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Trophy system seeks to destroy anti-tank missiles and grenades before they impact

The governments of most nations around the globe spend untold sums of money developing weapons that strike at enemies with heavy force, or on a smaller scale through the use of unmanned drones. Many of these nations also spend great sums of money on defensive technologies to protect their troops from enemy weapons.

In August of 2009, Israel Defense Forces announced a new system for defense of tanks that is called the Trophy Active protection system. The system was operational at the time and undergoing extensive testing. The idea behind the Trophy system is to protect tanks from threats including missiles and rocket propelled grenades fired by enemy combatants.

The Trophy system was developed by Rafael Armaments Development Authority and funded by the Defense Ministry of Israel. The system uses an F/G band fire control radar that makes use of four flat panel-antennas that are mounted on the tank or APC giving the system a 360-degree field of view. The radar system detects incoming missiles or RPG's and calculates the point at which the weapon will impact the vehicle and what type of weapon is incoming. 

Once the weapon is classified and the point of impact is calculated the system fires a small "neutralizing agent" which is reportedly a mist of small pellets like a shotgun would fire to destroy the incoming rocket or grenade. The entire system is designed with two things in mind -- protecting the tank or vehicle and its occupants and protecting any ground forces that might be near the vehicle when the countermeasures are fired. The kill zone for the Trophy system was designed to be very small to prevent any injury to friendly forces near the vehicle.

The 
Associated Press reports that Trophy system has now been officially introduced by Israel. If the system can prove itself functional on the battlefield, it could change the face of ground combat and tip the balance of power in Israel's favor if the nation goes to war against Hezbollah or other militant groups in the region.

John Pike from
GlobalSecurity.org told the AP, "I think people will be watching the Israelis roll this thing out and see if they can get the hang of it. The future of the United States army is riding on the proposition that something like this can work."

The U.S. military is working on its own similar system that isn’t ready for the battlefield just yet.

According to the developers of the Trophy system, it is capable of stopping any anti-tank weapon in the Hezbollah arsenal. These weapons were directly responsible for the deaths of at least 19 Israeli tank crewmen during the war between Israel and Hezbollah that raged for a month in 2006.

A Trophy program manager only identified as Gil said, "We can cope with any threat in our neighborhood, and more."

The system is said to cost about $200,000 per installation and the amount is described as a small fraction of the cost of a tank. Rafael, the company behind Trophy, expects that the system will generate lots of international interest and the firm expects customers to order the Trophy system in the coming years.



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The Islamic aggressors...
By TerranMagistrate on 4/8/2010 12:43:14 PM , Rating: 4
Had better rethink their strategies before initiating another war with Israel should this tank defense system prove effective.




RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By a11b11cd on 4/8/10, Rating: 0
RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By DigitalFreak on 4/8/2010 2:08:10 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Bombing cities - where civilians live, is not?


No much choice when the terrorist cowards hide among the civilians.


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By MrPoletski on 4/9/10, Rating: 0
RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By TerranMagistrate on 4/9/2010 10:12:16 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
...the rockets they fire make those paper caps you played with as a kid look like a tomahawk cruise missile.


Something tells me you're not being sarcastic. Do these look like amateur fireworks to you?

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/weapons/q0279...

They're terror weapons regardless of how stupidly inaccurate they are. If you're hit, you're dead.

quote:
The sad thing is the Palestinians that fire these rockets just don't realise how they are playing into the Israeli hand.


The sad thing is your solution to ongoing Palestinian provocation is to bend over and take it. By the way, Israel is already building a defense system to shield against this major threat; it isn't done in a day.



RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By MrPoletski on 4/10/2010 5:39:58 AM , Rating: 2
From your link:
quote:
Most of these rockets are not that much different from large model rockets sold in stores in the west except they are packed with explosives.


Like I said, glorified fireworks.

This thing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goalkeeper_CIWS would eat them for breakfast, has been in service since 1980.

Explain to me why they havent used this, or a modified version of this to defend Israel?

Answer? they need those rockets to land every so often, so they can continue to expand their borders with more military action.


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By ekv on 4/10/2010 10:37:09 PM , Rating: 2
10+ lbs of explosive is a wee bit more than "glorified fireworks".

Goalkeeper, IIRC, is ship-born only. The Phalanx CIWS has a terrestrial version called Centurion. Deployed in 2005. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanx_CIWS
http://defense-update.com/newscast/0508/news/news2...

There is an interesting article "BMD Focus: Barak dithered on Phalanx" at http://www.spacewar.com/reports/BMD_Focus_Barak_di...

The article was written by the liberal Israeli daily Haaretz so that ought to appeal to you. However, the Centurion appears to be sold out for a while, so it would take somebody on the order of, o, say, Barack Obama, to move Israel to the front of the line. Something tells me that ain't gonna happen anytime soon. Why do you think that would be?
quote:
they need those rockets to land every so often
This is just inflammatory beyond comprehension. Why the hard-core, scurrilous vitriol? Do you work for Jeremiah Wright? or perhaps Father Pfleger?


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By DominionSeraph on 4/9/2010 3:27:40 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
build a missile defence system along your border


An artillery rocket is a very different animal from a ballistic missile. A ballistic missile can be tracked from a very long distance, and due to their size/altitude you need a large missile to intercept, giving you a large engagement zone. Given that everything involved is expensive and that a ballistic missile is highly damaging, the cost of a highly accurate guidance system is worthwhile.
An artillery rocket is a little thing that only hits a mile or two of altitude. Using a big missile interceptor would be expensive as hell, dangerous due to the low altitude, and likely not very effective. A small interceptor wouldn't have much range so you'd need dozens of individual sites, and the cost of the guidance packages/tracking radar would be obscene compared to the utility of the rockets.
So you're left with something like CIWS. And I'm sure that the international community would be soooo understanding when thousands of rounds of 20mm start falling on the Palestinians.


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By ekv on 4/9/2010 10:43:50 PM , Rating: 2
There are a couple defensive systems Israel is trying out, which you're probably aware of. However, I'll mention the following...

There was the Skyguard laser system developed by Northrop Grumman but was abandoned in favor of Iron Dome.
http://lasertechnologynews.blogspot.com/2008/03/is...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Dome
It's kind of a scaled down Patriot system. However, using a $50,000 interceptor against a $50 Qassam doesn't appear to be cost effective.

There is Tactical High Energy Laser (THEL). http://www.missilethreat.com/missiledefensesystems...
Supposedly operational by 2007 though I haven't heard if they actually are.

And there are various and sundry other projects on-going. http://www.spacewar.com/rayguns.html

Personally, I'd suggest lots of UAV's. Loiter them 24/7, at a good quiet altitude over typical launch areas. Detect a launch, then you can take action. Yes, Hezbollah will likely pick a Christian neighborhood and break into somebody's house then launch from their roof ... just so any return fire would take out innocent lives. Depressing ain't it?


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By dashrendar on 4/9/10, Rating: 0
RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By NanoTube1 on 4/9/2010 11:44:46 AM , Rating: 3
First, Christians also live in the south and shiites also live in the north.
Second, Hizballah has emplacements all over lebanon.
Third, strategic targets were hit throughout the country in an effort to limit Hizballah's movement and supply routes.

What's your point?


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By geddarkstorm on 4/8/2010 2:16:21 PM , Rating: 5
Err, are you forgetting about the dozens of /rockets/ lobbed into Israel cities per day back before the Lebanon war? Killing uninvolved Israeli citizens? See how you feel about your neighbors if they start blowing up your city on a daily basis. Should you just sit there and do nothing?

I don't think you grasp the complexity or vicious cycle nature of the region. The Islamic extremists want Israel destroyed and refuse to acknowledge it as a nation. They aren't willing to compromise, despite the numerous peace treaty attempts. And Israel isn't willing to compromise its safety either.

The Palestinians are not in any way completely innocent or victims. Both sides are equally a mess. But the Palestinians could knock their crap off and the situation would be fixed in swift order.


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By MrPoletski on 4/9/10, Rating: -1
RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By TerranMagistrate on 4/9/2010 10:33:25 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Are you forgetting about the.... Israel roadblocks throughout palestine causing families to be split, people to die because they can't get to the hospital they need to get to, people unable to get to work, women giving birth in the street... Are you forgetting about the violence from Israeli settlers, beating up farmers, destroying their crops (their livelihood), all the while with the IDF standing by doing nothing (unless of course they attack the settlers back). Are you forgetting about the THOUSANDS of palestinians that get killed by retaliation for rocket attacks, the children that get shot in the head for playing on palestinian land that ISRAELIS have decided are 'killzones'. Are you forgetting the control that Israel has over the media and the details of which facts reach your eyes and ears and which don't?


So in essence you blame Israel for Hamas and Hezbollah actively and intentionally hiding behind civilians when Israel retaliates to maximize casualties for the media.

And have you forgotten or are you completely ignorant to the suicides bombings that frequently took place prior to the road blocks being set up. When buses full of people are blown to hell every other week, setting up road blocks seems like a modest measure to counter these cowardly atrocities.

quote:
They are not completely innocent, but their crimes are understandable. Both sides have comitted war crimes, but only ONE side is desperate enough to have to commit them. Just do this, look up the number of deaths on either side. Look up the number of deaths of children on either side. It's like 1000:1 in favour of the Israelis. They have nothing in palestine because every time they build something, Israel comes along and blows the fuck out of it.


So you can sympathize with the Islamic aggressors, that explains plenty. When the entire Palestinian population is indoctrinated from birth to hate and despise their Jews neighbors with all of their hearts, is it any wonder why they willingly participate and die with their Islamic terrorist aggressors? Casualties run high on the Palestinian side regardless of how much painstaking effort Israel puts forth to reduce them.


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By MrPoletski on 4/10/2010 5:33:03 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
So in essence you blame Israel for Hamas and Hezbollah actively and intentionally hiding behind civilians when Israel retaliates to maximize casualties for the media.


...or maybe they just *are* civilians. I'm tired of hearing 'rebel leader bombed at his compound' 30 women and children dead, including his wife and whildren, because he hid his compound in a dense residential district.

No, he was at fucking home, living in his house like normal opeople do, then you came and dropped a 500lb bomb on it. That's not insurgents using human shields, it's a fucking effecitve Israeli propaganda machine.

quote:
And have you forgotten or are you completely ignorant to the suicides bombings that frequently took place prior to the road blocks being set up. When buses full of people are blown to hell every other week, setting up road blocks seems like a modest measure to counter these cowardly atrocities.


How about getting the fuck out their country and stop building illegal settlements on their land and.. do something about the behaviour of settlers.


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By ekv on 4/9/2010 10:55:52 PM , Rating: 2
I'd say Israel being surrounded as they are, do have a desperate situation. I believe their behaviour values life more than the Palestinians do.

If your strategy is to hide behind the skirts of women and children you have not my respect and are likely receiving your just desserts. As far as buildings, how many Qassams have been launched? How much damage have they cost Israel? How much the cost for Israel to protect against such an indiscriminate terror weapon? Hezbollah neither knows nor cares what they destroy.

You lose my respect sir.


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By daman5 on 4/8/10, Rating: -1
RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By TerranMagistrate on 4/8/2010 5:01:28 PM , Rating: 4
The majority of Muslims are moderate. The harsh reality is that there is no moderate Islam.

And Islam is unlike any other major religion in the world in that it is also a political ideology complete with explicit laws that govern every aspect of society.

If the root cause of this perpetual conflict in the Middle East and elsewhere is not acknowledged, the problem will never be resolved. It's as simple as that.


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By MrPoletski on 4/9/10, Rating: -1
RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By NanoTube1 on 4/9/2010 9:24:32 AM , Rating: 1
Oh you have been here... that's nice. I guess it makes you a fucken EXPERT on the subject.


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By MrPoletski on 4/9/2010 9:30:11 AM , Rating: 1
It makes me have the slightest clue about what I am talking about, what do YOU have that makes your say so more credible?

Wait... are you Israeli? I'm sure you'll provide a clear cut unbaised view of what's happening, I'm sure your government gives you all the facts too.

Wait... are you American? got all your news from Fox and CNN? yeah you know what's going on there and you know EXACTLY what muslims are like, yeah they're all sharpeneing their scimitars waiting to come over and fuck your daughter, yeah that's right.


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By NanoTube1 on 4/9/2010 9:38:03 AM , Rating: 3
LOL@ Poletski

Unlike you, I live among them! In fact I know quite a few of them and I interact with them quite often. In the market, when I buy meat in their shops, When I eat at their restaurants and when I need any other service they are really good at and are happy to provide!

Accusing an Israeli of not understanding the situation in his own country and region is like accusing a native Chinese that he doesn't know how to eat with chop sticks!

You seem to me like one of those losers that go to Bili'n to demonstrate... come-on admit it!


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By MrPoletski on 4/9/2010 9:58:34 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Unlike you, I live among them! In fact I know quite a few of them and I interact with them quite often. In the market, when I buy meat in their shops, When I eat at their restaurants and when I need any other service they are really good at and are happy to provide!


Are you telling me that you are an Israeli that happily saunters over into Palestine and buys from their shops and restaurants? So they let you do that, but then you think it's ok to bomb that shop later because some guy launched a shitty homemade rocket that missed everything the next day?

quote:
Accusing an Israeli of not understanding the situation in his own country and region is like accusing a native Chinese that he doesn't know how to eat with chop sticks!


No it isn't, have you ever asked an American about US healthcare reform? Seriosuly, if not, try it.

quote:
You seem to me like one of those losers that go to Bili'n to demonstrate... come-on admit it!


Do tell, your (rough) location, employment etc. Try not to lie.

Also, tell me why you can't shoot down these homemade unguided rockets with a missile defence system rather collectively blowing the fuck out of all the palestinians?

How much did operation cast lead cost huh? compare that to a rocket defence barrier around sedrot and others? If you were interested in peace you'd have put up goalkeeper or aegis style defence platforms along your border and had no rockets make it past at all. Instead.. you launch all of your USA paid for munitions, destroy power plants, water facilities, bridges... yanno all those things people need to live and... are.. umm.. vital components of rockets.. eyah.


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By NanoTube1 on 4/9/2010 10:44:20 AM , Rating: 1
You seems quite interested, so I'll indulge you.
quote:
Are you telling me that you are an Israeli that happily saunters over into Palestine and buys from their shops and restaurants? So they let you do that, but then you think it's ok to bomb that shop later because some guy launched a shitty homemade rocket that missed everything the next day?

As we and the palestinians basically live inside each others collective asses, commerce is quite massive. One doesn't need to travel to far away villages just to buy something from an arab or a jew. You can go and shop in arab businesses in Tel Aviv, Haifa, Jerusalem and many other cities - large or small. Furthermore, when you travel outside the large cities and throughout Israel you can't avoid passing through or near by either muslim or jewish towns and villages. The palestinians don't need to "allow" us to buy, they are quite happy when we choose freely to buy at their shops and we enjoy buying from them. Same goes for them purchasing goods and services from us.
Furthermore, we do not bomb their business or homes as an act of recreation - combat usually takes place in urban environments and as such both businesses and households are damaged. It's not that Israelis wake up one morning and decide to arbitrarily attack someone (no matter what the BBC tells you). On the contrary, palestinian suicide bombers are always more than happy to blow up a packed restaurant/bus/sidewalk.

quote:
Do tell, your (rough) location, employment etc. Try not to lie.

Happy to. My current location is Tel Aviv and I have lived in Kfar Saba near the territories for quite some time (near the arab city Qalqilya and the village Tira). My work is in the high-tech industry. I like my wife, music, cooking and geeking around with my hackintosh.
What would I lie about it? :)

Please do tell me a little more about you as now I am curious.

quote:
How much did operation cast lead cost huh? compare that to a rocket defence barrier around sedrot and others? If you were interested in peace you'd have put up goalkeeper or aegis style defence platforms along your border and had no rockets make it past at all. Instead.. you launch all of your USA paid for munitions, destroy power plants, water facilities, bridges... yanno all those things people need to live and... are.. umm.. vital components of rockets.. eyah.


You speak of placing rocket defense systems as if this is trivial as drinking a can of coca-cola. IF you already have the R&D capability (which takes time and huge efforts), you then need to produce it, deploy and maintain - this is all extremely complicated and challenging not to mention horrifically expensive. Aegis systems are meant to deal with ballistic missiles - not katyusha rockets and goalkeeper has it's own issue - you know, the bullets that you fire into the sky will eventually land somewhere, and these are big-ass ugly bullets, not 5.56mm ones. They can either land on Israel houses and businesses or in the palestinians businesses and kinder gardens - ON A DAILY BASIS. Furthermore, the goalkeeper effectiveness against rockets is debatable. One needs a dependable system.

Anyway, I have a better solution for you - why wouldn't the Gazans just stop firing rockets?! You see?! A novel idea!! Don't fire at us, we won't fire at you! A truly new middle east!


By TerranMagistrate on 4/9/2010 10:52:12 AM , Rating: 2
That's a laugh, you're attempting to disprove me with your personal travel experiences.

I was alluding to the fact that Islamic teachings are fundamentally "extremist" and they do incite around 90% of all terrorism that occurs in the world today. Like in any other religion in the world, the vast majority of Muslims wisely choose to not act on these teachings of Islam and hence they are moderates.

But the truth about the adherents of Islam is that they can be "radicalized" overnight. Islam has been hostile to the rest of the world since its founding when its so-called prophet declared that Islam must be spread to all people by whatever means necessary.


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By Seemonkeyscanfly on 4/8/2010 5:57:58 PM , Rating: 5
"Remember the Michigan militia from a week ago? They were Christian, we don't suddenly label all of Christianity as ready to kill police officers and bring down the government do we? Don't use a double standard."

Incorrect... They claimed to be Christians. Their actions and way of life is far from the life style of a Christian. Just because someone claims to be something does not mean they are.. Otherwise I'm going to claim I graduated from every Ivy league school, therefor pay me more.


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By daman5 on 4/9/2010 9:32:44 AM , Rating: 2
Ok I'll counter that statement and say something very similar then...in line with my "double standard" statement above......

"They claimed to be Muslims. Their actions and way of life is far from the life style of a Muslim. Just because someone claims to be something does not mean they are.. Otherwise I'm going to claim I graduated from every Ivy league school, therefor pay me more."


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By MrPoletski on 4/9/2010 10:09:10 AM , Rating: 2
I'm sorry, that argument only works for christians, muslims aren't allowed to use that argument because they are circularly bound by logic because of their Islamic nature.


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By TerranMagistrate on 4/9/2010 11:04:23 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Ok I'll counter that statement and say something very similar then...in line with my "double standard" statement above......

"They claimed to be Muslims. Their actions and way of life is far from the life style of a Muslim. Just because someone claims to be something does not mean they are.. Otherwise I'm going to claim I graduated from every Ivy league school, therefor pay me more."


And I'll counter you by pointing to the texts of Islam, the Qu'ran and Hadiths to prove that Islamic terrorist actions are not far from the lifestyle of a pious Muslim who acts against the un-islamic authorities.


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By daman5 on 4/9/2010 12:51:02 PM , Rating: 2
The writings are questionable no doubt. But again I can make a few subs on your statement and say "I'll counter you by pointing to the Bible to prove that Christian/Catholic zealot actions are not far from the lifestyle of a pious Christian/Catholic, who acts against the un-Christian/Catholic authorities."

Overall anyone should be hard pressed to disagree that following the teachings of 2000+ year old writings (any of them) is not the best way to function in modern day civilization. Though I'm sure there's plenty out there!


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By ekv on 4/9/2010 11:14:28 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Overall anyone should be hard pressed to disagree that following the teachings of 2000+ year old writings (any of them) is not the best way to function in modern day civilization.
But it is ok to follow the teachings of 1300 year old writings?

I don't see anything in the New Testament that says 'cut off the infidel's head.' Do you? I don't see Christians taking over jets and flying them into, what, mosques? lol

The Trophy Tank Defense System is just that, a defensive system.


By Seemonkeyscanfly on 4/13/2010 5:35:52 PM , Rating: 2
Not think are we... The Bible gives it's lesson to man because the problems of man today match the problems of man 200, 2000, 4000+ years ago. It's only the silly people that think that modern man has different problems then man of years back. Think about.. what is the famous statement: "Learn from history or be forced to repeat it". If man did not have the same problem today as 3000 years ago we would not repeat history. So you either think like a man from over 3000 or 4000 year ago or your a real modern thinker and use the Bible for learning tool.
You could try and argue that Muslim are newer... but Christian will just say, they took the Bible and twisted it. Either way, both are newer thinking then "your modern day civilization thought". You are repeat history once again... Morals are dropping like a rock with less and less influence from the Bible on society.


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By NanoTube1 on 4/8/2010 2:27:23 PM , Rating: 5
You are asking for it, so you'll get it.

So, now the palestinians are innocent "cornered kitties" just lashing out at the aggressor eh?
How about them kitties? http://images21.fotki.com/v194/photos/5/1222605/83...

or these? http://www.seraphicpress.com/images/PalestinianNaz...

or maybe these kittens from Hizballah? http://undhimmi.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/hez...

I can go on forever and don't get me started with youtube and MEMRI videos.

The more the arabs believe they are winning the better it is for us. Allah blessed the arabs with a lot of imagination - especially when it comes to wars with Israel. You see, they always "win". In the 2006 Lebanon war, they had a "God given Victory" over us: they lost almost 1,000 of their best trained men, they lost their C&C centers, they lost massive quantities of equipment, their bunkers where destroyed, their villages are in still in ruin to this day and they were mostly pushed out from southern lebanon. But yeah, they completely destroyed about 4 to 8 of our tanks (out of 40 they actually hit) and successfully fired rockets from within their civilian centers... my my, what a glorious victory! One more victory like that is all what Israel needs.

I admit, that the IDFs performance in the 2006 war were not exactly impressive, but these deficiencies are mostly taken care of today.

As to the operation in Gaza, well... I guess that after firing about 8,000 rockets on our cities and villages we had a right to counter. You see, we left Gaza but instead of using this as a launching point for a lasting peace, they decided that it was another "glorious victory" and went on their usual rampage. Poor kitties!


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By seraphim1982 on 4/8/10, Rating: -1
RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By NanoTube1 on 4/8/2010 4:13:27 PM , Rating: 4
First and foremost, I definitely do not need Noam Chomsky to understand what is going on in my own country (Israel). Second, Noam Chomsky is a notorious anti-Israelite, self hating jew, which I as an Israeli Jew find unacceptable. If you are not from our region, I can understand why you need to read "books" in order to try and understand what the hell is going on here. Good for you, but I live here, I know my neighborhoods and the people living at it.

Second, this is not about extremists or moderates. The problem emanates from Islam's incapacity to tolerate anything else that is even slightly different from itself. The "others" may be Israelis, Europeans, Thais, Chinese or Indians - it doesn't matter. And if you are thinking that it won't happen in the US, you are living in an illusion - it already began.
In order for this to stop, Muslims must alter their religion/culture core issue - intolerance. Until this happens, nothing will ever change.

Currently, Islam is engaged in many conflicts that has nothing to do with Israel or the US: Western China, Sudan (Darfur), Nigeria, Southern Thailand, Chechnia, Dagastan and India (Kashmir). I am sure I forgot some...

Third, I cannot attest to what the US did or didn't do, I leave it to the Americans to do so.

Finally, Israel needs no excuses or permission to develop it's own weapons systems and then sell it to other countries.


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By Reclaimer77 on 4/8/2010 11:19:27 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If you are not from our region, I can understand why you need to read "books" in order to try and understand what the hell is going on here. Good for you, but I live here, I know my neighborhoods and the people living at it.


I'm an American and I don't pretend I understand fully what goes on over there or why.

But I do know one thing. Israel is surrounded on all sides by 5 Muslim nations that hate them and have tried to take them over in the past and failed. And as far as I can tell, the most offensive thing Israel has ever done to earn all this hate was to live the way they wanted to and not in the backwoods middle ages times stone ages like all those idiots who surround them. Oh yeah, plus the Jews live there and they don't even TRY to mask their utter disdain toward Israel because of that.

It's not all that complicated. Israel is good, and they are bad. It's really that simple. Israel has made concession after concession and they still hate them. Remember Gaza ?? Yeah, that was rightfully theirs. That's what happens when you start a war and lose. But Israel gave Gaza up to try and appease these cave man idiots. Which didn't work of course.

Seriously, everywhere in the Middle East besides Israel is a shithole. The way those people live is just.. their complete savages. Which comes to your other point.

quote:
In order for this to stop, Muslims must alter their religion/culture core issue - intolerance. Until this happens, nothing will ever change.


You nailed it. Not only are they intolerant to each other and use Sharia law to bully their own into submission, but everyone ELSE that doesn't follow Sharia law deserves to be tortured or killed in their minds. Fucking savages, let's just come out and call them what they are.

Israel is a modern paradise surrounded by a freaky Land Before Christ timewarp or something. It's the most absurd contrast you can imagine. I wish Israel would do the whole world a service and take over the entire region by force. Why should they have to put up with rocket attacks and terrorist attacks ? And don't give me the "extremist" bit, they are state sponsored and everyone knows it.


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By MrPoletski on 4/9/2010 9:02:09 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
But I do know one thing. Israel is surrounded on all sides by 5 Muslim nations that hate them and have tried to take them over in the past and failed. And as far as I can tell, the most offensive thing Israel has ever done to earn all this hate was to live the way they wanted to and not in the backwoods middle ages times stone ages like all those idiots who surround them. Oh yeah, plus the Jews live there and they don't even TRY to mask their utter disdain toward Israel because of that.


The most offensive thing Israel has ever done is to live the way they want to? you need to do some reading of history. The beef surrounding nations always had with Israel was that it shouldn't be there, it wasn't there before 1948 and then the British and Americans came along, turfed out the ntives and gave Jerusalem to the Jews. Jerusalem has been fought over for thousands of years. The further beef they have had is agressive expansionist policies of the Israeli government and the apartheid state that they have produced there.

quote:
It's not all that complicated. Israel is good, and they are bad.


To a brainwashed child, maybe. It's infinitely more complicated than that.

quote:
It's really that simple. Israel has made concession after concession and they still hate them. Remember Gaza ?? Yeah, that was rightfully theirs. That's what happens when you start a war and lose. But Israel gave Gaza up to try and appease these cave man idiots. Which didn't work of course.


Israel has done no such thing. Israel sits back and claims that they aren't interested in peace because they won't accept the terms they offer. Terms that nobody on the other side would ever accept, tantamount to 'give it all to us'.

quote:
Seriously, everywhere in the Middle East besides Israel is a shithole. The way those people live is just.. their complete savages. Which comes to your other point.


Something to do with the way that Israel has bombed the fuck out of those places for the last 40 years, whilst itself receiving 15 million dollars of aid EVERY DAY, from you, the gullible american taxpayer.

quote:
You nailed it. Not only are they intolerant to each other and use Sharia law to bully their own into submission, but everyone ELSE that doesn't follow Sharia law deserves to be tortured or killed in their minds. Fucking savages, let's just come out and call them what they are.


You can't criticise religious people for living by their religious ways. There are many things wrong with the way the Muslim faith is enforced in certain countries, but it is not the same throughout countries and just as bad in others - others that are not muslim countries.

quote:
Israel is a modern paradise surrounded by a freaky Land Before Christ timewarp or something. It's the most absurd contrast you can imagine. I wish Israel would do the whole world a service and take over the entire region by force.


They already did that, look how it turned out.

quote:
Why should they have to put up with rocket attacks and terrorist attacks ? And don't give me the "extremist" bit, they are state sponsored and everyone knows it.


They are state sponsored because Fox News told you so, there isn't enough of a 'state' over there anymore to sponsor anything. Those rocket attacks could be dealt with in so many ways, Israel appears to choose the way which maximises their ability to wipe out people near their borders (and then illegally expand their settlements) and destroy any ability of those it has attacked to recover.

Besides, if Israel is such a paradise, why don't you go there and try driving down the Jew only roads and speaking out against the government. See how long you last.


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By NanoTube1 on 4/9/2010 9:17:07 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
"An apartheid state... aggressive expansionist policies... unacceptable terms... Israel has bombed the fuck out of those places for the last 40 years... They are state sponsored because Fox News told you so..."


What we have here is a mutant category of the "Chomsky book reader", it's called the "BBC viewer". What a crock of sh*t!

Your claims are so outrageously imaginary, that they are not even worth countering. It's like debating if the earth is flat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wppjYDj9JUc


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By MrPoletski on 4/9/2010 9:25:41 AM , Rating: 2
What do you watch for your news then? Fox?


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By NanoTube1 on 4/9/2010 9:29:41 AM , Rating: 2
Al Jazeera, Channels 2/10 news, Al Arabia, CNN and Fox.

What do you watch?


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By MrPoletski on 4/9/2010 9:46:09 AM , Rating: 1
You watch Al Jazeera? what, and dismiss it all as lies?

I don't watch specific news channels. I get wind of a news story and I find as many places that aren't reprinting the same associated press story as I can (most of the news you hear in the states is an associated press rehash).

That does not always, but often includes the BBC, Al Jazeera, informationclearinghouse, uruknet, wikileaks and various UK tabloids (but I try not to listen to the daily mail).

I don't actually watch television anymore, it's full of shit. I get my news from the internet, where at least you KNOW you have to get a second/third opinion on the story.


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By NanoTube1 on 4/9/2010 10:03:54 AM , Rating: 2
I watch Al Jazeera and read their website as well.

It's important for me to see what the other side is reporting. Usually, the reporting is not complete and quite biased - by that I mean that they greatly emphasize what Israel is doing (usually in a bad way) and not what the other side is doing (be it palestinians, lebanese, syrians,whatever...).

The importance of Al Jazeera and Al Arabia is that it opens the arab culture to the outside world and from time to time even criticize the arab regimes. Self critique is a new and important phenomenon in the arab world and as such worth noticing.


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By MrPoletski on 4/9/2010 9:27:10 AM , Rating: 1
RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By NanoTube1 on 4/9/2010 9:55:13 AM , Rating: 2
You lost me in "Shulamit Aloni". And by the way, you can find far more radical leftists in Israel. Aloni is small change compared to others.

As to closure of roads... these close and open up quite frequently depending on the security assessments. I guess that when your neighbors have a tendency to drive-by and machine gun you as you drive your car with your family may have some consequence from time to time.

Last but not least, Apartheid is a system based on racial discrimination. There is no racial discrimination of muslims or christians or any other religion or race in Israel. In fact, the arab muslims living in Israel enjoy freedom that they cannot even dream of in arab/muslim states.


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By MrPoletski on 4/9/2010 10:07:25 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Last but not least, Apartheid is a system based on racial discrimination. There is no racial discrimination of muslims or christians or any other religion or race in Israel.


Umm, RACIAL descrimination is based on RACE, not RELIGION. It is coincidence that most arabs are muslim.

quote:
In fact, the arab muslims living in Israel enjoy freedom that they cannot even dream of in arab/muslim states.


Tell me, is it freedom when your supreme court has to override descisions like this: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1057497.html

The freedom they get in neighbouring countries is to be bombed when they democratically elect somebody their neighbours don't like.

Answer me this, what would Israel do without the massive financial support it gets fromt he USA?


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By NanoTube1 on 4/9/2010 11:01:38 AM , Rating: 2
Ay yay yay...

quote:
Umm, RACIAL descrimination is based on RACE, not RELIGION. It is coincidence that most arabs are muslim.


This is why I wrote religion OR race. In the middle east, religion is far more important than race and if there would be any discrimination it would probably be on religious basis - exactly like the discrimination that openly exists in muslim states. Anyway, my argument is still valid - Israel is not an apartheid state. Never was, never will be. In fact, it is a liberal state to the point of annoyance!

quote:
Tell me, is it freedom when your supreme court has to override descisions like this: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1057497.html


Just shows you that the democratic system works. In an apartheid state, the supreme court would have cemented this proposal as law. In Israel, it was kicked out of the door immediately. By the way, the basis for this proposition was not racial. It was basically a political message by the Israeli right to the leaders of the arab parties in Israel that they have gone too far with their day & night incitement against their own country. To a person from the EU or US it might look like a politically incorrect thing to do, but this is the middle east - it's a rough place and we have a different language here. Just so you know, everyone knew that this proposal would never last and the arab leaders actually got the message and toned down their acts. It is ok to protest and shout, but it is not OK to openly subvert your own country, incite the arab population against the jewish one and question it's right to exist. Capish?


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By NanoTube1 on 4/9/2010 12:16:07 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Answer me this, what would Israel do without the massive financial support it gets fromt he USA?


This is a common mistake. The US aid for Israel is actually only a small percentage of the Israeli budget. If the US do stops its financial support it will be a little more difficult but in no way will it be a crippling blow to our country.

Furthermore, the money Israel receives from the US is invested in two major categories:
1. Buying military equipment produced in the US.
2. Funding Israeli military R&D that is fully shared with the US.

In case the US is not interested in proving this kind of support, Israel will produce it's own equipment (as we do in many cases) and increase it's military exports to compensate on the financial side.


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By Reclaimer77 on 4/9/2010 11:01:14 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
The beef surrounding nations always had with Israel was that it shouldn't be there


Technically by your logic neither should America because it "belonged" to the Indians first. So what ? It's neither here nor there.

quote:
it wasn't there before 1948 and then the British and Americans came along, turfed out the ntives and gave Jerusalem to the Jews.


Exactly. Curse the infidels !!!! We were SO close to wiping the Jews off the face of the earth too !!!

Be honest, is the beef REALLY because it "shouldn't be there" ? Or is it more about anti-Semitic ??

quote:
The further beef they have had is agressive expansionist policies of the Israeli government and the apartheid state that they have produced there


?????

Expansionists ??? They could take over those countries at ANY moment militarily, but don't. Wtf are you talking about expansionist ?

quote:
You can't criticise religious people for living by their religious ways.


I sure as hell CAN when they murder others that don't believe in their beliefs. And when they hate me, some dude they haven't met thousands of miles away, simply because I'm not one of them. They display the WORSE side of religion and none of the happy faith fun parts of Christianity. There is a big difference between dying for you faith and killing others for it. Jesus, so Christianity claims, died for us. He didn't go around hating and killing everyone who didn't follow him and his Father (god).

quote:
Israel has done no such thing. Israel sits back and claims that they aren't interested in peace because they won't accept the terms they offer. Terms that nobody on the other side would ever accept, tantamount to 'give it all to us'.


Again, to the victor goes the spoils. THEY decided to invade Israel and lost, so Israel get's to set the terms. This is what happens WHEN YOU START A WAR AND LOSE !

And please tell me what these unacceptable terms are, because I don't know. But I'm willing to bet the resistance to them has got more to do with thousand year old hates and racism's than actual issues with the terms.

quote:
They are state sponsored because Fox News told you so, there isn't enough of a 'state' over there anymore to sponsor anything.


Right because all those fatcat Jews are keeping them down. Right ? It can't possibly be because they choose to LIVE IN THE STONE AGE can it ? Or cling to beliefs and viewpoints that the rest of the freaking world got out of a thousand years ago ?

quote:
To a brainwashed child, maybe. It's infinitely more complicated than that.


Right I can't possibly have my own opinion. Clearly I have been "brainwashed" by Israel. Because, you know, I have such close ties to them apparently. Hell I can't go outside and pick up my paper without some agent of Israel whispering in my ear.

I do have a job and get paid though... and hmmmm, the name signing my checks does look suspiciously Jewish..... Maybe that's it ??


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By MrPoletski on 4/15/2010 7:29:37 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Technically by your logic neither should America because it "belonged" to the Indians first. So what ? It's neither here nor there.


1776-2010 vs 1948-2010. Do you understand what a difference of 234 years vs 62 years makes?

quote:
Exactly. Curse the infidels !!!! We were SO close to wiping the Jews off the face of the earth too !!!


Erm, how about they set up a Jewish state in Germany/Poland? yahnno, where most of these exiled Jews came from. And what are you smoking 'we were so far to wiping them out'?

quote:
Be honest, is the beef REALLY because it "shouldn't be there" ? Or is it more about anti-Semitic ??


Every criticism of Israel is labled anti-semitism nowadays, legitimate or not. So hell yeah, it's all Jew hating racist anti semitism, because Israel CAN DO NO FUCKING WRONG can they.

quote:
Expansionists ??? They could take over those countries at ANY moment militarily, but don't. Wtf are you talking about expansionist ?


No they couldn't, try thinking about what would happen if they tried that. I never came here claiming that Israelies are stupid, but you just sorta implied that they (or you) are.

quote:
I sure as hell CAN when they murder others that don't believe in their beliefs.


American soldiers are doing that all the time in Iraq and Afghanistan, I don't hear you whining. Or do you mean to say that some religious edict is why Muslims in Palestine fire rockets into Israel. It's some 'they are not muslims therefore they must die' thing that Muslims rigidly adhere too right? Wrong, the conflict over there is all about land and who owns it, stoked up by the religious differences across the borders. Everything else prolonging the conflict is just a symptom of the conflict itself, the bombings the rockets the prisoners the curfews etc.

quote:
And when they hate me, some dude they haven't met thousands of miles away, simply because I'm not one of them. They display the WORSE side of religion and none of the happy faith fun parts of Christianity. There is a big difference between dying for you faith and killing others for it. Jesus, so Christianity claims, died for us. He didn't go around hating and killing everyone who didn't follow him and his Father (god).


He killed all the first born of Egypt didn't he? *cough*
Once again, religion is the excuse, not the cause. It is used to stoke up support for either side. It's done in every fucking war.

quote:
Again, to the victor goes the spoils. THEY decided to invade Israel and lost, so Israel get's to set the terms. This is what happens WHEN YOU START A WAR AND LOSE !


Erm, are you referring to the six days war? We'll I think you'll find that ISRAEL was the one that invaded, pre-emptive strike style. Sure, ther were prior border skirmishes and enemy troops amassing around them, but Israel fierd the first real shots. Anyway, that was in 1967. It is the fucking 1967 borders that gaza/Palestine are trying to get Isreal to honour. You know, the borders Israel agreed to in the peace settlement. since then, Israel has repeatedly bombed, cleared and illegally settled on land that by these 1967 agreed borders, does not belong to them. They keep doing this, they keep expanding into land that is not theirs.

quote:
And please tell me what these unacceptable terms are, because I don't know.


Give us all the land we've taken from you. That's like your neighbour moving the garden fence two feet in your direction and planting his own shit on his side. Then he comes around with a bit of paper for you to sign to hand over part of your yard - or else he'll beat the shit out of you with this crowbar. When you refuse, he comes out and says that you are the one not interested in a peaceful resolution to the matter.

quote:
But I'm willing to bet the resistance to them has got more to do with thousand year old hates and racism's than actual issues with the terms.


They want their state back, they want their borders back, if they were given those then the situation would improve enourmously, though a number of them will still want revenge for past transgressions.

quote:
Right because all those fatcat Jews are keeping them down. Right ?


YES, did you fucking miss how power stations, water treatment plants, schools etc have been bombed to hell? did you miss that? Why would you bomb a power station to stop rocket attacks huh? why would you bomb bridges, hospitals, UN FUCKING AID CENTRES WITH WHITE PHOSPHORUS!?!?

quote:
It can't possibly be because they choose to LIVE IN THE STONE AGE can it ?


No, because they didn't make that choice, they chose to build schools, hospitals, sanitation etc, Israel chose to destroy those things. That is why they are in the stone age, Israel said they would bomb them to the stone age and then did.

quote:
Or cling to beliefs and viewpoints that the rest of the freaking world got out of a thousand years ago ?


Well that's bullshit, why don't you tell me what you think of homosexuals;)

quote:
Right I can't possibly have my own opinion. Clearly I have been "brainwashed" by Israel.


Well when you present you opinion as:

ISRAEL: GOOD
THE OTHER GUYS: BAD
"It's really as simple as that"

Then you can expect to have your opinion derided as childish and brainwashed. Not neccesarily by Israel though.

quote:
Because, you know, I have such close ties to them apparently. Hell I can't go outside and pick up my paper without some agent of Israel whispering in my ear.


You are so fucking ignorant.


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By NanoTube1 on 4/16/2010 11:15:55 AM , Rating: 1
You lying coward anti semitic POS.
People like you make me 100 times more proud to be an Israeli Jew.

It's soooo good that we don't live among people like you anymore, unarmed, unable to defend ourselves. I look at your anti semitic rants and then I think about my country, my people, our army, our cities, our villages, our cutting edge industries and our beautiful land and I am happy and confident and full of will to live, to create, to build, to overcome.

You are nothing. A nothing that knows nothing about nothing!
:)

P.S
According to one of the links you posted (google.co.uk...), I assume you are british and it doesn't surprise me!


By TerranMagistrate on 4/8/2010 5:14:33 PM , Rating: 2
When one side declares their ultimate goal to be the destruction of the other side, only a moron such as yourself makes the claim that both sides are equally at fault for the unending conflict.

Or perhaps it isn't stupidity and ignorance but hatred in the form of antisemitism.


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By seraphim1982 on 4/9/10, Rating: -1
RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By NanoTube1 on 4/9/2010 12:06:32 PM , Rating: 2
* Giving seraphim1982 a pill and making sure he swallows *
Poor man...


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By a11b11cd on 4/8/10, Rating: 0
RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By MrPoletski on 4/9/2010 9:24:26 AM , Rating: 2
Us? so you're Israeli?


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By NanoTube1 on 4/9/2010 9:40:11 AM , Rating: 2
Yes :)


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By MrPoletski on 4/9/2010 10:02:02 AM , Rating: 2
Are you religious?


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By NanoTube1 on 4/9/2010 11:39:20 AM , Rating: 2
Not really. Why are you asking?


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By MrPoletski on 4/9/2010 10:00:24 AM , Rating: 2
OH NOES, THEY DID THE NAZI SALUTE, THEY MUST BE EEEEEVVIIIILLLLL.


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By NanoTube1 on 4/9/2010 11:38:37 AM , Rating: 2
No, they are doing the Nazi salute because they are good hearted people...


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By yomamafor1 on 4/8/2010 2:50:13 PM , Rating: 1
I also didn't know a "cornered kitty" continued to make threats such as "Israel should be wipe off the map", or that Israel "must be vanished from the page of time", or "suffering by fire is the Jews' destiny in this world and the next", or "...we are sure that the Holocaust is still to come upon the Jews."

Its quite hard to make peace with a neighbor who constantly shouts threats at you, wants to see you dead, and attack you daily with rockets.


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By ekv on 4/9/2010 10:23:02 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Even animals have rights, but the palestinians dont even seem to have the basic animal rights.
Didn't the UN make provision for the Palestinians to live in Syria and Jordan? Can you tell me why they aren't all living there? Wouldn't they be happier there, with their Islamic brethren? [Instead of needlessly agitating the Israeli's]


RE: The Islamic aggressors...
By MrPoletski on 4/10/2010 5:34:47 AM , Rating: 1
you sir, are on the ball.


Might want to edit the lede, Shane
By porkpie on 4/8/2010 11:23:11 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
The governments of most nations around the globe spend untold sums of money developing weapons that can protect them from enemies. Many of these nations also spend great sums of money on defensive technologies to protect their troops from enemy weapons.
Looks to be a bit redundant, nyet?




RE: Might want to edit the lede, Shane
By Spivonious on 4/8/2010 11:24:24 AM , Rating: 1
No, it's not redundant at all. One is buying offensive weapons; one is buying defensive weapons.


RE: Might want to edit the lede, Shane
By porkpie on 4/8/2010 11:40:25 AM , Rating: 3
"..to protect them from enemies...and to protect them from enemy weapons".

Do defensive weapons not protect people from their enemies? I understand the concept he was trying to communicate, but the phrasing is very poor.


By Brandon Hill (blog) on 4/8/2010 11:45:52 AM , Rating: 2
It has been made a little more clear ;)


RE: Might want to edit the lede, Shane
By daman5 on 4/8/2010 1:11:32 PM , Rating: 2
Agree some nations have the stance, as the old saying goes, "the best defense is a good offense"


RE: Might want to edit the lede, Shane
By LRonaldHubbs on 4/8/2010 1:36:23 PM , Rating: 3
The best defense is not a good offense, it's a good defense, so buy yourself a shield.


By daman5 on 4/8/2010 1:53:04 PM , Rating: 2
Ha! I didn't say it was sound strategy. Either is North Korea's of starving their own people! (whoops too much?)


I'd like...
By MrBlastman on 4/8/2010 12:14:47 PM , Rating: 2
To see them fit this on something like an Apache or a Blackhawk. Anything they can do to reduce the threat that manpads pose to our helocopters will make it a better place for all our men and women that are fighting.

Not to mention it will also reduce the workload of the pilot allowing the Apache's especially a little more leeway in their engagement parameters. Note I say a little and not a lot... A SA-19 has not only missiles but a darned set of 30 mm cannons too. Thankfully, most of the middle east does not possess these beasts in large numbers.




RE: I'd like...
By geddarkstorm on 4/8/2010 12:55:16 PM , Rating: 3
Yeah, a point defense system would do a lot of good for slower platforms like helicopters (as compared to aircraft). Though, it'd take some work tuning the kill zone, as even the concussive blast from a nearby rocket could endanger the craft. Still a sweet idea. I'm sure someone in the military is mulling this over.

Too bad it isn't like the demo picture there.


RE: I'd like...
By islseur on 4/8/2010 3:00:59 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Too bad it isn't like the demo picture there.

Watch Trophy in action!

Trophy - Active defence developed in Israel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62jzAupr044

I'm myself live in Israel and worked on part of this project. While I can't disclose info more than you can see at the video above. What I can say is that the system works and by now we have enough tanks fitted with this system and that it will save a LOT of lives. And this is a good thing.


RE: I'd like...
By NanoTube1 on 4/8/2010 5:32:38 PM , Rating: 2
If you actually participated in this project, I salute you.

Kol Hakavod from a fellow Israeli :)


RE: I'd like...
By eddieroolz on 4/8/2010 6:28:53 PM , Rating: 2
You worked on this!? Respect!


RE: I'd like...
By Lightsider01 on 4/8/2010 6:48:21 PM , Rating: 2
There's actually an invention noted by PopSci that deals with helicopter defense vs. RPG rounds. It solves the "bullet-with-a-bullet" problem by not using a bullet at all. You use a net. :D Pretty cool if it works:

http://www.popsci.com/node/4040


The next war...
By NanoTube1 on 4/8/2010 12:53:18 PM , Rating: 3
will be interesting. We (Israel) have a number of cutting edge, home grown defensive & offensive systems that are either already deployed or are on the verge of completing field tests.

Anti Missile counter measures: Trophy and Iron Fist.
Anti Rocket measures: Arrow (anti ballistic), David's Sling (medium rockets), Iron Dome (short range rockets). We also have Patriot anti aircraft / anti missile batteries from the US. Furthermore, The Israeli air-force also plans to deploy anti aircraft laser based systems in 2015.

On the offensive side, we have new & improved tank shells, an assortment of UCAVs, some new offensive missiles and a snake robot! :P




RE: The next war...
By geddarkstorm on 4/8/2010 12:56:26 PM , Rating: 3
Release the Kraken bot!


RE: The next war...
By Anoxanmore on 4/8/2010 2:14:25 PM , Rating: 2
I have Medussa's head ready to stone it to death. :P


RE: The next war...
By MrPoletski on 4/9/2010 10:01:25 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Anti Missile counter measures: Trophy and Iron Fist.


You could have deployed anti missile systems capable of stopping those rockets TWENTY FUCKING YEARS AGO.


RE: The next war...
By NanoTube1 on 4/9/2010 11:32:42 AM , Rating: 2
<sarcasm> Yeah right </sarcasm>


RE: The next war...
By ekv on 4/9/2010 11:35:18 PM , Rating: 2
What do you have in mind? please explain.


That would suck
By KIAman on 4/8/2010 5:20:45 PM , Rating: 2
to be the dude between the incoming missile and the trophy pellets.

I can see it now. Terrorists firing blank missiles and RPGs from all directions just to watch in fascination as the tank kills their escorts.




RE: That would suck
By NanoTube1 on 4/8/2010 5:50:03 PM , Rating: 2
During combat, you do not fire blanks on the enemy. You shoot to kill. It is way too dangerous to compromise your position without the benefit of destroying your target and trust me, the target is the tank. If you have seen a tank in real action you'd know why it's the target - it's a beast, a real monster and you want to kill the monsters quickly.

As for potentially injuring or even killing nearby friendlies, the Trophy developers claim that the risk is less than 1%. I do not know how they calculated it though. Anyway, most of the danger can be negated by just increasing a bit the distance between the infantry and the tanks.


RE: That would suck
By mmcdonalataocdotgov on 4/9/2010 11:27:38 AM , Rating: 2
You do fire decoys in combat. It is difficult for radar to track two objects as two objects when they fly in the same formation or on the same trajectory. It usually splits the difference, which would be enough to get some live rounds on the target now and then.

Anyway, until they mount this on the roof of the vehicle, there is still a weak spot given the proper trajectory, it seems. Not to mention land mines.


RE: That would suck
By NanoTube1 on 4/9/2010 11:35:44 AM , Rating: 2
I never heard of decoys being fired on a tank during combat before.
If you are aware of such a thing, please post.


RE: That would suck
By Lightsider01 on 4/8/2010 6:43:36 PM , Rating: 2
I'll also note that if you were the guy between the RPG and the Trophy pellets... well, the RPG would have probably hit you anyway, nevermind the Trophy system. :D Sounds like the difference between getting hit by a bullet, or by a bullet coming from one direction and a shotgun from the other. Either way, you're pretty screwed.


RE: That would suck
By MrBlastman on 4/9/2010 9:39:12 AM , Rating: 2
Interesting concept, thanks for the link. I wonder if he has progressed any further? The hardest thing for any system like this is the detection system than sees incoming objects, determines if they are a threat, then calculates their trajectory so it can co-ordinate with the interception system to remove the threat.


By FoxFour on 4/9/2010 12:29:56 AM , Rating: 2
I'm curious as to how effective this "shotgun" approach will be against a meter-long DU-alloy rod moving at a mile per second.

Or is it intended strictly for defense against lighter weapons -- RPGs, etc?




By namechamps on 4/9/2010 8:58:37 AM , Rating: 3
It won't.

Far too much kinetic energy to be turned aside by some pellets. Looks like this system is designed for missiles & rockets with explosive warhead not APDS cannon fire.

To avoid being destroyed by long rod penetrator there already is a counter measure. It is called shoot first.


32 years late to the party...
By zhopa on 4/8/2010 8:31:54 PM , Rating: 2
Serious progress for Israel... I guess...

Soviet Union had these systems in late 70s.




By Rob94hawk on 4/8/2010 11:17:23 PM , Rating: 2
As I said, the "nation of islam" was at war with itself before Isreal showed up. Now they just have a scapegoat.




By AliShawkat on 4/13/2010 8:54:10 AM , Rating: 1
Not surprised though since most of their weapons and technologies are provided by the united states. They gotta feed you guys all that propaganda crap to justify taking over land that isn't even recognized by the UN. Gold Stone is a Jew himself and the second he released his report, Israel accused his of bias srsly wtf. That's just fin hilarious.




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