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Images courtesy Xbox-Scene

New HANA scaler shown directly in front of fan

Closeup of HANA scaler
Microsoft's "Zephyr" leaked to the press complete with HDMI, 120GB hard drive and 65nm processor

With Sony's PlayStation 3 knocking on the Xbox 360's door, it was only a matter of time before Microsoft made the move to make its year-old console even more competitive. DailyTech already reported that Microsoft has been able to successfully pare down its costs associated with producing the Xbox 360, so now is a more opportune time than ever to release an update.

According to Engadget, the Xbox 360 v2 (codenamed Zephyr) should result in a cooler console as the the 90nm IBM Xenon PowerPC processor was swapped out in favor of a 65nm revision. This has not been officially announced yet.

There is also a single HDMI port for full 1080p support -- no firmware trickery needed. Also on the way is a 120GB hard drive which would double the capacity of Sony's top-ranging PS3. There’s no word yet if Microsoft has seen fit to quiet the banshee-like DVD drive, but we can only hope that the answer is yes.

Engadget's "inside man" tells them that the new console will be available soon. We'll keep our ears and eyes open during Bill Gates' keynote on Sunday at CES to see if he has anything to say about the console.

Updated 1/6/2007. Xbox-Scene has posted new images and a video of the new HDMI-equipped Xbox 360. The images include a clearer shot of the back of the console along with motherboard shots which show off a new HANA scaler chip.

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Bah!
By Doormat on 1/5/2007 10:09:33 AM , Rating: 3
I guess this means I wont be seeing an HDMI cable for my v1 360. =^(




RE: Bah!
By JDub02 on 1/5/2007 10:23:46 AM , Rating: 3
Wonder when this is coming out. I just bought a 360 .. maybe I should take it back and wait for the new one.


RE: Bah!
By psychobriggsy on 1/5/2007 10:29:32 AM , Rating: 4
I read somewhere else that the Xenon 65nm shrink was delayed. If true, I wouldn't expect an XBox360 with 65nm chips for several months, possibly only in time for the end of the year. However the HDMI function could be added earlier, and I see no reason for Microsoft to hold back on offering larger hard drives due to their HD video service.


RE: Bah!
By UNCjigga on 1/5/07, Rating: -1
RE: Bah!
By MooseMuffin on 1/5/2007 11:10:49 AM , Rating: 3
I strongly doubt that is true.


RE: Bah!
By therealnickdanger on 1/5/2007 11:15:06 AM , Rating: 1
Did you just make that up in your head? The 65nm chips won't "overclock". The current 90nm Xbox360 does 1080p, stop with your blabbering. Microsoft avoided including HDMI in the intial batch of Xbox360s due to licensing costs and since no one really had HDMI-enabled TVs. Now that sales of HDMI devices are on the rise and the cost to build the console has fallen, it's a no-brainer to include the connection.

However, seeing the native port on the box does dishearten me, since I was hoping for a HDMI adapter cable. I'll wait for more info before I do anything, but I might just be selling my Xbox360 soon if no HDMI option is made available to my current Xbox360.


RE: Bah!
By theflux on 1/5/2007 12:20:39 PM , Rating: 4
You get on that guy for "making something up in his head" and then you go and do it yourself.

Microsoft did not include an HDMI port not because of licensing money, but because they can't. The hardware scaler chip they use is analog only. HDMI is a digital standard. There has to be an internal rework in order for them to support HDMI. In short, there will never be an HDMI option for your current 360; you will sell it.


RE: Bah!
By therealnickdanger on 1/5/2007 12:55:55 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Microsoft did not include an HDMI port not because of licensing money, but because they can't. The hardware scaler chip they use is analog only.

First off, nothing I said was incorrect. The analog scaler is irrelevant since it will still be present in the 360v2 as well and has no bearing on the HDMI interface.

Second, the only difference here is the addition of a HDMI controller and port. In order to use a HDMI controller (or standard), Microsoft must pay a fee. For a project already bleeding money, including an option few to none could utilize was not worth it. HDMI controllers were readily available before the launch of the Xbox360 - the decision was completely economic.


RE: Bah!
By UNCjigga on 1/5/07, Rating: 0
RE: Bah!
By Woodchuck2000 on 1/6/2007 12:24:08 PM , Rating: 3
Sorry, you're still talking bollocks.

For a start, Speedstep is Intel, Powernow is AMD, Xenon made by neither.

Secondly, there would never be any need for the chip to run above spec and the CPU and indeed GPU will be fixed in terms of function and clockspeed for the whole of the console's lifespan. The Zephyr revision will never need to run any faster than the original since both will run the same software identically.


RE: Bah!
By abhaxus on 1/7/2007 5:27:59 PM , Rating: 2
While I agree that the idea of the 360 overclocking itself to support 1080p is ludicrous, I believe the poster was referring to Speedstep/PowerNow as an example of what the 360's chip would be doing. Same way many of would use kleenex instead of facial tissue.


RE: Bah!
By otispunkmeyer on 1/8/2007 5:19:52 AM , Rating: 2
theres no way the clocks would change for games. console games are desgined to work at a specific clock frequency (unlike PC's where it can vary wildly) so if you say doubled the cpu speed, then everything in game would happen 2 times as fast.

it would be like playing in fast forward.

least thats how the old xbox was, i remember reading about a modded one that had a turbo switch to overclock the cpu, but you couldnt use it because all your games went double time too lol!


RE: Bah!
By bplewis24 on 1/5/2007 11:46:08 AM , Rating: 1
Why would they overclock the processer when one of the main benefits for shrinking the process was heat dissipation issues?

Anyhow, this news sort of disheartens me as a guy who was an early adopter of this generation's consoles. I will probably never do so again.

Brandon


RE: Bah!
By masher2 (blog) on 1/5/2007 12:35:06 PM , Rating: 2
Let's see...an issue that affects the entire user base, versus an issue which affects only part of the user base. Which one is more significant?

You're right, that's a tough one....


RE: Bah!
By glennpratt on 1/5/2007 1:35:52 PM , Rating: 3
I see that Microsoft has had quite a few problems with the 360, but I believe heat dissipation was really blown out of proportion, since it was the only thing most people understand. My console and all the others I've seen run fairly cool (mine was made prior to launch).

Cold solder joints or other random hardware failures and flaky software seems to be the most common issue.


RE: Bah!
By sanctus on 1/5/2007 11:59:59 AM , Rating: 3
Hahahahahahahahah! Oh man! Thanks for the laugh! Overclocking the xbox cpu for 1080P! Damn! That is the funniest thing I have heard yet in 2007! Good one. More jokes please. I need the laughs.


RE: Bah!
By Rage187 on 1/5/2007 12:14:05 PM , Rating: 3
did it hurt pulling that out of your arse?



RE: Bah!
By ttnuagadam on 1/5/2007 1:07:54 PM , Rating: 3
ooh so apparently the Xenon is responsible for the 360's fill rate eh?


RE: Bah!
By Tsuwamono on 1/6/2007 10:02:13 AM , Rating: 3
To be fair to him the CPUs alone had a 3% fail rate after installation. that alone is alittle high even for Cell processors. There problem at hand here isnt the hardware its Microsofts Quality Assurance program. The man in charge is obviously being ripped a new one on a daily basis.


RE: Bah!
By ToeCutter on 1/8/2007 10:27:16 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I read somewhere else that the Xenon 65nm shrink was delayed. If true, I wouldn't .....


Posts like this perfectly demonstrate how the DT comments/forum/whatever has become a parody of tech news.

Trying to participate in meaning dialogue here has become the equivalent to conversing with a restroom graffiti artist between pitstops (only less entertaining)....


RE: Bah!
By S3anister on 1/5/2007 2:47:57 PM , Rating: 2
Too late for me to do that, eh. I got my 360 on day one.

NOW it would be COOL to have a HDMI to DVI cable for my monitor for when i take it places, but the VGA one works fine I guess...


RE: Bah!
By obeseotron on 1/5/2007 1:57:22 PM , Rating: 2
If Microsoft could make one, they'd be happy to and then charge $40 for it and make a tidy profit. There are no crypto keys in the original Xbox360 that you and I own, which means no hdcp, and thus no hdmi for us ever. Same way 1st gen PS3's will never be able to scale games to any resolution. The hardware companies cut corners on their first run hardware because they already take big losses.


RE: Bah!
By darith27 on 1/5/2007 2:52:57 PM , Rating: 2
HELL YEAH I KNEW IT!!! WOOHOOO!!! I'm so glad I waited to buy one, but, assuming it will come with all the new upgraded harware, how much will it be with the new processor replacement, larger HD space, and hdmi port?


RE: Bah!
By dubldwn on 1/5/2007 4:57:00 PM , Rating: 2
ok...get ready for this...it will be...EXACTLY THE SAME PRICE!!!


RE: Bah!
By Locutus465 on 1/5/2007 10:35:11 PM , Rating: 2
But hopefully the v1's will go down in price... say about to the range where I could afford one!


RE: Bah!
By kilkennycat on 1/6/2007 1:44:27 PM , Rating: 2
Keep your hand on your wallet. Wait for the announcement for the Xbox360 version (Xbox360-HD?) with the INTEGRATED HD-DVD drive for both HD-DVDs and hd-capacity games... fully backward-compatible with existing Xbox360 software of course. Should be announced by Christmas this year (2007), as the supply-situation on blue-lasers is significantly easing. After all, if Microsoft is adding full 1080p capability then why not take the next step and poke both fingers in Sony's eyes? With the 1-year full warranty and full integrated HD capability at a price likely to significantly undercut Sony, why should anybody bother buying a PS3 ? With the arrival of the Xbox360 v2, the non-integrated HD-drive is now the only real disadvantage left on the Xbox360 side in the console battle between M$$ and Sony.


RE: Bah!
By Bladen on 1/7/2007 3:53:46 AM , Rating: 2
Well another advantage may, just may, be free online play.

But hey, that's just my opinion.

Don't call me a Sony lover, as quite frankly I think they have started digging their own grave with the PS3. If they can survive then maybe next time they won't be so arrogant and dicky. To survive though, I believe that they need to have their range of games greater than the PS2, and increase the amount of party and casual games considerably.


RE: Bah!
By willow01 on 1/8/2007 8:38:14 PM , Rating: 2
While they're at it they may as well poke us pre-existing customers in the eyes to. That is if they ever make it so that games use hd-dvd then I'll be selling/trading in for a ps3 (I'm not about to go switching dvd disks in and out, especially now I'm hooked on wireless).
Actually scratch that I'll throw the thing away so I won't be burdening anyone else with a crippled version. I'm not fussed about a new version with everything in the box, but games on hddvd (as unlikely as it is) not on.


RE: Bah!
By The Sword 88 on 1/5/2007 8:43:10 PM , Rating: 2
This sucks.

I want the v2 now. HDMI would be nice and so would the other upgrades.


HD-DVD built-in option?
By UNCjigga on 1/5/2007 10:58:10 AM , Rating: 3
Please for the love of God make this available with built-in HD-DVD support! I don't care if you call it "Xbox 360 Ultimate Edition" and charge $599.99 for it--people will still buy it and Sony will shart in their pants!!! :)




RE: HD-DVD built-in option?
By f1sh3r on 1/5/2007 11:04:15 AM , Rating: 2
ive been holding off on getting a 360 hoping that the hd-dvd would come standard. im willing to wait a few months. i can start saving my money now.


RE: HD-DVD built-in option?
By dice1111 on 1/5/2007 11:44:38 AM , Rating: 2
Your going to be waiting a long time. Microsoft isn't going to do it.


RE: HD-DVD built-in option?
By HaZaRd2K6 on 1/5/2007 1:11:48 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Your [sic] going to be waiting a long time. Microsoft isn't going to do it.


Got a source for that assumption? I'd like to see why they won't, it seems like a pretty reasonable thing to expect, to me.


RE: HD-DVD built-in option?
By Goty on 1/5/2007 1:43:24 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Got a source for that assumption?


I do:

http://arstechnica.com/articles/headstart.ars

Read through the article, tow reps from MS explicitly state that there will not be a version of the 360 with a built-in DVD drive, nor will they release a larger HDD. Kinda makes me think a lot of this is a hoax anyways.


RE: HD-DVD built-in option?
By Hare on 1/6/2007 4:24:18 PM , Rating: 3
You expect these people to publicly say that there will be a better version so don't go out and buy the current model? Same thing with the pricecuts. Of course they deny it because otherwise people would hold of their purchase and that's not good for the company.


RE: HD-DVD built-in option?
By Hemipower on 1/7/2007 1:07:27 AM , Rating: 2
Why would sony shart thier pants if M$$ releases a version with the HD-dvd drive for 600 dollars. They are the same price and M$$ is screwing everybody that bought an original xbox and hd-dvd drive. If they do release the version with the HD-DVD than you can pretty much bet that they won't have it work with games.

And about the new rev. with hdmi, I think its a good move but as far as saying the machine is upgrading with new tech, thats bs. HDMI was around before the release of the 360. Its not like a new format came out and now they are implementing it.


RE: HD-DVD built-in option?
By timmiser on 1/8/2007 8:44:05 PM , Rating: 2
By including an HD-DVD built in to the 360, it will raise the base cost at least $200 and possibly require a redesigned case. Don't just assume that they have a slim form factor HD-DVD drive standing by that will fit in the same old 360 slim DVD slot and if they do, I'll bet it will cost them more than $200.

Also, MS just released the HD-DVD add-on drive which in my opinion sends a message to us that this is the route you need to go if you want HD-DVD movie capability.


RE: HD-DVD built-in option?
By zombiexl on 1/10/2007 1:59:07 PM , Rating: 2
Umm.. Didn't toshiba release a notebook with an HD-DVD. Wouldn't that be a slim HD-DVD?

And it should be less than $200 beucase the $200 includes a remote and an HD-DVD + the external power supply, case and the Laptop to USB converter thingy.

MS has said they are not losing $$$ on the HD-DVD which means they probably are getting them for closer to $150 with all that crap i mentioned above. Removing the $20 or so for the current dvd, the external case and such should make it closer to $100 cost difference and since MS is now making $$$ on the console they could probably go back to losss mode for a short time and keep the price close to where its at (or maybe $499 with the HDMI and 120GB drive).


RE: HD-DVD built-in option?
By timmiser on 1/10/2007 2:45:52 PM , Rating: 2
Toshiba does have a HD-DVD notebook but I'm sure the slim drives are not being produced at anywhere near the quantity they would need for the Xbox. But slim drives are always more expensive than their 5 1/4" brethen, especially for new technology such as this. But the real reason is why would MS force you to pay this extra money for HD-DVD since a good percentage of users would never take advantage of it. The addon option they currently have works good, keeps the Xbox 360 price down, keeps the HD-DVD price option down (for current Xbox 360 owners) and would only be paid for by those who want it.

I'll bet that Sony is wishing right now they went this route. If so, they would have had their PS3 out a year ago and be at the same price point as the Xbox 360 and be able to release a blue ray addon drive and would probably have the lead in the 360/ps3 war. They are in trouble now because there is no option to get out of the expensive blue ray debacle they are in with the PS3.


RE: HD-DVD built-in option?
By MooseMuffin on 1/5/2007 11:14:30 AM , Rating: 2
No way. Unlike Sony who has a stake in Blu-ray, MS doesn't really benefit from HD-DVDs success. They benefit because it hurts sony, but they can hurt sony in other ways. The larger harddrive will allow MS to skip the whole next gen dvd battle all together and let them push their movie service instead.


RE: HD-DVD built-in option?
By timmiser on 1/8/2007 8:57:46 PM , Rating: 2
No, Microsoft in September 2005 chose to back HD-DVD along with Intel and a host of other electronic companies.

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2005/sep0...


RE: HD-DVD built-in option?
By thejez on 1/5/2007 11:30:01 AM , Rating: 3
bad idea!! that would only make the 360 more expensive and then it would sitting on the shelf like the ps3s are alreadying doing... why did every store i visited last night have ps3's just sitting there untouched with signs beggin people to buy them?? because people dont want to pay $600 for a game console...

keep the HDDVD as an add-on... its the best of both worlds...


RE: HD-DVD built-in option?
By Goty on 1/5/2007 1:45:39 PM , Rating: 1
There are no signs "begging" people to buy the PS3s. There are more PS3s because the holiday season is over and production is picking up at the same time.


RE: HD-DVD built-in option?
By Gatt on 1/5/2007 3:48:18 PM , Rating: 2
Actually, there are numerous reports across the net on a number of different forums of store drones trying desperately to get people to buy PS3's.

My favorite one was the BB store that announced they'd be handing out tickets to everyone in line when the PS3 shipment came in, to discover only one person in line waiting for it when they arrived.

It doesn't have anything to do with the holidays, or the number of units produced so far. They've only shipped 1,000,000 units total, far less than theoretical demand.

It's simply that no one wants to pay $600 for a console when the next ailse over has the 360 for 200 less and almost all of the games available for PS3.


RE: HD-DVD built-in option?
By Goty on 1/5/2007 4:24:39 PM , Rating: 1
Ok, if there are so many reports of this, link me to just one credible article.


RE: HD-DVD built-in option?
By Lakku on 1/5/2007 5:29:10 PM , Rating: 3
I can't speak for the nation, but here in Austin, TX, this theory is wrong, at least in my experience so far. I have been looking for a Wii since November, but I am not willing to wait for hours, so I haven't had any luck. Already, this proves a point: it's after the holidays and there are NO Wii's anywhere around here. Hell, even the DS Lite (black and pink versions) are sold out almost everywhere I go. It is after the holidays, and when a Wii shipment came on December 30th or something, every Walmart I visited, and Best Buy, had people in line for them. All in all, I cannot find Wii's because the demand for them is still crazy. With that said, every place I have gone has had a PS3 in stock. Target, Best Buy, Walmart, EB/Gamespots, Frys, ALL of them, when I visited, had at least one 20gig or 60gig PS3 in stock in the past two weeks. They are probably sold now, but the point is, through last night when I was looking for Wiis, MANY places had PS3s in stock. In fact, at Gamespot, a guy was returning a PS3 to buy back his traded in 360. I can't agree that demand has lowered, because even before Christmas around here, there were PS3s sitting around, albeit only one or two at a time. Like I said, I can't speak for the rest of the US, but around here, I have seen little demand for the PS3, and from people who I talked to while trying to get a Wii, they said parents just didn't want to spend 600 for a game console for their kids. Most employees have said the people buying the PS3s are local university students or young guys, who they guessed were from the local high tech companies with money to burn.


RE: HD-DVD built-in option?
By TejTrescent on 1/6/2007 9:00:36 AM , Rating: 2
Haha. You want a Wii in Austin? I camped launch at one of the Circuit City locations. From how it's been there supplywise, I'm glad I did. I think it's the only way TO get one.


Curses!
By JimFear on 1/5/2007 10:42:52 AM , Rating: 1
This will be interesting, a 3rd SKU for retailers and us early adopters have been shafted feature-wise, hell there may even be a 4th SKU without a hard drive. These features should have been implemented from the very start with the 90nm processor rather than doing a turnaround and releasing a 360 with more goodies.

How dare they compell me to buy another 360 just for the goodies! DAAAMN YOUUUU! :(




RE: Curses!
By dstroope on 1/5/2007 10:52:31 AM , Rating: 2
I'll first have to upgrade my tv to accept the dvi.

In reality most people don't have an HD set when they are running these.. So it should really only piss off the dailytech tools (myself included) and not many others.


RE: Curses!
By bplewis24 on 1/5/2007 12:02:52 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
In reality most people don't have an HD set when they are running these.. So it should really only piss off the dailytech tools (myself included) and not many others


So because it doesn't affect the majority of the consumers who own this product it isn't as significant? Interesting argument that I've heard somewhere else recently.

Brandon


RE: Curses!
By artemicion on 1/5/2007 11:18:18 AM , Rating: 4
It's really no different from re-releasing the thinner PS2 with the ethernet adapter, the thinner ps1, or even the top loading original NES - in fact, really, every console I know of has gone through a number of bios revisions. It's inevitable that newer and better versions will be released as time goes on. Complaining about it is like complaining that your computer hardware is outdated after a year or so.


RE: Curses!
By Pneumothorax on 1/5/2007 11:57:21 AM , Rating: 2
The funny thing with the slim PS2 was, the old was better in every aspect other than size. You could add an ethernet port and adapter which also allows an addition of a hard drive. Furthermore, all the versions of PS2 used the same cable/port for display output. OTOH, the V1 360's are out in the cold when it comes to HDMI as it seems it's not possible to integrate it with the standard 360 display port.


RE: Curses!
By therealnickdanger on 1/5/2007 12:19:52 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
OTOH, the V1 360's are out in the cold when it comes to HDMI as it seems it's not possible to integrate it with the standard 360 display port.

I am still hopeful that Microsoft comes through with a HDMI adapter for current users, but I'm not holding my breath.


RE: Curses!
By obeseotron on 1/5/2007 1:59:59 PM , Rating: 2
The Slim PS2 had a faster DVD drive, it was not inferior to the old PS2.


RE: Curses!
By Polynikes on 1/5/2007 1:42:53 PM , Rating: 2
Still, it's disappointing to buy a v1 PS2 at $300, just to see it re-released later in a smaller package with the ethernet adapter built-in for $250. :\


RE: Curses!
By daftrok on 1/5/2007 2:07:20 PM , Rating: 2
You DO realize that there was over a three year gap between the old PS2 and the new PS2, right?


RE: Curses!
By The Sword 88 on 1/5/2007 8:49:29 PM , Rating: 2
Which is more acceptable than a 1.5 year gap taht microsoft may be doing.

Plus the slim had no new features. Just better size and stuff and integrated ethernet but my old PS2 could do allthe same stuff as the slim one wheras me old 360 still cannot use HDMI.


RE: Curses!
By jtyson on 1/5/2007 4:09:28 PM , Rating: 1
What strikes me as most ironic is that Microsoft condemned Sony for including an HDMI out and 1080p support in the PS3 because (as they put it), "nobody cares about that stuff." Fast forward to January 2007, when all the Xbox fanboys are going apesh*t over the inclusion of an HDMI out on the Xbox 360. The other thing that strikes me as ironic is that, unlike the PS2 analogy given by artemicion, the 360 is going to look EXACTLY the same as (and possibly cost more than) the original Xbox 360. Sony waited 2+ years to re-release the PS2, so that people who had already bought the "chunky" version were ready to fork over more money for the slimmer version... Oh! That, and the hardware update alienates those of us who foolish enough to purchase a 360 within the first year and a half.

Prediction: The hardware change does not boost unit sales, goes generally unnoticed, except to those who were already considering purchasing an Xbox 360 anyway.

In theory, it's a good move on MS' part. In practice, most people will not care.


RE: Curses!
By masher2 (blog) on 1/5/2007 11:20:49 AM , Rating: 3
I never understand the stilted logic that, simply because a better product come downs the pipe later, that those who bought earlier are somehow "shafted". Technology improves over time...sometimes very quickly. Deal with it. It's a good thing. Its your choice to buy early. You may pay more and get less features...but you get the product earlier. Don't blame manufacturers for giving you the option.


RE: Curses!
By Frank M on 1/5/2007 11:26:25 AM , Rating: 3
I agree.

In fact, in putting out the XBox 360 at all, they shafted the owners of the original XBox. All of the features of the XBox 360 should have been included int he original XBox.

How dare they compell me to buy another XBox just for the goodies!


RE: Curses!
By jtyson on 1/5/07, Rating: 0
RE: Curses!
By TomZ on 1/5/2007 4:55:53 PM , Rating: 2
That's crazy. If you went out and bought a model year 2006 car, drove it for around a year, and then the manufacturer came out with a design refresh for model year 2007, would you feel "shafted" in that case? How is that any different?

You got what you expected and paid for with your original purchase. Of course the product will be improved as time goes on, but you had the advantage of using it for a year already.


RE: Curses!
By TheDoc9 on 1/6/2007 1:41:32 PM , Rating: 1
We're not talking about cars. And by that logic, they could add ANYTHING into it, as long as they called it a 360. And yes, people who got this thing on day one have the right to be pissed off, we're not talking about a sleeker design here. We're talking about fundamental changes to the hardware including a new scaler chip and DVI. Two HUGE things.

You know it's funny, your paid to be here aren't you. I bet you were one of the cheerleaders originally saying how 'we don't need DVI or the HD-DVD drive' ect. Now that the system is being changed and they released an HD drive and we have to pay more for them - and in the case of DVI buy the system again - you and your co-workers are comparing it to normal everyday computer upgrades and cars!


RE: Curses!
By TomZ on 1/6/2007 2:35:26 PM , Rating: 2
I don't see how this situation is any different than my car analogy - the product underwent an update. Why would anybody be upset about that?

What I'm really getting at is - why does anyone assume that, included in the price of the product, is a guarantee from the manufacturer that the product will stay the "latest and greatest" technology for a number of years? That doesn't happen anywhere else in computer or consumer electronics, or in any other market AFAIK. Actually, when you consider the pace of change in technology, even 1 year is pretty good. The last time I bought a new PC, I used all top-end components, which were nearly all eclipsed by newer releases within 3 months of my purchase. That didn't take away from the value of my purchase one bit.

And no, I am not paid to be here. I'm not sure how you arrived at that incorrect conclusion. I own an engineering company and spend a few spare moments here in between work.


Something missing in this announcement ?
By kilkennycat on 1/5/2007 11:04:27 AM , Rating: 2
The integrated HD-DVD drive for BOTH movies AND games.... ?

Very likely in a variant of the v2 Xbox360. That should really make the Xbox360 (v1) "early adopters" very angry. But an essential counterweight to the PS3. Such is life in "early-adopter" land.....




By sabrewulf on 1/5/2007 11:30:43 AM , Rating: 3
360 has been out for over a year now, I wouldn't really call that "early adopter" anymore. I'm loathe to even use that term for consoles in the first place. Back in the day there were no "versions." You just bought a Super Nintendo and played everything under the sun without concern for the next 5-6 years.


RE: Something missing in this announcement ?
By lwright84 on 1/5/2007 11:51:04 AM , Rating: 2
games will never be developed for the HD-DVD medium.


RE: Something missing in this announcement ?
By daftrok on 1/5/2007 2:19:06 PM , Rating: 2
How can you be so sure? Microsoft said that they weren't going to add HDMI and that is in the realm of possibility. Sony said that the lower-end PS3 would not have HDMI and now it does. Nintendo said that they would not support component and now they support 480p. Nothing is for certain at this point.


RE: Something missing in this announcement ?
By S3anister on 1/5/2007 2:45:22 PM , Rating: 2
oh come on!!! be realistic here.

Microsoft has sold millions of their ORIGINAL 360. so why would they make a HD-DVD game, therfore leaving out A WHOLE BUNCH of people across the world.

Really? why would they make their customers feels more left out than before?


By camix on 1/5/2007 3:29:33 PM , Rating: 2
They wouldn't because there's a USB HD-DVD player original Xbox 360 users could buy to play them. Original adopters would not get left out. Games aren't gettin any smaller and in order to compete with the newer BIGGER games, which the PS3 is future proofed for, an integrated HD-DVD player would be a great idea for the next version of the 360.


By Chillin1248 (blog) on 1/5/2007 6:18:37 PM , Rating: 4
I actually can see a game offered in both DVD9 and HD-DVD formats. A game that would take up more than two or three DVD9s (which one I cannot think of but assuming there is one) can also be put in a "Collectors Edition" on HD-DVD with some other collectible items (action figures and behind the scenes documentary) included.

But I think that this will have to be done by a publisher other than Microsoft since I believe they stated that they will never put a game out on HD-DVD.

But also the economics really don't work out for a HD-DVD game on the Xbox360, so it will mostly be a limited novel item if anything.

-------
Chillin


RE: Something missing in this announcement ?
By crystal clear on 1/6/2007 4:46:23 AM , Rating: 1
Hi there-this is for you (not related to this topic)-this is the only way I can be in touch with you.

*Bill Gates’ Keynote Address
Transcripts and view-on-demand portions of the keynote address will be posted to http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/events/ces/defa... beginning Monday morning.

*Coming soon: Microsoft Windows Home Server?

There's been radio chatter this week of a possible new addition to the Windows family: a "Home Server." If the chatter is right, Microsoft will unveil it at CES, which kicks off next week. "Home Server," according to my sources, is about centralized storage, home automation and security. More on that in a minute

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070105-8557...

Also-

http://giyus.org/


By crystal clear on 1/7/2007 5:19:33 AM , Rating: 2
This message was FOR Chillin ONLY & NOT FOR ANYBODY ELSE-
read post-it clearly implies that.
Only find it rated down-

-By crystal clear on 1/6/2007 4:46:23 AM , Rating: 1

This is just for the guy WHO ABUSES THE VOTING SYSTEM & or MISUSES IT.

*Ratings DONT bother me a bit,nor do I care about it.

*I dont make my comments for ratings,rather on what I think,know about the subject matter.In short my opinions.

*If you dont approve it -give a counter argument & NOT VOTE
IT DOWN.
ITS PLAIN COWARDLY-CREEPY-SLIMY of that person to hide behind the VOTING system.

*THIS EXAMPLE PROVES MY CASE.

*I waited for this opportunity to prove-how many of posters
making good/valid comments get voted down by a few who MISUSE the system,for CHEAP THRILLS.

*THIS is blatant ABUSE of the Voting/Rating system.

STOP THIS.


RE: Something missing in this announcement ?
By MattCoz on 1/5/2007 4:49:37 PM , Rating: 2
Nintendo never said they wouldn't support component, 480p was a feature of Wii from the beginning. They only said they wouldn't support HD.


By daftrok on 1/6/2007 2:35:05 AM , Rating: 2
You're right, I confused 480p with HDTV when it is in fact SDTV.


Early Adopters
By BPB on 1/5/2007 11:26:21 AM , Rating: 2
Why should early adopters be ticked? Odds are this will cost close to the PS3 if they put in everything folks here want. And the PS3 is not selling nearly as hot as expected. The GameStops near me tell me they take 2 or 3 days to leave the store. So in reality how many people would have opted for the new version if it costs $200 to $300 more than what they paid? If from day 1 you had three choices, I'm sure most still would have taken the $399 choice.

As for those wanting the HD-DVD built-in, I like the external one and think it's a steal. I can plug it into the 360 AND plug it into my PC. Can't do that with an internal. Though it is cheap enough where you could have both, I guess. 1080P would be nice, but how many people have a 1080P TV? Maybe a montior, but not a TV. By the time 1080P TV's in a decent size are affordable, the 360 will be cheaper, possibly much cheaper. Nope, I just can't see why people would complain about this. Early adopters have had over a year of great HD gaming, be happy!




RE: Early Adopters
By bplewis24 on 1/5/07, Rating: 0
RE: Early Adopters
By BPB on 1/5/2007 12:12:39 PM , Rating: 2
At the same point in time for the 360 is was leaving the stores as fast as it arrived. And certainly the Wii is doing that as well. Try getting a Wii without paying a premium. And they made many times more Wii's than PS3's. 12 months ago I could have said try getting a 360. It was quite a while before 360's didn't leave the store before they could be put on a shelf. The Gamestop employees near me tell me there's no excitement for the PS3, only the Wii. And in their opinion many PS3 buyers want it for the Blue-Ray DVD, not gaming.


RE: Early Adopters
By GreenEnvt on 1/5/2007 1:08:36 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed, Nintento has shipped MANY more Wii's then Sony has PS3's, and people are still lining up for Wii's in some areas, a month after release. It took me many, many trips to best buy and EB before I finally lucked out this week and got a Wii.

Every store I went to had PS3's sitting on the shelves.


RE: Early Adopters
By Milliamp on 1/6/2007 3:45:00 PM , Rating: 2
I was at Wal-Mart last night and I noticed that they had 6 PS3's sitting there on the shelf (located in western NY). I asked the store rep about it and he said they have had them in stock for quite a while now and people have not really been after them.

On the other hand, he said they have been selling out of Wiis as soon as the shipments come in.

So it would seem that the lacking PS3 sales are not entirely just becasue of lack of supply.

With a revision on the way, and costs that would allow MS to make a price reduction if they need to, it would seem that the 360 will be retaining their market share against the PS3 for a while longer.


RE: Early Adopters
By sanctus on 1/5/2007 12:38:28 PM , Rating: 2
I agree with you BDP. I cannot understand why people are getting so upset over some "announced" (I have yet to hear Microsoft officially announce anything)vaporware that nobody here has actually seen yet. I am very happy with my launch day 360 and I could give two &*%$# about an HDMI connection. I am a very happy "early adopter." By the way, where do you live that you see PS3s in stock. I don't want to buy one since there are no really good games for it yet, but I have never seen even one PS3 in any store since launch day. I set up a PS3 for my nephew and I was extremely unimpressed. The PS3 is even more underwhelming than the PS2 was at launch. Happy New Year and everybody just chill out about this presently unavailable hardware.


RE: Early Adopters
By BPB on 1/5/2007 1:55:54 PM , Rating: 2
I live between Boston and Providence. 2 weeks ago I was at the Franklin, MA, Gamestop. They told me it took 3 days to sell the last 3 PS3s they had and that nobody was clamoring for them. And this BEFORE Christmas. Then later in the week I was at the Woonsocket, RI, Gamestop. They had a 20GB model in stock that was generating low interest. They told me that like Franklin their PS3s where not screaming out the door. The Wii on the other hand, both stores told me I’d have a hard time getting one. So much so that I considered the deal at Gamestop’s website, but $680 is too much. I know of no store that will tell you in advance when Wii’s are arriving. Oh well, in time they too will be more available. There are several Wii games we’re looking forward to playing. We could get them for other platforms but hear the Wii is worth the wait.


RE: Early Adopters
By borowki on 1/5/2007 4:59:46 PM , Rating: 2
I think people are too hung up on aesthetics. To me the practical benefits of a set-up with two disc drives is obvious. It means you can watch a movie without having to remove the game disc. I think that's precisely the reason why people rarely use their consoles to watch movies in the last generation (at least in the US). Gamers finding that their games absent from their machine could lead to unhappy domestic relationships.


RE: Early Adopters
By Bryf50 on 1/5/2007 6:20:36 PM , Rating: 2
Im sorry but was that supposed to be funny?


Upgrade option to V2 should be offered.
By vdig on 1/5/07, Rating: 0
RE: Upgrade option to V2 should be offered.
By PLaYaHaTeD on 1/5/2007 11:15:56 AM , Rating: 5
You bought your xbox when these technologies weren't readily available. There was no way in hell they could have managed to include these features without delaying the console.

They offered a decent product at a decent price with reasonable technology at the time, and now they are going to update it to be more competitive. I have a hard time believing that you didn't see this as a potential outcome when you made your purchase. And if you didn't, well then maybe you should be angry at yourself. Don't blame your lack of insight on M$.


By vdig on 1/5/2007 11:35:00 AM , Rating: 2
I'm not necessarily upset at MS. I saw it coming. I CAN live without it. It would just be nice for MS to have such a program.

Besides, I myself have no real reason to explode with fury. There are NO monitors in my household with HDMI in. What I need now is an HD-TV or HD-Projector + screen. I can get 1080 i max from my cheap projector, and it has no HDMI in. Oh well.


By bplewis24 on 1/5/2007 12:00:26 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
You bought your xbox when these technologies weren't readily available


HDMI wasn't readily available in november 2005?

Brandon


RE: Upgrade option to V2 should be offered.
By froggystyle66 on 1/5/2007 12:01:17 PM , Rating: 1
What is agrivating is that for months now, microsoft has flat out lied about their intention to release an updated x360. Over and over they have said that the 360 out is it and thats that. I would venture to guess that a decent number of people bought the 360 on that understanding. I guess its ok for corporations to lie and mislead consumers, but what do I know.


By therealnickdanger on 1/5/2007 1:07:54 PM , Rating: 3
They never lied to you, they denied you the truth. There's a difference. Saying, "No, there will never be another version of the Xbox360." and "No, we have no plans to announce a new version at this time." are two very difference things.

If everyone who sold a product was expected and forced to put their entire strategy on display for the world to see, it would severely hamper sales of existing products, which would, in turn, possibly prohibit the production of said upgrades. If when they launched the Xbox360, they told you they would have a revision in less than two years that would have more bells and whistles, what would you do? Personally, I wouldn't wait, but many would.


By Frank M on 1/5/2007 4:33:07 PM , Rating: 2
What silly reasoning.

You knew what the product offered when you purchased it. You clearly considered it worth the price. What happens after that has no affect on the product you bought for the price you paid.


AV connector and HDMI?
By goz314 on 1/5/2007 11:40:41 AM , Rating: 2
It's interesting to note from the article image that this v2 xbox 360 will include both the standard proprietary AV connector and an HDMI connector. Wouldn't having a standard AV interface like HDMI sort of deal Microsoft out of their own proprietary cable business? It has been their policy in the past to force users to utilize xbox specific cabling in order to maximize revenues.

Perhaps there is a technical limitation that won't allow the HDMI signaling to route through the larger AV connector. Or, maybe the HDMI specification is so tightly controlled as to not allow non-standard I/O connectors. I don't know. Does anyone have any ideas on why they might be opting for this dual connector approach as opposed to just an updated AV cable with integrated HDMI connectivity?




RE: AV connector and HDMI?
By FITCamaro on 1/5/2007 12:52:27 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Or, maybe the HDMI specification is so tightly controlled as to not allow non-standard I/O connectors.


This would be my guess.


RE: AV connector and HDMI?
By daftrok on 1/5/2007 2:16:13 PM , Rating: 2
Hmmm...if HD-DVD video and audio can be streamed INTO the Xbox 360 via USB, is there a chance that HDMI can be sent OUT of the Xbox 360 via USB? I highly doubt that 480 Mbps is enough, but maybe just video stream and not audio?


RE: AV connector and HDMI?
By MattCoz on 1/5/2007 5:05:49 PM , Rating: 2
1080p/60fps/24bpp requires 3Gbps of bandwidth, so USB doesn't come close.


RE: AV connector and HDMI?
By Lakku on 1/5/2007 10:26:12 PM , Rating: 2
You are using uncompressed video for those numbers there, at least that is what I am guessing. Otherwise, you are looking at something that would be 180Gb a minute, or 10,800 per hour. Last I checked, HD-DVD nor Bluray drives could read their media at 3Gbps, so how could they play their content? No, most video playsback, for these formats, at about 15 to 30Mbps, plus UP to 5 to 10Mbps for the audio, at the most, as far as I know. Also, HD-DVDs and BR playback at about 36 to 40 Mbps at 1x.