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Internet Turkey Bans YouTube, Again
Chris Peredun - January 21, 2008 2:52 PM
Print E-mail del.icio.us 53 comment(s) - last by wordsworm.. on Jan 24 at 11:11 PM
Deja vu all over again

In what is becoming a bit of a recurring event, YouTube has once again found itself banned from Turkey for having clips available that insult the first president and founding father Mustafa Kemal Ataturk.

After a ban in March of 2007, Turkish citizens were once again free to peruse YouTube's collection of poorly-rendered karaoke footage and clips of bodily harm. A court ruling in September threatened to re-enact the ban, but it was never enforced -- and the most recent ruling passed on January 17th resulted in the current blockade.

"Insulting Turkishness" is a criminal act in Turkey, and even being able to view the objectionable video was deemed enough to warrant a ban on the entire site. The supposed clip in question compares Ataturk with a monkey, and attempting to browse to the YouTube homepage from anywhere within Turkey results in an error stating "Access to this web site has been suspended in accordance with decision no: 2008/55 of T.R. Ankara 12th Criminal Court of Peace."

At least 65 people -- including many journalists and writers -- have been charged with "insulting Turkishness" since the introduction of the law in June of 2005. The law calls for a sentence of between six months and three years in prison for "anyone who openly denigrates the government, judicial institutions or military or police structures" -- or even mentioning past transgressions of the nation, such as the Armenian massacres or Kurdish questioning.

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And this is why they'll never get in the EU
By Muirgheasa on 1/21/2008 4:18:40 PM , Rating: 4
Perhaps we should never say never, but this kind of oppression of freedoms will never cut it with the EU (Turkey has an open application to join the EU). That and all the other unfair imprisonment, oppression of women etc.




RE: And this is why they'll never get in the EU
By BZDTemp on 1/21/08, Rating: -1
By NullSubroutine on 1/21/2008 5:52:39 PM , Rating: 2
Either you dont have to be in Europe to be in the EU or I didnt realize the US was in Europe. If it is the latter, man my grade school teachers really screwed with my head.


By Spuke on 1/21/2008 7:11:24 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
With that reasoning the US would not be allowed into the EU either :-)

1. LOL!!
2. The US is not part of the EU.


RE: And this is why they'll never get in the EU
By winterspan on 1/22/2008 10:35:50 PM , Rating: 2
I love how this guy's quote gets downrated and placed in red from some idiot that is behaving in the same way Turkey is.
Everything he mentioned is FACT. the United States would absolutely NOT be let in to the EU if we happened to be on the continent.
Because of neo-conservatism, fear-mongering, and cowardly, apathetic, and ignorant republican "Middle America", It's become a very sad time in the history of our great country.
If only the "patriots" had more historical perspective and constitutional awareness, would the chest beating stop and only then could this country start to heal itself....


By B3an on 1/23/2008 3:36:18 AM , Rating: 2
You are indeed a rare breed. An american who isn't down rating anything remotely bad said about his country (no matter how true it is) and mouthing off about how great his country (apparently) is.

It's all true, and your post has already been down rated too, and probably this one will be. If the vast majority of americans dont wake up like yourself your country will not improve.


By sh3rules on 1/22/2008 9:31:54 AM , Rating: 2
I agree, Turkey will never be in the EU, especially if the matter is left in the hands of European voters. Turks are in disagreement with current European standards (women’s rights, freedom of speech, etc.) and as long as they remain in their Muslim mentality they’ll never make it in the EU.


Banned from Turkey
By BladeVenom on 1/21/2008 3:15:48 PM , Rating: 5
What a bunch of tards.

Now this site will be banned in Turkey.




By KristopherKubicki (blog) on 1/21/2008 5:36:26 PM , Rating: 4
Proudly :)


What is free speech?
By RogueLegend on 1/21/2008 5:38:24 PM , Rating: 2
While I don't agree with the type of punishment for what is labelled a "crime" in Turkey, you have to wonder at what point is this justified?

In the US, we seem to debate regularly about flag burning and whether or not being against a war your country is fighting also means being a traitor, or even a terrorist. While criticism is one thing, how many Americans would equate George Washington with a monkey; how many would find that funny, and is that an appropriate form of satire and an appropriate use of free speech?

Blocking you tube and imposing those kinds of punishments definitely don't fit the "crime" of critiquing the government, and they do nothing to change the fact that some idiot made a bad joke about a monkey and the founder of their country.

Point being, I think someone should institute universal laws of reasonableness. The only problem is who do you trust with that?




RE: What is free speech?
By theapparition on 1/21/2008 11:35:04 PM , Rating: 4
Funny you should mention George Washington. I believe one of the core examples used by the Supreme Court on the rule of Satire was an very unflattering cartoon of the father of our country, which was contemporary at the time.

Once the government starts banning protests it doesn't like, where does it end?


No surprise really...
By Das Capitolin on 1/21/2008 3:20:17 PM , Rating: 4
This doesn't come as a surprise, since they still charge anyone who mentions their genocide of Amenians with a crime.




Banning Pages
By DBZLuisD on 1/21/2008 3:19:38 PM , Rating: 2
If they ban youtube because some users upload that kind of content then they could ban ALL search engines because you could find pages that "insult Turkishness".
Then why they just don't allow Internet access like in Cuba, or only to a few nationalist and goverment pages (like in Cuba).
I know that's repression and all of that, but common, banning youtube is not going to stop people from finding videos "insulting Turkishness" if they want to find them.
The real reason because they ban youtube is because it's a popular page.




RE: Banning Pages
By Christopher1 on 1/21/08, Rating: 0
RE: Banning Pages
By HighWing on 1/22/2008 2:04:39 PM , Rating: 1
plus what strikes me as silly is that a lot of stuff on youtube is mirrored on google video, myspace video, yahoo video, etc. etc. etc. and I don't hear any of those sites being banned?


The law was initiated in 1982
By fromturkey on 1/21/2008 4:24:07 PM , Rating: 2
The law which caused this block (Article 301) has been initiated in 1982 together with the contemporaty constitution of Turkey after the military action of 1980. Since then many intellectuals have been punished. There have been attempts to reissue this article recently. Noone in Turkey likes this block which has been issued by some idiots. Unfortunately there are lots of these idiots in TUrkey and they are in strong positions.




By xphile on 1/22/2008 2:42:04 AM , Rating: 2
If you follow the link in the article to the last drama on this subject you'll see I posted on all this idiocy back then. My views haven't changed.

If Turkey want to isolate themselves via their beliefs from the reality that is a free world via the internet then so be it - YouTube should not allow them access to such free speech when it is obviously just opening themselves up to ridicule, harassment and ongoing drama; they should simply block Turkish access - problem over: no complaints possible.

They are just being stupid once again, and I think this round it's time for You Tube to call the President. I mean after all as I understand it it is common practice once every year to pardon a Turkey and that would seem to be exactly what is called for here on the same kind of temporal basis...

I mean sweet outcome right - like um Turkish Delight even.




Orly?
By Wagnbat on 1/22/2008 3:04:21 AM , Rating: 2
"Insulting Turkishness" is a crime? Wow.

I was sent to Ankara, Turkey when the president visited. They beefed up civilian security outside of the military perimeter security, because obviously the president was coming in a few days.

No joke, there was a bomb threat and a suspiscious package was found outside our perimeter... And the 'beefed up' security, Turkish Police, decided to kick the package to see if it was a bomb. It was. Bye bye leg. Article here:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2004-06-24-turk...

How do you insult that? If your people are silly enough to engage what could be an explosive device with an unprotected appendage...




Sense of humour bypass....
By P4blo on 1/22/2008 8:51:37 AM , Rating: 2
I relation to this Turkey is behaving very similar to the rest of the Muslim world when it comes to their beloved prophet. Bottom line is the more touchy and arsy you get, the more people will poke and tease you. Most people learn this basic lesson at school!

The only way to win is to 'rise above it'. Only then do you remove credibility from the detractors and turn the tables. If you dont you are validating, reacting to and recognising their stupidity.

This is basic and well understood human social skill and doesn't need laws and legislation. I wince when I see this stuff....




By klstay on 1/22/2008 8:55:45 AM , Rating: 2
After all, Turkey is:

A) "Run" by Turks
B) Filled with Turks who seem to be OK with A.




It is not something new
By Stratocaster on 1/23/2008 10:16:42 AM , Rating: 2
Well, as an insider I think this law is totally rubbish and outdated. The good thing is soon with the removal of some videos it will definitely be available in this way or another. As you can see we have some minor problems defininig what "freedom" is. But we have guts to solve this at least some people are stiving to solve this problems.




Insulting Turkisness and Youtube
By kdombaz on 1/23/2008 12:45:52 PM , Rating: 2
OK, it seems crazy to people in europe or US we can have a law like that (insulting Turkisness).

Europeans can not understand the Turkish psyche hence these laws look strange. We don't wear our flag as pants, bras etc. I think we take more pride in our country and nation.

Just to give a little bit of information about Turkey

1. We gave the right to vote and be elected to women long before most of the european countries.
2. We adopted western clothing, alphabet, measurements and calendars in 1923 (unlike many other moslem countries)
3. Our civil laws were based on Swiss civil laws hence European origin
4. Education, politics and laws are separated from religious affairs to ensure that religion can not have any influence over these areas of life.
5. We faught in Korea along with Americans and other European forces.
6. We are a founder member of Nato.
7. We have second biggest army in Nato and we were the buffer zone for Europe threat from USSR. Cold war games were played the heaviest in Turkey and nearly caused a civil war between different fractions. As a result we had 3 military juntas 3 different decades only to return to democracy in due course.
8. We invaded Cypress and exercised our right as a guarantor for the Turkish minority. As a result military junta in Greece collapsed and Greece return to democracy and re-joined Nato.
9. Turkey signed the Rome agreement in 1960 to create and join the European Union (btw it was an economic union not a political one as it is now).
10. We are the only prodominantly moslem country which does not have a king, sheek, sultan or khaleef. Elected members of the parliment pass the laws (within the constitution) which governs the country and it's people.

If you put all that into contexts yes I am proud to be Turkish and Ataturk's incredible achievements for my country.

As far as banning the site (Youtube), no need to ban it, just don't look at the crap that'll be enough.

A little long winded but there you are.

Thanks

Trained_Killa

PS. In France you will go to jail if you refuse to accept that the Armenian genoside happened (that's freedom of thought eh!!!)
In the US there is Patriot Law which allows authorities to bug your phone, check your emails and you can go to Guantanamo Bay with no trial or evidence.
Thats's what I call sensible laws.




What I think
By themengsk176 on 1/21/2008 10:10:12 PM , Rating: 1
What should be reasonable is whatever we want to say, as long as what we say causes no harm to anyone else.

And that should be it. Many Americans hold George Washington in very high regard, and rightly so, but he was only a man.

He should not be so sacred and immaculate so as to be above discussion or even criticism, no matter how much we may disagree.

And with regards to Turkey, I think they are really shooting themselves in the foot with this. As long as they have these ridiculous laws that make criticism of certain people and government officials, they are proving that they aren't ready to fit in with first world, western society.




hypocritic fux
By GlassHouse69 on 1/21/08, Rating: -1
RE: hypocritic fux
By TheWizardofOz on 1/22/2008 12:50:20 AM , Rating: 1
Yout ignorance amuses me

What the f*** are toy talking about? Go to library and study Crusades and Ottoman Empire. Get your facts straight and them come back when you have something worth to comment about.


RE: hypocritic fux
By DarkElfa on 1/22/2008 4:13:23 AM , Rating: 2
I guess their "penis" is too small for them to take any unkind words against them without crying about it.

It really is sad when any country is so scared of their citizen's opinions that they have to beat them down with a stick to keep them from being expressed. So I take it that Turkey's government forcing Turkey to look like a bunch of paranoid emos is not insulting to Turkishness?


RE: hypocritic fux
By wordsworm on 1/22/2008 7:02:37 AM , Rating: 1
Is that why the US is constantly harping against France? http://www.littlespeck.com/world/CForeign-penis-06...


RE: hypocritic fux
By DarkElfa on 1/22/2008 5:47:35 PM , Rating: 2
No, that's because France is ran by complacent douche bags.


RE: hypocritic fux
By wordsworm on 1/23/2008 8:47:55 AM , Rating: 2
France is one of the greatest countries on earth. The French are renowned lovers. Heck, they even have a kiss named after them. Paris alone accounts for 27 million visitors every year, which is more than every other country and city combined in the world.

The reason I made the comment was because I couldn't find any sources to see how Turkey's manhood compared to the rest of the world and I didn't care for the way they were insulted. What does manhood have to do with politics, really? If manhood was what made a country great, then I'm sure the nations in Africa would be ruling the world.


wow
By tastyratz on 1/21/08, Rating: -1
RE: wow
By amanojaku on 1/21/2008 3:55:49 PM , Rating: 2
Insulting Turkishness is a form of free speech, but freedom of speech exists in only a few countries. Even in America free speech is limited by various laws.

It's understandable that a government gets touchy about how it's people are depicted because governments, particularly lawmakers, are usually made of patriots. Patriots are scary; they will get violent at the mention that their country or its people are less than perfect.

As an American I enjoy the liberties available to me, but I am appalled at some of my country's history (slaughter of Native Americans, African slavery, imprisonment of Japanese Americans during WWII, initial indifference to the plight of the Jews in Germany, etc...) I once pointed out in another DailyTech article that Japs (slang for Japanese) was an offensive term created by American soldiers. You should have seen the number of people who took offense. But I consider myself lucky: had this been another country I would probably never been heard from again.


RE: wow
By smitty3268 on 1/21/2008 4:23:05 PM , Rating: 1
It's not really that different than the Sedition acts here back in the early 1800's. Luckily, that kind of stuff is long behind us now, and the 1st amendment is taken a little more seriously.


RE: wow
By eye smite on 1/21/2008 4:32:58 PM , Rating: 1
Well something else to keep in mind is common courtesy, respect and decency. If you can't respect another countries beliefs or laws, you don't need to be there and you certainly deserve any contempt they give you. That's just the way it is. If you think this is ludacris though search moral police iran and you will see religious lunacy at it's finest. If iranians want to let their religion rule them with an iron hand, so be it, long as they don't impose upon me, run with it. There's interesting clips of the MP iran on youtube.


RE: wow
By bhieb on 1/21/2008 4:44:23 PM , Rating: 3
I agree with you to an extent, but at what point does simple opression become "crimes against humanity"? At what point does the rest of the world have an obligation to humanity to act.


RE: wow
By eye smite on 1/21/2008 4:49:30 PM , Rating: 1
I'm guessing after our tenure in Iraq that people are willing to quit being busy bodies in other countries. Course that won't happen, we'll find a reason to jump in and stir the pot somewhere. I've had friends go to Turkey and have studied Turkey. They have centuries of this same track record of making decisions that the rest of the world doesn't like at all, and I assure they couldn't give a fat rats backside.


RE: wow
By bhieb on 1/21/2008 5:04:47 PM , Rating: 1
I am not saying Iraq, that IMHO was a huge mistake. If I had to pick current problems I would say some of the problems in Sierra Leone, you know the one continent we Americans choose to ignore.


RE: wow
By amanojaku on 1/21/2008 5:08:41 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
If I had to pick current problems I would say some of the problems in Sierra Leone, you know the one continent we Americans choose to ignore.


I think you meant country . There are seven continents: Africa, Antarctica, Asia, Australia, Europe, North America and South America.


RE: wow
By bhieb on 1/21/2008 5:13:13 PM , Rating: 3
No I meant continent, as we tend to just ignore most of Africa and it's problems. And by we I mean the media, they never really cover some of the horrible crap that goes on there.


RE: wow
By amanojaku on 1/21/2008 5:18:30 PM , Rating: 1
My apologies for nitpicking (and I'm definitely nitpicking :-) but what you said and what you meant are two different things.

Sierra Leone - Country
Africa - Continent


RE: wow
By wordsworm on 1/21/2008 9:55:49 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
My apologies for nitpicking (and I'm definitely nitpicking :-) but what you said and what you meant are two different things.


I disagree. What he said was what he meant. He used a device called 'metonymy,' or more specifically, 'synecdoche.' But since even elementary rhetorical devices such as irony are lost on most people, I shouldn't be surprised.

I just can't figure out why so many people go around 'correcting' others when the problem is just as often themselves. I'm not sure if the act of doing so is an effort to make them feel better about their own deficiencies. Am I alone in thinking this? What he said and what he meant were the same thing.


RE: wow
By eye smite on 1/21/08, Rating: 0
RE: wow
By wordsworm on 1/24/2008 11:11:38 PM , Rating: 2
Certain religious organizations are protected, but not entirely. For example, how many women can you marry, legally, in the US? Just one? Not 4? But the Koran says it's ok... so what's this restriction on freedom?

The US has a citizen/company-controlled restriction on freedoms. Even the military will demote you for posing in Playboy. It's true that they usually won't place you in jail. However, there can be definite consequences to your professional life for expressing yourself.

quote:
It's not America's business to set policy on what other countries do with their own laws and I'm thinking a large amount of you need to get used to that fact.


America makes it its business. Unfortunately, the government itself hasn't gotten your memo, and is incredibly involved in international law making. The UN and WTO are some of their front organizations, for instance, that are used to prevent freedoms such as the free use of marijuana. When Mexico and Canada were getting ready to decriminalize possession, the US was sure to step up to prevent it despite (at least in Mexico's case) a nationwide support - political and popular - of the move. Anyways, your prejudices probably don't allow you to read the plethora of evidence out there that contrast your blatantly ignorant statement.

Mormons conform to what the gov't wants: tax paying, law abiding, paranoid, racist. So, I'm not sure why you're bringing them up as an example. btw, it was the Mormons that started this whole persecution against marijuana and other drugs. Bastards.


RE: wow
By wordsworm on 1/21/2008 10:08:30 PM , Rating: 4
I think the difference between Iraq and Africa is that of power. There's a lot of power in oil. Iraq is a huge key to control over Western Europe. It was definitely not a humanitarian effort. Don't forget the US was behind Saddam when he attacked Iran using chemical weapons. I seem to recall that Saddam was never even formally charged with the atrocity.

The thing that protects Iran is that it supplies China and Russia, and both nations are quite fit enough to give the US a run for its money in an all-out war, barring nuclear attacks. Even then, Russia's arsenal might still be superior to the US's. I know the US is trying to set up a missile shield, but they're, at best, designed to take out 1 or 2 rockets, not 10,000. Even China has too many for the US to stop entirely. It only takes one well placed nuke 30km above the continent to send us all back into the dark ages. (don't forget the things that would get us back on-line are mostly made in China... so if China's at war with the US, where are 'we' going to get replacements?)

Going into Sierra Leone would be a humanitarian effort. It would cost a lot, and there would probably be little if any profit to be made. One could maybe say that western owned DeBeers profits from the chaos in many of these diamond rich countries, and therefore the mess allows the west to effectively deny the citizens of the wealthiest nations (in terms of gold and diamond deposits) the right to comfortable life using their natural resources.

Anyways, my 2cents.


RE: wow
By FNG on 1/21/2008 5:13:17 PM , Rating: 5
They may not care what you and I think, but they damn sure are worried about what the EU thinks. If they do not arrive in the EU at some point in the near future their economic prospects will be harmed. It is laws like insulting turkishness, that will keep the thumbs of the France's and the Belgium's pointed down on each vote that is raised to allow Turkey assession into the EU.


RE: wow
By Adonlude on 1/22/2008 4:36:39 PM , Rating: 2
When it starts affecting the rest of the world then someone will act.


RE: wow
By Stacey Melissa on 1/21/2008 6:18:31 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If you think this is ludacris though search moral police iran and you will see religious lunacy at it's finest. If iranians want to let their religion rule them with an iron hand, so be it, long as they don't impose upon me, run with it.

Actually, Turkey is already in on the act. Just as with YouTube, they've banned the "most prominent" Turkish atheist website, ateizm.org as well. Criticism of the assertions of Islam is apparently not allowed there. One of the founders of the site posted about the ordeal on the Richard Dawkins message board: http://richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20... He said he'd fight the court order via the legal process, except that he couldn't do it anonymously, and without anonymity, the consequences could be deadly.


RE: wow
By hdfan on 1/21/2008 4:52:55 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Japs (slang for Japanese)


And here I am thinking a jap was a jewish american princess.

verification code ; 97xg14


RE: wow
By xti on 1/21/2008 4:44:59 PM , Rating: 2
for realz, i mean, being named after a dumb fat bird is reason enough for open season of ridicule.


RE: wow
By amanojaku on 1/21/2008 5:15:17 PM , Rating: 2
I hope that was sarcasm, because the country is NOT named after the bird. The bird was named after the country, and incorrectly at that. People thought it was in a bird of the same family as that found in Turkey.

Turkey roughly means "strong people" in Arabic.


RE: wow
By bhieb on 1/21/2008 5:23:54 PM , Rating: 2
Wow your on a nit picking role today :)

Be sure to point out that the turkey being dumb is a bit of an old wives tale. In fact as far as hunting goes they are one of the more cunning prey.


RE: wow
By smitty3268 on 1/21/2008 6:56:21 PM , Rating: 1
Wild turkeys are really quite decent animals. It was considered for the national bird but lost out to the bald eagle. The farm raised ones are what everyone is familiar with though, and they are pretty fat/stupid/bred to within an inch of their lives.


RE: wow
By DarkElfa on 1/22/2008 4:15:55 AM , Rating: 2
Well, apparently, they're so strong they can't take anyone talking bad about them.


RE: wow
By mikeyD95125 on 1/21/2008 8:12:37 PM , Rating: 2
Well said!

not


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