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Diesel cars are plentiful in Europe

As the demand for more efficiency in vehicles increases with the government and some consumers in the U.S., some drivers are starting to consider vehicles that previously weren't popular options. One of the efficient options that consumers are starting to take notice of is the diesel engine. Clean diesels are one of the technologies that several major automakers are now looking into.
 
The Detroit News reports that as of now diesel sales in the U.S. are less than 3% of the total sales, which is expected to change. One of the new diesel vehicles coming to the market is from a domestic manufacturer; Chevrolet will introduce a diesel version of Cruze in 2013. For GM, bringing the diesel Cruz to the U.S. has little risk since it already sells diesel cars in other countries.
 
The Chevrolet Cruze Diesel will arrive in '13 

Other automakers are looking to diesel cars as well with Mazda expecting to launch a new diesel engine in 2013, and the recipient is likely to be the all-new CX-5 small crossover utility vehicle. German automakers Volkswagen, Audi, BMW, and Mercedes all offer diesel-powered vehicles in the U.S.
 
Some suppliers to automakers like Robert Bosch LLC are predicting that diesel sales will grow to be 10% of the U.S. market over the next decade. Diesel cars are very popular in Europe where gasoline is expensive and diesel is more cost effective.
 
And it's not only economy cars that will be going diesel -- some performance cars are moving to diesel engines. BMW is expected to launch a diesel version of the M5 next year.
 
Mazda is widely expected to bring a diesel version of the new CX-5 to the U.S. 

The big draw for diesel engines is that the engines are often more durable, produce more torque, and they are 20 to 30% more efficient.

Source: Detroit News



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Can't wait
By FITCamaro on 11/28/2011 12:38:54 PM , Rating: 4
I want more diesels here. Great mileage and tons of fun.




RE: Can't wait
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 11/28/2011 12:44:11 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed! What are you driving these days, Fit? You still have the GTO?


RE: Can't wait
By FITCamaro on 11/28/2011 1:44:46 PM , Rating: 2
GTO for fun.

Saturn Vue for a beater. Gets good mileage and I can throw shit in the back for the house.


RE: Can't wait
By Samus on 11/28/2011 2:39:04 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Great mileage and tons of fun.


I agree. I think driving my friends Golf TDI is a lot of fun. The torque makes shifting easy and its really quiet on the highway. Overall superior driving experience for that class of vehicle.


RE: Can't wait
By Alexvrb on 11/29/2011 12:38:51 AM , Rating: 2
A lot of small diesels lack mid- and top-end power. This VW diesel is no exception. Low-end torque is great, but when your torque curve plummets after that, horsepower suffers. Don't get me wrong, I can't stand motors that are all top-end power, either. Civic Si is a good example, although the latest one isn't quite as terrible. But you really want a good balance of both. I mean, 140HP and 236 ft-lbs of torque? You know what that power curve looks like? It looks like crap.

The gasoline Golf 2.5L is significantly faster - and that's a primitive engine. I think the block is still cast iron. The Gold TDI is a premium trim with premium pricing. If they had a premium gas offering, they could use a small turbocharged direct injected gasoline engine and get a much more impressive balance of speed and mileage than either the TDI or the 2.5L.

Now with that said, diesels have their place. I'm still hoping that light-duty Duramax variant will see the light of day. If you're looking for maximum mileage, get the diesel. If you want to go fast, there's very few diesels that manage to beat comparable gas options in the same vehicle. But there are a few here and there, I'm sure.


RE: Can't wait
By Pneumothorax on 11/29/2011 8:50:32 AM , Rating: 2
I've had a 335d for almost 2 years now. Average 36 or so mpg and there is NO lacking in midrange power and will keep charging like. Locomotive towards it's redline. Main beefs with it is the lack of a manual tranny and the engine diesn sound as good as it's gasoline equivalent.


RE: Can't wait
By FITCamaro on 11/29/2011 1:49:30 PM , Rating: 2
Actually I was on VWs website last night and you can get a base Golf with a diesel and a 6 speed for just over $23K. If you add the "technology pack" and DSG it goes up. But that was just with things like cloth seats and the like. You didn't have to get the top trim Golf to get a diesel.


RE: Can't wait
By silverblue on 11/28/2011 1:01:02 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed. Also, for the moment anyway, diesels command higher resale prices - good if you're looking to upgrade.

Most newer diesels come with a turbocharger which means my little 2 litre 8v car is more efficient and easily more powerful than the 1.2l 8v petrol I used to have. Regardless of the engine size, the fact I'm using less fuel and can climb hills with ease is very important, not to mention far more satisfying. I hated my little petrol's inability to hold its speed up a moderate slope, and it had not even half the torque of my current car.


RE: Can't wait
By MonkeyPaw on 11/28/2011 1:42:11 PM , Rating: 2
I think that diesels definitely have their place in vans, trucks and SUVs, but the price of diesel is quite a bit higher right now vs regular 87. The power might be worth it, but there may not be much savings with the better economy when fuel prices are considered. Either way, I say bring em home!


RE: Can't wait
By Hieyeck on 11/28/2011 1:50:01 PM , Rating: 3
Umm.. you know European diesels pull about 60-70 mpg? That's double their equivalent gas models and still better than hybrids?


RE: Can't wait
By Shig on 11/28/2011 3:18:38 PM , Rating: 2
I've always thought of America as about free choice. Yet finding a solid diesel or hybrid that looks half way decent is almost impossible...Let alone natural gas, electric, fuel cell, and other exotic transport. The technology and resources are there, I wonder why these other 'choices' aren't more transarent or available, hmmm?


RE: Can't wait
By Shig on 11/28/2011 3:19:22 PM , Rating: 2
Spelling is hard =D


RE: Can't wait
By Solandri on 11/28/2011 6:03:02 PM , Rating: 2
1) EU mpg figures are based on the UK's imperial gallons, which is 4.55 liters. The U.S. uses liquid gallons, which are 3.79 liters.

2) The EU uses a different mileage testing cycle than the U.S., which involves much less stop-and-go and lower average highway speeds. Consequently, EU mileage ratings (or liters per 100 km, as they use there) are significantly higher than U.S. EPA mileage ratings. The 2011 CR-Z works out to 38.6 | 53.4 mpg by the two EU ratings (roughly, city | highway). Under EPA tests the same car gets the equivalent of 30.9 | 36.8 mpg.

3) Diesel contains more matter (and energy) per unit volume than gasoline. To equalize the two in terms of mass, you need to reduce diesel's mileage by about 12%. Diesel also emits more pollutants, and the recommendation to equalize for that is to reduce diesel's mileage by 20%.

TLDR version: Don't compare EU mileage to U.S. mileage, or diesel mpg to gasoline mpg. They're totally different.


RE: Can't wait
By Alexvrb on 11/29/2011 12:06:45 AM , Rating: 2
Trying to explain this to people over and over is like bashing your head against your desk repeatedly, while some jackoff tells you that the same desk in Europe would somehow cushion the impact and reduce the bleeding.

Even the TLDR version is too complex. I recommend resorting to grunts and chest thumps.


RE: Can't wait
By bbomb on 11/29/2011 1:00:58 PM , Rating: 2
And you can take around 10 mpg off the EPA estimate to get the real world MPG. They have never ever even been in the same ballpark as what the vehicle truly gets.


RE: Can't wait
By FITCamaro on 11/30/2011 8:13:10 AM , Rating: 2
I usually get over EPA estimates.


RE: Can't wait
By angryplayer on 11/30/2011 11:57:22 PM , Rating: 1
1 + 2. What? He's comparing EU vs EU. eg. Ford Mondeo - 65mpg vs 40 mpg (source: Ford Mondeo UK). OK, so he's embellishing, but that's still a whole 25mpg better. Converting is roughly 1 US mpg = 1.2 UK mpg (source: http://www.mpgtokpl.com/ ). 65 UK mpg is STILL 54 US mpg. Ridiculously bad hybrids like a Lexus LS 600h only have 25 US mpg using EU tests (source: Lexus UK). You'd have to compare to the smuggest of smugmobiles at 72 UK mpg, and frankly, the Prius is HIDEOUS compared to the new Fusions (rather nice for a run-of-the-mill family sedan) and I don't think that constitutes a COMPARison.

3. Assigning arbitrary percentages and swings to the environmental cost of diesel? Well, this was about $/m, but hey, let's play YOUR game. I could argue that because Diesel is denser, it is therefore more efficient to transport, requiring 40% less trucks to deliver the same number of miles produced. And how the hell does pollutants affect mpg? Even if we used your silly equivalency numbers 60% more miles delivered -12% -20% is still 28% more miles delivered, still outweighing the extra 10% cost (some places sell diesel 20% CHEAPER, so there's some benefit of doubt in your favor).

Also, did you know that gasoline is worse than gasoline? Wait, what? Yep. Mythbusters, season 9, episode 13. OK, Mythbuster numbers aren't the best, but they give a rough idea. Apples and oranges!

TL;DR: If you're going to bash someone, at least do the research. Also, apples and oranges.

PS Don't nitpick my percentages, i.e. how 60% should acutally be 62.5%. My issue is there's no demonstratable evidence (as opposed to accuracy/precision) for Solandri's percentages.

PPS silly spam filter.


RE: Can't wait
By sigmatau on 11/28/2011 9:18:34 PM , Rating: 2
Actualy they don't pull 60-70 mpg. I don't believe any diesel in Europe can pull that in the US. You must be using non-US measurements/testing which is way off.


RE: Can't wait
By gvaley on 11/29/2011 8:10:21 AM , Rating: 2
I drive the 2004 Citroen C5 2.0 litre diesel in Europe (think Hyundai Sonata, I think you call this "a compact" in the US although in Europe that's a huge car) and I get 43 mpg (US) on a mixed highway/intercity road, although if I try really hard I can get it up to 52 mpg (or down to 36 at constant 81 mph). I get twice as less in the city but I'm talking a really congested city here.

Just wanted to give you a point of reference. A segment C car (think Golf) will get a much better mpg with a similar engine.

PS.
You owe me a beer for working hard to convert l/100 km to mpg.


RE: Can't wait
By Camikazi on 11/29/2011 9:35:22 AM , Rating: 2
Hyundai Sonata is considered a mid to full size car in the US. The Elantra is their compact with the Accent being the subcompact.


RE: Can't wait
By Calin on 11/29/2011 6:18:26 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, but the European (UK) gallons are bigger too


RE: Can't wait
By Camikazi on 11/29/2011 9:31:17 AM , Rating: 2
60-70 Imperial gallons, not US gallons, go check the differences :)


RE: Can't wait
By sigmatau on 11/28/2011 9:16:18 PM , Rating: 2
Diesels have good low end torque. I never drove one so I can't say if it's fun or not but judging from what BMW offers, it must be nice.

I hope they don't chicken out like Honda did and not bring the diesel to the US. Honda was supposed to have a diesel in the US a few years ago.

I am glad diesels (for passenger vehicles) are much cleaner than they used to be. I will say that diesel trucks are some of the dirtiest crap on the road now. I'm guessing these diesels are either really old or there is something wrong with them. I can smell a dirty diesel about 3-4 miles away if I am behind one. The day they go away would be awesome. Or maybe they can just clean up the exhaust somehow.


RE: Can't wait
By jayfang on 12/1/2011 8:32:24 AM , Rating: 2
Last few months driving a Mazda 6 Sport with 180 bhp 2.2 litre (R2 series) diesel motor. Surprising smooth, revs easily and the 300 lb-foot torque has a real overtaking kick.

And even even compared to
* Honda Civic Type-R EP3 (2.0L petrol 200 bhp)
* BMW 318i (2.0L petrol 146 bhp)
Genuinely FUN

In actual use seeing economy very close to that listed at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_Diesel_engine#R... (actual 48 mpg vs 50mpg imperial rating)


RE: Can't wait
By Reclaimer77 on 11/29/2011 1:51:30 AM , Rating: 2
Except this isn't Europe. Diesel can be up to $1 gallon higher than regular fuel here in the U.S.

So not only are the vehicles more expensive than regular gas versions, but the fuel is too. Errr, win-win?


RE: Can't wait
By EVdriver on 11/29/2011 5:07:03 PM , Rating: 2
Diesels are way LESS efficient than gasoline hybrids, more polluting than gas cars, maintenance costs are much more higher than gas cars and diesel fuel is more expensive than gas.
Diesel is a dead end.


definitely.
By Argon18 on 11/28/11, Rating: 0
RE: definitely.
By Gungel on 11/28/2011 1:27:06 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
They get nearly double the $ when they sell that gallon of diesel to Europe, compared to selling it in the US.
No they can't. Prices are higher in Europe because of higher taxes added to gasoline and diesel fuels than here in the U.S.


RE: definitely.
By mcnabney on 11/28/2011 1:54:52 PM , Rating: 3
Current price at the pump in my midwestern city:

Regular unleaded - $2.95/gallon
Diesel - $3.85/gallon

While diesels are generally more efficient, they aren't THAT much more efficient. Especially when European stats are adjusted for Imperial/US gallons and the extra 500 pounds of safety equipment are added on.

/still wouldn't mind more diesel choices


RE: definitely.
By FITCamaro on 11/28/2011 2:13:27 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah lowest I've seen here is $3.03 for regular (Shell) and about $3.80 for diesel.


RE: definitely.
By icrf on 11/28/2011 5:50:39 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, better fuel economy doesn't necessarily mean cheaper to operate when changing fuel types. I saw something about Nissan making a 14:1 compression gas engine, for efficiency, when that will almost surely require 92 octane.

Maybe it's all about CAFE standards compliance and not TCO at all.


RE: definitely.
By ClownPuncher on 11/28/2011 7:57:18 PM , Rating: 2
Diesel doesn't cost more to produce, actually it costs less. The price difference is artificial.


RE: definitely.
By abzillah on 11/28/2011 10:49:06 PM , Rating: 2
The cheapest gas I can find in California is $3.65 for regular.

FITcamaro now I understand why you are so conservative, because you only pay $3.03 for gas.


RE: definitely.
By Pneumothorax on 11/29/2011 9:27:03 AM , Rating: 2
What's funny is that here in California (IMHO one of the most anti-diesel states), through a combination of taxes and not using heating oil as the east, diesel is only about 10c more expensive than premium, which would the fuel I'd be using in my BMW anyway. While I like the fuel economy, I bought my car more for the instant torque and not having to rev up to 4000 rpm to have good passing power uphill.


RE: definitely.
By FITCamaro on 11/28/11, Rating: 0
RE: definitely.
By corduroygt on 11/28/2011 2:40:46 PM , Rating: 2
Plus there are disadvantages to diesels, such as a usually heavier and more complicated engine. The block and the pistons would last forever but the turbos and the high pressure DI systems have higher maintenance costs.


RE: definitely.
By Spuke on 11/28/2011 10:15:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The block and the pistons would last forever but the turbos and the high pressure DI systems have higher maintenance costs.
There is no maintenance on these systems.


RE: definitely.
By corduroygt on 11/29/2011 1:00:24 AM , Rating: 2
I consider "replacing it when it breaks" as maintenance :)


RE: definitely.
By Spuke on 11/29/2011 2:37:48 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I consider "replacing it when it breaks" as maintenance :)
This tech is already proven in pickup trucks and class 7/8 commercial tractors. I'm not worried and I have put my money where my mouth is and purchased a DI, turbo vehicle. I have nearly 100k on it and have only had one recall (rear differential seal) and a failed thermostat. It's the most reliable car I've ever owned. My so-called "less complicated" previous cars have had WAY more problems.


RE: definitely.
By JediJeb on 11/30/2011 1:24:35 PM , Rating: 2
If you consider that a diesel needs no ignition system then they are only as complicated or maybe less complicated as an equivalent gasoline engine. Used to be diesel engines were dirt simple compared to gasoline engines even with a turbo. My father was a school bus mechanic for 30 years and he was never so happy as when they switched from gasoline engines to diesel engines, and even didn't complain when they began to add computer engine controls to them, always said they were much better to work on.


RE: definitely.
By TSS on 11/28/2011 5:01:04 PM , Rating: 3
The diesel price here in holland (we have the most expensive gas prices in the world) is 1,37 euro a litre near here.

Which translates into $6,90 a gallon.

which compares to the 1,660 euro a litre average for Euro95, which comes to $8,37 a gallon.

Diesel used to be much cheaper, atleast half of gas. That's why diesels are used all over europe. But since 2008, the price of diesel has only gone up. And that's not completly due to taxes. More likely to do with more usage since gas was $11 a gallon at the oil high in 2008. Notably, we also have LPG gas which used to be around 30 eurocents a litre, but now is also toutching 80 cents a litre.

That's the reason why diesels are used so much in europe. I don't know anybody that doesn't drive a diesel. Funnily enough, if you want EV's to compete with the polo here, the price of diesel has to rise to around $8 a gallon. And that's considering elecricity is taxed around 35% here... but gas is taxed for 77%-80%.


RE: definitely.
By VERBW on 11/28/2011 8:12:28 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The diesel price here in holland (we have the most expensive gas prices in the world) is 1,37 euro a litre near here.


PETROL over here costs about £1.35. Diesel is currently about £1.41 at my most local station, and we're in the suburbs of London.

Convert GBP into EUR and you get... more


RE: definitely.
By silverblue on 11/29/2011 9:46:39 AM , Rating: 2
I think I read once that in Europe, diesel is more expensive than petrol in only two few countries, the UK and Switzerland. Unfortunately (in terms of fuel prices, that is!), I live in the former, and the petrol -> diesel price gap is starting to rear its ugly head again; it used to be about 3 or 4p and is now about 8p at my closest garage (I'm in Yorkshire), which, for reference, is £1.31 for 95 octane, and £1.39 for city diesel. In Germany, diesel is much cheaper, albeit diesel vehicles are taxed more, which isn't an issue if you're driving a decent amount of miles per year.

I really, REALLY wish it was €1.37 a litre, that'd be a huge cut.

Here's the Wiki link for reference, makes very sobering reading if you're a European:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_and_diesel_u...


So -
By Dr of crap on 11/28/2011 1:25:24 PM , Rating: 2
FOR YEARS the comments were
" The US car buyers DO NOT WANT diesels, and will not buy them"

And now suddenly they've changed their tune???
Or is it just a few cars to test the waters and as usual the reporters are making more out of it than it is!??!
NO, THAT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN!




RE: So -
By drycrust3 on 11/28/2011 1:49:03 PM , Rating: 2
Not being an American, I'd guess a lot depends on the cost to the end user. If the cost of diesel is comparable to petrol, then what is fashionable and doing the same as everyone else carries a lot of sway; but when the cost of petrol is much more than the price of diesel, then things like being slightly unfashionable and having to queue with the trucks at the petrol station are easily justified by saying you want to spend the money saved on treats for the kids.


RE: So -
By bobsmith1492 on 11/28/2011 3:12:25 PM , Rating: 2
The problem is diesel still costs a fair amount more than gas (petrol), some 20% more, so there's not a huge advantage for the diesel here.


RE: So -
By Spuke on 11/28/2011 10:21:46 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Or is it just a few cars to test the waters and as usual the reporters are making more out of it than it is!??!
IMO, the automakers are just testing the waters. There's hasn't been any significant uptick in sales of current diesel models although I'm going to reserve judgement until a few years after the diesel Cruze is on the market. That car should be an indicator of whether or not people have changed their minds about diesel in the US.


It's a slow educational process
By Beenthere on 11/28/2011 2:03:57 PM , Rating: 2
Most U.S. consumers are pretty technically challenged IME so it's going to take quite awhile for them to understand that turbo Diesels can be clean, quiet and deliver 40 mpg. It doesn't help that the EPA is doing all it can to discourage adoption of Diesels while promoting hybrids and impractical EVs. The U.S. requires the cleanest Diesel engines in the world.




RE: It's a slow educational process
By Spuke on 11/28/2011 10:23:23 PM , Rating: 2
IMO, 40 mpg diesels will not sell as long as there are cheaper 40 mpg gasoline cars.


RE: It's a slow educational process
By FITCamaro on 11/28/2011 10:39:39 PM , Rating: 1
Agreed. A diesel from ten years ago got around 50 mpg. Thank you to emissions standards for lowering it. However I don't completely believe the EPAs ratings for diesel mileage anyway. If you go on fueleconomy.gov, a 2006 diesel Golf is rated at 42 mpg and despite them even stating lower total emissions for the year, gets a rating of 1 out of 10 for pollution while the gas version which outputs more total pollution gets a 6 out of 10. Why? Bias?

Some report low to mid 50s on the highway for mileage on the current Golf diesel. I wouldn't doubt it. Of course some say they've gotten that out of a Chevy Cruze Eco too. But of course the diesel would be a lot more fun to drive with far more torque.


RE: It's a slow educational process
By Spuke on 11/28/2011 11:39:29 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
But of course the diesel would be a lot more fun to drive with far more torque.
I find that most people like that off the line shove that high torque gives. I'm not much into that. I enjoy hard acceleration at speed. Unfortunately, at the prices I'm willing to pay, the Corvette is the only acceptable factory car that meets my standards. Modded 135i/335i's are a little cheaper and quicker.


Stop the nonsense
By StanO360 on 11/28/2011 7:13:24 PM , Rating: 2
The whole condescending "Americans are too stupid to understand diesel" is absurd. We buy what makes sense based on our own personal economics.

Why would someone spend up to $5k more for a car that will never give a return on that difference? Understand that in the US a lot more diesel is used for trains and trucks. In addition it is more regulated, therefore more costly. There is a limit to the ratio of gas:diesel that can be taken from a barrel of oil and refiners boost that ratio based on consumer (including shippers) demands, thus altering the cost.

When diesels start to provide a greater value than the cost, we will buy them.




RE: Stop the nonsense
By Netjak on 11/29/2011 5:53:18 AM , Rating: 2
I agree 100%.
People are not stupid, just 101 economics.
Gas and diesel are higly taxed all over EU, translating to high cost of ownership so everybody buys small cars and/or diesel variants.
in real life scenario, u can drive petrol pickup for less money tnan most europeans pay for ford fiesta diesel...


RE: Stop the nonsense
By Dr of crap on 11/29/2011 8:55:06 AM , Rating: 2
Oh, yea of little common sense.
American's are WAY stupid!
As George Carlin said -
"Think about how stupid the average person is, and realize that HALF of the population is stupider than that!"

"Americans are too stupid to understand diesel" is absurd."

It's the same story, we look back to the 80's diesels and don't want them.
That was 30 years ago people. Yet it keeps coming back up again, and again.

Yes, I get that diesel gas is priced higher than gas and the diesel cars are higher priced as well, but let's put them out there to SEE IF THEY will sell. But I'm thinking the numbers will be low because of the STUPID people out there.

Remember there are such stupid people out there they will buy the over priced Volt just because!


We need hemp biodeisel
By quiksilvr on 11/28/2011 12:39:05 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not talking about the cannabis with THC; I am talking about hemp with virtually no THC and is currently being used in Canada and Europe extensively for paper, building materiel, food and fuel.

The sooner we open up the market for hemp, the sooner we can find some serious alternatives to the inefficient creation of resources we have now.




RE: We need hemp biodeisel
By ekv on 11/28/2011 10:06:56 PM , Rating: 2
Ordinarily, those promoting hemp have smoked a bit too much of it. However I'll grant you, begrudgingly, hemp does have merit in terms of biodiesel. I think sawgrass and jatropha might be somewhat better though. A couple links:

http://www.jatrophaworld.org/

http://www.centralbiodieselhtp.com/en/

http://www.dailytech.com/Researchers+Harvest+Enzym...


Any specs?
By Mr Perfect on 11/28/2011 1:46:10 PM , Rating: 2
Does anyone know the specs on the diesels that they're introducing? Aside from whatever mad torque monster BMW puts in the M5, are these all going to be small, boring economy engines?




RE: Any specs?
By jabber on 11/29/2011 6:31:38 AM , Rating: 2
They will probably do just fine for cruising along the highway at 65-70mph for the daily commute.

I think this is where folks need to make some changes. You have you dull ecno-box daily commuter that gives good gas milage/low carbon for the daily Monday to Friday work grind.

Then drive the V8 at the weekend and holidays.


finally.
By zodiacfml on 11/29/2011 11:11:01 PM , Rating: 2
diesel way better than a hybrid. porsche said years ago we will never see diesels in their lineup, yet, now they have.

toyota's hybrid is nice piece of design and everything but i don't believe much in a hybrid due to complexity, weight, and costs. it's luxury.




RE: finally.
By EVdriver on 11/30/2011 6:31:33 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
diesel way better than a hybrid.


On the contrary, diesel is a dead end. Diesels are way LESS efficient than gasoline hybrids, more polluting than gas cars, maintenance costs are much more higher than gas cars and diesel fuel is more expensive than gas.

quote:
don't believe much in a hybrid due to complexity, weight, and costs.


This is flat out wrong as well. Toyota HSD is LESS complex mechanically than a comparable diesel, much more reliable and weight less. Moreover an equally equipped diesel costs about the same or more than a hybrid.


Subaru
By euler007 on 11/28/2011 3:59:56 PM , Rating: 2
Meanwhile the Subaru executives are sleeping at the switch. They started marketing the boxer diesel in 2008 and then decided to sell it anywhere but North America.

Expect them to join the part two years after the Chevy Cruze. Incompetent fools.




By superstition on 11/28/2011 7:45:08 PM , Rating: 2
It's pretty fascinating that consumer demand is expected to rise for diesels given the huge price spread.

On I-75 near Fostoria Ohio diesel was going for $4.12 while regular unleaded was going for $3.03. That's a $1.09 price difference.

Add to that the way VW's high pressure common rail diesel pumps can fail (some owners have reported having more than one go out) and cause expensive fuel system damage and you're talking some serious impediments.

I used to think diesel was the way to go, but now it just seems like a recipe for throwing away money.




Hello McFord!!
By Stuka on 11/29/2011 11:41:33 AM , Rating: 2
Dear Ford,

Please bring the T6 Ranger to the US with a 3.0 diesel AND a 6spd manual and you will have my heart.

Love,
Truckless in Phoenix




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