Print 56 comment(s) - last by trisct.. on Dec 8 at 10:27 AM

Twitter's (supposedly) last black manager unloads accusations against his former employer; numbers seem to corroborate his account

Leslie Miley has quit microblogging and social media powerhouse Twitter, Inc. (TWTR).  Well, "quit" might be a bit of an understatement.  Let's just say Miley went out with a bang.

On a guest blog post, published by the rabble-rousing social media news site Medium, he makes an incendiary claim that he was "the only African-American in [engineering] leadership".  He writes:

Twitter no longer has any managers, directors, or VP’s of color in engineering or product management.

It's a criticism that draws headlines (see: Gawker) in part because its a familiar claim.

Most sources probably won't bother to dig much deeper.  But as someone with a background in data science, I feel the need to contextualize.  After all, without the facts we're left with pure emotion -- hard feelings between an employee and his employer.

Leslie Miley
Leslie Miley was Twitter's only black engineering manager, by his own accounting.  He quit over the company's supposed intolerance. [Image Source: Leslie Miley via Gawker]

So what are the facts?

First let's examine Twitter's employee demographics from publicly available data:

  • Overview:
    • 35+ offices [source]
    • 50% of Twitter employees are engineers [source]
    • Global headcount
      • Feb. 2015: 3,900 employees [source] (cached)
      • Nov. 2015: 4,300 employees [source]
      • ~1 in 10 employees added since Feb. 2015!
  • Headcounts by Job Title [Glassdoor; public visible]
    • ~435 engineers (entry level categories up to "senior" engineers)
    • ~25 managers ("product manager" or "engineering manager")
      • Estimate: 17-18 employees per product/engineering manager
  • Napkin math on # of Engineering/Product Managers:
    • Engineers: ~2,150
    • Product or Engineering Managers: ~120
  • Black engineers at Twitter
    • On management team 0 out of 10
      • Side note: the only minority is Twitter's general counsel, Vijaya Gadde, who is of Indian descent.
      • Side note pt. II: There's also just two women on the team of ten, including the general counsel.
    • Are there really no black engineering or product managers at Twitter?
      • It's not clear.  Cavel Khan (@cavel/LinkedIn), though, is a black New York area marketing manager at Twitter.
    • What about the BlackBirds (@Blackbirds)?  How many black engineers and product folks are there?
      • It appears like Twitter employs a couple dozen black engineers, although its unclear if any are in management roles.
Now let's look at the demographics of black engineers, both in Silicon Valley management and at large:
  • Engineers w/ a bachelor's [source: 2011, ASEE (PDF)]
    • Nearly 75k graduates per year
    • More than 4-to-1 male
    • People reporting "white" as their ethnicity made up roughly...
      • 1 in every 2 female engineers
      • 2 out of every 3 males
  • Black engineers
    • ~3,200 bachelor's grads
    • Less that 1 in 20 engineering bachelor's grads is black
    • Similarly according to 1993 numbers (granted, somewhat old data) numbers from the National Science Foundation (NSF), blacks represented...
    • 2 percent of doctoral engineers and scientists, or roughly 1 in 50
    • "roughly" 3 percent of the total engineering and science workforce, or roughly 1 in 30
  • Outlook
    • Black engineers are graduating at ~50% higher rates than two decades ago
    • There is still a BIG gap in the number of black engineering graduates (the same could be said for women and most other minority grads, for that matter).
Black engineers

So at Twitter it appears that black engineers may make up as few as 1 in 100 engineers.  While the percentage of black engineers is slow, there is some truth in what Miley is saying (it appears).  If the numbers above hold up, Twitter may employ roughly 50 percent less blacks than the average engineering business.

That makes what Miley writes somewhat more damning.  He recalls:

Personally, a particularly low moment was having my question about what specific steps Twitter engineering was taking to increase diversity answered by the Sr. VP of Eng at the quarterly Engineering Leadership meeting. When he responded with "diversity is important, but we can’t lower the bar." I then realized I was the only African-American in Eng leadership.


That certainly sounds bad.

Also Twitter's hiring process sounds pretty suspect, in terms of diversity:

There were also the Hiring Committee meetings that became contentious when I advocated for diverse candidates. Candidates who were dinged for not being fast enough to solve problems, not having internships at ‘strong’ companies and who took too long to finish their degree. Only after hours of lobbying would they be hired. Needless to say, the majority of them performed well.
As we continued the discussion, he suggested I create a tool to analyze candidates last names to classify their ethnicity. His rationale was to track candidates thru the pipeline to understand where they were falling out. He made the argument that the last name Nguyen, for example, has an extremely high likelihood of being Vietnamese. As an engineer, I understand this suggestion and why it may seem logical. However, classifying ethnicity’s by name is problematic as evidenced by my name (Leslie Miley) What I also found disconcerting is this otherwise highly sophisticated thinker could posit that an issue this complex could be addressed by name analysis.

To play devil's advocate (not to suggest Twitter is the devil... but well, ya know), the tweeps aren't alone in their diversity dilemma.  Across Silicon Valley and across the entire West Coast engineering circuit, African American engineers are poorly represented.  Top tech firms like Apple, Inc. (AAPL) [source], Facebook, Inc. (FB) [source], and Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) [source] all have nary an African American face on their leadership teams (Microsoft does have a black chairman of its board, read on for more on that).

Granted, some of Miley's complaints sound a bit reaching, e.g.:

Twitter sponsored an event celebrating the work of Freada Kapor Klein and the Level Playing Field Institute. The former Head of the NAACP, Ben Jealous was a featured speaker. This event was attended by many a variety of leaders in tech representing a broad cross section of races, genders, and backgrounds. However, the employee resource group representing Twitter’s black employees (@blackbirds) did not receive an invitation.

And in June of 2015, Jesse Jackson was allowed to present at the Twitter shareholder meeting. Again, there was no communication to Twitter’s black employee resource group. In comparison, when Hillary Clinton and Mellody Hobson visited, the Twitter Women Engineering resource group was notified and given an opportunity to meet privately.

And then there's the obvious irony of Twitter's self-proclaimed only black manager quitting over lack of diversity.  Obviously, to some extent Miley is self-fulfilling his own accusation as his departure makes for an even less diverse Twitter.

Then again, for every weaker argument in his post there's plenty of red meat.  And it's not hard to see where Twitter's sunshine and rainbows could come off as a bit glib amidst the frustrations Miley encountered.  Twitter is fond of spewing slogans like "hashtag (#) TellYourStoriesHere" and "#LoveWhereYouWork".  

Twitter love where you work

For some African American employees the slogans hold true.  But clearly experiences like Miley's will make Twitter a lot harder workplace to love.

Twitter tell your stories here

When it comes down it, the statistics are the most damning part here.  Twitter says it's trying not to lower the bar.  But that comes off as a weak justification for what appears to be a deliberate effort not hire black employees.

And what makes that more glaring is the fact that black engineers aren't as scarce as they were two decades ago.  Graduation rates have risen.  And even in Silicon Valley, the presence of minority engineers and lawyers is being felt.  Google Inc. (GOOG) has a black general counsel, David Drummond.  So too does Symantec Corp. (SYMC) (Scott Taylor).

In fact, Symantec's former CEO John Wendell Thompson is an African American.  Now he's CEO of another firm -- Virtual Instruments (privately held).  And he is also the Chairman of Microsoft's board.  Streaming site's -- a precursor to the Google-acquired Twitch -- was cofound by Michael Seibel, a prominent black silicon valley venture capitalist.  Dropbox's first employee, Aston Motes, was black.  The list goes on and on.

Thus while in the past Twitter's demographics might have looked par for the course in Silicon Valley, today they do stand out a bit more.  While Twitter's Blackbirds have tried to put an optimistic spin on the growing diversity gap at Twitter versus its peers, seeing one of its leaders depart in such bitter fashion is a sad and disappoint note -- one that reflects negatively on Twitter in general.

Sources: Medium [guest column], Gawker

Comments     Threshold

This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled

the numbers
By Argon18 on 11/9/2015 10:33:42 AM , Rating: 5
Black Americans are performing far, far below blacks of other nationalities in the global workforce. Today in America, 50% of blacks drop out of high school. With such an abysmal high school graduation rate, it doesn't take a statistician to see that disproportionately fewer blacks go on to college, much less an MBA and upper management. It's a tragedy that so many young black Americans make poor life choices, but the one thing this is not - is racism.

RE: the numbers
By Apone on 11/9/2015 11:24:40 AM , Rating: 5
@ Argon18

Agreed. As an Asian American, my people didn’t pitch the “racism” and “injustice” card; we fought the system, shattered preconceived notions, and made it to the top by pushing ourselves academically and professionally. And from an HR perspective, I would want the most qualified person for the job(s) so if that person (or persons) happens to be black, white, Asian, Mexican, Eastern European, etc. then that’s who I want to bring value back to my organization.

RE: the numbers
By dsx724 on 11/9/15, Rating: 0
RE: the numbers
By chripuck on 11/9/2015 12:28:10 PM , Rating: 4
So you have a problem with the Blackbirds portion in the above article right? Because they sure are acting like a group of "my people" rather than part of the collective whole.

RE: the numbers
By dsx724 on 11/9/2015 2:36:38 PM , Rating: 2
I think Leslie Miley is entitled and thinks too highly of himself and lumps people in a group that don't want to be associated with him. Just like I don't want to be associated with Argon18 because of my race.

RE: the numbers
By phxfreddy on 11/11/2015 7:19:03 PM , Rating: 1
You are all skirting around the reality we all know from IQ tests.

To Wit: Blacks as a group score 1 standard deviation below average. There is a reason there were very few blacks in your engineering classes. Most of them do not have the mental running gear required.

They'll have to wait for brain augmentation. You'll see the numbers rise after that. Either that or interbreed more with whites and asians.

I know you'll all have a cow. But sometimes we have to accept facts.

RE: the numbers
By chripuck on 11/12/2015 12:29:47 PM , Rating: 2
That's idiotic. If you've ever taken an IQ test you'd realize that so much of it requires actual knowledge and doesn't, in fact, measure raw intellectual potential. There's a reason why most 6 year old children don't score as well as most 16 year old children. You wouldn't see this disparity if it truly measured intellectual potential and not acquired knowledge.

And I've routinely scored in the high 130's, low 140's on every test I've taken.

RE: the numbers
By phxfreddy on 11/12/2015 1:40:23 PM , Rating: 3
Clearly I have taken and IQ test and you have not Chip-punk. IQ tests use logic puzzles, spacial relations and word puzzles to test intelligence.

Your entire view of IQ tests is off. I=intelligence, Q=Quotient. You have completely missed the ball here. You mention 6 year old kids versus 16 year old kids measuring differently....:DUH!

....that's why they call it IQ. You put measured intelligence as the nominator and age in some form as the denominator to normalize out the effects of age.

After your little made book report about IQ which you appear to have completely fabricated I have to question your intelligence. Just by the neuro-linguistics of your throw up I would have to estimate you at about IQ=110. A little above average but not much.

RE: the numbers
By chripuck on 11/17/2015 11:03:36 AM , Rating: 1
So you assert that you could take an IQ test from today, travel back in time 500 years and the mean distribution of white people of European descent would be the same? Are you really that stupid?

The best part in all of this is your blatant spelling and grammatical errors. If you were really as intelligent as you claim, you'd have picked up on them fairly quickly.

You can bury your head in the sand as much as you want, but there are plenty of valid sources indicating the issues with IQ tests, especially amongst culturally different minorities.

RE: the numbers
By phxfreddy on 11/17/2015 3:34:04 PM , Rating: 2
You are the one burying his head in the sand.

Compare apples with apples. When blacks take IQ tests they score 1 standard deviation less than Chinese, Europeans etc etc etc.

Get a clue. The numbers are leaping off the page at you. The only other impaired racial group is Mexicans of indigenous descent. Tough luck it's reality and it is reflected in the professions.

Now as for you Chipuck.....I'll take fries with that.

RE: the numbers
By phxfreddy on 11/17/2015 3:36:30 PM , Rating: 2
oh and let me guess since you included a link to "Scientific American" you believe in "Glo-Bull warming" too.

You better stick with your job at McDonald's'll never make it in science or engineering.

RE: the numbers
By phxfreddy on 11/18/2015 4:14:26 PM , Rating: 2
RE: the numbers
By phxfreddy on 11/18/2015 7:33:34 AM , Rating: 2
I'm not even sure why I'm talking to someone very transparently lied about taking an IQ test anyway.........

RE: the numbers
By sorry dog on 11/16/2015 6:41:54 PM , Rating: 2
Most of them do not have the mental running gear required.They'll have to wait for brain augmentation. You'll see the numbers rise after that. Either that or interbreed more with whites and asians.

That the stupidest thing I have read in a while... or you are deliberately trolling...

There is no credible scientific study that says that people of dark skin color have lower mental capacity.

If am wrong please post anything credible that supports that claim. I am sure there are plenty of studies that show that children from lower socio-economic classes do not score as well on tests of all kinds. But if you are based your rationale that more of those children are black versus white then you have got your cause and effect all mixed up. Correlation does not equal causation.

RE: the numbers
By phxfreddy on 11/17/2015 3:46:02 PM , Rating: 1
It's not my responsibility to educate you Mr Sorry Dog. There is a very well researched book titled "The Bell Curve" which lays out in gruesome detail the differences in between Africans and the other races of the world.

That's not trolling. That's just the facts of the matter. You don't want to hear it or you would already know this. It's not like they are keeping this a secret.

Actually what you said is stupid. Simply because you're in such denial about the obvious. You must base much of your self worth on your self rated IQ. Again as I said with Chris're not the sharpest tool. You should try to keep that job at McDonald's because you'll never make it in STEM.

And as for correllation this is not about rich or poor. Poor whites have done very well in previous generations as a group. Not so with those of predominantly African ancestry.

You liberals claim to believe in evolution but then when a logical result of races differing in various manners arises you act like creationists.

Simply put when humans left Africa they interbred with Neanderthals. That gave them the added advantage of an entirely parallel line of cerebral genetics to augment their brain function. That's evolution.

So tell you believe in evolution or not?

RE: the numbers
By mrwassman on 11/30/2015 1:48:51 AM , Rating: 1
I understand some of the data is real but I also know that researchers get completely fucked up data published. I went to school with some of these lazy bastards and I would only hire 10% of my graduating class. That being said, I've run into so many ignorant/stupid people of all colors that I don't know how anyone can feel superior.

For fucks sake, do you think your McDonald's jokes are hilarious? They're fucking stupid man. Someone who doesn't agree with you works at McDonald's? You sound like an asshole man. The others are right, your grammar is not doing you any favors (kind of looks like auto correct errors though) and your general opinion leads me to believe you are a supremacist of some sort. I'm not saying you are, it just reads that way.

Back when there was a "genius" IQ, my dad scored into this level. The only thing I can possibly take away from this is that IQ tests are shit; if there is some chance he has an above-normal IQ, well... the guy thinks I'm a genius and I'm here arguing on the internet. I've never taken an IQ test and I don't plan on taking one either; the number is a distraction and, in the grand scheme, doesn't mean a fucking thing.

Don't believe everything that you read when it comes from the field of Psychology; it has the highest rate of change when it comes to accepted standard practices and known good information. Psychology is not PHYSICS you idiot. Are you a Psychologist or something?

In case you were wondering, I got me ME degree from UCSB. So you can take your McDonald's theory and shove it. My half-white, half-Asian dad worked their when he was younger. I barely graduated high school and didn't plan on going to college, but someone GUIDED me in the right direction. They didn't ASSUME like you do. We don't need to give up on people because it's easier. Opinions like yours only hold us back. Your solution? What... keep them in the Ghetto?

RE: the numbers
By Argon18 on 11/9/2015 12:49:20 PM , Rating: 5
You're missing the point. It's more than that. "My people" is not racist, it's a reference to the cultural differences between asian Americans and black Americans.

In asian (and asian American) culture, there is a high value placed on educational achievement. Likewise, there is a strong push to study hard, do your homework, and generally perform highly in school. This has nothing to do with having asian DNA - but it has everything to do with asian culture. It's a cultural thing.

In black American culture, we see the exact opposite behavior. black American students who spend a lot of time studying and working hard in school are ridiculed and ostracized by their peers. There is a perception amongst many young black Americans that working hard in school is a "white people" thing, and if you're black and you do this, you're a "traitor". Hip hop culture and "thug life" culture are widely embarced and rewarded by their peers. This has nothing to do with having African DNS - but it has everything to do with black American culture.

In short, there is no such thing as a superior DNA or race or ethnicity. But the cultural values of one racial group can (and are) clearly delivering better outcomes then those of another racial group. This is not racism, it's culture.

RE: the numbers
By dsx724 on 11/9/15, Rating: -1
RE: the numbers
By FITCamaro on 11/9/2015 5:23:46 PM , Rating: 4
If you're attempting to deny the propensity of blacks to ridicule other blacks who actually strive to be successful, then you're just kidding yourself. Yes there are those who ridicule achievement in all ethnicities. Typically they're jocks or bullies of all skin colors.

But blacks in particular are known for this kind of behavior in America. You have to be ignorant to ignore it.

RE: the numbers
By Apone on 11/9/2015 5:30:28 PM , Rating: 2
@ dsx724

I think what Argon18 is saying is that there is a general consensus to the definition of “culture”. Sure I agree that we can’t assume that ALL Asian and Asian American people hold a high educational output and hard work value and yes there are many people of Asian descent who don’t live up to that stereotype. But if you look at this case (and many others where race apparently plays a factor), you’ll see a pattern of it coming back to black Americans.

Show me one (or several) instance(s) where a student or working professional (who isn’t black) made a big national stink (or did something radical) about a social or work “injustice”. Now compare that to the number of instances where the person (or persons) involved were black. About the same? No?

RE: the numbers
By Sazabi19 on 11/10/2015 8:42:28 AM , Rating: 2
I think you're trying just a little too hard to be offended by this. What he is saying it TYPICALLY true of Asians (of certain countries)/Asian Americans (if you're PC). He never said ALL. Just like whites are somewhere in between striving and being lackadaisical pieces of crap, and most blacks doing quite poorly (while some doing very well).

There is a MASSIVE sense of entitlement in the black community in the US where they know they don't have to do well, they can just live off the system. This is what makes most of the other black populations in the rest of the world hate American blacks. I have worked with many non-American blacks and they are absolutely disgusted by most American blacks due to their laziness and sense of entitlement. You wouldn't believe the things they say (and they're black too).

RE: the numbers
By chripuck on 11/12/2015 12:32:22 PM , Rating: 3
The idea that you believe there is a singular American culture instead of disprate groups of various ethnic cultures just shows your own willful ignorance.

Whites, Asians and Indians, as sub-cultures in America, value education more than Blacks and Latinos. This is a fact that NEEDS to change, but enacting regulation and injecting government isn't going to make this change. It's going to require a change of heart and a change at home. How this can be fixed I don't know, but big government is not the answer as it rarely is.

RE: the numbers
By Ktracho on 11/12/2015 2:21:43 PM , Rating: 2
And yet there is a role for government (meaning society in general) because they are a contributing factor for why certain races (black in particular) are underrepresented in jobs requiring high skill levels. I'm not black, but not so long ago, if you wanted to open a liquor store, or a brothel, or a dump site, white folks (i.e., government) would say, not in our neighborhood. But if the owners would then say, well, how about over there in the black neighborhood, government would say, go ahead, knock yourself out. And when a big company would expand, needing to hire many workers, would they be allowed to go to a location accessible to people living in black neighborhoods? No, they'd expand to areas where only white people would find it easy to get to work. You can even look at how blacks were disproportionately affected by the lead in paint and gasoline (which affects IQ, among other things), even though technology was developed over 80 years ago that didn't require lead in gasoline.

I'm not saying that today, lazy people or those who feel entitled need to be excused, but you can't expect people to magically rise up after being oppressed for so many years. It's going to require a lot of changes in many areas of their lives, and behaving differently than how they've watched people around them behave.

I would also say that we need to be careful how we build society today, how level we make the playing field. I can only speak about Silicon Valley, but I think there's a danger that we are making it harder for people who are not already blessed with wealth to succeed, for example by driving them far away from where available work is, and making it much harder for them to get an education. Certainly when I went to college, there weren't nearly as many impediments to getting a degree as there are now.

RE: the numbers
By Sazabi19 on 11/10/2015 8:35:56 AM , Rating: 2
I rarely agree with you Argon18 but bravo on this, couldn't have said it better myself. There are countless youtube videos of black kids striving to lift themselves up (literally sometimes) and the other kids (also literally) beating them down because they are on honor roll or got a good grade. The world is messed up. Now people are getting offended over every little thing and self-entitled pieces of shit are becoming the majority (or at least the loudest voice the ignorant masses follow). Everything people used to strive for people now want for free, there is not sense of accomplishment.

RE: the numbers
By theapparition on 11/9/2015 12:57:54 PM , Rating: 3

Diversity in itself is racism. Outright legal racism. When one talks about "my people", it divides us. We should approach this as one country. We will only come together when we stop the us vs. them mentality.

As a company owner, I will hire only the most qualified for the job. Period. I am an outright fool to pass over a talented individual allowing them to go to a competitor, regardless of color, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

Entitlement must stop. You only deserve as much as you work for. Tracking race should even be illegal. We won't ever come together if we keep track of what groups we are. Me? I'm an American. That's it.

Where is diversity in the players of NFL and NBA? Obviously won't happen. What if a company is 90% of a single "minority". Would there be any push for more diversification?

It's a ridiculous concept that needs to stop.

RE: the numbers
By Apone on 11/9/2015 2:31:47 PM , Rating: 1
@ theapparition

Diversity isn’t racist. This is what defines America. We are a melting pot of cultures, ethnicities, and people of different color. The root of the problem isn’t diversity or racism; the problem is discipline. It doesn’t matter whether you’re Black/White/Asian/Latino, you’re fully capable of becoming successful but it’s not going to happen by whining, complaining, or pulling the race/injustice card and hoping a policy change will get you there.

I’ve never played the race card when I’ve been passed over for a job/promotion or cry foul when I notice a company/organization has predominantly white/black/Asian/Latino personnel.

You’re certainly more than welcome to start a nationwide campaign to convince those who constantly play the race/injustice card (such as ex-Twitter executive Leslie Miley) and let them know it ultimately isn’t about race, but about how you apply yourself.

RE: the numbers
By kamk44 on 11/9/2015 4:12:18 PM , Rating: 2
I think you meant affirmative action and quotas. That is racism. Diversity should be achieved naturally not by lowering the bar. It is in the best interest of a company to hire the best and if some knuckleheads are standing in the way of that because of an applicant's skin color than it needs to be addressed pronto.

RE: the numbers
By Dorkyman on 11/10/2015 7:32:36 PM , Rating: 2
I love NBA basketball, and am furious at the outright discrimination against Caucasians and Hispanics on the pro teams.

I propose that a quota needs to be established. Since people of color represent about 12% of the population, we need to insist that no more than 12% of the rosters be of color.

And, of course, we need to use people to track the playing time. No fair giving people of color an unfair amount of playing time.


RE: the numbers
By Dr of crap on 11/12/2015 10:27:55 AM , Rating: 2

How do you like that?

RE: the numbers
By Dr of crap on 11/9/2015 12:28:40 PM , Rating: 2
I applaud you and your race for NOT playing the race card.
I think its very wrong to put in place that you need X number of this race and X number of exec of that race, ect... YOU hire those that fit what your looking for, not for the color of the skin to fill a quota!
And screw any back lash you might get from others, and DON'T apologize for it either, really hate that too!

RE: the numbers
By phxfreddy on 11/11/2015 7:21:29 PM , Rating: 2
Putting in X units of group Y is nothing more than feng shui'ing the work force. It's what a house decorator would do to make match the rug with the curtains. STUPIDITY.

RE: the numbers
By Sazabi19 on 11/10/2015 8:29:17 AM , Rating: 2
It's wonderful that you want the most qualified person for the job, just as it should be. But for most places we have a quota we have to meet (especially in govt.). We have only a few blacks here for us and 1 in management who is a lazy POS that doesn't do his job but WE CAN'T TOUCH HIM because he is the the only black manager and we have a quota. There have been others in the past that have wanted the position but could not have it even though the performance is so dismal that even most of the other managers admit it, except the highest of management. It's unfortunate that circumstances such as this occur.

The same can be said for some of our police forces around my area. They are so low on their black quota that they will turn down any "non-minority" (white male) applicant for joining the academy and will literally SEND OUT applications to "minorities" to get them to apply and literally give them a job. Talk about reverse discrimination.

RE: the numbers
By Dr of crap on 11/12/2015 10:26:13 AM , Rating: 1
AND all you have posted is wrong.
IF a qualified candidate is found and he is NOT the race you want - TO BAD. Get over it and move on already!!!

RE: the numbers
By Camikazi on 11/13/2015 2:32:47 PM , Rating: 2
That doesn't work when you have a mandated quota that NEEDS to be met. You can't just let it go and walk away when the result could be a giant fine or lawsuits because of it. Quotas are wrong but they are mandated in many places now and loss of jobs will happen if they are not followed.

RE: the numbers
By FITCamaro on 11/9/2015 5:21:20 PM , Rating: 1
I work with a guy who's mom is a counselor at a low income school in rural South Carolina. He told me a story today about how she asked a young black man what his dream was to become. He told her that his mom lives off welfare and doesn't have to work so that is his goal. To not have to work and live off the government. This is the mentality of a lot of blacks. That they do not have to work.

By no means am I saying that is the mentality of all. But for many, this is what the Democrat party pitches to them, encourages, and promises to fight for them to be able to continue to do it.

I have noticed an uptick in the number of black engineers at my workplace being hired in the past year (1 in 2 which the statistics say shouldn't be the case since, as the article notes, there are very few black engineering students). I have a suspicion this is for diversity reasons. And it wouldn't be a problem except for the fact that many appear to have zero initiative and zero desire to actually go out seeking work to do.

To be fair, the blacks aren't the only ones. Nearly all the people right out of school have this problem. They want to just sit on their phones all day. But I still see a difference between the black engineers and the engineers of other ethnicities (not races because there is only one human race).

In summary, this guy is likely whining about nothing. He seems to expect that blacks be hired for the sake of hiring black people. As Twitter says, diversity is nice, but saying you should sacrifice ability for diversity is absolutely stupid. Not that I expect the government to ever acknowledge this.

RE: the numbers
By Sazabi19 on 11/10/2015 8:54:33 AM , Rating: 2
Acknowledge? The govt. PERPETUATES this! We have quotas we have to meet. Have another white male that is clearly the front-runner with a double masters? He would be great... but we need another diversity hire so he's out. We have to have contracts with minority owned businesses and they know that, so guess what? We get charged easily 1.5 times what the value of something is. We could get it at 1/2 that cost if we were able to search for deals, but we can't because a certain % of our procurement HAS to come from them.

Same thing for firing a minority. I've seen this and had my X (who is a minority and works for HR) tell me this as well. I could be fired for just about any reason and all they have to do is say the word. But you can tell when a minority is being fired because there is documentation on it. They have to back it up and cover their asses and PROVE it, while anyone else could be let go for nonperformance.

RE: the numbers
By inperfectdarkness on 11/16/2015 1:27:39 PM , Rating: 2
It (at least partially) stems from Affirmative Action. At the time (Think circa 1954 & Brown v. Board of Education), there was a need for a program like AA, and while not ideal, was the best solution that could be found at that time.

Fast forward 50+ years, and AA is now a crutch for enabling lackluster performance to get ahead in the world. When you have a literal army of upper-class blacks who argue--in unison--that AA needs to die off...well that should tell you something.

As a underscore of this point, I'll refer you to the current presidential administration. Regardless of your review on its collective performance (which I will not debate here), the inescapable and irrevocable truth of the matter is that the president was elected in large part due to people who believed that he would enact a welfare state which would allow them to never pay taxes or have to work again. There are countless clips online of individuals who wanted "Some 'o dat Obama money"; and voted accordingly. This is not indicative of all black Americans, but it does represent a large subset/subculture within this population.

Succinctly, the USA has diverged so far from being the meritocracy that has made itself great--that we may never fully recover. And this is evident everywhere from the public sector to many private sectors as well.

RE: the numbers
By inperfectdarkness on 11/16/2015 1:16:13 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed. Additionally, one must factor in the ever-lower standards of higher-education institutions in the USA. If the bar for graduating was identical to the bar for employment in the private/public sector--this would be a non-issue. However, since educational standards are considerably lower--employers seek to find applicants who have demonstrated performance/experience above/beyond that. Needless to say, this requires an applicant to show drive/ambition beyond that which would grant a college degree.

While I won't directly fingerpoint to work-ethic among any one particular sub-group of Americans, I will say that this work-ethic among some types of immigrant populations is markedly higher (Eg. Indian/Asian). To wit, I would expect more % of those latter two ethnicities employed in the tech sector than I would of other minorities.

#Blackbirds is offensive to me
By GotThumbs on 11/9/2015 1:53:11 PM , Rating: 3
Do you think #Whitebirds would be accepted? If not, than there is no way Blackbirds should be.

RE: #Blackbirds is offensive to me
By Sazabi19 on 11/10/2015 8:58:12 AM , Rating: 3
Of course it's not, because it's not racist, it's just being proud to be black. Being proud to be white and displaying it though is overtly racist because we oppress. Did you know that Asians were locked in internment camps in the US during WWII? I don't hear about that every other week on the news or see groups of Asian descendants claiming they want free things because of it. I wonder if there's a message there...

RE: #Blackbirds is offensive to me
By phxfreddy on 11/11/2015 7:26:09 PM , Rating: 2
Spoken like a true social justice warrior.

You will from here forth be disregarded as intellectually disingenuous

RE: #Blackbirds is offensive to me
By Camikazi on 11/13/2015 2:26:36 PM , Rating: 2
I am positive the comment went right over your head, read it again slowly and look for the real message they are trying to get across.

RE: #Blackbirds is offensive to me
By phxfreddy on 11/14/2015 8:31:56 PM , Rating: 2
Not over...just through. I read so many SJW stuff I'm on a hair trigger lately with the insanity that has come to pass.

RE: #Blackbirds is offensive to me
By Camikazi on 11/18/2015 2:43:29 PM , Rating: 2
OIC, I have not gotten there yet so I try and find underlying messages but I can understand how that could happen.

By inperfectdarkness on 11/16/2015 1:30:54 PM , Rating: 2
Sarcasm FTW. :)

As an add-on, I'm probably going to be labeled racist for drawing a comparison between Blacks who still insist on reparations/handouts for slavery--and Grecians who insist on even more reparations for German WWII atrocities.

By puter_geek_00 on 11/11/2015 2:44:33 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly what I was thinking. If I went to my CEO and asked to make a group called #Whitebirds, I'm pretty sure that would avalanche down to my hispanic HR director and I wouldn't have a job.

By Dr of crap on 11/12/2015 10:32:52 AM , Rating: 2
Freaking lighten up Francis! You do know how to laugh and have fun right?

Seems like no one knows that prior to this PC crap - jokes where very much to pick on others. Yep we pick on someone to make a joke - the horror!

By coburn_c on 11/11/2015 1:47:16 AM , Rating: 2
First of all.. paying for an MBA should be a sign of ignorance not intelligence...

Requiring one a sure sign or elitism.

That said of all the blacks I know less than ten percent qualify for trust of my car keys, let alone my corporate leadership...

By Apone on 11/11/2015 10:53:56 AM , Rating: 2
So you're saying that advancing your education to further your career is a sign of ignorance?

By phxfreddy on 11/11/2015 7:23:54 PM , Rating: 2
"education" in a vacuum means nothing. It should only partaken in for very good material reasons. Otherwise it is a waste of time and certainly of money.

Oh, It's ONLY black "diversity" that matters
By GotThumbs on 11/9/2015 1:58:50 PM , Rating: 1
"When he responded with "diversity is important, but we can’t lower the bar." I then realized I was the only African-American in Eng leadership."

It's NOT diverstiy he wants, it's just blacks that he wants. It's interesting that the #blackbirds are not an inclusive group. Just based on the name of the "club" you know it's intended for blacks only.

I find his position lacks credibly in the end. If we are to be a society that does not see race or gender, then we need to stop people from labeling themselves in that way.

RE: Oh, It's ONLY black "diversity" that matters
By GotThumbs on 11/9/2015 2:06:54 PM , Rating: 2
Bottom line, tech companies are all fishing from the same pond. Of course they want qualified black engineers.....simple to avoid some PR story like this. The REAL problem is not enough fish in that specific pond.

Rather than whine about the lack of black engineers, how about going out and educating/mentoring current college students and help recruit the best of the best. Race is a zero factor in one's ability to do a job, but this guy doesn't care about that.

He should start his own company and then hire who he wants, based on their skill-set of course.

By superflex on 11/10/2015 4:19:25 PM , Rating: 2
He's just jumping on the Mizzou houligan bandwagon demanding some action for conceived injustice.

He need to head back over to his safe space so he doesn't hear all the criticism for his lack of critical thinking.

keep in mind
By GotThumbs on 11/9/2015 1:51:19 PM , Rating: 2
That the More than one race also includes Blacks.

Rather than focus on race, how about simply working with others. Race should NOT be a reason for a promotion or demotion.

Sooooo tired of AA requesting data in a way that supports their desired message.

I've seen it first hand, so I know what I'm talking about.

Promotion based on race is the WRONG thing to do. Promotion based on performance should always trump gender, race or even sexual preference. All three have zero to do with ablity IMO.

Ben Carson is a famous surgeon because of his proven ability, not his race or gender.

So, where are the facts?
By ET on 11/10/2015 5:06:53 AM , Rating: 2
But as someone with a background in data science, I feel the need to contextualize.

You say that, then go on to post something that looks as far from serious analysis as one can get.

You start with "35+ offices", completely ignore the fact that most of these are not in the US (which shows how truly diverse, not US "diverse", Twitter is) and then continue the "analysis" for what is a purely US problem, using US statistics. Without knowing the percentage of US employees (and I assume most growth this year was outside the US), the "analysis" is worthless.

Diversity isn't divine
By trisct on 12/8/2015 10:27:21 AM , Rating: 2
People talk about diversity like its some kind of sacred quality and has to be pursued. It certainly helps to have a lot of different creative viewpoints in general, but if your focus is only on engineering credentials then maybe its just not relevant. Diversity has become another buzzword component of political correctness, and doesn't always deserve the attention it gets.

We still should be suspicious of companies whose demographics are blatantly skewed, but diversity is no holy grail.

"Nowadays you can buy a CPU cheaper than the CPU fan." -- Unnamed AMD executive

Copyright 2016 DailyTech LLC. - RSS Feed | Advertise | About Us | Ethics | FAQ | Terms, Conditions & Privacy Information | Kristopher Kubicki