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Toyota Prius

Ford Fusion Hybrid

Ford F-150
The new hybrid system will be aimed at RWD, full-size trucks and SUVs

Ford and Toyota are both quite capable of producing class-leading hybrid cars. Ford is doing well with its [midsize] segment-leading Fusion Hybrid, and we all know how popular Toyota's Prius is with buyers around the world.

However, Ford and Toyota today announced that they would join forces to develop a new hybrid system that will be used in much larger vehicles: rear-wheel drive full-size pickups and SUVs. Both companies are a little light on details on the moment, but the pair has signed a memorandum of understanding (MOU) on the development of the hybrid system, while a formal agreement will be drawn up in 2012. 

“This agreement brings together the capability of two global leaders in hybrid vehicles and hybrid technology to develop a better solution more quickly and affordably for our customers,” said Derrick Kuzak, Ford group vice president, Global Product Development. “Ford achieved a breakthrough with the Ford Fusion Hybrid, and we intend to do this again for a new group of truck and SUV buyers – customers we know very well.”

"We expect to create exciting technologies that benefit society with Ford – and we can do so through the experience the two companies have in hybrid technology,” added Takeshi Uchiyamada, Toyota executive vice president of Research and Development. 

The new hybrid system will go a long way towards further improving the fuel economy of the vehicles that continually drag down the CAFE for automakers. Whereas a Prius is rated at 50mpg combined and the Fusion Hybrid is rated at 39mpg combined, the most fuel efficient F-150 (one of the best selling trucks in America) is rated at 18mpg combined in its most efficient V6-engine trim.

In other Ford/Toyota news, the unlikely pair also announced that they will be teaming up to provide design standards for the next generation infotainment/telematics system with cloud-based services for automobiles. 

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Compare and contrast
By dark matter on 8/22/2011 11:44:01 AM , Rating: 5
With the idiots suing each other in the mobile arena.




RE: Compare and contrast
By Samus on 8/22/2011 12:06:17 PM , Rating: 2
Totally. Here are two companies that both have something the other wants. It's interesting how joint-technology agreements are so common in the auto industry, where as in the tech industry, everybody cries about someone copying their ideas. That happens in every industry. Ford and Mazda have had an ongoing joint-technology agreement for three decades.

Toyota is obviously looking to join the Sync bandwagon and learn some more truck stuff, Ford is obviously interested in passing up spending billions [more] on hybrid R&D. Both companies need hybrid drive-trains that are heavy duty for trucks and SUV's, since currently, all SUV's that are hybrid, are mild-hybrid at best.


RE: Compare and contrast
By Sazabi19 on 8/22/2011 1:17:43 PM , Rating: 2
Ya I have to say this is good. Anything that will help them help us save money is good with me.


RE: Compare and contrast
By quiksilvr on 8/22/11, Rating: -1
RE: Compare and contrast
By Hyperion1400 on 8/22/11, Rating: -1
RE: Compare and contrast
By tastyratz on 8/22/2011 2:09:30 PM , Rating: 3
OR consider this:
American vehicles are absurdly undersold compared to "*** crap" here. The people who still think in that mentality have a general upcoming expiration date. People don't buy import trucks because they are EXPENSIVE in comparison for a work truck.

A titan/tundra is substantially more money in comparison to your run of the mill f150. The appeal is more for the homeowner/parent/or "minutely equipped" owner.

Not like buying American branding will get you a vehicle that is more American these days anyways. My percetion is that more "domestics" are assembled overseas than Japanese brands.


RE: Compare and contrast
By Reclaimer77 on 8/22/2011 4:40:17 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
People buy trucks in the US mostly for conspicuous consumption, so they want big V8s and chrome and HORSEPOWER(!) and most importantly a name. Regardless of how good a truck Toyota makes (The Tundra and Tacoma are far superior to every American made truck in their category), people still wont but them because they are "Jap crap."


Oh give us a break. This isn't the 1980's anymore. "Jap crap" year after year sells higher in the U.S than domestics. Only in trucks do domestics win, and that is because the Ford F series is cheap. Tundra's are great, but they are almost obscenely expensive for a truck compared to the competition. Trucks are a utility market, not luxury. Look at the Escalade EXT, the Cadillac truck. They don't sell well at all, and have all the horsepower a man could want. People simply don't want to drop a ton of money on something that, at the end of the day, is still a truck.

Just stop with the stereotypes.


RE: Compare and contrast
By Hyperion1400 on 8/24/2011 5:32:18 PM , Rating: 2
Please note the quote marks (the both of you), and enjoy your reading comprehension fail.

"Jap Crap" was not my own words. Rather, I was using them to cite the general "consensus" of the US (or at least here in the south anyway) truck "community." (yet another example of what quotation marks can be used for ;)

Where I live, trucks are a status symbol, a means of conspicuous consumption. VERY few people around here buy them for utilitarian purposes. They don't care about cost or reliability or anything important really; they just care about whether or not it says Ford, Chevy, or Dodge on the body.

Oh, and the Tacoma is 2 grand cheaper than a Ranger. :P

And the Tundra is hardly what I would call "obscenely" expensive since it only costs around $1500 more than a base F150. And lets face it, Ford trucks aren't exactly famed for their reliability, which leaves Dodge(who had an entire TV series devoted to it's quality and reliability issues) or a Chevy Silvarado, which is probably the only decent competitor to the Tundra, but you get less HP and Torque in return and you are stuck with a 4-speed transmission instead of the 5-speed you get with the Tundra. So, it's not like you get f*&% all for 2k extra with the Tundra, you even get a better interior!


RE: Compare and contrast
By Natch on 8/22/2011 2:12:02 PM , Rating: 3
And yet, Ford currently has the best fuel economy in a full size 1/2 ton truck (with their V-6 Ecoboost engine), compared to (I'm pretty sure) the WORST fuel mileage in a full size 1/2 ton from Toyota, AND a fairly decent hybrid drivetrain in their car....so I'd say that Toyota needs Ford more than the other way around.


RE: Compare and contrast
By lagomorpha on 8/22/2011 6:22:31 PM , Rating: 1
Well Ford did have a lot of karma to make up for after so many years of that godawful 5.4L Triton V8.


RE: Compare and contrast
By Myrandex on 8/22/2011 7:55:22 PM , Rating: 2
Please tell me what is so bad about that engine, as it is the engine in my vehicle. If I need to look out for something I'd love to hear about it, but it has been a champ so far.

Jason


RE: Compare and contrast
By Spuke on 8/22/2011 9:13:52 PM , Rating: 2
There's nothing wrong with that engine at all. It's a workhorse and one of Ford's best engines by far.


RE: Compare and contrast
By Samus on 8/23/2011 2:52:25 AM , Rating: 2
The 5.4 block has been used in supercars with 600HP and record reliability. The 6.0 engine had its share of problems, but they're all pretty well understood (injector and fuel system issues.) Ford makes great engines, easily as good as Toyota.

Too many people on here watch Top Gear or buy into the propaganda machine and still think the Japanese make the most reliable and the Germans make the most refined vehicles. Japanese vehicles are ridiculous and ugly and German vehicles are overachievingly cold and boring. If you go to Japan, most people who can afford it drive German vehicles, and if you go to Germany/Austria/etc, most people drive Japanese.

This is a geographical coincidence. There is no reason us being in America should we buy non-American based on the concern of reliability. That is ridiculous. And statistically untrue. Ford trucks are consistantly more reliable than Toyota trucks. The Ford Ranger is cheaper and has better owner loyalty than the Tacoma, and The F150 has somewhere in the order of a fifth the number of recalls, TSB's and consumer complains that the state-side Tundra has.

So keep talking up the Hilux. Too bad you can't get one here, and are a fool for thinking a Tundra has anything in common with one.

Toyota has ZERO diesel options in the USA. Ford and GM have over a dozen models with a variety of diesels.


RE: Compare and contrast
By lagomorpha on 8/24/2011 7:49:36 AM , Rating: 2
"The F150 has somewhere in the order of a fifth the number of recalls"

You have to keep in mind, the number of recalls doesn't demonstrate the number of bugs in a product, it demonstrates the company's willingness to admit to and FIX those bugs. Toyota has more recalls to fix problems, Ford well... remember the Pinto case?

"We have this exploding gas tank problem..."
"Go on..."
"Well we really should do a recall but according to the numbers a recall would cost $XXXXXXXXXX but the lawsuits from estimated fatalities would only cost $XXXXXXXX."


RE: Compare and contrast
By Samus on 8/26/2011 2:43:04 AM , Rating: 2
You're seriously bringing up a industry flaw from a vehicle 40 years ago? Try thinking current, like how Toyota knew about faulty pedal designs, initially tried to pass it off as 'defective floor mats' then finally, over a year after the initial deadly accident and consumer complains of unwanted acceleration, they finally recalled the vehicles. There are leaked internal memo's from Toyota that indicate Japan was aware of the flaws are early as 2006.

So yes, this sounds like a company that is absolutely ready to stand by their product and fix its flaws. Right...

Meanwhile, Ford addresses consumer complaints with TSB's and almost all are covered under warranty. Remember, recalls are usually only related to safety. Toyota has more recalls in virtually every product segment, especially light trucks, which loosly means the vehicles are initially LESS SAFE.

A quick Google search for 2003 Tundra Recall shows over 111,000 Tundra's have been recalled for frame corrosion, 400,000 have been recalled for defective drivers seat rails, and 51,000 have been recalled for drive shaft failure. There are recalls for engine fires from defective a wiring harness, faulty o2 sensors, cracked exhaust manifolds that leak fumes, and expensive consumer complaint recalls that required class-action lawsuits involving faulty MAF sensors. There is even a concentrated 11,000 truck recall of faulty ABS units that causes the brakes to not function. These are all problems that could result in a fatal accident.

A quick Google search for 2003 Ford F150 Recall shows only two recalls. 1.1 million vehicles are involved in a passenger airbag switch recall (there is a key to disable the airbag) that doesn't actually turn the airbag off, and another about corroding gas tank straps, which is a recall concentrated on salt-belt states and only covers 97-2003 trucks (although I'm sure the newer trucks will eventually have problems unless they changed the strap design or material.)

Here's the real funny part. The airbag switch that is being recalled actually involves replacing the airbag control module, not the switch. The control module is made by Denso, a division of Toyota. The really interesting thing about this is it's the same control module used in many Toyota's, but not the Tundra or Tacoma (the only two Toyota vehicles with passenger airbag disengagement) but no Toyota vehicles are being recalled.

I'm not a Ford or Toyota fan boy, but I am tired of people talking smack about American auto manufactures when statistically the German and Japanese vehicles have more problems. People must be in denial about their purchases or something. Or the American auto industry is just an easy target. I don't know. Either way, it's not fair. Toyota makes sub-par, and quire boring vehicles. Like most Japanese manufactures (excluding Mazda and to some extent Nissan) they have no passion for driving and don't make fun cars. They are boring. Toyota hasn't made a sports car in 10 years, and the sad thing is, when they did, they did it well.


RE: Compare and contrast
By texbrazos on 8/24/2011 1:36:56 PM , Rating: 2
I believe the Chevy Silverado Hybrid gets 20/23. Anyway, that would make it the leader. The Chevy Tahoe Hybrid also gets the same milage so that would put it in the lead for full sized Hybrid SUV's. These have been in production for several years now.


RE: Compare and contrast
By Samus on 8/23/2011 2:36:00 AM , Rating: 2
quiksilvr, Toyota trucks have nothing on Ford, or GM, trucks. Just because Topgear loves the Hilux, doesn't mean its the best truck. It has a good engine, and...thats it. The frame isn't boxed, so it needs to be evenly loaded. They are prone to rear-end problems when towing, the transfer cases (actually made by Suzuki in the 80's and 90's) are prone to constant chain failure from stretching and the ride quality is quite awful.

Frame demonstration:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRfE_XAk2mE


RE: Compare and contrast
By Reclaimer77 on 8/22/11, Rating: 0
hmm
By Spikesoldier on 8/22/2011 11:55:52 AM , Rating: 2
pretty good conceptual idea. use the electric motor where 400 cubic inches isnt very really being used. im sure big rotors etc will make the re-gen system a little more efficient.

we'll see.




RE: hmm
By Spuke on 8/22/2011 12:57:23 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
use the electric motor where 400 cubic inches isnt very really being used
Where did you get that number from?


RE: hmm
By Solandri on 8/22/2011 2:01:46 PM , Rating: 2
It's a reference to the big 6.7 liter V8 diesel you can get on these trucks. 6.7 L = 409 cubic inches.


RE: hmm
By Spuke on 8/22/2011 5:26:58 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, I doubt the hybrid tech would be for those. That would make that engine retarded expensive (already expensive as is). BUT I wouldn't mind a hybrid electric diesel engine. My take is they'll add it to the gasoline engines since those sell more than the diesels.


Ford/Toyota
By Richard875yh5 on 8/23/2011 8:25:59 AM , Rating: 2
Ford should not join force with Toyota for such a project. Ford brags a lot about it's technology savvy and this will tarnish Ford's image.




RE: Ford/Toyota
By lagomorpha on 8/24/2011 7:54:08 AM , Rating: 2
On the other hand the Prius is the best selling hybrid by a fairly substantial margin. If Ford wants to convert some of the Prius crowd they may want to demonstrate that their products aren't that different.


Ford
By knutjb on 8/23/2011 9:46:05 AM , Rating: 2
Ford has been tinkering with a hybrid system for trucks for years. 2001-2 I read an article where Ford was playing with a hydraulic based mechanical system to help with red light acceleration.

Today if you are using a lot of electrics that would be the more cost effective choice given Ford is standardizing their vehicle platforms to enable a common battery.

Ford uses a tweaked version of Toyota's hybrid system so it makes sense for both to work together to meet the new mpg demands Though it will cost the consumer $$$ up front and the payback over the life of vehicle is unknown.




dumb idea
By Argon18 on 8/22/11, Rating: -1
RE: dumb idea
By ezorb on 8/22/2011 12:51:42 PM , Rating: 5
actually your the idiot, first your quoting imperial gallons for your MPG so that's not and apples to apples deal here. you need to drop the 37mpg by about 20%, also the US MPG rating system is diffident and more realistic than the European system. Also no chance the towing or bed capacity of that VW truck comes close to that of an bottom of the line f-150. the WV Amarok is more similar to a Toyota HiLux/Tacoma which are much smaller than and F-150 or Tundra. A Toyota or ford will outlast a VW probably by 2 or 3 times. WV is the class leader in Unreliable vehicles, check the rankings http://www.autoblog.com/2011/03/17/jd-powers-2011-...


RE: dumb idea
By wyrmslair on 8/22/2011 1:30:06 PM , Rating: 2
Um, actually you're the bigger idiot. He's right in concept even if he's got some statistical errors in his argument. A small diesel in a 1/2 ton pickup should be capable of around 25mpg or better around town with current technology. How do I know this? We've got a 1997 Dodge with the old 5.9 Cummins that regularly gets 20+ mpg around town while carrying a 100 gallon tank that nets it's weight at 150% of the average 1/2 ton (7500 lbs.). Mind you, that's an old truck with over 330K miles and "in town" is the greater Los Angeles area, not the boonies where you can cruise all day at 45 mph without having to slow down. I love the new Ford sixes but I'm really bitter that no one has spent any R&D money on a small six or big four diesel for the american small truck and SUV market. Let's face it, the Exploder with a 200hp/300lb-ft diesel that got 30mpg around town would be a great buy even with the higher fuel prices. Compare that with the 18mpg we're so happy with (and I am impressed to a point) and there's still a huge difference that we're missing out on. And, no, diesel is not hard to find anywhere on the western side of the country especially with smart phones.


RE: dumb idea
By Spuke on 8/22/2011 5:30:32 PM , Rating: 2
Most everyone was coming out with a 1/2 ton diesel engine until the market collapsed. I think GM was supposed to be first out the gate with a 4.5L.


RE: dumb idea
By Samus on 8/23/2011 4:27:58 AM , Rating: 2
So get an F-series with a diesel. It'll still be cheaper, more capable, more efficient, and more reliable than anything comparable VW is willing to sell state-side.

The problem with the Germans is the same as the problem with the Japanese: they keep all the good stuff for themselves.

But hey, we're builty of that too. We don't sell the Mustang outside of North America, and its easily the best muscle car in the world for the price :)


RE: dumb idea
By ezorb on 8/23/2011 2:55:23 PM , Rating: 1
I don't see how you addressed any of my arguments??

My argument is that comparing mileage needs to be done correctly, and that these two trucks are not comparable in the first place, and that VWs are crappy and unreliable so who cares how good the mileage of a shitty truck is, if its broken and in the shop.

Im not saying that Diesel is bad. In fact i quite like Diesel, i drove a 2.5L Ford Diesel in Europe which was a great engine, I was so impressed and baffled that ford didn't bring it over.


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