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Print 151 comment(s) - last by ZombieMutha.. on Dec 2 at 9:49 AM


Don't worry gamers, a fix for your banned Xbox 360 is coming.
No ETA for fix, but modders are hard at work

Every fall Microsoft tends to try to find ways to ban Xbox modders from its Xbox Live service.  Microsoft detests modding, as it allows users to accomplish forbidden activities, such as playing backups of games, playing out of zone DVDs, installing alternative operating systems, or playing pirated games.

This holiday season Microsoft has a special surprise in store for "naughty" Xbox 360 hackers -- a particular sweeping ban that relies on spotting modified drive firmware.  Rolled out starting last week, the ban, according to sources, blocks the installation of games on the Xbox hard drive, blocks the Windows Media Player media extender, corrupts saves/Gamertags used on the machine, and most significantly prevents the console from accessing Xbox Live.

According to early estimates 600,000 consoles were effected, but more recent estimates put the number at close to 1 million consoles.

Microsoft has suggested that users with banned consoles find another Xbox.  However, users with a banned Xbox 360 may not want to throw away their consoles just yet.  According to the site 360Mods, c4eva has abandoned work on his Lite-on and Hitachi drive mods to try to establish a workaround.

The new workaround, dubbed iXtreme LT (Light Touch) aims to provide a minimum amount of security checks and aims to make the firmware as close to the stock firmware as possible to prevent detection.  This fix may allow modified consoles to return to playing backup discs and other forbidden materials without Microsoft noticing.

Other members of the community are working on strategies to try to undo the changes made by Microsoft, which neuter the banned consoles, depriving them of much of their functionality (though they still will play games offline).  Like Apple's attempts to brick unlocked/jailbroken iPhones, it seems only a matter of time before the creative and dedicated community comes up with a full work around.

Correction:  Earlier we posted a link to an older version of iXtreme, indicating that the software was done.  It is, in fact, not yet done.  We will issue an update when the patch is released or when other workarounds are completed for the banned Xbox 360's.

Update: Friday, Nov. 13, 2009 12:30 p.m.: 

A fix appears to have arrived, according to some of the forums, but it is rather complex and requires access to either an Xbox 360 you know the CPU key of, or did not update over the summer.  According to user k0mpresd on Xbox-Scene:
what you need:

your 8955 live console + cpu key
a 2nd unbanned console
nandpro b + flash cable
xell loader
degraded
1888 fs
robinsod's flashtool

process:

use nandpro and dump nand from unbanned console.
flash xell and use jtag hack to obtain cpu key.
use flashtool to extract file system.

dump nand from 8955 console.
use flashtool to patch nand dump with kv.bin from unbanned console.
save patched file (patched_kv.bin).

open degraded + 1888 fs.
create 1888 downgrader image (downgrader.bin) from your patched_kv.bin file.

flash downgrader.bin to 8955 console.
attach hdd + ethernet cable and boot console.

connect to live and update to 8955 dashboard.

console is now fully working and unbanned!

Again, this relies on a variety of free tools, and can be a somewhat complex process.  You are using the key to gain access to keyvault on the unbanned console.  Without the key you will not be able to access the keyvault to transfer to the banned console.  Also, it may not be wise to log the fixed (banned) Xbox 360 on to Xbox Live at the same time as the console you grabbed the keyvault from.  Some users are suggesting this could result in the ban of both consoles. 

Restoring your console may add to the EULA and legal violations you may already have committed and we do not recommend  or condone it in any way.


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Dailytech supports the modders?
By peritusONE on 11/13/2009 12:51:59 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
We will issue an update when the patch is released or when other workarounds are completed for the banned Xbox 360's.


I'm sure the modders appreciate having their own media site in their back pocket.

I support the Microsoft banning of consoles to Live. It will cut down on the cheaters and pirates that I have to deal with online.




RE: Dailytech supports the modders?
By silverblue on 11/13/2009 12:57:14 PM , Rating: 1
Yes... would DT be in any sort of legal hot water if MS saw this?


RE: Dailytech supports the modders?
By boden on 11/13/2009 9:34:42 PM , Rating: 5
No daily tech is only reporting.

This kind of draconian restriction is ridiculous. If I buy a 60$ game for my kids, I'm burning a copy for them to use and putting the original away so that when they mess up the copy I can just burn another. You have the right to make backup's for your media be they dvd's cd's or games.


By William Gaatjes on 11/14/2009 2:34:52 AM , Rating: 3
I totally agree. However, the business model is based on the economic model. To keep selling products for an infinite amount of time. That's why these restrictions are cooked up. Flawed economic design.

And i find it insane that a dvd from another zone cannot be played on the xbox. What's up with that. That would make part of my legally bought dvd collection not viewable if i would buy an xbox. O well, i guess that xbox makes way to much noise anyway to watch a movie or documentary.


RE: Dailytech supports the modders?
By rburnham on 11/14/2009 9:27:26 AM , Rating: 2
Problem is that "backup" argument probably only counts for a small percentage of modders. I would imagine most people just want to use pirated games.


RE: Dailytech supports the modders?
By Lerianis on 11/14/2009 8:15:31 PM , Rating: 1
As they as..... 'ass'ume makes an ass of you and me.

Microsoft does not have the right to 'assume' that everyone with a modified console is a pirate. Now, if they have proof that they were playing UNRELEASED games, then they have a reason to totally ban the console from XBox Live... but even then, they do NOT, repeat N O T have a right to disable any functionality on my console SAVE for playing on XBox Live.

Also, the 'modified to play backups' thing is more common than you would think. I have 4 friends who modified their consoles so they could play backup games.... if Microsoft would make this functionality work OUT OF THE BOX, then people wouldn't have to modify their consoles.... but of course, their whole business model is based on making on buy the same thing numerous times, which is a load of crap to be mild about it.


RE: Dailytech supports the modders?
By jkostans on 11/15/2009 9:58:52 AM , Rating: 2
Of course they have the right to assume, 99.9% of modded 360s have been used to play illegal copies of games (any copy of a game YOU did not buy). They do not base their business model on people re-buying games, that's just idiotic. Like everything else in life, take care of it and it will last. Microsoft is protecting themselves, and I don't see anything wrong with it. If you don't like Microsoft's rules, don't buy their products.

I personally love what steam has going, although they've had some severe growing pains. I buy all of my games this way so I don't have to deal with physical media. Not to mention the software companies make more money with sales that bring games I normally wouldn't buy into the impulse-buy range.


RE: Dailytech supports the modders?
By neogrin on 11/16/2009 11:25:27 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
99.9% of modded 360s have been used to play illegal copies of games (any copy of a game YOU did not buy).


I call BS. Site your source.


RE: Dailytech supports the modders?
By aj28 on 11/16/2009 5:57:27 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
I call BS. Site your source.


I call BS on your grammar.

Microsoft can do as they please. Regardless of what right you think you have, until the U.S. court system comes down on them, they don't answer to you and your personal sense of justice. They did this to defend against piracy, a difficult feat in the console world, and to attempt to control cheating on Xbox Live, thus preserving its value to paying customers. While I'm sure there are plenty of people out there copying discs for no purpose other than backup, rather than redistribution, implying that said scenario should be the basis for all decisions such as these is like saying Napster shouldn't have been shut down because not 100% of the content was illegal.


RE: Dailytech supports the modders?
By christojojo on 11/15/2009 9:55:55 PM , Rating: 3
My son has killed three discs. The replacements will cost me $20 apiece. If you dont believe me look at the pdf on the link below.

http://support.xbox.com/support/en/us/xbox360/game...

For the record I have not nor do I intend on modding my kids' 360. I just think they should replace for free.


RE: Dailytech supports the modders?
By ShaolinSoccer on 11/16/2009 5:54:37 AM , Rating: 1
Or, you can discipline your kids by taking away the Xbox everytime they scratch a disk and make it unplayable? Your breeding spoiled brats and you're gonna end up paying for it the rest of your life...


RE: Dailytech supports the modders?
By Lerianis on 11/16/2009 11:27:46 AM , Rating: 1
No, he is not. You, like that other asinine poster, are living in a dream world where things do not get damaged, even when you take the BEST care of them.

I have discs that I have treated like they are made of SOLID PLATINUM (not overstating there) and they still get scratched! The fact is that DVD's, CD's, and even Blu-Ray's are EXTREMELY SCRATCH PRONE and the drives sometimes scratch them for no reason.

Hell, I had that happen with an original XBox..... I got a new game, made sure after I took it out, put it in the console to play........ 4 hours later, I take it out, the thing is FULL of scratches.
I call Microsoft to tell them about this.... NOT COVERED UNDER WARRANTY, because it's 'normal wear and tear'.

That's what has kept me from buying a PS3 or XBox360 until VERY RECENTLY, because they were calling stuff like that normal wear and tear.


RE: Dailytech supports the modders?
By jRaskell on 11/16/2009 1:09:12 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
I have discs that I have treated like they are made of SOLID PLATINUM (not overstating there) and they still get scratched! The fact is that DVD's, CD's, and even Blu-Ray's are EXTREMELY SCRATCH PRONE and the drives sometimes scratch them for no reason.


I have owned PCs for over 15 years. I also own:
PS2
XBox
PS3
XBox360
Wii

In all those years I've purchased over a hundred games across all those platforms (probably over 200, I haven't kept exact track). I cannot recall ever having a single scratched disk. And I don't treat them anywhere near SOLID PLATINUM (not even sure what kind of treatment that would even be). Hell, I currently have a stack of nearly a dozen DVDs on top of my PC right now, of all the games I regularly play, and even that has never been a problem.

I don't know, maybe my real world is the dream world you refer to, but given the number of times I've banged my shins or stubbed my toes on various items of furnite, I really don't find anything dreamy about it.


RE: Dailytech supports the modders?
By christojojo on 11/16/2009 4:20:00 PM , Rating: 2
Thank you for judging my kids. Its nice to know you are stalking my family watching the way they treat things Shaolin.

My kids are on a limited gaming income. I do not go out and buy the game of the day. They get a few games a year out of my pocket any other one they pay for themselves with money they earn for themselves, shoveling, doing lawns etc.

I know it is hard to believe oh opinionated one but scratches happen I don't know ho wbut they do. I suspect poor QC on the drive tray the xbox 360 lies on its long flat side not the advertised long side up crap.

Sometimes the game stays in there for its short life one day it works the next not. It could be poor disc quality.

It could be the fact that children are not refect automatons you rule with your mind.

If you want to give me parental advice give birth or be a goo dfather not a controlling forum troll.

Yes I found your hasty judgment offensive. Give me parental advice after you sit in the hospital with a son with the flu wondering if he will make it. Give me advice when one of your children brakes up with his girlfriend. Give me advice when one of your children gets cut from his team.

Otherwise keep your advice to tech and politics.


RE: Dailytech supports the modders?
By aj28 on 11/16/2009 6:05:58 PM , Rating: 3
In the spirit of fairness, I think he's entitled to his opinion, regardless of the subject matter. I'm in a similar boat, being entirely unable to recall a time where a disc was damaged by the drive in my PSX, PS2, Gamecube, Wii, or any optical drive I've ever installed in a PC, which amounts to a lot considering I do it on a daily basis. I can't say anything about Microsoft's quality control standards in particular, but I do find the idea of discs being scratched by the drive itself to a depth making them unreadable a bit, well, uncommon.


RE: Dailytech supports the modders?
By thekdub on 11/16/2009 11:29:22 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
No daily tech is only reporting.

I think it went a bit beyond "just reporting" when the author of the article included the necessary steps in order to circumvent the ban.


RE: Dailytech supports the modders?
By Narbo on 11/13/2009 1:17:35 PM , Rating: 4
Pirated copies in play on XBL sure.

Cheaters no. The DVD firmware mod in no way shape or form enables or aids people to cheat on XBL and banning consoles will not change anything. Regardless, 95% of "cheating" on XBL is people with modified controllers not consoles.

Do not believe anything M$ releases in a press statement. The bottom line behind their motivation is and always will be profit.


RE: Dailytech supports the modders?
By chick0n on 11/13/2009 1:26:19 PM , Rating: 2
Whats wrong with protecting your own company's profit? they spent millions if not billions for create xbox brand for what?

profit.

Lets face it, those "OMG I WANT TO HAVE A BACKUP COPY OF MY GAMES, FUXKING MICROSOFT I AINT BUYING UR $HIT N E MORE!" yada yada are nothing but load of free leechers.

backup? my a$$.

they just want to play without pay. dling ISOs and crap and burn it and laugh "haha M$ Im playing for free"

Suck it bittttCCcCCoooOOOCCCCHHHHHHCCCHHH !

You make it sound like its wrong for MS to ban modders/block free leechers.


RE: Dailytech supports the modders?
By Narbo on 11/13/2009 1:50:52 PM , Rating: 5
I agree with you, however I don't think you should be implying that a pirated copy directly translates to a lost sale.

Studies with downloaded music have shown that most of the time these 'pirates' spend more on the system then legitimate customers. For example the individual who plays a lot of ISOs probably also buys a fair bit of DLC as well as peripherals as well as an XBL subscription. He/she probably owns a fair amount of non pirate titles as well, possibly more then your 'legitimate' customer. On top of this he/she may drive console sales by encouraging their friends to purchase products.

I guess what I am saying is that people with modified drives are rarely using the machine EXCLUSIVELY for piracy and if they are they probably can't afford to purchase anything legitimately anyhow!

Of course Microsoft in issuing bans will take the route of maximum profit while spinning PR about 'protecting the live experience'.

The first group of people will probably just go buy another console and carry on when new firmware is released. The second group was never giving them any money in the first place so obviously cutting them off is a good thing.

Win win for Microsoft. ;)


RE: Dailytech supports the modders?
By dwalton on 11/13/2009 2:49:52 PM , Rating: 1
The only thing those studies tell me is that people who pirate music alot then to like music alot and will readily expand their collection even when their wallets won't let them. Meaning that most piraters who engaged in alot of legal purchasing would still buy the music even if the option of pirating music was eliminated.

I am not sure why people construe those studies in a way that justifies the act by basically saying that alot of pirating leads to greater sales. As if eliminating the option of pirating would somehow discourage legal purchasing of music in any meaningful way.

Maybe its all true and everyone else including MS has it all wrong. Maybe they should come out with new innovative promotion.

BUY TEN 360 TITLES AND GET 5 FREE BOOTLEGS.

then MS can hit those who indulge in pirating alittle too much with this...

"YOU HAVE BEEN PERMANENTLY BANNED FROM LIVE FOR GOING OVER YOUR ALLOTMENT OF PERMISSIBLE BOOTLEGGING."


RE: Dailytech supports the modders?
By PrinceGaz on 11/13/09, Rating: -1
By MrPoletski on 11/16/2009 7:10:53 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
As if eliminating the option of pirating would somehow discourage legal purchasing of music in any meaningful way.


YES IT DOES.

DRM and copy protection schemes are fifty kinds of annoying and penalise legitimate buyers. 'Spore' was nearly totally boycotted because of its DRM (which achieved nothing) and look at the 'virus proof' crap sony tried to pull with its root kits on CD's.

Do you want to install a piece of software (or just pop an audio CD in) on your PC that has the potential to:

a) Not work because you have an oddball DVD drive
b) Overwrite your system drivers with 'secure' drivers without asking you, telling you that it has done it.. oh and by the way they are about as secure as a thai whores virginity.
c) Force you to use and/or store/organise in a particular way that the DRM deems 'allowable' even though it's different from your current chosen way.
d) Cease working after a given date because they can't be bothered to maintain the DRM servers and you have to access them in order to view the material you PAID for.

Peeps, there are more, please augment my point by listing items e through to z!


RE: Dailytech supports the modders?
By dragonbif on 11/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: Dailytech supports the modders?
By William Gaatjes on 11/14/2009 2:39:53 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Lets face it, those "OMG I WANT TO HAVE A BACKUP COPY OF MY GAMES, FUXKING MICROSOFT I AINT BUYING UR $HIT N E MORE!" yada yada are nothing but load of free leechers. backup? my a$$.


Although some people fit with the description you so graphically give...

There exist people who actually buy and backup there bought media material because :

A they like it.
B they want to support the developer for making games they like.

Don't think so black and white.


RE: Dailytech supports the modders?
By mindless1 on 11/14/2009 11:20:51 AM , Rating: 2
There is a simple and very common reason to backup media. Young kids! They're he!! on optical discs but commonly seen gravitating to video games.


RE: Dailytech supports the modders?
By Lerianis on 11/14/2009 8:40:18 PM , Rating: 2
True... young kids are hell on optical discs, even the ones who take care of them very well. My 8 year old cousin has been shown by me how to take care of discs and she follows my instructions.... but yet the discs still get scratched. I checked the underside of a BRAND-NEW disc before and after I took it out.... scratched, and I treat these things like they were made of stained glass.

The only solution I personally could come to...... the discs are much more fragile and scratchprone than they are made out to be. The next consoles had better either go to flash drive distribution, download distro, or the discs better have much better coatings on them... that are self-healing like some that the military use.


RE: Dailytech supports the modders?
By lewislink on 11/14/09, Rating: -1
By Berserkleon on 11/15/2009 1:38:11 AM , Rating: 2
First, no. It is completely legal to make a backup of a disc you have bought as long as it is for personal use. Children do have a tendency to completely screw up optical discs, and depending on your DVD drive, it can be scratching the discs too. very valid reasons to make backups.
Second - iXtreme LT is not going to unban a banned console.


By mindless1 on 11/15/2009 12:26:56 PM , Rating: 2
Ever heard of objectors? "break the law", "above the law"? Give us a break.

I don't suppose you ever break ANY laws? Ever exceed the speed limit? Cross a street anywhere but a crosswalk? Some crimes are worse than others.


RE: Dailytech supports the modders?
By efmtech on 11/19/2009 12:57:07 PM , Rating: 2
If you mod you should be banned. No matter what anyone says or thinks. If you read the agreement when signing up for xbox live it states very clearly:

You will not modify your xbox console. So if you do Microsoft has every right to ban.

Plus 99 % of modders just want to cheat online.


By William Gaatjes on 11/20/2009 6:36:47 PM , Rating: 2
That is why i will never own an xbox. I do not agree with such use. When i buy a device it is mine and i shall use it as how i see fit. The orignal xbox was interesting but is surpassed by low power small form factor pc's. The xbox360 needs xbox live for a reason. It is xbox live that makes money because it chaines the consumer to microsoft. It is just like itunes from apple. A legal channel to get your content but you cannot get that content anywhere else. If you do not agree, do not sign up. And that is again why i never did buy an xbox360.



By dragunover on 11/15/2009 12:16:24 AM , Rating: 3
Stop being a cocksucker.


RE: Dailytech supports the modders?
By Yawgm0th on 11/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: Dailytech supports the modders?
By Yawgm0th on 11/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: Dailytech supports the modders?
By chdude3 on 11/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: Dailytech supports the modders?
By lewislink on 11/13/2009 3:26:34 PM , Rating: 5
I don't have anything but praise for DailyTech for remaining neutral, as they should. They even allow your ass to remain here.

Freedom of the press, people. Its like lawyers, you hate them till you see the need for one. Then you'll try to find the most unscrupulous lawyer there is because you know they'll get the job done for you.

DT is only providing news and information. What people do with it should not be their concern.


RE: Dailytech supports the modders?
By mindless1 on 11/14/2009 11:36:22 AM , Rating: 1
While I am not against DT posting this news, doing so isn't exactly neutral.

For example, if I call my buddy and tell him the "news" that you left home without locking your front door, isn't that making me an accomplice if he robs the place? Am I less of an accomplice if someone told me and then I told the buddy, knowing what the info would be used for?


By lewislink on 11/14/2009 1:12:06 PM , Rating: 1
No, that would make me an idiot for telling my door was unlocked. Unless you broke the law and trespassed on my property to check for an unlocked door.


RE: Dailytech supports the modders?
By Hardin on 11/13/09, Rating: -1
By Major HooHaa on 11/14/2009 8:22:33 AM , Rating: 1
At the end of the day if Microsoft want to cut off a million of their customers, then fair enough, I'm sure there will be some new console along in a minute. It may not go down to well with a million of their customers though. Those customers can always go back to modding their older consoles.

I think publishing a rough guide to modding the Xbox 360 in your article would put you on dodgy legal ground. Even though it the information can probably found elsewhere on the 'net.

If a gamer wants to create new games and mod existing games, PC games companies will provide the tools to do it and even release old gaming engines for the public to do what they want with them.

With some P.C. software, I think it legally allows you to make one copy of that software for the sake of having a backup. With games on Steam it’s certainly an option.


By thelostjs on 11/14/2009 1:26:48 PM , Rating: 2
what would you do if you had never encountered a cheater or a pirate? would you know how to defend yourself? pc gaming helps you keep your BS detector sharp.

i thought that online gaming as a whole was about being a pirate and a cheat. most players i know arent very humble.

i support microsoft banning modified consoles. hopefully the affected will be smart enough to give up and buy a real game console (pc)


what about Console ID
By webdawg77 on 11/13/2009 12:26:26 PM , Rating: 2
As I posted in the earlier (and now redacted) article, how does this change the fact that Microsoft probably has a list of the modded Console IDs?

They still won't be able to get onto XBL even if they upgrade the firmware for the 360 DVD drives.




RE: what about Console ID
By wempa on 11/13/2009 12:41:31 PM , Rating: 1
Yeah, this post does not fully explain what's going on. Consoles banned for being modified are banned permanently.


RE: what about Console ID
By Mitch101 on 11/13/2009 12:53:25 PM , Rating: 5
Cat and Mouse now they will probably be up for a short time then be banned shortly after. More than likely it will not be worth the time and effort the fix takes.

Just go legit and buy used games or learn to live offline forever.


RE: what about Console ID
By MrBlastman on 11/13/2009 1:14:50 PM , Rating: 3
Right on, those developers have families to feed!

Oh, and I love the picture:

I can has video games? ;)

or

I'm in ur couch, strokin ur buttonz!

So cute.


RE: what about Console ID
By sviola on 11/13/2009 1:21:35 PM , Rating: 1
I have a similarly looking kitten, and she just love to type on my laptop. What is amusing is that she only types if you open Word or msn...


RE: what about Console ID
By straycat74 on 11/13/2009 5:22:33 PM , Rating: 1
fags


RE: what about Console ID
By chagrinnin on 11/14/2009 1:33:06 AM , Rating: 2
Not according too Emmanuel Lewis. :P


RE: what about Console ID
By Harinezumi on 11/13/2009 3:01:45 PM , Rating: 2
Not everyone mods to pirate, you know.

I use my old modded PS2 primarily to play Japanese imports and undub/fan translation patches. I'm perfectly happy to pay for a game, even at inflated Japanese prices, if it would actually play on my console. There's only so much room in front of my TV, and I refuse to pay twice for the same piece of hardware. That's one of the main reasons that PS2 still sees more use than my PS3 and 360 combined.


RE: what about Console ID
By bill3 on 11/14/2009 5:22:44 AM , Rating: 2
The 360 homebrew scene is a joke by all accounts though, so yes, on 360, EVERYBODY mods to pirate, more or less.


RE: what about Console ID
By Lerianis on 11/14/2009 8:46:07 PM , Rating: 2
Nope. A lot of people mod to play backup games, which is legal and which if someone wants to take this to court, Microsoft is going to get SLAMMED by the first judge who sees the case.

That 'everyone who mods does it to pirate' statement doesn't hold up in reality unless you are a paid Microsoft poster who takes everything Microsoft tells them as gospel.

I have 4 friends who modded to play backup games and to give backup games to their children to play to protect the original discs from damage.
Now, if everyone in the US like myself, who is kinda average, has 4 friends who did that and they were not overlapping (assume that 3 out of 4 are).... that's a good number of people out there, with of my circle of 10 close friends being taken as the median for most people.


Fix Arrived!
By Jephph on 11/13/09, Rating: 0
RE: Fix Arrived!
By MindParadox on 11/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: Fix Arrived!
By corduroygt on 11/13/2009 1:24:11 PM , Rating: 5
You are clearly misinformed,

There are very few games that render at 1080p on both consoles. Only difference is that x360 can upscale them to 1080p, whereas the ps3 outputs at 720p and lets your tv upscale it to 1080p.

MW2 for example is rendered at 1024x600 on both consoles.
If you truly want to play native 1080p games, you have to get a PC.


RE: Fix Arrived!
By Jephph on 11/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: Fix Arrived!
By Newspapercrane on 11/13/2009 1:38:56 PM , Rating: 3
Have you ever played bioshock on your ps3? It has to install. As does Fallout 3. I know some games don't have to install, but some of them do. I don't have that many ps3 games though, are there other examples of this?


RE: Fix Arrived!
By TSS on 11/13/2009 4:28:46 PM , Rating: 2
you kidding me?

If i remember correctly killzone 2 had to install when i first played the game, though it was short.

Metal Gear Solid 4, on the other hand, installed 10 minutes when i insterted the disk, then another 10 minutes at the beginning of each of the chapters.

Hell it even installed 2 minutes on my 2nd play through at the beginning of each chapter.

But i do have to add, that game i sooo worth waiting the install time for.


RE: Fix Arrived!
By ajira99 on 11/13/2009 1:50:13 PM , Rating: 2
So apparently you've never heard of a little game called Metal Gear Solid 4? You do have to install parts of some games to the hard drive. Fortunately, not for Uncharted 2 or Crack in Time (despite the load times). And nearly every damn download (demos, updates, some videos) needs to be installed. Maybe the "experts" here should stick to established facts unless they can actually quote more than a personal opinion regarding access times and HD resolutions.


RE: Fix Arrived!
By ovad2 on 11/13/2009 3:15:21 PM , Rating: 2
Good point about downloads being installed! Who wants to "install" an update they downloaded? Why install a demo to play it when you can just look at the file sitting there?! I love not installing things I go through the trouble to download - it's the best!


RE: Fix Arrived!
By LSUJester on 11/13/2009 3:33:34 PM , Rating: 2
Just so you guys will know, the 360 does install everything it DL's too. It just does it automatically without letting you know about it.


RE: Fix Arrived!
By Jephph on 11/13/09, Rating: 0
RE: Fix Arrived!
By bill3 on 11/14/2009 5:20:58 AM , Rating: 2
Are you really this stupid? Seriously?

MGS4 loads before every chapter. How the HELL is that updates? Have you ever even played the game?

And uhh, most games on PS3 that require a mandatory install, of which there are a lot (but certainly not all) install only 3-5GB, not "25GB". They're not installing the entire game. Most Blu Ray games probably arent close to 25 GB anyway, just because the space is on the disc doesn't mean it's used. Also, many times PS3 developers "pad" the disc for faster loading (so the needed data is close to the laser when needed), duplicating a lot of data, which makes the file size bigger but it's just repeated data, because Blu Ray IS slower than the 12X DVD in the 360. A good example of this is Modern Warfare 2, if you check Lens of Truth comparison, they tested, and the load times on PS3 are longer from disc than they are on 360.

Of course, there are a few games on PS3 that DO use the extra Blu Ray space, dont get me wrong.

You seriously know almost nothing about this.


RE: Fix Arrived!
By MrPoletski on 11/16/2009 7:23:44 AM , Rating: 2
yeah, you both have some points, but are completely eclipsed by the fact the PC is and will always remain a better gaming platform ;)


RE: Fix Arrived!
By chick0n on 11/13/2009 2:00:58 PM , Rating: 1
rofl.

what is DVD's max transfer rate again ?

LMAO

and 720p/1080p. LOL

you dont even know wtf you're talking about.

Get your facts straight before you post again, moron.


Grammer Police
By decepticonomega1 on 11/13/2009 1:16:08 PM , Rating: 2
I hate to be the grammer police, but the article uses effect when I believe it should be affect. I haven't been in school for a while, so I could be wrong.




RE: Grammer Police
By Krotchrot on 11/13/2009 1:31:24 PM , Rating: 5
Haha. Do you mean "Grammar Police"?


RE: Grammer Police
By boden on 11/13/2009 9:47:39 PM , Rating: 2
now that's funny


RE: Grammer Police
By wetwareinterface on 11/14/2009 5:23:09 AM , Rating: 2
The lack of direct irony is his grammar was correct his spelling however is off. Indirectly, the irony still holds up for his trying to correct the author.


As a professional game developer...
By bobvodka on 11/13/2009 2:38:56 PM , Rating: 5
I'm so happy to see a news site assisting in the spreading of infomation which people can use to play free copies of games I've worked hard on.

I applude this stand they are taking against the honest game developers who, in general, are underpaid and over worked and mostly stay in the game sector because they happen to like producing games.

Well done DailyTech, well done indeed...




By SavagePotato on 11/13/2009 4:08:02 PM , Rating: 2
You are new to Jason Mick articles I presume.

If it doesn't generate 600 angry comments or get pulled from the site it's not a normal day in the life of Mick.


By rburnham on 11/14/2009 9:29:06 AM , Rating: 2
I got the impression that this is an irresponsible article.


By Tom mc3s on 11/17/2009 3:29:02 AM , Rating: 1
In no way does this article inform anyone on how to modify their console to play pirated games. It does detail a fix for those that have already modified their consoles and were subsequently banned. It also informs those of us who have done neither and may be interested in the ever growing saga of those that produce software / hardware and those that wish to deconstruct it, find out how it works and then modify to do things the original creators never intended or perhaps never even thought of.

Save your "woe is me" nonsense for the welfare office or find another line of work. I don't care at all if the profession you like to do doesn't pay the amount of money you think is acceptable. Welcome to the real world.

The poor game designers that had at least an inkling of how much their job payed before they chose that career path. The poor game designers that can't feed their children because people don't give them enough money for the media they create (surely the only conceivable reason for this is those goddamned pirates).

Oh, but he likes producing games. Everyone get out your checkbooks.


let it go...or end up wasting more money
By xioxio on 11/13/2009 1:23:13 PM , Rating: 2
Why go through trouble in buying a good xbox to try to unbanned the currently banned xbox and could end up banning the good xbox? If they want to keep playing xbox, buy a new one and just keep it.

I'm not exactly sure how they're going to get it unbanned. I'm sure MS have a list of the serial number/ID of the xbox they banned. Unless the process the modders are doing is changing the serial number/ID, then I don't think there's a way to unban it even if they change the firmware, or whatever they're trying to do.




By Master Kenobi (blog) on 11/13/2009 1:38:26 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
I'm not exactly sure how they're going to get it unbanned.

While the preliminary fix is still not out yet, what information has been posted points to the eventual fix being a form of duplication. They want to pull all of the hardware ID's from a working legit Xbox, and overwrite/spoof the ones on the banned one. This allows the banned one to masquerade as a legit console. The problem is that if either of these consoles were ever to get banned, both are toast.


RE: let it go...or end up wasting more money
By xioxio on 11/13/2009 3:03:00 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The problem is that if either of these consoles were ever to get banned, both are toast


Yep, if they do duplicate the serial/ID of the legit xbox then sell or return it to the friend they borrowed it from, I'm sure MS will find it easy to detect it if more than one of the same serial/ID are online at the same time or are online at different time but in different location w/ great distance between those locations within a short period of time. So they'll most likely to get both banned lol.


By Lerianis on 11/16/2009 11:49:47 AM , Rating: 3
Ah, but if they do that and the person in question says "Someone stole the ID on my console!"..... Microsoft is in for a peckload of hurt there, whether or not the person is telling the truth or not, because it is then Microsoft responsibility to prove that they are not telling the truth, which would be hard to do!

Even in civil court, the presumption is that the person is telling the truth, until proven otherwise. Sure, the legal standard is a 'preponderance of the evidence', but in this case, unless they go out and raid the location that the other console is transmitting from (a waste of time and energy) the preponderance of evidence would be on the side of the person filing the lawsuit against Microsoft.


We are only talking about $299
By Lord 666 on 11/13/09, Rating: 0
RE: We are only talking about $299
By AlexTRoopeR on 11/13/2009 12:58:55 PM , Rating: 1
Cops kicking and arresting... Wow! Do you work at Microsoft? Because as far as I know, modding is not ilegal. Nor will it be as long as people like you don't get a word in it!


RE: We are only talking about $299
By Lord 666 on 11/13/2009 1:29:57 PM , Rating: 1
Let's be honest, modding is illegal. It violates the DMCA; just ask the guy facing 10 years in California for modding Xbox consoles.

http://scitech.blogs.cnn.com/2009/08/05/student-ar...

No, I do not work for Microsoft directly or indirectly.


RE: We are only talking about $299
By wempa on 11/13/2009 4:38:38 PM , Rating: 2
You are wrong. Modding is NOT illegal. Circumventing copy protection is illegal and violates the DMCA. Installing a mod chip by itself doesn't provide a way to circumvent the copy protection. For the original Xbox, users had to go find the necessary software on the internet and flash their mod chips to allow piracy. The people who got busted (like the one from the article) were the ones that sold the mod chips with the illegal software already installed.


I don't think this is a legit fix
By donjuancarlos on 11/13/2009 1:51:11 PM , Rating: 2
For sure, I believe you can get the dead box working again, but if Microsoft's Serial# Verifier doesn't check to see if a duplicate serial number exists, it's only a couple lines of code to add a checker. Then you have 2 dead boxes.




By Lerianis on 11/16/2009 11:53:31 AM , Rating: 2
Ah, but the problem then becomes what if the person 'scammed' a serial number off an XBox at a store or a BUNCH of serial numbers off an XBox at a store..... then, Microsoft would be pushing their luck EVEN MORE by maybe banning the console of someone who never modified their console, never even HEARD of modifying consoles, and just bought a console for their family.

People have to think about things like that, which a lot of the posters on here don't think about that.


Whoa! Is this true?
By Old Man Dotes on 11/13/2009 5:17:50 PM , Rating: 2
"corrupts saves/Gamertags used on the machine"

Assuming this is true, and that the Xbox in question is behind a firewall device or has a user password installed, Microsoft is engaged in "unauthorized access to a protected computer" which is a violation of Federal law.

Banning a MAC Address is perfectly fine, it's on their end; modifying anything that's on the Xbox is highly illegal, no matter what the EULA may say (it's a "shrink-wrap EULA" which has already been shown in court to be unenforceable) and I certainly hope some modder happens to have (or be) a sharp lawyer.




RE: Whoa! Is this true?
By Lerianis on 11/14/2009 8:02:21 PM , Rating: 2
Plus, there is the fact that there is an issue about that the law gives people the option of making legal backups and PLAYING THOSE BACKUPS... it says absolutely nothing about having to 'modify' consoles making that un-permissible under the law.

Sure, mention the DMCA... but the fact is that law has never been challenged in court to see if those 'anti-circumvention' provisions are actually LEGAL, as far as I know.


By bill3 on 11/14/2009 5:07:27 AM , Rating: 3
This is just ridiculous.

And dont even dredge out the dishonest "homebrew" excuse Mick, homebrew on 360 is a joke.

I just dont understand why Dailytech continues to employ this guy.




It would also appear
By bill3 on 11/14/2009 5:11:30 AM , Rating: 1
That to know this much about the process Mick himself is almost certainly a pirate on 360...

How do you feel stealing money from software developers, Mick?

Anyways, I frequent some gaming forums, and from what I gather the pirating process on 360 is becoming more and more difficult, as the extremely complex "fix" Mick posted points out, so stick that in your craw Mick. You lose.




RE: It would also appear
By Tom mc3s on 11/17/2009 3:50:25 AM , Rating: 2
Well hold on now. If he were stealing money from a software developer he would then be a pick pocket or burglar, not a software pirate.

Furthermore you can still pirate every game under the sun and play them on a modded 360. You just can't connect to XBL.

I'd also like to add that I have read what Mick wrote (copied) and I now know how the process of returning functionality to a banned 360 works. It has nothing to do with the original modification that allows the user to play pirated games nor does that knowledge now make me a pirate.


bollox
By rodger on 11/14/09, Rating: 0
RE: bollox
By lewislink on 11/14/2009 1:28:02 PM , Rating: 3
Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.


Heh..
By Morisato on 11/14/2009 11:17:10 PM , Rating: 2
The never ending debate of whose right and whose wrong. Frankly those that supposedly DO backup there discs for whatever reason shouldn't worry if they are banned from XBL. Not hard to use original disc to game online if need be. All in all the whole debate rounds to one simple answer. If you buy a product and break the ToU, then be prepared to face the consequences. Everyone who mod there 360's have been warned even on the mod guides etc. that you are taking a risk and doing so will probably get you banned. Those banned should stop complaining and move on. M$ hasn't fully stopped them anyway from purchasing another or doing other methods of replacement. I think they left that window open deliberately thinking they could reimburse themselves from lost sales due to the pirates themselves. In any case they should know and learn that people are not taking the steps besides modding = legit to pirating = legal to now fraud = illegal. In turn you can say M$ is turning people into thieves. Can't blame them though since there are many poor people out there and those with wealth pirate as well so they can buy more fancy crap for themselves. Anyway all in all a workaround is in place so those who haven't been banned yet will have a chance safety once more and those who have been, well here's your chance of redemption perhaps.




RE: Heh..
By Lerianis on 11/16/2009 11:37:53 AM , Rating: 1
No, it doesn't come around to that, not when the ToU in itself might be in violation of other parts of law, such as the laws that give you the option of making backup copies of discs and HAVING THE ABILITY TO PLAY THOSE THINGS.

If Microsoft is keeping you from exercising a LEGAL RIGHT by their ToU.... well, guess what takes precedence.... that's right, the legal right!

That is the problem that many people like myself have with these actions that these companies are taken when they try to say "YOU AGREED TO THE FARKING ToU! EAT IT, BITCH!"
I shoot right back "YOU ARE INFRINGING ON A FARKING LEGAL RIGHT! EAT THAT, BITCH!"


Permanent Ban
By DigitalFoobar on 11/13/2009 1:38:46 PM , Rating: 2
Workaround... yeah - its called buy another xbox.

To keep it simple, each xbox has a unique key/serial. When MS scans the machine and has identified that it is running a modded version, it logs the machines key/serial.

It doesnt matter even if you replace your drive and OS back to the original... your xbox is still banned. The only possible workaround that would be possible is to change the key on your xbox to reflect one that hasnt been banned.

This is very similar to the original xbox when everyone started being banned.. you could find eeprom keys etc all over the place for sale for this exact problem.

Just spend the $200 and get a new xbox.




Don't Buy Xbox.
By SpaceJumper on 11/13/2009 1:41:20 PM , Rating: 2
If all the gamers stop buying Xbox for a year or two. MS will relax the protections and have the new Xbox hackable again without any complaints from MS.
Money talks.




CPu key fix
By AliShawkat on 11/13/2009 1:57:15 PM , Rating: 2
it's been known for years but it's too complicated and not worth your time, might as well get another xbox.




Media Extender
By rendog131 on 11/13/2009 5:35:34 PM , Rating: 2
I am wondering about the media extender not working after getting banned. My friend just had his console banned but it still works perfectly as a media center extender.




Noz!
By rburnham on 11/14/2009 9:30:51 AM , Rating: 2
Dear lord, don't ban the kitty! Look at that cute face with the ears going back like that! Leave the poor kitty alone!




Microsoft Strategy Flawed
By rebootoz on 11/15/2009 1:39:48 AM , Rating: 2
The problem for Microsoft is the replacement console for a banned XBOX 360 will be in many cases a PS3.

One of the main selling points of the XBOX 360 was that it could be modded and play backup Discs and this was a partial offset that made rampant RROD more acceptable.

Since widespread XBOX Live Bans the deciding factors in the purchase of a new console are now weighing more heavily on the side of the PS3 taking into account Reliability, Pricing, DLNA compliance, Internet Browsing, Catchup TV, PlayTV, ease of HDD upgrade etc.




O RLY?
By SilentScreams on 11/17/2009 2:51:44 AM , Rating: 2
So, what you guys are saying is that creating a backup copy of things you've already bought is illegal? Does that seem slightly skewed to anyone else. And secondly, most optical discs (Blu-ray, dvd, cd and what have you) are actually damaged by simply playing them normally. I -bought- COD4, played it twice, and it was ruined. Did I mention the Xbox never moved? Ad the game was never taken out. Point is, things happen. Discs scratch, players (DVD, Xbox) are often the cause of the scratches. And yes, it's happened more than once.

Now then. ABout the bans. I know some piraters. Maybe they get caught, maybe they don't. Not my issue. My point is, most of them have never even signed up for XBL. So, the bans really make their points moot in and of itself. I don't know if this is in any way normal or not, but I've never allowed my xbox to touch the internet. They still pirate.. Unaffected by the bans and mostly unaware of them. Personally, my xbox has never been modded, nor would I even know where to begin.

The idea I think, is to play new games for free. Multi-player, probably not that big of a deal. Wouldn't be for me.




Jeez you guys
By justniz on 11/17/2009 11:58:28 AM , Rating: 2
You guys make me laugh.
Microsoft are very open that their whole business model is to shaft customers as hard and often as they can. Microsoft have made no secret about it. You've only got yourself to blame if you keep giving a known con-man your money.

Everyone whines like hell everytime Microsoft do something like this, yet I bet most of you will still go out and buy the next Xbox when it comes out. Or even sooner, you'll go and buy a replacement for the one you just bricked.

Learn a lesson and stop buying Microsoft products already!!!




Microsoft is the hacker...
By overlandpark4me on 11/18/2009 11:37:16 PM , Rating: 2
Microsoft downloads files to your box that "corrupts saves/Gamertags used on the machine"

I believe that phrase defines a virus. If I uploaded something to their servers that corrupted their entire database of gamer info, I would expect people at my front door with handcuffs.




Do the crime, do the time
By ZombieMutha on 12/2/2009 9:49:10 AM , Rating: 2
I was banned...on both my consoles. It sucks yea, but I knew the risk before I did it. I'm not gonna wine and cry about mean old big brother M$ and all that $hit. Let me give you my numbers before I rant. I've bought plenty from M$ over the years. Windows OS's 3.1, 95, 98, xp, vista. I also pirated a few (95 osr2, 98se, a few versions of xp vista 7. Im also planning on buying a legit ver. of 7 for the pretty box to go next to the rest. I've bought mice, keyboards, consoles, controllers, countless $hitty software all M$. I own over 50 legit 360 games and hundreds more from various consoles. Why Did I mod both my 360's? I endured 2 rrod and a dvd drive failure (which destroyed 3 original disks) on my first console which got me to buy a new one this past year. Did I mod to make legit backups? After all my unlucky @ss went through with this console, you bet I did. Did I play pirated games? @uck yea I did! Do I feel bad? Hell no. I still buy games, but now I wait until they drop in price and am not buying as many crap games that developers and publishers pump out before there ready. I still buy DlC and 2 subscriptions to XBL (or prescription in my sons case. Thank god for ps3 or the kid would be in rehab). So I still support the quality game makers when there is quality and the price is not out of line. Do I feel bad or hate M$ for banning me? No. Not a chance. Though I have spent a grip of money over the years and have endured bad os's, bad hardware etc. it's still not an excuse for piracy. I do think there should be a lifetime warranty on disks if you have the original receipt and I do think games cost way to much. But I don't feel bad for getting caught and having my XBL privileges revoked or some functionality removed (come on, hard drive installation, really? What did you whiners do before a year ago when they barely added it?). After all they didn't brick it. I still get to play all my offline games and backups and now I dont have to wait for street date to try out new games on my banned unit. It could have been worse. Am i gonna buy another 360? Yep. I still want XBL. I wont be modding that one...maybe. muuaaa, muuaaa.
In the end, you do the crime than do the time and shut up. Don't cry about it, man up. You and your conscience no what you did so own up to your responsibility and stop blaming M$. Blame yourself for taking the chance and losing.

A quick thought on placing the blame squarely at M$. In ban's past M$ seemed to ban for blatant violations like violating street date, hacking xbl and the like. They seemed happy to overlook the modders that "played by the rules" and collect the xbl subscription fee and DLC charges. What's different now? Hmmm...maybe pressure from the single biggest multi-player game developer ever. It seems to me Infinity Ward may have pressured M$ out of there comfy fee based relationship with modders to protect their Billion dollar online behemoth Modern Warfare 2. Infinity Ward has more to lose than M$ from piracy and they have the leverage to go exclusive to ps3 if m$ didn't put the hammer down on the mod scene. So before you get all ready to boycott m$ and the 360 maybe you should point the finger elsewhere. That's my 2 cents.




Took Too Long
By Yawgm0th on 11/13/2009 1:25:20 PM , Rating: 1
I expected a zero-day fix for the ban. It took over a day to be provided. Microsoft (Activision, really) lucked out here. Who expected the ban to work this long?

The modders really need to step it up here.




JTAG Hack
By Vagisil on 11/13/2009 2:05:58 PM , Rating: 1
The method in the update Jason posted isn't that useful either, I'm really starting to think he doesn't get this at all.
Lets see Jason can find out the conditions that make this a poor fix.




what a surprise.
By chromal on 11/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: what a surprise.
By ShiverSlick on 11/13/2009 12:38:59 PM , Rating: 1
I posit that your post is utter BS, so, it is now moot.


RE: what a surprise.
By Cheesew1z69 on 11/13/09, Rating: 0
RE: what a surprise.
By lewislink on 11/13/2009 2:12:14 PM , Rating: 3
You have it backwards. The modding idiots have been shoving their appendages up the rear of everyone for a long time. Now they are whining and moaning that MS isn't using any KY jelly while humping their sorry asses.


RE: what a surprise.
By chick0n on 11/13/2009 2:14:36 PM , Rating: 2
how does banning people mod the shit outa their console just to free leech a wrong thing to do ?

I agreed that most of the 360's stuff are way overpriced. but hey, if you dont like it, dont buy it.

You got it and mod it? accept the consequences


RE: what a surprise.
By Lerianis on 11/14/2009 7:50:06 PM , Rating: 2
You are automatically assuming that the people who have modified their consoles have not bought the legal copy of the game in question.

I know 4 people, friends of mine, who by the legal versions of the games and then BURN A 1:1 COPY so that their kids can play these games using XBox Live on a modified console.

Lest you forget, you DO have a right to back up AND PLAY backed up versions of games as long as you have bought the LEGAL VERSION FIRST... something that Microsoft has forgotten and which they are going to get slammed over as soon as this goes to court in the inevitable class action lawsuit.


RE: what a surprise.
By lewislink on 11/14/2009 8:54:53 PM , Rating: 1
Then you know, and are included with, 4 criminals.


RE: what a surprise.
By Lerianis on 11/16/2009 11:46:23 AM , Rating: 2
No, I am not, because their lawyers have raised aspersions on some of those things. Not to mention that those 'laws' are in violation of numerous other rights given under other laws, including the Constitution of the United States.... so no, my friends are not criminals, and as I said before of you: LAW AND ORDER NUTCASE!


RE: what a surprise.
By Tom mc3s on 11/17/2009 4:28:12 AM , Rating: 2
Hold on, is it really to that point if someone buys some hardware with specific software on it and that person decides to change either the hardware or software for any reason you are instantly a criminal? What the hell is that all about?

Let's not forget here that the law that's being discussed is the civil law of copyright infringement. Perhaps the mods make piracy possible on these consoles but the modification in and of itself is NOT PIRACY.

Having read through all the comments on this article so far it amazes me the amount of people that believe with all their being that changing something on a console you own is the law that's possibly being broken.

Now I'm not defending piracy but this is getting ridiculously out of hand. If I buy ANY piece of hardware and want to make changes to the goddamn thing that I bought then its my business and no one else's. I'm not saying that MS didn't have the right to ban some consoles from XBL, that I agree is their right (after all we are talking about a service here not an actual physical good). I'll be damned though if a bunch of white knights think I shouldn't be able to do with my possessions as I please.

If you download a copy of a game you do not own or make a copy of a borrowed / rented game then you have broken a civil copyright law. If you go on to sell those copies you have broken a criminal copyright law. In no way does making changes to your console make that act any more or less illegal.

If I can defecate on the console or set it on fire and still be within my rights as the possessor of that console then I sure as hell should be able to paint the damn thing, run any sort of non-copyright infringing software on it or drastically modify the hardware in any way I choose. If MS decides I can't use their XBL service because of that, so be it. If you feel the need to get on your soapbox and call me a criminal then you can go f@%# yourself.


No honor among thieves
By Freezebyte on 11/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: No honor among thieves
By vhx on 11/13/2009 12:35:12 PM , Rating: 5
Because modding an Xbox automatically makes you a thief, a scoundrel, and a wife beater.


RE: No honor among thieves
By PrezWeezy on 11/13/2009 1:24:01 PM , Rating: 1
Well...when you do it to play hacked/cracked/downloaded video games...yeah it kinda does make you a theif.


RE: No honor among thieves
By callmeroy on 11/13/2009 1:34:24 PM , Rating: 1
Why else do you modify your system? Does it make the authentic and legally purchased games play better?


RE: No honor among thieves
By Harinezumi on 11/13/2009 3:14:48 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, actually.

An undub patch can go a long way towards making a bad localization playable and enjoyable by replacing particularly terrible English voice work with the Japanese original, restoring censored scenes, and even fixing bugs introduced in the localization process.

Plus, there's also the fact that my unmodded US consoles tend to refuse to play my legally purchased import games.


RE: No honor among thieves
By Icehearted on 11/14/2009 12:57:52 PM , Rating: 2
My unmodded US console refuses to play US games, for crying out loud!

As far as this being a protection against cheaters, I don't really see them as being any more of a nuisance than the racists and the griefers MS actually condones on their network. So frankly, I'm neither pro or against this move.

Thanks to MS's weak policy enforcement online, practically all I do is play offline, so I really don't see what most modders should have to worry about as long as their gaming offline.

of course, they could have saved themselves some hassle if they'd just subscribe to gamefly.


RE: No honor among thieves
By boden on 11/13/2009 9:43:20 PM , Rating: 2
If I buy a 60$ game for my kids, I'm burning a copy for them to use and putting the original away so that when they mess up the copy I can just burn another. You have the right to make backup's for your media be they dvd's cd's or games.


RE: No honor among thieves
By Devo2007 on 11/14/09, Rating: -1
RE: No honor among thieves
By mindless1 on 11/14/2009 11:43:43 AM , Rating: 2
You simply can't break the protection, you could instead duplicate while retaining it.


RE: No honor among thieves
By lewislink on 11/14/09, Rating: -1
RE: No honor among thieves
By mindless1 on 11/14/2009 11:50:07 AM , Rating: 2
You obviously haven't a clue. You can't effectively train a small child to understand the frailty of all objects around them, nor have the right to go very far "policing" their friends.

How is the proposed backup "making everyone else responsible"? Responsible for WHAT?

Posters named Lewislinks should be responsible with their posts and we shouldn't let them use the internet if they aren't. See how it works? Not reasonable is it... It's a video game disc not the button on a nuclear missile launcher.


RE: No honor among thieves
By lewislink on 11/14/2009 1:14:50 PM , Rating: 1
Yeah, and a crook is always innocent and wants to justify their crooked behavior, much like what you are attempting to do.


RE: No honor among thieves
By thelostjs on 11/14/2009 1:36:33 PM , Rating: 2
yeah and a tattle-tail never fails to aggravate almost everyone


RE: No honor among thieves
By lewislink on 11/14/2009 1:38:31 PM , Rating: 1
Mission accomplished, then


RE: No honor among thieves
By thelostjs on 11/14/2009 1:43:27 PM , Rating: 2
i think the problem here is that you dont even own a 360. you know the console you can just nudge and the 360 will automatically engrave your $60 disc with a perfect circle


RE: No honor among thieves
By lewislink on 11/14/2009 1:50:19 PM , Rating: 1
Then you don't nudge it, now, huh? If you buy something faulty, tell the company of the product you bought and let them decide what to do. Microsoft is a great company for CS. Unless...hmmm...wait...are you trying to rationalize a reason to break the law? Especially when there is no reason?


RE: No honor among thieves
By thelostjs on 11/14/2009 2:19:37 PM , Rating: 2
what if youre perfectly careful for a year or two (like microsoft expects) and then one day by chance you bump your 'box. you call ms hoping they will take you into their arms and tell you everything will be ok. you always followed the rules and you bought every little accessory they made. you even pray to your god the riaa at night.
however, ms tells you its your problem now go play pc games like a good boy!


RE: No honor among thieves
By lewislink on 11/14/2009 2:26:37 PM , Rating: 2
There's a diplomatic solution to that, now, isn't there? The solution isn't to break the law, though.


RE: No honor among thieves
By thelostjs on 11/14/2009 6:26:38 PM , Rating: 2
choosing to game on a pc is not illegal in my country.
yew ain't from 'round here are ye boy?


RE: No honor among thieves
By Lerianis on 11/14/2009 8:18:44 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, lewislink, there is a name for people like you: LAW AND ORDER NUTCASE, who think that 'teh law' is always right.

Well guess what, idiot.... it ain't, never will be, and most of them isn't.


RE: No honor among thieves
By lewislink on 11/14/2009 8:43:52 PM , Rating: 2
Ah...that's just an excuse for morons like you to justify continuing to break the law. Grow a brain cell and see if the world isn't a bit different than what you puny brain can comprehend.

Idiot


RE: No honor among thieves
By mindless1 on 11/15/2009 12:31:09 PM , Rating: 2
I would argue that once I have paid for a license to use software, I am entitled to use it, that if they claim media itself isn't the license, my license to use it does not go away simply because the media is damaged.

So we are in a spot where the original EULA and insistence that we aren't allowed to do something is already skirting the law, but let them do what they want with their product and watch sales drop, I for one am not willing to buy licenses for things where I cannot have a backup of them.


RE: No honor among thieves
By thelostjs on 11/14/2009 1:34:08 PM , Rating: 2
question authority, i think any responsible parent would keep there children far away from any console. do the right thing and give your child a hand-me-down pc and a drive full of unistalled abandonware for christmas. youll be doing them a favor.


RE: No honor among thieves
By lewislink on 11/14/2009 1:35:30 PM , Rating: 2
Better yet, teach and train them the value of everything.


RE: No honor among thieves
By thelostjs on 11/14/2009 1:39:39 PM , Rating: 2
whats the value of an xbox360? (unmodded)


RE: No honor among thieves
By lewislink on 11/14/2009 1:41:22 PM , Rating: 1
The value is: If they abuse it, they lose it.


RE: No honor among thieves
By thelostjs on 11/14/2009 1:45:19 PM , Rating: 2
value is something expressed with a dollar sign
virtue is what you mean


RE: No honor among thieves
By lewislink on 11/14/2009 1:56:47 PM , Rating: 2
Not at all. The child will determine the actual value of the possession. When they lose it they will be eventually thinking they should have listened to parent and taken better care of it.


RE: No honor among thieves
By thelostjs on 11/14/2009 2:35:49 PM , Rating: 2
my children wont have to go through such unnecessary punishments. the optical disc is done. in my household at least


RE: No honor among thieves
By lewislink on 11/14/2009 2:55:05 PM , Rating: 2
Make sure to put aside enough funds for their bail.


RE: No honor among thieves
By thelostjs on 11/14/2009 6:15:43 PM , Rating: 2
when did i mention my children breaking the law? lol, i hope you r a police officer. if not your blood pressure must be through the roof. be sure to put aside enough funds for your drugs. yooorkillinus!


RE: No honor among thieves
By Lerianis on 11/14/2009 8:26:54 PM , Rating: 2
No, they won't, because things can get damaged even when children take the absolute best care of something that they can.

You are living, Lewslink, in a perfect world where nothing bad ever happens..... I am calling you out: either you are a paid Microsoft poster or a Law and Order NUTCASE, as I call them and my friends and family call them.

You are either paid by Microsoft or are one of those IDIOTIC PEOPLE who think that 'law is always right'.... and would support the laws that made having sex outside of marriage punishable by death over in Saudi Arabia if you lived over there because 'they are teh law!'


RE: No honor among thieves
By lewislink on 11/14/2009 8:52:36 PM , Rating: 1
Use your friggin brain cell. I'm talking about abuse, you idiot. A responsible parent would know the difference. You don't punish a child for accidents. But you damn sure don't teach them to break the phucking law when they have an accident, like you are trying to justify doing. I, and responsible psrents, have more love for our children than to raise them to be criminals. We responsible parents raise our children to think and find the proper solution to life's dilemmas rather than lead them by example into crime and bad behavior.

Someone really should have castrated your sorry ass prior to you copulating kids.


RE: No honor among thieves
By Lerianis on 11/16/2009 11:43:48 AM , Rating: 2
And you are automatically assuming, Lewislink, that 'damage to a DVD' would automatically be abuse of that thing.

THAT is the problem I have with your postings, you are automatically going from disc damaged to = disc abused by someone.
I've seen kids who have taken very good care of things, and over time, by NORMAL WEAR AND TEAR, the things stop working. How do their parents take care of that? If the things are CD's, simply by copying the ORIGINAL CD and giving them a BACKUP COPY to listen to, so that they are not out their original purchase if the disc gets damaged in normal usage by normal wear and tear.

It's time for you to realize that most kids take very good care of things, except things that are MEANT TO BE PLAYED ROUGH WITH.
I did that when I was a child, my friends did that, my cousins did that.... need I keep going on? The whole bullcrap about the 'abusive child who breaks stuff on purpose' is exactly that... bullcrap.


RE: No honor among thieves
By thelostjs on 11/14/2009 2:38:35 PM , Rating: 3
my values are backitup-abuseit-loseit-getitbackagain :-P.
Buy it, use it, break it, fix it,
Trash it, change it, mail - upgrade it,
Charge it, pawn it, zoom it, press it,
Snap it, work it, quick - erase it,
Write it, cut it, paste it, save it,
Load it, check it, quick - rewrite it,
Plug it, play it, burn it, rip it,
Drag and drop it, zip - unzip it,
Lock it, fill it, call it, find it,
View it, code it, jam - unlock it,
Surf it, scroll it, pause it, click it,
Cross it, crack it, switch - update it,
Name it, rate it, tune it, print it,
Scan it, send it, fax - rename it,
Touch it, bring it, Pay it, watch it,
Turn it, leave it, start - format it.


RE: No honor among thieves
By Lerianis on 11/14/2009 8:22:37 PM , Rating: 1
Lewislink.... you can do that and things will STILL BLEEPING WELL GET BROKEN! That's the bottom line. You are living in a 'perfect world' where shit doesn't happen and where consoles, for no apparent reason, cannot scratch the disks.

I have disks that I have treated like they are made of SOLID PLATINUM... and they have still gotten so scratched that they are unreadable or about to become unreadable and I have to make another 1:1 copy of that disc to keep my data or game safe.

You are simply not using your goddamned BRAIN and thinking things through. As I said on one of my other posts, there is a name for people like you: Law and Order NUTCASE.

Or, paid Microsoft poster.... take your pick.


RE: No honor among thieves
By lewislink on 11/14/09, Rating: 0
RE: No honor among thieves
By Hiawa23 on 11/13/2009 12:42:36 PM , Rating: 2
So they are telling MS, we are working to stay ahead of you, take that, B. This sounds similiar to the problem Sony is having with hackers on the PSP. Why would you tell MS, we are working on a workaround given the massive amount of ressources they have at their disposal to stop you. I own all the current gen consoles & enjoy em, never been into modding, but this is interesting to see just how far many are going to battle MS. Very interesting indeed.


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