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Hardware Update: Toshiba to Abandon HD DVD
Marcus Yam (Blog) - February 15, 2008 5:20 PM
Print E-mail del.icio.us 141 comment(s) - last by mrdeez.. on Feb 19 at 4:46 PM
Toshiba may drop support for its own high-def format

Perhaps not wanting to be the last off a sinking ship, Toshiba could soon be abandoning the HD DVD format it helped bring to market, if the Hollywood Reporter is to be believed.

According to the report’s sources, Toshiba will be pulling the plug on its HD DVD format sometime in the coming weeks. The official word from Toshiba, predictably, is that it is still behind HD DVD as the format of choice.

"Based on its technological advancements, we continue to believe HD DVD is the best format for consumers, given the value and consistent quality inherent in our player offerings," said Jodi Sally, Toshiba’s VP of marketing.

Interestingly enough, Toshiba didn’t completely put to rest any ideas that the company could change its stance in the format war. "Given the market developments in the past month," continued Sally, "Toshiba will continue to study the market impact and the value proposition for consumers, particularly in light of our recent price reductions on all HD DVD players."

Possibly urging Toshiba to drop HD DVD are the recent events transpired since Warner Bros. announced at CES 2008 that it would go Blu-ray Disc exclusive this summer. Most recently, online rental giant Netflix announced that it too would be dropping HD DVD stock, while Best Buy would begin to push Blu-ray Disc as the preferred format.

In what could be the final nail in the coffin for the format, Wal-Mart today announced its plans to drop HD DVD players and software stock starting this June.

02/16/08 Update: Reuters cites an NHK Japan source that Toshiba will officially pulling the plug on HD DVD as early as next week. "We have entered the final stage of planning to make our exit from the next generation DVD business," said the source, who asked not to be identified.

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War sux, just glad we have a winner
By ShadowZERO on 2/15/2008 5:36:35 PM , Rating: 5
I was sort of rooting for the HD-DVD camp, even though I never spent any money on either. Now that the war is over, I'm just glad we have a winner. Its good to know that when I finally upgrade my livingroom set to High-Def I won't have to worry which format is best.




RE: War sux, just glad we have a winner
By falacy on 2/15/2008 5:45:34 PM , Rating: 5
Yup.

The tough choice now is: Huge computer monitor with great response time or even larger HD TV (with PC input) for the same money?

Hmm...

Ah well, something tells me that my wife will vote for option three: groceries and a kick in my ass. Women!


RE: War sux, just glad we have a winner
By Xerio on 2/15/2008 5:52:56 PM , Rating: 3
Yeah, option three usually wins. Dang it!


RE: War sux, just glad we have a winner
By MrWho on 2/15/2008 6:39:57 PM , Rating: 1
It's good to know I'm not alone... Misery loves company, does it not?


RE: War sux, just glad we have a winner
By walk2k on 2/15/2008 7:26:18 PM , Rating: 5
my wife asked me for money to get her watched fixed.

I said "why? there's a clock on the stove"


RE: War sux, just glad we have a winner
By gradoman on 2/15/2008 7:54:01 PM , Rating: 5
Lol, you should have told her that her broken watch is right twice a day.


RE: War sux, just glad we have a winner
By 440sixpack on 2/17/2008 10:55:30 AM , Rating: 2
Not if it's digital. ;-)


By gradoman on 2/17/2008 12:39:36 PM , Rating: 2
You got me there! :P


By johnsonx on 2/16/2008 5:12:11 AM , Rating: 2
I presume that was at 7am this morning, and you woke up just a few minutes ago to post here?


RE: War sux, just glad we have a winner
By Oregonian2 on 2/15/2008 9:19:04 PM , Rating: 2
My wife picked option-2 for us, but it's unlikely for a PC to be connected to it's input (unless I bring a laptop into the family room where it (58" plasma) is).

I'll just have to live with my relatively micro-miniature 24" LCD computer monitor that I've had for the last couple years. :-(

P.S. - Actually, when I got my very first PC (PC-XT in those days) it was her idea for me to get it!


RE: War sux, just glad we have a winner
By feraltoad on 2/16/2008 1:23:29 AM , Rating: 5
So how is the weather in Stepford this time of year?


RE: War sux, just glad we have a winner
By Maharajamd on 2/17/2008 5:57:35 PM , Rating: 2
ROFL! Why is no one laughing at this!


By dflynchimp on 2/17/2008 11:13:23 PM , Rating: 2
because not enough people saw that movie, lol. Way underrated


By MonkeyPaw on 2/16/2008 10:15:42 AM , Rating: 1
Yeah, my wife insisted that I spent at least some of my tax return on computer stuff (well, she said I could buy whatever I wanted, and it just so happens that was what I wanted). It wasn't a trap, either. After I bought my graphics card, she was happy I spent some money on me. I don't do that very often, so maybe that's why I get away with it. :)


By Polynikes on 2/16/2008 11:49:33 AM , Rating: 2
Only a 24" monitor for your computer? Bummer, dude.


By PrinceGaz on 2/17/2008 9:08:01 PM , Rating: 2
Since when was 24" small? I wish mine was 24 inches. My monitor, that is ;)


By JoshuaBuss on 2/17/2008 8:52:28 PM , Rating: 3
I'm glad my significant other isn't a technophobe!

She got me an hdtv usb 2.0 tuner and some a pair of 1gb ddr2 memory modules for Christmas :)


RE: War sux, just glad we have a winner
By amanojaku on 2/15/2008 5:54:26 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Its good to know that when I finally upgrade my livingroom set to High-Def I won't have to worry which format is best.


Unfortunately, neither format can be considered the best. Blu-ray has larger capacity and bit rate, hard coated discs, and wider frame rate support, but HD-DVD is region free and DRM is optional. Of all the features I would think the capacity would influence people backing up data to writable discs and the lack of region encoding would affect those who get foreign movies. The other features would be largely transparent to consumers, but that hard coating IS pretty hot. This is one reason why HP and others wanted to combine the formats to get the best of both worlds.

Personally, they can keep both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD for an entirely different reason: I don't want physical discs cluttering my house. I have a NAS with over a TB of space; where's my downloadable content?


RE: War sux, just glad we have a winner
By gospastic on 2/15/08, Rating: -1
RE: War sux, just glad we have a winner
By gradoman on 2/15/2008 7:57:15 PM , Rating: 4
Crappy-looking? I think not! How about straight up .ISOs? Is that good enough for you? Now if you said it's illegal, well, to each his own.

The guy has his preference, you have yours, can't we all agree that we're not always going to agree on what's best?

Sheesh.


RE: War sux, just glad we have a winner
By omnicronx on 2/15/08, Rating: -1
RE: War sux, just glad we have a winner
By gradoman on 2/15/2008 8:30:03 PM , Rating: 2
And you can't accept that some folks are satisfied with just 720p? Or that there those that have patience? Must I get rated down because I have a different opinion? It's not as though I said, hey HD is all crap.

Lol, I'm quite happy with my "crappy" DVDs & downloaded content. And no, I did not buy into any of the HD formats either as it is not an option for me. So to those that rate me down, good job, you guys must be Borgs since resistance is futile and downward ratings are a must for any difference of opinion.


RE: War sux, just glad we have a winner
By 777 on 2/15/2008 9:08:40 PM , Rating: 3
I'm glad for you that DVD's and downloadable content works, but for the average consumer many who barely know how to work a computer, downloadable content isn't there for them where they push two buttons and watch their Hi-def movie. The future certainly will bring this about for the masses, but my prediction is about 10yrs away for this to be easy, afforable and looks awesome on a 50inch LCD, DLP or whatever Hi-def monitor they will own.

This is not meant as any rate down to you, your just more in a minority for this, because neither my mother or father would ever be willing let alone know how to do or put up with down loading content. They just want to stick their movie in and push play, so downloaded movies needs to eventually become this simple or the masses will not go this way. But I do predict one day it will come to this.


RE: War sux, just glad we have a winner
By gradoman on 2/15/2008 9:40:28 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The future certainly will bring this about for the masses, but my prediction is about 10yrs away for this to be easy, afforable and looks awesome on a 50inch LCD, DLP or whatever Hi-def monitor they will own.


Agreed. At this moment, DVD and downloading are my options. I can't afford to get a HD player at this moment (I do have a HD TV and nice speakers, but that's for console gaming). Another hindrance, in addition to my inability to buy into a format, is the fact that there were two formats -- who knew which was going to win?

I'm not here to shove my preference down someone else's throat and I'm sure many folks that visit DT and general consumers are glad there is now one format.

DVD is still the leader, is it not? I'm quite satisfied with it (and so are a lot of people) and whatever iso format media I can get over the 'net.

I simply can't understand why some folks can't avoid rating me down for saying that those are my options.


RE: War sux, just glad we have a winner
By JAB on 2/16/2008 3:15:56 AM , Rating: 1
You most likly got rated down for the lack of lucidity in your arguments. It doesnt help that you are slamming people who pay what they get instead of stealing it. If you can aford a big screen TV. You might have got a little more sympathy if you did not brag about a big screen HD TV and 1TB NAS.

Most of the people interested in HD are not going to be willing to pay for higher quality than you will be able to get from legal downloads any time soon.


By gradoman on 2/16/2008 7:52:41 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
You might have got a little more sympathy if you did not brag about a big screen HD TV and 1TB NAS.


I'm quite sure I did not brag about having a big screen HD TV and 1TB NAS.

Also, I buy DVDs and the occasional new game; most times, though, I buy used. If you must know, I get a five-finger discount on asian dvds that I can't get my hands on for the under $20, those that are rare I can't get 'em, or the ones that don't have english subtitles -- fansubs.

I'm sorry if my arguments aren't clear to you or to others. I said a couple things, if you're not satisfied with 720p or DVD, that's you. I'm not here to slam or bash or flame anyone, but I'm quite happy with what I've got, which is DVD content and 720p quality stuff. What is so unclear about that?


By SilthDraeth on 2/16/2008 5:43:57 PM , Rating: 2
That was another poster that had the NAS and the big screen.


By Gholam on 2/15/2008 6:17:52 PM , Rating: 2
Downloadable content is at your nearest torrent tracker.

Also, it'll take a good long while before BDR becomes viable. Right now BDR blanks cost significantly more per GB than hard drives, and that's not including cost of the recorder.


By Noliving on 2/15/2008 6:33:17 PM , Rating: 4
Region coding on blu ray is optional, warner bros doesn't put region coding on their blu ray movies if i'm not mistaken.


RE: War sux, just glad we have a winner
By mpeny on 2/15/2008 6:37:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
and wider frame rate support


Incorrect. They both support the same frame rate and resolution (VC-1, H.264, etc). It just depends on the model of the player if it will support things like 1080/24p - which the lowest model of HD-DVD often does not.


By Ricky Williams on 2/19/2008 8:20:40 AM , Rating: 2
But Blu-ray has a much higher bit-rate. It supports uncompressed master quality audio which HD-DVD does not. Also because of Blu-ray's higher bit rate and storage capacity it allows for movies to be far less compressed meaning higher image quality.


RE: War sux, just glad we have a winner
By mattclary on 2/16/2008 10:08:57 AM , Rating: 5
"but HD-DVD is region free"

So is Bittorrent. ;)


By KamiXkaze on 2/16/2008 11:27:11 AM , Rating: 2
Yep that is true.

KxK


RE: War sux, just glad we have a winner
By docinct on 2/17/2008 10:12:14 AM , Rating: 2
1TB NAS = 20-30 HiDef DVDs BR are 50GG HDD are 30GB (if you want good audio and special materials in HD, etc.)
How do you intend to backup a 1TB NAS?
Besides, how do you legally put HD content on a NAS?

As to superior technology, the hard coating on BR is a plus for the rental market. I suspect the studios wanted the DRM/copy protection and region coding (although a number of BR are region free).

Capacity doesn't seem to matter; a bad encoding/transfer is a bad encoding transfer in either format.

It will be interesting to see when (if?) BR player prices drop to something reasonable.


RE: War sux, just glad we have a winner
By walk2k on 2/17/2008 12:53:27 PM , Rating: 1
Like it or not, copy protection was a big reason the major studios like Disney picked BD. HD-DVD shot itself in the foot by its lack of copy protection. As for regions, at least there are only 3 now (ie Japan and USA share region A) and it's optional. Many current BD releases are all-region. In practice though, very very few consumers will ever want to import a title from another country.

As for downloads, they are much lower quality than what you get on Blu-ray (720p 5-10mbps vs 1080p 20+mbps), and all of the LEGAL ones (XBL, Itunes) are really only ~24hr RENTALS. A lot of people want to own their movies - why do think DIVX failed?


By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/17/2008 2:31:44 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
A lot of people want to own their movies - why do think DIVX failed?

Apple TV disagrees with you.


RE: War sux, just glad we have a winner
By mbf on 2/17/2008 1:05:00 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
...but that hard coating IS pretty hot.

The hard coating may be "hot", but it is definitely mandatory as it is the only thing protecting the (first) data layer of the disc. HD DVD doesn't need hard coating since the data layer is much better protected. However, this is also where HD DVD suffers as a (re)writable format, as it is harder to focus the laser through that protective layer.


By porkpie on 2/17/2008 7:26:23 PM , Rating: 2
FYI, a lot of the HD-DVDs sold have that anti-scratch coating also. It's just not mandatory.


By Ricky Williams on 2/19/2008 8:53:03 AM , Rating: 2
I think his point is that Blu-rays are practically unscratchable where HD-DVD is no more scratch resistant than traditional CD/DVDs (which isn't much)


By Ricky Williams on 2/19/2008 8:14:49 AM , Rating: 2
The optional drm and lack of regional coding played a significant part in killing HD-DVD. Sure it would be great for the consumers but the studios hated it and also the fact that it only took a few weeks for HD-DVD's copy protection to get cracked scared the hell out of the movie studios. On the bright side you are right about Blu-rays hard coating, it kicks ass. I tried really hard to scratch a few blu rays I rented from blockbuster and couldn't do it, so I got to give Blu-ray a significant nod over HD-DVD for that. When you factor in Blu-rays near double capacity and much higher bitrate enabling superior video and master quality audio Blu-ray is superior in every way that matters to me (I don't watch foriegn films and I'm not a pirate). I'm not so sure about your enthusiasm for downloading movies as the quality it never as good as actual discs and I have several TB's of storage right now and I'm just about out of space and all I do is rip my favorite standard DVD's to my HD for convience and so they don't get scratched up (not an issue for Blu-ray thank god). Like everyone else I'm a little nervous about Sony controlling the Blu-ray standard but there are actually far more companies controlling Blu-ray than are actually controlling HD-DVD. Last time I checked I believe there were 13 equal members on the Blu-ray board of directors with Toshiba single handedly controlling HD-DVD. I love Toshiba TV's (I have a HDTV and an SDTV from them), but after having 3 of their DVD players dying in less than 1 year after purchase the idea of them making all of the HD players on the market scared the hell out of me (all HD-DVD players on the market are either Toshiba branded or rebadged Toshiba made players). At least we finally have a winner and my PS3 should enjoy a long life as my primary movie player. Not a sony fanboy as I also own the Xbox360 and Wii but primarily game on my 8800 Sli'd computer. In a side note I pretty excited over Nvidia's announcement to bring PhysX to my video cards. I bought an actual PhysX card for next to nothing right before the acquistion just to be able to play the custom UT3 levels but I actually might get more than i expected out of it if Nvidia allows end users to use it in conjuction with GPU based physics. It seems my second 8800 goes largely unused most of the time so if I can use my PhysX card and 50% of my second 8800 for physics that should allow some pretty immersive physics. Here's to hoping that developers and AMD/ATI quickly jump on board. It would be pretty stupid for AMD/ATI not to, because their GPUs should kick some serious arse for physics and Nvidia always has and most likely always will make better chipsets for their processors than they do.


RE: War sux, just glad we have a winner
By VIAN on 2/16/2008 1:22:11 AM , Rating: 2
I also "believe HD DVD is the best format for consumers, given the value and consistent quality inherent in" them.

I spent a lot of money on HD DVD, but it became clear that it had no chance when Warner Bros. switched. Blu-Ray won due to the platform selling power of the PS3, something I didn't think about when I first researched HD discs.

But, I agree that it's nice to finally have a winner. The content is severely tilted to Blu-Ray. Even though I'm sad to see HD DVD go, for the sake of one format, we should all consider Blu-Ray.


RE: War sux, just glad we have a winner
By mmntech on 2/16/08, Rating: 0
By KamiXkaze on 2/16/2008 11:36:43 AM , Rating: 1
Plus the fact that Sony owns a hollywood studio help as well. The loser in this format war is those that supported HD-DVD early adopters and Toshiba.

KxK


RE: War sux, just glad we have a winner
By PrinceGaz on 2/16/2008 11:49:10 PM , Rating: 4
Come off it, the only reason Blu-Ray won was because of the PS3.

Can you honestly say you believe more people would have bought Blu-Ray players at twice the price of HD-DVD players had the PS3 not existed?

It's good that the format war is over, it didn't end the way I would have preffered, but it doesn't matter in the long run to anyone except those with the equivalent of Betamax VCR boxes. Still I expect they will all easily be able to afford a Blu-Ray player in a few months once the new standard has been finalised (to bring it up to the level of HD-DVD from day one). The right format won in one way, more capacity per layer; but that is unlikely to matter in the long term as both formats have plenty of capacity.

The only winner or loser was the consumer as all HD-DVD players are essentially obsolete, and most Blu-Ray players except the PS3 are not fully compliant. As for the PS3, it may play PS3 discs properly but is a terrible choice for doing so as it eats around 170 watts of power while playing them (normal players are more like 20 watts). Then there is the fact that players will remain more expensive for maybe another year or two now the cheaper offering has left the market and there is no competition.

At least there is always the internet.


By randomlinh on 2/17/2008 9:12:42 AM , Rating: 3
The PS3 was not the only reason. It helped, but there were plenty of low cost HD DVD players out there that undercut Bluray players.

Sony owning a studio was a big push, not to mention the money that passed hands. That factor is more likely to be bigger than the PS3 factor.

And the PS3 is only JUST becoming a force... after FINALLY getting down to a decent price and having it's games hit the system.


RE: War sux, just glad we have a winner
By docinct on 2/17/2008 10:53:03 AM , Rating: 2
HD-DVD players are not "obsolete" per se. It's just that video libraries are not going to get much bigger (assuming people buy rather than rent - oh wait, that option is gone now too). The players will work for years to come and the HD-DVDs will last as long as regular DVDs do.

I do think the consumers have lost; the only real winner is Sony who can (as someone pointed out) reap the revenues from licensing fees etc. (as did Toshiba on DVD technology).

I personally don't see a big up tick in sales, if 10million PS/3 sales can't promote lot's of BR sales, a million is affected HD-DVD owners won't.


By Ricky Williams on 2/19/2008 9:14:22 AM , Rating: 2
I don't see your point about the consumers being the one's to lose (other than those who bought HD-DVD players). If the war had ended up a stalemate like the SACD/DVD audio then the consumers would have lost. Somebody had to win the format war for the consumer to see any benefit unless you just don't want to watch movies in HD. I'm still amazed at how many people equate Blu-ray to a Sony only format and HD-DVD as some sort of open format as the truth is quite the opposite. Toshiba is the only company controlling HD-DVD with MS throwing in cash to confuse the market whereas Blu-ray has 13 equal members on it's board of directors with licensing fees being equally distributed. I'll admit this is a big win for Sony as it should create a lot of momentum for the PS3 but that is not neccesarily a bad thing as all of the current gen consoles are looking to be pretty succesful in their own rights. Wii= runaway sales, Xbox360= North American domination, and now now PS3=all in one media player for HD home theater. I personally own all 3 consoles because I'm a tech junkie but all this really does is save me $130 for the Xbox360 HD-DVD add on, which I will probably still pick up eventually on clearance for next to nothing along with some dirt cheap HD-DVDs on fire sales. Or I might get a stand-alone HD-DVD player as prices on the internet are already droping like mad. I think it is good that there is a clear cut winner already as I was beginning to worry that this war would end up a stalemate like the SACD/DVD audio fiasco a few years back where the consumer is the real loser still stuck with crappy sounding non surround CDs. I did pick up a combo DVD Audio/SACD player for next to nothing after both formats were killed in the war along with a few discs, and it is a shame the way that war ended as both formats sound awesome, a quantum leap over traditional CDs. Hopefully fanboys on both sides can be civil and we can all start enjoying more HD movies as the war was definitely limiting the amount of major movie relases.


By Ricky Williams on 2/19/2008 8:40:48 AM , Rating: 2
I agree that the PS3 won the day for blu-ray but I disagree that it is a terrible choice for playing them. Most people don't really care about power consumption as it is still much lower than the average PC. I also disagree about storage capacity. You can never have enough storage capacity and I think HD-DVD was seriously underpowered in that department. When you consider the near unlimited upgradability of the PS3 as a Blu-ray player plus it's excellent performance at upconverting Standard DVDs it is an excellent choice for any home theater setup and that is without even considering that it is a insanely powerful gaming coonsole. Sure it is incredibly hard to program for and will trail the Xbox360 for another year or so (I own all current consoles) developers will just be beginning to unlock it's potential when MS releases the Xbox720 and it might even outlast the 720. Remember sony is targeting a 10 year life cycle for the PS3 that it why it has a supercomputer chip powering it and supercomputers use a little more power, of course the new 40 GB models with the die shrink for the cell processor use substantially less power and render your just about useless point completely useless, and when the RSX also recieves a die shrink it will totally negate any merit your arguement might have as that should bring power consumption down to about 50 watts or so. Something else to think about is that MS is the one that is really keeping blu-ray prices inflated by not dropping the price on the Xbox360 like they should. If they dropped the price of the Xbox360 by $100 then Sony would have to respond with PS3 prices cuts which would force price drops on stand-alone blu-ray players. Never considered that did you?


By pax256 on 2/16/2008 6:56:56 AM , Rating: 2
I wouldnt be surprised Toshiba made the best\cheapest combo player later this summer. Thats what Im gonna buy to keep my hd purchases worthwhile. Not buying the hd set in bd again if I dont have to.

Unless they let us trade in our hd dvds as was rumored for bd versions...


By Hiawa23 on 2/16/2008 1:39:22 PM , Rating: 2
I have both a HD DVD player & a PS3 so I really didn't care who won, but this really is not suprising. Please just drop the HD DVD players, & movies prices so I can pick up another one up cheap to have as a backup.


By Polynikes on 2/18/2008 12:54:04 PM , Rating: 2
To be honest, I'm glad Blu-Ray won, simply because I will buy a PS3 some day, and when I do, I won't want to have to buy HD-DVDs and another player.


Well...
By falacy on 2/15/2008 5:27:33 PM , Rating: 5
I'm glad I didn't spend money on either format. That was the easiest upgrade decision I've ever made.




RE: Well...
By Xerio on 2/15/2008 5:31:08 PM , Rating: 2
WOOHOO! Me neither. I wasn't chompin' at the bit to buy into either camp, so I am good.

I am glad that is all but over. I was leaning towards HD-DVD, but I really didn't care. I just didn't want to have to buy a combo player and deal with two formats.


RE: Well...
By Omega215D on 2/15/2008 5:41:12 PM , Rating: 2
Looks like Toshiba will no longer include HD DVD with their laptops which is a shame for those who bought those.


RE: Well...
By cubdukat on 2/15/2008 6:08:53 PM , Rating: 2
Well, they'll still be obligated to support it for at least five years past discontinuation.

Man, I'm glad I didn't buy that XBox 360 HD-DVD add-on.

Now all we need are for Paramount, Universal and Weinstein Company to announce they're going Blu-Ray (in Paramount's case, that would be "going back"), and HD-DVD can call it a day. I give it until April at best before one or all of those dumps HD-DVD.


RE: Well...
By EglsFly on 2/15/2008 6:28:32 PM , Rating: 2
I wonder what is going to happen with the $150M contract Toshiba paid Universal, if they(Toshiba) are going to drop their own format. Will Universal get to keep the remainder of the money and release Blu-Ray discs, or will they be locked into supported the dead hd-dvd format until their contract expires?


RE: Well...
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/15/2008 7:03:44 PM , Rating: 1
No money ever exchanged hands. The $150M was in the form of advertising and whatnot.

The real question is how long until the HD-DVD Exclusives are released on Blu-Ray? Most of them require the Blu-Ray2.0 Spec due to the special features on the HD-DVD version that I'm sure they will want to put on the Blu-Ray version. Yea Blu-Ray won, but at the end of the day this will prevent many titles from being available in High-Def for many months to come.


RE: Well...
By Malhavoc on 2/15/2008 8:02:37 PM , Rating: 2
My guess is that Paramount and Universal have had these things on the back burner already and will have their "Now available in Blu-Ray" commercials ready soon as Toshiba makes their announcement.


RE: Well...
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/15/08, Rating: 0
RE: Well...
By theflux on 2/17/2008 12:46:37 PM , Rating: 2
Wrong. I believe the movie War is already a Profile 2.0 release, as it uses network features.


RE: Well...
By walk2k on 2/17/2008 12:57:44 PM , Rating: 3
It doesn't matter anyway since all players will play all discs. They just won't have access to the interactive features until they are upgraded.

Another non-issue.


RE: Well...
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/17/08, Rating: 0
RE: Well...
By EuroGamer on 2/16/2008 4:16:14 AM , Rating: 3
Agreed in my opinion, HDDVD was a better format, especially given that, seeing as I'm living in Europe, it was ZONEFREE. Cheap dollar, lotsa business travels = lotsa half priced movies.

Guess I'll go for the cheap discounts now... Anyways, got both HDDVD player and a BlueRay player in the house so not that sad, but still sucks.


RE: Well...
By Chaser on 2/16/2008 7:48:59 PM , Rating: 2
Can you explain what "special features" on the HD DVD version require the Blue-Ray spec 2.0? They don't have to necessarily carry them over I don't think. I'm sure that just like any other BD whatever they release will work.


RE: Well...
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/17/2008 4:34:46 AM , Rating: 3
Many of the interactivity features, as well as the internet enabled ones as seen on Transformers and The Matrix. Since BR players don't have ethernet ports until 2.0 spec. Aside from the PS3 that is. Hollywood spent a lot of development time and money into these cool little "special features" and I have no doubt they want to provide it on players. Heck many of the 1.0 players don't even contain a secondary audio/video decoder so no PiP during the movie on movies that support it. This was changed with 1.1 spec to my knowledge. A good example of this would be the Blu-Ray and HD DVD versions of "300". There was clearly a lot lacking on the Blu-Ray version compared to the HD DVD version.

Long story short, the 2.0 spec will finally allow for the BD-Live features and interactivity the studios have enjoyed on HD DVD since the get go.


RE: Well...
By kellehair on 2/18/2008 10:00:06 AM , Rating: 2
Despite those shortcomings the BD version outsold the HD version of 300 better than 2 to 1. Maybe these features aren't quite as important as BD detractors like to make them seem.


RE: Well...
By bunga28 on 2/15/2008 7:04:28 PM , Rating: 2
stick a fork in it because it's done!


RE: Well...
By zsdersw on 2/16/2008 10:29:02 AM , Rating: 2
Indeed. It's comforting to know I didn't buy the current equivalent of Beta.


RE: Well...
By Denigrate on 2/16/2008 6:17:01 PM , Rating: 2
I bought a Toshiba HD-A2 off Ebay last summer for $200, hated the thing, and Ebay'd it 3 months later for $180. Next week, Wal-mart and others had the A2 for $99.

Lucky me.


And another thing....
By straycat74 on 2/15/2008 5:55:54 PM , Rating: 2
What is motivating these retailers? Is this like Intel pressuring computer makers? I mean PS3 wasn't selling all that well for most of last year, and none of the stores felt they needed to pick a winner there. Don't tell me Wal-Mart wants to just give me the best of anything. I go there to get my boxer briefs on occasion, and maybe a bag of chips. But I don't go there to buy the 'best' of anything.




RE: And another thing....
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/15/2008 7:09:52 PM , Rating: 1
Declining DVD Sales are what is driving this. If you watch the statistics over the past year DVD sales have been declining considerably. They studios want a way to bring in a new media format, way to re-release movies everyone already owns, as well as provide higher margins and higher profits. From a business stand point, they would like to release in High-Def only and not even DVD. By unifying behind one standard (Blu-Ray) they are trying to say there is a clear choice, just bite and come with them to high-def land. What they are failing miserably to consider is that people are saving money and aren't willing to buy cheap DVD's. I'm not sure what these studio's are thinking, that people are really gonna pay more at a time when everyones trying to save money due to the economy? Yea right.


RE: And another thing....
By SlyNine on 2/15/2008 10:59:34 PM , Rating: 2
I love these CEO's and corporate types, They seem to think they can just increase profit margins every year, When no one is getting pay raises to keep up and we are out sourcing. They seem too think this money just appears out of thin air. They fail to realize a lot of it came from the now diminishing middle class.

If they want to get "higher" every year, their needs to be solid ground to build on.


RE: And another thing....
By masher2 (blog) on 2/15/08, Rating: 0
RE: And another thing....
By SlyNine on 2/16/2008 1:18:13 AM , Rating: 4
Please explain how these guys are going to continue to get more money each year, When the dollar drops and our pockets run out.

One of the things that made it possible to continue their march to larger profits every year was the fact that people here were willing and able to spend that money. Logically if no one can spend as much people will start saving more, so while it worked in the past I doubt it will continue to work. I believe they shot them selves in the foot when they started out sourcing.

Its OK to want more money, just remember where its coming from, If you dry up the pockets of the people spending the money. Then your pockets will start to dry up as well. They will continue to try to make us poorer, them richer by comparison until the difference between the poor becomes so great to the extent of 10x worse then it is now. Then what will happen.

Unless the magical symbolic self sustaining Stockmarket can increase stock prices without actually selling any goods, I don't see how this is avoidable.

Just want your opinion all knowing Masher, not a lesson in why im stupid. :P


RE: And another thing....
By Laitainion on 2/16/2008 5:00:34 AM , Rating: 2
That's not a bad piece of economic theory. In essence you are correct, the money for continual growth comes from ever increasing debt (loans, credit cards and so on).

The problem as you so rightly stated is that continued growth depends on continual spending (i.e. by consumers, who have confidence in the market). This increased spending is primarily in the form of the consumer taking on increased debt. The resulting increase in inflation of the increase in overall spending means that year on year people can keep borrowing more and more.

Ultimately though this is unsustainable as it means the economy is not built on money, or goods but debt. Hence the boom-bust cycle our capitalist economy seems to have.


RE: And another thing....
By zsdersw on 2/16/2008 10:34:06 AM , Rating: 1
You can thank our current President for the weak dollar.. and places like Japan for financing a larger and larger portion of our government.


RE: And another thing....
By Denigrate on 2/16/2008 6:21:43 PM , Rating: 4
Bullspit. You can thank idiot lenders who gave money to anyone and everyone who wanted to buy a house without considering whether the person could actually pay back the loan.

Granted, the huge trade imbalance that Bush basically allows to happen with China and others does not help, but that is just continuation of previous presidents crap.


RE: And another thing....
By zsdersw on 2/17/2008 8:58:19 AM , Rating: 1
While irresponsible lending in the private sector is but one cancer on the economy, its increased and persistent deficit spending (that Bush largely contributed to with a combination of war spending and tax cuts) that's watering down the dollar. Government should've been cut elsewhere to pay for the war, but.. since Republicans are really the same on a money-grabbing level as Democrats.. that didn't happen.

Cheney was wrong (big surprise, I know).. deficits *do* matter.


RE: And another thing....
By KamiXkaze on 2/16/2008 12:09:09 PM , Rating: 2
Plus the problem with taking on more dept means huge defaults on loans which is why the sub prime is in deep trouble right now.

KxK


RE: And another thing....
By crystal clear on 2/16/2008 1:52:14 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Declining DVD Sales are what is driving this.


Then one has to ask the question-why ?

Why those declining sales ?

Do these content providers/producers/retailers bother to find out "why" ?

Do they bother to ask the buyers ?

Any answers to these questions ?

quote:
They studios want a way to bring in a new media format, way to re-release movies everyone already owns, as well as provide higher margins and higher profits.


This is called rebranding-the same chocolate with a different wrapper & a new brand name,promoted with a massive marketing campaign.

Sorry does NOT work-the buyers dont get fooled so easily-they simply don buy.

quote:
What they are failing miserably to consider is that people are saving money and aren't willing to buy cheap DVD's.


People are not saving but in fact paying those accumulated debts they have acquired in the past,in an economic climate of stagnant salaries,job losses,high energy/fuel cost & living cost .

People aren't willing to buy those cheap contents in those DVDs,putting these low quality contents in a high defination format will not sell either.

People will not pay more rather simply prefer not to BUY-hey time pay up those debts !


RE: And another thing....
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/16/2008 7:14:09 PM , Rating: 2
Yes but the media companies are thinking otherwise.


RE: And another thing....
By crystal clear on 2/16/2008 9:27:30 PM , Rating: 2
Yes indeed thats what I think also.

I wish they are aware of Project Lifeline.

A bill recently signed by Pres Bush to bail out those home owners who are in serious trouble,with their mortgage repayments.

Those who qualify for "Project Lifeline" will number in their thousands if not more.

Thats the seriousness of this crisis !

Living cost take first priority over everything else.

As for the media companies-

Its time for cost cutting + reprganization+ restructoring & ofcourse firing a lot of people from their jobs.

Its time they be aware of this-

"Money never starts an idea; it is the idea that starts the money."


People want contents not packaging !

Give them quality contents packaged in a high def format at competitive prices.

Its about time these media companies become aware of the realities of life.


RE: And another thing....
By powerincarnate on 2/17/2008 1:41:35 PM , Rating: 2
To be honest, what bothered me the most late last year was how anand, and Master Kenobi presented an argument that had the tone of keeping the two formats around for a few years, and with the general goal of Downloading will take over anyways. It was almost like, to hell with the new HDM optical disc since my preferred format is losing.

The way I saw it, since two years ago, since the blu-ray group and the HD-DVD group met several times to try to combine the standard was to get ONE standard out there. Whatever the standard, get it out there so that we and the public can get on with our lives. Once they couldn't agree on a standard then personally, though you may not agree, I felt like Blu-Ray had the most potential. HD-DVD guys will argue picture in picture and the web. If i need the web, I'll go on the internet, it isn't 1995 anymore, it's 2008, we can and will obtain all available information and video extras anyway. Plus, it was only a temporary advatange, something easily removed within 2-3 years. Now, the GB difference though, that should last the 10-15 or so years that blu-ray would have been available. With that you get the potential for better transfers, and better audio, and much more extras, especially high definition extras.

Then when you factor in that DVDs has been around for 13 or so years now and no longer a must have gift, sales are declining, more and more people will have HDTVs and no matter how much upconverting you do, it will always look somewhat blurry due to low resolution. Add in the fact that the all PS3s came with blu-ray, and all projections see the PS3's worldwide ranking will be 2nd and 360 third in sales by the time this generation is over. Plus the 360 NOT releasing an internal drive, due to their strategy of coming out first, and undercutting the PS3 in price, plus the potential difference things like loading would be on Some HD-DVD enabled 360 vs. Regular 360s. Throw in the fact that Sony had a Movie Studio, had the hard coating for rental places like Blockbuster and Netflix, and in light of the Music Industry losing tons of money and going the right of Big Brother with all of the RIAA lawsuits, and the goal of the MPAA to not allow the same thing to happen to them and thus Disney and several other companies wanted the extra protection and region coating. The results is, HD-DVD never had a chance. . Its only strategy was to Lose money by dropping the price, and hope that this will counter the PS3's effect.

Now that it is over, Can we get an official comment so some of the die hards can move on and buy a blu-ray. Can we get an official comment so people don't make the same mistake by buying people HD-DVDs last christmas despite writing on the wall. Finally, can we get that official comment so people no longer talk about HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray. I don't see people talking about BetaMax other than to comment about the war. Can we please just Move on and discuss titles coming out, and Demand better picture and sound, instead of demanding it to be released in a rival format.

P.S. I see Downloading in the near future being more like the way 360 implement it, and the way cable companies like Optimum implement it and that is On Demand. True High Definition with all the bells and wistles of video and sound that a large percentage of the public will download, is FAR Far away. Just cause Microsoft will like it to happen, doesn't mean it is automatic, after all, Didn't they back HD-DVD, didn't they back WebTV, Where is WebTV. They are allowed to make mistakes as well.


By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/17/2008 2:30:22 PM , Rating: 2
Actually Masher was the one who presented the argument to keep both around here. I simply agree. Give credit where it is due. :P


RE: And another thing....
By Serafina on 2/15/08, Rating: -1
RE: And another thing....
By sweetsauce on 2/16/2008 1:17:52 AM , Rating: 2
You posted on the wrong account. Oooops?


So, How long until
By straycat74 on 2/15/2008 5:46:57 PM , Rating: 2
it really matters? What about movies on flash cards, or downloads, or better yet what happened to holographic media? Is the winner so soon that it will soon be the winner of nothing?
Although, it would be interesting to see what happens if combo players hit the market cheap down the road, will HDDVD make a comeback?




RE: So, How long until
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/15/2008 10:34:06 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Although, it would be interesting to see what happens if combo players hit the market cheap down the road, will HDDVD make a comeback?

Not likely. If Toshiba decides to concede they could make combo players viable by opening the HD-DVD spec as an open standard that anyone can use, no fees or licensing required. Given how easy it is to produce a combo player, if you eliminate any costs associated with licensing, adding in HD-DVD readability for "added value" would be childs play for most hardware manufacturers.

quote:
it really matters? What about movies on flash cards, or downloads, or better yet what happened to holographic media? Is the winner so soon that it will soon be the winner of nothing?

Now this is rather interesting. Given the current level of technology, and given market trends this is possible. High-Def only consists of around 5% of the total market. Depending on how long adoption takes there are two possibilites.

#1- Market adoption takes off by 2009, by then the economy should be picking up and would help to put money in people's pockets for this sort of thing. Blu-Ray would overtake DVD sales probably by 2015 or 2016. It took DVD something like 4 years to surpass VHS and it was a major improvement. No rewind, yea we all loved that selling point. By 2020 we can assume a new format would be positioning for launch to replace Blu-Ray. What that is and what shape it will take is a bit far off at the minute but I have a theory which I will explain in point #2.

#2- Blu-Ray does not gain market adoption quickly enough. If by 2015 (I picked this year arbitrarily since it should be in the "hay day" for Blu-Ray) Blu-Ray does not have sufficient market penetration (ex. >50%) they risk being leapfrogged much like Laserdisc was. Holographic storage is already in limited use as a tape drive replacement. The beauty of holographic is that we currently use a CD sized medium since people are familiar with it. The medium is however not required to conform to that form factor. It could be the size of a Mini-CD or a postage stamp. The size currently dictates maximum storage space. Currently they can fit 300GB of storage on a CD sized disk(Available on market now). They recently upped that to 1TB on a CD sized disk, and are promising 1.6TB in the next year or so. Impressive tech. Currently holographic is positioned as a replacement to old Tape Drives (thank god). But given the technology as it matures there is no reason it could not replace Blu-Ray as the successor medium around 2020 (Expected timeframe when Blu-Ray will be succeeded by a newer format to meet newer demands). 1080P is the current (as good as it gets) on a TV screen but OLED and other technologies promising to surpass that in the next few years, and cameras already capable of recording in resolutions far greater than 1080, one has to wonder if Blu-Ray will be short lived. Even if Blu-Ray lives to 2020 as expected, the future is quite clear. Holographic storage is almost guaranteed to be the successor medium of choice. The question at that point will likely be how best to do it. Should we stick with archaic CD style mediums or should we truly take it into the future and make it a crystal of some sort that you just plug into a socket?
(Referencing the ones from Babylon 5, which are a neat idea)
http://infinicorp.com/VEX/technology/data-crystals...

In any case, I encourage anyone interested in Holographic storage to look into the company leading it. Excellent read regardless.
http://www.inphase-technologies.com/


RE: So, How long until
By KamiXkaze on 2/16/2008 3:12:03 PM , Rating: 2
even if this new format does come to pass will consumers jump to it that soon considering how long they've been with DVD over 10 years.

KxK


RE: So, How long until
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/16/2008 4:07:00 PM , Rating: 2
Well as we saw with this generation of formats, it isnt focused on consumers at all. It's focused on media companies. If the media companies decide that they need something better by 2020 (which is likely since that would be about the 12 year mark for Blue-Ray) they will jump on it.


RE: So, How long until
By omnicronx on 2/16/2008 8:13:35 PM , Rating: 1
I think February 2009 will have a huge impact on the high def market. Everyone will have access to HD content for free, at least those who previously used vhf/uhf antennas to watch TV.

I dont know about you, but I never thought too highly of either High def formats until i saw them in action for myself.