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Print E-mail del.icio.us 131 comment(s) - last by Joz.. on Feb 4 at 8:13 PM

Deal must be approved by next summer

The U.S. Military is in the middle of working on one of its most ambitious aircraft projects of all times -- the F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter. The aircraft is being built with cooperation from a core group of countries that includes Italy, the Netherlands, Turkey, Canada, Australia, Denmark, and Norway.

Altogether, these countries are expected to purchase over 700 of the aircraft and help support the cost of the development. The program is now well behind schedule and delays are causing some of the participating countries to consider scaling back on their orders. The Dutch parliament is one key player considering a reduction in its order from 85 to 57 aircraft to reduce costs.

In an effort to secure more orders and reduce the development costs of the F-35, The U.S. has offered to add Israeli-made munitions and systems to the F-35 and deliver the aircraft to Israel by 2015. Reuters reports that Israeli built systems including command, control, communications, computer, and intelligence systems could be integrated into a unique version of the F-35 specifically for Israel.

The deal would also reportedly give Israel an inexpensive path for upgrading hardware and software for future weapons systems. The F-35 is currently in the early stages of production reports Reuters.

Jon Schreiber, a senior Pentagon official told Reuters, "Some time in the future, if policy changes, or things change, that could change as well."

The deal with Israel for the F-35 is tentatively set at an initial buy of 25 aircraft in fiscal 2012 with an option for 50 more. The U.S. will submit its formal offer and pricing to Israel in January and it must be approved no later than June or July with the buy in fiscal 2012 and delivery in 2015.

While no official pricing for the deal has been offered, Schreiber did state that Israel would buy the basic aircraft at the same price as the U.S. and the other co-development partners. A government-to-government sales commission would be tacked onto the deal along with the costs of integrating the Israeli weapons systems.

Israel is expected to be the only country in the Middle East to be offered the F-35 aircraft. Schreiber said that the U.S. is dedicated to maintaining the "quantitative" edge over any regional rivals of Israel.

The F-35 program hit a milestone recently when the first conventional take off and landing aircraft performed its initial flight test. The previous flight tests had been performed by STOVL versions of the F-35. While the F-35 program has seen significant delays, a senior Lockheed executive running the program -- Dan Crowley -- has stated that the program will meet schedule starting in 2011.



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And yet...
By Spivonious on 11/24/2009 11:04:27 AM , Rating: 2
People wonder why the Arabs don't like the U.S.




RE: And yet...
By iFX on 11/24/2009 11:17:15 AM , Rating: 4
Yeah, we're like the pesky kids in Scooby Doo that keep the Arabs and Persians from annihilating the Jews. No wonder they don't like us.


RE: And yet...
By corduroygt on 11/24/2009 12:14:51 PM , Rating: 2
Not to mention most of Israel population are arabs! They're jewish arabs but still arabs.


RE: And yet...
By Yaron on 11/24/2009 5:28:58 PM , Rating: 1
It's nice to learn that me, my family and the other 6 million Jews living here in Israel are arabs...

I didn't know it until I read your well informed comment.

Thanks! :\


RE: And yet...
By magneticfield on 11/25/2009 6:02:42 AM , Rating: 2
Jews and Palestinians have common DNA roots. But the other way around, the Palestinians are more jews than arabs.
quote:
A study in October 2000 showed the majority of Palestinians tested were found to have DNA of that of Jews. The conclusion of the DNA results is as follows:According to historical records part, or perhaps the majority, of the Moslem Arabs in this country descended from local inhabitants, mainly Christians and Jews, who had converted after the Islamic conquest in the seventh century AD (Shaban 1971; Mc Graw Donner 1981). These local inhabitants, in turn, were descendants of the core population that had lived in the area for several centuries, some even since prehistorical times (Gil 1992). On the other hand, the ancestors of the great majority of present-day Jews lived outside this region for almost two millennia. Thus, our findings are in good agreement with historical evidence and suggest genetic continuity in both populations despite their long separation and the wide geographic dispersal of Jews.[103]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_people


RE: And yet...
By Yaron on 11/25/09, Rating: -1
RE: And yet...
By Elwad on 11/25/09, Rating: 0
RE: And yet...
By Yaron on 11/25/09, Rating: 0
RE: And yet...
By Elwad on 11/25/2009 3:09:26 PM , Rating: 1
That meat does look quite tasty and I think that I am overdue to host a bbq.

Sorry for the flame bait.

I was responding to:
"If someone calls me a palestinian, I'm gonna kill the sons a bitches."
and thought you were dehumanizing the Palestinians, obviously you were not.


RE: And yet...
By Yaron on 11/25/2009 4:55:36 PM , Rating: 3
Naaa... it's ok.
Hands down, it's all religious bullshit and blood politics. Everybody wants peace in the middle east but no has the balls to make it. They are all cowards.

Maybe someday there will peace and we can all eat some Humus and Tahina in Nablus (it is said they have the best Tahina in the middle east). But until then, it is nice to have those F35! ;)

Anyway, if you go for lamb chops, make sure you buy meat of a young lamb and that they cut them thin. Put some black pepper and a little bit of salt, as this meet does not need anything else. I personally believe it is the best meet for a bbq.

If you will ever have the chance to visit Israel, go to Nazareth in the north. There is a restaurant there called "Diana" - this is also owned by palestinians albeit I think they are christians. The place itself is very simple but their lamb chops and kebabs are stuff of legend and I guarantee that you will never eat anything like it elsewhere.

Link: http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/d29/1a11aa/2/


RE: And yet...
By TerranMagistrate on 11/25/2009 7:41:15 PM , Rating: 3
As much as I would like to believe that the majority want peace, this aforementioned majority (Israel's neighbors) absolutely do not. Israel stands alone in that wish for peace and coexistence. I'm not just talking about just the Islamic fundamentalist governments (Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc.) but the very populace in these countries. They are indoctrinated with Islam and so therefore are inherently anti-Jew to the point of genocidal hatred.

And Turkey, the supposed mediator of that region, is starting to show it's true colors little by little. What I'm saying is that peace is the furthest thing from Israel's adversaries and false regional allies due to the cancerous religious influence (Islam).


RE: And yet...
By Regs on 11/30/2009 12:43:46 PM , Rating: 2
Religion was always a nice excuse for man to make war. However most of us believe the differences in power (basis of conflict theory) are what actually spawns war. The beauty about America is that people believe in the illusion that they are in control or have some power over their government, and that is what keeps us from killing each other or entering into countless civil wars.

I bet you 1,000,000 dollars if Mexican immigrants (even legal) took power over our government, monetary system, economic system, and educational system we would rage a war so blood thirsty it would make every statue of the Holy Mary cry blood.


RE: And yet...
By scrapsma54 on 11/25/2009 8:35:26 PM , Rating: 2
It is not resourceful to use Wikipedia.

If someone is to blame it should be the soviets, Not america, not the Jews. I don't know why people are irrational towards them, but its for that reason they need the military might.

Rank me down; all the more insightful I become.


RE: And yet...
By BikeDude on 11/28/2009 7:10:32 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Jews and Palestinians have common DNA roots. But the other way around, the Palestinians are more jews than arabs.


Given that the earliest Christians (no further back than 2000 years ago) were Jews, it seems a bit odd to argue when someone says the DNA is very similar. Who is "derived" from whom is of little interest btw. What is worth discussing is why we let religious nuts (be it Christians, Jews or Muslims) have so much influence. Vocal religious people have no place in a modern, well-educated and peaceful society.

Question (out of curiosity): What happened with those early Christians? AFAIK many Palestinians are Christian and I doubt many westerners can tell them apart from other people living in Israel. (except by looking at how they dress and party -- is it even possible to tell the difference given a DNA test?)


RE: And yet...
By SilicconDoc on 11/24/09, Rating: -1
RE: And yet...
By magneticfield on 11/25/2009 6:07:20 AM , Rating: 4
So you think you need to submit others to accept Christ as your saviour.
I hope you are just a lone Christian extremist, you sound exactly like a Muslim extremist calling for Jihad.
When you guys will stop trying to impose you religious beliefs on everyone around you, the world will be a much better place.
Just give it a thought!


RE: And yet...
By rcc on 11/25/2009 12:34:56 PM , Rating: 4
Pretty much, but they call it a Crusade instead.

Personally I think you can lay a majority of the worlds problems in the last 4000 years on organized religions.

Can we get the world to adopt a "don't ask, don't tell" policy on religion? Just do your own thing and leave everyone else alone?


RE: And yet...
By menace on 11/25/2009 1:07:11 PM , Rating: 3
I agree. Regimes that suppress religious expression have proven to be glorious utopias (Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, et al.)


RE: And yet...
By rcc on 11/25/2009 1:13:10 PM , Rating: 4
Unsurprisingly enough, you missed the whole point.

It's not about suppressing, it's about allowing everyone to do their own thing.

In the phyical world we say "your right to swing your fist ends just short of my chin".

In the spiritual world then, "your right to express your freedom of religion ends where it starts to encroach on mine".

Or do you really believe that you should have the right to dictate religious preference to your neighbor. Cuz if so, we'll have to agree to disagree.


RE: And yet...
By Shining Arcanine on 11/25/2009 1:51:29 PM , Rating: 3
You say that he is trying to impose his beliefs on others, but to be honest, I think you are trying to impose your beliefs on him.

People coercising others to behave like they behave has been a behavior of human beings for millennia and has not changed. If you think you are any different from him, you are sorely mistaken.


RE: And yet...
By Lennie on 11/27/2009 2:53:08 AM , Rating: 3
Watched 300 recently?

You confused Mullah's with Persians. Mullah's are the ruling minority which declared their hate against Israel. Persians as you mentioned are the people of Iran who are against Mullah exactly because of their insane idealogy. Persians as a race were the first to declare a human rights bill long long ago before anyone cared about rights. They were a noble empire and open to foreign religions as well.

Mullah's kill their own people who were protesting against the regime(men and women) in the bright day light with direct bullets on the streets . You would know that if you had followed the news recently.

It gets even more interesting when you realize that Mullahs were actually brought to power western powers who aided in overthrowing of Iran's king in subtle ways. Democrats old dog Carter was the main leader behind it. Shocked? Absolutely unbelievable? Yes but that is the truth.


RE: And yet...
By mdogs444 on 11/24/2009 11:22:23 AM , Rating: 4
quote:
People wonder why the Arabs don't like the U.S.

Who gives a shit. No one wonders why the crazy Muslims & Arabs don't like us...instead we choose not to care. I can only hope Israel decides to take the situation into their own hands and bombs the crap out of Iran.


RE: And yet...
By FITCamaro on 11/24/2009 12:44:51 PM , Rating: 2
Word. I'll certainly be much happier.


RE: And yet...
By mcnabney on 11/24/09, Rating: -1
RE: And yet...
By bupkus on 11/24/2009 2:34:49 PM , Rating: 2
Yah, closed for repairs.


RE: And yet...
By JNo on 11/24/09, Rating: 0
RE: And yet...
By B3an on 11/25/09, Rating: 0
RE: And yet...
By Carl B on 11/24/09, Rating: 0
RE: And yet...
By Nfarce on 11/24/2009 7:43:43 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
And I have to highlight them as such because essentially, everything government is *always* bad, except when it comes to matters military


That's always such a typical mindless bedwetting leftist comment: "you neocon chickenhawks hate the government except the military." Grow up.

Besides, the military has been around just as long as since our Founding Fathers laid the foundation for this great nation. While the structure, discipline, and results of the military haven't changed much other than through needs of hardware and warfare, I can't quite say the same about the government idiots running things in Washington (and elsewhere for that matter) these days which ideas and policies would look completely alien to said Founding Fathers. I mean come on let's just look at one point of brilliance: fining and even JAILING someone for not signing up for government run health care?


RE: And yet...
By Stonewall123 on 11/25/2009 1:44:04 AM , Rating: 3
Washington warned against "foreign entanglements". The military hasn't changed? I didn't know we had 800 military bases around the world back in the 1700's!


RE: And yet...
By magneticfield on 11/25/2009 6:10:57 AM , Rating: 3
Why you call this nation "great"?


RE: And yet...
By hashish2020 on 11/26/2009 6:57:35 PM , Rating: 2
"ideas and policies would look completely alien to said Founding Fathers"

Like standing armies?

"There are instruments so dangerous to the rights of the nation and which place them so totally at the mercy of their governors that those governors, whether legislative or executive, should be restrained from keeping such instruments on foot but in well-defined cases. Such an instrument is a standing army." --Thomas Jefferson to David Humphreys, 1789. ME 7:323

And force projection?

"I believe now we should be gainers were we to burn our whole navy, and build what we should be able on plans approved by experience and not warped to the whimsical ideas of individuals, who do not consider that if their projects miscarry their country is in a manner undone." --Thomas Jefferson to Richard Henry Lee, 1779. Papers 3:39

And large militaries?

"The spirit of this country is totally adverse to a large military force." --Thomas Jefferson to Chandler Price, 1807. ME 11:160

While the 5th Congress established government run healthcare

"For the Relief of Sick and Disabled Seamen" using a payroll tax

And for those that argue against taxes on sugary drinks, alcohol, etc---did you guys ever hear of the WHISKEY REBELLION?

The doublethink of Palin-esque national security and law and order conservatives is astonishing

Either you mistrust the government, ESPECIALLY when it comes to the use of force, or you trust it a bit---picking and choosing is a mark of an intellectually dishonest person with unspoken motivations


RE: And yet...
By Nfarce on 11/27/2009 5:27:44 PM , Rating: 3
Either you completely missed the point or you are an Obamabot. The STRUCTURE of the military hasn't changed much, yet the STRUCTURE of the "government" has, especially under this libtard-run one. Now Maybe you can 'splain to the rest of us why those in Congress will not parlay in "government" run health care plans. Uh huh.


RE: And yet...
By Stonewall123 on 11/28/2009 10:39:53 AM , Rating: 1
the PURPOSE of the military has changed a hell of a lot. from defense to empire building.


RE: And yet...
By Stonewall123 on 11/25/2009 1:34:05 AM , Rating: 2
Maybe the relatives of the 9/11 dead?


RE: And yet...
By psenechal on 11/24/2009 12:36:08 PM , Rating: 2
Wouldn't it be nice if we just didn't need billion dollar aircraft and could somehow figure out how to all get along?


RE: And yet...
By FITCamaro on 11/24/2009 12:44:23 PM , Rating: 1
Sure it would. Lemme know when you're off your acid trip and return to reality.

Arabs will be happy when they're able to kill all the Jews and take back Israel by force. Maybe an acceptable solution for you, but not for most.


RE: And yet...
By mcnabney on 11/24/09, Rating: 0
RE: And yet...
By Nfarce on 11/24/2009 2:20:23 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
But since when are a foreign nation's problems automatically our own?


Because sooner or later, directly or indirectly, they all eventually become "our" problems. History has proven that time after time after time.


RE: And yet...
By Carl B on 11/24/09, Rating: 0
RE: And yet...
By Nfarce on 11/24/2009 7:34:54 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
What history has proven, if anything, is that putting money towards air superiorty when you are afar and away unchallenged in that realm... is a waste of money


I've said it before and I'll say it again for dwellers like you of the here and the present: nobody knows what the future of warfare will need in 30, 20, or even 10 years from now. Exactly how long do you think a 35 year old design like the F-16 will last?

BTW: the F-35's mission is not aerial superiority. We have (what's left remaining) of the F-22s for that, which is the replacement of the 35 year old F-15. The Russians have their variants that are new, and you can bet China will be buying them or building their version of one. Iran is buying them. Hugo the Horrible's Venezuela is buying them. In a national emergency do think we can just crank up the F-22 plant in Georgia and just start cranking out Raptors like cars? We lost a large portion of the first two years of air battles on both fronts during WWII because our development of aerial superiority aircraft was behind that of our enemies - that many pacifists said we didn't need to fight "afar and away."

Finally, you need to research a little on the history of the P-51 Mustang for starters in ascertaining history hasn't proven aerial superiority is needed overseas. Hell you don't even have to go back that far. Just ask the British pilots during the Falklands war how important projecting aerial superiority was "afar and away."


RE: And yet...
By Stonewall123 on 11/25/09, Rating: -1
RE: And yet...
By menace on 11/25/2009 1:47:20 PM , Rating: 4
You need to familiarize yourself with its history.

The islands are a self-governing Overseas Territory of the United Kingdom and Stanley, on East Falkland, is the capital.

Ever since the re-establishment of British rule in 1833 Argentina has claimed sovereignty. In pursuit of this claim, which is rejected by the islanders, Argentina invaded the Falkland Islands in 1982.

The islands have a complex history. Discovered by a Dutch sailor, original 1764 settlement was French, then the British established a settlement the following year. Spain swooped in with a settlement after British settlements were abandoned due to financial pressures from the American Revolutionary War. Spain abandoned settlements in 1811. Argentinian independence came in 1816, in 1828 a small settlement and penal colony was established. The settlement was destroyed by an American warship in 1831 in a skirmish over fishing rights. Some prisoners and pirates remained but with no rule of government. In 1833 the British returned to reassert their sovereignty claim and established new settlements that remain to this day.

No nation had any clear right to sovereignty (the islands are 300 mi from Argentina) prior to the 1833 colonization. In that case you would have to say the 176 years of British sovereignty has to be honored, despite any dubious claims by Argentina.


RE: And yet...
By Stonewall123 on 11/25/09, Rating: -1
RE: And yet...
By Stonewall123 on 11/25/2009 1:36:34 AM , Rating: 1
key word "Take BACK! at least you admit it used to be the Palestinians land.


RE: And yet...
By TerranMagistrate on 11/25/2009 1:59:49 PM , Rating: 2
Yea, the sovereign country of Palestine that they would love to "take back". Too bad there never was such a thing.

The Jews are the ones who took back that land after losing it under Roman authority, which later became conquered Islamic lands under the Ottoman Empire.


RE: And yet...
By Stonewall123 on 11/25/2009 6:21:58 PM , Rating: 1
doesn't matter if the palestians had an official state called Palestine or not. hundreds of thousand lived there until they were displaced illegally by the Zionists.


RE: And yet...
By Nfarce on 11/24/2009 2:26:40 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Wouldn't it be nice if we just didn't need billion dollar aircraft and could somehow figure out how to all get along?


It's a big, big world out there with countless differences not only outside everyone's borders, but inside said borders as well. If a nation's own indigenous people can't get along with each other, how the hell do you expect an entire globe of differing nations to "get along?"

You are posting from planet earth, aren't you?


RE: And yet...
By rtrski on 11/24/2009 3:08:47 PM , Rating: 3
(donning Centurion helmet and armor skirt)

"I'm going to destroy the Earth; it obstructs my view of Venus."


RE: And yet...
By sinful on 11/24/2009 6:22:20 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
(donning Centurion helmet and armor skirt)

"I'm going to destroy the Earth; it obstructs my view of Venus."


But, it also blocks the view of Uranus.


RE: And yet...
By Totally on 11/25/2009 12:57:06 PM , Rating: 2
Good, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to be looking at it.


RE: And yet...
By Stonewall123 on 11/25/2009 6:37:55 PM , Rating: 1
No other country in the world is building billion dollar carriers and 100 million dollar airplanes. and when China and the rest of the world decides they don't want to take our worthless I.O.U's anymore neither will we.


RE: And yet...
By rcc on 11/25/09, Rating: 0
RE: And yet...
By Stonewall123 on 11/25/2009 6:24:09 PM , Rating: 2
and why do we spend more on the military than the rest of the world combined? Because we're such peace lovers? lol great logic.


RE: And yet...
By rcc on 12/4/2009 6:21:04 PM , Rating: 2
did that have anything to do with what I posted?


RE: And yet...
By Myg on 11/26/2009 5:49:24 AM , Rating: 2
"Peace on earth" is an ideal that you have to be prepared to die for to allow to exist. That is the price to pay for it; to allow others to conquer you, trample you and deny you things like government, country and freedom.

Those looking for peace are the ones who care so little about their own desires and wants that they are willing to sacrifice them and possibly everything else so that they offer the people who would subjugate them the opportunity to see their sacrifices and follow in turn for the greater good.

Its a hard truth, but thats unfortunatly just how it is.

Thats why there will never be "Peace on earth", and why true peace can only be found in living well and dying with no "blood on your hands" in all the manners of living.


RE: And yet...
By Danish1 on 11/27/2009 12:47:56 PM , Rating: 2
You are wrong, people don't wonder why the Arabs don't like the US.
We gave up trying to rationalize their insane behavior long ago.


RE: And yet...
By Stonewall123 on 11/28/2009 10:42:44 AM , Rating: 2
yeh, when you take their land and overthrow their governments they get mad, what insanity.


RE: And yet...
By Danish1 on 12/1/2009 1:08:46 AM , Rating: 2
When you went to school, assuming you did, was some of the pages in your history book by any chance glued together?


Pentagon Wars
By grath on 11/24/2009 10:20:04 AM , Rating: 5
Anyone remember the movie (or book and IRL it was based on) Pentagon Wars?

In a nutshell, corrupt procurement led the M2 Bradley vehicle to be dangerously unsafe for its occupants. The protagonist is surprised to see Bradleys coming off the line in an uparmored and improved version. He asks who made the changes:

"The Israelis took one look at it and knew it was a deathtrap"

So they demanded changes to the export version, while the domestic version at the time remained unchanged and unsafe. It was based on a real story but I dont know if this particular example is true or not, but it does make one wonder...




RE: Pentagon Wars
By Joz on 11/24/2009 10:39:59 AM , Rating: 4
Its based on real world examples, anything the Israeli's get their hands on gets an upgrade that most other countries would think impossible to do. The F16's and F15's we[America] gave them where modified and upgraded for incredible performance over the stock version the US military and its allies are using. The Sherman tanks is another great example that the Israeli's upgraded on, as well as Paton tanks (M41, M47 and M48 models, M60 model latter on.) Israel also aquired other aircraft from Eruope and several destroyers, and subs as well, all of exelent qualitiy and performance.

However, Israeli still has its own IMI facilities producing some of the best weaponry in the world: Merkava MBT, Galil assault rifle, Travor assault rifle, Barak pistol, Negev machine gun, the Uzi family, and the more recent (as-seen-on-tv...) Corner Shot.

Give Israel the space they need to create a larger research facility for airplanes and they most likely wouldn't need ours, we'd need theirs.


RE: Pentagon Wars
By drycrust on 11/24/2009 11:00:58 AM , Rating: 3
As I understand it, that desire to upgrade everything creates a problem when you want to build your own fighter planes because there comes a point in designing one when you have to say "No more improvements". I saw a bit on TV some years ago where they were discussing how the Israelis had given up trying to design and build their own fighter plane (as distinct from the ones they had "obtained" blueprints for) because every time they got to building a prototype someone would want to change something.


RE: Pentagon Wars
By Chillin1248 (blog) on 11/26/2009 9:00:37 PM , Rating: 2
I believe you are refering to the "Lavi".

It was an Israeli designed jet warplane similar in purpose (and size) to the American F-16. However the Americans put pressure on Israel to cease development after two prototypes were produced.

-------
Chillin


RE: Pentagon Wars
By Amiga500 on 11/24/2009 11:30:49 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
The F16's and F15's we[America] gave them where modified and upgraded for incredible performance over the stock version the US military and its allies are using.


Now, now... pride is one thing, but inaccurate exaggerations are another.

For instance, how many Israeli F-15s have AESA radar?


RE: Pentagon Wars
By JFL1969 on 11/24/2009 11:42:55 AM , Rating: 2
Wasn't it the isrealies who came up with the F-15 Shrike anti-radar version? If I'm not wrong, they took an F-15 and upgraded it and the American took there idea and did the same thing. I could be wrong.


RE: Pentagon Wars
By lucyfek on 11/24/2009 12:02:55 PM , Rating: 5
and don't forget about giving them money (besides the space) - otherwise this whole miracle could not exist


RE: Pentagon Wars
By FITCamaro on 11/24/2009 12:39:05 PM , Rating: 4
It's amazing what you can develop when you know every country around you wants to destroy you and you're not too big of a pussy to do something to prevent it.


RE: Pentagon Wars
By lukasbradley on 11/24/09, Rating: 0
RE: Pentagon Wars
By FITCamaro on 11/24/2009 12:47:13 PM , Rating: 4
Yeah because those rockets the Palestinians launch at Israel every day are just a figment of their imagination. And Iran's leader publicly saying he wants to destroy Israel, another figment of the imagination. Syria and Egypt have no love for Israel either.


RE: Pentagon Wars
By Nfarce on 11/24/2009 2:03:24 PM , Rating: 5
And don't forget that figment about how Israel voluntarily withdrew from Gaza and Hamas saw that as a weakness on Israel's behalf and therefore a victory from Allah and a green light to support continued attacks (and crossing the Israeli border to kidnap IDF soldiers).


RE: Pentagon Wars
By sandhuatdt on 11/24/2009 2:21:48 PM , Rating: 1
I know this is pretty much a pissing contest and looks like you are pretty sold on Israel but what the heck, I will throw my hat in the ring.

First, you really think they need those advanced fighter jets to keep Palestinian tin-can rockets off Israel? In the bigger picture, wars are means to a political end. And to that extent all of Israel's hardware has failed because they are not at peace with any of their neighbours. Israelis, as much as anyone, deserve peace to prosper and live in a free society. You would think trillions spent over the years on arms would have bought them that, by now. No?

Second, Iran. Do a bit fact digging that goes beyond Iran's rhetoric. If anything, Iran has helped Israel and the US get out of many a sticky situations in the ME. Iran, Israel and US, for many years, have gone to extreme extents to hide these diplomatic channels. Do you know how Iranian Jews travel between Iran and Israel? Find out. If Iran and Israel are such arch-enemies, how come Israel brokered the deal to sell arms to Iran originating in the US during the Iran-Iraq war? Wonder why the Hezbollah isn't always attacking Israel like Hamas? The politics of the middle east runs much deeper and much complicated than the ideological rhetoric of it's leaders, whether from Iran or Israel.


RE: Pentagon Wars
By rcc on 11/24/2009 5:22:47 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
You would think trillions spent over the years on arms would have bought them that, by now. No?


Perhaps it hasn't bought peace. But experience tells us that peace cannot truly be bought. But it's done a damn fine job of buying survival.


RE: Pentagon Wars
By Wierdo on 11/24/09, Rating: 0
RE: Pentagon Wars
By rcc on 11/25/2009 12:28:27 PM , Rating: 2
I am not in agreement with everything that Israel has done or said since it's creation, but I have far more sympathy for the Israeli's than I do the nations surrounding it.

Necessity has created a very different culture there than that of most 1st world nations. I spent some time in Israel in the 80s and 90s on business. Here are some of the "interesting" adaptations I noted. I doubt that most of them have changed, but if someone has new knowledge, please feel free to comment.

1) Military personnel off-duty. If they are within 50 miles (or perhaps kilometers) of the frontier they are required to carry their personal weapons with them wherever they go. Take a girl to dinner, take your M-16, or whatever they are using now.

2) If they aren't on the frontier they only have to take them home at night, but don't actually have to carry them wherever they go. Both of these measures mean that there are a fair number of armed military nearby to reactive terrorist attacks, or invasion.

3) Even in large cities, there are natural gas tanks in the buildings so that terrorist or battle damage doesn't disrupt gas service.

The first thing I saw when I left the airport, was a soldier hitchhiking, in cammies, with backpack and an M-16, and that was considered normal, no one had a problem with it. Most considered it a good thing, since they had armed protection near at hand.

I've rambled to much, but I suspect that the closest we get in the US to these conditions is living near, but separate from, some of our inner city areas.


RE: Pentagon Wars
By Yaron on 11/25/2009 1:25:56 PM , Rating: 2
Quite true.

My father was an officer in the Israeli military and whenever we went on a trip near the frontiers he would pack an Uzi with a few mags. Seemed natural to me as a boy. Trips from school to any area in the west bank, Jerusalem, the south or north is always accompanied by grown ups with weapons. They receive the weapons from the police and return it once the trip is over.

Armed soldiers are everywhere and it is true that it is considered a good thing. We do not fear our soldiers as they are literally the sons, the daughters, the fathers and the brothers. It is a real army of the people. For this reason, Israeli military personnel are considered untouchable by the civilians (almost holly). It is a consensus that is very rarely broken. 99% of Israelis will never even think of laying a finger on them. Quite the contrary, they will receive any and all support.

As to the gas tanks - every home has its own small gas tanks. Not sure if this is what you meant.


RE: Pentagon Wars
By rcc on 11/25/2009 2:09:53 PM , Rating: 2
I was refering to the natural gas, for heating, cooking, etc.


RE: Pentagon Wars
By Yaron on 11/25/2009 2:38:30 PM , Rating: 2
In that case, you are right. It's still the same as it was when you visited.


RE: Pentagon Wars
By Chillin1248 (blog) on 11/26/2009 9:03:54 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If Iran and Israel are such arch-enemies, how come Israel brokered the deal to sell arms to Iran originating in the US during the Iran-Iraq war?


Actually it was the U.S. who were the original brains behind the Irangate affair. Also it was part of Israeli policy at the time, let both sides bleed and leave Israel alone.

-------
Chillin


RE: Pentagon Wars
By Last on 11/24/09, Rating: 0
RE: Pentagon Wars
By Einy0 on 11/24/2009 3:13:33 PM , Rating: 2
You mean stripped down... The F-15s sold to Israel have down-graded avionics. They have a weaker radar, weaker encryption on their comm systems, etc... They may have upgraded engines. A few other modern upgrades. Those same upgrades where made to the current active F-15s as well. I'm sure it's the same on the F-16s except the radar package, the F-16s Radar package is junk anyway...


RE: Pentagon Wars
By Reclaimer77 on 11/24/2009 5:44:21 PM , Rating: 2
It doesn't matter how good their F-35 will be. We have something better...

The F-22.


RE: Pentagon Wars
By Noya on 11/25/2009 12:02:37 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah...because we're going to fight Israel next week lmao.


RE: Pentagon Wars
By Joz on 2/4/2010 8:13:31 PM , Rating: 2
if we wanted to lose horribly... (minus the nukes.)


RE: Pentagon Wars
By Belard on 11/24/2009 9:49:15 PM , Rating: 3
and remember, the Intel Core design CPUs are from Israel.


RE: Pentagon Wars
By stmok on 11/24/2009 11:40:45 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Anyone remember the movie (or book and IRL it was based on) Pentagon Wars?


My fav scene in the movie...
[the budget of the entire Bradley project]
Major General Partridge: Fourteen.
Madame Chairwoman: Million?
Major General Partridge: [Under his breath] Billion...
Madame Chairwoman: What?
Major General Partridge: Billion.
Madame Chairwoman: Billion? With a "B"?
Major General Partridge: With a "B".

...Isn't the F-35 running overbudget as well?
(I haven't kept track of the project in a while.)


RE: Pentagon Wars
By jemcam on 11/24/09, Rating: 0
RE: Pentagon Wars
By Iaiken on 11/24/2009 6:08:13 PM , Rating: 2
The M2/M3 received [B]extensive[/B] armor and engine upgrades over their service life to account for some of the major flaws present in the design.

Ultimately the vehicle has been a compromise in that the infantry inside are safe from anything short of a catastrophic kill. Even even in documented cases of catastrophic kills, there are usually survivors in the Bradly where similar strikes on M113's or LAV's have resulted in total loss of life.

The only problem I see with the Bradly as an IFV is that it was designed to try and do too many things at once:

Armored Recon - Too big
Light Tank - Limited firepower
Amphibious - Too heavy
Troop Transport - Doesn't carry enough troops

However, the current iteration of the Bradly has been proven on the battlefield to be a survivable vehicle capable of defeating everything from infantry to light armor. So while it may not be the best, it's good enough...

In the mean time, the replacement is already on the drawing board and with any luck they will expand upon the lessons learned from the Bradly.


RE: Pentagon Wars
By Chillin1248 (blog) on 11/26/2009 9:21:31 PM , Rating: 2
After Israel bought the M-113s from America and saw their shortcomings, even with upgraded armor packages, it skipped the light IFV (Infantry Fighting Vehicle) era and went straight to heavy IFVs.

An early example of this is the Puma which was a conversion from the old British Centurion tanks. After which came the NagmaSho't, Nagmachon and Nakpadon. All these vehicles were ahead of their time.

The first major redesign came with the Achzarit, which was a converted Russian T-54/55 tank. It had an all new interior, new more efficient engine and a rear hatch for debarking troops. It also had a significant amount of armor and was able to carry heavy weaponary.

Finally comes the Namer, a converted Merkava 4 tank body completly redisigned for the APC role. It is the most advanced of its kind in the world and was built based on the lessons of the previous Israeli IFV/APCs. It also carries weaponary equal or superior to that of contempary designs.

Relevant links below:
Israeli M-113s - http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/vehicles/ar...
Puma - http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/vehicles/en...
NagmaSho't - http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/vehicles/en...
Achzarit - http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/vehicles/ar...

-------
Chillin


RE: Pentagon Wars
By thenoorer on 11/24/09, Rating: -1
RE: Pentagon Wars
By Yaron on 11/24/2009 5:24:14 PM , Rating: 5
What do you want from us?!
They want to be martyrs and we are helping them.
It's a nice gesture...


RE: Pentagon Wars
By Firebat5 on 11/25/2009 12:24:40 AM , Rating: 2
LOL

+1


RE: Pentagon Wars
By Orac4prez on 11/30/2009 12:57:06 AM , Rating: 2
There should be many satisfied muslims by now. After all, once they blow themselves up, they will have 72 virgins to satisfy them. Maybe you should ask them if they also end up with 72 mothers-in-law as well! (They might think twice about their eternal future!)


Israel
By Joz on 11/24/2009 10:23:38 AM , Rating: 2
Israeli pilots with Israeli equiped F35s?
Yes please.




RE: Israel
By BZDTemp on 11/24/09, Rating: -1
RE: Israel
By Stonewall123 on 11/25/2009 1:47:32 AM , Rating: 2
We don't sell anything to the Israeli's including these f-35's, we loan them the money to buy them and they never pay it back.


RE: Israel
By Firebat5 on 11/25/2009 1:52:14 AM , Rating: 1
Unfortunately, if the Arabs have their way, there won't be any use for all that "farm equipment." Every Jew will be dead and the Arabs will be trampling on their bodies, plowing them under, and using them for fertalizer.

Their backs are against the wall. Everytime Israel gives up a piece of its sovereignty, the Arabs shoot more rockets, blow up more bombs and call for more blood. They murder innocent people w/suicide bombs all the while claiming "The Jews made me do it, I'm the real victim!" The murderous threats breathed out by Tehran do not stop at the borders of Israel, and they do not end with the blood of Jews--they come to us next. To you, and to me. To my children, and to yours. If we are too cowardly to stand with Israel against this insanity, then we too will be destroyed by it--and if not us then our posterity who, though innocent, will die.

Right now, all that is required to defend our very lives from this insanity is our money: Israel still pays with the blood of her valiant--both civilian and soldier. Pray that it does not one day require our blood--as even now the military is giving in our stead.

-Doran


RE: Israel
By andrinoaa on 11/25/2009 2:14:52 AM , Rating: 1
Listen here, Dorian Gray. Last I heard, the Israeli government just about wiped out all activity in the Palestinian enclaves. If anything, their refusal to acknowledge that the palestinians have the same rights to this land as any Jew, only inflames the Arabs more. This "kill" all Jews is such a paranoid reaction to a situation that has been "spun" big time by the Israeli Government. WAKE UP AMERICA. Selling planes to these guys is like selling arms to Sadam and Bin laden. Just look how Obama is being played for a sucker by Netanyahu in the "peace" negotiations


RE: Israel
By Yaron on 11/25/2009 3:36:52 AM , Rating: 2
Your response is inflammatory rubbish, ignorant and detached from any reality on the ground. You are wrong on so many levels that it's just embarrassing.

The arabs always had a wish to destroy Israel and unfortunately some of them still have.
The current administration in Egypt and the King of Jordan have dropped this vision, but the Palestinians, Hizballah, the muslim brotherhood, Islamic Jihad, al-Qaeda, the Syrians and now the Iranians still aspire to do so.

Iran and Syria are fueling the terror organizations that threaten the stability of the entire middle east, including the more moderate arab regimes. By far the biggest hurdle for peace in our area are the Iranians - as long as their Ayatollahs maintain their tyrannical grip, the will still be wars here.

If the Gaza case study proved one thing, its that once independent and free to choose, the palestinians will go for a radical society (a Hamas society) and gear towards confrontation.

Furthermore, comparing Israel to Saddam or Bin-Laden (may they both burn in hell) is going full-retard and borders on anti-semitism disguised with "anti Israelism".


RE: Israel
By gamerk2 on 11/25/2009 9:08:45 AM , Rating: 1
Question: If the UN unilaritly decided to take part of you're state in order to create an indian nation, would you be fine with it?

Arabs are essentially ticked that Isriel took land that was traditionally Arab (going back to the Crusades) for their new nation, and that Isriel then proceded to prevent the creation of Palistine (which was mandated by the UN in the same mandate that gave creation to Isriel). Throw in politicians with rhetoric, and you get the current result.

Current talk is that the Palestinian Authority might go directly to the UN in order to force them to abide by the mandate, and unilaritly create a Palistinian state (forcing a veto by the US, which would hurt US peace efforts in the process).

As long is Isriel remains an occuping power, this is the result you will see.


RE: Israel
By Firebat5 on 11/25/2009 10:30:07 AM , Rating: 2
Answer: The UN did not unilaterally take part of anyone's country and create a new one as you suppose.

Israel is an established sovereign state--and that as properly as one can be. The existence of the country, Israel, can be traced to the dissolution of the Ottomon Empire in 1922.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire

Once conquered, governmental control of the land now called Israel was transfered to the British via The League of Nations. Some of the Palestinian Mandate was eventially removed considerations for a modern Israel and an independant state allowed to form there--Jordan. The Palestinian Mandate remained under British rule and relatively unformalized as a Jewish state until 1948.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_mandate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Israel

It was at this time that the British after many years of pro-Arab rule, agreeing to the recommendation of the United Nations, made final their withdrawal from the Mandate. The Arab League, which at that time included Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, Saudia Arabia, Syria, and Yemen, vowed not to allow the formation of the Israeli state and sent organized military units to effect such.

Since the British would not stay to effect the orderly creation of a Jewish state and the UN utterly failed to effect a transition that its UNSCOP recommended, one which would recognize the property rights of the then current residents, the Jews were left to establish it by force of arms. That individual Palestinians were caught up in the ensuing struggle and displaced from their property and possessions is a natural effect, and not necessarily indicative of hatred of any group by members of the Jewish community at large.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Specia...

Current Israeli immigration law bears this out since it does not discriminate based on race, religion, creed, sex or political belief. However, it does retain the right to refuse citizenship to those who have not renounced their prior nationality, or not have proved that they will cease to be foreign nationals upon becoming Israeli citizens.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Facts+About+Israel/State...

So long as members of the Palestinian and Arab community continue to seek the rights of citizenship--i.e. ownership of property--through lawless and militaristic means, Israel has no choice but to deny their requests in an attempt to protect its own citizens and governmental stability.


RE: Israel
By Stonewall123 on 11/26/2009 2:58:26 AM , Rating: 2
You're smoking some powerful stuff, don't drive or operate any heavy equipment.


RE: Israel
By Yaron on 11/25/2009 12:42:06 PM , Rating: 2
You gotta be kidding me!

We (Israel) foiled the birth of the palestinian state?! You have been studying alternative history or what?

Israel ACCEPTED the palestinian state from the very beginning. It's the palestinians and arabs nations who never accepted us. Then they fought 7 wars against us to annihilate our state and people only to lose ALL of these wars. In the third war, we took hold of Jordanian territories which are today known as the west bank. This is where these arabs (palestinians) live.

If they really wanted, they could have made peace yesterday. They are just not into it. What they do want is the destruction of Israel. In this case, we will be the ones destroying them. The F35 stealth aircrafts will just make our task somewhat easier.


RE: Israel
By andrinoaa on 11/25/2009 2:55:39 PM , Rating: 2
Yaron, part of the play is that israel fails to acknowledge that PAlestinians are part of the terrain. Its goal is to overcome them by stealth. Just look at the state of play. Surely you cannot be serious to suggest that "more of the same" is going to solve the problems? Just the way you call them "arabs" also suggests you have bought the spin are are also dehumanising the palestinians. And yes, I think Netanyahu is causeing just as much damage as Bin Laden.
I am just reacting to your shrill gung-ho mentality. Remember guys, you made the ascertions, I am just throwing it all back in your faces.


RE: Israel
By Yaron on 11/26/2009 6:02:48 PM , Rating: 2
But they are arabs! What do you mean calling someone an arab is dehumanizing them?!
It's like saying calling an English person an english is dehumanizing them... How do you want people to call arabs? Japanese?!

How is Netanyahu causing damage similar to saddam or bin laden? He froze all construction in the west bank for 10 months - an unprecedented decision that was never even taken by the most Leftist Israeli governments. He is also freeing dozens of palestinian prisoners. All is done in order to convince the PLO to come back to peace negotiations. Which they are refusing!

Please, stop recycling BS. It is embarrassingly ignorant.


RE: Israel
By Stonewall123 on 11/28/2009 10:47:21 AM , Rating: 2
Israel doesn't want peace and never has. The long term plan is to take over the west bank by continually building illegal settlements.


RE: Israel
By Stonewall123 on 11/25/2009 6:29:36 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not Anti semitic or anti jewish, but I am anti Zionist, their long term plan is to take over the west bank and Lebanon. the Zionist are easily the equal of Saddam and as racist as the Nazi's.


RE: Israel
By Yaron on 11/26/2009 5:51:38 PM , Rating: 1
I am a Zionist and the vast majority of Israelis are too and we have no plans to take over Lebanon. You are mixing everything up. The only real aim of Zionism is that the Jewish people will have a home in the Holy land. No one ever spoke about this or that specific territory because it's not that important. The conquest of additional parts of the holy land were a result of wars in which the arabs tried and failed to destroy us. They lost, we gained. Has nothing to do with Zionism.

Furthermore, Zionism has nothing to do with racism. It does not degrade you if you are not a Jew. We have over 1 million Israeli arabs living in Israel and the vast majority of them are muslim. They live a normal life and a far better one than they might have under any other arab regime. It's not something I am saying, they say it.

I have a funny feeling that you don't really know what you are talking about and just recycling stuff you read or heard.


RE: Israel
By Stonewall123 on 11/26/2009 6:31:04 PM , Rating: 2
Yeh, YOU have no plans to take over Lebanon, especially since Hezbollah kicked the Zionists butt. Interesting you didn't disavow any plans to take over the whole west bank, and what about all the Palestians being kicked out of Jerusalem?


RE: Israel
By Yaron on 11/27/2009 4:23:14 AM , Rating: 2
Are on you meth? You do live in a dream world don't you?


RE: Israel
By Stonewall123 on 11/28/2009 10:51:57 AM , Rating: 2
The Palestinians losing their homes in Jerusalem by you "peace loving" Zionists are living a nightmare. You should stop drinking Zionist Kool-Aid.


Too bad Chillin' didn't write article
By Lord 666 on 11/24/2009 10:11:21 AM , Rating: 2
Would have been interesting read from an Israeli perspective




RE: Too bad Chillin' didn't write article
By spread on 11/24/2009 10:20:06 AM , Rating: 2
Stupid Americans give away more stuff, news at 11 after the Latke hour.


RE: Too bad Chillin' didn't write article
By SoulBlighter on 11/24/2009 10:24:20 AM , Rating: 2
I wont be surprised if i see Chinese version coming 4-5 years after exported to Israel.


By BruceLeet on 11/24/2009 10:35:29 AM , Rating: 2
J-10

The J-10 is way overpowered, and imbalanced compared to the F35...PATCH IT NOW DICE!


RE: Too bad Chillin' didn't write article
By scrapsma54 on 11/24/2009 10:28:19 AM , Rating: 1
Oh really? I'm sure Europe gave us the united states, and we kicked their ass when they wanted to take back it from us.


By FITCamaro on 11/24/2009 12:41:08 PM , Rating: 2
What? Are you implying that Europe should own the US? Or commenting on how the Allies after WW2 created Israel?


RE: Too bad Chillin' didn't write article
By HaB1971 on 11/24/2009 11:22:32 AM , Rating: 3
I'll get shot down for this but hear goes.

To reference previous articles about cancelled development of a second engine manufacturer for this aircraft and to butcher an Eddie Muprhy joke.

Israel orders an F35 II.
However, the Israel notices that something is wrong.
So they call the Pentagon over.
"Can you please fly the Plane?"
"What's wrong with the Plane?"
"Just fly it."
"Why, is the plane to slow?"
"Just fly it."
“Sir – I…"
"Just fly it."
"Fine, I'll fly the plane. Where's the Engine?"
“A-ha!!”


By FITCamaro on 11/24/2009 12:42:06 PM , Rating: 2
Except the engine wasn't cancelled.

But yes Coming to America was an awesome movie.


Yey!! We're getting those F35 at last!
By Yaron on 11/24/2009 5:51:54 PM , Rating: 2
Now how cool is that?! :)
And we are even getting an "Israeli" customizable version! Ha!
I wish we would already have it now as we would probably made good use of it (Iran).

Few remarks:
- Israel is very good at building some of these military systems. Some are as good as American systems, some not as good and some a little better. But in a broad view, no one can really surpass American Tech. The US has more experience, more knowledge, more talented people and more money. What we (Israel) can do, is tailor systems to our own needs and these systems can have some advantages.

- The US made bradely is a kick-ass weapons platform. Anyone saying anything else is either ill informed or has an agenda. It has proven itself many times in combat and that's the only thing that matters.

Gotta love the US!




RE: Yey!! We're getting those F35 at last!
By Stonewall123 on 11/25/2009 6:31:11 PM , Rating: 2
Israel does love the U.S. because we are their puppet.


RE: Yey!! We're getting those F35 at last!
By Yaron on 11/26/2009 12:53:29 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah yeah, whatever chump.


By Stonewall123 on 11/26/2009 3:52:58 PM , Rating: 2
glad you agree


By TerranMagistrate on 11/24/2009 2:42:03 PM , Rating: 4
Since our U.S. government insists that we've no need for the air superiority fighter (F-22A) we should offer it to the Israeli air force perhaps in a slightly modified version. They certainly have the need for it now and even moreso in the future.

As with the F-15, the IDF would set new records with the F-22A in regards to air dominance over the enemy.




Didn't you miss the UK off?
By KingConker on 11/24/2009 3:11:36 PM , Rating: 2
I thought the UK was placing a large order and was also working to develop the plane - probably as it's a being pitched at least in the UK as a direct replacement for the BaE Harrier?




F-35 is amazing.......
By kellygms on 11/25/2009 2:02:47 AM , Rating: 2
F-35 is very advance fighter plan,i have no debut that this plan gave a powerful impact on war result.

<a href="http://www.goarticles.com/cgi-bin/showa.cgi?C=2256...">Acai Flex Factor</a>




S300
By dhalilahma on 11/25/2009 7:33:02 AM , Rating: 2
Israel needs the F35 quick because there is a chance Iran will be getting the S300 (SA-20 Gargoyle)from Russia. The deal has been halted due to 'technical' (read political) difficulties, but should Iran get the S300 Israel's old junk would fall out the sky 250 miles before it even saw Iran. Then the wait is on till 2015 when the F35's get delivered and by then if Iran wanted it would have a nuke on a long range missile hidden enough to survive any Israeli strike.

Real strategists know that Iran would never nuke Israel unless in retaliation. What Israel worries about is losing dominance in the ME to a rising Iran (thank the invasion of Iraq for that)

Furthermore there is a very real option for Israel to make peace with the Palestinians and gain complete normalization with the Arab world should it decide to hand over what it’s taken since 67'. So far Israel doesn’t even want to stop taking more land let alone handing land over. Too bad for them, it’s a big mistake. Attacking Iran will be a VERY big mistake for Israel and the US.




Secrets revealed
By crystal clear on 11/25/2009 10:23:03 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Israeli built systems including command, control, communications, computer, and intelligence systems could be integrated into a unique version of the F-35 specifically for Israel.


Ever wondered what it could be ?

Very simple nothing else but a few PS3 (cluster) that runs on an in-house developed Linux-based OS.

Behind those flashy terminologies is nothing but a (few) PS3.

The US Air Force plans to buy a whopping 2200 PlayStation 3 games consoles which it will use to expand an existing PS3-based supercomputer.

The current cluster of consoles contains 336 PS3s, each connected by their RJ45 ports to a common 24-port Gigabit Ethernet hub, Air Force online documentation states.



http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/11/25/ps3_superc...




By anandtech02148 on 11/25/2009 8:22:18 PM , Rating: 2
If Bernie Maddoff didn't funnelled all his money to the jews, or Goldman Sachs corporate welfare scams,
USa is helping them with 2009 stealth fighters against neighbors with 1960s soviet hardwares. Good job aholes.
And where does the United States get their military research fundings? courtesy of your well behaved tax paying citizens and a giant loan from China.
All this is laughable when a $1million missile can knock out your "stealth" "air superiority" $50million plane.
learn math Us of aholes.




By ipay on 12/1/2009 1:19:45 AM , Rating: 2
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id...
Title: "The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy"




By DestruyaUR on 12/1/2009 1:42:28 AM , Rating: 2
Israel will reverse-engineer and sell off technology to the highest bidder, or this is a ploy by us to have the Israelis fix a plane for us that should've been flying already.

200 billion (now 245b and that's what's general knowledge) bill signed by Bush mere days after 9/11 for a plane that was supposed to be flying in 5-7 years' time. It's a POS that's "too expensive to fail" at this point and can't carry comparable weapon loads without using stealth-compromising external racks.

We sell these to the Israelis and the Saudis will begin buying Euro/Russian.

Every interview with the F-35 test pilots call the JSF "a pilot's airplane." The problem is, that's not a compliment for a warplane. It's a compliment for something like a Cessna. Something that's "fun to fly" but you wouldn't dream of putting your life on the line in.




this isnt normal for isreal
By rika13 on 11/24/2009 11:20:22 AM , Rating: 1
the new (isreal and turkey are new friends, fearing demoncraps will pull out and leave them to the arabs since the Red Menace is gond) norm for isreali and turkish aircraft (and other vehicles) is the airframes are made in turkey, right outside ankara, and then isreal stuffs them full of IMI goodness

this seem to be normal for turkish weaponry, they tend to not invent or create but build and let others do the thinking (why pay for research when you can buy/copy/steal your own weapons)




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