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Toshiba HD-A35
Toshiba slashes prices on HD DVD players and launches campaign targeting SD DVD owners

Seemingly resolute in its cause, Toshiba announced today new pricing and marketing strategies for HD DVD.

Realizing that price is one of the biggest barriers in mass consumer adoption of a new technology, Toshiba has dropped its suggested retail pricing across the entire third-generation HD DVD player line. Effective starting January 13, the price of the entry-model HD-A3 will be $149.99, the HD-A30, with 1080p output, $199.99, and the high-end HD-A35, $299.99.

New, lower pricing on Toshiba HD DVD hardware appeared over the weekend when online retailers listed the HD-A3 as low as $129.99 and the HD-A30 at $179.98.

"While price is one of the consideration elements for the early adopter, it is a deal-breaker for the mainstream consumer," said Yoshi Uchiyama, Group Vice President Digital A/V Group. "Consumer sales this holiday season have proven that the consumer awareness of the HD DVD format has been elevated and pricing is the most critical determinant in consumers' purchase decision of the next generation HD DVD technology. The value HD DVD provides to the consumer simply cannot be ignored."

Last year, special holiday sales of entry level HD DVD players had consumers taking home new hardware for under $100. Thanks to priced-to-move sales on HD DVD hardware, Toshiba moved 90,000 players during a weekend sales rush.

The second point to Toshiba’s two-pronged attacked is its new marketing campaign aimed to inform consumers on the DVD-upscaling capabilities of its HD DVD players. All of Toshiba’s HD DVD players will upscale a standard-definition DVD to high-definition resolutions.

"HD DVD is the best way to watch movies in high definition," said Jodi Sally, Vice President of Marketing, Toshiba's Digital A/V Group. "Our HD DVD players not only play back approximately 800 HD DVD titles available worldwide and deliver an entirely new level of entertainment but also enhance the picture quality to near high definition on legacy DVD titles by all studios. In short, we added high def to DVD which already is the de facto standard format created and approved by the DVD Forum that consists of more than two hundred companies."

While Toshiba overstates in its press release the improvement of upscaling DVDs to 1080 resolutions (especially when compared to true high-definition movies), those looking to extend the life if their existing standard-definition libraries should consider a high-definition player. Nearly all Blu-ray Disc players on the market, including the PlayStation 3, also feature similar upscaling technologies.

Toshiba said that its new advertising strategies will include television, print and online media channels, along with dealers and studio partners on joint marketing and promotional initiatives to promote HD DVD.

With Warner Bros. siding exclusively with Blu-ray Disc this summer, Toshiba appears to be exploring every angle to turn the tide in the still-ongoing high-definition format war.

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Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By m0mentary on 1/14/2008 9:03:55 PM , Rating: 2
as indicated, Blu-ray players also upscale DVDs, although any marketing from Toshiba would be an improvement as I've yet to see a SINGLE ad for HD-DVD.

Smash TV anyone?

"Good Luck...you'll need it!"




By masher2 (blog) on 1/14/2008 9:20:34 PM , Rating: 5
> "as indicated, Blu-ray players also upscale DVDs"

True, but when you shell out $400 for an HD player, you're definitely buying it for its HD capability. If you're paying $150 (or less, street price), you can position it as an upscaling DVD player that also happens to play HD discs.

It's a similar tactic to Sony's inclusion of BD in the PS3, which millions of people bought as a game console, and only secondarily as an HD player.

Will it work? Only time will tell.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By cochy on 1/14/2008 9:50:01 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Will it work? Only time will tell


No.

-Father Time


By Funksultan on 1/15/2008 8:56:42 AM , Rating: 2
Heheh, gods of DailyTech, if that's not a 6, I dunno what is.

Thanks cochy, that made my morning.


By therealnickdanger on 1/15/2008 9:57:02 AM , Rating: 1
Haha! Indeed.


By PandaBear on 1/15/2008 4:06:03 PM , Rating: 2
The main question is, does it play DivX and other pirate content? I know Philips does, but and Sony for sure not, what about Toshiba?


By EODetroit on 1/15/2008 5:43:05 PM , Rating: 2
Actually the PS3 was recently patched to play DivX / XVid. Just this past weekend I played some downloaded BSG episodes on one and it played without any problems, worked perfectly off a flash drive plugged into one of its USB connectors AND off a burned data DVD, both of which I brought to test with. One of the files would never play on my Philips DVD player because it was too high resolution, but the PS3 handled it no problem.

I'm no Sony lover (just check my comment history), but I'm not going to not praise them when they do something right.

They finally did something right.


By kkwst2 on 1/16/2008 7:55:44 AM , Rating: 2
For me, this is relatively inconsequential given that they can be used as media extenders even without native support. I have the 360, but I understand it works just as well with the PS3. I use Tversity to stream all my music/divx/pics to my tv via the 360. It works great. I only have one downloaded divx video that stutters, otherwise flawless. I'm assuming that it's because the transcoding can't keep up. I've been really happy with that piece of software.

So native support isn't really necessary, but does keep you from having to transcode.


By wonderhat7 on 1/17/2008 7:47:00 PM , Rating: 2
epic lulz

blu-ray is fudged too, though
digital distribution will be widespread enough by the time one of the two hard formats is officially a vicotr


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By sxr7171 on 1/14/08, Rating: -1
By masher2 (blog) on 1/14/2008 11:09:24 PM , Rating: 5
> "the majority of those millions of PS3s in homes today were bought as the cheapest possible Blu-Ray player"

The majority? No, I don't believe so, given the attach rate on PS3s back in August was on the order of 0.3 (i.e. 3 PS3 owners to one disk sold). No one is going to buy a PS3 for the sole purpose of playing BD discs...then not buy any discs for it.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By lopri on 1/14/08, Rating: -1
RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By Spuke on 1/15/2008 1:04:05 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
Maybe not the 'majority', but a 'significant portion' of PS3 buyers were/are intend to use it as a Blu-Ray player.
40% of PS3 owners don't know that there's even a Bluray player in the unit. 50% of the PS3 owners that DID know there was a Bluray player in the unit did not use it to watch movies. So you have a whopping 30% of all PS3 owners that know they have Bluray players AND use it to watch movies. HARDLY a majority at all.

Most people buy game consoles to play games. The numbers support this assertion.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By Marlowe on 1/15/08, Rating: -1
RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By jamdunc on 1/15/2008 3:39:55 AM , Rating: 5
40% did not know so that leaves 60% that did know.

50% of 60% = 30%

Simple really.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By JimFear on 1/15/2008 9:09:03 AM , Rating: 2
Aren't 90% of statistics made up anyway? :D

On a serious note though, where did you pull those figures from? You'd have to question EVERYONE who bought a PS3 to get realistic numbers and as trends change they'd only be valid for a set period of time. Looking at your percentages I can affirm you've asked at least 10 people.


By masher2 (blog) on 1/15/2008 9:15:21 AM , Rating: 4
> "You'd have to question EVERYONE who bought a PS3 to get realistic numbers "

Luckily not, thanks to the miracle of statistical sampling.


By The Sword 88 on 1/15/2008 10:05:24 AM , Rating: 2
But that still leaves the question of where did his stats come from?


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By DrKlahn on 1/15/2008 10:15:16 AM , Rating: 2
Well when Spider-Man 3 was released it was the best selling title on the format at the time. It sold 130,000 units in it's first week. There were roughly 100,000 standalone players at the time and 3 million PS3's. So at least in North America (which these numbers were for) the attach rate for PS3 is pretty abysmal.


By rninneman on 1/15/2008 10:45:45 AM , Rating: 2
That is so horribly wrong.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By Spuke on 1/15/2008 11:23:59 AM , Rating: 2
By rninneman on 1/15/2008 8:33:13 PM , Rating: 2
You misread your own source. Let me help.

quote:
According to the results, only 40% of PlayStation 3 owners polled were aware the machine had a Blu-ray player and about 50% of that number had popped in a Blu-ray movie during the last 10 times they turned on the machine -- the other half didn't use the feature.


They meant 50% of 40% had used it to watch a Blu-Ray within the last 10 times they turned it on. That means 20% are using their PS3 as a Blu-Ray player. I'd say 20% is significant because that means there are more PS3s used as BR players than HD-DVD standalone players.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By Clauzii on 1/16/2008 6:21:03 AM , Rating: 2
So true.


By Clauzii on 1/16/2008 6:42:34 AM , Rating: 2
This was a reply to rninneman..


By HighWing on 1/15/2008 12:51:53 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
40% of PS3 owners don't know that there's even a Bluray player in the unit.


I keep hearing this being thrown around and I have to say I find that number very hard to believe considering that for a long time they were giving away free Blue-ray movies with it. I mean seriously 40% of the total people that bought a PS3 has got to be at least over 100,000 people or more. And given the length of the Free BD movie deal, we could safely say that most of them probably got that deal. So then your telling me that ~90,000(just a guess but it's probably higher) people or more bought a PS3, and received several BD movies, yet they did not know that the PS3 was a BD player? Even after all the ads in papers, and news coverage, as well as talk on the web and from friends and they still don't know it's a BD player??

IMO if any place/site etc is saying that 40% don't know a PS3 is a BD player then their numbers are obviously wrong and their sample group was not very well diverse.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By jjabrams on 1/15/2008 4:41:00 AM , Rating: 5
Isnt that sony's whole point?
dual attack with their console.
If you're a movie watcher you can get sucked into the gaming side and buy games.
If you're a gamer you will eventually buy blu-ray movies.


By jacarte8 on 1/15/2008 1:02:52 PM , Rating: 2
I did the same thing... bought my PS3 for Blu-Ray, and got a great deal on it. The only game I own (after 8 months of ownership) is Guitar Hero 3, and only because it has a wireless guitar.

However, I also own the HD DVD attachment for the 360, and just bought the Toshiba A3 for the 7 free HD-DVDs, plus for a DVD player upgrade for my TV in my bedroom.


By theapparition on 1/15/2008 8:55:56 AM , Rating: 2
With the current BD attach rate, for every one like you, there are 5 others who haven't purchased a single disc.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By jjabrams on 1/15/2008 10:43:00 AM , Rating: 3
even if they dont purchase any additional discs, its not like that customer is going to jump camps over to hd-dvd? I mean they already have the blu ray player!
So eventually when dvd gets phased out they will buy blu ray.
Then again of course they could be a person that doesnt watch movies at all; I met a person like that once, I had no idea what to say because if you like bad films I can at least 'diss you for that but no films?


By theapparition on 1/15/2008 4:18:07 PM , Rating: 2
Sure it is. Many have both formats, and what works for a game console, may not transfer into the living room. One of my friends has a HD-DVD player, plus a PS3 for his kid's bedroom.

Myself, I have 4 HD-DVD players and 2 Blu-Ray players.


By jjabrams on 1/15/2008 9:22:51 PM , Rating: 2
yes but when your friends child wants to buy shrek 3 - what format are they going to buy it in? (assuming of course it was available in both formats)

you've already phased yourself out from the possible target audience by showing that
1) you've hedged your bets and dipped into both formats
2) you're rich enough to buy anything you want


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By Wagnbat on 1/14/2008 11:53:55 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
No one is going to buy a PS3 for the sole purpose of playing BD discs...then not buy any discs for it.


That's exactly what I did. I got my PS3 in November of 2006 and I have not bought a single game for it yet. I did indeed buy it with hopes of gaming on it eventually, but unfortunately there is not a single game on PS3 that is better on that system than on my Xbox 360. I also have a Wii and a high end PC gaming rig. The original lure of the PS3 was indeed Blu-ray for me. And hopefully a full version of Grand Tourismo 5 will follow shortly after this 'prologue' crap they're selling to us for $50-70 this spring.


By Wagnbat on 1/14/2008 11:55:51 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, and I've ended up not buying a single BR disc... The ones on sale at Amazon pretty much aren't worth getting imho... And with my decent DVD collection, anything I'm interested I get delivered on BR disc via Blockbuster Online as many times a month as I can watch them.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By Aikouka on 1/15/2008 8:22:16 AM , Rating: 1
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't attach rates tend to describe console to games not console to movies? I think you might be mixing up the news of Sony's poor game attachment rate last year with the "only some low percentage of people use blu-ray on the ps3" news from last year. If that's true, that would mean that since game attachment is (or really was) so poor, people must be doing something with their PS3... F@H... blu-ray... linux? Who knows.


By masher2 (blog) on 1/15/2008 8:39:35 AM , Rating: 1
> "Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't attach rates tend to describe console to games not console to movies?"

It applies to both...and a few thousand other things also. It can apply to any product normally sold as an accessory to a much higher-priced one, e.g. the attach rate of "monster cables" to an HDTV.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By Aikouka on 1/15/2008 9:16:09 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, it can refer to multiple things, but when you're talking about a console's attach rate (my fault for not being specific), it tends to refer to games. The PS3's attach rate was poor as there weren't many games per console being sold, but I do not recall a single news story here or elsewhere about poor Blu-Ray attachment (since you suggested it, I would like to see your source). There was (like I said), a story about only 30% ( or something around that ) people knowing that their PS3 can play hi-definition movies. That news story does not equate to a poor blu-ray attachment of 1 disc per 3 players.


By Aikouka on 1/15/2008 9:38:01 AM , Rating: 2
I'm not a fan of responding to myself, but I can't ignore the fact that I didn't post my own source (in other words, was too lazy to find said article). So I went and found it. It seems the number was (remember this is around 5 months old) 40% of PS3 owners know that the PS3 can handle blu-ray movies not 30%.

Here's the link:
http://www.dailytech.com/Report+Most+Gamers+Cluele...


By masher2 (blog) on 1/15/2008 9:38:25 AM , Rating: 1
> "but when you're talking about a console's attach rate ...it tends to refer to games"

It depends on the context. The BD disc attach rate for the PS3 has been widely discussed. If you don't trust the source, calculate a value yourself. Back in August, there were more PS3s on the market than total discs sold. Even if you don't factor in the much higher attach rate for SA players, that works out to rate <1.0.

Factor in any reasonable assumption for SA players, and you'll get a figure very close to what I quoted.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By Carl B on 1/15/2008 11:25:16 AM , Rating: 2
Whatever the attach rates, obviously the absolute figures of participation on the BD side are more than enough to lead BD to roughly 2:1 sales in the US, and much higher everywhere else in the world.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By Spuke on 1/15/2008 12:34:55 PM , Rating: 2
The attach rates are the most important because that's movie sales. If Bluray movies aren't selling then it'll take MUCH longer for it to overtake DVD. Having a HD player and using it to watch DVD's ONLY is retarded especially at Bluray prices. An upconvert DVD player is a much smarter buy in that case.


By SavagePotato on 1/15/2008 12:38:47 PM , Rating: 2
I guess Warner and all their financial analysts that made the decision to drop hd-dvd are just not as in the know as the average forum poster on dailytech about what matters most.

That makes perfect sense for them to make willy nilly decisions based on the trouncing in overall sales when clearly every self proclaimed forum expert in the world says attach rates are all that matters.

Grossly inaccurate and useless attach rates based on the inclusion or dis-inclusion of the ps3 in the calculation no less.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By porkpie on 1/15/2008 1:51:28 PM , Rating: 2
Warner Bros was paid by the Blu Ray consortium to go exclusive, just as Paramount was paid to go HD-DVD. They didn't get a cash check, but they got a huge longterm discount on royalty rates.

And no, attach rates are not "all that matters". But denying they're important is just FUD.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By Spuke on 1/15/2008 3:48:13 PM , Rating: 2
This whole Bluray vs HD DVD thing is irritating. I just don't see the importance of one format over the other. They're both HD and neither holds a candle to DVD sales. The only reason why I post in these threads to prevent misinformation and to TRY to make this less emotional. I mean it's just a media format for God's sake! I could care less which one gets accepted.


By rninneman on 1/15/2008 9:23:16 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
This whole Bluray vs HD DVD thing is irritating.


I agree; Toshiba should respectfully bow out so we can all move on.

quote:
I just don't see the importance of one format over the other.


It's important one format win sooner rather than later otherwise both will fail like SACD and DVD-Audio.

quote:
They're both HD and neither holds a candle to DVD sales.


What a stupid comment. Anything new won't sell nearly as much as the incumbent technology or product.

quote:
The only reason why I post in these threads to prevent misinformation and to TRY to make this less emotional.


You only spread misinformation and fuel emotion in these threads.

quote:
I mean it's just a media format for God's sake!


Hallelujah!

quote:
I could care less which one gets accepted.


You did care about HD-DVD winning until you found out you invested in the loser.


By SavagePotato on 1/16/2008 12:41:56 AM , Rating: 2
Simply not true, just a symptom of sour grapes.

It has been repeatedly stated by Warner they took no form of payoff.

Attach rates are simply not, and never will be an acurate representation for blu ray vs hd-dvd. The fact of the matter is no one knows how many people bought their ps3 simply for blu ray. Because of the ps3 you will not get an accurate attach rate comparison ever between the two.

Add to this the fact that the hd-dvd group likes to conveniently include or dis-include the ps3 however it suits them best in numbers. IE ps3 doesn't count in total sales, but suddenly ps3 does count in attach rate.

I'm sorry, can't have your cake and eat it too.


By EODetroit on 1/15/2008 5:49:52 PM , Rating: 2
If you read reviews on Blu Ray players, its pretty clear that you'd be a fool not to buy a PS3 instead of a dedicated Blu Ray player. They can't define the standard, going from 1.0 to 1.1 to 2.0. Only the PS3 is certain to be upgradable. That's enough reason right there, no one wants a $600 boat anchor.


By sxr7171 on 1/16/2008 12:11:53 AM , Rating: 2
0.3 and you don't see a problem with that? Come on? If people bought thing to play games wouldn't that ratio be at least 1? Who buys a console without buying even one game for it? If anything it indicates that 2 of 3 PS3 owners bought it for Blu-Ray primarily.


By andrewsdw on 1/15/2008 3:20:01 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
If I were a developer looking to make money (as developers often are) I'd half-ass that port just to get that thing running and selling.

Why do you think some of the ports looks worse. Might as well call you EA. BTW nice "unbiased" post and I am glad you speak for the whole population. You speak as if it's gospel. Some people amaze me.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By Malhavoc on 1/14/2008 11:01:15 PM , Rating: 2
In the end, you'll still be buying an upscaling DVD player as the up-scaling DVD player that also happens to play HD-DVDs still won't play Blu-ray by that route.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By leexgx on 1/15/2008 1:12:55 AM , Rating: 2
whats surprising is the PS3 is set to upscale off by default as i asumed it was on (most likey so you buy more BR movies)

when playing an dvd movie press green(options) button goto A/V options and press X on upscale and change it to Fullscreen press X and you tv will now switch from 480p to what ever you set your output to (it does save so you only need to do it once), now all the squares go away very much so an big improvement


By leexgx on 1/15/2008 1:17:47 AM , Rating: 2
or was it 578i default output mode (every thing looks ugly and blocky at that res more so when its on an 42" screen)


By hcforde on 1/15/2008 12:03:24 AM , Rating: 2
When Walmart had their 'secret' sale back in Nov., a lady came intent on just getting a cheap laptop. I was there to get the HD-DVD for $100. She was cluless as to what they really were but when I told her it would upscale their current dvd library she bought one also. Stating a common attribute that both brands may have is a common tactic used in advertising. Too bad the HD-DVD camp waited so long to use it.


By wallijonn on 1/15/2008 10:11:17 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
It's a similar tactic to Sony's inclusion of BD in the PS3, which millions of people bought as a game console, and only secondarily as an HD player.


Guys, let's not rehash the whole PS3 argument. Even at 30%, that translates to about 3 million BD players to HD-DVDs 1.5 million players. The plain fact is that the PS3 is the best BD player out since it has the built in memory which will allow it to be upgraded to Profile 2.0. All others will be obsolete. Profile 2.0 will need 1G of memory.

It is also plain that it costs $400, minimum, and as such will never be accepted by the masses.

Just say that 33% use it primarily as a BD player, 33% use it primarily as a gaming console and 33% use it for both, making it about 50%/50%.

I suspect that the game attach rate is as low as the movie attach rate, on average. In that case the PS3 could be considered a failure. If game software sales are subsidising hardware sales and very few games are sold then Sony takes a beating and it will take a long time for them to re-coup their losses. Surely everyone can agree that, on average, the movie attach rate should be halved since most buy their movies in BOGOs through Amazon. I bought seven at $19.99 retail (Amazon) and 12 at half price (Amazon BOGOs). I will no longer pay $27.95, and up for a movie. HD-DVD included. $60 for a game? Forgetaboutit.

I own 20 HD-DVD movies, 20 BD movies, a PS3, a Wii, a PS2 (with over 25 games) and an N64. I will probably buy a 360 soon. Wii games, 2, PS3 games, 0.

Maybe Sony doesn't want anyone coming out with a $100 BD player...


By Spuke on 1/15/2008 11:36:45 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Maybe Sony doesn't want anyone coming out with a $100 BD player...
Not yet, IMO, I still think there will be one on the next Black Friday. If not, I'll wait till the following year.


By FS on 1/14/2008 9:29:49 PM , Rating: 2
For the price(a little more) of a regular upscaling dvd player you'll be getting HD playing capability. same as for the price(a little more) of a gaming console you're getting bluray playing capability in a PS3.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By AlexWade on 1/14/2008 9:35:56 PM , Rating: 2
Well, they better do something. The ship is sinking and fast. There is still time to make WB reconsider, but there isn't much time left.


By SavagePotato on 1/14/2008 10:43:01 PM , Rating: 1
If I'm not mistaken no studio has flip flopped yet period.

I can't think of one studio that was exclusive to either format that went exclusive to the other format, or back again.

If there is to be any flip flopping at this point it will be Universal and Paramount flipping back to blu ray, and hd-dvd summarily flopping head first into the gutter.

It's time to face facts, all hd-dvd is doing at this point is being a nuisance. Rental outlets are NOT going to stock two new formats. The only places that rent now are major stores like blockbuster. I can't even rent blu ray, or hd dvd in my smaller town because none of the local stores will touch either without a winner. If there never is a winner, hd medium is dead two formats is one too many for shelves.


By masher2 (blog) on 1/14/2008 11:12:35 PM , Rating: 2
> "Rental outlets are NOT going to stock two new formats"

I guess you don't remember all the years rental outlets stocked both VHS and DVD, eh?

> "I can't even rent blu ray, or hd dvd in my smaller town because none of the local stores will touch either without a winner"

No. The reason you can't rent either is that sales are not high enough. Its total volume that counts at the retail level, not which format is "leading".


By SavagePotato on 1/14/2008 11:28:15 PM , Rating: 2
DVD will be on the shelves for many many years, hd-dvd, blu-ray and dvd are not going to be up there together for those many years. Theres simply no room for it, and it is a foregone conclusion that DVD will be around a long time.

Retailers do not want this, rental outlets do not want this. Thats why many have already chosen sides such as target and blockbuster.


By Farfignewton on 1/14/2008 11:55:10 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
> "Rental outlets are NOT going to stock two new formats"


quote:
I guess you don't remember all the years rental outlets stocked both VHS and DVD, eh?


We all know DVD and VHS were not new at the same time, but given that Masher can probably prove that they were, I shall refrain from saying so. ;)


By Alexstarfire on 1/15/2008 1:58:43 AM , Rating: 2
Well, VHS and DVD weren't new at the same time, but they seem to have made VHS tapes for a long while. I can walk into my local video store and go grab some pretty recent movies on VHS. I can't remember the latest, but I remember seeing Termintor 3 on VHS.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By jamdunc on 1/15/2008 3:44:55 AM , Rating: 2
Just so you know, you say you can't rent 2 new formates or something. What about games. There has always been multiple formats to rent. And they do stock both!


By masher2 (blog) on 1/15/2008 8:00:36 AM , Rating: 3
> "you say you can't rent 2 new formates or something. What about games. There has always been multiple formats to rent"

Exactly. My low (non-BB) store stocks the following formats:

VHS
DVD
HD-DVD
BD
XBox (games)
XBox 360 (games)
PS2 (games)
PS3 (games)
DS (games)

They're about to add Wii...and they just stopped renting PS1 games last year.

The idea that retailers "won't stock" more than one format is sheer FUD.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By Slappi on 1/15/2008 8:55:40 AM , Rating: 4
SavagePotato Vs. Masher2 = MashedPotatos


By SavagePotato on 1/15/2008 9:56:22 AM , Rating: 1
Heres how it realy works masher = take one point of any comment that can be spun or twisted and try to confuse and "win" an argument based on that.

I have yet to see anything said about which studios have flip flopped back and forth shifting their exclusivity from one to the other. Which was the main point of the discussion. No just some attempts to put a spin on the rental and retail situation. and some world class ass-kissing by site fanboys.

Never mind the fact that rental outlets like blockbuster have gone exclusive. I don't know if it's happend yet or still just a rumor but there was talk of Rogers video(which is the other major canadian rental outlet) doing the same.

Retailers like target, exclusive. Of course he is going to come out with the standard hd-dvd line that evil sony payed them off to go exclusive. Fud and spin after all is what he does.


By Vanilla Thunder on 1/15/2008 12:51:23 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Heres how it realy works masher = take one point of any comment that can be spun or twisted and try to confuse and "win" an argument based on that.


Amen.

V


By SavagePotato on 1/15/2008 9:39:28 AM , Rating: 1
Again there you go comparing apples to oranges.

How many games do they have to stock? The store I rent from has about 2% of their floor space dedicated to game rentals. How many ps2 games are there? and ps2 is a console with one of the most games ever made. Is it 4-500? something in there?

Now how many movies does the same shop have? I don't know the answer but I recall them placing a paper ad back when they rented just vhs before dvd boasting over 10k vhs movies in their total inventory.

Right now HD media has very little in the way of titles, if they get to the thousands of titles that dvd has, no they will not stock three main formats. Ones like blockbuster have already shown they have no interest in this.

You want to talk about sheer fud, thats funny. Everything you post is a twisted fud slant of your own take on things.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By jamdunc on 1/15/2008 11:56:36 AM , Rating: 2
Well actually Masher replied to back up my post which was a reply to a post by yourself which was in reply to Master Kenobi and is no way a fud slant on anything.

I am up no-one's ass and I can't see why we cannot compare them both? They're both formats of entertainment. Games and Movies. Nowadays they're moving closer and closer together.

And does it matter how much of each is on the shelves? They're on the shelves, period. You cannot say "oh it's only 2% so it doesn't count". 2% of something is more than 100% of nothing.


By SavagePotato on 1/15/2008 12:10:05 PM , Rating: 2
How does it matter? Because if they have 10 shelves devoted to 3 different game formats, and 200 shelves devoted to trying to stock three different video formats it is a totally different situation.

Your talking about a fraction of the actual inventory to be managed for games as opposed to the overhead of managing and finding space for potentially thousands of video titles.

Yes right now the releases for blu ray and hd-dvd number in the hundreds. That is the opposite of what the high def enthusiast wants. I want thousands and thousands of titles, and all new titles available for me to rent in blu ray. For there to be those kind of numbers for all three formats and still be manageable is not reality.

Are you going to have 20 copies of a new movie on DVD, 20 on blu, and 20 on hd-dvd all sitting together taking up 3x as much shelf space? No never going to happen, thats why with two HD formats it never can get out of the niche market and into mass acceptance with the hope of replacing DVD one day.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By Spuke on 1/15/2008 12:43:33 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Are you going to have 20 copies of a new movie on DVD, 20 on blu, and 20 on hd-dvd all sitting together taking up 3x as much shelf space?
If all of those are selling then yes, if they aren't selling then no. If masher's store has all of those differing formats on inventory then they're obviously selling else they wouldn't be on the inventory.


By SavagePotato on 1/15/2008 12:53:20 PM , Rating: 2
His store has all those game formats for rent. I doubt very much there is a movie rental store out there that has equal shelf space devoted to hd-dvd, blu ray, and DVD for new releases.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By jamdunc on 1/15/2008 2:37:52 PM , Rating: 2
Whoever mentioned equal shelf space? We just mentioned shelf space, equal or not.

You keep making the goalposts smaller to fit your argument which in a way is something you have berated Masher for.

Reminds me of a saying which I can never remember perfectly from the medieval times in England:

"He who comes into Equity must come with clean hands."

Well the principle fits.


By SavagePotato on 1/15/2008 8:14:32 PM , Rating: 2
I guess the entire point is lost on you.

HD media needs to get bigger, it is never going to do that with two formats, never going to surpass DVD with two formats.

Warner saw this.


By reader1 on 1/15/2008 10:39:46 AM , Rating: 3
Tell that to the people who bought Beta.


By Spuke on 1/15/2008 1:11:02 AM , Rating: 2
Netflix still has HD DVD rentals. I've never rented from any other place so I can't speak on their availability elsewhere (or Bluray for that matter).


By joemoedee on 1/15/2008 6:40:27 AM , Rating: 2
I agree that it probably won't work, solely because the majority of the population doesn't know what Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, or upscaling DVD player is/does.

It's still very early for this technology, IMO. Last numbers I saw stated that about 28% of the American population had a HDTV. (I'm sure that has grown over the holiday season, but I'm doubtful its THAT much more)

I'm unsure of how many actual get some sort of HD service to the set. (I know a few people that have HD capable televisions that don't have HD cable/sat)

On top of that ~28%, how many own televisions that display 1080p content? Maybe half or less, I'd assume.

Basically anything beyond regular DVD is overkill for probably 90% of the population of America. It's all still a very niche market, and will continue to be for awhile.

It's looking more and more that Blu-Ray will be the format of choice, but who knows when most everyone can't benefit from either format at this time.

Even when the "winning" format takes its foothold, it still will be a long time for it to really obtain any real, established installed base over DVD itself.

You'll finally see the tide change when you walk into a Blockbuster and see more HD-DVD/Blu-Ray disks to rent than DVD disks. I don't see that happening any time soon.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By grampaw on 1/15/2008 12:10:41 PM , Rating: 2
Toshiba does have a point here. I actually ran some tests with conventional Standard Def upscaling DVD players, SONY and Toshiba brands, comparing their upscaling picture against the upscaled picture from both my Toshiba A20 HD-DVD player and my Sony PS3. My conclusion was that the upscaling by the Hi Def players was far superior to the Standard Def upscaling players.

I've posting comments in many forums during the last few weeks that should the HD DVD standard die, I still have an exceptional upscaling player with my Toshiba A20. Wonder if Toshiba Marketing folks stole my idea?


By SavagePotato on 1/15/2008 12:58:25 PM , Rating: 1
The a35 has top notch upscaling arguably second to none. Though it is also close to $300 dollars still for a great upscaling dvd player with support for a dying hd format.

Can't see buying one for that, and the a35 to my knowledge has the best upscaling of all the Toshiba players. The super cheap a3 isn't even an option with it's sub par audio capability.


By Spuke on 1/15/2008 6:29:36 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The super cheap a3 isn't even an option with it's sub par audio capability.
I wouldn't call it subpar but it's technically inferior to the A2. Whether or not you can hear a difference between the two is debatable.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By porkpie on 1/15/2008 1:53:51 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Toshiba does have a point here. I actually ran some tests with conventional Standard Def upscaling DVD players, SONY and Toshiba brands, comparing their upscaling picture against the upscaled picture from both my Toshiba A20 HD-DVD player and my Sony PS3. My conclusion was that the upscaling by the Hi Def players was far superior to the Standard Def upscaling players.
Right. FUD aside, even the low end HD-DVD players upscale on the level of a $1000 Denon unit.