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The government may create another way for workers to find their way to the U.S.

Politicians and Silicon Valley companies continue to work together as they try to create a fair method to bring more skilled foreign workers into the United States.

"Every day the American economy is losing ground - not to mention high-tech jobs and technologies - to India and China because foreign-born entrepreneurs cannot secure a visa to stay in the US," said Congressman Jared Polis, who supports a new start-up visa designed for foreign workers who have "good ideas."

In early November, just 46,700 of the 65,000 allocated H-1B visa applications had been filled for the 2010 work year -- the 20,000 visa cap designed for foreign students in the U.S. who have a master's degree or higher did reach the 20,000 quota.

It may seem like a good idea to create a new visa proposal, but tech companies likely aren't going to support such a movement when the economy is bad.  The lack of Silicon Valley support will lead many talented developers to stay in their native homeland, with travel to and from the United States only when necessary.

Polis and other politicians seem to be interested in updating the U.S. government's EB-5 visa system -- officially introduced in 1990 -- and offers 10,000 visas, but applicants must be able to create 10 full-time jobs and have $1 million capital ready to invest.  Instead of $1M, foreign entrepreneurs will have to receive $100,000 from an "angel investor," or $250,000 from a VC firm.  

If a candidate meets those requirements, they must then prove they'll be able to create between five and 10 jobs, along with $1M in revenue.



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wait a minute
By Stan11003 on 1/4/2010 3:15:05 PM , Rating: 3
My IT team has had major layoffs. There are a lot of IT guys who have been looking for jobs for years some even just gave up and went on to do other things.




RE: wait a minute
By amanojaku on 1/4/2010 3:30:07 PM , Rating: 5
This isn't giving money or visas to businesses to hire foreign workers. This is giving visas to foreign entrepreneurs looking to create a business in the US. Those entrepreneurs will have to bring their own funds into the US and then visas will be allocated to the start-up.


RE: wait a minute
By HighWing on 1/4/2010 3:50:38 PM , Rating: 3
the point is that it is still bringing in foreigners to do something people here in this country are also trying to do. They only difference is my taxes help pay for this person to do what I want to do, yet I can't get the same money to do it. And this person will then also compete against me. Being a White Male I am at the bottom of the list for any SBA loans/help, (not saying it's impossible). It is rather frustrating, if not upsetting, to see people coming from out of the country get more help from my govt and banks then they are willing to give me when I was born here.


RE: wait a minute
By amanojaku on 1/4/2010 4:06:56 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
the point is that it is still bringing in foreigners to do something people here in this country are also trying to do. They only difference is my taxes help pay for this person to do what I want to do, yet I can't get the same money to do it.
If you are an American with a good business plan you are eligible for the same loans as a foreigner. This program does nothing financially for the visa holder; it grants a visa. And your taxes aren't paying for it if the person has to have at least $100,000 of his/her own money. I'm sure the visa is paid for out of that.
quote:
And this person will then also compete against me.
It's called capitalism: it's a free market where any citizen or legal resident can compete. Get a better business plan and find investors.
quote:
Being a White Male I am at the bottom of the list for any SBA loans/help, (not saying it's impossible). It is rather frustrating, if not upsetting, to see people coming from out of the country get more help from my govt and banks then they are willing to give me when I was born here.
Untrue, as that would be discrimination, which is against federal law. SBA loans are granted at the discretion of a bank or venture capitalist firm based on viability as proven by the business plan.

You're complaining that a foreigner may be given the opportunity to give YOU a job. And nine other people just like you. Last time I checked, US companies are taking your jobs away and sending them someplace else. Your enemy isn't the foreigner, it's that guy in the corner office who just slashed American 2,000 jobs rather than take a pay cut or a hit to his bonus.


RE: wait a minute
By NesuD on 1/4/2010 6:40:55 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Untrue, as that would be discrimination, which is against federal law. SBA loans are granted at the discretion of a bank or venture capitalist firm based on viability as proven by the business plan.


Right it is discrimination and it happens to white males in this country every day. Any time a well qualified white male is passed over in the name of diversity discrimination has occurred and if you think SBA loans are based exclusively on the viability of a business plan you better look again.


RE: wait a minute
By afkrotch on 1/4/2010 6:48:11 PM , Rating: 3
Yep, SBA loans are mostly based on skin color, nationality, sex, and religion. Cause those mean more than being able to repay the loan.


RE: wait a minute
By HighWing on 1/4/2010 8:26:51 PM , Rating: 2
no one ever said "mostly based" other then you. I only said that it does play a part, which is true, I never said how big.


RE: wait a minute
By rdawise on 1/4/2010 11:23:13 PM , Rating: 2
Where do you get your information:

quote:
Right it is discrimination and it happens to white males in this country every day


I am extrememly curious, but have you EVER applied for a SBA loan?


RE: wait a minute
By HighWing on 1/4/2010 6:42:54 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
it's that guy in the corner office who just slashed American 2,000 jobs rather than take a pay cut or a hit to his bonus.


I agree with you there, but nothing you said changes the fact that the intention of this program is to bring in foreigner's and help them to do something hundreds of thousands of people in THIS country are trying to do. And that is what I do not agree with.

quote:
"Being a White Male I am at the bottom of the list for any SBA loans/help"
Untrue, as that would be discrimination, which is against federal law


First off I didn't say I could not get a SBA Loan, just that others are given priority over me because I am a white male. And illegal or not, it still "does" happen only it's not called discrimination. It happens under the guise of minority benefits. Go to any SBA office and/or bank loan official, and they will tell you the same thing, race/ethnicity "does" play a part in SBA loans. I was actually told by more then one person that I would have better chances at getting more help if I got an Indian Female to be a partner. Now how do you explain that one if as you say it is discrimination and not true?


RE: wait a minute
By afkrotch on 1/4/2010 10:32:00 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I agree with you there, but nothing you said changes the fact that the intention of this program is to bring in foreigner's and help them to do something hundreds of thousands of people in THIS country are trying to do. And that is what I do not agree with.


The intention of this program is to allow a foreigner to come in and setup a business. Where is this helping them? This isn't a "here's a visa and some duckets of cash."

Hell, it's more of a limitation than an American already has. Unlike an American, they have to have money and have to have X amount of employees. Unlike the foreigner, I get to setup my business and have me as the only employee.

quote:
First off I didn't say I could not get a SBA Loan, just that others are given priority over me because I am a white male.


Where is the problem then? You can get a loan. Top of the list, bottom of the list. Does it matter if you can get a loan?

Also, it seems minorities need the help anyways. Did you know that over 80% of small businesses are owned by the white population?

Seems white ppl get more loans then the minorities to me.


RE: wait a minute
By SlyNine on 1/5/2010 3:28:04 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Also, it seems minorities need the help anyways. Did you know that over 80% of small businesses are owned by the white population?


So that means it's okay to help someone over me?

Yea their are other factors that played in to that 80%, Like a higher chance of being poor. But that doesn't mean some whites are not poor and don't suffer from the same limitations.

If their is something unfair about how the person grew up, and you want to help them out that's great, but don't base it on race. Because you leave out a lot of white people that grew up in extremely shity situations that "had almost no hope" and could use that help as well.


RE: wait a minute
By afkrotch on 1/5/2010 7:33:15 PM , Rating: 2
Look up redlining and see how much of an issue it still is to this day. Then tell me Mr. White Man requires any more help than Mr/Mrs Minority.

If both are poor, then does it really matter much about help? Odds are high, neither are going to be getting loans anyways.

But hey, what do I know. Being Mr. Asian growing up in a predominatly white area, where even the poor white man, had more help than I.


RE: wait a minute
By SlyNine on 1/10/2010 2:01:41 AM , Rating: 2
Really, and what help would that be. Do you even know how affirmative action works? You get better odds at obtaining government jobs and federal ad, along with more scholarships and money for college.

My guess is you never even bothered looking. This has nothing to do with bankloans.


RE: wait a minute
By SlyNine on 1/10/2010 2:11:03 AM , Rating: 2
Bottom line, Its wrong when race plays ANY part of it.

But all you can see is a "white" person saying he might have been discriminated against. Oh no did that blow your own personal reality up???

If a job with affirmative action has one opening, you and I both apply and have equal qualifications, you AUTOMATICALLY get the job because you're Asian, or you're a women, and if you're both then that increases your odds over others that would have applied.

So once again, when race is a factor, it is discrimination, plain and simple.

The problem seems to be to many people don't care about equal rights, just their own rights. AKA women's rights, minority rights. Shouldn't they just be everyone's rights, why should someone have rights just for there group, and isn't that in and of its self discrimination.

I propose rights for whites, or men's rights. But now that's not PC even tho women's rights and black rights is. Its a double standard.


RE: wait a minute
By HighWing on 1/5/2010 3:41:11 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Where is this helping them?


The giving them the visa is the help. Quite honestly if the person already has $100k in start up cash for a business, I don't see why they then need a speed pass visa. Plus I would bet money that they would also be bringing friends and family to help them start up rather then hiring Americans. I know personally if it were me, I would rather want someone I trust to help me start up over some new stranger. Any who the "rest" of the help I am implying to is the aforementioned priority given to non white males.

quote:
Where is the problem then? You can get a loan. Top of the list, bottom of the list. Does it matter if you can get a loan?


The problem is this situation; Suppose a white male and a minority both submit similar business plans that are equally viable, (lets say a restaurant, because this DOES happen often) the minority is automatically going to win. And only because they are a minority. THAT is the problem, it's discrimination and supposed to be illegal.

quote:
Seems white ppl get more loans then the minorities to me.


Just throwing out all other reasons for why that is (since you seem to have), how does that still make it right to then deny any further white males any loans in favor of minorities? Now if they get it because they are poor or something along that line, then say that. But to do it just because of the color of their skin and/or ethnicity is exactly what we are taught is wrong and not to do. Yet it happens anyways.

If the color of your skin and/or ethnicity is a factor, then it's discrimination and supposed to be illegal. Just because it happens to a non-minority, doesn't change that it's still discrimination. Yet we seem to think that since it benefits a minority then it's ok. Does that really make any sense?


RE: wait a minute
By afkrotch on 1/5/2010 7:53:14 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The problem is this situation; Suppose a white male and a minority both submit similar business plans that are equally viable, (lets say a restaurant, because this DOES happen often) the minority is automatically going to win. And only because they are a minority. THAT is the problem, it's discrimination and supposed to be illegal.


Both would get a loan. The real world? Depends on location. Some regions, minority wins out. Majority of the regions, white male wins out.

quote:
Just throwing out all other reasons for why that is (since you seem to have), how does that still make it right to then deny any further white males any loans in favor of minorities? Now if they get it because they are poor or something along that line, then say that. But to do it just because of the color of their skin and/or ethnicity is exactly what we are taught is wrong and not to do. Yet it happens anyways

If the color of your skin and/or ethnicity is a factor, then it's discrimination and supposed to be illegal. Just because it happens to a non-minority, doesn't change that it's still discrimination. Yet we seem to think that since it benefits a minority then it's ok. Does that really make any sense?


The world is not a perfect place and there's a hell of a lot more discrimination on my end, than on Mr. White male's end.

Women and minorities tend to get paid less doing equal jobs as white males. Women and minorities tend to get less loans than white males. Minorities tend to get lower credit limits. Minorities tend to get higher interest rates on credit cards, loans, car loans, etc. Minorities tend to be charged more for property insurance.

Do I think discrimination/racism is okay? No. Do I care about some discrimination against the white male when getting a business loan? Not really.

Read up on racism, then come back and tell me why I should care that a white male might not be prefered over a minority or female when getting a business loan.


RE: wait a minute
By SlyNine on 1/10/2010 2:22:05 AM , Rating: 2
Sorry wrong, in reality there is not unlimited loans to go to everyone.

What type of legal discrimination do you face? There is none that prevents you from getting a job equally to someone else (unless you're male, then women get jobs, college help, and government aid ahead of you). Affirmative action helps you. In fact ANY government aid that race plays a part in helps YOU.

You have no grounds for saying you face more discrimination. Certainly you provide no qualifiers other then you're own unproven statistics that are flawed beyond belief.

Yea, in the past whites have had more help and are typically in the higher classes. But that doesn't mean a white child born today is going to have more of an advantage or going to be in a high class family. But simply because other whites are, he's going to be put at an even BIGGER disadvantage then you. A white child growing up in the same situation as you is at a BIGGER disadvantage ( for reasons already mentioned, but I'm sure you'll forget them to your convenience.). Interest and credit is not decided by color at all, however sex plays a part in insurance.

You paid more simply because some statistic said guys have 10% more fines then girls, but the statistic doesn't take in to account if guys drive 10% more then girls. Example of flawed statistics used to discriminate against men.


RE: wait a minute
By Chiisuchianu on 1/4/2010 7:30:33 PM , Rating: 1
I can't believe you really tried to pretend that "discrimination" doesn't happen because it is illegal. Everyone knows that liberals are above the law. They are allowed to murder (abortion), discriminate (affirmative action), and the list goes on.


Why the U.S. is falling behind
By omgwtf8888 on 1/4/2010 5:06:53 PM , Rating: 2
China and India do not support the same education burden that we in the U.S. do. In these countries they reward excellence and cut underperforming individuals out of the educational process. Picture if we did not have to invest in the excessively costly inner city education system. With a poverty level of 30% India shuns its poor and its national literacy rate hovers around 60% (worse for women). Only 40% of children in India attend secondary school.

The United States has planted a seed in that striving to move the entire populace forward will in the end payoff in staggering proportions.

China and India will soon have to pay the price of leaving half of their populations uneducated and in squallor.




RE: Why the U.S. is falling behind
By afkrotch on 1/4/2010 7:25:47 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The United States has planted a seed in that striving to move the entire populace forward will in the end payoff in staggering proportions.


How so? No matter how I look at it, every country requires those on the low end of the pole. Not everyone can be at the top. A pyramid sitting upside down just simply doesn't work.

The benefits that China and India have is that half their population may be uneducated and in squalor, but they'll also take pretty much any job for crap wages.

What happens if everyone in the states has a Master's degree? The job market at the top becomes highly competitive. Course with only so many openings, ppl will not get hired. They'll have to take a crap job with crap wages. This in turn will pretty much lead to them living in squalor, as they'll be paying back their college loans.

You also run into the problem of Americans sitting on a high horse. "I'm an American. I have a Master's Degree. I can't possibly be busting tables or being a garbage man." They'll also be overqualified for many other jobs, so off to the unemployment office they go.


By Omega215D on 1/4/2010 8:55:00 PM , Rating: 2
Funny because in NYC being a garbage man is a good way to earn a living. Good wages, great benefits, and a nice retirement package.

Same goes for those delivery guys in the big brown trucks or the postal people. Decent jobs for those who don't want to go to college.

As for me as long as they pay me a decent salary (depending on job) I'll be happy. Of course I don't plan on being at UPS forever...


RE: Why the U.S. is falling behind
By jithvk on 1/5/2010 7:53:05 AM , Rating: 2
I will say that you got your stats from some wrong sources.
http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/india_statisti...
Literacy of youth (below 24 years) is 81%.

quote:
In these countries they reward excellence and cut under performing individuals out of the educational process.

quote:
The United States has planted a seed in that striving to move the entire populace forward will in the end payoff in staggering proportions.


Still, 1Million engineers graduate from India each year. With all these "planted seeds", how many graduate in US?


RE: Why the U.S. is falling behind
By afkrotch on 1/5/2010 8:29:23 PM , Rating: 2
I don't see a problem with his stats if what he found was in 2007. The literacy rate is around 77% now. If you want to segregate it into age brackets, then we can follow your site.

For engineers. Could the fact that India having over 3 times the US population be a factor? How about the difference in what qualifies as an engineer for the respective countries?

Also the quality of Indian engineers can be pretty crap. Hence why so many organizations have been created to fix the situation. Majority aren't even worth as much as the piece of paper that says they graduated.

China had the same issues as India. Their fix? Get US educated Chinese back into China with lots of money and good labs. Problem, not much innovation still. Their school system doesn't teach "thinking outside the box." They still churn out more engineers than US and India combined.

Quality over Quantity is more important to the US, when it comes to engineers.


RE: Why the U.S. is falling behind
By jithvk on 1/5/2010 11:52:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Also the quality of Indian engineers can be pretty crap. Hence why so many organizations have been created to fix the situation.Majority aren't even worth as much as the piece of paper that says they graduated.


How do u measure quality of education?
If the quality is low now, its because of the fact that most of the Colleges and Universities in India and China are relatively new. (May be 10 Years or less). They will find out a way to improve the quality as they matures.

Also, don't compare quality of education with how good they use their English. Most of them have learned English just because they have English customers. For most of them, English is their second or third language.


By vectrav2 on 1/4/2010 11:22:15 PM , Rating: 5
The immigration system in the US is on auto pilot and has been for many years.
It would not matter if every single US citizen was unemployed the system would keep on its merry way importing the 125,000 foreign workers each month.
I think that all but humanitarian immigration to the US should be stopped without delay.
Let’s put our fellow citizens to work.




By TheEinstein on 1/5/2010 6:28:18 AM , Rating: 2
I very well agree sir, lets put America back together again before inviting the world to stay.

Worse, something no one else seems to have noticed, this new law would be about investments... a mere $100,000 of Angel fund investing... it's incredible. A decent Masters or Doctorate over seas can get that with ease. I mean EASE.

"I plan to open a Dental Clinic, profits will be..." = funded

"I plan to open a mechanics shop, profits will be..." = funded

"I plan to open a crappy 7-11, profits will be..." = funded

"I have a math trick for stocks..." = funded

"I plan to buy a property and rent from it..." = funded

I mean omfg this is a horrible idea. Not only that but invest 125k in the angel fund, then ask for a hundred thousand investment... instant loophole for cheaper immigration.


By cdiem on 1/4/2010 10:30:01 PM , Rating: 1
The Nasscom/Microsoft messaging machine just blows me away. Endless greed, George Bush policy tactics, plus bottomless ad dollars transform lies into the truth.

Why not give laid off American workers founders visas instead of foreign workers who have zero interest in hiring Americans. Look no further than DOL H-1B FLC reports, unemployment statistics, S887, and Employ America Act to discover the FACTS.

Americans put a man on the moon. AMERICANS are the solution to the economic crisis. Removing H-1B fraud, abuse and taking criminal and civil action will create an American hiring bonanza.




By gohaiga on 1/5/2010 3:20:09 AM , Rating: 2
Why would any Americans (laid off or not) need a founders visa? They are US citizens - they don't need a visa. They can start a company in the US and stay in the US as they wish. Only foreigners need the visa.

Also, you need to check your facts on putting a man on the moon. Many of the key scientists on NASA's Apollo program were immigrants, including Wernher von Braun who designed the Saturn V missile.

Immigrants have been a tremendous driving force behind US achievements in science, engineering, and medicine. We should open our doors wide to such talents.


Fair for whom... the US?
By BZDTemp on 1/4/2010 6:11:45 PM , Rating: 2
How about making it fair for the countries which loses those people after having spend resources for their education?

It is called "Brain drain" and it is one of the areas where we mooch on the developing countries. If it is to be fair then we should give back similar resources and if we do everyone will benefit in the long run.




By walterbyrd on 1/5/2010 11:15:36 AM , Rating: 2
I think the purpose of the visa is to create more foreign owned body shops - since that is about the only kind of "technology business" that I see coming from other countries.

The visa holders must create jobs - but for who exactly? These foreign owned body shops don't hire Americans, they hire guest workers from their home country.




Because
By Reclaimer77 on 1/4/10, Rating: -1
RE: Because
By Smartless on 1/4/2010 3:33:18 PM , Rating: 2
Not to mention we educate them and send them back to their country where they compete with us. haha. Not that I think its bad but its the same thing with OPEC and Dubai. We educated them in economics and now they got gold and oil by the balls.


RE: Because
By SigmundEXactos on 1/4/2010 3:37:02 PM , Rating: 2
Again, you didn't read the article. This is NOT for bringing in foreign workers to compete against US workers for jobs. This is to allow them to come and start companies. This will create jobs for Americans and is a good idea.


RE: Because
By HotFoot on 1/4/2010 3:41:49 PM , Rating: 2
To be fair, I don't think whoever wrote "The government may create another way for workers to find their way to the U.S." up at the top of the article read the article, either.

Seriously, though, why do people get so defensive about saving domestic jobs and then turn around and buy the cheapest crap sold at Walmart? I don't think you can have an employ-domestic policy without a buy-domestic policy.


RE: Because
By cmdrdredd on 1/4/2010 4:15:11 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Seriously, though, why do people get so defensive about saving domestic jobs and then turn around and buy the cheapest crap sold at Walmart? I don't think you can have an employ-domestic policy without a buy-domestic policy.


Because Panasonic, Samsung, and Sony are better than Zenith (oh right, Zenith doesn't exist anymore). You can't help going to a store and finding things made somewhere else cheap and sold for less than the counterpart made here. I know very few people who pay more on principle alone.


RE: Because
By Spivonious on 1/4/2010 4:52:45 PM , Rating: 2
Vizio FTW!

Seriously though, their new XVT line of TVs is getting great reviews.


RE: Because
By afkrotch on 1/4/2010 6:54:00 PM , Rating: 2
Vizio is only an American company in name. Their products are built in Asia.


RE: Because
By Spivonious on 1/6/2010 4:55:24 PM , Rating: 2
Every TV is made in China. You're kidding yourself if you think Sony, Samsung, et. al are still made in Japan.


RE: Because
By Omega215D on 1/4/2010 8:56:23 PM , Rating: 2
Technically it's LG now... so in essence it still exists and competes with Samsung and Sony.


RE: Because
By rdawise on 1/4/2010 11:25:34 PM , Rating: 2
Everything HotFoot just said needs to be read before posting. I thought the same thing about the author....


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