backtop

Print E-mail del.icio.us 162 comment(s) - last by SavagePotato.. on Jan 20 at 3:15 AM

Toshiba HD-A35
Toshiba slashes prices on HD DVD players and launches campaign targeting SD DVD owners

Seemingly resolute in its cause, Toshiba announced today new pricing and marketing strategies for HD DVD.

Realizing that price is one of the biggest barriers in mass consumer adoption of a new technology, Toshiba has dropped its suggested retail pricing across the entire third-generation HD DVD player line. Effective starting January 13, the price of the entry-model HD-A3 will be $149.99, the HD-A30, with 1080p output, $199.99, and the high-end HD-A35, $299.99.

New, lower pricing on Toshiba HD DVD hardware appeared over the weekend when online retailers listed the HD-A3 as low as $129.99 and the HD-A30 at $179.98.

"While price is one of the consideration elements for the early adopter, it is a deal-breaker for the mainstream consumer," said Yoshi Uchiyama, Group Vice President Digital A/V Group. "Consumer sales this holiday season have proven that the consumer awareness of the HD DVD format has been elevated and pricing is the most critical determinant in consumers' purchase decision of the next generation HD DVD technology. The value HD DVD provides to the consumer simply cannot be ignored."

Last year, special holiday sales of entry level HD DVD players had consumers taking home new hardware for under $100. Thanks to priced-to-move sales on HD DVD hardware, Toshiba moved 90,000 players during a weekend sales rush.

The second point to Toshiba’s two-pronged attacked is its new marketing campaign aimed to inform consumers on the DVD-upscaling capabilities of its HD DVD players. All of Toshiba’s HD DVD players will upscale a standard-definition DVD to high-definition resolutions.

"HD DVD is the best way to watch movies in high definition," said Jodi Sally, Vice President of Marketing, Toshiba's Digital A/V Group. "Our HD DVD players not only play back approximately 800 HD DVD titles available worldwide and deliver an entirely new level of entertainment but also enhance the picture quality to near high definition on legacy DVD titles by all studios. In short, we added high def to DVD which already is the de facto standard format created and approved by the DVD Forum that consists of more than two hundred companies."

While Toshiba overstates in its press release the improvement of upscaling DVDs to 1080 resolutions (especially when compared to true high-definition movies), those looking to extend the life if their existing standard-definition libraries should consider a high-definition player. Nearly all Blu-ray Disc players on the market, including the PlayStation 3, also feature similar upscaling technologies.

Toshiba said that its new advertising strategies will include television, print and online media channels, along with dealers and studio partners on joint marketing and promotional initiatives to promote HD DVD.

With Warner Bros. siding exclusively with Blu-ray Disc this summer, Toshiba appears to be exploring every angle to turn the tide in the still-ongoing high-definition format war.

Comments     Threshold


This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled
Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By m0mentary on 1/14/2008 9:03:55 PM , Rating: 2
as indicated, Blu-ray players also upscale DVDs, although any marketing from Toshiba would be an improvement as I've yet to see a SINGLE ad for HD-DVD.

Smash TV anyone?

"Good Luck...you'll need it!"




By masher2 (blog) on 1/14/2008 9:20:34 PM , Rating: 5
> "as indicated, Blu-ray players also upscale DVDs"

True, but when you shell out $400 for an HD player, you're definitely buying it for its HD capability. If you're paying $150 (or less, street price), you can position it as an upscaling DVD player that also happens to play HD discs.

It's a similar tactic to Sony's inclusion of BD in the PS3, which millions of people bought as a game console, and only secondarily as an HD player.

Will it work? Only time will tell.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By cochy on 1/14/2008 9:50:01 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Will it work? Only time will tell


No.

-Father Time


By Funksultan on 1/15/2008 8:56:42 AM , Rating: 2
Heheh, gods of DailyTech, if that's not a 6, I dunno what is.

Thanks cochy, that made my morning.


By therealnickdanger on 1/15/2008 9:57:02 AM , Rating: 1
Haha! Indeed.


By PandaBear on 1/15/2008 4:06:03 PM , Rating: 2
The main question is, does it play DivX and other pirate content? I know Philips does, but and Sony for sure not, what about Toshiba?


By EODetroit on 1/15/2008 5:43:05 PM , Rating: 2
Actually the PS3 was recently patched to play DivX / XVid. Just this past weekend I played some downloaded BSG episodes on one and it played without any problems, worked perfectly off a flash drive plugged into one of its USB connectors AND off a burned data DVD, both of which I brought to test with. One of the files would never play on my Philips DVD player because it was too high resolution, but the PS3 handled it no problem.

I'm no Sony lover (just check my comment history), but I'm not going to not praise them when they do something right.

They finally did something right.


By kkwst2 on 1/16/2008 7:55:44 AM , Rating: 2
For me, this is relatively inconsequential given that they can be used as media extenders even without native support. I have the 360, but I understand it works just as well with the PS3. I use Tversity to stream all my music/divx/pics to my tv via the 360. It works great. I only have one downloaded divx video that stutters, otherwise flawless. I'm assuming that it's because the transcoding can't keep up. I've been really happy with that piece of software.

So native support isn't really necessary, but does keep you from having to transcode.


By wonderhat7 on 1/17/2008 7:47:00 PM , Rating: 2
epic lulz

blu-ray is fudged too, though
digital distribution will be widespread enough by the time one of the two hard formats is officially a vicotr


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By sxr7171 on 1/14/08, Rating: -1
By masher2 (blog) on 1/14/2008 11:09:24 PM , Rating: 5
> "the majority of those millions of PS3s in homes today were bought as the cheapest possible Blu-Ray player"

The majority? No, I don't believe so, given the attach rate on PS3s back in August was on the order of 0.3 (i.e. 3 PS3 owners to one disk sold). No one is going to buy a PS3 for the sole purpose of playing BD discs...then not buy any discs for it.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By lopri on 1/14/08, Rating: -1
RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By Spuke on 1/15/2008 1:04:05 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
Maybe not the 'majority', but a 'significant portion' of PS3 buyers were/are intend to use it as a Blu-Ray player.
40% of PS3 owners don't know that there's even a Bluray player in the unit. 50% of the PS3 owners that DID know there was a Bluray player in the unit did not use it to watch movies. So you have a whopping 30% of all PS3 owners that know they have Bluray players AND use it to watch movies. HARDLY a majority at all.

Most people buy game consoles to play games. The numbers support this assertion.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By Marlowe on 1/15/08, Rating: -1
RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By jamdunc on 1/15/2008 3:39:55 AM , Rating: 5
40% did not know so that leaves 60% that did know.

50% of 60% = 30%

Simple really.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By JimFear on 1/15/2008 9:09:03 AM , Rating: 2
Aren't 90% of statistics made up anyway? :D

On a serious note though, where did you pull those figures from? You'd have to question EVERYONE who bought a PS3 to get realistic numbers and as trends change they'd only be valid for a set period of time. Looking at your percentages I can affirm you've asked at least 10 people.


By masher2 (blog) on 1/15/2008 9:15:21 AM , Rating: 4
> "You'd have to question EVERYONE who bought a PS3 to get realistic numbers "

Luckily not, thanks to the miracle of statistical sampling.


By The Sword 88 on 1/15/2008 10:05:24 AM , Rating: 2
But that still leaves the question of where did his stats come from?


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By DrKlahn on 1/15/2008 10:15:16 AM , Rating: 2
Well when Spider-Man 3 was released it was the best selling title on the format at the time. It sold 130,000 units in it's first week. There were roughly 100,000 standalone players at the time and 3 million PS3's. So at least in North America (which these numbers were for) the attach rate for PS3 is pretty abysmal.


By rninneman on 1/15/2008 10:45:45 AM , Rating: 2
That is so horribly wrong.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By Spuke on 1/15/2008 11:23:59 AM , Rating: 2
By rninneman on 1/15/2008 8:33:13 PM , Rating: 2
You misread your own source. Let me help.

quote:
According to the results, only 40% of PlayStation 3 owners polled were aware the machine had a Blu-ray player and about 50% of that number had popped in a Blu-ray movie during the last 10 times they turned on the machine -- the other half didn't use the feature.


They meant 50% of 40% had used it to watch a Blu-Ray within the last 10 times they turned it on. That means 20% are using their PS3 as a Blu-Ray player. I'd say 20% is significant because that means there are more PS3s used as BR players than HD-DVD standalone players.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By Clauzii on 1/16/2008 6:21:03 AM , Rating: 2
So true.


By Clauzii on 1/16/2008 6:42:34 AM , Rating: 2
This was a reply to rninneman..


By HighWing on 1/15/2008 12:51:53 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
40% of PS3 owners don't know that there's even a Bluray player in the unit.


I keep hearing this being thrown around and I have to say I find that number very hard to believe considering that for a long time they were giving away free Blue-ray movies with it. I mean seriously 40% of the total people that bought a PS3 has got to be at least over 100,000 people or more. And given the length of the Free BD movie deal, we could safely say that most of them probably got that deal. So then your telling me that ~90,000(just a guess but it's probably higher) people or more bought a PS3, and received several BD movies, yet they did not know that the PS3 was a BD player? Even after all the ads in papers, and news coverage, as well as talk on the web and from friends and they still don't know it's a BD player??

IMO if any place/site etc is saying that 40% don't know a PS3 is a BD player then their numbers are obviously wrong and their sample group was not very well diverse.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By jjabrams on 1/15/2008 4:41:00 AM , Rating: 5
Isnt that sony's whole point?
dual attack with their console.
If you're a movie watcher you can get sucked into the gaming side and buy games.
If you're a gamer you will eventually buy blu-ray movies.


By jacarte8 on 1/15/2008 1:02:52 PM , Rating: 2
I did the same thing... bought my PS3 for Blu-Ray, and got a great deal on it. The only game I own (after 8 months of ownership) is Guitar Hero 3, and only because it has a wireless guitar.

However, I also own the HD DVD attachment for the 360, and just bought the Toshiba A3 for the 7 free HD-DVDs, plus for a DVD player upgrade for my TV in my bedroom.


By theapparition on 1/15/2008 8:55:56 AM , Rating: 2
With the current BD attach rate, for every one like you, there are 5 others who haven't purchased a single disc.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By jjabrams on 1/15/2008 10:43:00 AM , Rating: 3
even if they dont purchase any additional discs, its not like that customer is going to jump camps over to hd-dvd? I mean they already have the blu ray player!
So eventually when dvd gets phased out they will buy blu ray.
Then again of course they could be a person that doesnt watch movies at all; I met a person like that once, I had no idea what to say because if you like bad films I can at least 'diss you for that but no films?


By theapparition on 1/15/2008 4:18:07 PM , Rating: 2
Sure it is. Many have both formats, and what works for a game console, may not transfer into the living room. One of my friends has a HD-DVD player, plus a PS3 for his kid's bedroom.

Myself, I have 4 HD-DVD players and 2 Blu-Ray players.


By jjabrams on 1/15/2008 9:22:51 PM , Rating: 2
yes but when your friends child wants to buy shrek 3 - what format are they going to buy it in? (assuming of course it was available in both formats)

you've already phased yourself out from the possible target audience by showing that
1) you've hedged your bets and dipped into both formats
2) you're rich enough to buy anything you want


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By Wagnbat on 1/14/2008 11:53:55 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
No one is going to buy a PS3 for the sole purpose of playing BD discs...then not buy any discs for it.


That's exactly what I did. I got my PS3 in November of 2006 and I have not bought a single game for it yet. I did indeed buy it with hopes of gaming on it eventually, but unfortunately there is not a single game on PS3 that is better on that system than on my Xbox 360. I also have a Wii and a high end PC gaming rig. The original lure of the PS3 was indeed Blu-ray for me. And hopefully a full version of Grand Tourismo 5 will follow shortly after this 'prologue' crap they're selling to us for $50-70 this spring.


By Wagnbat on 1/14/2008 11:55:51 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, and I've ended up not buying a single BR disc... The ones on sale at Amazon pretty much aren't worth getting imho... And with my decent DVD collection, anything I'm interested I get delivered on BR disc via Blockbuster Online as many times a month as I can watch them.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By Aikouka on 1/15/2008 8:22:16 AM , Rating: 1
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't attach rates tend to describe console to games not console to movies? I think you might be mixing up the news of Sony's poor game attachment rate last year with the "only some low percentage of people use blu-ray on the ps3" news from last year. If that's true, that would mean that since game attachment is (or really was) so poor, people must be doing something with their PS3... F@H... blu-ray... linux? Who knows.


By masher2 (blog) on 1/15/2008 8:39:35 AM , Rating: 1
> "Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't attach rates tend to describe console to games not console to movies?"

It applies to both...and a few thousand other things also. It can apply to any product normally sold as an accessory to a much higher-priced one, e.g. the attach rate of "monster cables" to an HDTV.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By Aikouka on 1/15/2008 9:16:09 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, it can refer to multiple things, but when you're talking about a console's attach rate (my fault for not being specific), it tends to refer to games. The PS3's attach rate was poor as there weren't many games per console being sold, but I do not recall a single news story here or elsewhere about poor Blu-Ray attachment (since you suggested it, I would like to see your source). There was (like I said), a story about only 30% ( or something around that ) people knowing that their PS3 can play hi-definition movies. That news story does not equate to a poor blu-ray attachment of 1 disc per 3 players.


By Aikouka on 1/15/2008 9:38:01 AM , Rating: 2
I'm not a fan of responding to myself, but I can't ignore the fact that I didn't post my own source (in other words, was too lazy to find said article). So I went and found it. It seems the number was (remember this is around 5 months old) 40% of PS3 owners know that the PS3 can handle blu-ray movies not 30%.

Here's the link:
http://www.dailytech.com/Report+Most+Gamers+Cluele...


By masher2 (blog) on 1/15/2008 9:38:25 AM , Rating: 1
> "but when you're talking about a console's attach rate ...it tends to refer to games"

It depends on the context. The BD disc attach rate for the PS3 has been widely discussed. If you don't trust the source, calculate a value yourself. Back in August, there were more PS3s on the market than total discs sold. Even if you don't factor in the much higher attach rate for SA players, that works out to rate <1.0.

Factor in any reasonable assumption for SA players, and you'll get a figure very close to what I quoted.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By Carl B on 1/15/2008 11:25:16 AM , Rating: 2
Whatever the attach rates, obviously the absolute figures of participation on the BD side are more than enough to lead BD to roughly 2:1 sales in the US, and much higher everywhere else in the world.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By Spuke on 1/15/2008 12:34:55 PM , Rating: 2
The attach rates are the most important because that's movie sales. If Bluray movies aren't selling then it'll take MUCH longer for it to overtake DVD. Having a HD player and using it to watch DVD's ONLY is retarded especially at Bluray prices. An upconvert DVD player is a much smarter buy in that case.


By SavagePotato on 1/15/2008 12:38:47 PM , Rating: 2
I guess Warner and all their financial analysts that made the decision to drop hd-dvd are just not as in the know as the average forum poster on dailytech about what matters most.

That makes perfect sense for them to make willy nilly decisions based on the trouncing in overall sales when clearly every self proclaimed forum expert in the world says attach rates are all that matters.

Grossly inaccurate and useless attach rates based on the inclusion or dis-inclusion of the ps3 in the calculation no less.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By porkpie on 1/15/2008 1:51:28 PM , Rating: 2
Warner Bros was paid by the Blu Ray consortium to go exclusive, just as Paramount was paid to go HD-DVD. They didn't get a cash check, but they got a huge longterm discount on royalty rates.

And no, attach rates are not "all that matters". But denying they're important is just FUD.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By Spuke on 1/15/2008 3:48:13 PM , Rating: 2
This whole Bluray vs HD DVD thing is irritating. I just don't see the importance of one format over the other. They're both HD and neither holds a candle to DVD sales. The only reason why I post in these threads to prevent misinformation and to TRY to make this less emotional. I mean it's just a media format for God's sake! I could care less which one gets accepted.


By rninneman on 1/15/2008 9:23:16 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
This whole Bluray vs HD DVD thing is irritating.


I agree; Toshiba should respectfully bow out so we can all move on.

quote:
I just don't see the importance of one format over the other.


It's important one format win sooner rather than later otherwise both will fail like SACD and DVD-Audio.

quote:
They're both HD and neither holds a candle to DVD sales.


What a stupid comment. Anything new won't sell nearly as much as the incumbent technology or product.

quote:
The only reason why I post in these threads to prevent misinformation and to TRY to make this less emotional.


You only spread misinformation and fuel emotion in these threads.

quote:
I mean it's just a media format for God's sake!


Hallelujah!

quote:
I could care less which one gets accepted.


You did care about HD-DVD winning until you found out you invested in the loser.


By SavagePotato on 1/16/2008 12:41:56 AM , Rating: 2
Simply not true, just a symptom of sour grapes.

It has been repeatedly stated by Warner they took no form of payoff.

Attach rates are simply not, and never will be an acurate representation for blu ray vs hd-dvd. The fact of the matter is no one knows how many people bought their ps3 simply for blu ray. Because of the ps3 you will not get an accurate attach rate comparison ever between the two.

Add to this the fact that the hd-dvd group likes to conveniently include or dis-include the ps3 however it suits them best in numbers. IE ps3 doesn't count in total sales, but suddenly ps3 does count in attach rate.

I'm sorry, can't have your cake and eat it too.


By EODetroit on 1/15/2008 5:49:52 PM , Rating: 2
If you read reviews on Blu Ray players, its pretty clear that you'd be a fool not to buy a PS3 instead of a dedicated Blu Ray player. They can't define the standard, going from 1.0 to 1.1 to 2.0. Only the PS3 is certain to be upgradable. That's enough reason right there, no one wants a $600 boat anchor.


By sxr7171 on 1/16/2008 12:11:53 AM , Rating: 2
0.3 and you don't see a problem with that? Come on? If people bought thing to play games wouldn't that ratio be at least 1? Who buys a console without buying even one game for it? If anything it indicates that 2 of 3 PS3 owners bought it for Blu-Ray primarily.


By andrewsdw on 1/15/2008 3:20:01 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
If I were a developer looking to make money (as developers often are) I'd half-ass that port just to get that thing running and selling.

Why do you think some of the ports looks worse. Might as well call you EA. BTW nice "unbiased" post and I am glad you speak for the whole population. You speak as if it's gospel. Some people amaze me.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By Malhavoc on 1/14/2008 11:01:15 PM , Rating: 2
In the end, you'll still be buying an upscaling DVD player as the up-scaling DVD player that also happens to play HD-DVDs still won't play Blu-ray by that route.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By leexgx on 1/15/2008 1:12:55 AM , Rating: 2
whats surprising is the PS3 is set to upscale off by default as i asumed it was on (most likey so you buy more BR movies)

when playing an dvd movie press green(options) button goto A/V options and press X on upscale and change it to Fullscreen press X and you tv will now switch from 480p to what ever you set your output to (it does save so you only need to do it once), now all the squares go away very much so an big improvement


By leexgx on 1/15/2008 1:17:47 AM , Rating: 2
or was it 578i default output mode (every thing looks ugly and blocky at that res more so when its on an 42" screen)


By hcforde on 1/15/2008 12:03:24 AM , Rating: 2
When Walmart had their 'secret' sale back in Nov., a lady came intent on just getting a cheap laptop. I was there to get the HD-DVD for $100. She was cluless as to what they really were but when I told her it would upscale their current dvd library she bought one also. Stating a common attribute that both brands may have is a common tactic used in advertising. Too bad the HD-DVD camp waited so long to use it.


By wallijonn on 1/15/2008 10:11:17 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
It's a similar tactic to Sony's inclusion of BD in the PS3, which millions of people bought as a game console, and only secondarily as an HD player.


Guys, let's not rehash the whole PS3 argument. Even at 30%, that translates to about 3 million BD players to HD-DVDs 1.5 million players. The plain fact is that the PS3 is the best BD player out since it has the built in memory which will allow it to be upgraded to Profile 2.0. All others will be obsolete. Profile 2.0 will need 1G of memory.

It is also plain that it costs $400, minimum, and as such will never be accepted by the masses.

Just say that 33% use it primarily as a BD player, 33% use it primarily as a gaming console and 33% use it for both, making it about 50%/50%.

I suspect that the game attach rate is as low as the movie attach rate, on average. In that case the PS3 could be considered a failure. If game software sales are subsidising hardware sales and very few games are sold then Sony takes a beating and it will take a long time for them to re-coup their losses. Surely everyone can agree that, on average, the movie attach rate should be halved since most buy their movies in BOGOs through Amazon. I bought seven at $19.99 retail (Amazon) and 12 at half price (Amazon BOGOs). I will no longer pay $27.95, and up for a movie. HD-DVD included. $60 for a game? Forgetaboutit.

I own 20 HD-DVD movies, 20 BD movies, a PS3, a Wii, a PS2 (with over 25 games) and an N64. I will probably buy a 360 soon. Wii games, 2, PS3 games, 0.

Maybe Sony doesn't want anyone coming out with a $100 BD player...


By Spuke on 1/15/2008 11:36:45 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Maybe Sony doesn't want anyone coming out with a $100 BD player...
Not yet, IMO, I still think there will be one on the next Black Friday. If not, I'll wait till the following year.


By FS on 1/14/2008 9:29:49 PM , Rating: 2
For the price(a little more) of a regular upscaling dvd player you'll be getting HD playing capability. same as for the price(a little more) of a gaming console you're getting bluray playing capability in a PS3.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By AlexWade on 1/14/2008 9:35:56 PM , Rating: 2
Well, they better do something. The ship is sinking and fast. There is still time to make WB reconsider, but there isn't much time left.


By SavagePotato on 1/14/2008 10:43:01 PM , Rating: 1
If I'm not mistaken no studio has flip flopped yet period.

I can't think of one studio that was exclusive to either format that went exclusive to the other format, or back again.

If there is to be any flip flopping at this point it will be Universal and Paramount flipping back to blu ray, and hd-dvd summarily flopping head first into the gutter.

It's time to face facts, all hd-dvd is doing at this point is being a nuisance. Rental outlets are NOT going to stock two new formats. The only places that rent now are major stores like blockbuster. I can't even rent blu ray, or hd dvd in my smaller town because none of the local stores will touch either without a winner. If there never is a winner, hd medium is dead two formats is one too many for shelves.


By masher2 (blog) on 1/14/2008 11:12:35 PM , Rating: 2
> "Rental outlets are NOT going to stock two new formats"

I guess you don't remember all the years rental outlets stocked both VHS and DVD, eh?

> "I can't even rent blu ray, or hd dvd in my smaller town because none of the local stores will touch either without a winner"

No. The reason you can't rent either is that sales are not high enough. Its total volume that counts at the retail level, not which format is "leading".


By SavagePotato on 1/14/2008 11:28:15 PM , Rating: 2
DVD will be on the shelves for many many years, hd-dvd, blu-ray and dvd are not going to be up there together for those many years. Theres simply no room for it, and it is a foregone conclusion that DVD will be around a long time.

Retailers do not want this, rental outlets do not want this. Thats why many have already chosen sides such as target and blockbuster.


By Farfignewton on 1/14/2008 11:55:10 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
> "Rental outlets are NOT going to stock two new formats"


quote:
I guess you don't remember all the years rental outlets stocked both VHS and DVD, eh?


We all know DVD and VHS were not new at the same time, but given that Masher can probably prove that they were, I shall refrain from saying so. ;)


By Alexstarfire on 1/15/2008 1:58:43 AM , Rating: 2
Well, VHS and DVD weren't new at the same time, but they seem to have made VHS tapes for a long while. I can walk into my local video store and go grab some pretty recent movies on VHS. I can't remember the latest, but I remember seeing Termintor 3 on VHS.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By jamdunc on 1/15/2008 3:44:55 AM , Rating: 2
Just so you know, you say you can't rent 2 new formates or something. What about games. There has always been multiple formats to rent. And they do stock both!


By masher2 (blog) on 1/15/2008 8:00:36 AM , Rating: 3
> "you say you can't rent 2 new formates or something. What about games. There has always been multiple formats to rent"

Exactly. My low (non-BB) store stocks the following formats:

VHS
DVD
HD-DVD
BD
XBox (games)
XBox 360 (games)
PS2 (games)
PS3 (games)
DS (games)

They're about to add Wii...and they just stopped renting PS1 games last year.

The idea that retailers "won't stock" more than one format is sheer FUD.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By Slappi on 1/15/2008 8:55:40 AM , Rating: 4
SavagePotato Vs. Masher2 = MashedPotatos


By SavagePotato on 1/15/2008 9:56:22 AM , Rating: 1
Heres how it realy works masher = take one point of any comment that can be spun or twisted and try to confuse and "win" an argument based on that.

I have yet to see anything said about which studios have flip flopped back and forth shifting their exclusivity from one to the other. Which was the main point of the discussion. No just some attempts to put a spin on the rental and retail situation. and some world class ass-kissing by site fanboys.

Never mind the fact that rental outlets like blockbuster have gone exclusive. I don't know if it's happend yet or still just a rumor but there was talk of Rogers video(which is the other major canadian rental outlet) doing the same.

Retailers like target, exclusive. Of course he is going to come out with the standard hd-dvd line that evil sony payed them off to go exclusive. Fud and spin after all is what he does.


By Vanilla Thunder on 1/15/2008 12:51:23 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Heres how it realy works masher = take one point of any comment that can be spun or twisted and try to confuse and "win" an argument based on that.


Amen.

V


By SavagePotato on 1/15/2008 9:39:28 AM , Rating: 1
Again there you go comparing apples to oranges.

How many games do they have to stock? The store I rent from has about 2% of their floor space dedicated to game rentals. How many ps2 games are there? and ps2 is a console with one of the most games ever made. Is it 4-500? something in there?

Now how many movies does the same shop have? I don't know the answer but I recall them placing a paper ad back when they rented just vhs before dvd boasting over 10k vhs movies in their total inventory.

Right now HD media has very little in the way of titles, if they get to the thousands of titles that dvd has, no they will not stock three main formats. Ones like blockbuster have already shown they have no interest in this.

You want to talk about sheer fud, thats funny. Everything you post is a twisted fud slant of your own take on things.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By jamdunc on 1/15/2008 11:56:36 AM , Rating: 2
Well actually Masher replied to back up my post which was a reply to a post by yourself which was in reply to Master Kenobi and is no way a fud slant on anything.

I am up no-one's ass and I can't see why we cannot compare them both? They're both formats of entertainment. Games and Movies. Nowadays they're moving closer and closer together.

And does it matter how much of each is on the shelves? They're on the shelves, period. You cannot say "oh it's only 2% so it doesn't count". 2% of something is more than 100% of nothing.


By SavagePotato on 1/15/2008 12:10:05 PM , Rating: 2
How does it matter? Because if they have 10 shelves devoted to 3 different game formats, and 200 shelves devoted to trying to stock three different video formats it is a totally different situation.

Your talking about a fraction of the actual inventory to be managed for games as opposed to the overhead of managing and finding space for potentially thousands of video titles.

Yes right now the releases for blu ray and hd-dvd number in the hundreds. That is the opposite of what the high def enthusiast wants. I want thousands and thousands of titles, and all new titles available for me to rent in blu ray. For there to be those kind of numbers for all three formats and still be manageable is not reality.

Are you going to have 20 copies of a new movie on DVD, 20 on blu, and 20 on hd-dvd all sitting together taking up 3x as much shelf space? No never going to happen, thats why with two HD formats it never can get out of the niche market and into mass acceptance with the hope of replacing DVD one day.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By Spuke on 1/15/2008 12:43:33 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Are you going to have 20 copies of a new movie on DVD, 20 on blu, and 20 on hd-dvd all sitting together taking up 3x as much shelf space?
If all of those are selling then yes, if they aren't selling then no. If masher's store has all of those differing formats on inventory then they're obviously selling else they wouldn't be on the inventory.


By SavagePotato on 1/15/2008 12:53:20 PM , Rating: 2
His store has all those game formats for rent. I doubt very much there is a movie rental store out there that has equal shelf space devoted to hd-dvd, blu ray, and DVD for new releases.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By jamdunc on 1/15/2008 2:37:52 PM , Rating: 2
Whoever mentioned equal shelf space? We just mentioned shelf space, equal or not.

You keep making the goalposts smaller to fit your argument which in a way is something you have berated Masher for.

Reminds me of a saying which I can never remember perfectly from the medieval times in England:

"He who comes into Equity must come with clean hands."

Well the principle fits.


By SavagePotato on 1/15/2008 8:14:32 PM , Rating: 2
I guess the entire point is lost on you.

HD media needs to get bigger, it is never going to do that with two formats, never going to surpass DVD with two formats.

Warner saw this.


By reader1 on 1/15/2008 10:39:46 AM , Rating: 3
Tell that to the people who bought Beta.


By Spuke on 1/15/2008 1:11:02 AM , Rating: 2
Netflix still has HD DVD rentals. I've never rented from any other place so I can't speak on their availability elsewhere (or Bluray for that matter).


By joemoedee on 1/15/2008 6:40:27 AM , Rating: 2
I agree that it probably won't work, solely because the majority of the population doesn't know what Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, or upscaling DVD player is/does.

It's still very early for this technology, IMO. Last numbers I saw stated that about 28% of the American population had a HDTV. (I'm sure that has grown over the holiday season, but I'm doubtful its THAT much more)

I'm unsure of how many actual get some sort of HD service to the set. (I know a few people that have HD capable televisions that don't have HD cable/sat)

On top of that ~28%, how many own televisions that display 1080p content? Maybe half or less, I'd assume.

Basically anything beyond regular DVD is overkill for probably 90% of the population of America. It's all still a very niche market, and will continue to be for awhile.

It's looking more and more that Blu-Ray will be the format of choice, but who knows when most everyone can't benefit from either format at this time.

Even when the "winning" format takes its foothold, it still will be a long time for it to really obtain any real, established installed base over DVD itself.

You'll finally see the tide change when you walk into a Blockbuster and see more HD-DVD/Blu-Ray disks to rent than DVD disks. I don't see that happening any time soon.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By grampaw on 1/15/2008 12:10:41 PM , Rating: 2
Toshiba does have a point here. I actually ran some tests with conventional Standard Def upscaling DVD players, SONY and Toshiba brands, comparing their upscaling picture against the upscaled picture from both my Toshiba A20 HD-DVD player and my Sony PS3. My conclusion was that the upscaling by the Hi Def players was far superior to the Standard Def upscaling players.

I've posting comments in many forums during the last few weeks that should the HD DVD standard die, I still have an exceptional upscaling player with my Toshiba A20. Wonder if Toshiba Marketing folks stole my idea?


By SavagePotato on 1/15/2008 12:58:25 PM , Rating: 1
The a35 has top notch upscaling arguably second to none. Though it is also close to $300 dollars still for a great upscaling dvd player with support for a dying hd format.

Can't see buying one for that, and the a35 to my knowledge has the best upscaling of all the Toshiba players. The super cheap a3 isn't even an option with it's sub par audio capability.


By Spuke on 1/15/2008 6:29:36 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The super cheap a3 isn't even an option with it's sub par audio capability.
I wouldn't call it subpar but it's technically inferior to the A2. Whether or not you can hear a difference between the two is debatable.


RE: Not sure this new marketing strategy will work
By porkpie on 1/15/2008 1:53:51 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Toshiba does have a point here. I actually ran some tests with conventional Standard Def upscaling DVD players, SONY and Toshiba brands, comparing their upscaling picture against the upscaled picture from both my Toshiba A20 HD-DVD player and my Sony PS3. My conclusion was that the upscaling by the Hi Def players was far superior to the Standard Def upscaling players.
Right. FUD aside, even the low end HD-DVD players upscale on the level of a $1000 Denon unit.


By Spuke on 1/15/2008 6:31:30 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Right. FUD aside, even the low end HD-DVD players upscale on the level of a $1000 Denon unit.
I was actually shocked at how good it was. That feature alone is worth the $98 I paid for my A2.


By burnttoy on 1/17/2008 3:02:14 AM , Rating: 2
Here in Ol' Lunen Taan (London!) there have been a few HD-DVD ads around on the tube from about a month before Christmas but they were hard to spot. Now I'm seeing an increased number offering 200 quid HD-DVD players - even at my local tube which isn't particuarly central. Of course there are many more around Tottenham Court Road which is our own version of Akihabara but, sadly, not as impressive.

I've yet to see a Blu-Ray ad that wasn't also a PS3 ad and even those seem to have dropped off TV now. Possibly because they were dreadful!


Not for Canada
By aos007 on 1/14/2008 10:40:40 PM , Rating: 2
Apparently, the Toshiba is one of the few companies still sticking to 1.5CDN = 1US$. The price of HD A3 is still $350 at at least 3 major retailers (though 2 of them have it on sale for $300 and $250). The lowest priced standalone BluRay player is $400 (and so is PS3). I wonder if this strategy is strictly US only.




RE: Not for Canada
By SavagePotato on 1/14/2008 11:00:21 PM , Rating: 1
The US is the only place they have ever sold. It seems to be the only place they are concerned with. Prices in other countries have never matched the US pricing.

Those huge numbers of 38% of the market they claim are US numbers. The big huge 50% they claim on player sales (as they flipflop whichever the way the wind is blowing on wether they want to include the ps3 or not) predominantly US sales again.

It's the only place hd-dvd has ever had a foothold. This was part of Warners descision to back Blu, the entire rest of the planet.


RE: Not for Canada
By masher2 (blog) on 1/14/2008 11:14:18 PM , Rating: 1
> "Those huge numbers of 38% of the market they claim are US numbers."

No, those are the figures for the entire NA (North American) market.


RE: Not for Canada
By SavagePotato on 1/14/2008 11:30:02 PM , Rating: 2
Riiiiiight, which is about 1% in Canada, and .25% in mexico and the rest of south america.


RE: Not for Canada
By SavagePotato on 1/14/08, Rating: 0
RE: Not for Canada
By masher2 (blog) on 1/15/2008 8:14:08 AM , Rating: 2
> "Riiiiiight, which is about 1% in Canada..."

Oops-- You're off by about a factor of 10. Canada is actually pulling close to 10% of NA Sales.

> "...and the rest of south america. "

Err, since when is "South America" part of North American sales?


RE: Not for Canada
By SavagePotato on 1/15/2008 9:32:40 AM , Rating: 1
I would sincerely doubt canada being 10% of hd-dvd sales.

Using south america was intended to emphasize how miniscule mexico and anything else south of the american border would add up.

I corrected that post already which I guess you gratuitously ignored to get in a dig about it. Wording things properly at 10 pm doesn't always happen.


RE: Not for Canada
By aos007 on 1/15/2008 1:07:05 PM , Rating: 2
Canada sales of anything are usually 10% of US sales - as such is the approximate population ratio. It is possible that HD sales are exception as they would not be spread over the entire population (just the affluent part) but even then I doubt they'd be only 1% of US, especially with economy and jobs being rather good up here last year. There's plenty of construction and oil industry workers making a lot of money and they would certainly be looking to buy big screen HD TVs and likewise some HD players. Our big box stores carry quite a lot of titles in both HD formats and have done so from day 1 and the shelf space has been rapidly growing. I doubt they'd do that if those didn't sell.


RE: Not for Canada
By omnicronx on 1/15/2008 3:13:42 AM , Rating: 2
HD-DVD has sold a lot more stand alone players than BD has. It's only the disc sales drivin up by people with ps3s that have been much higher. Which is why I find WB's decision quite odd, you can't expect the floundering PS3 to keep BD disc sales up. I bet if they had waited another 6 months and HD-DVD standalone sales reached 1 million, disc sales would have been much closer.

As for BD in Canada, Best Buy, which owns Futureshop are the are biggest brick and mortar stores in Canada. Bestbuy also happens to be in bed with Sony. Can't really blame them either, as those 50 inch LCD's must bring in a lot of cash.
Walmart sells $200 HD-DVD players, but thats about it.

I no longer really care though.. have an hd-dvd player, have a ps3 ;)


RE: Not for Canada
By Murst on 1/15/2008 11:47:29 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
HD-DVD has sold a lot more stand alone players than BD has

Got any reference for that? With the latest numbers I seem to remember, if you factor in the 360 drive (which is not a stand alone player), the HD DVD players were slightly outselling the blu-ray players (and we'll exclude the PS3, which can be a stand alone player, unlike the 360 drive - obviously if you factored in the PS3, the comparison would be a joke).

However, without the 360 drive, blu-ray was ahead. I'm wondering where you get the numbers to make such a claim (I could very well be wrong, I just haven't seen anything that would support your statement).

quote:
you can't expect the floundering PS3 to keep BD disc sales up

You do realize that the PS3 is now outselling the 360 by a significant margin (around 30%). Last week it was about 260k PS3s vs 200k 360s. This week it will probably be about 50-100k lower, but I don't see how you can claim the sales of the PS3 are "floundering".


RE: Not for Canada
By cochy on 1/15/2008 12:15:12 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
This week it will probably be about 50-100k lower, but I don't see how you can claim the sales of the PS3 are "floundering".


De facto Sony-bashing.


RE: Not for Canada
By SavagePotato on 1/15/2008 12:15:31 PM , Rating: 1
If anything the sales of the ps3 are skyrocketing. Sales were terrible at the higher price point. The $399 price point saw what was reported as a 300% increase depending on who's numbers you listen to.

What is going to happen when the ps3 hits $349, or $299. Sales are going to go down? right that makes sense.

In overall sales the ps3 is actually comparatively ahead of where the 360 was at the same point in it's lifespan. With 8 more years to go for the ps3 it is far from floundering.


RE: Not for Canada
By cochy on 1/15/2008 12:22:18 PM , Rating: 2
I bought a 40GB version at Christmas.

I'm a technologist, so the choice for me was a simple one between the 360 and PS3. Compared the noisy and poorly designed 360, it wasn't a tough choice. I was just waiting for the price cut.

All I'm missing is Mass Effect but hopefully that will make its way to the PC soon.


RE: Not for Canada
By SavagePotato on 1/15/2008 12:46:53 PM , Rating: 2
If Microsoft ever finishes improving the 360 into what it should be I might be interested in getting one.

Problem is their method of things really sticks in my craw. The first 360s were a noisy failure prone brick that didn't even have hdmi out.

Now they've added hdmi, they've got a cooler quieter processor, these are good steps, but still the wait continues for the die shrink on the video. They have two out of three things I care about being fixed on the 360 covered but still I wouldn't get one without the video shrink.

A friend of mine has a 360 and listening to him talk makes me glad I didn't buy one of the ones they have released so far. His is a first gen noisy rrod'ing unit with no hdmi, now he feels burned that the have these better models with hdmi out. Maybe when they get a model that has everything it should, but then again, this is Microsoft. How far off can the next xbox be? they don't expect their consoles to last 10 years.


RE: Not for Canada
By Murst on 1/15/2008 1:29:24 PM , Rating: 2
To be fair, I don't expect my PS3 to last 10 years either. If it does, then great. But I'll be happy if I get 5-6 years out of it. By then, I do expect to upgrade to the next gen of consoles.

Of course it should go w/o saying that if I only got 1-2 years out of it, I'd be rather upset.


RE: Not for Canada
By cochy on 1/15/2008 12:12:02 PM , Rating: 2
I know you people love to hate Sony, but this war was decided long ago. BD has much larger manufacture support, it's getting more studio support, it has Blockbusters support. It's basically Toshiba vs. the World on this one. Let's call a spade a spade here. Currently adoption rate of both formats is pretty small, wait until prices of both standalone machine are in parity, which will be sooner rather than much later and that will be the end of the line. People will choose BD because of it's superior manufacturing brands and abundance of titles.


RE: Not for Canada
By Spuke on 1/15/2008 5:34:09 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
People will choose BD because of it's superior manufacturing brands and abundance of titles.
Most people can't even spell "superior manufacturing brands" let alone use that as a deciding factor when buying a media player. You could say the Sony brand name as well as the titles (although The Matrix isn't on Bluray yet) are what will decide but since both are a blip on the DVD radar screen, I would hold off on declaring a winner.


No more fanboys or lies please
By madpear on 1/15/2008 1:58:14 AM , Rating: 4
Why is it that all these Blu Ray fanboys respond with "blu ray won go into a whole(sic) hd dvd cuz my ps3 by parents bought me is winz"?

A format war is by no means over when HD DVD sells 40% of the discs, has more standalone players sold by far, and is supported by Toshiba (largest computer drive manufacturer in world) and Microsoft (needs a description?).

Also, what's up with the misinformation rumor propaganda Blu Ray keeps shooting out?
"Paramount and Universal going Blu ray" => Denied
"Paramount has an out clause so they are still going Blu" => Denied
"Microsoft is now thinking Blu" => Denied

If Sony has to resort to false rumor propaganda to win methinks they are not going in the right direction.




RE: No more fanboys or lies please
By Timeless on 1/15/2008 2:44:38 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Why is it that all these Blu Ray fanboys respond with "blu ray won go into a whole(sic) hd dvd cuz my ps3 by parents bought me is winz"?


Because at the start of this so-called "war", HD-DVD fanbois were going off like firecrackers. Go read the article on when Paramount announce they were HD-DVD exclusive.

quote:
A format war is by no means over when HD DVD sells 40% of the discs, has more standalone players sold by far, and is supported by Toshiba (largest computer drive manufacturer in world) and Microsoft (needs a description?).


40% of the discs in North America. In Asia(which is basically just Japan) this war was over. They chose Blu. In Europe, Blu also has stronger support. America is HD-DVD's last stand against Blu-Ray and they're gonna make one hell of a fight. You say HD-DVD has Toshiba and Microsoft. Ok. And just who are those two against anyways? Apple, Dell, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Sharp, Hitachi, Sharp and of course Sony. All are big names. Competition is one-sided here.

quote:
Also, what's up with the misinformation rumor propaganda Blu Ray keeps shooting out?


Blu-Ray isn't capable of spreading anything. It's an inanimate object. If you're talking about the Blu-Ray Association, they got nothing to do with it, but you can bet they're hoping the rumors are true. All the rumors are from outside sources IIRC.

quote:
If Sony has to resort to false rumor propaganda to win methinks they are not going in the right direction.


Again, Sony does not need to spread rumors if they are technically "wiping the floor" with HD-DVD. And of course studios would deny rumors. Universal and Paramount have whole stacks of HD-DVD that are fresh out of the print and ready to be sold. Would they risk potential HD-DVD sales to acknowledge they support Bllu-Ray? No, that would be financial ruin and lost in sales.

Do I think Paramount and Universal are gonna switch support? No. I think this "war" will drag on until the mass market has its say on this when HDTVs become standard. I just hope this "war" doesn't take too long or we might never see the end of it.


RE: No more fanboys or lies please
By masher2 (blog) on 1/15/2008 8:07:52 AM , Rating: 2
> "You say HD-DVD has Toshiba and Microsoft. Ok. And just who are those two against "

HD-DVD is owned by the DVD Forum, a consortion of 195 companies. Right now, the following companies sell HD-DVD players, drives, computers with an HD-DVD drive, or DF players that support HD-DVD:

Toshiba
RCA
NEC
Microsoft
LG
Samsung
HP
Asus
Onkyo
Buffalo Tech
Venturer
Rock
Medion
Vidabox


RE: No more fanboys or lies please
By BigTaylor on 1/15/08, Rating: 0
By masher2 (blog) on 1/15/2008 9:04:13 AM , Rating: 2
Err, Buffalo Tech is a multinational with annual sales of $1.5B, and offices on three continents. They're not Microsoft, but they're certainly not a fly-by-night organization.


RE: No more fanboys or lies please
By rninneman on 1/15/2008 11:12:56 AM , Rating: 2
The reason the DVD forum has so many member companies is because of regular DVD. The majority do not care about HD-DVD. In fact, just about every company behind Blu-Ray, is a member of the DVD forum too.


RE: No more fanboys or lies please
By Spuke on 1/15/2008 6:34:35 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The majority do not care about HD-DVD.
Do you have some interviews with the DVD forum members that you can share with us to back that up? Maybe some statistics?


By rninneman on 1/15/2008 7:50:25 PM , Rating: 2
You HD-DVD fanboys are unbelievable. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that HD-DVD doesn't have the full support of the 195 DVD forum member companies. If it did, Toshiba wouldn't be the only company whole-heartedly backing it. Microsoft's support is half-assed at best and the other 12 companies supposedly selling HD-DVD hardware are insignificant.

By definition, a majority is 50% and right now more than 90% of the members do not support HD-DVD by actually producing product. So I guess the majority of the members do not care enough to release HD-DVD products and perhaps save the format. Although a greater number of companies (which also happen to be DVD forum members) are supporting Blu-Ray.

Get over it; HD-DVD lost.


By SavagePotato on 1/15/2008 11:46:46 AM , Rating: 2
I looked through this whole topic I didn't see anyone say what you just paraphrased.

Hd-dvd at best sold in the 35-38% range on any consistent stretch through 2007, going on Neilsen statistics. It also had lows in the 20's regularily toward the end of the year, look for much much more of the 20's and eventualy 10's in 2008.

Sold, past tense. They have less than 30% of the Hollywood market supporting them now for 2008. It isn't a wild fanboy leap of faith to predict that that number is going to drop like a rock. Real journalists, analysts, are all predicting that. They aren't saying lolz my ps3 that my momz bought won either.

It's a foregone conclusion that if things go as predicted Paramount and Universal will release blu ray as a minumum, dump hd-dvd altogether as a best scenario. Any support changes from either will not be quick to happen when they do. Quite simply it's not an overnight thing to switch formats.

If all hd-dvd has to go on is spin and false hopes it is they that are not going in the right direction. Bad news is thats really all hd-dvd ever had.


Why cant it just end!
By Novaoblivion on 1/14/2008 10:42:46 PM , Rating: 1
I wish HD-DVD would just hurry up and surrender its over already anyway and the sooner they do the better.




RE: Why cant it just end!
By BansheeX on 1/14/08, Rating: -1
RE: Why cant it just end!
By SavagePotato on 1/14/08, Rating: -1
RE: Why cant it just end!
By wallijonn on 1/15/2008 11:48:12 AM , Rating: 2
Okay. HD-DVD is dead. That doesn't mean that everyone is going to go out and buy $400 BD players. People will just allow their TV sets to do the upscaling and up converting. Or they will buy $100 up converting players.

What you are likely to see is the degradation of DVD movies - either movies put out on single discs or a full screen and a wide screen version on the same discs.

To differentiate itself, all extras may go to BD. What you'll get is a DVD sans commentaries, story boards, artwork, many languages, deleted scenes, alternate endings, no director's cuts, no unrated editions. For the Western Hemisphere only English, Spanish and French languages and subtitles. Dump in as many movie trailers as possible. If you want any extras you'll have to buy BD. Otherwise, if the deluxe two disc is $22.98 and the BD is $22.98, then why bother with the DVD version? Likewise, since people aren't willing to pay more than $19.99 for a DVD, then pricing BD at $29.99 won't endear them to the masses. At most BD should be a $5 premium over the standard version. Otherwise, why bother?

To differentiate itself as being superior, the movies studio have to sabotage DVD so that it is clearly seen as inferior.


RE: Why cant it just end!
By SavagePotato on 1/15/2008 12:00:48 PM , Rating: 2
People won't have to buy $400 players. Many of the players shown at CES will debut at $350 even for top of the line 1.1 and 2.0 players. As early as this spring.

By Christmas of this year people will buy blu ray players in the 1-200$ range. Disc prices will drop naturally as demand increases as well. Right now both hd formats are a niche product with lower volume levels and higher than dvd prices for media as well as hardware.

If you think this will always be the same you are mistaken. My first dvd player was $500 and movies were in the $35 range. Sound familiar?

Blu ray will win, the price will drop, and the consumer will pay reasonable prices for it. No matter what the fud spreaders might tell you about hd-dvd being the only format that can ever be affordable.


RE: Why cant it just end!
By sweetsauce on 1/15/2008 6:06:40 PM , Rating: 2
I'll make you a deal. If there are blu-ray players available by the end of 2008 that sell for under $200, i'll purchase a ps3 and give it to charity. No one weekend deals are allowed, it has to be an item anyone can go and purchase. If that happens, you win.

PS. Im not too worried about having to buy a ps3.


RE: Why cant it just end!
By SavagePotato on 1/16/2008 12:55:28 AM , Rating: 2
You should have done some thinking before you made that pledge. The sylvania branded funai player will be debuting at under $300 any time now. Chances of it not managing to drop less than $100 in 12 months are about 0%

Instead of buying a ps3 though, buy a clue. You need it more.


RE: Why cant it just end!
By sweetsauce on 1/17/2008 10:22:02 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
PS. Im not too worried about having to buy a ps3.
Re-quoted for emphasis.


RE: Why cant it just end!
By wallijonn on 1/15/2008 6:06:55 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If you think this will always be the same you are mistaken. My first dvd player was $500 and movies were in the $35 range. Sound familiar?


Yes, early adopters always pay higher freight.

The problem is, "right now" they are higher priced. "Right now" many won't buy them. "Right now" they may be willing to spend $100 to buy up-converting players. A year ago few people were willing to pay $1000 for a BD player. Today, few would be willing to pay $1000 for a BD player. "Right now."

If Sony learned anything it was that when they lowered the price of the PS3 more people purchased them. (Coupled with the lack of Wii availability?)

Price is everything. BOGOs definitely helped.


Data storage and backup
By blowfish on 1/15/2008 8:55:37 AM , Rating: 2
I'm hoping that with more movie studios going over to Blu Ray will cause the HD-DVD camp to drop prices of blank media, as well as players. With a reasonably priced HD-DVD burner, the format could end up as the first choice for backup. If prices were low enough, people would buy into it. Sony, on the other hand, no doubt wish to keep prices high for as long as they can




RE: Data storage and backup
By Murst on 1/15/2008 12:02:04 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Sony, on the other hand, no doubt wish to keep prices high for as long as they can

In every thread about this, someone always states that Sony will keep prices high.

1. Do you realize that Sony, just like Toshiba, receives loyalties from the media being used? Those prices are fixed, and they are a small part of the media price. Sony will not be raising the cost here.

2. Unlike HD-DVD, Blu-Ray players are made by a number of different manufacturers. Even if Sony keeps their Blu-Ray player prices high, Panasonic, Philips, Samsung, and virtually every other manufacturer of Blu-Ray drives will attempt to drop the price as fast as they can. Prices will go down.

3. What incentive would Sony have to keep prices high? They took a huge financial hit on the PS3 because they wanted to get Blu-Ray adopted as the standard. They are looking for loyalties from movies to earn money back on their Blu-Ray investment. If they somehow magically kept prices high, they would make less money since less movies would be sold.

4. Sony does not own Blu-Ray.

So, how exactly do you believe Sony can keep prices high? I just don't see how they could do that even if they wanted to. It is out of their control.


RE: Data storage and backup
By SavagePotato on 1/15/2008 12:30:02 PM , Rating: 2
They can't it's anti Sony fud which is about 98% of the hd-dvd position on dailytech.

When this Warner switch was announced the true fears of hd-dvd backers became more evident than ever in their posts.

Many of them really truly believe that blu ray victory equates to Sony doing a giant evil laugh and mandating that all players are a minimum of $1000, and that disc prices will rise to follow.

Sony doesn't have the power to dictate the market. Competition for blu ray is very present in the multiple CE companies competing for price in their own blu ray players.

They have an argument for everything though, and it's really like herding cats. Give them simple logic such as that and someone will come out and say "but sony will put a giant royalty on everything"

It's just painfully ridiculous at this point.


RE: Data storage and backup
By porkpie on 1/15/2008 1:59:03 PM , Rating: 2
Denying WHY Sony dropped HD-DVD to lead Blu Ray is just as stupid. Sony has said MANY TIMES that BD is better "because it protects the content more". BD-Java means more DRM than HD-DVD. Sony doesn't just admit that, they push it as a selling point.


RE: Data storage and backup
By Murst on 1/15/2008 3:04:28 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Denying WHY Sony dropped HD-DVD to lead Blu Ray is just as stupid

I don't understand what your reply has to do w/ anything. Who is denying anything about why sony dropped HD-DVD?
quote:
BD-Java means more DRM than HD-DVD

BD-Java has about as much to do w/ DRM as C++ with Rootkits. Does that mean you're not going to use anything that uses C++? (Think about that before you press a key on the keyboard or move your mouse)


RE: Data storage and backup
By SavagePotato on 1/16/2008 12:51:54 AM , Rating: 1
Go off on an unrelated topic much?

Yeah people get it, you are deathly afraid of drm. DRM is a selling point, to studios that is. Could have something to do with why 70% of the major studios now back blu ray.

Is drm a waste of time? yes, in pretty much all situations it is. Doesn't stop the serious pirate anyway. In the case of video discs, it also affects me the consumer in no way. I've listened to unholy amounts of bitching about Vista and it's horrible drm which has somehow never managed to do anything horrible to me. In turn I have heard unholy bitching about blu ray and it's evil drm.

Guess what, It's never done anything to hinder me either. It sure as heck is a waste of time in stopping pirates. It is also however a non issue to me in my normal use of any of my media. To the other 99% of the population that want to just put the damn disk in their player and watch it, it isn't either.


My advice: Go Bollywood
By daftrok on 1/14/2008 9:09:32 PM , Rating: 2
Its the obvious solution. There are over a billion people in India and nearly 200 million in Pakistan. Making Bollywood movies HD might give them in edge in Asia.




RE: My advice: Go Bollywood
By FS on 1/14/2008 9:24:34 PM , Rating: 3
How many of them even have a DVD Player. VCD is popular in developing countries and in a few years when HD becomes popular here, I think DVD will become popular there. In other words, they are one whole format behind.


RE: My advice: Go Bollywood
By sxr7171 on 1/14/2008 10:04:43 PM , Rating: 2
You'd be surprised. DVD players are $30 now. Give me a break. India has a strong middle class and people were buying VCRs when they cost over $1000 due to high import duties. You could go to any home in a city in India and find a DVD player today. Now 3 years ago, it was mostly VCD.


Sub$100 DVD players can also upscale!
By EclipsedAurora on 1/15/08, Rating: 0
RE: Sub$100 DVD players can also upscale!
By boogle on 1/15/2008 4:03:14 AM , Rating: 2
Actually the other HD-DVD players have premium quality upscalers: http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63...

They're actually better than most Blu-Ray players at upscaling.


By porkpie on 1/15/2008 8:22:08 AM , Rating: 2
Right. Those HD-DVD players are as good as standard DVD upscalers that cost in the $1000+ range. For $150, you're getting a steal.


There is a second way to win this war...
By neilrieck on 1/15/2008 11:12:27 AM , Rating: 2
There is a second way to win this war: be the first to come out with a reasonably priced hi-def drive for a PC. Intel and Microsoft should be working with Toshiba through the HD-DVD consortium to make this happen. Currently, some people are attempting a work-around by connecting their XBOX HD-DVD players to their PC via the USB port (it comes up as a Toshiba drive by the way). Once these things are common on PCs the battle will be won because many people are really into turning a PC into a living-room multi-media center. On the flip side, I have never heard of anyone connecting a Blu-ray drive to a PC.




By praeses on 1/15/2008 12:23:15 PM , Rating: 2
Although I do not know what you classify as "reasonably" priced, I believe most people with money to spare to build an HD HTPC would just give up and get one that supports both, such as the LG GGC-H20L.


Only 3 percent buy HD movies
By bfellow on 1/15/2008 11:16:37 AM , Rating: 2
If you look at recent reports, over 97% percent of movies/entertainment being purchased is standard DVDs. Obviously tailoring to DVD buyers would be a great strategy since there's that number 97%> 3%




By kilkennycat on 1/15/2008 12:00:39 PM , Rating: 2
My $60 Sony (standard) DVD player has a very nice 108i/720p upscaler with HDMI output. Move on....

However, to truly ensure that HD-DVD remains dead and not re-emerge like the Phoenix from the ashes, it is VITALLY important for the hardware members of the Blu-ray consortium to slash the prices of the current range of stand-alone Bluray players to match those of the HD-DVD group and ASAP. The Bluray group as a whole need to develop the game-console mind-set --- sell the hardware at a significant loss and make money on the software.




By reader1 on 1/15/2008 12:56:35 PM , Rating: 2
...it's "Blu-ray only " vs "Blu-ray and HD-DVD" and "Blu-ray only" will win.

Blu-ray is safe to buy, HD-DVD isn't. That alone will hurt HD-DVD sales significantly.

Also, since Blu-ray has better studio support, it is far more likely that HD-DVD owners will also buy Blu-ray movies and players (or hybrids) than it is for Blu-ray owners to buy HD-DVD products. This means Blu-ray's studios and player manufacturers are under no pressure to support HD-DVD, while Paramount, Universal and Toshiba will be missing out on a large amount of sales by not selling to the "Blu-ray only" consumers.




Heard at Walmart...
By androticus on 1/15/2008 10:50:47 PM , Rating: 2
Customer: "So all I need is this newfangled $98 HD DVD player, take it home, then I rent all these great new HD movies from Blockbuster???"
Clerk: "Uh,... well... no sir, no one is renting HD DVD movies... but over here, we have the wonderful new Sony BluRay player for only $399.98!"

Customer walks away...




By SPOOOK on 1/16/2008 12:58:36 AM , Rating: 2
any hd player must record in hd and have a 1tb hard drive at the least and it must record on dvd as well or i tell everyone to stay away from these lemons they should not even been maken any players they should be making recorder
players with hdd built in




Just die already
By Azsen on 1/14/08, Rating: -1
Standard Def is good enuff, lOLz
By Serafina on 1/15/08, Rating: -1
Blu ray won!
By Serafina on 1/15/08, Rating: -1
RE: Blu ray won!
By jjabrams on 1/15/2008 4:45:28 AM , Rating: 2
congratulations, you just made 15c on your imaginary sony stock


RE: Blu ray won!
By blowfish on 1/15/2008 9:01:28 AM , Rating: 2
Can we quote you on that in a years time?

Hopefully, the winners will be the consumers when Toshiba make HD-DVD hardware and blank media affordable to mainstream users. I couldn't give a flying $%*! that a Blu Ray disc can hold more data - it's the price per gig that interests me more.


Scratching and clawing
By SavagePotato on 1/14/08, Rating: -1
RE: Scratching and clawing
By porkpie on 1/15/2008 8:21:21 AM , Rating: 2
Wow, that's the best example of FUD I've read all week! It should be a case study, really.


RE: Scratching and clawing
By SavagePotato on 1/15/08, Rating: -1
RE: Scratching and clawing
By sweetsauce on 1/15/2008 11:05:30 AM , Rating: 2
The same argument can be made against your precious ps3 stupid. Look in the mirror and read aloud everything you just wrote and everytime you see the word hd-dvd, substitute it for ps3. Wow great argument against ps3 eh fud boy. FUD FUD FUD


RE: Scratching and clawing
By SavagePotato on 1/15/2008 12:22:38 PM , Rating: 1
Right, because I mentioned the ps3 how many times in my post?

Oh look zero times. Get yourself over the f-ing ps3 fanboy angle for christ's sake.

I would like to honestly see one hd-dvd comment that doesn't revolve around hate of the ps3 or Sony.

Get over it, and yourself.


RE: Scratching and clawing
By sweetsauce on 1/15/2008 6:03:36 PM , Rating: 2
Made my comment in haste, let me rephrase it. All the arguments blu fanboys make against hd-dvd can be made against the ps3. So if we go by your arguments, then sony should just leave the gaming industry, and all the development studios should just make next gen games exclusively for the xbox360. Its a ridiculous argument to make on both ends, which is what i was trying to point out. Who cares what formats are out there. Buy the one you like, leave the other alone. I don't buy a ps3 nor will i ever. Doesn't mean sony shouldn't make or sell one.


RE: Scratching and clawing
By SavagePotato on 1/16/2008 1:03:10 AM , Rating: 2
No I'm sorry, comparing video game consoles to movie formats just doesn't cut it.

There is a market for all three game consoles for a simple reason. They offer people different things. People that want to have fat rednecks scream homophobic remarks in their ear for $50 a year while playing sports or fps games have the 360.

People that wanted a blu ray player as well as games including the inevitable ps3 exclusives like gran turismo 5 or god of war 3 got a ps3.

Both customers are getting a different experience that they chose their respective unit for. Some may have chose both, others may have chose the wii for the unique experience it offers.

Blu ray and hd-dvd do nearly the same thing with the exception of blu-rays superiority in doing that thing. In a perfect world both parties would have hugged and made up, and there would have been one format that made everyone happy but thats not how it went. Now one is in the way and reacting in a way that can only at best kill both formats.

Yes hd-dvd needs to get the hell out of the way or we won't have an hd format simple as that.


RE: Scratching and clawing
By sweetsauce on 1/17/2008 10:19:39 AM , Rating: 2
Now i know for a fact you are a fanboy. You really think there was a need for a ps3 with the 360 being out a year ahead and over 75% of next gen games being on both systems? The only thing a ps3 offers gamers right now that the 360 doesn't offer gamers is wi-fi built in and Unreal mods. There is absolutely no need to have both systems in the market. The wii doesn't even need to be mentioned here since it is a completely different system targetting a different market.

Now if you think sony wouldn't do what sega did and just make games for the 360 if the ps3 fails, then you're just retarted.

PS. Blu's "superiority" at doing what HD-DVD does is nowhere near the "superiority" the 360 has over ps3. The 360 is graphically more powerful and easier to program for. Its also more flexible memory-wise. Maybe ps3 should just get the hell out of the way so that i won't need to buy a ps3 to play final fantasy?


RE: Scratching and clawing
By cmdrdredd on 1/17/2008 5:05:00 PM , Rating: 2
sweetsauce, you're just a total retard here. You obviously have no knowledge of the capabilities of either system.

Take Burnout Paradise for example. The games look very similar right, but wait a minute...what is this? The 360 version has slowdown while the PS3 version of the game runs at 60fps all the time.

Don't talk like you know everything about the consoles when you have no working knowledge of them. I have no doubt that the PS3 has more potential, it's just as you said a bit more complicated. Once developers are a bit more used to the hardware the games will look better and better.

Lets hope the 360 gets another 20 shooter games this year right? Since that's the only damn thing it's good for...Halo this, CoD that...it's stupid.


RE: Scratching and clawing
By SavagePotato on 1/20/2008 3:15:27 AM , Rating: 2
Right so the fact that it offers a blu ray player, unique franchises such as gran turismo, and god of war, uncharted, ratchet and clank, etc means everyone should just get a 360 I guess.

Look who's talking about being a fanboy. Get a hardon for the 360 much there tiger? Sounds like you love that thing like your first born.

As a matter of fact, I am primarily and always will be a PC gamer. I haven't owned a console since the sega genesis. As it's turned out there have been quite a few games I've enjoyed on the ps3, which I did buy with the 100% intent of using it for a blu ray player with little to no interest in console gaming at the time. As it turned out there are many interesting games coming out to play on it this year, as well as plenty that I have already enjoyed playing since I got it.

So I guess it's back to the drawing board for you, your fanboy colors couldn't be more blatant. Me I didn't even like console games a year ago.


MS must be really determined..
By lopri on 1/14/08, Rating: -1
RE: MS must be really determined..
By sxr7171 on 1/14/08, Rating: 0
RE: MS must be really determined..
By rninneman on 1/14/2008 10:53:46 PM , Rating: 2
The royalties for VC-1 do not go directly to Microsoft as many people believe. SMPTE required VC-1 to be open-source and open for anyone to implement. The license is even free if less than 100,000 units per year are shipped. The royalties go to the MPEG Licensing Authority which then distributes the money amongst the 15 companies in the VC-1 patent pool which ironically includes Sony.


RE: MS must be really determined..
By sxr7171 on 1/16/2008 12:19:59 AM , Rating: 2
That's pretty nice hear actually. Still I think their DRM is big in their plans.


Stupid, stupid Toshiba....
By sxr7171 on 1/14/08, Rating: -1
RE: Stupid, stupid Toshiba....
By SavagePotato on 1/15/08, Rating: -1
"There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance." -- Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer











botimage
Copyright 2010 DailyTech LLC. - RSS Feed | Advertise | About Us | Ethics | FAQ | Terms, Conditions & Privacy Information | Kristopher Kubicki