Print 61 comment(s) - last by Brandon Hill.. on Nov 12 at 2:51 PM

Toyota said that a new redesigned Prius wouldn't launch for more than a year

Toyota said it is considering making a significant change to the design of its wedge-shaped Prius.

According to the automaker, it hasn't chosen a new design for the Prius yet, but it is trying to determine whether to "evolve it," or "really evolve it." It is currently reviewing clay-model prototypes for the new Prius design.

"There's an undercurrent among most people that they're ready for a new Prius look," said Chris Hostetter, Toyota's vice president for strategic planning in the U.S. "Maybe our architecture has been a little bit similar for the last two generations."

The Prius, which was first launched in Japan in 1997 and the U.S. in 2000, had an exterior design that was altered from Toyota's Yaris sedan.

A second generation Prius was released in 2003, where it received the raked hood and windshield. From 2003 to 2004, Prius sales increased dramatically from 43,162 to 125,742.

The third-generation Prius pushed fuel efficiency (and sales) even further, while the Prius c was introduced with fuel economy ratings of 50 mpg combined.

Back in May of this year, the Prius family was named the third best-selling vehicle line in the world.

Toyota said that a new redesigned Prius wouldn't launch for more than a year.

Jonny Lieberman, senior features editor at Motor Trend, recently spoke with his sources at Toyota and shared a bit of secret info about the next Prius. Lieberman hinted that the next Prius will have a fuel economy rating of 60 mpg. This shouldn't be too hard to achieve assuming a lighter vehicle weight, more powerful electric motor, and a switch from NiMH to lithium-ion batteries.

Source: The Detroit News

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Not related... but...
By Cheesew1z69 on 11/9/2012 8:25:49 AM , Rating: 5
I am now seeing commercials for the new Ford Fusion Hybrid, that thing it hot! No thanks Toyota! ;)

RE: Not related... but...
By FITCamaro on 11/9/2012 8:30:13 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah the new Ford Fusion is sexy looking.

I wouldn't buy the hybrid though. The 2.0L Ecoboost would be fun however.

RE: Not related... but...
By Brandon Hill on 11/9/2012 9:16:01 AM , Rating: 2
No manual though with the 2.0 EcoBoost.

I'd probably pick the hybrid. $27k and 47mpg is damn impressive.

RE: Not related... but...
By FITCamaro on 11/9/2012 9:54:41 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah I didn't get that. Stupid to not offer that car in a manual with the 2.0L.

RE: Not related... but...
By Brandon Hill on 11/9/2012 10:47:42 AM , Rating: 3
But the 1.6T is available with a 6-speed stick, go figure.

RE: Not related... but...
By Samus on 11/10/2012 2:46:04 AM , Rating: 1
The 1.6T with a custom datalog ECU tune on 93 octane fuel would safely produce over 200WHP and 250LBS. The knock sensor is very sensitive and the injectors only work at 70% capacity at its rated peak 178hp. For a 3300lb car costing under $26k, I think this is a more balanced option than the 2.0T which would give slightly more power while scaling with slightly worse fuel economy and too much torque for FWD.

I've always felt balance perfection for NA engines is around 500cc/cylinder, while boosted engines is around 400cc/cylinder. I love the fun of a big cubic V8, but honestly anything more than 250ft/lb on FWD can ruin drivability. My Focus ST is ridiculous and will be getting a torsion LSD as soon as Ford Racing has them in stock. I still feel my SVT Focus and 7MGTE Supra are the most refined driving projects I ever built and both have pretty small engines while still making weight\power ratio <5:1

RE: Not related... but...
By Mint on 11/9/2012 12:06:00 PM , Rating: 2
If you like optional equipment, the plugin is probably going to be an even better choice than the regular hybrid.

With the CMax, the Energi ($32950-$3750) is only $1k above the similarly equipped Hybrid SEL model ($28200). Despite the 47mpg of the hybrid,
A) that'll pay itself back in under 2 years, and everything after that is gravy
B) the plugin will be worth a lot more on resale
C) the engine of the plugin will have only been used for maybe half of the miles, reducing wear.
Yes, that's after the tax credit, but even without that, it's still worth it in the long run. In fact, I bet the lease rates of the plugin will eventually be lower than that of the SEL hybrid, reflecting the above.

I hope the Fusion Energi has a similarly small pricing delta. This is something I've been expecting because it just makes sense. If you have a hybrid, you only need to add a charger and bigger battery to make it a plugin. It shouldn't cost $10k more.

RE: Not related... but...
By Brandon Hill on 11/9/2012 1:05:42 PM , Rating: 2
While I like the styling of the Fusion Hybrid/Energi and think it's a great vehicle, it wouldn't be on my shopping list (even though I think it's the best Fusion currently available). The Fusion Hybrid only has 12 cu ft of trunk space. That would be a deal killer for me.

I do have my eye on the C-Max Hybrid though. It's a much more versatile vehicle.

RE: Not related... but...
By Mint on 11/10/2012 4:46:58 PM , Rating: 2
Ah, I thought you were saying that you'd pick the Fusion Hybrid above. It would be neat if a company figured out a way to remove a chunk of battery for long hauls, just like minivans can take out a row of seats.

I suspect this will become less of a problem down the road. We can do 4L/kWh for batteries, so that's only 1 cubic foot for the 7kWh in the Energi. In time, we'd probably only need 1 more cu ft for electronics/wiring/cooling/protection. It took a couple years for the CE industry to figure out how to cram so much into under 1" thick notebooks or 8mm thick smartphones.

Still, as I mentioned above, the C-Max Energi costs very little over an equally equipped C-Max Hybrid, and will still have 20 cu ft of trunk space. Unless you want a barebones CMax, give the Energi some serious consideration, and don't forget that it'll have a higher resale value.

RE: Not related... but...
By Brandon Hill on 11/12/2012 2:51:47 PM , Rating: 2
If I HAD to choose a Fusion, it would be the hybrid. But I think the C-Max is the better vehicle for me as I have a 6-month old and all his crap to lug around ;)

RE: Not related... but...
By g35fan on 11/9/12, Rating: 0
RE: Not related... but...
By Cheesew1z69 on 11/9/2012 12:08:29 PM , Rating: 1
And your point? Oh right, you don't have one.

RE: Not related... but...
By Pirks on 11/9/12, Rating: 0
RE: Not related... but...
By Cheesew1z69 on 11/9/2012 12:51:06 PM , Rating: 1
I know that you moron. What's YOUR point? Nothing as usual?

Fucking idiot...

RE: Not related... but...
By Pirks on 11/9/12, Rating: -1
RE: Not related... but...
By Cheesew1z69 on 11/9/2012 1:47:08 PM , Rating: 1
You can't even put a proper sentence together, or spell correctly and you tell me that I need to learn English.


You are nothing but a loser troll. I am not going to continue feeding you.

I feel sorry for the people in your life that have to deal with such a moron.

RE: Not related... but...
By Pirks on 11/9/12, Rating: 0
RE: Not related... but...
By 91TTZ on 11/9/2012 6:23:42 PM , Rating: 2
English is a proper noun and needs to be capitalized.

RE: Not related... but...
By foolsgambit11 on 11/10/2012 6:32:51 PM , Rating: 2
Unless he was telling him to learn how to impart spin to the cue ball in billiards....

RE: Not related... but...
By Ringold on 11/10/2012 5:45:35 AM , Rating: 2
Ha, I <3 people that use "prol" in everyday conversation.

RE: Not related... but...
By retrospooty on 11/9/2012 12:59:30 PM , Rating: 3
I always heard it was a Ferkin' Old Rebuilt Dodge ;)

But seriously, Ford has come a long way since the quality issues of the past. They make some good cars now. I cant believe I am even saying that, but its true.

RE: Not related... but...
By kwrzesien on 11/9/2012 3:00:27 PM , Rating: 2
I've always heard Fixed Or Repaired Daily. :)

Had two Expeditions - they were monsters and fun to drive. Then I shrank to a A4 1.8T Quattro Sport.

RE: Not related... but...
By Cheesew1z69 on 11/9/2012 3:17:05 PM , Rating: 2
My mother has an expedition, it's a beast.

RE: Not related... but...
By Jeffk464 on 11/9/12, Rating: 0
RE: Not related... but...
By jimbojimbo on 11/9/2012 4:33:22 PM , Rating: 2
Ha ha, that was funny!!... in 1988. It's not the same any more.

RE: Not related... but...
By Nutzo on 11/9/2012 11:03:48 AM , Rating: 2
The Fusion Hybrid has great specs, and I was seriously considering one. However it has one fatal flaw, No spare tire. instead you get get a can of flat fix. About 15% of new cars are now comming without spares.

I've had too many flats over the years to not at least have a temp spare. My current 10 year old Camry came with a full size spare, and I wish I could still buy a car with a full size spare (or at least room for one) Don't care about the <1 mpg diference the weight would make.

RE: Not related... but...
By Dr of crap on 11/9/2012 11:22:24 AM , Rating: 2
So you can't go buy a spare?
And that is your ONLY reason to not get he Ford?

A majority of new cars will go this route.

I know buying spares will be a big for these no spare cars, just add it onto the price!

RE: Not related... but...
By Cheesew1z69 on 11/9/2012 11:33:45 AM , Rating: 2
Fatal? Having a spare isn't "fatal".

RE: Not related... but...
By Cheesew1z69 on 11/9/2012 11:35:13 AM , Rating: 2
Not having*

At least I don't think so. That's what AAA is for.

RE: Not related... but...
By Mint on 11/9/2012 12:13:27 PM , Rating: 2
That's a pretty good point. Does it make sense for every car to have a spare - losing trunk space space and adding to weight over hundreds of thousands of miles - when it's much more economically efficient to rely on fix-a-flat or, worst case, the towing industry? Cellphones have greatly reduced the possibility of being stranded with no options.

RE: Not related... but...
By Cheesew1z69 on 11/9/2012 12:53:12 PM , Rating: 2
Cellphones have greatly reduced the possibility of being stranded with no options
That they have, just a call away for help if needed.

RE: Not related... but...
By jimbojimbo on 11/9/2012 4:35:17 PM , Rating: 2
True but I'd still want a spare. I can change a flat tire out in probably 15-20minutes and be on my way. How long would you have to wait for a tow truck to show up?

RE: Not related... but...
By Spuke on 11/9/2012 5:54:19 PM , Rating: 2
45 mins seems typical in CA. When I lived back east it was much faster.

RE: Not related... but...
By Mint on 11/11/2012 9:26:50 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah, but think about it. Suppose you get a flat at the unusual rate of once per year, and one in every two flats can be fixed by a can of fix-a-flat, while the others requiring a 1 hour wait for a tow.

That's means you're lugging around a flat all the time - carrying extra weight and losing cargo capacity - to save a mere 20 minutes on average per year.

That's not a tradeoff I'd make. I do have a spare in my car, but I don't have an option of the same car with more trunk space instead, or using that space it for batteries, etc.

RE: Not related... but...
By Jeffk464 on 11/9/2012 7:24:47 PM , Rating: 2
You can always carry the plug type repair kit, its a piece of cake to use. Of course I don't know if I would trust the repair for the long run.

RE: Not related... but...
By titanmiller on 11/10/2012 12:44:55 AM , Rating: 2
I've been driving on a plug for over 10,000 miles. It is a permanent fix as far as I know.

RE: Not related... but...
By MadMan007 on 11/10/2012 11:28:00 AM , Rating: 2
In addition to what others have said, there's the inconvenience of relying on the towing industry instead of even a temporary spare. If I call a tow truck, then what? Go straight to a tire place right then to get it repaired or replaced, possibly wasting a whole half a day or more when it's not planned. With a temp spare, I can change it, go on my way, and then get it replaced on my schedule.

DailyTech; Now available in Engrish!
By EasyC on 11/9/12, Rating: 0
RE: DailyTech; Now available in Engrish!
By EasyC on 11/9/2012 9:57:51 AM , Rating: 2
LOL I got downrated for posting the original title of the article....

This site is ridiculous.

RE: DailyTech; Now available in Engrish!
By Crazyeyeskillah on 11/9/2012 10:56:00 AM , Rating: 2
"I had sexual intercourse with your significant other"

By Jeffk464 on 11/9/2012 7:26:32 PM , Rating: 1
Ha the joke is on you, I've seen her. She's 300 lbs, has bad teeth, and bad body odor.

By 91TTZ on 11/9/2012 6:22:11 PM , Rating: 2
Installing a more powerful electric motor is more likely to decrease fuel economy. The article didn't say "more efficient" electric motor.

Also, giving it increased battery capacity shouldn't increase the MPG that the car gets on gasoline.

By Philippine Mango on 11/10/2012 6:57:57 PM , Rating: 2
A more powerful electric motor would allow the car to drive more often with the engine off. They also could be asking for more powerful batteries and electric motor to boost its hp ratings. While driving faster and harder won't be good for fuel economy, if you're easy on the car, then the larger electric motor will mean a more efficient electric motor as well. I'm not really sure how Toyota expects to achieve 60mpg but I guess that number is possible for city fuel economy instead of highway fuel economy.

New Shape
By Proposer88 on 11/9/2012 9:23:15 AM , Rating: 2
Toyota, just make the new Prius in the shape of a Lamborghini, everybody will like it

By rvd2008 on 11/9/2012 2:56:57 PM , Rating: 2
assuming a lighter vehicle weight, more powerful electric motor, and a switch from NiMH to lithium-ion batteries."
There you have listed 3 reasons why it is actually DIFFICULT to achieve. We are not talking small economy either. Going from 50 to 60 MPG is 20% boost in efficiency on already significantly optimized car. Keep in mind cost.

Carbon isotopes.
By drycrust3 on 11/11/2012 2:43:08 PM , Rating: 2
Lieberman hinted that the next Prius will have a fuel economy rating of 60 mpg.

As I understand it, Carbon 13 and 14 form about 10% of petrol, and these are more difficult to burn than Carbon 12, and unburnt fuel is about 10% of a car's exhaust, so my guess is a lot of that unburnt fuel is C13 and C14. It will be interesting to see if they can improve on this.

By mgilbert on 11/9/2012 10:45:09 AM , Rating: 1
Excellent - now, if they could just figure out how to make one that isn't so damned ugly. It's right up there with the Pontiac Aztec - the ugliest car of all time!

By Richard875yh5 on 11/9/12, Rating: -1
RE: Toyota
By skeansmith on 11/9/2012 9:25:47 AM , Rating: 3
You can believe it. I am getting 57mpg with a gen3 model.

RE: Toyota
By Sta5h on 11/9/12, Rating: -1
RE: Toyota
By Cheesew1z69 on 11/9/2012 10:10:40 AM , Rating: 2
There's a VW golf turbo diesel on the market that will do 88mpg, so really, a hybrid that does 60mpg? Colour me seriously unimpressed.
Not in the US market there isn't... not that I am aware of.

RE: Toyota
By yomamafor1 on 11/9/2012 10:29:32 AM , Rating: 3
There's a VW golf turbo diesel on the market that will do 88mpg

First of all, the 88mpg figure was obtained using imperial gallon. In the US, it would've gotten 73mpg. This is not to mention VW Golf Bluemotion is not available for purchase in the US for emission and lack of market.

Secondly, diesel cars are still better suited running at a constant speed, while hybrids are much better suited running in a congested city (I would know. The Lexus CT200h I drove averaged 40mpg in a congested Asia city). It really depends on the environment the car would be driven in.

RE: Toyota
By Mint on 11/9/2012 11:08:28 AM , Rating: 4
Quoting only highway figures is dumb.

FYI, VW itself is getting higher efficiency from hybrids. The 2013 Jetta hybrid gets 45mpg combined (45/45), while the TDI gets 34mpg combined (30/42). These are EPA estimates, and the EPA has a much more realistic test cycle than Europe.

RE: Toyota
By Pirks on 11/9/12, Rating: 0
RE: Toyota
By relztes on 11/9/2012 3:22:32 PM , Rating: 2
British mpg is not the same as American mpg. The best rating I could find was 83 highway mpg (British) for a Golf 1.6 TDI 105PS BlueMotion linked here:

But, an imperial gallon is 1.20 US gallons, and diesel is about 12% denser than gasoline (which is why it's usually more expensive). So 83 miles per imperial gallon of diesel is equivalent to 62 mpg gasoline before accounting for drive cycle differences (EPA vs UK). The EPA cycle got a lot tougher several years ago, so I'm guessing its rating would be lower.

There's no benefit to a hybrid in constant speed highway driving except if the engine is a little smaller and more efficient due to the lower horsepower requirement for acceleration. So a small car with a small engine should come very close to a hybrid on the highway. City driving is the difference.

RE: Toyota
By cknobman on 11/9/2012 9:28:58 AM , Rating: 1
Yeah lets not trust a company that has survived on their own and over the last half century built up a brand and reputation to be one of the premier auto makers in the world.

But oh lets trust General Motors who had to be bailed out by our government with taxpayer money because the company built a reputation for saturating markets with diluted brands, cheap build quality, horrible reliability, horrendous resale value, and (outside of the Volt) who build hybrids that get worse gas mileage than competitors regular gasoline models!!!!!!!!!!!!

RE: Toyota
By Ammohunt on 11/9/2012 11:54:33 AM , Rating: 2
285k miles on my 2004 Prius with about $1500 of non-normal maintainace costs does more then generate trust for me...i used to be a huge GM fan.

RE: Toyota
By Pirks on 11/9/2012 12:45:04 PM , Rating: 2
100k on my 2000 toyota echo without a single mechanic visit to repair anything pretty much warranties I'm a lifetime toyota customer now. unless their quality goes down and my next toyota will start breaking down on me before turning 20 years old (that's how old toyotas get before they start to break down)

granted, I've been doing regular maintenance like wheel alignment every three years, regular oil changes, and I don't drive it hard because i'm smart hence I never rush from one traffic light to another :P but still color me impressed with toyota's reliability

driven it a few years in vancouver, a few years in toronto and now a few years in bellevue, so mostly not harsh climate and not much exposure to salt (which helps with reliability, I understand that)

RE: Toyota
By ChronoReverse on 11/9/2012 7:44:04 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, I'm not a long-time driver yet but 70k on my Matrix and not a single issue. I honestly don't think I'll have any problems for another 8 years too.

RE: Toyota
By Pirks on 11/9/2012 8:04:53 PM , Rating: 2
my bro has 160k on his matrix he got brand new 8 years ago and indeed nothing happened to him so far besides oil changes and brake pad changes. like I said when jd power keeps bestowing toyota with best in class reliability awards, this is not done for looks or for bribes, looks like these japs truly deserve it. at least from my extended family experience and from my buddies experience (most buddies own camrys of various years, including the one that's 20 year old and STILL doesn't seem to go to retirement anytime soon :P)

RE: Toyota
By Brandon Hill on 11/9/2012 9:33:55 AM , Rating: 3
What? Do you have any proof of this nonsense you're spouting? The current generation lives up to its EPA ratings in the real world.

"I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen

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