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The popular dictionary may consider changes as Wikipedia hit with an onslaught of pranking

How the mighty have fallen.  While perhaps arguably not the best encyclopedia in the world, Encyclopedia Britannica was the best selling.  However, the transition to internet-based resources has caused its sales to plummet.  And to add insult to injury it’s been outdone by Wikipedia in its attempts to provide online offerings.

However, Wikipedia is having its share of problems as well.  Its founder, Jimmy Wales has been the subject of much scrutiny over whether he made inappropriate edits and misspent nonprofit funds.  Further the site has had some embarrassing pranks played on it of late.  The entries for  Sens. Robert Byrd (D-W.Va.) and Edward Kennedy (D-Mass.) were changed to report their "death".  Janis Joplin's entry was also wildly changed multiple times, including by cast members on an episode of the TV show "30 Rock".

Mr. Wales spoke with Wired recently about the problems, and said that the pranks should be a wake-up call for Wikipedia and its struggling rival, Encyclopedia Britannica.  He writes, "This nonsense would have been 100 percent prevented by Flagged Revisions. It could also have been prevented by protection or semi-protection, but this is a prime example of why we don't want to protect or semi-protect articles -- this was a breaking news story and we want people to be able to participate (so protection is out) and even to participate in good faith for the first time ever (so semi-protection is out)."

For Wikipedia, while gaining fresh attention this whole conflict is old news.  It has long struggled with such prankery, and has worked closely with its community to overcome it without adopting harsh protections.  The site uses Germany as a proving ground for its flagged revision technology.

Flagged revisions would only be applied to certain "high risk" entries.  The key reason would be that with less high profile entries, the review process for the small subset of edits that got flagged for editorial attention might take up to a week to review.  While supporting the use of such flagging, currently undergoing testing by Wikipedia, Jim Wales says he doesn't want to restrict users' participation via protections.  He states, "I am not advocating for that at all.  In fact, I am advocating for opening up entries that have been protected for years."

He points out that the quick fixes to the malicious edits are evidence of the strength of community editing, not a weakness.
Current polls suggest 60 percent of Wikipedia users and contributors support the idea of flagging certain content for editorial supervision.  Wikipedia contributor Ned Scott is among these, but is upset by Mr. Wales' comments on the Encyclopedia Britannica problems. 

He states, "I really like the idea of flagged revisions, and I'm sure that discussion has spread somewhere else. However, I wanted to comment here about Jimbo's (Jim Wales') original post where he uses the Post's article as an example of something that went wrong: Are you nuts?  It took less than five minutes for the vandalism to be removed, and that's damn impressive. Instead of being proud of your users you instead take it as an opportunity to push for flagged revisions."

While Wikipedia and Encyclopedia Britannica are mulling the public image impact of changing their editing systems, Wikipedia, which recently celebrated its millionth article, is in the process of cooking up additional new ways to simplify the editing process.  It received $6M USD in funding to help with this, and to improve efforts to monitor some content.



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Corrections
By tpanelas on 1/28/2009 3:19:59 PM , Rating: 2
You appear to have revised the article to get at least part of the story right. Just so it’s perfectly clear: the premature deaths of Kennedy and Byrd happened on Wikipedia, not Britannica, as you reported earlier.

I don’t think Britannica was ever been the world’s best-selling encyclopedia. Got a source for that?

Your point about Wikipedia’s millionth article is odd. You point to an article that’s a few years old. I think they’re now over two million.

As for the Nature comparison of Britannica and Wikipedia, it was garbage:

http://tinyurl.com/bnlcbm

http://tinyurl.com/gwo7l

http://tinyurl.com/gwo7l

The magazine set out to promote Wikipedia (see their article, along with associated editorial and podcast in their entirety if you have any doubt), and they concocted a “study” that—mirabile ductu—did just that.

As for your headline, "Britannica Ponders Flagging," I have no idea what that refers to, nor is it clear what connection there is between whatever we may be contemplating and what happened at Wikipedia with the two senators.

Tom at Britannica




RE: Corrections
By tpanelas on 1/28/2009 3:36:05 PM , Rating: 2
I should make it clear that the points in my earlier post about Nature are a response to other commenters here, not the article itself.

Tom at Britannica


RE: Corrections
By Motoman on 1/28/2009 8:39:36 PM , Rating: 1
...I don't know if this is actually an EB representative or whatever...

...but I do find it hilarious that the article has now been fixed to show that it was Wikipedia all along that had these problems, not EB.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/...

quote:
While Kennedy and Byrd's entries were fixed within minutes, Seigenthaler's was wrong for months.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/20...

Wikipedia is shit. Get over it.


RE: Corrections
By tpanelas on 1/28/2009 10:20:16 PM , Rating: 2
I am an EB representative, yes.

Tom at Britannica


Wiki vs Britannica
By nah on 1/27/2009 12:02:49 PM , Rating: 3
I grew up on EB--but it's sad to say that nowadays for most stuff I look up wiki--as for whether its reliable-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4530930.stm

quote:
n order to test its reliability, Nature conducted a peer review of scientific entries on Wikipedia and the well-established Encyclopedia Britannica. The reviewers were asked to check for errors, but were not told about the source of the information. "Only eight serious errors, such as misinterpretations of important concepts, were detected in the pairs of articles reviewed, four from each encyclopedia," reported Nature. "But reviewers also found many factual errors, omissions or misleading statements: 162 and 123 in Wikipedia and Britannica, respectively."




Entire article is completely wrong.
By ipay on 1/28/2009 12:46:21 PM , Rating: 1
This entire article is garbage. It was pages on Wikipedia that have had bogus deaths added, not Encyclopedia Britannica at all.

Also, 1) it's an encyclopedia, not a "popular dictionary", and 2) you're an idiot.

HTH HAND KTHXBYE.




Here's a wacky idea...
By Motoman on 1/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: Here's a wacky idea...
By SlipDizzy on 1/27/2009 11:12:55 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
Wikipedia, on the other hand, is the biggest joke in cyberspace, and the most epic fail ever endeavored by man.


I'd say its correct to say that Wikipedia is not a source that should be cited or used for actual research, but to call it the biggest joke in cyberspace is wildly incorrect. Also, to say its the most epic fail ever is just ignorant.


RE: Here's a wacky idea...
By Motoman on 1/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: Here's a wacky idea...
By invidious on 1/27/2009 1:21:33 PM , Rating: 3
You cant defend your claim that wikipedia is a joke simply on the grounds that you used hyperbole. Wikipedia isn't intented to do what you want it to do, that does not reflect at all on the site, only on you. The fact that it is so widely used proves its worth, and your post here proves your ignorance.


RE: Here's a wacky idea...
By Motoman on 1/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: Here's a wacky idea...
By Motoman on 1/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: Here's a wacky idea...
By mindless1 on 1/27/2009 4:27:22 PM , Rating: 3
The fact that it is so widely used only goes to show that mankind has been lulled into a sense of trust for anything they read. I'd imagine it's because in the past the general public did not have the degree of authorship they do today, there is a false presumption someone will have both altruistic goals, AND the expertise to be fit (in an objective sense rather than subjective) to author, or edit, before doing so. Obviously this is not the case, most authorities on topics tend to spend their time on that topic, not on writing for a wiki.

A secondary problem is our rate of cultural advances, people are trying to memorize words instead of thinking logically and critically about what they are reading. Urban myths run rampant thanks to the internet, including Wikipedia.


RE: Here's a wacky idea...
By Triple Omega on 1/28/2009 8:51:01 AM , Rating: 2
And that's why reference-links and "additional reading" links are such an important part of wikipedia. It is also the reason why wikipedia has the "citation needed" flags. Wikimedia is doing everything in it's power to make sure wikipedia articles are as correct as possible as are most of it's contributors.

As for authorities not contributing to wikipedia, that's just not true. I've heard many students say that there professor not only refered to wikipedia during his or her teachings, but also contributed. So unless university professors are not enough of an authority for you, they most certainly do write for wikipedia.


RE: Here's a wacky idea...
By mindless1 on 1/29/2009 11:16:44 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, university professors are not necessarily an authority. Some of mine were dumb as a box of rocks, they did well to parrot what they memorized, even though they were repeating same thing over and over.

The authority is the one who actually does the work and research, not as some project but as their profession (Or extreme passion until the point where other professionals refer to their work).

The "additional reading" should be taken in context as ONLY a support for the text written. If that text is biased or technically incorrect, what those links will give you is a lopsided or misinformed support, a pseudo-scientific overview.

The important factor lacking is screening and a forum for real peer (not random reader, peers in the same profession) review. To have articles limited to those who are held competent in that topic.

Anyone, given enough motivation, can BS their way through a topic and provide mere "links" to references of what they claim. Surely you realize that just about anything can be backed up with dubious sources, given the vast amount of info out there today.

The above in no way suggests that all wiki articles have this problem, rather the problem is the random nature of which articles are technically correct and which are not. It is a lottery but some refuse to accept that. Frankly you are better off getting sources from almost anywhere else, becoming fully informed on a topic and ONLY then, reading something on wiki to evaluate what was written while already having a reasonable grasp of the facts within which to filter what you'll read.

Remember the old saying, always take what you read on the web with a grain of salt. (because it's true).


RE: Here's a wacky idea...
By nixoofta on 1/27/2009 2:26:00 PM , Rating: 5
RE: Here's a wacky idea...
By derwin on 1/28/2009 8:35:56 AM , Rating: 2
I wish you could get a 6.


RE: Here's a wacky idea...
By crimson117 on 1/27/2009 12:11:56 PM , Rating: 5
Wikipedia itself must not be cited, but hopefully the Wikipedia article provides citations to well respected and citeable source.

Wikipedia can be great as a jumping off point for research and learning.


RE: Here's a wacky idea...
By Dreifort on 1/27/2009 4:39:59 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Wikipedia can be great as a jumping off point for research and learning.


The same could be said for...DailyTech? =D

As for Wikipedaling...I agree to some extent it is not a reliable source, but is a great starting point to determine the fact/fiction for yourself. It's a great topic starter, but too much bias for my taste is present in such a unique and awesome tool. In fact, there are thousands of websites based of Wiki's platform (code). That is the real value with Wiki is the platform it mainstreamed.


RE: Here's a wacky idea...
By Moishe on 1/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: Here's a wacky idea...
By theslug on 1/27/2009 12:14:15 PM , Rating: 5
Wrong. Wikipedia is more often correct than not, and if something is incorrect it is typically fixed quickly. Of course teachers don't allow it as a source, because it's not a source! It's a consolidation of info from different places. Anyone doing research would cite those sources that the Wikipedia article links to, not Wikipedia itself.

Try again.


RE: Here's a wacky idea...
By mindless1 on 1/27/2009 4:35:11 PM , Rating: 2
Actually, more often correct may mean something like 80% of the info in an article, and that the author did not objectively remove bias, did not have active editorial review by someone qualified to do so.

We could idealize what wiki could be, or see it for what it is... a place where anything controversial does not typically have all aspects of the controversy covered, instead far far too often it is a one sided story by whoever edited it last.

As for citing other sources, certainly it's a step in the right direction, but I think we both know it is not effective. Anything is "a consolidation of info from different places", including the very professors and experts in any field of study. Wiki is a bit less than that once you open up authorship to those not accredited in the respective field.

It's not enough to be more often correct than not, and lots of topics are not fixed quickly, have not been fixed since their first draft, let alone after some activity by parties disputing any part of an article.


RE: Here's a wacky idea...
By ghost101 on 1/27/2009 12:36:06 PM , Rating: 3
Your college teachers would allow Encyclopedia Brittanica as a source? Most of the stuff in it is no where near good enough for college. My college teachers certainly wouldnt trust some namelesss "expert" who wrote the Brittanica article without sources.

Wikipedia on the other hand, cites numerous sources e.g. papers, journals, articles etc. Look at scientific articles and you'll realise that they have clearly been written by graduate students, teachers, experts etc.

Wikipedia is one of the greatest innovations. Before wikipedia you used the internet and got information from obscure websites and articles. You don't know what bias it may contain, what political slants there are and whether if its even correct.

Wikipedia collates information out there are puts it up for peer review. It attempts to remove bias as well as it can and usually contains the latest information.


RE: Here's a wacky idea...
By mindless1 on 1/27/2009 4:46:12 PM , Rating: 2
Then your college professors aren't spoken for, since there are sources, and because you are not them, you cannot simply speak for them. Fact is, most people quite clearly state the opposite, wiki is not college level material fit for use as a source.

In some cases, wiki can point you to another source, in that sense it is useful providing you completely forget anything read on a wiki and only rely on the sources, especially resisting the urge to use more than a few wiki sources since that is going to taint your search for information - since any author with any misconceptions or bias will seek out sources to support that.

Professionals writing for an encyclopedia are held to standards, of professionalism and research themselves. On wiki, you may indeed have some great articles but the great ones do not prop up those not so great!

Anyone can back something they wrote through deliberation for a source, just look at global warming if you'd like an example. A professional writer interested only in unbiased objectivism, will seek to present both (or all) sides. That is not happening at nearly the rate it should on wiki.

Before wiki you used the internet and realized you were reading what the average joe had to write. Now you're doing the same, it's just all in one place.

Looking at scientific articles, you might think they were written by a graduate student, but are they all 100% right? Do they have the needed review and the time spend that someone writing for pay can afford to spend? No.

If you are using wiki for college level work, you should fail the course. College is about finding the answers yourself instead of the ghetto cliff notes version where whatever a random joe wrote is taken as truth, no matter how much you'd desperately like the lazy way out of doing the research yourself.

There are some good articles on wiki, but it cannot be trusted in general because of the other articles, that variability.


RE: Here's a wacky idea...
By ghost101 on 1/29/2009 1:44:42 PM , Rating: 2
My point was he implied that EB was acceptable as a source. I mentioned that wikipedia cites is sources which you can then cite. I never said college professors would accept wikipedia as a source.


RE: Here's a wacky idea...
By mindless1 on 1/29/2009 11:09:34 PM , Rating: 2
Then we're back to the central issue that at least EB pays for some research to validate, while anyone can write on wiki for less than noble reasons, or edit something that started out great, w/noble reasons, but degraded to the point where the original author said fvck it, I'm not battling children to keep this accurate because kids have more free time than I do.


RE: Here's a wacky idea...
By aegisofrime on 1/27/2009 11:25:41 AM , Rating: 2
Wikipedia isn't that bad. While it's credibility and correctness is of course questionable, to me it serves as a good introduction to topics that I'm not familiar with. Look up an article, and go on from there. The citations help with this aspect as well.

In any case, while we are on this topic, there's an article from 2005 about the accuracy of wikipedia vs that of EB.

Here : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4530930.stm


RE: Here's a wacky idea...
By nafhan on 1/27/2009 11:26:07 AM , Rating: 5
Wikipedia should never be cited as a primary source.

It does have value in two areas.

1. It's a great place to find out about something you don't know a whole lot about. It's not 100% accurate, but neither is EB.

2. It can also be an excellent place to find primary sources if you are researching something. At the bottom of the page, there is a section called "references". Most of the links in the references section go to newspapers, etc. that most college professors would accept as sources.


RE: Here's a wacky idea...
By lagomorpha on 1/27/2009 11:51:22 AM , Rating: 2
I lolled at the idea of Britannica being "essentially 100% correct encyclopedia" or any sort of "benchmark for authoritative knowledge". No general encyclopedia should be used as a primary reference on any research beyond middle-school.

You must have a short memory, there was a study not that long ago that suggested that wikipedia is as good as Britannica (or more usefully Britannica is as bad as wikipedia).

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v438/n7070/fu...

http://news.cnet.com/Study-Wikipedia-as-accurate-a...


RE: Here's a wacky idea...
By alphadog on 1/27/2009 5:05:57 PM , Rating: 2
Most "Wiki Vs EB" studies are hopelessly faulty. Usually they pick something like a handful of topic and compare error rates. Statistically meaningless...


RE: Here's a wacky idea...
By TimberJon on 1/27/2009 11:52:01 AM , Rating: 2
You're an Epic Fail and your Fail cast failed.

Wikipedia is the best source for Most subjects. And you'd have to have been born an epic fail by epic failures to not notice the red flags and titles at the tops of articles that are contested.

If the article is on a popular subject, but it is not contested or complained about then those thousands of people who are probably veterans if not experts in their fields agree with the article and don't have issue with it.

Personally I never trust any one article. You'd have to be an epic top-of-your-class fail to not cross reference what you read there with other data elsewhere. Wikipedia is a great place to start to get a comprehensive read on something.

Thanks for your opinion but it failed.


RE: Here's a wacky idea...
By theslug on 1/27/2009 12:11:13 PM , Rating: 2
Win.

And to add to this, anyone with half a brain can see that Wikipedia is simply a consolidation of information, not a primary source. Most articles have links at the bottom as to where the info comes from.

Wikipedia is an excellent resource.


RE: Here's a wacky idea...
By Motoman on 1/27/2009 12:22:03 PM , Rating: 2
...you're fundamentally missing the point. You can't trust any Wikipedia article because, frankly, you don't know if anyone who knows anything has actually reviewed that particular article to "flag" it.

...and what kind of retard references to a source where things have to be flagged in the first place? When you have a choice of going to a guaranteed source of authoritative knowledge, vs. looking at something that someone who may or may not be on the level has posted and hope that the fact it isn't flagged is due to it's veracity, rather than random chance of someone qualified just not having looked at it yet, why the eff would you even consider looking at the latter?

Wiki is a social experiment...great, I get it. It's ridiculously unreliable, and there are vastly better sources of information on the web that are infinitely more credible and take no more effort to use.

As for your wit, surely I have been mortally wounded by your searing lexicon of...something. Oh, the humanity.


RE: Here's a wacky idea...
By Motoman on 1/27/2009 1:18:41 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
and what kind of retard references to a source where things have to be flagged in the first place?


Sorry...I meant "refers" to rather than "references to." At the very least, most people are agreeing they would never use Wikipedia as a reference.

My point becomes why bother even looking when you have to wonder whether or not the article you're reading has been reviewed by someone knowledgable?

Wikipedia articles are essentially created and evolved by a democratic process. Power to the people, hurray. However, truth is not determined by a democratic process...


RE: Here's a wacky idea...
By mindless1 on 1/27/2009 4:49:24 PM , Rating: 2
but the other sources do take more effort to use, which is why some take the lazy way out seeking to ignore wiki's faults because it's a one-stop convenience store for a topic. Not that a general encyclopedia is substantially better, but more consistently so in most cases.


RE: Here's a wacky idea...
By elessar1 on 1/27/2009 2:12:45 PM , Rating: 2
If you are able to do better than wikipedia...please do so...

and remember... A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man."


RE: Here's a wacky idea...
By Motoman on 1/27/2009 2:35:57 PM , Rating: 2
I am knowledgable in an encyclopedic way in very few subjects. While for a small number of articles I could do a good job, I have no such capabilty to do a whole encyclopedia, and nowhere did I allude to such.

However, I do know many other authoritative sources of information that are better than Wikipedia. EB is one of them.


RE: Here's a wacky idea...
By mindless1 on 1/27/2009 4:57:02 PM , Rating: 2
Many would say that by simply not writing an article, you're doing better than someone disseminating fiction through many of wiki's articles.

and remember... "better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an idiot, than to open it and remove all doubt". Same goes for a pen or keyboard, people should refrain from trying to take an authoritarian position just because they feel wiki gives them an opportunity to do so.

Give wiki a credential verification system cross-referencing major universities or other bodies needed to establish credibility, otherwise everyone can do better than wikipedia, by simply realizing they need those same standards themselves. Anyone can take bits and pieces of information from a source and twist it, instead of taking the source as a whole.


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