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Print 182 comment(s) - last by Hydrofirex.. on Jan 11 at 5:12 PM


Images courtesy Xbox-Scene

New HANA scaler shown directly in front of fan

Closeup of HANA scaler
Microsoft's "Zephyr" leaked to the press complete with HDMI, 120GB hard drive and 65nm processor

With Sony's PlayStation 3 knocking on the Xbox 360's door, it was only a matter of time before Microsoft made the move to make its year-old console even more competitive. DailyTech already reported that Microsoft has been able to successfully pare down its costs associated with producing the Xbox 360, so now is a more opportune time than ever to release an update.

According to Engadget, the Xbox 360 v2 (codenamed Zephyr) should result in a cooler console as the the 90nm IBM Xenon PowerPC processor was swapped out in favor of a 65nm revision. This has not been officially announced yet.

There is also a single HDMI port for full 1080p support -- no firmware trickery needed. Also on the way is a 120GB hard drive which would double the capacity of Sony's top-ranging PS3. There’s no word yet if Microsoft has seen fit to quiet the banshee-like DVD drive, but we can only hope that the answer is yes.

Engadget's "inside man" tells them that the new console will be available soon. We'll keep our ears and eyes open during Bill Gates' keynote on Sunday at CES to see if he has anything to say about the console.

Updated 1/6/2007. Xbox-Scene has posted new images and a video of the new HDMI-equipped Xbox 360. The images include a clearer shot of the back of the console along with motherboard shots which show off a new HANA scaler chip.



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Bah!
By Doormat on 1/5/2007 10:09:33 AM , Rating: 3
I guess this means I wont be seeing an HDMI cable for my v1 360. =^(




RE: Bah!
By JDub02 on 1/5/2007 10:23:46 AM , Rating: 3
Wonder when this is coming out. I just bought a 360 .. maybe I should take it back and wait for the new one.


RE: Bah!
By psychobriggsy on 1/5/2007 10:29:32 AM , Rating: 4
I read somewhere else that the Xenon 65nm shrink was delayed. If true, I wouldn't expect an XBox360 with 65nm chips for several months, possibly only in time for the end of the year. However the HDMI function could be added earlier, and I see no reason for Microsoft to hold back on offering larger hard drives due to their HD video service.


RE: Bah!
By UNCjigga on 1/5/07, Rating: -1
RE: Bah!
By MooseMuffin on 1/5/2007 11:10:49 AM , Rating: 3
I strongly doubt that is true.


RE: Bah!
By therealnickdanger on 1/5/2007 11:15:06 AM , Rating: 1
Did you just make that up in your head? The 65nm chips won't "overclock". The current 90nm Xbox360 does 1080p, stop with your blabbering. Microsoft avoided including HDMI in the intial batch of Xbox360s due to licensing costs and since no one really had HDMI-enabled TVs. Now that sales of HDMI devices are on the rise and the cost to build the console has fallen, it's a no-brainer to include the connection.

However, seeing the native port on the box does dishearten me, since I was hoping for a HDMI adapter cable. I'll wait for more info before I do anything, but I might just be selling my Xbox360 soon if no HDMI option is made available to my current Xbox360.


RE: Bah!
By theflux on 1/5/2007 12:20:39 PM , Rating: 4
You get on that guy for "making something up in his head" and then you go and do it yourself.

Microsoft did not include an HDMI port not because of licensing money, but because they can't. The hardware scaler chip they use is analog only. HDMI is a digital standard. There has to be an internal rework in order for them to support HDMI. In short, there will never be an HDMI option for your current 360; you will sell it.


RE: Bah!
By therealnickdanger on 1/5/2007 12:55:55 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Microsoft did not include an HDMI port not because of licensing money, but because they can't. The hardware scaler chip they use is analog only.

First off, nothing I said was incorrect. The analog scaler is irrelevant since it will still be present in the 360v2 as well and has no bearing on the HDMI interface.

Second, the only difference here is the addition of a HDMI controller and port. In order to use a HDMI controller (or standard), Microsoft must pay a fee. For a project already bleeding money, including an option few to none could utilize was not worth it. HDMI controllers were readily available before the launch of the Xbox360 - the decision was completely economic.


RE: Bah!
By UNCjigga on 1/5/07, Rating: 0
RE: Bah!
By Woodchuck2000 on 1/6/2007 12:24:08 PM , Rating: 3
Sorry, you're still talking bollocks.

For a start, Speedstep is Intel, Powernow is AMD, Xenon made by neither.

Secondly, there would never be any need for the chip to run above spec and the CPU and indeed GPU will be fixed in terms of function and clockspeed for the whole of the console's lifespan. The Zephyr revision will never need to run any faster than the original since both will run the same software identically.


RE: Bah!
By abhaxus on 1/7/2007 5:27:59 PM , Rating: 2
While I agree that the idea of the 360 overclocking itself to support 1080p is ludicrous, I believe the poster was referring to Speedstep/PowerNow as an example of what the 360's chip would be doing. Same way many of would use kleenex instead of facial tissue.


RE: Bah!
By otispunkmeyer on 1/8/2007 5:19:52 AM , Rating: 2
theres no way the clocks would change for games. console games are desgined to work at a specific clock frequency (unlike PC's where it can vary wildly) so if you say doubled the cpu speed, then everything in game would happen 2 times as fast.

it would be like playing in fast forward.

least thats how the old xbox was, i remember reading about a modded one that had a turbo switch to overclock the cpu, but you couldnt use it because all your games went double time too lol!


RE: Bah!
By bplewis24 on 1/5/2007 11:46:08 AM , Rating: 1
Why would they overclock the processer when one of the main benefits for shrinking the process was heat dissipation issues?

Anyhow, this news sort of disheartens me as a guy who was an early adopter of this generation's consoles. I will probably never do so again.

Brandon


RE: Bah!
By masher2 (blog) on 1/5/2007 12:35:06 PM , Rating: 2
Let's see...an issue that affects the entire user base, versus an issue which affects only part of the user base. Which one is more significant?

You're right, that's a tough one....


RE: Bah!
By glennpratt on 1/5/2007 1:35:52 PM , Rating: 3
I see that Microsoft has had quite a few problems with the 360, but I believe heat dissipation was really blown out of proportion, since it was the only thing most people understand. My console and all the others I've seen run fairly cool (mine was made prior to launch).

Cold solder joints or other random hardware failures and flaky software seems to be the most common issue.


RE: Bah!
By sanctus on 1/5/2007 11:59:59 AM , Rating: 3
Hahahahahahahahah! Oh man! Thanks for the laugh! Overclocking the xbox cpu for 1080P! Damn! That is the funniest thing I have heard yet in 2007! Good one. More jokes please. I need the laughs.


RE: Bah!
By Rage187 on 1/5/2007 12:14:05 PM , Rating: 3
did it hurt pulling that out of your arse?



RE: Bah!
By ttnuagadam on 1/5/2007 1:07:54 PM , Rating: 3
ooh so apparently the Xenon is responsible for the 360's fill rate eh?


RE: Bah!
By Tsuwamono on 1/6/2007 10:02:13 AM , Rating: 3
To be fair to him the CPUs alone had a 3% fail rate after installation. that alone is alittle high even for Cell processors. There problem at hand here isnt the hardware its Microsofts Quality Assurance program. The man in charge is obviously being ripped a new one on a daily basis.


RE: Bah!
By ToeCutter on 1/8/2007 10:27:16 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I read somewhere else that the Xenon 65nm shrink was delayed. If true, I wouldn't .....


Posts like this perfectly demonstrate how the DT comments/forum/whatever has become a parody of tech news.

Trying to participate in meaning dialogue here has become the equivalent to conversing with a restroom graffiti artist between pitstops (only less entertaining)....


RE: Bah!
By S3anister on 1/5/2007 2:47:57 PM , Rating: 2
Too late for me to do that, eh. I got my 360 on day one.

NOW it would be COOL to have a HDMI to DVI cable for my monitor for when i take it places, but the VGA one works fine I guess...


RE: Bah!
By obeseotron on 1/5/2007 1:57:22 PM , Rating: 2
If Microsoft could make one, they'd be happy to and then charge $40 for it and make a tidy profit. There are no crypto keys in the original Xbox360 that you and I own, which means no hdcp, and thus no hdmi for us ever. Same way 1st gen PS3's will never be able to scale games to any resolution. The hardware companies cut corners on their first run hardware because they already take big losses.


RE: Bah!
By darith27 on 1/5/2007 2:52:57 PM , Rating: 2
HELL YEAH I KNEW IT!!! WOOHOOO!!! I'm so glad I waited to buy one, but, assuming it will come with all the new upgraded harware, how much will it be with the new processor replacement, larger HD space, and hdmi port?


RE: Bah!
By dubldwn on 1/5/2007 4:57:00 PM , Rating: 2
ok...get ready for this...it will be...EXACTLY THE SAME PRICE!!!


RE: Bah!
By Locutus465 on 1/5/2007 10:35:11 PM , Rating: 2
But hopefully the v1's will go down in price... say about to the range where I could afford one!


RE: Bah!
By kilkennycat on 1/6/2007 1:44:27 PM , Rating: 2
Keep your hand on your wallet. Wait for the announcement for the Xbox360 version (Xbox360-HD?) with the INTEGRATED HD-DVD drive for both HD-DVDs and hd-capacity games... fully backward-compatible with existing Xbox360 software of course. Should be announced by Christmas this year (2007), as the supply-situation on blue-lasers is significantly easing. After all, if Microsoft is adding full 1080p capability then why not take the next step and poke both fingers in Sony's eyes? With the 1-year full warranty and full integrated HD capability at a price likely to significantly undercut Sony, why should anybody bother buying a PS3 ? With the arrival of the Xbox360 v2, the non-integrated HD-drive is now the only real disadvantage left on the Xbox360 side in the console battle between M$$ and Sony.


RE: Bah!
By Bladen on 1/7/2007 3:53:46 AM , Rating: 2
Well another advantage may, just may, be free online play.

But hey, that's just my opinion.

Don't call me a Sony lover, as quite frankly I think they have started digging their own grave with the PS3. If they can survive then maybe next time they won't be so arrogant and dicky. To survive though, I believe that they need to have their range of games greater than the PS2, and increase the amount of party and casual games considerably.


RE: Bah!
By willow01 on 1/8/2007 8:38:14 PM , Rating: 2
While they're at it they may as well poke us pre-existing customers in the eyes to. That is if they ever make it so that games use hd-dvd then I'll be selling/trading in for a ps3 (I'm not about to go switching dvd disks in and out, especially now I'm hooked on wireless).
Actually scratch that I'll throw the thing away so I won't be burdening anyone else with a crippled version. I'm not fussed about a new version with everything in the box, but games on hddvd (as unlikely as it is) not on.


RE: Bah!
By The Sword 88 on 1/5/2007 8:43:10 PM , Rating: 2
This sucks.

I want the v2 now. HDMI would be nice and so would the other upgrades.


HD-DVD built-in option?
By UNCjigga on 1/5/2007 10:58:10 AM , Rating: 3
Please for the love of God make this available with built-in HD-DVD support! I don't care if you call it "Xbox 360 Ultimate Edition" and charge $599.99 for it--people will still buy it and Sony will shart in their pants!!! :)




RE: HD-DVD built-in option?
By f1sh3r on 1/5/2007 11:04:15 AM , Rating: 2
ive been holding off on getting a 360 hoping that the hd-dvd would come standard. im willing to wait a few months. i can start saving my money now.


RE: HD-DVD built-in option?
By dice1111 on 1/5/2007 11:44:38 AM , Rating: 2
Your going to be waiting a long time. Microsoft isn't going to do it.


RE: HD-DVD built-in option?
By HaZaRd2K6 on 1/5/2007 1:11:48 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Your [sic] going to be waiting a long time. Microsoft isn't going to do it.


Got a source for that assumption? I'd like to see why they won't, it seems like a pretty reasonable thing to expect, to me.


RE: HD-DVD built-in option?
By Goty on 1/5/2007 1:43:24 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Got a source for that assumption?


I do:

http://arstechnica.com/articles/headstart.ars

Read through the article, tow reps from MS explicitly state that there will not be a version of the 360 with a built-in DVD drive, nor will they release a larger HDD. Kinda makes me think a lot of this is a hoax anyways.


RE: HD-DVD built-in option?
By Hare on 1/6/2007 4:24:18 PM , Rating: 3
You expect these people to publicly say that there will be a better version so don't go out and buy the current model? Same thing with the pricecuts. Of course they deny it because otherwise people would hold of their purchase and that's not good for the company.


RE: HD-DVD built-in option?
By Hemipower on 1/7/2007 1:07:27 AM , Rating: 2
Why would sony shart thier pants if M$$ releases a version with the HD-dvd drive for 600 dollars. They are the same price and M$$ is screwing everybody that bought an original xbox and hd-dvd drive. If they do release the version with the HD-DVD than you can pretty much bet that they won't have it work with games.

And about the new rev. with hdmi, I think its a good move but as far as saying the machine is upgrading with new tech, thats bs. HDMI was around before the release of the 360. Its not like a new format came out and now they are implementing it.


RE: HD-DVD built-in option?
By timmiser on 1/8/2007 8:44:05 PM , Rating: 2
By including an HD-DVD built in to the 360, it will raise the base cost at least $200 and possibly require a redesigned case. Don't just assume that they have a slim form factor HD-DVD drive standing by that will fit in the same old 360 slim DVD slot and if they do, I'll bet it will cost them more than $200.

Also, MS just released the HD-DVD add-on drive which in my opinion sends a message to us that this is the route you need to go if you want HD-DVD movie capability.


RE: HD-DVD built-in option?
By zombiexl on 1/10/2007 1:59:07 PM , Rating: 2
Umm.. Didn't toshiba release a notebook with an HD-DVD. Wouldn't that be a slim HD-DVD?

And it should be less than $200 beucase the $200 includes a remote and an HD-DVD + the external power supply, case and the Laptop to USB converter thingy.

MS has said they are not losing $$$ on the HD-DVD which means they probably are getting them for closer to $150 with all that crap i mentioned above. Removing the $20 or so for the current dvd, the external case and such should make it closer to $100 cost difference and since MS is now making $$$ on the console they could probably go back to losss mode for a short time and keep the price close to where its at (or maybe $499 with the HDMI and 120GB drive).


RE: HD-DVD built-in option?
By timmiser on 1/10/2007 2:45:52 PM , Rating: 2
Toshiba does have a HD-DVD notebook but I'm sure the slim drives are not being produced at anywhere near the quantity they would need for the Xbox. But slim drives are always more expensive than their 5 1/4" brethen, especially for new technology such as this. But the real reason is why would MS force you to pay this extra money for HD-DVD since a good percentage of users would never take advantage of it. The addon option they currently have works good, keeps the Xbox 360 price down, keeps the HD-DVD price option down (for current Xbox 360 owners) and would only be paid for by those who want it.

I'll bet that Sony is wishing right now they went this route. If so, they would have had their PS3 out a year ago and be at the same price point as the Xbox 360 and be able to release a blue ray addon drive and would probably have the lead in the 360/ps3 war. They are in trouble now because there is no option to get out of the expensive blue ray debacle they are in with the PS3.


RE: HD-DVD built-in option?
By MooseMuffin on 1/5/2007 11:14:30 AM , Rating: 2
No way. Unlike Sony who has a stake in Blu-ray, MS doesn't really benefit from HD-DVDs success. They benefit because it hurts sony, but they can hurt sony in other ways. The larger harddrive will allow MS to skip the whole next gen dvd battle all together and let them push their movie service instead.


RE: HD-DVD built-in option?
By timmiser on 1/8/2007 8:57:46 PM , Rating: 2
No, Microsoft in September 2005 chose to back HD-DVD along with Intel and a host of other electronic companies.

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2005/sep0...


RE: HD-DVD built-in option?
By thejez on 1/5/2007 11:30:01 AM , Rating: 3
bad idea!! that would only make the 360 more expensive and then it would sitting on the shelf like the ps3s are alreadying doing... why did every store i visited last night have ps3's just sitting there untouched with signs beggin people to buy them?? because people dont want to pay $600 for a game console...

keep the HDDVD as an add-on... its the best of both worlds...


RE: HD-DVD built-in option?
By Goty on 1/5/2007 1:45:39 PM , Rating: 1
There are no signs "begging" people to buy the PS3s. There are more PS3s because the holiday season is over and production is picking up at the same time.


RE: HD-DVD built-in option?
By Gatt on 1/5/2007 3:48:18 PM , Rating: 2
Actually, there are numerous reports across the net on a number of different forums of store drones trying desperately to get people to buy PS3's.

My favorite one was the BB store that announced they'd be handing out tickets to everyone in line when the PS3 shipment came in, to discover only one person in line waiting for it when they arrived.

It doesn't have anything to do with the holidays, or the number of units produced so far. They've only shipped 1,000,000 units total, far less than theoretical demand.

It's simply that no one wants to pay $600 for a console when the next ailse over has the 360 for 200 less and almost all of the games available for PS3.


RE: HD-DVD built-in option?
By Goty on 1/5/2007 4:24:39 PM , Rating: 1
Ok, if there are so many reports of this, link me to just one credible article.


RE: HD-DVD built-in option?
By Lakku on 1/5/2007 5:29:10 PM , Rating: 3
I can't speak for the nation, but here in Austin, TX, this theory is wrong, at least in my experience so far. I have been looking for a Wii since November, but I am not willing to wait for hours, so I haven't had any luck. Already, this proves a point: it's after the holidays and there are NO Wii's anywhere around here. Hell, even the DS Lite (black and pink versions) are sold out almost everywhere I go. It is after the holidays, and when a Wii shipment came on December 30th or something, every Walmart I visited, and Best Buy, had people in line for them. All in all, I cannot find Wii's because the demand for them is still crazy. With that said, every place I have gone has had a PS3 in stock. Target, Best Buy, Walmart, EB/Gamespots, Frys, ALL of them, when I visited, had at least one 20gig or 60gig PS3 in stock in the past two weeks. They are probably sold now, but the point is, through last night when I was looking for Wiis, MANY places had PS3s in stock. In fact, at Gamespot, a guy was returning a PS3 to buy back his traded in 360. I can't agree that demand has lowered, because even before Christmas around here, there were PS3s sitting around, albeit only one or two at a time. Like I said, I can't speak for the rest of the US, but around here, I have seen little demand for the PS3, and from people who I talked to while trying to get a Wii, they said parents just didn't want to spend 600 for a game console for their kids. Most employees have said the people buying the PS3s are local university students or young guys, who they guessed were from the local high tech companies with money to burn.


RE: HD-DVD built-in option?
By TejTrescent on 1/6/2007 9:00:36 AM , Rating: 2
Haha. You want a Wii in Austin? I camped launch at one of the Circuit City locations. From how it's been there supplywise, I'm glad I did. I think it's the only way TO get one.


Curses!
By JimFear on 1/5/2007 10:42:52 AM , Rating: 1
This will be interesting, a 3rd SKU for retailers and us early adopters have been shafted feature-wise, hell there may even be a 4th SKU without a hard drive. These features should have been implemented from the very start with the 90nm processor rather than doing a turnaround and releasing a 360 with more goodies.

How dare they compell me to buy another 360 just for the goodies! DAAAMN YOUUUU! :(




RE: Curses!
By dstroope on 1/5/2007 10:52:31 AM , Rating: 2
I'll first have to upgrade my tv to accept the dvi.

In reality most people don't have an HD set when they are running these.. So it should really only piss off the dailytech tools (myself included) and not many others.


RE: Curses!
By bplewis24 on 1/5/2007 12:02:52 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
In reality most people don't have an HD set when they are running these.. So it should really only piss off the dailytech tools (myself included) and not many others


So because it doesn't affect the majority of the consumers who own this product it isn't as significant? Interesting argument that I've heard somewhere else recently.

Brandon


RE: Curses!
By artemicion on 1/5/2007 11:18:18 AM , Rating: 4
It's really no different from re-releasing the thinner PS2 with the ethernet adapter, the thinner ps1, or even the top loading original NES - in fact, really, every console I know of has gone through a number of bios revisions. It's inevitable that newer and better versions will be released as time goes on. Complaining about it is like complaining that your computer hardware is outdated after a year or so.


RE: Curses!
By Pneumothorax on 1/5/2007 11:57:21 AM , Rating: 2
The funny thing with the slim PS2 was, the old was better in every aspect other than size. You could add an ethernet port and adapter which also allows an addition of a hard drive. Furthermore, all the versions of PS2 used the same cable/port for display output. OTOH, the V1 360's are out in the cold when it comes to HDMI as it seems it's not possible to integrate it with the standard 360 display port.


RE: Curses!
By therealnickdanger on 1/5/2007 12:19:52 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
OTOH, the V1 360's are out in the cold when it comes to HDMI as it seems it's not possible to integrate it with the standard 360 display port.

I am still hopeful that Microsoft comes through with a HDMI adapter for current users, but I'm not holding my breath.


RE: Curses!
By obeseotron on 1/5/2007 1:59:59 PM , Rating: 2
The Slim PS2 had a faster DVD drive, it was not inferior to the old PS2.


RE: Curses!
By Polynikes on 1/5/2007 1:42:53 PM , Rating: 2
Still, it's disappointing to buy a v1 PS2 at $300, just to see it re-released later in a smaller package with the ethernet adapter built-in for $250. :\


RE: Curses!
By daftrok on 1/5/2007 2:07:20 PM , Rating: 2
You DO realize that there was over a three year gap between the old PS2 and the new PS2, right?


RE: Curses!
By The Sword 88 on 1/5/2007 8:49:29 PM , Rating: 2
Which is more acceptable than a 1.5 year gap taht microsoft may be doing.

Plus the slim had no new features. Just better size and stuff and integrated ethernet but my old PS2 could do allthe same stuff as the slim one wheras me old 360 still cannot use HDMI.


RE: Curses!
By jtyson on 1/5/2007 4:09:28 PM , Rating: 1
What strikes me as most ironic is that Microsoft condemned Sony for including an HDMI out and 1080p support in the PS3 because (as they put it), "nobody cares about that stuff." Fast forward to January 2007, when all the Xbox fanboys are going apesh*t over the inclusion of an HDMI out on the Xbox 360. The other thing that strikes me as ironic is that, unlike the PS2 analogy given by artemicion, the 360 is going to look EXACTLY the same as (and possibly cost more than) the original Xbox 360. Sony waited 2+ years to re-release the PS2, so that people who had already bought the "chunky" version were ready to fork over more money for the slimmer version... Oh! That, and the hardware update alienates those of us who foolish enough to purchase a 360 within the first year and a half.

Prediction: The hardware change does not boost unit sales, goes generally unnoticed, except to those who were already considering purchasing an Xbox 360 anyway.

In theory, it's a good move on MS' part. In practice, most people will not care.


RE: Curses!
By masher2 (blog) on 1/5/2007 11:20:49 AM , Rating: 3
I never understand the stilted logic that, simply because a better product come downs the pipe later, that those who bought earlier are somehow "shafted". Technology improves over time...sometimes very quickly. Deal with it. It's a good thing. Its your choice to buy early. You may pay more and get less features...but you get the product earlier. Don't blame manufacturers for giving you the option.


RE: Curses!
By Frank M on 1/5/2007 11:26:25 AM , Rating: 3
I agree.

In fact, in putting out the XBox 360 at all, they shafted the owners of the original XBox. All of the features of the XBox 360 should have been included int he original XBox.

How dare they compell me to buy another XBox just for the goodies!


RE: Curses!
By jtyson on 1/5/07, Rating: 0
RE: Curses!
By TomZ on 1/5/2007 4:55:53 PM , Rating: 2
That's crazy. If you went out and bought a model year 2006 car, drove it for around a year, and then the manufacturer came out with a design refresh for model year 2007, would you feel "shafted" in that case? How is that any different?

You got what you expected and paid for with your original purchase. Of course the product will be improved as time goes on, but you had the advantage of using it for a year already.


RE: Curses!
By TheDoc9 on 1/6/2007 1:41:32 PM , Rating: 1
We're not talking about cars. And by that logic, they could add ANYTHING into it, as long as they called it a 360. And yes, people who got this thing on day one have the right to be pissed off, we're not talking about a sleeker design here. We're talking about fundamental changes to the hardware including a new scaler chip and DVI. Two HUGE things.

You know it's funny, your paid to be here aren't you. I bet you were one of the cheerleaders originally saying how 'we don't need DVI or the HD-DVD drive' ect. Now that the system is being changed and they released an HD drive and we have to pay more for them - and in the case of DVI buy the system again - you and your co-workers are comparing it to normal everyday computer upgrades and cars!


RE: Curses!
By TomZ on 1/6/2007 2:35:26 PM , Rating: 2
I don't see how this situation is any different than my car analogy - the product underwent an update. Why would anybody be upset about that?

What I'm really getting at is - why does anyone assume that, included in the price of the product, is a guarantee from the manufacturer that the product will stay the "latest and greatest" technology for a number of years? That doesn't happen anywhere else in computer or consumer electronics, or in any other market AFAIK. Actually, when you consider the pace of change in technology, even 1 year is pretty good. The last time I bought a new PC, I used all top-end components, which were nearly all eclipsed by newer releases within 3 months of my purchase. That didn't take away from the value of my purchase one bit.

And no, I am not paid to be here. I'm not sure how you arrived at that incorrect conclusion. I own an engineering company and spend a few spare moments here in between work.


Something missing in this announcement ?
By kilkennycat on 1/5/2007 11:04:27 AM , Rating: 2
The integrated HD-DVD drive for BOTH movies AND games.... ?

Very likely in a variant of the v2 Xbox360. That should really make the Xbox360 (v1) "early adopters" very angry. But an essential counterweight to the PS3. Such is life in "early-adopter" land.....




By sabrewulf on 1/5/2007 11:30:43 AM , Rating: 3
360 has been out for over a year now, I wouldn't really call that "early adopter" anymore. I'm loathe to even use that term for consoles in the first place. Back in the day there were no "versions." You just bought a Super Nintendo and played everything under the sun without concern for the next 5-6 years.


RE: Something missing in this announcement ?
By lwright84 on 1/5/2007 11:51:04 AM , Rating: 2
games will never be developed for the HD-DVD medium.


RE: Something missing in this announcement ?
By daftrok on 1/5/2007 2:19:06 PM , Rating: 2
How can you be so sure? Microsoft said that they weren't going to add HDMI and that is in the realm of possibility. Sony said that the lower-end PS3 would not have HDMI and now it does. Nintendo said that they would not support component and now they support 480p. Nothing is for certain at this point.


RE: Something missing in this announcement ?
By S3anister on 1/5/2007 2:45:22 PM , Rating: 2
oh come on!!! be realistic here.

Microsoft has sold millions of their ORIGINAL 360. so why would they make a HD-DVD game, therfore leaving out A WHOLE BUNCH of people across the world.

Really? why would they make their customers feels more left out than before?


By camix on 1/5/2007 3:29:33 PM , Rating: 2
They wouldn't because there's a USB HD-DVD player original Xbox 360 users could buy to play them. Original adopters would not get left out. Games aren't gettin any smaller and in order to compete with the newer BIGGER games, which the PS3 is future proofed for, an integrated HD-DVD player would be a great idea for the next version of the 360.


RE: Something missing in this announcement ?
By Chillin1248 on 1/5/2007 6:18:37 PM , Rating: 4
I actually can see a game offered in both DVD9 and HD-DVD formats. A game that would take up more than two or three DVD9s (which one I cannot think of but assuming there is one) can also be put in a "Collectors Edition" on HD-DVD with some other collectible items (action figures and behind the scenes documentary) included.

But I think that this will have to be done by a publisher other than Microsoft since I believe they stated that they will never put a game out on HD-DVD.

But also the economics really don't work out for a HD-DVD game on the Xbox360, so it will mostly be a limited novel item if anything.

-------
Chillin


RE: Something missing in this announcement ?
By crystal clear on 1/6/2007 4:46:23 AM , Rating: 1
Hi there-this is for you (not related to this topic)-this is the only way I can be in touch with you.

*Bill Gates’ Keynote Address
Transcripts and view-on-demand portions of the keynote address will be posted to http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/events/ces/defa... beginning Monday morning.

*Coming soon: Microsoft Windows Home Server?

There's been radio chatter this week of a possible new addition to the Windows family: a "Home Server." If the chatter is right, Microsoft will unveil it at CES, which kicks off next week. "Home Server," according to my sources, is about centralized storage, home automation and security. More on that in a minute

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070105-8557...

Also-

http://giyus.org/


By crystal clear on 1/7/2007 5:19:33 AM , Rating: 2
This message was FOR Chillin ONLY & NOT FOR ANYBODY ELSE-
read post-it clearly implies that.
Only find it rated down-

-By crystal clear on 1/6/2007 4:46:23 AM , Rating: 1

This is just for the guy WHO ABUSES THE VOTING SYSTEM & or MISUSES IT.

*Ratings DONT bother me a bit,nor do I care about it.

*I dont make my comments for ratings,rather on what I think,know about the subject matter.In short my opinions.

*If you dont approve it -give a counter argument & NOT VOTE
IT DOWN.
ITS PLAIN COWARDLY-CREEPY-SLIMY of that person to hide behind the VOTING system.

*THIS EXAMPLE PROVES MY CASE.

*I waited for this opportunity to prove-how many of posters
making good/valid comments get voted down by a few who MISUSE the system,for CHEAP THRILLS.

*THIS is blatant ABUSE of the Voting/Rating system.

STOP THIS.


RE: Something missing in this announcement ?
By MattCoz on 1/5/2007 4:49:37 PM , Rating: 2
Nintendo never said they wouldn't support component, 480p was a feature of Wii from the beginning. They only said they wouldn't support HD.


By daftrok on 1/6/2007 2:35:05 AM , Rating: 2
You're right, I confused 480p with HDTV when it is in fact SDTV.


Early Adopters
By BPB on 1/5/2007 11:26:21 AM , Rating: 2
Why should early adopters be ticked? Odds are this will cost close to the PS3 if they put in everything folks here want. And the PS3 is not selling nearly as hot as expected. The GameStops near me tell me they take 2 or 3 days to leave the store. So in reality how many people would have opted for the new version if it costs $200 to $300 more than what they paid? If from day 1 you had three choices, I'm sure most still would have taken the $399 choice.

As for those wanting the HD-DVD built-in, I like the external one and think it's a steal. I can plug it into the 360 AND plug it into my PC. Can't do that with an internal. Though it is cheap enough where you could have both, I guess. 1080P would be nice, but how many people have a 1080P TV? Maybe a montior, but not a TV. By the time 1080P TV's in a decent size are affordable, the 360 will be cheaper, possibly much cheaper. Nope, I just can't see why people would complain about this. Early adopters have had over a year of great HD gaming, be happy!




RE: Early Adopters
By bplewis24 on 1/5/07, Rating: 0
RE: Early Adopters
By BPB on 1/5/2007 12:12:39 PM , Rating: 2
At the same point in time for the 360 is was leaving the stores as fast as it arrived. And certainly the Wii is doing that as well. Try getting a Wii without paying a premium. And they made many times more Wii's than PS3's. 12 months ago I could have said try getting a 360. It was quite a while before 360's didn't leave the store before they could be put on a shelf. The Gamestop employees near me tell me there's no excitement for the PS3, only the Wii. And in their opinion many PS3 buyers want it for the Blue-Ray DVD, not gaming.


RE: Early Adopters
By GreenEnvt on 1/5/2007 1:08:36 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed, Nintento has shipped MANY more Wii's then Sony has PS3's, and people are still lining up for Wii's in some areas, a month after release. It took me many, many trips to best buy and EB before I finally lucked out this week and got a Wii.

Every store I went to had PS3's sitting on the shelves.


RE: Early Adopters
By Milliamp on 1/6/2007 3:45:00 PM , Rating: 2
I was at Wal-Mart last night and I noticed that they had 6 PS3's sitting there on the shelf (located in western NY). I asked the store rep about it and he said they have had them in stock for quite a while now and people have not really been after them.

On the other hand, he said they have been selling out of Wiis as soon as the shipments come in.

So it would seem that the lacking PS3 sales are not entirely just becasue of lack of supply.

With a revision on the way, and costs that would allow MS to make a price reduction if they need to, it would seem that the 360 will be retaining their market share against the PS3 for a while longer.


RE: Early Adopters
By sanctus on 1/5/2007 12:38:28 PM , Rating: 2
I agree with you BDP. I cannot understand why people are getting so upset over some "announced" (I have yet to hear Microsoft officially announce anything)vaporware that nobody here has actually seen yet. I am very happy with my launch day 360 and I could give two &*%$# about an HDMI connection. I am a very happy "early adopter." By the way, where do you live that you see PS3s in stock. I don't want to buy one since there are no really good games for it yet, but I have never seen even one PS3 in any store since launch day. I set up a PS3 for my nephew and I was extremely unimpressed. The PS3 is even more underwhelming than the PS2 was at launch. Happy New Year and everybody just chill out about this presently unavailable hardware.


RE: Early Adopters
By BPB on 1/5/2007 1:55:54 PM , Rating: 2
I live between Boston and Providence. 2 weeks ago I was at the Franklin, MA, Gamestop. They told me it took 3 days to sell the last 3 PS3s they had and that nobody was clamoring for them. And this BEFORE Christmas. Then later in the week I was at the Woonsocket, RI, Gamestop. They had a 20GB model in stock that was generating low interest. They told me that like Franklin their PS3s where not screaming out the door. The Wii on the other hand, both stores told me I’d have a hard time getting one. So much so that I considered the deal at Gamestop’s website, but $680 is too much. I know of no store that will tell you in advance when Wii’s are arriving. Oh well, in time they too will be more available. There are several Wii games we’re looking forward to playing. We could get them for other platforms but hear the Wii is worth the wait.


RE: Early Adopters
By borowki on 1/5/2007 4:59:46 PM , Rating: 2
I think people are too hung up on aesthetics. To me the practical benefits of a set-up with two disc drives is obvious. It means you can watch a movie without having to remove the game disc. I think that's precisely the reason why people rarely use their consoles to watch movies in the last generation (at least in the US). Gamers finding that their games absent from their machine could lead to unhappy domestic relationships.


RE: Early Adopters
By Bryf50 on 1/5/2007 6:20:36 PM , Rating: 2
Im sorry but was that supposed to be funny?


Upgrade option to V2 should be offered.
By vdig on 1/5/07, Rating: 0
RE: Upgrade option to V2 should be offered.
By PLaYaHaTeD on 1/5/2007 11:15:56 AM , Rating: 5
You bought your xbox when these technologies weren't readily available. There was no way in hell they could have managed to include these features without delaying the console.

They offered a decent product at a decent price with reasonable technology at the time, and now they are going to update it to be more competitive. I have a hard time believing that you didn't see this as a potential outcome when you made your purchase. And if you didn't, well then maybe you should be angry at yourself. Don't blame your lack of insight on M$.


By vdig on 1/5/2007 11:35:00 AM , Rating: 2
I'm not necessarily upset at MS. I saw it coming. I CAN live without it. It would just be nice for MS to have such a program.

Besides, I myself have no real reason to explode with fury. There are NO monitors in my household with HDMI in. What I need now is an HD-TV or HD-Projector + screen. I can get 1080 i max from my cheap projector, and it has no HDMI in. Oh well.


By bplewis24 on 1/5/2007 12:00:26 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
You bought your xbox when these technologies weren't readily available


HDMI wasn't readily available in november 2005?

Brandon


RE: Upgrade option to V2 should be offered.
By froggystyle66 on 1/5/2007 12:01:17 PM , Rating: 1
What is agrivating is that for months now, microsoft has flat out lied about their intention to release an updated x360. Over and over they have said that the 360 out is it and thats that. I would venture to guess that a decent number of people bought the 360 on that understanding. I guess its ok for corporations to lie and mislead consumers, but what do I know.


By therealnickdanger on 1/5/2007 1:07:54 PM , Rating: 3
They never lied to you, they denied you the truth. There's a difference. Saying, "No, there will never be another version of the Xbox360." and "No, we have no plans to announce a new version at this time." are two very difference things.

If everyone who sold a product was expected and forced to put their entire strategy on display for the world to see, it would severely hamper sales of existing products, which would, in turn, possibly prohibit the production of said upgrades. If when they launched the Xbox360, they told you they would have a revision in less than two years that would have more bells and whistles, what would you do? Personally, I wouldn't wait, but many would.


By Frank M on 1/5/2007 4:33:07 PM , Rating: 2
What silly reasoning.

You knew what the product offered when you purchased it. You clearly considered it worth the price. What happens after that has no affect on the product you bought for the price you paid.


AV connector and HDMI?
By goz314 on 1/5/2007 11:40:41 AM , Rating: 2
It's interesting to note from the article image that this v2 xbox 360 will include both the standard proprietary AV connector and an HDMI connector. Wouldn't having a standard AV interface like HDMI sort of deal Microsoft out of their own proprietary cable business? It has been their policy in the past to force users to utilize xbox specific cabling in order to maximize revenues.

Perhaps there is a technical limitation that won't allow the HDMI signaling to route through the larger AV connector. Or, maybe the HDMI specification is so tightly controlled as to not allow non-standard I/O connectors. I don't know. Does anyone have any ideas on why they might be opting for this dual connector approach as opposed to just an updated AV cable with integrated HDMI connectivity?




RE: AV connector and HDMI?
By FITCamaro on 1/5/2007 12:52:27 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Or, maybe the HDMI specification is so tightly controlled as to not allow non-standard I/O connectors.


This would be my guess.


RE: AV connector and HDMI?
By daftrok on 1/5/2007 2:16:13 PM , Rating: 2
Hmmm...if HD-DVD video and audio can be streamed INTO the Xbox 360 via USB, is there a chance that HDMI can be sent OUT of the Xbox 360 via USB? I highly doubt that 480 Mbps is enough, but maybe just video stream and not audio?


RE: AV connector and HDMI?
By MattCoz on 1/5/2007 5:05:49 PM , Rating: 2
1080p/60fps/24bpp requires 3Gbps of bandwidth, so USB doesn't come close.


RE: AV connector and HDMI?
By Lakku on 1/5/2007 10:26:12 PM , Rating: 2
You are using uncompressed video for those numbers there, at least that is what I am guessing. Otherwise, you are looking at something that would be 180Gb a minute, or 10,800 per hour. Last I checked, HD-DVD nor Bluray drives could read their media at 3Gbps, so how could they play their content? No, most video playsback, for these formats, at about 15 to 30Mbps, plus UP to 5 to 10Mbps for the audio, at the most, as far as I know. Also, HD-DVDs and BR playback at about 36 to 40 Mbps at 1x.


RE: AV connector and HDMI?
By Vinnybcfc on 1/6/2007 9:48:01 AM , Rating: 2
Guess what comes out of VGA, DVI and HDMI ports???

Uncompressed video!

Here is a quote from a wikipedia article to prove this:

quote:
No compression is used and DVI does not yet have a specification for only transmitting changed parts of the image. This means that currently, the whole frame is constantly re-transmitted.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVI


RE: AV connector and HDMI?
By ArneBjarne on 1/6/2007 5:31:38 AM , Rating: 2
Maximum data transfer rate

HD DVD movie spec: 36.55Mbps (1x)
Blu-ray movie spec: 54.0Mbps (1.5x)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD#Video


Cell?
By SilthDraeth on 1/5/2007 10:11:12 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
console cooler by utilizing the 65nm Cell processor as opposed to the 90nm chip currently in use.


I thought the 360 utilized a powerpc derived chip, but that it was in fact not Cell.

Does the current 360 use Cell?
Will the new 360 use Cell, or is that a typo?




RE: Cell?
By Eurasianman on 1/5/2007 10:27:54 AM , Rating: 2
Playstation 3 is cell. The XBOX 360 is a IBM PowerPC with a 3 core CPU with 2 threads per core = 6 threads ;)


RE: Cell?
By ElJefe69 on 1/5/07, Rating: -1
RE: Cell?
By Woodchuck2000 on 1/5/2007 3:34:49 PM , Rating: 2
What, exactly, are you objecting to in his post? Everything he said is simple fact - PS3 is Cell. XBox 360 (Xenon) is tri-core PPC. Although that said, he didn't even mention relative speed in his post...

Futhermore, Cell is no more poweful than an Intel Kentsfield CPU - saying it's immensely more powerful than anything available on PC is pure hyperbole. It's not even that much more powerful than the Xenon, especially for any general-purpose computing.


RE: Cell?
By ElJefe69 on 1/7/2007 12:58:55 AM , Rating: 2
Um, general purpose computing ='s lame 1980's single thread design for home computers = mhz wars.

more powerful ='s computational power/mathematical calcs, floating point calcs, bandwidth between cpu's, whatever. That makes a ps3 immensely more powerful but maybe, never utilized. Of course, one day it will be and by then this will be a 300 dollar machine.


RE: Cell?
By Woodchuck2000 on 1/8/2007 7:02:02 PM , Rating: 2
You're still showing a complete lack of any knowledge about CPUs or their architecture.

General-purpose computing is not necessarily single-threaded, certainly isn't restricted to the 1980s and involves "mathematical calcs, floating point calcs, bandwidth between cpu's [sic] " and indeed "whatever." as you put it.

Go and read up on the subject before you attempt to argue about it... Simple fact is that in 99% of applications, Cell is no more powerful than a current-generation "lame" general-purpose CPU. And in a great many others, it will perform significantly worse.


RE: Cell?
By ViperROhb34 on 1/7/2007 4:59:33 PM , Rating: 2
If you really beleive Cell is IMMENSELY more powerful then Xbox 360's cores you need to do some more reading. I'd say its alittle more powerful, but it also appears that 360's video GPU is more powerful then PS3's. I've read more then one article that has said PS3 has a bottleneck in its graphics card. What good is a powerful CPU is the GPU won't take advantage of it ? Already TWO PS3 games that are also on 360 have shown this. COD3 and Tony Hawk Project on PS3 tend to studder in graphically intense areas and on the 360 they are SMOOTH..

Also.. the cell processor used in PS3 doesnt even have all working cores.. in essence programmers have to do alot more work to harness the power of cell and in todays competitive world this is helping Sony's cause.

Ive read many magazines and articles relaying that developers feel the PS3 and Xbox 360 are on pretty even terms when it comes to power. Assasins Creed which was lost as an exclusive was in one magazine last month.. the Developer stated that because of 360's power and ease of programming that the 360 version of Assasins Creed would actually have more game content then PS3 !

And all this talka bout what processor is better really is MOOT anyways.. its not stopping Nintendo from outselling PS3 BIGTIME .. and they might not even halve 1/3 the power of 360 or PS3..


More and more like a regular PC
By sabrewulf on 1/5/2007 11:22:40 AM , Rating: 5
At the rate this is going, the whole "consoles are cheaper and don't need to be upgraded" argument will be in the toilet in no time.




By sanctus on 1/5/2007 12:56:37 PM , Rating: 2
They are still a whole lot cheaper than a powerful gaming PC


RE: More and more like a regular PC
By Woodchuck2000 on 1/5/2007 3:39:31 PM , Rating: 2
I hate to break this to you, but you'll never need to upgrade in order to play new games released for that system.

A first gen XBox360 will play any game released for that system. Newer versions will have more features or be technically better, but the gaming experience (which is what you're buying) will remain unchanged. People seem to be forgetting this fact...


By timmiser on 1/8/2007 9:31:28 PM , Rating: 2
Historically in the past, what you say is true. But today with the 360, if you want to play Xbox Live games, you have to upgrade to the 20GB hard drive model.

Next generation, maybe you'll need a system RAM upgrade for Call of Duty 5?

Especially since early market signs this year hints that the PSP3 might have moved outside the viable price point for consoles meaning that future consoles may need to take the xBox 360 approach with a cheaper "entry" system with an upgradable path. We already see hard drive and optical drive upgrades today, will we see RAM or GPU upgrades in teh future?


Speeling
By bobsmith1492 on 1/5/2007 10:12:36 AM , Rating: 4
- should be "pare down" costs...




RE: Speeling
By Pitbulll0669 on 1/5/07, Rating: -1
RE: Speeling
By Eurasianman on 1/5/07, Rating: 0
RE: Speeling
By kkwst2 on 1/5/2007 10:59:48 AM , Rating: 3
Pulled it out of the old bunghole, I suspect. The 360 has nothing to do with the Intel architecture. It was properly modded down.


RE: Speeling
By ttnuagadam on 1/5/2007 10:58:52 AM , Rating: 2
haha is this a joke? theres no intel cpu in the 360...


RE: Speeling
By Url on 1/5/2007 1:58:38 PM , Rating: 2
Not only is there no Intel CPUs. The custom-built IBM chip doesnt have x86 architecture.


Sounds good so far...
By VIAN on 1/5/2007 10:57:08 AM , Rating: 2
I was really hoping they'd release... and am still hoping, that they'll release a 360 edition with a built in HD-DVD drive. That would be sexy.




RE: Sounds good so far...
By ElJefe69 on 1/5/07, Rating: 0
RE: Sounds good so far...
By Zapp Brannigan on 1/6/2007 3:34:21 PM , Rating: 2
I don't think it's the expense of a HD-DVD drive that stopped microsoft from adding it. There just wasn't enough blue lasers in the world to justify having one. No way in hell would they have sold 6 million 360's in a year if they had released it last year with a hd-dvd drive, just because they wouldn't have had enough of the lasers, plus they would have had to delay the console because hd-dvd wasn't even released when the 360 came out.





RE: Sounds good so far...
By timmiser on 1/8/2007 9:33:34 PM , Rating: 2
In other words, what Zapp is saying is that Microsoft is smarter than you. :)


RE: Sounds good so far...
By ATC on 1/5/2007 9:06:46 PM , Rating: 2
I agree about integrating an HD-DVD drive. That would also possibly address the drive noise issue in current 360s.

I had my 360 for six months before it died. It and its replacement had very loud drives, way louder than the fans. It was so bad that I thought it was a defect, but my two units and about 4 others I've seen at friends' are all the same and we've all got them at different times (ranging from launch to only a few weeks ago).

I got a PS3 now as well and I have to say, my hat's off to Sony. The PS3 is creepy quiet compared to the 360 even after hours of play.

I think there is enough room in the market for both Sony and MSFT and I hope both stay in business competing with each other.

But I will say this; Sony will always be a hardware company and MSFT a software company. Read into that as much as you like : )


RE: Sounds good so far...
By Zapp Brannigan on 1/6/2007 3:46:43 PM , Rating: 2
I agree that the dvd-rom drive is loud, but it's loud because it spins so fast. The drive on the 360 reads data at 12x speed. Having a hd-dvd drive isn't going to make any difference because the games are still gonna be on dvd's and are still gonna need to read at 12x speed, still gonna be really loud. Play an standard xbox game on the 360 and the drive is much quieter, because the original xbox had a 5x drive and thats the speed it uses while playing those games.

I guess they just decided to have quicker loading times and more noise, instead of a quieter console and longer loading times.


This does not surprise me
By latino666 on 1/5/2007 8:10:34 PM , Rating: 3
Wasn't it mentioned months before the Xbox360 went on sale that they would update it later on in its life span?





RE: This does not surprise me
By stmok on 1/5/2007 10:15:00 PM , Rating: 2
This is why you never buy first generation products. ;)

Always wait for the 2nd...They always address ths issues suffered by the first.

This is why I always refer "early adopters" as guinea pigs. :D


RE: This does not surprise me
By timmiser on 1/8/2007 9:49:04 PM , Rating: 2
So how long should we wait to buy a PS3?


RE: This does not surprise me
By rykerabel on 1/9/2007 2:48:47 PM , Rating: 2
Easy: Until they release the game you want on the PS3 platform.

(Personally, I'm very happy with my PS3)


V2 dont do much
By OrSin on 1/5/2007 11:30:20 AM , Rating: 1
First HDMI is not better the current cables. Yes its digital andcares audio but picture and sound qaulity will stay the same. SO you are missing nothing.

Second games will be outputed in 1080P. No matter you settings games are not made for that resolution and no upscaling will even happen. You again are missing nothing.

The hard drive is very nice addition but I'm sure you will be paying for it. And I'm sure you can still by it later.

All in all its improved system but in the end you are not missing out on anything. Xbox 360 is the first console you can upgrade and people are getting made because MS has actaully upgraded some parts in stead of sending out teh same thing for 5 years? Should MS has released it with this? No. I say no becuase I don't want he Sony like launch. At the time not all TV had HDMI. Yes most but now all. I got 3 HDTV and and my 65 has only component.
MS released a good product 1 year ago. Not they are releasing some thing better. No one get made when computers and even DVD player make a better product. You just get it or not.

I'm not a MS fanboy but damn I perfer a console that can be upgrade in time then one that will stay the same and add nothing new for 5 years.

In a year or 2 when HD dvd drops in price I sure thier will be V3 with HD-DVD standard. I pefer for MS to be slightly behind the curve then in front of it like SOny and crap everything up. Let everyone one else get it right then adopt it.






RE: V2 dont do much
By bplewis24 on 1/5/2007 11:57:04 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Yes its digital andcares audio but picture and sound qaulity will stay the same


Sound quality will be the same? In order to output uncompressed lossles audio tracks a good amount of bandwith is needed. HDMI is great for the present and future of audio from HD content. Of course, the xbox360 probably doesn't decode these advanced audio codecs because the HD-DVD drive isn't built in, but I'm sure at some point it could if they chose to.

Brandon


RE: V2 dont do much
By glennpratt on 1/5/2007 1:32:07 PM , Rating: 2
Just to clarify what Brandon is saying, some of the advanced audio tracks, like 7.1 lossless either go out over HDMI or must be output as analog by the player, which the v1 360 has neither.

Now I'm not sure, but I don't see why the HD-DVD drive being external or USB has any bearing on proper audio output over HDMI. It's really just a bridge to ATAPI. Computers don't use a physical SPDIF passthrough anymore and I doubt that would regress with HD DVD. There is more then enough bandwidth there.


RE: V2 dont do much
By bdewong on 1/5/2007 12:04:19 PM , Rating: 2
I was working retail sales when the xbox 360 came out and I'd have to say that 90% of all the HD TVs that were available at that time came with HDMI.

Also about games being "outputed in 1080P", HDMI can carry that signal as well as all the others 1080i,720p...

My ultimate wish for the xbox 360 would be for it to support usb hdds for all of their content. I am a little upset that I don't get the new features but that could be very far off and I only have myself to blame for buying what I thought was a very good deal.


hard drive size
By uuummmm on 1/5/2007 12:18:44 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Also on the way is a 120GB hard drive which would double the capacity of Sony's top-ranging PS3.


Yes, the 120GB hard drive would be double the size of the PS3 60GB, but this is a little bit misleading since you can upgrade the PS3 hard drive with a larger laptop hard drive.




RE: hard drive size
By deeznuts on 1/5/2007 12:56:21 PM , Rating: 2
And, MS charges $100 for their 20GB. How much is an external 120GB going to be, if offered? Someone is going to get screwed.



RE: hard drive size
By daftrok on 1/5/2007 2:24:22 PM , Rating: 1
And it isn't limited to laptop (2.5") HDDs. With a 2.5" to 3.5" adapter, you can hook up a broad range of 3.5" HDDs, making the possibilities endless. PS3 had the right idea. They come out with a product that will keep with the times, and maybe in a few years they'll make a smaller version with very slight upgrades (a faster spinning drive or perhaps more slots for memory cards and use less power). Nothing too dramatic (like this V2 360) to piss off people if it came out.


RE: hard drive size
By ElJefe69 on 1/7/2007 1:13:31 AM , Rating: 2
Yes this is 100% true. all it is a sata conector. I use 2.5 hd's for towers going the reverse way. Sata is neato for this sort of thing.

That's a really really good point :) You could easily put a cheap 400gb drive next the machine. I wonder if you can support multiple drives. I bet you could somehow.

anything over 120gb for a sata 2.5 is kind of expensive at this point in a mass quantity sort of way. I do believe their are high performing 200gb 2.5's out currently.


120GB drive - wish we had option to install games
By Rekonn on 1/5/2007 10:57:29 AM , Rating: 2
With a 120GB drive, that's enough space for games. I'd love to be able to buy a game, copy it to my hard drive and just run it off that. Not hearing that damn dvd drive while gaming would be a godsend.

I don't even think it would be that hard to implement. Msft could just release a patch giving the user the option of copying the game to hd. If they're worried about copy protection they could still force the gamer to keep the disc in the DVD drive while gaming.




By therealnickdanger on 1/5/2007 11:05:39 AM , Rating: 2
20GB is enough for games... the problem is their video service, which takes up almost all available free space just for a couple of shows and a movie. 120GB is kinda dumb... why not just let us download to external/network drives?


By rykerabel on 1/9/2007 3:02:13 PM , Rating: 2
That's odd. I never hear the drive even in the most quiet of moments...

oh, wait, nm, sorry, i have a PS3

(please excuse my silliness)

For some self retribution, just think about how PS3 could easily stand for Piece of Sh.t 3.

(I don't think so. I love my PS3, but its still amusing)


It's a hoax....
By Goty on 1/5/2007 1:52:59 PM , Rating: 1
One of the details of this article in particular make me think this is a hoax: the HDD. MS has gone on the record explicitly stating that they will not offer a larger HDD for the 360. And why would they when they can go out and charge you $100 for a 20GB replacement? This is all on top of the fact that that is probably one of the worst pictures I've ever seen of a "leaked" product. It's probably dark to mask their terrible dremel job on the back faceplate.

Oh, and I just have to comment on everyone hoping for an internal HD-DVD drive. What happened to all the people who were singing the praises of MS fro having the intelligence to offer the HD-DVD drive as an add-on? Does it suddenly become the best idea in the world when it becomes a possibility that MS might do it, but not when Sony does it? (Oh, yeah, MS has also stated that it won't offer an internal HD-DVD drive, too, so you guys can stop drooling now).




RE: It's a hoax....
By NotAok on 1/5/2007 4:54:42 PM , Rating: 2
...please do show us where MS said they would never offer a larger harddrive. (because they never did say that)


RE: It's a hoax....
By Goty on 1/5/2007 6:19:43 PM , Rating: 1
I beg to differ:

http://arstechnica.com/articles/headstart.ars

Read that article, MS would not say that they're releasing a bigger HD.


RE: It's a hoax....
By Mday on 1/6/2007 10:54:01 AM , Rating: 2
not saying they would, and saying they would not are two different things.

the Greenberg quote is a denial of the fact, not an affirmation of the negative.


Ooooh I get it
By jay2o01 on 1/6/2007 1:45:12 AM , Rating: 2
so the price cut will probably soon be here to get the garbage core and false "premium" v1 xboxes off the shelves.

why wouldnt MS include wifi... do they still wanna burn you for that extra 100? will this be a feature in xbox 360 v3?




RE: Ooooh I get it
By fenderkb76 on 1/6/2007 10:46:58 AM , Rating: 2
For a slightly less expensive wireless solution, take a Linksys WRT54G or GS (v1-4 only) or a WRT54GL, load DD-WRT and use Wireless Distribution System. It will access your main wireless router (so long as its running DD-WRT). The 360 will plug into it (as will anything else that has an Ethernet jack) and see it as a wired connection. http://www.dd-wrt.com/dd-wrtv2/ddwrt.php


RE: Ooooh I get it
By fenderkb76 on 1/6/2007 10:51:34 AM , Rating: 2
For a slightly less expensive wireless solution, take a Linksys WRT54G or GS (v1-4 only) or a WRT54GL, load DD-WRT and use Wireless Distribution System. It will access your main wireless router (so long as its running DD-WRT). The 360 will plug into it (as will anything else that has an Ethernet jack) and see it as a wired connection. http://www.dd-wrt.com/dd-wrtv2/ddwrt.php


typo?
By masher2 (blog) on 1/5/2007 10:09:59 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
utilizing the 65nm Cell processor as opposed to the 90nm chip currently in use...
Shouldn't that be "Xenon"?




RE: typo?
By Eurasianman on 1/5/2007 10:24:36 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
According to Engadget, the Xbox 360 v2 (codenamed Zephyr) should go a long way in making the console cooler by swapping out the 90nm IBM Xenon PowerPC processor in favor of a 65nm revision that has not been announced yet.


That's what I got. *sighs* I hate when they do that. Makes me regret getting consoles when they first come out. This is partially the reason why I have not gotten a Nintendo Wii or Sony PS3. Well, I might be trading in the box for v2...


Before everyone goes crazy
By 05SilverGT on 1/5/2007 11:48:10 AM , Rating: 3
Let's see how all this pans out. I got my XBox360 on launch and I'm not going to go crazy over a pic and some specs. I'm sure there probably are HDMI 360 units. Heck for all we know that could be a preproduction box shot. Until something concrete comes from MS lets not get too excited either way.




RE: Before everyone goes crazy
By sanctus on 1/5/2007 12:50:41 PM , Rating: 2
Amen, sir! Some people just need to chill out about vaporware and enjoy the presently available stuff. I swear, people will cry about anything these days. No offense to anyone hear, but you all (the complainers) sound like a bunch of spoiled brats. I certainly hope that Microsoft keeps improving their product. Like other posters have said already, you are really not missing anything with the original version. If more people buy a 360 than a PS3 because they are HDMI whores, that will only mean more games for the 360. Everybody wins. Quit yer whining!


RE: Before everyone goes crazy
By ElJefe69 on 1/7/07, Rating: 0
Code Name used already
By deeznuts on 1/5/2007 2:48:38 PM , Rating: 5
Found this on gamespot. Why would MS use the code name "Zephyr" when they are already using it as a an automated crash-reporting tool?

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1731365,00.as...




microsoft should...
By johnsonx on 1/5/2007 7:00:15 PM , Rating: 3
Microsoft should simply integrate the HD-DVD drive and the other features talked about in the article, and call it the XBOX 360HD. Done.




RE: microsoft should...
By timmiser on 1/8/2007 9:54:43 PM , Rating: 2
...and sell it for $599 and then let it sit on store shelves just like the PS3.



its still about the games...
By oden2k on 1/6/2007 12:45:06 AM , Rating: 2
Anyways Microsoft isn't going to force everyone to upgrade to the new 360 v2. People will still be able to play all the upcoming 360 games on their current 360 without any issues. I find it HI-LARIOUS some people here commenting like this is the end of the 360. if anything it will encourage people who have been on the fence to finally get an XBOX 360.

ultimately it still boils down to the games. and the 360 has a great selection coming up. I'm also waiting for the PS3 to start spitting out some GREAT games. but alas, still waiting...




By karlreading on 1/6/2007 11:39:35 AM , Rating: 3
Agreed.
Now, lets dispell some of the drivvle ive been reading over this page of 139 comments.
for a start, if you have the original xbox 360, you still have a 1080p capable product. HDMI does not change this. what it does mean though is if you own a v1 360 you have to box clever and buy a 1080p telly that excepts 1080p over coponent. they do exist, and, yes, when i replace my 720p telly ill be making sure im buying the samsung model ive already researched and know to accept 1080p over component. to me, the benefits of HDMI bieng included on v2. 360's is the HDCP downscaling that MAY be put into play later on HD format movie discs, and also the size and finess of the hdmi as a phisical connection.

As for audio? well anyone who knocks current 360's audion abilitys should hear it trhough my pro logic reciever, via the telly and the component connection, and believe me it sounds the schizzle! and dont forget, there is a optical out on the 360 coponent cable on the base of tyhe connector and the console end of the cable.

120 GB HDD. fantastic, i would have braught a core if i had to, i wanted the console. the fact they want to bring a 120GB hdd is good news, means i can add one later to my current 360.

65NM - great for the console, cooler, thus less noisey 360 ( although is r500 bieng shrank as well? that prolly runs as hot as xenos anyway ) and cheaper to make as more dies per wafer, helping m$ make the console cheaper.

so lets recap, at ps3 fanbois take note before you say silly comments like 360 cant do 1080p:

1) HDMI - nice, but chose the right equipment - and this is not a console fault on v1 360's, and your firmware updated 360 v1 will happily give you true 1080p over the coponent cables

2) die shrink - so my v1. is a bit nosey - who cares. its not a pc - so 65nm dosent help overclock it better. it makes 360 cheaper and will help more be sold - great for me - more friends enjoying owning 360 with me and more chance of 360 gaining even more market share and people making great games for my console

3) hdd - cool, ill buy one and slot it on the top :)

4) the asphetics will be tha same - so whos to know you dont have a port on the back that - while expanding connection posibilitys - will in no way bring anything other than HDCP for movies to your 360 experience.

This is good for the 360 as a whole guys, im happy i braught a v1, ive enjoyed it so far, the update brings lots of indirect benefits to current 360 owners and makes a console that already stands EQUAL to the ps3, that little bit more armoured in the fight for the next gen market!
KARLOS!


Exchanges
By fenderkb76 on 1/5/2007 1:01:40 PM , Rating: 1
I'll preface my comments by saying that I don't own a 360, but I do own and original Xbox and a Wii. I also don't have an HDTV.

It would be nice if you could trade in your 360 plus some money for the upgraded box. However, I don't see that happening. What is Microsoft going to do with the old 360s? I guess there's a possibility they could be re-worked and converted up to the new standard by resoldering chips/adapters on the motherboard, but that is more trouble than its worth. Not to mention the CPUs, I doubt they would waste the money to upgrade those. The HDD upgrade would also bite them. I guess they could leave the CPU and HDD alone and then resell them just with the HDMI cable. But, they would have to disclose that they were in fact "used/remanufactured" machines and I doubt anyone would want to pay full price at retail for those. It would cost them too much to be worth it, unless the trade-in also required that you pay like $150-$200 to get the newer machine. I'm sure some people would be willing to pay that, but I'll bet not enough to make it worth while. If you want the upgraded 360, I would recommend eBay for your current one, before the word gets out to the masses. You'll also be without a 360 while you wait....is it really worth it?

All that said, they should make the HDD adapter plug and play with any 2.5" HDD like the PS3.

As for Wii upgrades, I don't see anything special happening in the future besides the DVD addition that they've already talked about. It is super tiny and the CPU/GPU are way too underpowered to even think about anything higher than 480P. They'd have to basically design a new CPU and GPU which would have to produce much more heat and require larger heatsinks than the current console size would allow. Not to mention price, it would probably cost Nintendo and extra $100. It wouldn't look like or feel like a Wii anymore. The box would be the size of a 360.




RE: Exchanges
By koomo on 1/5/2007 2:05:07 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
What is Microsoft going to do with the old 360s?
What is Toyota going to do with my truck when the new version comes out next month? Waaaaa!!!!


Lets be reasonable here.
By TheRequiem on 1/6/2007 8:15:57 PM , Rating: 1
Microsoft has a policy to where they have chosen DVD-9 as the FINAL format for games, end of story. NO games will ever come to HD-DVD, end of story. Multiple disks could be tried however, but I doubt that. The X360 support high-compression to allow bigger games to be stored on smaller disks.

Microsoft has every right to produce a V2 model, if you don't like it then don't buy one, they are not doing anything wrong. An Xbox 360 is an Xbox 360, whats the difference if it has HDMi or not or if it has extra Hard Drive space? Then buy a goddamn HD add-on... they'll make those too.

Everyone needs to chill out, its not the end of the world, your XBOX 360 isn't ruined, jesus christ... I am a gaming enthusiasts with an HDMI enabled T.V. so I will probably buy a new one just because I can and I don't care for a measily little $400 to pay. $400 is not that bad and neither is $600, people are cheap and the bottom line, CHEAP. If you don't want to pay another $400, if you even have a reason to in the first place, then don't. Simple as that.

The Xbox 360 v2 or whatever it will be called if anything differently, will position Microsoft higher in the market and they will be more prepared to fight the console war with Sony, better sooner then later, so why does everyone care... just stfu!

Besides, you can still get 1080p and play every single game Microsoft releases so why let this bother you? I am all for newer technology and improvements, shouldn't everyone be? What the hell? A Gefore 8800 GTX will run you $650, so who cares about $400 or $600 for a console? I have a friend who just spent $7000 on a goddamn Voodoo PC Omen, think $600 is bad? Good grief... you people need to get lives.

This in truth is not that big of a deal, I bet that half of the people in this forum who are complaining don't even have a 1080p compatible HDMI connection so its just nonsense.

Microsoft WILL NEVER announce anything when its too early, otherwise they hurt their marketshare. I personally believe this is 100% the right thing Microsoft should do as it has been long awaited by many people and it shalld estroy Sony's upperhand advantage. Blu-ray is going to destroy HD-DVD in the long run anyways so its useless for MS to put HD-DVD internal drives and they know that. Don't believe me? Then WATCH!




RE: Lets be reasonable here.
By santa590 on 1/6/2007 8:46:33 PM , Rating: 2
Just to let you know, Blue Dragon uses 3 disks.


Been waiting for this
By FITCamaro on 1/5/2007 12:50:31 PM , Rating: 2
I've been waiting for the 65nm version of the processor before I bought a 360. Adding HDMI is nice too but I could care less if it was there. My 42" Samsung DLP is 720p. But it still looks great so for $900(originally $1600) I got a hell of a deal.




Banshee
By S3anister on 1/5/2007 2:46:41 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
to quiet the banshee-like DVD drive


WHAT ABOUT THE FANS IN THE 360?!?!

jeze. the back fan is like a billion times louder. it sounds like a jet engine (from far away) spinning down! tis loud.




w00t!
By BillyBatson on 1/5/2007 4:05:17 PM , Rating: 2
the 65 is nice to keep down costs and perhaps lower temps enough to quiet the whole thing. the HD upgrade is eh pretty useless unless you plan on downloading a lot of HD video content which i do not. The HDMI is the most important thing they are adding!!! I JUST bought my 360 4 days ago, but i bought it from costco (: so as soon as costco gets this new 360 i will take mine back and get this




Pulling a Nintendo?
By encryptkeeper on 1/5/2007 5:53:06 PM , Rating: 2
Guess this will shut up all the people that ding Nintendo for revising it's hardware.




By SilverTrine on 1/6/2007 2:27:57 PM , Rating: 2
Really whats the point of onboard HDMI otherwise. Theres no games out in native 1080i yet so why add HDMI since its main feature is to easily output 1080p?
1080p of course being the resolution that HD-DVD discs are encoded at.
Now that would rock 360v2 with HDMI and HD-DVD built in. I dont see why it cant happen, make it so Bill.
Kind of sucks for the current 360 owners getting shafted though, sorry guys, maybe Microsoft will give you a freebie.




Eesh
By ajfink on 1/6/2007 3:46:13 PM , Rating: 2
This is a massive tower of posts.

I enjoy the 360 I have now. When the new versions come out, and if I can afford it, I might buy a new one and give my old one to my brother. If I can't afford it, I might just buy a larger hard drive and stick with what I've got until I can afford it. HDMI isn't really that big of a deal. Component is just as good, it's the TVs that lack 1080p over component support. My current TV will only go to 1080i, so it wouldn't matter until I got a new TV, too, which is an even greater cost.

I'll probably end up with one someday, but there is no pressing need to go grab one now. Maybe I'll try a hard drive mod and make myself an 80gb 360 HDD.




New Video Card
By tigz1218 on 1/6/2007 5:38:27 PM , Rating: 2
They should also add a DX10 video card so we can get Crysis ^^




wtf?
By LinuxJackal on 1/5/07, Rating: -1
RE: wtf?
By TheOneYouKNow on 1/6/2007 12:08:09 AM , Rating: 4
I hope you are just making a bad joke. If not - you should never buy any sort of technology again. Because as technology advances this sort of thing will happen again and again.


RE: wtf?
By Woodchuck2000 on 1/7/2007 11:29:55 AM , Rating: 2
Seriously, I'm stunned by your post...

Do the gene pool a favour and neuter yourself while the human race still has a chance.


v.2 x360
By joenavy on 1/5/07, Rating: -1
RE: v.2 x360
By IceTron on 1/6/07, Rating: -1
HA HA HA! WHAT A RIP OFF!
By Hydrofirex on 1/5/07, Rating: -1
RE: HA HA HA! WHAT A RIP OFF!
By paesan on 1/5/07, Rating: -1
RE: HA HA HA! WHAT A RIP OFF!
By aftershoocks on 1/6/2007 7:46:24 PM , Rating: 2
I have to say, who really cares, I’ve got a launch version of the 360 and you know what, I run it on a 51cm with only AV inputs, lets all tell the truth and put our hands up if we own a HDMI enabled TV, bet there is not many of us here that do.

I couldn't care less that they have added HDMI, or die shrunk the processor, that is the way of the electronic industry, the product that you buy on the shelfs today, is obsolete tomorrow.


RE: HA HA HA! WHAT A RIP OFF!
By BillyBatson on 1/7/2007 12:52:42 AM , Rating: 2
WTF are you 2 talking about? how were we burned. this is not a performance upgrade for the 360! The HD upgrade is pretty useless unless you want to download a lot of HD video content from xbox live. The HDMI is a GREAT addon which is should have been there a year ago but it doesn't change performance of the system and if they released a cable (if possible) for hdmi to the current 360 video port int he back it would be the same damn thing. As for the cpu update, it isn't a performance one! all it is is a die shrink, do you know what that is? it means it is a smaller cpu that runs at the same speed as the old one! but using less power and putting out less heat. The current cpu in the PS3 is also 90nm and the 65nm cell cpu's are only now being tested and not int he PS3 yet.
This update does not make it any more or less attractive compared to the PS3 other than they will both have hdmi, YAY!
but like i said, no performance update. I am not a fanboy of one or the other, i had a ps3 and sold it, i now have a 360 because there are mroe games, i like the system and online performance better, and more of my friends have it so i can play with them.
To blindly put down a system without knowing anythign about it is just ignorant. go away.


RE: HA HA HA! WHAT A RIP OFF!
By Hydrofirex on 1/11/2007 5:12:25 PM , Rating: 2
Not being able to read someone else's post before responding is pretty ignorant too.

Yes, obviously HDMI is not a performance update, it's a feature (HD res) M$ said would not be included in the thing, and then backpedaled on (with issues), and then finally released a refresh. As far as the CPU goes, if they're just going to die shrink it and not upgrade it then I stand by my opinion even more; how can they expect to keep up?

I think the only sticking point is that probably 75-90% of consumers don't care about HD gaming (which is ironic considering that, that is the main way games are going to look better as we move into a mature next-gen gaming space.), so they probably don't care about an Xbox with HDMI or 1080p capability.

Fact: the ps2 has never had any kind of refresh except to make the thing smaller.
Fact: the ps2 is still a top seller competing this holiday season with the xbox360 and the Wii.
Fact: M$ has admitted that their original implementation was lacking enough to have to refresh the product after only 1 year. Even though they originally claimed the 360 would never support HD.
Fact: They're adding features and options that have been standard since day 1 with the ps3
Fact: this does not mean Sony is going to "win" the console war, or that the ps3 will even turn a profit. What it does mean, is that if you care about having a true next gen console, and if you care about HD gaming, you just ate it big time.

Finally, to blindly defend something without first reading the accusation and intelligently responding to it's contents based on market facts is almost as bad as calling someone ignorant for having an opinion.

HfX


RE: HA HA HA! WHAT A RIP OFF!
By kmmatney on 1/6/2007 6:36:46 PM , Rating: 2
RE: HA HA HA! WHAT A RIP OFF!
By ElJefe69 on 1/7/07, Rating: 0
m$ likes to screw you
By ElJefe69 on 1/5/07, Rating: -1
RE: m$ likes to screw you
By FITCamaro on 1/5/2007 3:19:14 PM , Rating: 4
And Sony fanboys love their overpriced crap. Quit your stupid fanboyism. And if a 65nm processor was available when the 360 was released, they would have put it in. But it wasn't. The Cell processor in the PS3 also will be getting a reduced production scale to reduce heat and power consumption. So Cell is in the same position.

And keep waiting for that PS3 price reduction. You might get it in two years if that. Sony is loosing so much money on the PS3 its not even funny. So don't expect them to take an even bigger hit. Especially when Bluray looses the format war as Sony is pretty much encouraging it to do.

And Microsoft's console doesn't need an HD-DVD drive in it. It's a games console. If you want the HD-DVD drive, you can buy it. And for far cheaper than a Blu-ray drive. The great thing about the MS HD-DVD drive is that you can use it with your PC and your Xbox360. Can you do that with the PS3s Blu-ray drive? No. You get to pay $500-1100 for a Blu-ray drive for your PC.

And HD-DVD, like Blu-ray is fully capable of 1080p. And you're right. 1080p is nothing but marketing. For Blu-ray and for HD-DVD. 95% of HDTVs sold aren't 1080p capable. In another 4-5 years when the next next-gen consoles are out, then it might matter because by then 1080p might be more mainstream. And 1080p gameplay != good gameplay. I'll take a game with a story and good gameplay in 480p over a game with nothing but good graphics in 1080p.


RE: m$ likes to screw you
By paesan on 1/5/2007 8:13:14 PM , Rating: 1
The PS3 has it all over the xbox 360. 1080p displays are the only way to go. Just go into any store and you will see that all the 720p displays are being highly discounted. I have a 1080p 61" tv and it blows away any resolution lower than that. This is why MS has updated the xbox 360 to dispaly 1080p.


RE: m$ likes to screw you
By the truth on 1/5/07, Rating: 0
RE: m$ likes to screw you
By ElJefe69 on 1/7/2007 1:21:13 AM , Rating: 1
M$ is all about posturing and being on top. A very typical, childish company. It did some stupid figuring/projecting on hd-dvd. It should have gave the finger to toshiba a long time ago. Who would want a hd-dvd in their comp tower vs a blu-ray? Who would want to think about not having the best next video/audio/storage device when spending 400 or so dollars?

everyone I have ever met hopes that blu-ray will win and then be affordable. Not a soul ever in a year that I have been taking orders for hd video players has anyone mentioned a slight desire for hd-dvd for the home or home computer. I sell electronics in NY, NY.

wii doesnt have dvd because dvd usage for movies wears out machines much faster, causes more dust to build up, more issues, and they might die before the next generation of the new ones comming in making for a bad name. ps2 had lots of people overusing their players for movies and gaming. think not? it's true. just a conjecture about wii that goes beyond claimed reasons. Might be a sign of projected failure rates.


"I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen

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