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Old school gas meter  (Source: Times Online)
Smart meters will be rolled out over the next 10 years in the UK

The British government hopes every household in the country will be able to reduce energy bills and overall carbon footprint by installing a "smart meter" that will monitor energy use.  The country hopes to have every household installed with smart meters by 2020, though it's unknown if that's a realistic plan.

"The meters most of us have in our homes were designed for a different age, before climate change," according to Ed Miliband, British Energy Secretary.  "Now we need to get smarter with our energy."

The government hopes to have around 2.6 million houses each year install the new smart meters each year over the next 10 years, which will likely cost at least $10 billion USD each year, with total costs up to $12B -- each house costing between $411 and $529 to upgrade.

British government officials believe saving money will help them change how they use energy.  Along with having a better idea how it uses power, it's possible some homeowners will also purchase and install solar panels and wind power technologies for use in their home, as they'd be able to see the amount of energy being produced.

Citizens who use dishwashers, dryers, and other energy-hungry appliances will be rewarded when used during off-peak hours, the government said.

Furthermore, the British government became the first major country to set goals of greenhouse gas emissions, announcing it hopes to cut emissions up to 34 percent over the next 11 years compared to the country's 1990 numbers.

Smart meters are able to monitor energy consumption and transmit all vital information back to utilities companies, which helps saves resources and time, as the companies don't need to send employees door-to-door to read individual meters.  Just six percent of households in Europe have smart meters, though that number will range from 25 to 40 percent by 2010, analysts predict.

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You're Too Dumb
By captainpierce on 5/13/2009 7:41:59 AM , Rating: 5
A Smart Meter. Another tool to whip the dumb, uneducated masses into shape. Go Green!!!

(sarcasm)




RE: You're Too Dumb
By tmouse on 5/13/2009 8:19:49 AM , Rating: 3
I doubt this will have any real impact (green wise). While I guess it would be nice to have a on peak/off peak billing system, this could (in theory) distributes the power usage more evenly (which is good) but will not really decrease its usage. The vast majority will never change their habits so they will never "see" a difference. The people who would benefit are probably already doing things off peak. Many energy decisions are based on need like cooling during the summer days and heating on winter nights, so there would be little change there. Others are based on convenience, meals are served around certain times and while you can have set and forget cooking settings (for breakfast) is that safe while everyone is sleeping and would the end product be dry and tasteless, also some energy hungry appliances make a lot of noise; so late night may also be a undesirable time. I can see where it will save the companies money on manpower and slowing the need to build new power generation facilities but this is not really a "green " move.


RE: You're Too Dumb
By Souka on 5/13/2009 11:44:30 AM , Rating: 3
I seem to recall some smart applicances being used in the US...such as clothes dryers, washers, water heaters, heating, AC, etc...

The purpose was the appliance would be told to turn off for a minute here or there to alieviate heavy energy loads on the electrical grid...

I beleive the idea was that like 80% of the time the energy grid was at less than %40 load...but because of peak useage times power companies were spending huge sums to upgrade the capacity of the grid. Such appliances deployed in large scale would be useful..and avoid rolling blackouts altogether.

I wonder if such programs ever proved useful?


RE: You're Too Dumb
By tmouse on 5/13/2009 1:19:36 PM , Rating: 2
I do not think smart appliances would solve rolling brown outs. Many are caused when peak demand is reached like during business hours on hot days so you have home AC units and business demand together. The vast majority of AC units produced today have set points and start delays but most users keep the unit always on and on a low temperature. A smart unit may avoid this but to be marketable it would have to have an override and that would end up being the default. Otherwise people would be all over the web saying how the unit does not work when you really need it and it would not sell. Same with other appliances, you really would not want your washer to stop in the middle of a cycle, let's say doing whites when there is still bleach in the water, long exposure to the bleach would rot the elastic and weaken the fabrics. Smart appliances would help a bit but are only a small part and used mostly as a selling feature that is seldom used.


RE: You're Too Dumb
By Spuke on 5/13/2009 3:25:45 PM , Rating: 2
In CA, most A/C units are old, window mounted types because most of the homes out here are pretty old and don't have central A/C. These units don't have the ability to be shut off when the desired temperature is reached. SoCal temperatures are pretty moderate but when the Santa Ana winds hit, the temps get pretty damn hot for that area. And about 10 million people turn on their A/C units, old or otherwise. The grid here can't handle that.


RE: You're Too Dumb
By cheetah2k on 5/13/2009 9:40:53 PM , Rating: 2
In Australia we have a programe called the Climate Smart Home Service, where we pay a small charge of AU$50 to have an electrician install a remote sensing wireless handheld meter, and all incandescent bulbs (where possible) replaced by energy efficient lightbulbs.

I think its a great idea, particularly for waking up to the fact that TV's and other appliances sitting on standby mode still chew a considerable amount of energy, and this could be saved by simply pushing the off button on the appliance.

AU$50 is a small price to pay, when you could save up to $250 annually on your bill every year!

www.climatesmarthome.com


RE: You're Too Dumb
By tmouse on 5/14/2009 7:49:11 AM , Rating: 2
Well it would be better to replace them with newer models. The majority of AC units made since 2000 have temp set controls. I just picked up a 10,000 BTU window model with this and the timer feature for under $250.


RE: You're Too Dumb
By dug777 on 5/13/2009 8:28:47 AM , Rating: 1
I have to admit I find the concept quite exciting, and your meter will eventually need replacing in any event (especially if it's a disc-type one), so why not move to these?

They have the capacity to:

Give you a real-time usage figure (which primarily I reckon would be kinda neat, but think of the attitudinal/educational changes something like that could drive with kids, being able to much more clearly grasp the true cost of your power, particularly in conjuntion with time of use tariffs).

Allow for remote reads and disconnects/reconnects (which should drive cost of supply down).

Allow for direct load control (if desired, it could (in my mind should) be 'opt-in', and direct load control of devices has huge network benfits at peak usage times, with tests we have done suggesting end users don't notice things like cycling of AC compressors (if done right) and you can drive a very meaningful reduction in peak load (and thus peak infrastructure requirements, saving huge amounts of money).

As you may have guessed, I'm quite enthusiastic about the concept, and not for any evil 'green' reasons, unless you count the potential cost benefits as 'green' ;)


RE: You're Too Dumb
By FITCamaro on 5/13/2009 8:35:03 AM , Rating: 5
It also gives the government the ability to control how much power you use.

Thanks but no thanks. I'll set my own thermostat thank you very much. And decide if I want to lower my energy bill. If I want to keep my house at 60 degrees, I have the right to as long as I pay my bill.

For the record I typically keep my house at 78-80 in the summer.


RE: You're Too Dumb
By dug777 on 5/13/2009 8:47:09 AM , Rating: 2
I think that's a tad hysterical, but then that's just me ;)

I haven't seen any proposals that aren't 'opt-in', and they tend to involve things like direct load control over specific devices.

An excellent example is AC compressors. If the utility can control your AC compressor (while leaving the fan etc running), it can (on a synchronised basis accross a feeder or even on a larger scale) make dramatic inroads in peak consumption without affecting your personal comfort in any noticeable fashion (something we've demonstrated in trials here).

Any avoided peak capacity (both in terms of generation and T&D)can be worth a huge amount of money, and it's investment that might be used a few hours a year.

I would share your disgust at the concept that the government may limit your energy usage, providing you are prepared to pay for it, and to pay the true cost of producing and delivering it to you ;)


RE: You're Too Dumb
By Alexstarfire on 5/13/2009 9:49:41 AM , Rating: 5
It might be a tad hysterical now, but he's not saying they'd ever do that either. Just giving them the possibility to be able to do things like that is not in my best interest, and apparently not his as well.


RE: You're Too Dumb
By Ammohunt on 5/13/2009 2:01:53 PM , Rating: 4
I don't think its hysterical at all! How do you boil a frog? This is about control and nothing much more than that. For me i plan on installing a wood stove for heat in the winter and i cool my house with a swamp cooler in the summer. Do yourself a favor and start learning to not depend on society so much.


RE: You're Too Dumb
By Spuke on 5/13/2009 3:53:54 PM , Rating: 2
I have a swamp cooler and a pellet stove. Use the swamp most of the time and only use the A/C on humid days. The pellet stove, unfortunately, doesn't heat the whole house and would be far cheaper than propane which is pretty expensive.


RE: You're Too Dumb
By dug777 on 5/13/2009 6:52:23 PM , Rating: 2
I must admit I'd never expected quite this level of vitriol or paranoia ;)

Meters with these enhanced capabilities offer power companies the ability to charge you far more accurately for the true cost of your power.

Do we accept that power costs far more to generate at peak load periods than in off-peak periods? If you do (and I can assure it is the case on every developed grid in the world), then you must accept that a time-of use tariff is a far more efficient and accurate way of charging than an averaged flat-rate (and indeed, if tariffs are cost-reflective, should allow those users who can/want to shift loads to save money to do so).

Why should I (or anyone else) subsidise your peak AC usage through a flat rate? If I choose not to run AC and consume at peak periods, I'm being penalised in any flat rate system to build and supply your peak usage.

That's an entirely socialist concept, but it seems to be one many of you are concerned will be taken away by these meters (and you are right!).

You have every right to use as much power as you like, and no utility has any interest in preventing you from doing so (clearly, utility revenue structure is built around generating, delivering, and retailing power at a profit), but that is predicated on one critical caveat:

That the charging structure reflects the true cost to supply.

If it does, then increased demand from anyone should be no problem to address (that is, if the charging structure is correct, there is a model and structure for infrastructure growth to meet that demand, without limiting your energy consumption).


RE: You're Too Dumb
By Alexstarfire on 5/13/2009 7:41:46 PM , Rating: 2
I agree with the OP and you flame me anyway? Are you stupid?


RE: You're Too Dumb
By EvilBlitz on 5/14/2009 2:02:46 AM , Rating: 3
I think its hysterical that you might not use any technology out of the fear of how the govt might manipulate it against you.
Better stop using those phones, they could tap them.....
Better stop using EFTPOS or credit cards, they could track you with those....etc
If you want to be truly dependent and not reliant on society, why don't you live in a cave and subsistence farm.


RE: You're Too Dumb
By FITCamaro on 5/13/2009 10:22:22 AM , Rating: 2
When am I not paying the true cost to generate and deliver it to me?


RE: You're Too Dumb
By MrBungle123 on 5/13/2009 1:57:51 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
If the utility can control your AC compressor (while leaving the fan etc running), it can (on a synchronised basis accross a feeder or even on a larger scale) make dramatic inroads in peak consumption without affecting your personal comfort in any noticeable fashion (something we've demonstrated in trials here).


keep your "smart" meter, remote monitoring of my usage habits, possible [inevitable] government intervetion, and all the rest of this BS off my house.

why is it any of their business if I want to run my heater at 90 and all my AC units at the same time? It's not... Its my house... Its my money... GO AWAY.


RE: You're Too Dumb
By foolsgambit11 on 5/13/2009 3:13:26 PM , Rating: 2
That's fine. It's your house, it's your money. You don't have to pay attention to the smart meter. Of course, power is a commodity, and you don't really have to be provided it at all, in a truly free market. So maybe you should focus on producing all of your power needs on site.

But seriously, let's look at the situation practically.

Let's picture a world where consumption exceeds demand at certain times. In some places, this world is already a reality. The power companies essentially have two choices in providing their commodity to you. They can limit the power people can use to available supply (the brute force black out strategy), or they can reduce demand by increasing costs to the point where supply and demand are at parity.

The first option doesn't sound great. I hope we're in agreement that market forces are the best way to let the market equalize. Given that, the power company can charge everybody a single rate for total power consumption, but that is a blunt tool, and introduces major inefficiencies in the market. A better tool would be to allow price fluctuations according to demand occur in near-real time. In order for this method to work at peak efficiency, though, consumers need information about pricing at the time of use. This system provides that.

In all likelihood, most consumers will just ignore pricing, especially at first. It'll be like gas. For the most part, the day to day fluctuations in price don't effect any real change in consumption. But it's still more efficient than if the price of gas only changed every month. Imagine how dysfunctional the oil market would be if the price at the pump only changed every month!

There is a pilot program for these in South Florida, too.
http://green.tmcnet.com/topics/green/articles/2926...


RE: You're Too Dumb
By Murloc on 5/13/2009 12:38:19 PM , Rating: 1
80°C is good for a sauna, do you live in a metallic greenhouse?


RE: You're Too Dumb
By FITCamaro on 5/13/2009 12:49:06 PM , Rating: 4
Fahrenheit.


RE: You're Too Dumb
By arazok on 5/13/2009 8:42:20 AM , Rating: 2
We have these in some areas on Ontario. I was against it at first, but (so far) our government has been reasonable with it. They bill you different rates for using electricity at different times of the day. I’m billed an On-Peak ($.09Kwh), Mid-Peak (.06Kwh), and Off-Peak(.03Kwh) rate. People with old school meters are billed about 0.06Kwh 24/7.

Off peak times are weekends, holidays, and at night. I find that with no change to how I use power, my bill is identical to the old system, and if I run a few appliances at night I can save a buck or two each month. Meh.

What’s really freaky is that they have a voluntary program that lets the utility turn your thermostat up remotely during periods of high power demand (heat waves). I’m not looking forward to the day this becomes mandatory, and the government sets my thermostat for me.


RE: You're Too Dumb
By mmntech on 5/13/2009 9:46:56 AM , Rating: 2
The rates have been slowly creeping up though. The off-peak hours are a little unreasonable too plus we had to pay for the new meters ourselves rather than it coming out of our hydro bills. We still pay less than a lot of jurisdictions though (Florida pays 14 cents/kWh apparently). It hasn't really effected me since I really don't use a lot of electricity, even in the summer. I keep the AC at 78 and I grill a lot outside. However, wait until Canada day next year when McGuinty hikes your bill by 8% thanks to his stupid harmonized sales tax.

The real reason for installing these things is because Ontario has an electricity shortage due to lack of generating capacity. I can't help but wonder how much money the government spent on the smart meters when they could have spent the money to convert Nantikoke and Lakeview to clean coal, rather than closing the latter down.


RE: You're Too Dumb
By Alexstarfire on 5/13/2009 9:51:30 AM , Rating: 2
Yea, but in Florida they basically use the AC 24/7/365.


RE: You're Too Dumb
By FITCamaro on 5/13/2009 10:20:39 AM , Rating: 2
Heh. Yeah. I remember in college having a $250 power bill for our 3 bedroom apartment. Granted the AC unit sucked and the insulation wasn't the best. A well built home does better.


Old news?
By iFX on 5/13/09, Rating: 0
RE: Old news?
By TSS on 5/13/2009 9:35:06 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
"The meters most of us have in our homes were designed for a different age, before climate change," according to Ed Miliband, British Energy Secretary.


hmmm... so if i'm to understand this energy secretary, climate change started AFTER these meters where installed. it's a good thing it never changed before that.

remember this is the same goverment who's plastered the streets of london with camera's.

this has BS written all over it. that's why it's news. it's always news when a goverment further restricts personal liberties.


RE: Old news?
By iFX on 5/13/2009 9:56:58 AM , Rating: 1
How exactly are digital electricity meters a restriction of personal liberties?

I see this more as a way for the electric company to offer more precise billing. I'm not sure how it's done in the UK but in many parts of the US your analog meter was only checked say once a quarter and you paid an "estimated" usage bill for the two months it wasn't checked based on your average usage for the last twelve months. With digital meters that are able to "phone home" I get a correct, actual usage bill every month - I can even go online and see my monthly usage, peak usage, etc, etc.

We've had these digital meters forever in the States.


RE: Old news?
By Spuke on 5/13/2009 4:04:42 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
We've had these digital meters forever in the States.
Not where I live. I've had three brand new homes in the last 10 years and none of them had digital meters. Hell, I don't know anyone with a digital meter.


RE: Old news?
By foolsgambit11 on 5/13/2009 3:21:56 PM , Rating: 2
It's not a restriction of personal liberty. It's the terms of use for an optional service. In other words, you opt into the bargain. You don't need to have a power provider, ergo you don't need a smart monitor.

You don't consider it a restriction of personal liberty that the phone company keeps a list of calls you made to bill you for your usage, do you? Would you prefer they billed you a flat rate no matter who you called, be it next door or Dakar, Senegal? A system like that would result in a lot more people calling internationally, since there's no penalty for doing it. And additional volume overseas would necessitate greater overseas capacity, and a higher average cost for all calls, making everybody's cost per minute higher.


RE: Old news?
By captainpierce on 5/13/2009 4:04:10 PM , Rating: 2
Using a private business like the phone company is a poor analogy. This is an initiative being pushed by the government. The phone company is providing a service to customers and it has no power to restrict anyone's personal liberty. If you really believed the phone company was doing such a thing, you could cancel your phone service and they could nothing about it. They can't send people into your home and compel you to have a phone. When the government uses its coercive powers to force people to change their behavior it's a totally different matter. As previous posters have pointed out, this is a gradual push by politicians to force the public to behave in a way that they deem more beneficial for everyone.


RE: Old news?
By dug777 on 5/13/2009 9:38:40 AM , Rating: 2
You are correct, digital meters are nothing new.

Older ones are usually just a digital equivalent of the old disc-type ones, although I understand it's now cheaper to get an interval capable meter than not these days.

The concept of a 'smart meter' goes quite a bit beyond that however.

It's usually used to describe a meter that is interval capable, can provide information such as real time usage/historical usage/current electricity costs, provides remote access to the utility (for meter reads/remote disconnection/reconnection), may have the capability for direct load control for specific devices in your home, and may even allow for bi-direction metering (to allow metering for a self-generation source, such as PV or wind).


RE: Old news?
By Alexstarfire on 5/13/2009 9:53:14 AM , Rating: 2
Perhaps because this article is talking about the UK and not the US.

Way to show off your public education.


RE: Old news?
By iFX on 5/13/09, Rating: 0
RE: Old news?
By tmouse on 5/13/2009 1:31:17 PM , Rating: 2
Its not old technology, while all smart meters are digital; not all digital meters are smart.


RE: Old news?
By FITCamaro on 5/13/2009 1:35:58 PM , Rating: 3
Because its not just a regular old meter with a digital display dumbass. Which is all you have in the states. I believe very few select areas in the states have played with smart meters, but overall, the entire US doesn't have them.

Way to read. As he said, like a typical public school C student, you just looked at the tiny picture and assumed you knew what the hell you were talking about.


RE: Old news?
By iFX on 5/14/2009 8:10:10 AM , Rating: 2
I'm the one who can't read? We already have phone home digital meters in the States - I have one at my house right now. Of course, I already talked about this but you missed it because you're a blithering idiot.


RE: Old news?
By Alexstarfire on 5/13/2009 7:43:59 PM , Rating: 2
IDK, maybe the UK is older and has older houses with old equipment in them.


The cynical UK person that I am...
By jabber on 5/13/2009 8:33:54 AM , Rating: 2
....makes me think this is another form of monitoring and taxation on the way.

The Govt can set limits for energy usage and then charge a carbon tax on these limits. Thats a given.

Plus it could be used as a way of limiting energy usage in the future if rationing is required because we didnt get the new nuclear power stations on line in time.

I guess we'll see but as thus current govt is squirming in a death roll it may never happen.




RE: The cynical UK person that I am...
By FITCamaro on 5/13/2009 8:36:24 AM , Rating: 3
That's exactly what it is.

I don't mind knowing the current cost of energy at a given time. But the government has no place being involved in how much energy you use. That's between you and the power company.


By captainpierce on 5/13/2009 8:38:45 AM , Rating: 2
That was my issue as well. The government trying to stick its nose in where it doesn't belong. It's none of their business.


By MrPeabody on 5/13/2009 9:49:48 AM , Rating: 2
I agree. The meters themselves look like a nifty-enough bit of kit. However . . .

quote:
"The meters most of us have in our homes were designed for a different age, before climate change," according to Ed Miliband, British Energy Secretary.

. . . statements like these, from people like this, are not encouraging.


Freedom is no longer cool
By Steve73 on 5/13/2009 10:03:17 PM , Rating: 2
I'm glad smart people are making choices for the plebes in Britain. You cant expect people to make the right decisions for themselves. Got to save the planet from the evil masses.




RE: Freedom is no longer cool
By mindless1 on 5/14/2009 12:26:59 AM , Rating: 2
First you invite people to opt-in, then you invite them a little more firmly, then you require it, then you send out the Energy Police squad to teach them to obey. It's all about the rate at which the meters can be manufactured, might as well make people think they have a choice till the quota is filled.


So for power providors?
By foolsgambit11 on 5/13/2009 3:28:03 PM , Rating: 2
So let's say you're a small power producer. You've fit out your house with solar or wind generators. Would the meters also adjust your credits based on the instantaneous value of the power? If so, then it would be possible to zero out your power bill, even when you don't produce as much as you use, as long as you are feeding power in during peak hours and taking it out during off-peak hours.




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