offer a compelling reason to studios who are worried about content protection.


RE: Well that is that
By Chaser on 1/6/2008 1:22:35 AM , Rating: 2
I understand the entire article. It's over.

Adieu.


RE: Well that is that
By 16nm on 1/4/2008 8:38:55 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, you say yourself that Blu-ray is better even if only marginally. But what about the extra capacity? This is a definite plus. With the extra space, studios can give us more for our money by including extras or having longer director's cuts, etc. This means we, the consumer, get more for our money. Studios ARE interested in making money. If dual format players become the standard then I can promise you that no studio is ever going to release a lesser-than-Blu-ray HD-DVD just to pacify a very tiny group of early adopters that have HD-DVD only players.

I am certain that this is the exact same reasoning behind Warner's decision to go only Blu-ray. Man, this really sucks because Warner is huge and I think this pretty much ends the format war. I really was hoping for the best for HD-DVD. I liked their policies with regard to regioning. I thought this would have helped make movie prices more competitive.

It's over folks. Blu-ray has won. The dual format player kills HD-DVD.

So why did Sony have to do this? What really was achieved in the end? Certainly piracy will not be any different than it is with DVD.


RE: Well that is that
By leonowski on 1/4/2008 8:59:27 PM , Rating: 2
My main gripe is that you, as a consumer, believe that you have to make a choice. You take a side and stick with it rather than taking advantage of the entire technology's pool. It's like being a Democrat and only voting for Democrats simply because of your party affiliation.

From a technology standpoint, Blu-Ray does offer some compelling features like larger storage capacity and BD+ content protection. HD-DVD also has technology like triple layer media to compete with Blu-Ray's 50GB (HD-DVD's triple layer goes to 51GB).

How many of you ran (or are still running) a VCR/LaserDisc/DVD player? It is not impossible to hook up both formats for your viewing pleasure.

Once each studio actually chooses to release to an exclusive format, can you really make apples to apples comparisons? For example, if you had the choice between a movie on HD-DVD and a completely different movie on Blu-Ray (with SPECIAL FEATURES!!!), what would you choose? Would you choose solely on the fact that the Blu-Ray disc has an interactive wand that lets you interact with Harry Potter? Or, would you choose that HD-DVD porn title that also lets you get interactive (*nyuck* *nyuck*)?

You can't make that comparison. You simply choose the movie that you WANT TO SEE. Again, it just comes down to the movie you want to see.

quote:
If dual format players become the standard then I can promise you that no studio is ever going to release a lesser-than-Blu-ray HD-DVD just to pacify a very tiny group of early adopters that have HD-DVD only players.


I don't think you understand what we mean by dual format. The players themselves (software or hardware) will be dual format. The discs WILL NOT BE.


RE: Well that is that
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 1/4/2008 9:17:59 PM , Rating: 1
Correct. For more on how this works see DVD-R and DVD+R. That war never ended, the hardware manufacturers decided to make everything dual format. It became meaningless.


RE: Well that is that
By rudy on 1/4/2008 9:56:30 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah and many people like me are waiting for that. I will not buy either player until it is a dual format player for less then $100. At that point I think that all media will be chosen on features and cost not on which company they want to support. Only things like those goofy kids games will care about the interactive features, the rest will grab which ever is cheaper unless they have a space issue.


RE: Well that is that
By MrTeal on 1/7/2008 4:40:03 PM , Rating: 2
Why wait for a dual format player to be under $100, which is likely to never happen. More likely is that by May the movies that grossed 75% of box office revenue will only be available on Blu-Ray. The sales split will stop being 60/40, and start being 65/35, then 70/30, 75/25. Once that happens, consumers looking to get into HDM will see 75% of the movie coming out just aren't available on HD-DVD, while only a few titles are HD exclusive. The standalone market will go from an even split, to heavily BR.

Given the added cost, and the relative lack of exclusive movies (even less if Paramount or Universal are able to get out of their exclusivity contract), why would someone new to the market want a combo player now? For those that already have a HD-DVD player, why would you want to spend extra for a combo unit when you could just buy a PS3 or a standalone and still be able to use both formats.

If a dual format player was $50 more than a BR or HD-DVD player, I could see them selling well. But not with the kind of premium they're commanding now. Once the market moves convincingly into BR's camp, combo players will be a useless novelty for all but a handful of buyers.


RE: Well that is that
By BansheeX on 1/5/2008 12:33:47 AM , Rating: 2
And yet the physical structures of those discs were nearly identical, which is not true for blu-ray/hd-dvd, making dual format more expensive to support for the latter. Also, the analogy fails because dvd+r or dvd-r weren't vying for content. They were just recordables. When HD-DVD loses its remaining studio support, media will no longer be produced and sold, and dual format will not be pursued as though it was. A dual format future is the result of neither format ever losing or winning, and this was never in any studio's best interest because it has no potential to sell as DVD has.


RE: Well that is that
By 16nm on 1/5/2008 12:10:47 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I don't think you understand what we mean by dual format. The players themselves (software or hardware) will be dual format. The discs WILL NOT BE.


Oh, I understand, and I'm telling you that if 99% of players are dual format ones then the studios are not going to fart around with two formats. Because there is absolutely zero reason to be with HD-DVD, they will standardize on Blu-ray and that will be the end of it. And then hardware manufacturers will see that there is no point in producing a dual format player when all the movies are on blu-ray and we will start seeing Emerson Blu-ray players for $10.99 a pop at Walmart. All the hardware manufacturers will evetually demand that a format be adopted and I am quite sure they will get it.


RE: Well that is that
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 1/5/2008 12:12:07 AM , Rating: 2
You need to get Dreamworks, Universal, and Paramount on board before that can happen.


RE: Well that is that
By cubdukat on 1/4/2008 6:27:29 PM , Rating: 2
Not to mention that some of the people involved with HD-DVD are sore losers--to wit, Microsoft. It wouldn't surprise me somehow if they made it difficult if not impossible to play Blu-Ray discs in Vista.

And yes, I know such a move would not be in M$'s best interests, but since when have they actually been smacked down for anything they've done anti-consumerwise? And no, what happened to them with the Justice Department was not a true smackdown.

Personally, I'm not a proponent of either format; I'm just waiting to see which one survives before I buy anything. Even so, I took advantage of Best Buy's BOGO offer this past Christmas and picked up Spider-Man 3 and The Departed. I was gonna pick up Transformers and I Now Pronounce You Chuck and Larry on the HD-DVD side, but I ran out of ducats.


RE: Well that is that
By Lastfreethinker on 1/4/08, Rating: 0
RE: Well that is that
By BansheeX on 1/4/2008 9:13:55 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
HD-DVD was chosen as THE standard for High-Def


By who and by what authority? Cheapskate companies in the incompetent consortium who initially wanted a red laser HD format? BDA thought they had a better product and let the consumer decide, and they won. The other companies learned their lesson not to offer a marginally better disc format over DVD to retrofit old equipment and milk consumers. A longer lasting format, cheap single layer 25gb movie backups, and PS3 all-in-one goodness await you now. Be happy.


RE: Well that is that
By mcnabney on 1/5/2008 12:15:06 AM , Rating: 2
You do know that HD-DVD uses the same blue (violet actually) laser as BluRay?

Sony owned most (but not all) of the IP for BD and wanted the cash cow. They designed the PS3 around it and forced the format on the world. Owning a few film studios and increasing the Copyright and control (BD+ and regions, HD-DVD has neither) allowed them to better appeal to the media companies. That gave them the win. I really am surprised they went for BD. All new media pressing equipment will need to be purchased as BD replaces DVD (in the next 10 years). HD-DVD could use the existing presses. Oh well. I had waited to buy in because I didn't want to own the next Betamax. Came close to buying a cheap HD-DVD player over Xmas. Glad I waited. Unfortunately with HD-DVD in rapid decline I imagine BD player won't be cracking the $200 price point for a couple years now. Maybe I will pickup a soon to be dirt cheap HD-DVD player just for the upconversion...


RE: Well that is that
By BansheeX on 1/5/2008 9:52:29 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
You do know that HD-DVD uses the same blue (violet actually) laser as BluRay?


Yep, the consortium wanted red-laser while the BDA was pushing for their blue laser spec (blu-ray) from the beginning. Instead of going along with what was obviously the best solution for a long-term format, several companies including Toshiba went off and created their own blue laser format, one that appeased the retrofitters. Who are the greedy IP companies again?

quote:
Sony owned most (but not all) of the IP for BD and wanted the cash cow. They designed the PS3 around it and forced the format on the world.


I would like sources for this if you don't mind, and also a comparison to Toshiba and HD-DVD and how it's any different.

quote:
I imagine BD player won't be cracking the $200 price point for a couple years now.


That would be a poor prediction considering what happened with DVD as a single format. Blu-ray manufacturers will continue to compete for the market and prices will decline at the same rate as DVD did. Also, I'm pretty sure a BD player already has cracked the $200 mark.


RE: Well that is that
By Shining Arcanine on 1/5/2008 5:08:45 PM , Rating: 2
Their going with a format that "appeased the retrofitters" made things cheaper for us, the end-users. The only thing that going with a more expensive technology accomplishes is making the products more expensive for us, the end-users. Do you like spending money?


RE: Well that is that
By BansheeX on 1/5/2008 5:25:42 PM , Rating: 1
And here's the fallacy of the HD-DVD argument, as though price disparities are constant. HD-DVD is not a permanently cheaper or inherently affordable product, it simply had a lower INITIAL price than the more technologically advanced Blu-Ray format. If DVD had a competitor when it came out that was 2.7gb with more aggressive compression and offered $100 cheaper players, HD-DVD fans probably would have sided with it citing faster adoption and affordability. These initial and temporary advantages do not justify undercutting the potential of a major upgrade expenditure and fifteen year format. Have some foresight and patience.


RE: Well that is that
By AlexandertheBlue on 1/5/2008 1:55:33 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Maybe I will pickup a soon to be dirt cheap HD-DVD player just for the upconversion...


If upconverting is the only reason then don't buy the HD-DVD player. There are better ones out there.

OPPO in particular makes some very good upconverting DVD players that are reasonably priced


RE: Well that is that
By Gio6518 on 1/5/2008 12:02:53 AM , Rating: 1
companies will pull out of the dual format player (look at Samsung) im sorry to say it but it is what it is, thank god i bought and backed BLU-RAY, i feel bad for the people that didnt listen to the truth and not the marketing hype and lies that HD-DVD has been spewing out, lots of people are going to get hurt with this decision. This format war dragged on too long, as it is...
THANK GOD IT"S FINALLY OVER


RE: Well that is that
By cyclosarin on 1/5/2008 1:32:05 AM , Rating: 2
Why would any one not make dual format players? You get access to the entire market and it would barely dent the cost of a BRD player to add the components needed to also read HD-DVD. Three large studios are locked into HD-DVD for another year and a half.


RE: Well that is that
By Gio6518 on 1/5/2008 12:42:42 PM , Rating: 2
why make a dual format player when one of the formats has just got dealt the fatal blow....companies arent going to be willing to put out millions maybe billions into R&D for a dying format.

but the question i have to ask is how hard would it be to download a firmware and software update to make the current HD-DVD players play BLU-RAYS

I mean thats really gotta suck for all the people that gifted the $99 players, they must be hearing "gee thanks what was the store out of laser disc or betamax players"


RE: Well that is that
By BansheeX on 1/5/2008 5:29:45 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
firmware and software update to make the current HD-DVD players play BLU-RAYS


Not possible. The structures of the disc are vastly different and blu-ray requires a much finer lens aperture.


RE: Well that is that
By Cappadocious on 1/4/2008 4:34:36 PM , Rating: 3
I bought in to HD-DVD this holiday season because of the amazing deals to be had. After news like this there is a slight twinge of buyers remorse.

Personaly I think the war will be won after next feb when the switch from analog to digital takes place. It will be just the excuse alot of people need to make the switch to a HD Plasma/LCD/Oled etc etc. When more people have the ability to watch things in HD instead of the small fraction of all movie buyers, then the market will be able to make a clear winner out of one format


RE: Well that is that
By blaster5k on 1/4/2008 4:40:02 PM , Rating: 3
As buyers of HD-DVD players, we don't have as much to lose if the format war doesn't go our way since we didn't spend as much.

Should HD-DVD perish, I just hope Blu-Ray will have a complete feature set and all the old single-layer MPEG2 releases will be redone by the time I'm forced to buy a new player.


RE: Well that is that
By BansheeX on 1/4/2008 7:47:47 PM , Rating: 2
[quote]As buyers of HD-DVD players, we don't have as much to lose if the format war doesn't go our way since we didn't spend as much.[/quote]

As a console, the PS3 wouldn't have lost resale value if blu-ray failed. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but movies for HD-DVD cost the same as Blu-Ray. If you bought into the losing format and bought fifty movies already, you certainly stand to lose a lot of money unless you snatch up a dual-format player while you can.


RE: Well that is that
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 1/4/2008 7:58:56 PM , Rating: 1
Dual Format players will only increase in sales. It's going to be hard to find players dedicated to one format or another in the coming years.


RE: Well that is that
By JSK on 1/4/2008 8:10:54 PM , Rating: 2
Not if when the paramount/dreamworks exclusive deal ends (14 months I believe), and they realize the error of their ways and go BD also. If that comes to fruition there may not be a need for multiformat players and hd-dvd may go the way of betamax.


RE: Well that is that
By Chaser on 1/4/2008 8:11:58 PM , Rating: 2
Keep telling yourself that.

The dam is collapsing and I would suggest you grab one while you can for your few HD DVD titles that will be left.

Next stop: Dreamworks and Paramount.


RE: Well that is that
By BansheeX on 1/4/2008 8:58:02 PM , Rating: 2
Not likely. Upon calling it quits, HD-DVD movies will eventually no longer be sold in retail stores, its current exclusives will all be rereleased on bluray, and the userbase that already bought them won't be large enough to justify industry continuation of costly dual-format players. If a manufacturer made one, all it will do is make the eventual mainstream buyers scratch their heads at paying more for a player which supports a format you can no longer buy in stores. With most users of the dead format already possessing a player, it would be the biggest loser in sales and profitability.


RE: Well that is that
By djc208 on 1/4/2008 9:36:30 PM , Rating: 2
That's assuming they're costly. If HD-DVD does collapse Toshiba will all but give away the license. Other than that there's not a lot of mechanical difference between the two formats. HD-DVD support would be like MP3 support in a CD or DVD player, just a matter of having a chip that supports the format and paying the fee for the license (if there is one).


RE: Well that is that
By BansheeX on 1/4/2008 10:31:36 PM , Rating: 1
That's not true, the structures of the disc formats are different and require different lens apertures. It is not a matter of just plopping in software support to decode a different algorithm.

If HD-DVD movies leave the market this early, there will be virtually no reason to continue supporting it in players. The only people who might want one are the few early adopters on the HD-DVD side who bought many movies and want to replace their HD-DVD only standalone with a dual-format player. Toshiba may offer one, but don't expect the blu-ray manufacturers to waste resources and confuse consumers with a dual-format player.


RE: Well that is that
By bplewis24 on 1/4/2008 9:58:23 PM , Rating: 2
You go ahead and believe that, buddy. It's amusing how much denial there was in the last few months of this format war, but the denial going on right now is downright hysterical.

Brandon


RE: Well that is that
By Chiggs on 1/4/2008 10:01:20 PM , Rating: 2
Here's what's even funnier:

http://wesleytech.com/

The HD-DVD Press Conference has been cancelled. Oh, I'm sorry, "postponed."

The denial is amazing.


RE: Well that is that
By blaster5k on 1/5/2008 5:45:19 PM , Rating: 2
I don't play games. Why would I have spent an extra $200-300 for a capability I don't care about? For a gamer, maybe it makes some sense, but not for most of us. I also don't buy movies. I rent exclusively.


RE: Well that is that
By helios220 on 1/4/2008 4:48:22 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Personaly I think the war will be won after next feb when the switch from analog to digital takes place.


I couldn't really imagine people who don't even have cable or satellite (over the air transmission users) being a big influence in the HD DVD market, or hell even in the HD TV market. Hardly the only place I ever see analog antennas anymore is when I drive by a trailer park, and I have a hard time seeing them rushing to buy Plasmas and PS3s.

I swear though, if I have one more person try to tell me that all old TVs are going to turn off next year I'm going to lose it (ignoring the people who will post exactly that).


RE: Well that is that
By pomaikai on 1/4/2008 5:06:52 PM , Rating: 2
I have not had cable or satellite for a few years. Had satellite, but all we watched was basic OTA stations other than DIY and discovery. Wasnt worth the price. Have a collection of about 40 kids movies that I upconverted and filtered to 720P that stream to my 360 for my son. He doesnt watch any of the cartoon series on TV. If he wants blues clues or sponge bob we just get some DVD's and stream them to the TV. For me and my wife we just use our tivo HD and watch when we get a chance.

Buy the way, very few people in America have been rushing to buy PS3's. I have a wii and 360. May pick up a ps3 when they get more good games. Because of the odd shape I have no desire to put it in with the AV equipment in the closet and use it as a BD player.

Analog antennas(same antennas work for digital also) do look like crap. That is why people who dont live in trailer parks mount them in the attic.


RE: Well that is that
By helios220 on 1/4/2008 5:23:43 PM , Rating: 3
Obviously there are OTA users who simply just don't care of the content of cable, that was assumed obvious. But when you start getting into smaller segments of an already small segment of overall TV users it only further validates the point that there will not be large quantities of OTA users shifting the balance of the format war in either direction.

Early adopters can perceive a bias in me and down rate me to their hearts content, but personally I refuse to adopt either platform for quite some time. This format war was born out of greed, both sides refused to compromise and settle on a single format before going to market less they risk losing some potential profit so they left it to the consumer to take the potential loss. Thanks, but I'll pass.


RE: Well that is that
By Spyvie on 1/4/2008 5:34:25 PM , Rating: 2
I think the switch to digital transmission might bring about a second golden age of broadcast television.

Hands down the best HDTV signal you can get is OTA, there is no static or multipath distortion of any kind, just block distortion and a frozen pic if the signal is too weak. An absolutely gorgeous picture can be had for free.

I have Comcast HD... I also keep a cheap Terk antenna hooked up to watch Heros and 24, there is no comparison in picture quality. In addition, I have a Hauppage HVR1600 in my desktop with a pair of rabbit ears I use to record football games in HD.

Seriously, it's free, and there is no picture noise of any kind...


RE: Well that is that
By Cappadocious on 1/4/2008 6:36:40 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I swear though, if I have one more person try to tell me that all old TVs are going to turn off next year I'm going to lose it (ignoring the people who will post exactly that).


I dont think anywhere in my post I eluded to this conclusion.


RE: Well that is that
By Cappadocious on 1/4/2008 7:55:34 PM , Rating: 3
Alluded Even!


RE: Well that is that
By Micronite on 1/4/2008 5:06:57 PM , Rating: 2
Well, one thing's for certain. Now that I've invested in HD-DVD and have quite a few titles, I'm a lot more likely to rip them to my media center PC and just be done with it.
The real winner: HTPC!


RE: Well that is that
By mcnabney on 1/5/2008 12:32:58 AM , Rating: 2
Here's a question. If you already own the HD-DVD version of something, can you download the same thing onto BD and not be violating copyright? The content is the same and you already paid for.


RE: Well that is that
By helios220 on 1/4/08, Rating: 0
RE: Well that is that
By pomaikai on 1/4/08, Rating: 0
RE: Well that is that
By helios220 on 1/4/2008 5:40:55 PM , Rating: 2
I agree that it is not the technical nature of the formats themselves that often annoy me but the manner in which they are deployed. If you buy a Sony product you are all almost always going to have some Sony format forced upon you, regardless of its technical merit, like every mobile Sony device using MemoryStick despite the popularity of SD and other formats.

Personally I don't have a problem with Blu-Ray itself but with the knowledge that even if there was an obvious superior competitor, Sony would still do their best to force you to use their format rather than concede.

Regardless, I'll freely admit that I am not a big fan of some of Sony's devices but I'm still surprised how adamantly people align their loyalties to specific companies. It is as almost if they believed the company was looking out for the consumers interests and not just their wallets.


RE: Well that is that
By rudy on 1/4/2008 10:09:24 PM , Rating: 2
I agree, And all the people supporting them are just bound to screw us over. For the sake of the customers we need hd dvd to stick around and dual format players to thrive. Every time another standard stuck it out sony lost in the late game. But if sony manages to get their monopoly by owning half the movies and PS3 and using those to kill HD DVD then we are all in for more years of hurt. If we can keep HD DVD alive then the competition between them will keep prices better and keep sony in check.


RE: Well that is that
By thilanliyan on 1/4/2008 7:18:00 PM , Rating: 2
Actually the PS3 (other than the Blu Ray...which wasn't created solely by Sony actually) supports more than just memory stick...you can change your hard drive (unlike Xbox360), and you can even install Linux on it if you want...so...they haven't completely locked you in.


RE: Well that is that
By someguy743 on 1/4/2008 4:52:00 PM , Rating: 2
Toshiba and the other HD-DVD folks are not going to like this. Sony folks will be happy campers today though.

I want to watch 1080p super high quality Blu-Ray movies with excellent sound on a big 50+ inch new Sony OLED TV that will coming out in the next year or two.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/22399288

These OLED tvs are supposed to be incredible and you really can hang them on the wall like picture frames they are so thin. If they can make them cheap like regular LCDs are getting, they might be all most people will want for 10 years or so. I hope to get a huge 70" OLED in 5 years.

I also want Sony and the other audio receiver companies like Onkyo to hurry up and get the new "Dolby Volume" technology on the market. I am sick of having to keep turning the volume up and down all the time! I have to adjust the volume between commercials, when you change channels .... even when you are watching a movie sometimes you can't hear the dialogue because of all the loud background music and sound effects. I want the HDTV industry to optimize the video AND the sound experience. I'll be buying stuff in next year or two from the companies that do this.


RE: Well that is that
By mcnabney on 1/5/2008 12:41:48 AM , Rating: 2
Forget your OLED dreams.

The technology is being deliberately delayed because the industry wants to milk as much as the populace as possible into buying LCD displays. Once they are fully penetrated (Sony is now abandoning RPTV in favor of the much more expensive LCD) then OLED will be roled out and all you suckers can buy another one. It will clearly be the next decade and they will not get cheap until 2015.


RE: Well that is that
By someguy743 on 1/4/2008 7:49:28 PM , Rating: 2
In 5 years we might not even be using discs at all anyway. If the monthly prices come down, more people will start getting fast broadband connections. Some cities will have the new FIOS "fiber to the home" service by Verizon. No need for BluRay or HD-DVD player if everyone starts to get that kind of HUGE bandwidth.

You just get online, search the database if you want and download the movie to your DVR's hard disc. No more searching for movie titles at Blockbuster stores for 30 minutes. You could just use the website and get whatever type of movie or new release you want. No chance of the movie being rented out to someone else.


RE: Well that is that
By Sovjohn on 1/4/2008 9:48:09 PM , Rating: 2
Speaking of "the end of the war", does anyone know if that rumour I had heard when HD wars first begun, about Blu-ray forbidding its use in the "adult entertainment" industry, is a fact?

Because if it is, and HD-DVD allows its disks to be used in such a way, then it's DEFINITELY not dead. Maybe..."used for creative / experimental ;) reasons only", but not dead.

Anyone?