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Auto Toyota Tests Plug-in Prius Hybrid
Brandon Hill (Blog) - July 26, 2007 10:53 AM
Print E-mail del.icio.us 107 comment(s) - last by Andrwken.. on Jul 29 at 11:23 PM

Toyota Plug-in HV  (Source: response.jp)
Toyota gets governmental approval for Japanese public road tests of plug-in Prius

The Toyota Prius is already the world's most recognizable hybrid as well as the most efficient hybrid available in the United States (2008 EPA rating of 48MPG city/45MPG highway). Toyota is looking to improve the efficiency of the Prius even further with the development of a plug-in version.

The plug-in Prius, known as the "Plug-in HV," has been certified for public road testing by the Japanese Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport. Toyota also has plans to test the Plug-in HV in Europe and in the U.S.

The Plug-in HV features a larger capacity nickel-metal hydride battery pack and the ability to be connected to a household power outlet for overnight charging. With a fully topped-off battery, Toyota says that its Plug-in HV can travel 13km (8 miles) before the internal combustion engine (ICE) has to take over.

For comparison, General Motors says that its Volt will travel 40 miles on battery power, while the plug-in hybrid version of its Saturn Vue Green Line will travel 10 miles on battery power alone.

Lithium-ion battery technology -- as used on the Volt and Vue Green Line -- would give the Prius even greater range. However, Toyota has decided against the battery technology citing safety concerns.

Toyota's trepidation is understandable given Sony's troubles with lithium-ion notebook battery packs. That being said, General Motors doesn't appear to share the same apprehension towards lithium-ion batteries and at least one company has already retrofitted existing Prius' with lithium-ion battery packs to boost combined (city/highway) fuel economy to 125MPG.

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125MPG
By cobalt42 on 7/26/2007 11:25:24 AM , Rating: 3
And in the first 8 miles, this Prius gets INIFINITE MPG! Seriously, why are we measuring the fuel economy of a car with plugin capabilities in miles per gallon? It's beyond meaningless, though it is admittedly excellent for marketing.




RE: 125MPG
By Rovemelt on 7/26/2007 11:50:23 AM , Rating: 4
Yea, MPG is starting to become meaningless for this class of cars. Maybe it's time to measure efficiency in terms of total energy/unit distance. Even grams CO2/mile starts to become meaningless because it all depends on how the electricity is generated (nat. gas/oil/nuclear/solar/wind). The energy contribution from gasoline can be calculated based on the chemical oxidation reaction.


RE: 125MPG
By marvdmartian on 7/26/2007 12:02:09 PM , Rating: 1
Agreed. If I put a sail on my car, and take advantage of wind power to push my vehicle, can I then claim I get 500mpg when the wind is in the right direction?? Or let's claim we can get 1000mpg if the car is only ever driven down hill!! ;)

I can see the board meeting at Toyota, though, when someone comes out and says, "Hey, I've found a way to use Lithium Ion batteries that will give our vehicle better mileage, at a lower cost than the NiMH batteries we're using now!!"

(Others in the meeting): "Really?? Tell us, how did you get those batteries so cheaply???"

(First guy again): "Oh, I got a helluva deal from Sony, on some slightly used batteries........." hehehe


RE: 125MPG
By ertomas on 7/26/2007 12:17:32 PM , Rating: 2
I joined DT just to laugh at your comment! LOL!

For everyone disscussing on wich battery tech is cheaper/most efficient, etc, as the article claims, Toyota's decision was based on SAFETY issues regarding Li Ion batteries.

If a laptop battery can burn like it does I don't want to think how would a car with a huge pack of batteries AND gasoline burn!


RE: 125MPG
By Mattz0r on 7/26/2007 1:21:13 PM , Rating: 2
Safety doesn't seem to be an issue at all for Tesla...

http://www.batterypoweronline.com/images/TeslaRoad...


RE: 125MPG
By masher2 (blog) on 7/26/2007 2:02:02 PM , Rating: 1
Tesla doesn't have the deep pockets Toyota does. They can afford legal exposure that much larger corporations must avoid.


RE: 125MPG
By Mattz0r on 7/26/2007 2:42:04 PM , Rating: 2
Which holds very true when trying not to damage your brand, but I think legal exposure for Tesla could be just as damaging. Since they're a new entrant into the automobile market, any negative legal exposure could pretty much end any and all sales of the Roadster. On top of that, if I remember correctly, there have been some prominent names placing reservations for the Roadster, and any future models. Imagine the backlash if Arnold, or George Clooney, or any of the other 330 supposed celebrities who have placed a reservation for the Roadster end up dying in a fiery Lithium Ion explosion.

http://www.fevj.org/energy-news/?page_id=52


RE: 125MPG
By masher2 (blog) on 7/26/2007 2:56:47 PM , Rating: 4
> "I think legal exposure for Tesla could be just as damaging..."

A large tort award against Tesla could easlily put the company out of business. But that's not the point. Without a willingness to work with Li-Ion batteries, Tesla has no product at all. Toyota, on the other hand, is the world's largest automaker, with or without these batteries.

Tesla's experiment gives them a business model and thus a company...and it likewise risks their entire company (albeit a very small risk). Were Toyota to attempt the same, their comparitive gain would be far smaller, but their legal exposure could easily run into the tens of billions of dollars.

Small companies can take risks-- legal or otherwise-- that larger companies cannot.


RE: 125MPG
By fic2 on 7/26/2007 4:14:54 PM , Rating: 3
Depends - if it is Paris Hilton or Lindsey Lohan or one of the other drunken stupid psuedo-lebrities Tesla should get a big reward for helping Darwinism on it's way.


RE: 125MPG
By Anonymous Freak on 7/26/2007 4:11:29 PM , Rating: 2
The other big question is what is the total effective consumption in various circumstances?

For example, my wife has a 5 mile each way daily commute to work. They have an EV charging station in her work's parking lot. She would get "infinite" MPG driving to and from work.

I drive between 25 and 100 miles a day for my job, with the only plug in opportunity overnight to begin 'fully charged' at the beginning of each day. Depending on my drives for the day, I would get anywhere from "very high" (let's see, 25 miles, minus the first 8, equals 17 miles on gas, at 50 MPG (my Prius average,) is 1/3 gallon; 25 miles divided by 1/3 gallons is about 75 MPG 'equivalent',) to barely over my current average of 50. (Again, same basic math, about 54 MPG for 100 miles.) And on a cross country drive, after the first couple hundred miles, it's effectively the same MPG. (Drove 1500 miles a couple years ago with no opportunity to recharge.)

Plus, you have to add in the 'cost' both monetary and environmentally, of recharging. I do pay an extra few bucks a month on my electric bill for 100% 'renewable' energy, so I wouldn't have any extra environmental cost of plugging in, but the electricity to recharge isn't free in money.


RE: 125MPG
By Comdrpopnfresh on 7/27/2007 4:36:48 PM , Rating: 2
8 miles is pitiful. a decade and a half ago we had fully electric cars which managed a range of 100 miles. Which is over 2 days worth of typical driving for an average American. It charged to full capacity in 8 hours, and 80% in 2-3

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1


RE: 125MPG
By encia on 7/29/2007 3:07:03 AM , Rating: 2
Toyota has the RAV4-EV and sold them to customers (unlike GM).


Please stop posting incorrect mpg ratings.
By 91TTZ on 7/26/2007 2:13:03 PM , Rating: 1
I keep seeing people posting outrageous mpg ratings like "125 mpg" when referring to hybrids. The car DOES NOT get 125 mile per gallon of fuel burned. They're posting a misleading number.

The car might get 80 miles on battery power alone and then another 45 miles on a gallon of gas. They add the figures up and claim that it got 125 miles on one gallon of gas. This is highly misleading because fuel had to be burned to charge the battery in the first place. In my example, the car actually got 45 mpg. Let's not forget that the battery is only electricity storage, and the electricity is produced by the car's engine or the power plant if it's plugged in, both of which need to burn fuel.

You cannot count the distance traveled on battery power alone as "free energy" as if no fuel was burned to produce that electricity.




By omnicronx on 7/26/2007 2:42:19 PM , Rating: 2
do you need a hug?


RE: Please stop posting incorrect mpg ratings.
By johnnyangelb on 7/26/2007 3:02:17 PM , Rating: 2
Don't forget the regenerative braking.


RE: Please stop posting incorrect mpg ratings.
By 91TTZ on 7/26/2007 3:09:11 PM , Rating: 2
Adding a larger capacity battery is not going to make the regenerative braking any more effective, since even the original battery has plenty of capacity to store the electricity generated by that.

Besides, the highest mpg ratings are for highway, where you aren't stopping and going all the time. I can see that helping the city mileage a little bit, but hardly the highway mpg.


RE: Please stop posting incorrect mpg ratings.
By masher2 (blog) on 7/26/2007 3:19:20 PM , Rating: 3
> "Besides, the highest mpg ratings are for highway, where you aren't stopping and going all the time."

Actually, many hybrids have higher city mileage than they do highway....primarily, because of the regenerative braking.


RE: Please stop posting incorrect mpg ratings.
By Kuroyama on 7/26/2007 7:10:19 PM , Rating: 2
That is a common misconception (apparently shared by the EPA tests). Consumer Reports, and most Prius owners such as myself, would report that highway mileage is actually better than city mileage. The regenerative braking just makes the improvement in fuel economy bigger in the city than on highway. For instance, the latest Consumer Reports figures
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/buyingleas...
have the Prius at 35mph city and 50mpg highway, while the next closest non-hybrid (the Yaris manual) gets 26mpg city and 42 highway.


RE: Please stop posting incorrect mpg ratings.
By masher2 (blog) on 7/26/2007 7:30:05 PM , Rating: 2
> "That is a common misconception "

Its not a misconception, but it is heavily influenced by driving patterns...much more so than highway mileage. To get the full benefits of regenerative braking, one does have to drive a bit differently, with longer, gentler braking periods.


RE: Please stop posting incorrect mpg ratings.
By Kuroyama on 7/26/2007 11:03:26 PM , Rating: 2
The braking is not why city mileage is better than highway, it is the moderate speed. If I drive 40mph on a lightly trafficked road with few stoplights then I can get 60+mpg on my Prius. Actually, with occasional short hills at ~40mph I can do even better than that because the engine runs at near optimal efficiency going up the hill, and then coasts back down.

The regenerative braking helps keep the mileage from being too bad, but the acceleration required to recover from a stop more than makes up for the stored energy. This should be obvious, because to recover the momentum the vehicle had before braking you will require at least as much energy as was gained by slowing the car down, or else you'd have a perpetual motion machine.


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