quote: Creative and sound quality in the same sentence. Amazing.
quote: Ok so maybe it shouldn't be sound quality but rather good sound experience.
quote: So basically, if the post had said something else, my reply would have been wrong! Great!
quote: op amp is an operational amplifier, it can do what its told.
quote: I wont even bother with your arguments because you know nothing about how this audio stack works or what it does.
quote: I never said MS made sound cards. point to me where I said that?
if not all on-board solutions.
Including this one from M$.
quote: I said M$ now rendered sound cards worthless, and nothing more then Digital to Analog convertors.
quote: all the processing is done by windows, and the hardware does nothing. Read up about the new stack and you'll find out.
quote: I was reading about this for months now, even before D-tech decided to do a MS press release about it.
if not all on-board solutions.
Including this one from M$.
English grammer dude. Might want to learn it.
quote: but then I plugged in my audigy 2. Its like night at day. things you didn't hear in games are all of a sudden there.
quote: Audigy 2 is technically a lousy card compared to real soundcards from Esi Juli@, EMU or M-audio.
quote: That's only because of the propriety EAX.
quote: It has nothing to do with the actual hardware.
quote: its hard to. to agree with me, even though i'm ussually right most of the time ;-)
quote: people are Underestimating the amount of power it actually takes to process sound correctly.
quote: The point is not to have 100fps peak, its to make sure your min does not go below say 60fps. and thats when you'll love the fact you have a sound card, so you get that extra 10-20% power for everything else.
quote: Process how? Do you mean mix, resample , level? Thats absolutely negligible. Can be done in real time on an ARM7TDMI at 30MHz.
quote: Not for the fun of it, but rather for DSP functions like the resampler. Resampling can be very slow
quote: Your statement is so vague it doesn't even mean anything.
quote: And its been shown before that its been more then a fraction of cpu power to process sound. yes maybe when your playing an mp3, but when doing positional 3d audio, the chunk will be bigger.
quote: Do you mean positional audio? That can be slower.
quote: Somthing's wrong with either of these two sentences, and it ain't the last one.
There is no limit to possible resampling "quality"/"preciseness" but it requires more calculatins the better you want it to be.
quote: (Guess who I'm quoting)
quote: You seem to come to the conclusion that he most likely meant positional audio. Think I've made my point.
quote: Actually, I believe they're both right. Note the "can" in the second one.
quote: Audio recording apps need hardware processing because the delay of software completely screws up any attempt.
quote: And while they made sound better for 95% of pc users. Those 95% DID NOT CARE BEFORE, because if they cared they would have gotten a sound card.
quote: But hell there the only ones left.
quote: He doesn't care about gaming, and from his responses to my questions there M$ really didnt care about gaming
quote: so either your fan club is larger than you thought, or the community at large hates you (or maybe I'm saying the same thing twice)
quote: I run high end mathematical programs on my computer
quote: 1 - 2% of CPU can mean 1 - 2 hours of saved time.
quote: Just because it doesn't affect you doesn't mean you have to be naive about other people.
quote: I'm a student, I run a single computer, I don't have money for more. I use my computers for gaming, home entertainment, high definition content, downloading server, office use and high end mathematical content.
quote: Somehow I'm not offended by your statement, you're the one who feels it is needed to randomly attack someone's post with having no clue of their situation, I'd please like to ask people again to stop being so naive and think everyone uses a computer exactly the same as them.
quote: Mathematical programs are not affected by this.
quote: Given they dosn't use sound that would be true.
But lets say he likes to run winamp at the same time. Probably not. But I think his real point is that every percentage is important, generally speaking.
quote: So it would be great if this software sound thing could be turned off, allowing you to use hardware acceleration if you like. "That's a security risk..."(likely Microsoft argument), so is bungee-jumping. More freedome of choice please.
quote: "Sound" is still done by the sound hardware,
quote: no, actually sound comes from the speakers...
quote: real point beeing you doesn't seem to know what you're talking about.
quote: "unless you think Vista lets you play sound without a jack"
quote: Well since you keep comming up with creative ways to interpret other people's post I guess it takes a lot of imaginative power to decode the purpose of your own ones too. Who knows, maybe you're a creative genious ahead of your time, so no one else can understand why you posted the original message in the first place. After all it contributed greatly to the original discussion, supposedly.
quote: And simply becuse I'm too short tempered when it comes to dealing with people like you, I end up posting this kind of crap too. It's all very sad... What? I should stop responding to this crap? Yeah, I suppose so, given that I know I shouldn't. Guess you could call me an idiot... Well your going to have to live with the fact that this world is full of idiots. We do make a great team now don't we?
quote: You shouldn't be getting emotional over posts about sound cards. Seriously. Its not worth it.
quote: Who cares? Most everyone has more CPU "power" available anyway
quote: Probably... but aside from the fact that high quality surround sound calculation takes more processingpower than some people here think maby you should ask yourself why people turn of services to get that little extra.
quote: Or why they by that high-end memmory for twice the price. Or why they overclock... ect. Besides a couple of years from now when software has become ever more demanding you won't have extra CPU "power" at your desposal unless you've upgraded your hardware.
quote: Saying, stuff like that is just beeing ignorant, same as "I'm rich anyway, I don't care what it cost's me." The not-so-rich people usually hate it when a rich dude says something like that.
quote: Unless you didn't know: Take the X-Fi: it has a processing power roughly equivalen to 2.4Ghz P4. I know the P4 isn't the most efficint cpu, but that would still be alot more than what you call "a tiny fraction" of your cpu-power
quote: That you do not in any average case but still, point is you could, and shold, aka. if game developers implemented best they could in the future, and evolution usually goes forward. I could easily max out the Audigy2 cards capability (much slower, but still). I am ofcourse assuming Creative didn't make the large expensive X-fi die just for the fun of it.
quote: The xfi is almost (entirely?) integrer
quote: So they're off by a factor of 4
quote: Well it seems I was wrong about the MIPS, although I'm sure creative said that somewhere (probably the 533FSB P4 btw.)
quote: The fact that it's a DSP, it's not very relevant to my point as I wasn't trying to brag about the X-fi's capabilities in my previous post, what is relevant is the delivered performance. We wouldn't want the cpu to do the gpu's jobb, because the gpu is much much more optimized for what it does; we don't want the cpu to do soundprocessing, same reason. I was just trying to state what cpu power you would need if you replaced the optimized-for-soundprocessing soundcard with a not-optimized-for-soundprocessing cpu. I'll return to this subject soon.
quote: Ehh... nope. try the opposite. "The effects engine in previous generations of audio processors was only limited to fixed-point data types...//...The [x-fi] DSP also supports fixed point computation..."//extract from Creative.
quote: So more than 1100 it is, unless you where refering to the DSP only perhaps. "[Our DSP] can perform 1,200 MIPs or 1,200 MFLOPs (not counting any address calculations or data moving)."//Creative
quote: "When properly performed, the computational errors involved in sample rate conversion are much smaller than the dither noise of the original signal, and is thus completely transparent to the listener."
quote: The [x-fi] DSP also supports fixed point computation
quote: A general purpose CPU like the P4 will DESTROY a DSP for this sort of thing, on a MIPS per MIPS basis
quote: Of course. In fact, I use a resampler myself, and don't mind. My point was that its unfair to count MIPS that are dedicated to the resampler, simply because anyone who doesn't resample doesn't get to use them.
quote: So now ALL sound cards made for vista will support things only on add-on cards previously. Also games will be programmed to include this now all-inclusive support.
quote: Great, why not set a standard for graphics as well
quote: lets face it: It's not going to happen becase customization is what PC's are about. For everything else it's probably cheaper and easier to go for console.
quote: Great, why not set a standard for graphics as well, ...and while we're at it we'll just throw out support for high-end graphics-cards.