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Gadgets Time Warner Says No TiVos
Tuan Nguyen (Blog) - July 28, 2006 2:30 PM
Print 28 comment(s) - last by mindless1.. on Jul 31 at 1:01 AM
TW says CableCARDS can only be used in TV sets

An email response from a Time Warner representative has indicated to a user that TW is under no obligation to support TiVo devices and at the current time, TW will not support TiVo devices on its network. According to TW, TiVo devices harm the TW business and the company would rather users use CableCARDs with TV sets that are ready to accept them. The news of this response follows TiVo's recent announcement that its Series3 dual CableCARD DVR will be ready to ship soon. However, the email from TW said:

As Time Warner's email response indicated, TIVO devices compete with some of the converters and/or "on-demand" type services they provide. Like all other businesses, video service providers are under no obligation to assist or support their competition. I'm sure they feel that placing cards in televisions will help their business, and that placing them in TIVO type devices will harm their business.

Despite the lack of support for TiVo devices, customers are still requesting for support. Analysts indicated that many networks feel that DVRs hurt advertising revenue. In response to this, TiVo recently announced that it will perform a long-term study into TV ads and how TiVo users respond to ads, whether they skip or watch them.

With the new ad studying division, TiVo hopes to sign on major advertising agencies and promote interest among network providers. A number of companies have already expressed interest in TiVo's new study, and include Universal Pictures and McDonald's as well as others.

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Show of hands
By Squidward on 7/28/2006 2:41:45 PM , Rating: 2
How many people watch the commercials on a program you recorded earlier?

Somehow I feel that Tivo's report will respond more favorably to advertisers than what is reality.





RE: Show of hands
By GoatMonkey on 7/28/2006 3:14:26 PM , Rating: 5
I don't even watch commercials on live TV. That's the time for a run to the kitchen or bathroom. TiVo has nothing to do with it.


RE: Show of hands
By sonoran on 7/28/2006 4:23:23 PM , Rating: 2
Not surprisingly, most of the time I'm fast-forwarding through those commercials. However - there have been instances where I was interested in the product or service offered, and I used the DVR to go back and look at the commercial more closely and carefully. Rare, but it does happen.


RE: Show of hands
By ElJefe69 on 7/29/2006 12:58:26 PM , Rating: 2
Lol ! yes! I have done this as well. Sometimes, you ACTUALLY want to buy something and you rewind. OR a preview for a movie or show that you ACTUALLY would want to see.

advertisers are retarded and believe they can brainwash people. Consumerism and retarded levels of selfishness and childlike desire to consume are engendered by parents. They will buy your crap anyways, sight unseen.


RE: Show of hands
By Quake on 7/30/2006 3:12:20 AM , Rating: 2
I record the shows in the old fashion way: VCR. And I don't see the commercials. Instead of watching a one hour show, it becomes 40 minutes.


Under no obligation?
By rhinohide on 7/28/2006 2:53:57 PM , Rating: 2
quote: "Like all other businesses, video service providers are under no obligation to assist or support their competition."

*ahem*- - Unless you are Microsoft.

If you ARE Microsoft, you will be compelled by government agencies to assist and support your competitors as well as comply with any ridiculous requirements that they might dream up. Oh yes, at your expense.




RE: Under no obligation?
By therealnickdanger on 7/28/2006 2:59:29 PM , Rating: 2
Everyone is out for #1. Everyone wants a slice of the pie others tell them they deserve, but didn't earn. Sad. I think Microsoft handles it well, though. Whoever said money can't solve your problems was not rich.


RE: Under no obligation?
By Wolfpup on 7/29/2006 8:13:11 PM , Rating: 2
You're defending MICROSOFT?!? They were found to be a MONOPOLY, and then the Bush regime refused to do anything about it. Geez. If the government dosen't step in to protect us, who will?


RE: Under no obligation?
By Xenoid on 7/30/2006 3:53:57 AM , Rating: 2
Government has no place in business
MS is publicly traded and therefore, was made a "monopoly" by the public. If they weren't keeping up to our standards, they wouldn't be making a profit. Because MS does a good job at what it does (what you want me to use a MAC?), they get our monies.

FYI, in the MS vs EU scandals, if I were in the position at MS, I would tell them to suck it down. If they could even stop MS products from being sold in the EU, EU business owners would shit up a storm due to not having the latest and greatest MS software.

Either way, what the public wants will win, not a communist government.


Real Reason - Content/Commercials
By TomZ on 7/28/2006 2:57:14 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
TIVO devices compete with some of the converters and/or "on-demand" type services they provide.

I call bullshit. The real reason for this "war against TiVo" is that Time-Warner is also a large provider of commercial network TV and thus relies on income from TV commercials. Here is a list of channels they own that carry paid TV advertistments (see below).

I have no problem with profit; but I do have a problem with companies lying and/or trying to hide their true motives and objectives.

Question: If Time-Warner has monopoly power in some markets in terms of being the only available cable TV provider, does this make actions like this one illegal?

CNN
CNN International
CNN en Espanol
CNN Headline News
CNN Airport Network
CNN fn
CNN Radio
CNN Interactive
Court TV (with Liberty Media)
The WB Television Network
TBS Superstation
Turner Network Television (TNT)
Turner South
Cartoon Network
Turner Classic Movies
Cartoon Network in Europe
Cartoon Network in Latin America
TNT & Cartoon Network in Asia/Pacific

Source: http://www.cjr.org/tools/owners/timewarner.asp




RE: Real Reason - Content/Commercials
By michal1980 on 7/28/06, Rating: -1
RE: Real Reason - Content/Commercials
By GoatMonkey on 7/28/2006 3:19:32 PM , Rating: 2
That would make sense if the cable company had refused to connect my VCR years ago.


By Homerboy on 7/28/2006 3:30:32 PM , Rating: 2
no it makes perfect sense. TW didn't offer VCRs for lease years ago. They did not have a competing product. Now they do. TW's leased PVRs are a DIRECT competitor to TiVO's offerings and therefore TW doesn't want to support it.


TWC DVR boxes are terrible
By Staples on 7/28/2006 3:18:46 PM , Rating: 2
I'd much rather use a TIVO if the series 3 ever comes out. This news kind of sucks but no worse than the supposed prices of the series 3 boxes. $1000 to buy an $20 a month. Even if TWC didn't mind the TIVO boxes, their ridiculous prices will hurt them a lot more than TWC's stance.

And I would imagine that this move is to protect the content but after it is re encoded 2 times, it is not like the quality will really be that great or anything. I wish people would stop worrying about low quality stuff.




RE: TWC DVR boxes are terrible
By thirdtenor on 7/28/2006 3:31:18 PM , Rating: 2
Early adoption has always been expensive in tivo land, the HR10-250 was $1k also when it first came out, prices will drop and drop ALOT.

about recoding, are you talking about the cable company or the TIVO itself? CC should leave the mpeg2 and audio intact, TIVO has their own "container" but the data is the same AFAIK.


RE: TWC DVR boxes are terrible
By Staples on 7/28/2006 6:05:25 PM , Rating: 2
Well nice to know that the current TIVOs cost many times what they do when they launched. I bought a TIVO two years ago and it was $250 or so, the $1k price tag of the supposed initial Series 3 had me worried.

I didn't know the TWC Scientific Atlantic boxes recorded the streams bit for bit. I always imagines that they transcoded them because those boxes have terrible lag. You press pause and a second later it pauses. This is with live stuff too, it isn't with on demand where I could excuse this lag.


TWC response....?
By Bierboy on 7/28/2006 3:42:54 PM , Rating: 3
From the TCF...


Response from TWC...
Got this nice response to my email into TWC Executive chain.....
I removed name and phone number since it was a personal note to me.

"I apologize for all the confusion and possible miscommunication. We will and do support products that require cable cards, as long as they are cable lab certified. As for your question if we can handle the demand, we have always prided ourselves on being able to deliver to our customers whichever product they desire within a timely fashion. As for self install or we will require a truck roll, today we roll a truck and do not charge for the cable card to be installed.

I hope I have addressed your concerns. Please feel free to contact me directly with any more questions at 919-573-XXXX."

With best regards,


XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

VP of Customer Care
Time Warner Cable
Raleigh Division




RE: TWC response....?
By nowayout99 on 7/30/2006 12:36:57 AM , Rating: 2
Exactly.

Just because some customer service rep says "no" due to a lack of education on the Tivo product that isn't even out yet, that doesn't make it an official TW stance.

TW will support it because they have to.


TIVO DVR
By ideal4u on 7/30/2006 9:02:08 AM , Rating: 2
The advertising agency's that create the commercials in the first place ought to be fired for thier lack of content and creativity for the commercials aren't worth the watching anyway, and the companies that shell out big bucks for this repetative JUNK that is placed in front of our eyes every few minutes should realize this.Who wouldn't fast forward a commercial that is aired every 8 minutes of thier lives.What happened to America and freedom to choose. I choose not to watch these garbage commercials anylonger due to the number of times they are played and the frequency of them. If the advertisers would place decent informative content people wouldn't be racing through the JUNK that they are cramming in our brains.I sincerely think that we should absolutely HAVE a CHOICE in what we watch, just like if we don't want our kids watching R rated shows we have the ability to block them because they are garbage just like the repetative commercials that the advertisers produce.What gets me the most is how some of the networks, especially FOX, bash the OIL companies, then show you the next 2 commercials sponsered by the big oil companies. Heck who needs to spend money on advertising Gasoline, we all need it and the advertising just adds cost to the gallon of gas that we buy, consumers in the end pay for the advertising one way or the other anyway. I love my TIVO and especially the FAST FORWARD BUTTON so I can watch what I am PAYING FOR, not what they WANT ME TO WATCH, isn't this AMERICA or are we living in a communist country in which we can't make a decision in what we want to view.




RE: TIVO DVR
By mindless1 on 7/31/2006 1:01:17 AM , Rating: 2
Well, sure, today's TV is pretty sad and a large part of the reason "AS" many use the internet regularly, as do.

As little TV as I watch, a large % of commercials make me think that if they have so little judgement to come up with that poor a commercial, their product may be suffering as well. While that may seem an arbitrary presumption, in the end the only presentation the company made is a poor one, a reason NOT to patronize them.


Change article title.
By mindless1 on 7/30/2006 2:24:44 AM , Rating: 2
The article title needs changed, as TW does not say "No TIVOs", they simply don't provide support for them as is the case with any company and their customers' 3rd party products.




more nails in the death bed of tivo
By michal1980 on 7/28/06, Rating: -1
RE: more nails in the death bed of tivo
By segagenesis on 7/28/2006 2:53:00 PM , Rating: 2
Because there are apparently no alternatives

http://sagetv.com/
http://www.snapstream.com/products/beyondtv/
http://www.mythtv.org/

Oh wait...


By Vertigo101 on 7/28/2006 4:31:47 PM , Rating: 2
What, no mention of Media Center Edition? ;)


RE: more nails in the death bed of tivo
By DigitalFreak on 7/28/2006 3:14:25 PM , Rating: 3
Cable companies are REQUIRED to provide you with a cable card for any Cable Labs certified device. TW is just raising a stink because the Series 3 Tivo units are still beta, even though they have just completed certification.

Of course TW wants you to use their shitty DVR, since they make money off of renting it to you.

I have D* TV.


RE: more nails in the death bed of tivo
By MrSmurf on 7/28/2006 8:11:55 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Cable companies are REQUIRED to provide you with a cable card for any Cable Labs certified device.


No they are not. What gives you that silly idea? TW doesn't have to sell Cable Cards if they don't want to. They only do because people want them.

If a Cable Card does not work in a person's TV (or TIVO in this case), it is the sub whom has to fix the problem. A lot of TV's require you to purchase a large flash drive to update the firmware so that it and the Cable Card can 'get along'. TW as no legal obligation to make their software compatible with all Cable Card devices.


By Wolfpup on 7/29/2006 8:10:13 PM , Rating: 2
That's not true, the government REQUIRES cable cards. Cable companies wouldn't do cards at all if not for the government. It's one of the very few things the government bothers to regulate with cable.

And yes, they are required to rent you (inexpensivly) cable cards or they're breaking the law.


By Lezmaka on 7/29/2006 8:55:25 PM , Rating: 2
As wolfpup said, they ARE required to provide/support CableCards.

Everything I've read always refers to "CableCARD-enabled devices" or "navigation devices". In the document quoted below, navigation devices are defined as “converter boxes, interactive equipment, and other equipment used by consumers within their premises to receive multichannel video programming and other services offered over multichannel video programming systems.” I have not read anything that says CableCARD support only refers to televisions.

Here's a quote from a document published by the FCC on March 17, 2005.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/...
Page 21
quote:
The MOU and the Commission’s rules require cable operators to support PODs , and consumers have purchased POD-enabled devices in reliance on these requirements. We expect the cable industry to dedicate the resources necessary to ensure that commercially available CableCARD-enabled devices continue to interoperate properly with cable systems . We note that some consumer electronics manufacturing entities assert that cable industry deployment and support of CableCARDs has been disappointing.162 The Commission takes seriously allegations that the cable industry, or individual cable operators, are failing to meet their obligations to deploy and support CableCARDs. If specific allegations of CableCARD support violations are brought to the Commission, we will investigate such allegations and take appropriate action if necessary. Further to this end, we direct the six largest cable operators, Comcast Corporation, Time Warner Cable, Cox Communications, Charter Communications, Adelphia Cable, and Cablevision,163 to file on or before August 1, 2005 and every 90 days thereafter, status reports on CableCARD deployment and support.164 The report(s) shall address the following: (1) the general availability of CableCARDs; (2) the number of CableCARDs currently in service and how those devices are placed in service; (3) whether service appointments are required for all CableCARD installations; (4) the average number of truck rolls required to install a CableCARD; (5) the monthly price charged for a CableCARD and the average cost of installation; (6) problems encountered in deploying CableCARDs and how those problems have been resolved; and (7) the process in place for resolving existing and newly discovered CableCARD implementation problems.

And since I don't expect that you'll actually read the document, POD stands for point-of-deployment modules and "PODs are referred to by the cable and consumer electronics industries for marketing purposes as “CableCARDs.”"


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