backtop


Print 58 comment(s) - last by YashBudini.. on Sep 1 at 11:28 PM

As companies brace for a flood of retirements, they anticipate a shortage of workers across the country.

A growing demand for workers trained in science, technology, engineering and mathematics (STEM) in the U.S. has companies looking for alternative ways to secure their work forces. 

Nearly 30 percent of industry workers are 50 to 59 years old.  An anticipated wave of retirements in those industries has companies concerned about finding and retaining qualified workers in the U.S.  

Some businesses are taking measures to increase their efforts by partnering with schools, calling for higher national education standards, and sponsoring more student competitions, according to
Reuters and a special report from Aviation Week

"It's not so much that the source of supply is not there,"  said the CEO of avionics maker Rockwell Collins Inc., Clay Jones. "It's that the source of supply in the United States may not be there."

Chief Executive of Raytheon Co, William Swanson said that the shortage could pose a national security danger because it can limit the ability of the United States to be innovative and compete on the world stage.

"If we can work on retention and we can work on the excitement of STEM or engineering, then we can change the equation," said Swanson.

And while many engineering jobs in these fields are only open to U.S. citizens because of security requirements, some aerospace and defense companies say they will recruit more workers from outside of the states recruiting in STEM-strong countries like China and India if necessary.

"I have a lot of positions, but a lot of times I may not be able to fill them because I don't have U.S. citizens," said Executive Director of Career Services at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, Lisa Kollar.   

According to the
Aviation Week report, five percent of U.S. bachelor's degrees are in engineering, compared with 20 percent in Asia.

The report found that, 19 percent of employees among companies with more than 100,000 workers are now at retirement age. That figure is expected to jump to more than 30 percent in 2012 and nearly 40 percent by 2014.



Comments     Threshold


This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled

Not enough geeks.
By magneticfield on 8/19/2010 6:56:27 AM , Rating: 2
I'm surprised to read this, after all these lay-offs including in the IT industry.

I wonder what kind of jobs do young people seek nowadays most.




RE: Not enough geeks.
By stimudent on 8/19/2010 7:15:18 AM , Rating: 2
Not too long ago, if you were born in America, you need not apply to IT and Engineering jobs because you cost too much - overpaid.


RE: Not enough geeks.
By marvdmartian on 8/19/2010 8:39:01 AM , Rating: 2
Something that requires mad texting skills, as well as Tweeting and video game playing, I would imagine.

With the atrocious language (reading/writing) skills that today's youth suffers from, due to their "text speak" (for the most part), I'd be amazed if many of them can even get admitted to an engineering program at a university.

I saw one young lady, who started a thread over on a forum I frequent, and talked about wanting to be a journalist...... and yet, her entire post was almost incoherent in it's "text speak", with incorrect spelling and grammar, and an abosolute lack of punctuation.

More and more, that seems to be the norm these days. **SIGH**


RE: Not enough geeks.
By Suntan on 8/19/2010 9:18:31 AM , Rating: 4
Five commas in a sentence complaining about the writing quality of another person...

-Suntan


RE: Not enough geeks.
By Maiyr on 8/20/2010 2:28:52 PM , Rating: 2
Try as I might I can't find any sentence with 5 commas. Could you please point it out to me ?

Thanks,

Maiyr


RE: Not enough geeks.
By Treckin on 8/20/2010 11:01:25 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I saw one young lady, who started a thread over on a forum I frequent, and talked about wanting to be a journalist...... and yet, her entire post was almost incoherent in it's "text speak", with incorrect spelling and grammar, and an abosolute lack of punctuation.


I don't think the OP meant to use the ellipsis above as a sentence ending mark, given his or her lack of capitalization in the proceeding clause. Also, sentences are not historically (think Oxford rules) begun with 'and,' further implicating the authors dis-intent to form two separate sentences.

Thus, when read as one contiguous sentence, it appears to contain 5 commas.


RE: Not enough geeks.
By nafhan on 8/19/2010 9:27:05 AM , Rating: 2
There's always been a lot of people with terrible grammar and spelling. We just see it these days. In the past, if you couldn't write, you didn't. On top of that, fast written communication does not lend itself to double checking.


RE: Not enough geeks.
By PaterPelligrino on 8/19/2010 10:22:07 AM , Rating: 3
Today's young people would be smart to learn Mandarin - there will always be jobs flippin burgers in Beijing.

The Chinese want to bring us to our knees, all they have to do is take back all their grad students. Seems like every time I come across a report detailing the work of some university science team, the only American name on the list of researchers - if there is one - is the prof, who's probably an older guy from the last generation of Americans who studied science; all the rest are Chen's, Li's and Kim's (the odd Korean).

Remember this is the country where almost half the population thinks Jesus is coming back some time in the next 50 years to carry their righteous butts off to heaven - so what's the point of studying math?

Speaking of math: take note of those annual surveys of the math competence of high-school students from various countries, in which Americans always place dead last. That says it all, doesn't it?


RE: Not enough geeks.
By TerranMagistrate on 8/19/2010 11:01:09 AM , Rating: 4
quote:
Remember this is the country where almost half the population thinks Jesus is coming back some time in the next 50 years to carry their righteous butts off to heaven - so what's the point of studying math?


Somehow I have a feeling this was also the case (possibly even moreso) 50 years ago when the United States was churning out more top-tier STEM graduates than just about all other countries combined. What do you think?


RE: Not enough geeks.
By PaterPelligrino on 8/19/2010 11:47:45 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
Somehow I have a feeling this was also the case (possibly even more so) 50 years ago when the United States was churning out more top-tier STEM graduates than just about all other countries combined. What do you think?


That's an interesting question. 50 years ago is a bit beyond me, but I do remember the 70's very well, and it seems to me that religion wasn't the hot topic then that it is now - at least in the New England city I grew up in. In fact, I was barely aware of religion then. Certainly American Christianity wasn't nearly as militantly anti-science as it is now.

Also I don't remember crazies like Jerry Falwell claiming things like Hurricane Katrina was God punishing New Orleans for the Mardi Gras. And I have read many references in the contemporary press about how in the last 20 years America has been experiencing another of it's "great religious revivals".

Nor when I was young, did the Christian Fundamentalists have nearly as much political influence as they do now. But this is just my personal take on the matter.


RE: Not enough geeks.
By RU482 on 8/20/2010 11:01:56 AM , Rating: 2
Those people turn into Marketing Majors


RE: Not enough geeks.
By danrien on 8/30/2010 10:52:31 AM , Rating: 2
Actually, the situation is opposite to what you assume it to be:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7910075.stm


RE: Not enough geeks.
By arazok on 8/19/2010 8:41:09 AM , Rating: 2
Is it that bad in the US for IT workers? Here in Canada it’s just as easy to find IT work as ever.


RE: Not enough geeks.
By SilverHair on 8/19/2010 12:40:21 PM , Rating: 3
It is hard to break into the IT field in the US. A basic entry-level position requires 2-5 years experience. Having a fresh diploma/certificate means little, until you get the experience. It is the classic catch 22, can not get the experience without a job, can not get the job without experience.


RE: Not enough geeks.
By Noliving on 8/19/2010 11:13:18 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
It is hard to break into the IT field in the US. A basic entry-level position requires 2-5 years experience. Having a fresh diploma/certificate means little, until you get the experience. It is the classic catch 22, can not get the experience without a job, can not get the job without experience.


Yes and how do they get that experience? By doing Internships or by doing volunteer IT work at a library maintaining their databases.

Basically is this if you can get an Internship you should be fine with breaking into the IT field.


RE: Not enough geeks.
By YashBudini on 9/1/2010 10:15:01 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
By doing Internships or by doing volunteer IT work at a library maintaining their databases.


Baloney.

First there aren't any internships these days. Second real companies want to see experience with real SDLC and real deadlines, not some laid back library work.


RE: Not enough geeks.
By fatedtodie on 8/20/2010 5:53:19 AM , Rating: 2
I didn't have a hard time getting my first tech job and it wasn't entry level. I had no certs and very little "on paper" experience. The way to get an IT job is, know your stuff, have a nice resume, don't dress like a schmuck for an interview, and that's about it.

On the other hand, why should someone with a "piece of paper" like a degree or a cert be able to compete at all against me when I have 7+ years of experience? Heck even back when I only had 2-5 why should someone with the degree or cert be able to compete? I could not only demonstrate I knew HOW to do it, but prove I HAVE done it. A work history says "this person is more than just talk and they held down a job long enough to prove they know what they were doing.

You want a few pieces of paper that are better than a degree or cert? Do the work, and get people to write up a recommendation. A few nice recommendations and at least one of them as a reference, and that acts like you "experience".

(Another little hint if you didn't know it, The job postings that say they want 2-5 yrs experience are to weed out losers, if you interview anyway and can prove you know what you are doing, you still get the job.)

I wish you luck in your job searches, but really if you quit that easy in the "finding a job" phase I wouldn't want you to be part of any team I am on, because you would quit on a project that was ... "too hard".


RE: Not enough geeks.
By Smilin on 8/19/2010 3:48:14 PM , Rating: 2
The article discusses a shortage of workers so obviously if you are a "seller" you'll be fine.

Did you read it?


RE: Not enough geeks.
By randomly on 8/19/2010 9:10:37 AM , Rating: 5
They are talking about Science and Engineering, the people who create and design new products and discover new things.

There is little need for IT people if you have no products that sell.


RE: Not enough geeks.
By theapparition on 8/19/2010 11:50:24 AM , Rating: 5
I was going to say the same thing. No major offence intended to IT pros, but being a computer jock does not put you at a technical compentancy level, much less an engineer or scientist.

It takes training and skill to be a good IT professional, but it also takes training and skill to be a good car mechanic or forklift operator.


RE: Not enough geeks.
By Ammohunt on 8/19/10, Rating: 0
RE: Not enough geeks.
By WinstonSmith on 8/19/2010 11:19:03 AM , Rating: 5
Just another ploy to allow more H1B and L1 visas and undercut wages in tech specialties. When will people learn from history, recent history at that?


RE: Not enough geeks.
By LyCannon on 8/20/2010 3:07:36 AM , Rating: 2
STEM jobs are not just IT jobs...

Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics...

The country has a shortage of electrical and mechanical engineers...


what a load
By stilltrying on 8/19/2010 8:26:47 AM , Rating: 3
This story is a bunch of BS. Just an excuse to import cheaper workers. What a lie.




RE: what a load
By supermitsuba on 8/19/2010 8:58:22 AM , Rating: 3
Exactly, i have been looking for a software development company to work for, and I can hardly find work in an IT dept making reports. Something is not right with this report.


RE: what a load
By just4U on 8/19/2010 9:40:16 AM , Rating: 2
You know, while reading this I kinda thought the same thing. The claims seem a little far fetched when there are alot of talented individuals out there not able to find suitable employment in the IT department.

Seems to me this is just a reason to give for why they outsource more and more.


RE: what a load
By nafhan on 8/19/2010 9:34:22 AM , Rating: 2
The workers are only cheaper if they outsource. If they're living and working in the US, their wages will be similar for one simple reason: they can quit and go somewhere with higher pay just like you or I would do.


RE: what a load
By just4U on 8/19/2010 9:48:19 AM , Rating: 2
In theory that may be true but not in practice. Your employer has some pull in getting you your work visa. Chances are those under their employ are not going to screw that up by rocking the boat in any way.


RE: what a load
By omnicronx on 8/19/2010 10:34:35 AM , Rating: 3
I completely disagree. Someone born in America is far more likely to quit and switch jobs than someone who moved here from another country and for one simple reason: Its a far riskier move, especially if you are here on a work visa.

We have a lot of foreigners at my workplace, and its the those that are born here that by far have the higher turnover rate.(and yes I work in technology)


RE: what a load
By nafhan on 8/19/2010 10:47:05 AM , Rating: 2
I'm sure it varies from place to place. Most of the people I've known also start doing the work to get citizenship ASAP. If the employer doesn't treat them well, I'd imagine they'll be gone as soon as they're citizens (and yeah, I understand the citizenship thing takes forever).
Anyway, if the option is between bringing educated people to the US and sending the work to someone oversees, I'll pick bringing them to the US. Even if it lowers salaries a bit, at least the jobs will still be here.


RE: what a load
By Smilin on 8/19/2010 3:58:07 PM , Rating: 2
A lot of the H1-B visas here at my work are not applying for citizenship at all. We give them the kung-fu then they take it home. The kung-fu we are giving them cannot be taught at college. It's deep industry "800 level" knowledge that you won't get in school.

I'm involved in our hiring and do most of our teams interviews. It's rough out there but you can find people. We'll do maybe a few hundred resumes down to 1-2 dozen phone screens then maybe 4 fact to face interviews then pick one person.

Once hired though you're in. You'll get treated well and as long as you perform you'll never be laid off. We use contractors to handle business fluctuations and only hire when the job will be absolutely permanent.


RE: what a load
By roadhog1974 on 8/20/2010 12:39:20 AM , Rating: 2
As far as i am aware time on H1-B doesn't count when
applying for citizenship.

Your immigration laws don't make it that easy to stay.


RE: what a load
By Wererat on 8/20/2010 2:07:49 PM , Rating: 2
True. The laws are set up to allow companies to get indentured servants (H-1Bs) but not to attract talent from around the world to become American citizens.

Bad for Americans and bad for immigrants; the only winners are companies who can avoid the law of supply and demand by cheating in this way.


RE: what a load
By YashBudini on 9/1/2010 11:28:54 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
This story is a bunch of BS. Just an excuse to import cheaper workers. What a lie.


Right, H1Bs are just corporate tax evasion. And quality does not matter, only "low bid."

Colleges of course will use such info to sell their degree programs without telling the students the realities of the job market. Even if it's not fraud it's totally unethical, but then what does ethics have to do with business anyways?


Two things
By ianweck on 8/19/2010 11:16:33 AM , Rating: 3
1. There are too many electronic distractions these days for students.
2. I have a feeling we would graduate more engineers if it didn't take five years just to get through school. I mean cut all of the fat, in my opinion humanities and social sciences BS.




RE: Two things
By PaterPelligrino on 8/19/2010 12:00:33 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
I mean cut all of the fat, in my opinion humanities and social sciences BS.


Yah, no reason for Americans to know any history, or political science. Like Afghanistan is ungovernable, or Viet Nam had been fighting for independence from the Chinese, then the French, then the Japanese, then the French again, and finally the Americans - for about a thousand years. We can leave it up to the politicians to make the intelligent decisions when it comes to that kind of thing.

I wonder what percentage of Glenn Beck devotees and Sarah Palin supporters are humanities and social science graduates?


RE: Two things
By Suntan on 8/19/2010 12:35:45 PM , Rating: 1
While I agree that technically inclined people need to have a good foundation in the “softer” subjects, I disagree completely with your assertions that the topics you listed would be good to learn in a College course.

The two poly sci classes I took as electives while getting my engineering degree (at a predominately engineering dominated university) were both centered on the notion that engineers are the reason the world is falling apart...

quote:
I wonder what percentage of Glenn Beck devotees and Sarah Palin supporters are humanities and social science graduates?


By and large, they can’t afford to be.

-Suntan


RE: Two things
By ianweck on 8/19/2010 4:38:24 PM , Rating: 2
I'm talking about engineers, not Americans in general. If we want to graduate more quality engineers a good way to do it is to spend more time on the classes that matter to engineers and less time on the other stuff. Instead of jamming everything into four years and hoping some of it sticks. I'd be interested to know how much time the Chinese spend on these classes in University.
Way to drag politics into this. Besides how many politicians these days are engineers anyway?

quote:
We can leave it up to the politicians to make the intelligent decisions when it comes to that kind of thing.


How about community organizers?


RE: Two things
By eggman on 8/19/2010 3:17:08 PM , Rating: 2
Or they could just cram it all into 4 years including the humanities and social sciences. That is the way it was back when I graduated, 32 years ago. My 134 year old Engineering school it is still that way. It is done by using on the quarter system instead of having semesters. Then you put a semesters work into a quarter.


RE: Two things
By IcePickFreak on 8/19/2010 4:55:22 PM , Rating: 2
I think part of the issue is, why bother going to school for engineering when you can go into sales & marketing and make more money?

I also agree with what others have said in that most these places are looking to hire Sr. level people. If you want young talent, they need to start somewhere. Promote from within and then hire entry level to fill their old spots. Engineering is a bit different in that it varies quite a bit from place to place. Sales is always the same, you're selling widgets. With engineering, places all do things different ways (for obvious reasons) so there's always something new to be learned at a new company. You go through the trouble of getting an engineering degree, which is quite a bit more work than 'business' degrees, and then places want you to have specific experience in their field and the way they operate, and then pay you less than the guy with a business degree who works in sales and spends most his time wining and dining clients.

Let's see, sit at a desk with stacks of paper and constant deadlines, or sit at the local bar & grill shooting the shit and making more money. That's a tough choice. Unfortunately I'm one of the fools that works in engineering.


It's true
By rembo666 on 8/19/2010 9:51:40 AM , Rating: 3
I work for an aerospace software company. Even though many things here require U.S. citizenship, most engineers working here are from China and India. It is almost impossible to find a good candidate in the U.S.

The culture in the U.S. in the past 20 years has pushed kids in the wrong direction. Kids either want to be professional athletes (which is almost as unlikely as winning the lottery), rock stars or movie stars (most musicians and actors actually make very little), or lawyers (most lawyers also make very little).

Athletic and social skills are glorified in schools, while technical skills are sidelined, and it's getting worse as the social conservatives rewrite the school programs. Nerds were never popular with their peers, but they're actually getting more discouraged by the educational system instead of being inspired to fight on.

Furthermore, the so-called "educational experts" are actively "improving" the math and science education by substituting hard work required to master these subjects with liberal ideas of how "talking through problems" and other thought experiments can substitute practice. Kids that go through high school Algebra, Geometry, and Trigonometry end up learning very little and are left with impression that they are "just not good at math". You have to do math to be good at it. Like in sports, there is no substitute for practice.

While there are many good initiatives to improve the situation, society as a whole seems to be unaware that this is a problem, actually pushing in the wrong direction most of the time. I already speak 3 languages, but I think I may have to start learning Mandarin so I can report to my future bosses in Shanghai or Beijing (or maybe Delhi).




RE: It's true
By wempa on 8/19/2010 12:37:04 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Furthermore, the so-called "educational experts" are actively "improving" the math and science education by substituting hard work required to master these subjects with liberal ideas of how "talking through problems" and other thought experiments can substitute practice. Kids that go through high school Algebra, Geometry, and Trigonometry end up learning very little and are left with impression that they are "just not good at math". You have to do math to be good at it. Like in sports, there is no substitute for practice.


I think you hit the nail on the head with this comment. I see the same thing. Teachers don't (or can't) tell kids that they are wrong. Instead, it has to be "Well, you did a good job thinking about the problem and put in a good effort". Screw that. If you are wrong, YOU ARE WRONG ! In the real world, you can lose your job if you make a mistake on a critical decision. They need to go back to the basics with teaching.


RE: It's true
By xkrakenx on 8/19/2010 1:40:32 PM , Rating: 3
absolutely. kids aren't getting dumber, they just aren't being challenged. being told that you failed and need to try harder is a learning experience. better to learn it at a young age then to get your ass handed to you in the real world where actual competition exists.

everybody isn't special. some people need to try harder or get out of the way so the gifted can lead.


RE: It's true
By noonie on 8/19/2010 8:48:18 PM , Rating: 2
I must agree with what's been written here. I've been involved with principal and teacher conferences for the last 10 years. Science and math are discouraged and made fun of by school principles while "art" in general is glorified. It makes it nearly impossible for a young person to have a career in science.

In addition the teachers don't know math and science and the methods used to teach math and science are pretty out there, wild, hair brained schemes that just don't make since. It reminds me of the experimental teaching methods that I was subject to in third grade, unbeknown to my parents. Yep, that's right, a bunch of students were separated out of regular classes and herded into the "experimental" classroom. Crap, I learned absolutely nothing that year. Thankfully forth grade was in a different state and the teacher was wonderful. Third grade for me was in 1973.


Nothing like being told you will be replaced....
By blueaurora on 8/19/2010 7:51:51 AM , Rating: 3
Once you have trained your replacement cant find a job.... then you read a story how companies can't find people like you. Its a conspiracy!

Hasn't happened to me but it happened to family members.




By TerranMagistrate on 8/19/2010 11:16:44 AM , Rating: 2
Honestly, it's sheer stupidity.

And openings for entry-level engineering positions seems to be few and far between. It's mostly Sr. Software Engineer or Sr. Systems Engineer etc. We all have to start somewhere, right?

Well, good luck to them filling those increasingly vacant positions. Long term planning in this regard doesn't seem to be a high priority nowadays.


By sviola on 8/19/2010 11:32:17 AM , Rating: 2
And it is not. Today the motto for an executive is:

1 - Cut costs in whatever way possible (diminish infrastructure, fire higher paid employees and replace them by lower skilled but cheaper ones)
2 - Make the trimestre company numbers positive
3 - See stock price rise
4 - Cash in bonus
5 - Move to new executive role
6 - See your replacement get screwed fixing the issues you let due to the cuts made.

I particularly saw this happen a few times (and always the company gets screwed as they ended having to expend much more on re-hiring the old employees or having to buy more equipment to improve the faultering network/systems)


"Too late, too late!" she cried
By gcor on 8/19/2010 8:37:19 AM , Rating: 3
Outsourcing has been great for companies looking to improve the bottom line. Their business model was to keep the very experienced guys, who represented the companies collective superior tech knowledge. I heard of them refered to as the "Crown Jewels". The rest of the work was then farmed out to cheaper places.

All's well that ends well right? Sadly, this doesn't look like ending well. Now they have a problem, they killed the source of the very experienced guys. Without the less experienced work being done at home, there are no gurus with 20+ years experience coming up. Soon, their Crown Jewels will all be gone.

So what happens next? Do the gurus in India and China move to the US as wage slaves in a foreign land? Or do they stay at home and start their own businesses? Certainly they have the local trained labor force to draw on. By their standards they can earn mega-bucks. While the countries in question may not have the highest standards of living, having mega-bucks can more than make up for it. How many engineers in the US can afford a large household staff?

OK, it's all speculation, but I think maybe the big companies that shafted the US tech workers may have sowed the seeds for their own destruction.




RE: "Too late, too late!" she cried
By gcor on 8/19/2010 8:47:26 AM , Rating: 2
...I should probably have added that I was a "middle ranking" engineer working for big corporates, including HAL and ///. Over the last decade or so, it was made clear in no uncertain terms by these big US and European corporates that they wanted everyone but the "Crown Jewels" to voluntarily leave. This would then save pay outs when work was moved to cheaper places.

I only ever made band 10 and Master engineer. Not quite Crown Jewel territory, so not worthy of holding on to. I jumped before being pushed and am now much happier for it.


By cyberserf on 8/19/2010 8:48:57 AM , Rating: 2
short term gain for long term pain! that is the motto these days.


Jobs
By KingofL337 on 8/19/2010 9:08:51 AM , Rating: 3
I think you guys are missing what they are looking for, back in the day when people said "Technology" we assumed they meant IT/Programmers. Now, it means Electrical Engineers, Mechanical Engineers, IC Designers, or some hybrid of Electro-Mecanical Engineers. Most EE's now are expected to be able to write some level of software.

The other issue here is companies have "Bob", who has been working for them for 5-10-15 years and they forward his job requirement and HR posts a job for his exact skill set, and they are only willing to interview someone matches the out going employees skill set 1:1. Instead of hiring someone who is 90% there and letting them learn the last 10% on the job.




RE: Jobs
By mm2587 on 8/19/2010 10:44:06 AM , Rating: 2
amen to that. The number of job postings looking for people with 5-10 years experience in their obnoxiously specific field drives me crazy. The only people who qualify are the guy they laid off for making to much money and maybe his counterpart at their direct competitors.


RE: Jobs
By sviola on 8/19/2010 11:20:09 AM , Rating: 2
Not mentioning they post these jobs requirements and want to paid a novice's salary (I once saw a posting on an IT company that required 5 years of UNIX, 5 years of Windows, 5 years of Java, 5 years of c++ and 5 years of .NET, extesive knowledge of security and architecture. And the position was for a band 7 job).


Return of the Brain Drain!
By blueeyesm on 8/19/2010 10:29:59 AM , Rating: 2
By noonie on 8/19/2010 6:10:35 PM , Rating: 2
Who needs problem solvers (scientists) when there's better pay and less work (yes you have to set in meetings 10 hours a day) when you are a problem creator (manager).

It doesn't pay to go into science and engineering. Most US young people are more interested in the entertainment industry than in science and engineering. And besides, science and engineering are being outsourced now so that means competing with regions of the world that have half the cost of living.

If we could just figure out a way to outsource management then the companies could make even more money...oh wait, then the entire company would be overseas, but that will be okay because the stockholders and CEOs/CFOs and such would just make that much more money and have to manage fewer resources. It all works out. Right?




Really?
By Spookster on 8/19/2010 7:47:41 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
"It's not so much that the source of supply is not there," said the CEO of avionics maker Rockwell Collins Inc., Clay Jones. "It's that the source of supply in the United States may not be there."


Oh so that's why Clay is outsourcing many of our currently filled engineering positions to India. </sarcasm>




Standard industry propaganda
By walterbyrd on 8/20/2010 6:38:05 AM , Rating: 2
Nobody, without an agenda, claims that there is a shortage of tech workers in the US.

Studies Indicate IT Labor Shortage is a Myth
http://techtoil.org/doku.php?id=articles:shortage_...

The Tech Skills Shortage Doesn't Exist
http://techtoil.org/doku.php?id=articles:the_tech_...

I do not doubt that US enrollment in STEM is down. Smart Americans would be stupid to study for a STEM "career." Those jobs are being offshored/inshored to death. Now US employers are complaining about the situation that they created. Before 2000, there was no shortage of US students in STEM, what do you think changed? Today, a US STEM graduate can only look forward to training his/her H1B replacement.

As to the retirement argument. Why are they concerned about US workers that are all of 30 years old? According to this New York Times Article about Age Discrimination: “In an industry survey, a majority of technology companies candidly said they would not hire anyone over 40.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/22/weekinreview/22l...




glut of US STEM expertise
By BruceDeLaVega on 8/20/2010 9:42:39 AM , Rating: 2
Nearly 30% of industry workers are 50 to 59 years old, with a life expectancy of another 21-30 years and retirement and savings wiped out by the Bush-Clinton-Bush-Obama economic depression.

It's interesting that both of the shortage wailers cited fail to include human contact names, e-mail addresses, and voice telephone numbers in their job ads (nor do they supply such in their quotes). Nor have they been prominent at job fairs and employment networking events. They're simply not seriously trying to recruit from the huge pool of available STEM talent, nor interested in investing in reasonable new-hire training or relocation of US citizens within the USA.

"Northrup Grumman... gets 30K resumes a week", reported Peter Pae 2008-12-23 in the Los Angeles Times. 2010-01-14: GE received 18K applications for 1200 jobs near Ann Arbor, MI. 2010-05-20: Google gets more than 3K applications a day, over 90K applications per month (cited by Laura Petrecca in USA Today).

Studies by researchers from Columbia U, Computing Research Association (CRA), Duke U, Georgetown U, Harvard U, National Research Council of the NAS, RAND Corporation, Rochester Institute of Technology, Rutgers U, Alfred P. Sloan Foundation, Stanford U, SUNY Buffalo, UC Davis, UPenn Wharton School, Urban Institute, and US Dept. of Education Office of Education Research & Improvement have reported that the USA has continually been producing more US citizen STEM workers than we've been employing in these fields.

One former cross-border bodyshopper, Vivek Wadhwa, confessed after conducting an extensive survey of executives and managers, that, by every measure, US STEM workers are the best, most creative, knowledgeable, flexible, and industrious in the world, while Tata VP Vandrevala confessed in 2006 that it's all about cheapness, with labor from India being 20%-25% ($20K to $30K) cheaper than US talent at the time.

2010-06-14
Beryl Lieff Benderly _Miller-McCune_
http://www.miller-mccune.com/science/the-real-scie...
The Real Science Gap Is a Shortage of Employment Opportunities

http://www.kermitrose.com/econSummaryAnalysis.html




"It's okay. The scenarios aren't that clear. But it's good looking. [Steve Jobs] does good design, and [the iPad] is absolutely a good example of that." -- Bill Gates on the Apple iPad














botimage
Copyright 2012 DailyTech LLC. - RSS Feed | Advertise | About Us | Ethics | FAQ | Terms, Conditions & Privacy Information | Kristopher Kubicki