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The Toshiba HD-A35 -- the furthest HD DVD hardware will go
R.I.P. HD DVD, March 31, 2006 - February 19, 2008

After days of intense speculation, Toshiba today officially announced that it will exit the HD DVD business. According to the press release, Toshiba decided after a thorough review of its overall strategy it will no longer develop, manufacture and market HD DVD players and recorders.

Toshiba cited the recent changes in market conditions as the impetus behind the firm’s decision, in hopes for a healthier high-definition future. “We carefully assessed the long-term impact of continuing the so-called 'next-generation format war' and concluded that a swift decision will best help the market develop,” said Atsutoshi Nishida, President and CEO of Toshiba Corporation.

The Japanese company, however, said that it still believes in its product and continue to support others behind it. Toshiba will continue to provide full product support and after-sales service for all owners of Toshiba HD DVD products.

Beginning March 2008, Toshiba will begin to reduce shipment of HD DVD hardware to retail channels, with the closing stages of the business expected by the end of the month. The Xbox 360 HD DVD add-on is included in this action.

While HD DVD is usually viewed as a consumer home theatre solution, Toshiba also offers the format as a data storage medium in its notebook computers. Although it’s officially the end of HD DVD for movies, Toshiba said that it has yet to decide on the fate of computer drives and will continue to assess the position of notebook PCs with integrated HD DVD drives.

Toshiba also expressed that it intends to “maintain collaborative relations” with HD DVD partner companies including Universal Studios, Paramount Pictures, DreamWorks Animation, major Japanese and European content providers on the entertainment side, as well as Microsoft, Intel, and HP.

Nishida added, “While we are disappointed for the company and more importantly, for the consumer, the real mass market opportunity for high definition content remains untapped and Toshiba is both able and determined to use our talent, technology and intellectual property to make digital convergence a reality.”

The company made it clear that its decision to dump HD DVD would not impact its current DVD business. Toshiba said that it will continue to market conventional DVD players and recorders, and contribute to the development of the industry, as a member of the DVD Forum – the body behind both HD DVD and regular DVD.

At the official press conference, Nishida answered questions asking if Toshiba would adopt Blu-ray Disc, to which the Toshiba chief replied, “No plans at all, not at this moment,” as recorded by Engadget. The executive also added that the company has no current plans for another next-gen optical disc format.

The official market lifespan of HD DVD will be around two years. The first HD DVD player hit the Japanese market on March 31, 2006 and the last players are expected to disappear by the end of next month.

Nishida revealed the total number of HD DVD player and recorder sales worldwide: 600,000 players in the U.S., 300,000 of which were Xbox 360 HD DVD drives. 100,000 units were sold in Europe, and about 10,000 players and 20,000 recorders in Japan. The total worldwide installed base current sits at 730,000 units.

Oddly enough, official numbers issued by the HD DVD Promotional Group announced following last year’s black Friday weekend that it had sold over 750,000 HD DVD players in North America, raising some eyebrows at the conflicting information.

Those already sold on high-definition movies will either declare this as a great victory or a tragic loss, though keep in mind that even HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc sales combined are barely a drop in the bucket compared to regular DVD. Recent statistics from Zip.ca show that high-definition disc rentals account for 0.87 percent of total shipments.

Retail sales of HD DVD movies also pale against regular DVD numbers. Transformers, a movie surely better appreciated in high-definition, sold 190,000 copies in its first week, leading Paramount to name it “the fastest and best-selling week one release on either high definition format as well as the best selling HD DVD ever.”

Day one sales of the standard definition easily obliterated the high-def alternative, selling 4.5 million, eventually accumulating 8.3 million in the first week.

For now, HD DVD owners may enjoy the flurry of clearance sales happening over the next few weeks, as retailers rid themselves of product. On a practical level, HD DVD movies share near identical characteristics with an equivalent Blu-ray Disc release; and in some cases, the HD DVD release is superior thanks to its more mature support of special features.

HD DVD hardware’s day of playing new software are numbered, with the only major releases left for release are Beowulf, Bee Movie and Sweeney Todd. Looking forward, however, Toshiba pointed out earlier this year that its HD DVD players make great DVD upscalers.



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Well, one good thing now is...
By Trisagion on 2/19/2008 8:45:39 AM , Rating: 5
Maybe Michael Bay will now shut up.




RE: Well, one good thing now is...
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/19/2008 9:18:25 AM , Rating: 5
Hmmmm, don't bet on it. I predict atleast three more outbursts from this clown.

-One in the next day or so declaring that he was right and it's official.

-One complaining that Dreamworks isn't putting Transformers on Blu-Ray anytime soon and is waiting for BR2.0.

-One declaring that now that Transformers is on Blu-Ray how stunning it looks (even though it will look exactly the same as the HD-DVD version, VC-1 FTW?). Maybe they will cram in the audio on a different codec but who knows.


RE: Well, one good thing now is...
By Chiggs on 2/19/2008 10:18:47 AM , Rating: 1
Bitter, bitter tears. On a side note, you should go back and read some of the "predictions" by all The Amazing HD-DVD Kreskins on this site. I started around the Warner Bros, and let me tell you...it's comedy gold.

I hope none of you are analysts or stock brokers, that's all I can say.


RE: Well, one good thing now is...
By Chaser on 2/19/08, Rating: 0
RE: Well, one good thing now is...
By The0ne on 2/19/2008 12:41:51 PM , Rating: 3
You two are actually the two most hilarious posters imo. Discussion on which HD format would win months and even years ago was based primary on one's one view. This is like everything else. Having you two come in after the announcement to claim that you were right (from your statements of course) and everyone else is wrong is ludicrous.

First and foremost, if anyone can truly say BD or HD-DVD is going to win months and months ago, they would be rich. If anyone can predict that PS3 or Xbox or Wii, especially the Wii, was going to be the winner they would be rich via Nintendos' stocks. Can either of you truly say this about other products? Here are some examples;

MMP's
Gaming Consoles
Video Cards
and so on

But making this kind of comments after a decision on discussions on products that were still in the market and competing pretty well, to some extent (consoles for example again) is laughable. Unless you're physic and dumb for not investing in what you've projected to be the winner I say these kind of comments has no place here.


RE: Well, one good thing now is...
By Chiggs on 2/19/08, Rating: -1
RE: Well, one good thing now is...
By hubajube on 2/19/2008 1:25:27 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Oh, and I own a considerable amount of Sony stock. Does that make me less "dumb" in your eyes, brainlord?
I guess saving all that money by living in your Mom's basement has finally paid off.


RE: Well, one good thing now is...
By Chiggs on 2/19/08, Rating: -1
RE: Well, one good thing now is...
By hubajube on 2/19/2008 4:30:39 PM , Rating: 2
If you've read my comments you see I'm no HD DVD fanboy either. But I'm no longer part of the down syndrome camp (down with whoever is winning at the moment aka the bandwagon) that most of you BD AND HD DVD fans are part of. Call it of moment of clarity when I realized that I really didn't care which format is "better". It's just not that important. But I can see how it could important to people like you. That's all you have to look forward to. You're probably suffering from seasonal affective disorder. Those small basement windows don't let in much light. Pull yourself away from WoW, grab a basketball, and get some sun.


RE: Well, one good thing now is...
By Chiggs on 2/19/08, Rating: -1
RE: Well, one good thing now is...
By theapparition on 2/19/2008 8:51:59 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
I'll count all my stock earnings while mother makes mac and cheese.

Considering that Sony is trading close to it's 1 year low, I wouldn't brag too much about your stock.


RE: Well, one good thing now is...
By Chiggs on 2/19/2008 8:57:08 PM , Rating: 3
Hey, he was, in a roundabout sort of way, questioning why the other poster and I even care about this. There are two reasons:

1. I own a Blu-ray player and a substantial amount of discs.
2. I own Sony stock...and it's not some part of a 401k fund, either.

And I really find the "who could have predicted this" comments to be utterly absurd, and especially when they insinuate that predicting such a victory would lead to great wealth. Give me a break....


RE: Well, one good thing now is...
By Chiggs on 2/19/08, Rating: -1
RE: Well, one good thing now is...
By SavagePotato on 2/20/2008 12:50:58 AM , Rating: 2
Rating down of posts just indicates having angered someone who has a bunch of rate down alts. Honestly it's like clockwork if you look you'll probably see the entire first page of your posts all drop in sequential order regardless of the previous ratings of that post. or validity of the statement made.

Theres plenty of them on dailytech. Just take the ratedown sprees as a symbol of their fandom.


By mrteddyears on 2/20/2008 9:44:01 AM , Rating: 2
Why bother replying then you dullard if you get voted down.


By ShadowZERO on 2/25/2008 1:32:50 AM , Rating: 1
Personally I agree with Chiggs here. People rate him down cuz he has a bias towards Blu-ray. So friggin what? He said he owns stock in Sony, if I was making money off investing in a product, I would support them too. That doesn't mean he's a fanboy.

If he wants to gloat his victory over HD-DVD fanboys, let him. Most fanboys deserve to have their losses rubbed in, its good for character.


RE: Well, one good thing now is...
By cochy on 2/19/2008 1:50:20 PM , Rating: 2
In my mind it was pretty clear BD was going win from the beginning. Sony took the most risk. They had a lot to lose on this one and they weren't going to let Toshiba defeat them. They put together stronger manufacturing support, and made the right move with BD in the PS3. This wasn't just another "Proprietary Sony format".


By Oregonian2 on 2/19/2008 2:21:27 PM , Rating: 2
I think you're right that it was a big risk for the PS3 to have the blu-ray disk in it. But compared to Toshiba, Sony had perhaps a bit less risk for the Blu-Ray movie format in that Sony owned a major movie studio whereas Toshiba didn't. Sony was guaranteed movie studio support.


RE: Well, one good thing now is...
By hubajube on 2/19/2008 1:31:59 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Yes it's quite entertaining. All the "just you wait" and all the straw men "new hopes" to read. Too funny.
Hindsight is 20/20. I can make a guess and be right on occasion too. Does that make me Nostradamus?


RE: Well, one good thing now is...
By Chiggs on 2/19/08, Rating: -1
RE: Well, one good thing now is...
By Chiggs on 2/19/08, Rating: -1
RE: Well, one good thing now is...
By MrBungle on 2/19/2008 4:44:06 PM , Rating: 5
Dude, seriously... you're gloating in a tech forum about how you predicted the downfall of HD-DVD. Several posts now about the same thing, as if it matters.

Is anybody else reading his posts in the voice of The Simpson's Comic Book Guy, or is it just me?


RE: Well, one good thing now is...
By Chiggs on 2/19/08, Rating: -1
RE: Well, one good thing now is...
By Chiggs on 2/19/08, Rating: -1
By mrteddyears on 2/20/2008 9:47:06 AM , Rating: 4
There is a village somewhere in the world crying over the loss of its idiot as he is posting on a tech site


RE: Well, one good thing now is...
By hubajube on 2/19/08, Rating: -1
RE: Well, one good thing now is...
By Chiggs on 2/19/08, Rating: -1
RE: Well, one good thing now is...
By SlyNine on 2/19/2008 2:40:25 PM , Rating: 3
Even a stopped clock is right 2 times a day, The thing is. Also everyone is wrong sometimes, Because someone was wrong you clam that they should never make another guess or trust their opinions? Ludicrous I say.


RE: Well, one good thing now is...
By Pythias on 2/20/08, Rating: 0
By modestninja on 2/20/2008 9:11:58 AM , Rating: 2
Judging by the accuracy and insight of most analyst's statements (at least those that get reported) I wouldn't be overly surprised if some of the people making the predictions are industry analyst... I mean usually they are saying something completely obvious or are coming from somewhere in left field.


RE: Well, one good thing now is...
By cubdukat on 2/19/2008 5:48:27 PM , Rating: 2
Sadly, I suspect you're right.

Personally, if Dreamworks were to drop-kick his ass for the next Transformers film, that would not be such a bad thing. IMHO, he doesn't bring anything to the party that any other hack director like, say, Paul W. S. Anderson or (I just threw up in my mouth a little bit) Uwe Boll, couldn't bring. Dreamworks doesn't need Michael Bay; they have the franchise. Of course, that's the same attitude that destroyed the Star Trek franchise...

As far as advanced audio for the Blu-Ray version, Paramount/Dreamworks has really been slack in this area. I think they only have a few TrueHD titles, but on most of them, they only have either DD+ and/or DTS.

Initially I was leaning more towards HD-DVD because of the cheaper hardware, and at the time, many of the titles looked better. But now that Blu-Ray's dumped high-bitrate MPEG-2 for the most part, I find it better looking, if only slightly so. Either way, I don't have much of a choice now, do I?


RE: Well, one good thing now is...
By Belard on 2/19/2008 11:48:43 AM , Rating: 2
Is that possible? That would be a movie on to itself!


RE: Well, one good thing now is...
By Xodus Maximus on 2/19/2008 11:50:43 AM , Rating: 4
another good thing is maybe Dailytech and other blogs will shut up about this, I mean I've been told HD-DVD is dying or dead six times a day for the last few weeks.

Somehow I know a "Fond look back on HD-DVD" article is coming, and you know someone will type up "HD-DVD: What went wrong" soon.


By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/19/2008 12:08:45 PM , Rating: 2
I think Marcus is getting ready to take a baseball bat to both formats given how much he has been writing about them lately :P


Let the sales begin!
By Ramshambo on 2/19/2008 9:21:04 AM , Rating: 5
RE: Let the sales begin!
Great Pic
By JasonMick (blog) on 2/19/2008 8:38:15 AM , Rating: 5
Great picture of walmart there! :o)




RE: Great Pic
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/19/2008 9:03:51 AM , Rating: 2
Yes... I think I've seen that fat lady at Walmart before too...


RE: Great Pic
By eye smite on 2/19/2008 9:05:41 AM , Rating: 4
OMG, it's all you dude. 2 thumbs up, I'm just drinking the first cup of coffee and nearly spewed when I scrolled back up and saw that. Excellent. lol


RE: Great Pic
By Hiawa23 on 2/19/2008 9:41:08 AM , Rating: 2
with all the speculation, this is no surprise, now drop the prices on the standalones & the movies so I can pick em up on the cheap, as the player will make a nice collector's item.


Now watch and learn a thing or two
By Shadowmaster625 on 2/19/2008 2:56:24 PM , Rating: 1
You think that the price of blu-ray players will start coming down? You think the market penetration will start going up? Dont count on it. You're looking at at least 2 more years of highly overpriced blu-ray players, and sub 5% market share, compared to DVD. After this happens (and after I am done saying I told you so) make sure you understand why. It's because blu-ray is an overpriced, heavily subsidized format that doesnt make economic sense, and you cant fool the market. Sony may have been able to fool 10 million suckers into buying their blu-ray player disguised as a gaming console, but it will take years to make blu-ray economical for the masses. Meanwhile, other countries will adopt more sensical hi-def formats, and the US will simply fall further behind in technology. Just like we are behind in cell phones, internet, etc. This is what happens when you allow large corporations to circumvent the laws of free markets with their brute force tactics.

RIP hi-def media.




RE: Now watch and learn a thing or two
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/19/2008 3:07:47 PM , Rating: 2
China is the only country pushing for a different high def format to my knowledge. I can't even remember the name of it now.


RE: Now watch and learn a thing or two
By masher2 (blog) on 2/19/2008 3:13:40 PM , Rating: 1
Its "CH-DVD".


RE: Now watch and learn a thing or two
By Strunf on 2/19/2008 6:31:10 PM , Rating: 2
no no no that is the Swiss one... the Chinese is CN-DVD :D


By mrteddyears on 2/20/2008 9:54:37 AM , Rating: 2
Don’t disagree with you about BD, the SONY lock in but I think you will find that the USA leads the market demand for most consumer products. Fail in the USA and you fail globally normally.

For me I wont buy a HD player until the region locks are taken off, the studio monopoly are taken away and the price are normalised globally.

Looks like I will be listening to radio for a long-time


By Bioniccrackmonk on 2/19/2008 4:36:02 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
You think that the price of blu-ray players will start coming down? You think the market penetration will start going up?


Yes, I do believe the prices will continue going down as time passes along. Smaller, cheaper, more efficient, the golden rule of engineering a product.

quote:
You're looking at at least 2 more years of highly overpriced blu-ray players, and sub 5% market share, compared to DVD.


When DVD's first came out they cost an arm and a leg as well, but as time passed, the prices came down because the manufacturing costs came down, why can't BR follow the same path? Also, in regards to your market share comment, the majority of the world doesn't live a middle class or higher life style, the majority are what I like to call "broke", and if they have to choose between a $30 DVD player or a couple hundred HD player, guess what they are going with.

quote:
After this happens (and after I am done saying I told you so) make sure you understand why.


Now you are just rabbling, rabble, rabble, rabble.

quote:
Sony may have been able to fool 10 million suckers into buying their blu-ray player disguised as a gaming console


Still rabbling, rabble rabble rabble

quote:
Meanwhile, other countries will adopt more sensical hi-def formats, and the US will simply fall further behind in technology. Just like we are behind in cell phones, internet, etc.


Aside from China's own format, what other format is available right now? As far as internet and cell phones go, apparently you don't understand teh size difference of these other countries compared to us. Most of the countries that have better internet and cell phones can fit into some of our states, which is why they can afford to upgrade faster because they don't have as much to cover.

quote:
This is what happens when you allow large corporations to circumvent the laws of free markets with their brute force tactics.


Feel free to move to any country that you think the government has no influence from rich corporations.


Compitition is good.
By DFranch on 2/19/2008 12:12:42 PM , Rating: 2
Everybody should still be thankful to HD DVD you one thing. Without HD DVD Blue ray would still cost $800. There would be no $350 BD players. I still can't figure out how a stand alone DB player can cost $50 less than a PS3. Doesn't seem right to me. still seems the players are a little over priced.




RE: Compitition is good.
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/19/2008 1:06:51 PM , Rating: 3
You also have to remember that Sony is/was heavily subsidizing the PS3, the stand alone players are most likely priced to make back money in profit since the hardware makers get no revenue in the form of software sales.


RE: Compitition is good.
By theapparition on 2/19/2008 9:03:01 PM , Rating: 5
Not only that, but HDi and the HD DVD spec pushed many features that the BDA did not want to include. To this day, the HD DVD spec has always been more complete than BR, which was rushed to market.

Remember, HD DVD had Mandatory Managed Copy, where BR it was optional. Only when threatened by defection by some of the major manufacturers, did BR make it mandatory. So be thankful that the DVD forum was there to push for features that eventually ended up in BR.


HD-A30 as upscaler
By The Irish Patient on 2/19/2008 2:24:53 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Looking forward, however, Toshiba pointed out earlier this year that its HD DVD players make great DVD upscalers.


Great, perhaps, but any better than Blu-Ray players will be?

One retailer claims the HD-A30 is able to upscale SD DVDs to 1080p24 over HDMI, but Blu-Ray players are not.

Putting aside your opinions as to whether such a feature has value, does anyone have any solid information as to whether this is true?




RE: HD-A30 as upscaler
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/19/2008 3:19:13 PM , Rating: 1
Yes my A-30 can and does upscale DVD's to 1080p/24. I have no idea if BR players can do this, or which ones would be able to so I can't comment on the accuracy of that retailer.


RE: HD-A30 as upscaler
By leexgx on 2/19/2008 4:52:41 PM , Rating: 2
thay can (but i find upscaleing is turnd off by default)

PS3 you have to put an disk in the drive and play it , press the green button/options and goto AV and set it to Full upscaleing (this setting is rembered so you not need to do this every time you put an disk in)

HD-dvd is usesless for an storage format as it only offers 6gb more then dvd DL, BR disks start @ 25gb (mute point any way as you can only buy BR readers and buners never seen an HD-dvd reader any where (never an HD-dvd burner)apart form what comes with some tosibas laptops)


RE: HD-A30 as upscaler
By The Irish Patient on 2/20/2008 10:17:47 AM , Rating: 2
Thanks for the info. Toshiba doesn't make the owner's manual for the A30 available online. The manual for the A35 is available, but it is ambiguous as to whether standard definition DVDs can be upscaled to 1080p/24 or just 1080p/60.

I just ordered an A30 from Circuit City based on your reply. They are currently dumping the players for $130 with free shipping, two HD-DVDs in the box, and a rebate for five more. I needed an upscaling player anyway.

In case anyone is interested, Panasonic and Samsung have good manuals available online. Their Blu-Ray players will only upscale Blu-Ray DVDs to 1080p/24. SD DVD is limited to 1080p/60. Sony does not provide any useful documentation at all. So I'm wondering if there is something inherent to the Blu-Ray specification that limits SD DVD upscaling performance.


RE: HD-A30 as upscaler
By SavagePotato on 2/20/2008 10:32:41 AM , Rating: 1
I find it hard to believe at best that someone who has spent the last god knows how long debating on the format war has no idea if a blu ray player can upconvert or not.

How is it you can debate the virtues of one format for such a long time and at this stage of things not know the most base of information such as this?

Were things not over there would be probably 12 people screaming fud over a comment like that. However I have to wonder how can anyone who has followed technology not know this?


RE: HD-A30 as upscaler
By The Irish Patient on 2/21/2008 9:27:15 AM , Rating: 2
Thank you for your reply to a post requesting solid information only.


The best part
By SavagePotato on 2/19/2008 8:52:16 AM , Rating: 5
I like this part of the statement best.

"The Japanese company, however, said that it still believes in it's product and continue to support others behind it."

It's still the best format for the consumer! we're just going ass broke on it! good luck everyone!




RE: The best part
By Belard on 2/19/2008 9:17:56 AM , Rating: 2
Damn! You beat me to it! That is one of the funnest things anyone can say. Just like other HD-DVD press releases "At least Best Buy is still selling our HD-DVD products"...

Who else is supporting HD-DVD? Both Universal and Paramount have no title releases past March. And that was BEFORE Best Buy & Wal mart said no more HD-DVD.

American Gangster is the LAST universal HD-DVD title... coming out today.

Yeah... We believe in our product so much, that we stop making it and promoting it! LOL


HD DVD PRG and Hardware Sales
By bplewis24 on 2/19/2008 12:14:47 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Oddly enough, official numbers issued by the HD DVD Promotional Group announced following last year’s black Friday weekend that it had sold over 750,000 HD DVD players in North America, raising some eyebrows at the conflicting information.


I clearly remember posting in that DT thread about how deceitful the HD DVD PRG was being only to be bashed endlessly and rated down to -1 for every post detailing why that was misleading and possibly even lying.

People had since been claiming over 1,000,000 Stand alones were being sold, let alone HD DVD capable players (=stand alones + 360 add on). Now Toshiba themselves have been forthcoming with the actual figures, showing that stand alones were roughly 430,000 worldwide and add ons at 300,000. Maybe now DT posters will start actually reading what is written rather than shamelessly rating up or down things you do or don't agree with. It was easy to see then that they were full of sh**, and now the truth comes out.

Brandon




By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/19/2008 1:09:35 PM , Rating: 1
People will always rate up/down based on what they like and don't like. Look no further than articles that fall under HD/Blu, Intel/AMD, nVidia/ATI, Windows/Mac, Global Warming/Not, PS3/Xbox/Wii and many others.


RE: HD DVD PRG and Hardware Sales
By nemrod on 2/19/2008 6:28:11 PM , Rating: 2
There is perhaps a mistake in the news:
this news:

quote:
Nishida revealed the total number of HD DVD player and recorder sales worldwide: 600,000 players in the U.S., 300,000 of which were Xbox 360 HD DVD drives. 100,000 units were sold in Europe, and about 10,000 players and 20,000 recorders in Japan. The total worldwide installed base current sits at 730,000 units.


http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/19/live-from-toshi...

quote:
How many HD DVD players and recorders, exactly, did you sell?


But it doesn't matter, war is over...


RE: HD DVD PRG and Hardware Sales
By nemrod on 2/19/2008 6:31:56 PM , Rating: 2
sorry quote mistake, so full quote from engadget:
quote:

Q: How many HD DVD players and recorders, exactly, did you sell?
A: 600,000 players in the US and 300,000 Xbox 360 HD DVD drives. 100,000 units were sold in Europe. And about 10,000 players and 20,000 recorders in Japan. So about 1,030,000 units worldwide.


so when....
By HighWing on 2/19/2008 1:13:15 PM , Rating: 2
and through all this I'm wondering when Paramount and DreamWorks are going to come out and say they are dropping HD-DVD. Because unless I am mistaken, after march there will be no one making the players, yet these studios are still officially supporting HD-DVD only..... or maybe the executives been hiding under a rock for the past few months and have yet to realize they are the only ones supporting a dead format....

Either way I am a bit surprised they haven't made the announcement already, or that any info has been leaked about them making one.




RE: so when....
By cubdukat on 2/19/2008 5:58:44 PM , Rating: 2
I think I read somewhere that if Toshiba dropped the format, any of the members who pledged exclusivity (Paramount, Universal and Weinstein Company) would be immediately released from their obligations.

I don't even think Weinstein was HD-DVD-exclusive. It would be almost impossible for them to be so, given their rental agreement with Blockbuster. Now they can get to releasing "Grindhouse" and "Kill Bill: The Whole Bloody Affair" on Blu-Ray!


When are you going to publish that reversal, Masher?
By J0nsey on 2/19/2008 2:15:42 PM , Rating: 2
Masher posted a blog entry a while back:

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=7163

He said both formats would be around at least a year.

From the comments, he said:

quote:
Better than that-- if a year goes by, and my predictions have turned out false, I'll eat crow and post a lengthy reversal.
But I don't expect this to happen. I'm cautious by nature; my predictions above are a pretty safe bet.


I don't care about the format war; but I do have a vested interest in calling people on their predictions later. :)




By HighWing on 2/19/2008 4:50:03 PM , Rating: 2
While I'm right up there with you on calling people out on things like this, as things stand he's still correct. The entry is dated May 4th, and Toshiba is not planning to end their production till March with the final stages not happening till the end of the month. Which means most likely rolling into April. That being the case it lands him only 1 month less then a year, and you can likely argue that products will still be around for months later. So he might not have been exact, but pretty darn close.


By EglsFly on 2/19/2008 1:03:36 PM , Rating: 3
http://www.homemediamagazine.com/news/html/breakin...

[Posted at the end of the article linked above]

quote:
At least one of the two studios exclusive to HD DVD is already gearing up to join the other team.

"While Universal values the close partnership we have shared with Toshiba, it is time to turn our focus to releasing new and catalog titles on Blu-ray," said Craig Kornblau, president of Universal Studios Home Entertainment.

"The path for widespread adoption of the next-generation platform has finally become clear. Universal will continue its aggressive efforts to broaden awareness for hi-def’s unparalleled offerings in interactivity and connectivity, at an increasingly affordable price. The emergence of a single, high-definition format is cause for consumers, as well as the entire entertainment industry, to celebrate."




so whats the big deal
By Screwballl on 2/19/2008 10:07:06 AM , Rating: 2
Both formats had almost the same options with only 2 degrees of separation. There were a few small differences but otherwise it was a matter of who could convince the movie companies to move to their format over actual functionality.




Finally...
By steelincable on 2/19/2008 12:15:15 PM , Rating: 2
Thank god someone finally conceded, now lets start reducing the prices via economies of scale.




Adieu HD DVD
By Chaser on 2/19/2008 12:28:15 PM , Rating: 2
Savage Potato it's over my friend. after all the FUD, over repeated spin doctoring, and failed resurrection attempts the end has come. :)

kiniku@hotmail.com




Bad
By karielash on 2/19/2008 6:32:35 PM , Rating: 2

It's not a matter of Blu-Ray or HD-DVD, it's a matter of one of the most deceptive companies in recent history having their DRM laden fingers controlling the movie format pie.




What war?
By BenSkywalker on 2/20/2008 3:43:18 AM , Rating: 2
From the time the respective formats were first brought to the consumer market to now HD-DVD was moving about 1K players a day, BRD ~25K. When this era is looked back on, I don't think too many outside of the truly die hard fans will remember much of a format war. HD-DVD was likely the weakest platform in almost every business perspective to ever hit the market. When you are offering 'superior' quality/features at a quarter the price and getting outsold by more then twenty to one something outside of your narrow field of view is obviously tilting the competitive landscape. The faithful have a hard time with exactly what that market reality was, Toshiba seemed to have the same issue.

The good news for consumers, we are looking at a nearly ideal setup for sharp price reductions on media if things continue on their current path. CD and DVD media both should have been less expensive then what they replaced by a decent margin with 18 months of the platforms launching, they never hit this price point because the tie in was too high to consider giving up the insane margins they were raking in. When the initial cost of ramping up BRD production facilities has been covered having a media format with such an incredibly low tie in rate will strongly encourage studios to start moving the prices of their BRD content in line with their existing DVD offerings.

BTW- For the record, LD smacked the taste out of either Beta or VHS's mouth and was the biggest loser in the last war. Technical superiority is almost never an issue in these things, if it was DVD-A would have crushed CDs by now(instead of the rise of mp3). Mass market consumers want good enough and handy to use.




finally over
By rudolphna on 2/20/2008 7:18:28 PM , Rating: 2
I am just glad this format war is over. Blu ray won, HDdvd lost. Good game toshiba. Dont get me wrong, I think Tohsiba did a bang up job with HD DVD, but in the end, Blu-Ray's higher capacity, scratch resistance, and PS3 support won out. We can finally go out and buy a Hi-def player, without worrying about if the money will be wasted. Woohoo! To all you people who are upset about the DRM, dont be. its not so bad. So you cant copy your Hi def movie onto your computer... is that really such a big deal? Can you not get a Blu-ray DVD-ROM drive, or one for your TV? And to the people who think they should both die so that HD downloads can take over, some people dont have the luxury of T1 or OC12 lines that can handle those kinds of downloads. I downloaded a single 18GB file over utorrent last night, it took 12 hours. imagine 40-50 GB for a HD Movie. Not to mention your ISP will probably cut off your service for "Excessive bandwith usage" Comcast limits theirs to about 90GB per payment period. that is 2 movies, and nothing else. Not worth it. Besides, to Optical disks really take up that much room? Not really. Just My opinions.




By EglsFly on 2/21/2008 12:16:01 AM , Rating: 2
Blu-ray and HD DVD support demystified
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/35838/113/

This article (written by Mark Raby of TGDaily.com) was so biased towards trying to convince people that HD-DVD was neck and neck with Blu-Ray it was laughable.
(note: that this was after the Warner announcement)
3 Weeks later, the plug was pulled on HD-DVD by Toshiba.

Fanboy, don't go away mad, just go away...




Hats off!
By AlmostExAMD on 2/21/2008 3:49:53 AM , Rating: 2
Being a Blu ray supporter I take my hat off to Toshiba for now allowing the High def market to truly develop and eventually replace dvd's, I and many others who were holding off buying EITHER format can now go buy a player and movies in confidence, Hell if Toshiba can get a Blu-Ray player on the market fast enough, I'll even buy it as a token off thanks for ending the wars!

Hmmm, If only I had the several thousand for a high def TV to actually enjoy next gen! LOL
Guess it's time to start saving




By docinct on 2/23/2008 12:14:00 PM , Rating: 2
This from a company that can't even mangage to bring SciFi channel into the HD world (unless you watch last seasons' SG-Atlantis and BattleStar on the Universal HD cable channel.
SG-1 was broadcast in UK for several seasons in HD. AND, you can buy season 9 in HD-DVD format.




Movie availability
By docinct on 2/23/2008 12:21:15 PM , Rating: 2
HD-DVDs will be available for a while, just because Toshiba has decided to quit manufacturing doesn't mean everything will disappear overnight.
As to the BD exclusives, check on the 100 plus titles available as imports from Europe. A lot of those are BD exclusives here, but HD-DVD format over there (including some Sony titles).
It was all about marketing and FUD by Sony. I wonder how many PS3s and $600+ players it will take to make up all the money spent bribing studios?

Maybe the Chinese will drop their proprietary format and buy the entire HD licensing and manufacturing from Toshiba and make it the 3rd world standard.




This works for the best.
By Axbattler on 2/24/2008 7:00:33 PM , Rating: 2
Having just one high-definition format that is. The way I saw it, it shouldn't be HD vs BD, but high definition vs DVD. And I think that high definition has a better chance of making progress against DVDs if people didn't have to choose between formats, or fork out extras for a dual-format player. A lot of people (including myself) simply did not want end up choosing the wrong high-definition format and that probably affected the growth of sales of high definition movies.




I wonder...
By elmikethemike on 2/19/2008 8:55:34 PM , Rating: 1
I wonder how many 360 and HD DVD fanboys will cry themselves to sleep the next coming nights??

I'm sure many will....maybe not as many as the number of RRoD 360's...but many.

lawl




VICTORY!!!
By powerincarnate on 2/19/08, Rating: 0
Blu-ray is better.
By reader1 on 2/19/08, Rating: -1
RE: Blu-ray is better.
By oab on 2/19/2008 8:52:08 AM , Rating: 1
It's easy for a format to survive without pixar/disney, if they had all the other studios on their side. One being the "adult" format, and one being the "kiddie" one. That sounds like Sony/MS vs. Nintendo in the console market actually, though the home audio/video one does not stand wars very well.

However, once Sony got off of their collective asses and started marketing the PS3 as a Blu-Ray player (and it's still the best Blu-ray player, because it is the only one on the market that will be upgraded to support the upcoming BD2.0 profile), the 'war' was a lot closer.

I'm sad to see HD-DVD go, I didn't invest in it, but I preferred that format. Sony's arrogance put me off of Blu-Ray, plus, HD-DVD had the 'requirement' that consumers be allowed to get a backup copy of the disk in case of damage or loss, something that Blu-Ray didn't have (though you may have needed to pay a fee for the replacement disk and provide a copy of the original POP).

Blu-Rays only advantage was it stored more information per layer, and it was in the PS3, and the parent company that marketed it also owned a movie studio. That and they bought Warners exclusivity for $650m.

At least Toshiba threw in the towel early instead of loosing millions upon millions in a long drawn-out war.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By psypher on 2/19/2008 8:55:09 AM , Rating: 5
I still have never seen any proof that sony paid off warner. Where the hell do you get that? $650m is quite a bit of cash for a company to hide.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By killerroach on 2/19/2008 9:28:23 AM , Rating: 2
Other than that both Warner and Sony both deny such an arrangement. Usually one doesn't have to get much financial enticement to drop a format that, odds are, they were losing money on.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By chick0n on 2/19/08, Rating: -1
RE: Blu-ray is better.
By Optimizer on 2/19/2008 10:46:23 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Blu-Ray won because its a better format. Simple as that.


One word, "BETAMAX".


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By SavagePotato on 2/19/08, Rating: 0
RE: Blu-ray is better.
By Optimizer on 2/19/2008 11:13:47 AM , Rating: 1
The point is that it's not always about "quality" or "better".


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By SavagePotato on 2/19/2008 11:48:28 AM , Rating: 1
Yes it's always about better. What point is defined as better is the only thing that changes. VHS won because it had "better" run time.

Blu ray won because it had better sales, better features for the studios, better CE company support, mainly. Better capacity and better bitrates were a part of that too.

People thought cheap was the feature that would be defined as "better" they were wrong.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By TheDoc9 on 2/19/2008 11:51:19 AM , Rating: 2
So for you, it's about price. Is that what you're saying. For me it's about quality and performance.

One word - Ferrari.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/19/2008 12:09:42 PM , Rating: 3
A vehicle that has to be better maintained than I do is not what I would call quality. See: Ferrari.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By theapparition on 2/19/2008 9:09:41 PM , Rating: 2
Ferrari's have horrible quality and require maintenance that you wouldn't believe.

I almost bought a F40 a few months ago since I've always been in love with the car from the late 80's. After driving it and a new 360 Modena, I'll stick with what I have. Amazing track cars, but on the street.......


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By Optimizer on 2/21/2008 1:18:25 PM , Rating: 1
The basis of his argument was that BR won because it was a better format. It may have been a factor but I don't think that it was the main reason. The parallel I drew between BETA vs VHS and BR vs HDDVD had less to do with detailed specifications or price points and more to do with the human behaviour or psychology that leads to "holy wars" ("My god has a bigger dick than your god", for all the George Carlin fans out there). The point is that people don't always act in a logical and rational manner (e.g. rating down other people's thought provoking posts instead of actually THINKING).

That being said, I'm glad the format war is over and my personal preference is for anything that moves along the broad adoption of 1080p. That's my "better" and it may be just as irrational as anything else.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By Optimizer on 2/22/2008 3:11:30 PM , Rating: 2
I rest my case :þ


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By Aikouka on 2/19/2008 11:22:39 AM , Rating: 2
Visual quality differences are negligible not to mention early Blu-Ray movies that were encoded in MPEG2 look like poorly upscaled DVDs (unfortunately I bought some of said BR movies without realizing that they were MPEG2 :(). For me, and I'm not sure how many others, the lack of PCM audio is not even a big deal. My receiver doesn't support it so it never affected me.

So really... there was no quality difference in my case (as I do own both), but for me, I personally liked the lack of region codes, which I see as a pro-consumer move. I also preferred the fact that HD-DVD released with a finalized specification and isn't going into its second revision (2.0) such as Blu-Ray is now. Although, from what I've been told, 1.1 is the required specification where 2.0 is recommended.

I think I said this before, but to me... there really were no glaring differences. Oh well, at least I get an external optical drive out of it ;).


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By darkpuppet on 2/19/2008 10:56:09 AM , Rating: 2
Blue Ray is nothing like Betamax. The only thing Betamax had was superior image quality.

Betamax could only record an hour of video and cost $15 - $20/blank tape, and in a market aimed squarely at those taping shows off of TV and cable, beta was a severely limited technology.

Compared to the much cheaper, and higher capacity of VHS, would anyone care that the image quality wasn't as high? (especially those who recorded their programs on extended play to get 6 hours of video on the VHS)?

in the end, beta lost for those reasons... and this current war is -- errrr, was -- only remotely comparable.

Beta vs VHS was the war to record shows. Once the copyright issues were dealt with, it was about the cheapest cost and greatest flexibility to the customer.

BR vs HD DVD would be won on content -- who could sell the most movies and players for the format.

In this case, BR won.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By Screwballl on 2/19/2008 11:30:19 AM , Rating: 2
remember, most of the early VHS tapes also only ran 1-2 hours as well but at a lower quality. If they would have given Betamax more time, it could have had longer run times as well but most of the movie companies jumped to VHS very early which doomed Betamax. They killed betamax prematurely


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By SavagePotato on 2/19/2008 11:45:10 AM , Rating: 1
Betamax did correct the run time issue toward the end by compromising quality finally if I am not mistaken, which was too little too late to save the format.

Premature is kind of an incorrect term considering the vhs beta war raged 10 years. The blu-ray hd-dvd war was the operation desert storm to vhs / betas world war 2.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By Chaser on 2/19/2008 12:19:58 PM , Rating: 1
Second word. Join us in the 21st century. Thank you.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By eye smite on 2/19/2008 10:49:46 AM , Rating: 4
Hehe, somebody has a butt fetish. I wonder if he has Blu-Ray stamped on his butt in font size 72. lol


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By FITCamaro on 2/19/2008 11:11:03 AM , Rating: 2
Other than disc space, how is Blu-ray a better format for movies? As a data storage and backup medium, yes its clearly superior. For movies, it doesn't really have an edge other than that maybe the studios would have to put everything on two discs instead of one with HD-DVD. Something that from a sales perspective is preferable anyway since that way you can charge more for the special edition with all the extras on the second disc.

I preferred HD-DVD because it was more consumer friendly. Not more Sony and MPAA friendly. Both supported all the same stuff as far as content. But HD-DVD had less DRM and has been finalized since release while Blu-ray still isn't even done. Players meeting the 2.0 spec to bring its required features on par with HD-DVD aren't even in stores yet. Why do I want to buy a player when all the features aren't supported yet?


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By SavagePotato on 2/19/2008 11:21:23 AM , Rating: 2
Not having to put things on two discs is a big edge, that's what killed betamax. It isn't near the cost or space issue it was with tapes, however it's a major convenience factor for the customer as well as cheaper and easier for the manufacturer.

Within weeks you will have the option to buy a player with everything. Lamenting who was more complete first or who you like better isn't going to play your movies for you.

But a sub $400 panasonic dmp-bd50 will.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By Belard on 2/19/2008 12:02:24 PM , Rating: 1
jeez! Can you HD-DVD fanatics say anything else?! The Profiles have been finished for quite a while. This is SIMPLE. Profile 1.1 (updated)called "Bonus View" is the same as Profile 2.0 "BD-Live" except for internet intractive junk. Some people like myself may not WANT an internet connection to my player.

Toshiba has several Firmware updates to fix compatiblity issues with discs.

Each disc or layer cost money. Yeah, having almost double the storage space is a cost advantage. 30GB vs 50GB.

HD-DVD was user friendly? Sure, turn it off in the middle of a movie and turn it back on and see where it starts off at... hmmmm. And wrong about the DRM, both formats have about the same DRM. HD-Downloads have tons of DRM, limited to 1-2 devices... oops if one device fails your screwed.

So far, what little I've seen of both sides... of interactivity - I just want to play the damn movie and watch my extras. Don't need to play some stupid game.

Blu-Ray is older than HD-DVD, hence the release of ther Burner drives and media was quite quick.

It doesn't matter... you'll buy perhaps a Toshiba Blu-Ray player and be happy, k? Or not.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By reader1 on 2/19/2008 12:10:41 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I preferred HD-DVD because it was more consumer friendly. Not more Sony and MPAA friendly.


That's why I never liked HD-DVD. Way too much paranoia.

You guys really screwed yourselves by ranting and screaming about something as trivial as a movie format. Master Kenobi and masher2 both sound like sandwich board wearing, internet crusaders trying to save the little people. It's so patronizing.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By hubajube on 2/19/2008 2:23:25 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
That's why I never liked HD-DVD. Way too much paranoia.
What does a movie format have to do with paranoia?


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By AstroCreep on 2/19/2008 1:05:15 PM , Rating: 2
How is it a better format? Look at all of the reviews out there where "Experts" say the differences (one way or the other) are minute.

Also, go ahead and look up some of the crap about BD+ and the the BD-Java subsystem; not only are there potential privacy/copy-protection issues, but it's another Rootkit Fiasco waiting to happen...


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/19/2008 1:13:37 PM , Rating: 2
BD-Java will be ok since its just a programming framework. BD+ on the other hand yea, it is another rootkit fiasco. Hopefully few studios will choose to employ BD+


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By Chaser on 2/19/2008 12:03:12 PM , Rating: 2
Waaaa. Who cares who paid whom? I'm sure the HD DVD camp provided monetary incentives for it's partners too. I could care less about some personal vendetta someone has with Sony. That's the point of this entire FUD fest by so many on here. "I don't like Sony! Waaaaa!"

This isn't Ford versus Chevy here. Wise up!


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/19/2008 1:03:29 PM , Rating: 2
Chevy FTW obviously.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By therealnickdanger on 2/19/2008 8:57:39 AM , Rating: 2
I'm happy I went purple a while ago. Too bad my player isn't 2.0 compatible and never will be, but oh well. I only care about watching the movies, not special features.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/19/08, Rating: 0
RE: Blu-ray is better.
By SavagePotato on 2/19/2008 9:26:32 AM , Rating: 2
I believe there is in Europe if reports that the Panasonic BD50 is selling there are true.

Even so it will be available any time now in north america, and it has everything and the kitchen sink for under $400. Even dts-ma decoding.

For anyone wanting a player with everything there will be no excuse to ignore the panasonic.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/19/2008 9:39:27 AM , Rating: 2
Excellent. I'm busy at work but would you mind throwing a link on the specs for this lovely machine? Tax rebate should be back in a week or so and I don't mind dropping less than $400 on a BR2.0 player.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By Hiawa23 on 2/19/2008 9:46:31 AM , Rating: 2
Many still believe Sony used their Sony Pictures power, & other leverages they have to get most of the studios backing BR. Glad it's over, officially..


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/19/2008 9:57:09 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Many still believe Sony used their Sony Pictures power, & other leverages they have to get most of the studios backing BR.

Of this there is no doubt. No better method of pushing a format than putting your movies on it, putting out the hardware yourself, and paying for marketing. Toshiba's major problem was they were and are a hardware manufacturer. Without their own inhouse movie studio to cram it down the market's throat they were at a disadvantage. Without Sony's own movie studio and game console, they would have been in no better position to promote a format. Sometimes it pays to keep it all in house rather than spin it off.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/19/2008 10:17:32 AM , Rating: 2
I checked out the specs on the Panasonic BD50. Excellent piece of hardware, exactly what I'm looking for. No word yet on pricing though. Rumors say March 1st we should see it officially launch in N.America. I will wait until then.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By SavagePotato on 2/19/2008 10:25:38 AM , Rating: 2
All reports and speculations have been under $400, some even as low as $350. I wouldn't expect it to be over $400 and it should be out any time. The player is loaded so to speak.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/19/2008 10:30:55 AM , Rating: 2
Yea, It's loaded. $350-$400 is a little steep but given the fact that this player is indeed loaded I think it's worth it. I will be keeping an eye out for it on amazon.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By Belard on 2/19/2008 12:07:21 PM , Rating: 2
Hey.... here is a nice and easy STAT list on hardware. But they also have stats on various mastering on the BR and HD-dvd titles.

http://www.blu-rayhardware.info/index.php

I really like the panasonic design.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/19/2008 12:16:48 PM , Rating: 2
Excellent weblink. Damn the Panasonic BD50 is more loaded than any other BD player currently on that list. Yea, I like the panasonic design too. It will go nicely with my other equipment. Excellent suggestion on the DMP-BD50.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By Belard on 2/20/2008 5:09:13 AM , Rating: 2
How about this link...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=94...

You can download a PDF version of movie releases. That other link has TECHNICAL info on movies... I wonder how far that site will go? A few hundred is easy enough, but what happens after a few thousand titles ;)

BTW: I talked to a FRY's sales man. He says that for the past few months, all their staff who buys HiDef have been buying blu-Ray players. We both laugh about "People who spend $5000 on a 60" TV do not blink at buying a $400 player that goes with it" (Panasonic, Sony, Sharp)


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By darkpuppet on 2/19/2008 10:47:47 AM , Rating: 2
how come the PS3 doesn't count as a BR2.0 player?


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/19/2008 10:59:48 AM , Rating: 3
Sorry, I want a normal looking movie player, not a george foreman grill. A george foreman grill just wouldn't look very good with the rest of my setup.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By encryptkeeper on 2/19/2008 11:33:19 AM , Rating: 2
http://uneasysilence.com/media/2006/11/pic_00116.j...

The new titles for this month are God of Italian Sausage, Kingdom Hearts Kabobs and GTA Grilled Salmon City.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/19/2008 11:37:00 AM , Rating: 2
I'm not a console gamer :(. My only system capable of gaming is my PC.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By encryptkeeper on 2/19/2008 12:14:35 PM , Rating: 2
By choice or by budget?

I'm fortunate enough to have both PC and console gaming, and I've been on a Fire Emblem binge for the last few weeks (Radiant Dawn, Sacred Stones, got the translated ROM on the PC for Sword of Seals, and I think I'll try and get the other 5 games if I can find translation patches).


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/19/2008 12:19:54 PM , Rating: 2
By choice. It would be cheaper to invest in an X360 and game there instead of on the PC, but I enjoy FPS and RTS games (WC3TFT sucks up most of my game time) a lot and well, consoles just aren't the same.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By SavagePotato on 2/19/2008 12:27:58 PM , Rating: 1
Theres a third factor.

Time.

I have a ps3 and a pc, I don't have time to play all the games I have for both. Still haven't finished Uncharted.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By encryptkeeper on 2/19/2008 2:15:30 PM , Rating: 1
LOL true. I have so much stuff I don't play anymore, and it's just time that limits it. It can take me a month and a half to beat something because I just don't have time to play much. I'll switch gears a lot too, like a few months ago I played MGS The Twin Snakes, then MGS2 and then 3.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By Belard on 2/19/2008 12:39:56 PM , Rating: 2
To count as a 2.0 Player, it will need to allocate 1GB of RAM for internet content... for the most part, since its a 1.1 player, it has the networking and but only has 256mb of system RAM. But it has a hard-drive, which could be a work around for a 2.0 compatible or something.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By ArneBjarne on 2/19/2008 12:57:32 PM , Rating: 3
You are wrong, RAM has nothing to do with it.

The profiles mandate 256MB/1GB persistent memory respectively. RAM is obviously not persistent, the hard drive is.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By Belard on 2/20/2008 12:32:33 AM , Rating: 2
I was going by the SPEC sheet on Profile 2.0, it said memory storage, not HD. And as I said, it SHOULD still be within spec - so the PS3 SHOULD be able to qualify as a 2.0 Device.

I do think thou, BD-LIVE is a better name than 2.0 as many people (HD-DVD) seems to think that 1.1 is out-dated or 1.0 can't play future discs - yadda yadda.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By kellehair on 2/19/2008 11:46:20 AM , Rating: 2
If the PS3 didn't count HD-DVD wouldn't be dead right now. Don't be such a sore loser. What does BR2.0 matter anyway? BD won without it so it obviously isn't that important.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/19/2008 12:05:41 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If the PS3 didn't count HD-DVD wouldn't be dead right now.

PS3 is a console that can play movies. You can have a george foreman grill sitting on your home theatre if you want, but I prefer a traditional player. I think it just looks better.

quote:
Don't be such a sore loser. What does BR2.0 matter anyway?

It is if I want the same functionality I enjoyed on my HD-DVD player. So I see BR2.0 as an equal trade off.

quote:
BD won without it so it obviously isn't that important.

Not right this second, but it will be by the end of the year. Why buy a player now that's only 1.1 knowing that I will have to replace the damn thing in a year or two to enjoy new stuff on the 2.0 movies which will be out soon. That makes no sense.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By MAIA on 2/19/2008 10:19:35 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
That's all I needed to predict Blu-ray would win. Wasn't hard at all.


Piece of cake. Yeah sure whatever ...

Anyway, it all resembles the BetaMax/VHS war. Beta had indeed the best format but it lost to VHS. The winner takes it all ...


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By reader1 on 2/19/2008 11:17:28 AM , Rating: 2
Many people kept bringing up the fact that Beta was better and lost. By saying Blu-ray would end up the same, they unintentionally promoted Blu-ray as the better format.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By slacker57 on 2/19/2008 12:07:07 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
25GB/layer
Pixar/Disney
PS3

That's all I needed to predict Blu-ray would win. Wasn't hard at all.


Somebody go tell Michael Bay. He needs to sign you up as his assistant. With your mighty braintrust at the helm, we might fianlly see the long awaited masterpiece Pearl Harbor 2!


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By geddarkstorm on 2/19/2008 12:26:14 PM , Rating: 2
Pearl Harbor 2: Judgment Day. Just when you thought the Japanese wouldn't be back... it happened.

Eh, what am I saying. Shouldn't give them ideas.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By sgtdisturbed47 on 2/19/2008 12:26:04 PM , Rating: 1
Having Disney/Pixar behind the format isn't doing anything. The media capacity, quality, and security is what brought it to where it is today. Having it built-in to the PS3 is a bit of a help, but standalone players will perform better when playing BD movies (60 FPS on the PS3 vs the unmucked-with 24 FPS on the standalone players. Causes issues).

Well, as I said in the other Toshiba/HD DVD-related article, having Toshiba drop the HD DVD format doesn't mean the format itself is going to die right away. Their HD DVD players are dead, but not the format. Once the format is dropped from every brick-and-mortar store and online retailer, THEN we can say the format is dead.

There are still HD DVD players in stock at many online retailers, and many more in warehouses. Those will get sold, and lots of others will get re-sold.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By wempa on 2/19/2008 12:37:05 PM , Rating: 2
I'm also curious about if they will support recordable media. That would be pretty interesting, especially since you could rip movies from Blu-Ray onto HD-DVD and then play them on an HD-DVD player. I could see an underground scene forming around just that. Of course, there wouldn't be much money in it for Toshiba, so I doubt that would happen.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/19/2008 12:41:54 PM , Rating: 2
Given the differences between HDi and BD-Java I'm not sure you could change the medium and have it still work. Technical specs would dictate otherwise.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By Visual on 2/28/2008 11:28:43 AM , Rating: 2
It'd not be 1:1 cloning, it will be like, re-authoring or something.
No reason it can't work. At the very worst case, you'd lose the fancy menus, but i'm sure even that can be worked out with good authoring software.

But there's still the fact that there aren't HD-DVD burner drives for the PC, while there are such bly-ray drives - including blu-ray burner/hd-dvd reader combos.
Also, going from the 50GB BD to 30GB HDDVD will require a significant re-compression.

This all makes copying blu-ray movies on hddvd very unlikely, while the reverse is quite possible.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By ArneBjarne on 2/19/2008 1:44:04 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Having it built-in to the PS3 is a bit of a help, but standalone players will perform better when playing BD movies (60 FPS on the PS3 vs the unmucked-with 24 FPS on the standalone players. Causes issues).


The PS3 supports 24 fps output, so you are wrong.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By cubdukat on 2/19/2008 5:52:06 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly. I think they're still obligated to offer support for the format for at least another three years.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By cyberserf on 2/20/2008 2:52:56 AM , Rating: 2
why is Toshiba giving up?
its not like either format has more then 1% market share compared to DVD
anything can happen. I think Toshiba should have stayed in the game. Who wants to pay $400+ for a player when a similar hd hdvd player can be had for $100 and quality is same?
just doesn't make sense.
also why do we care which format wins? if you haven't noticed these corporations duking it out means great deals for us.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By Pythias on 2/20/2008 9:12:12 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
also why do we care which format wins?


Its a tech site.


RE: Blu-ray is better.
By kondor999 on 2/20/2008 11:41:41 PM , Rating: 2
I'm happy Blu-Ray won, just because it happens to validate my own buying preferences of late. I've got the XBOX add-on HDDVD and a PS3, but I found myself "holding out" for the Blu-Ray version of a film for reasons I can't really explain.

I guess that Blu-Ray always seemed to have more tech cache'(too lazy to go find the proper French letter - sorry).

But I'm not going to sit here and say that it was logical. Blu-Ray, as a brand, just *seemed* sexier.

Maybe it all came down to that, eventually.


Blu-ray won! Sony won!
By IntelGirl on 2/19/08, Rating: -1
RE: Blu-ray won! Sony won!
By BruceLeet on 2/19/2008 11:11:45 AM , Rating: 5
I rated you to 0 just so I can post and have it taken away


VICTORY
By psypher on 2/19/08, Rating: -1
"Vista runs on Atom ... It's just no one uses it". -- Intel CEO Paul Otellini














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