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Blizzard cites piracy as one of the reasons to nix LAN support

With the upcoming release of Valve's Left 4 Dead 2 still causing some gamers to froth at the mouth, the latest announcement from another of gaming's darling developers Blizzard is sure to cause a fresh batch to bubble forth. After enduring the ire of loyal fans by splitting the sequel into a trilogy, Blizzard dropped the second proverbial Terran Nuke when it announced StarCraft II will not support LAN play, with multiplayer being exclusive to Blizzard's updated Battle.net service.

"We don't have any plans to support LAN," VP of game design Rob Pardo told IncGamers in an interview Sunday. This was later confirmed with a statement from Blizzard PR rep Bob Colayco:

We don’t currently plan to support LAN play with StarCraft II, as we are building Battle.net to be the ideal destination for multiplayer gaming with StarCraft II and future Blizzard Entertainment games. While this was a difficult decision for us, we felt that moving away from LAN play and directing players to our upgraded Battle.net service was the best option to ensure a quality multiplayer experience with StarCraft II and safeguard against piracy.

Several Battle.net features like advanced communication options, achievements, stat-tracking, and more, require players to be connected to the service, so we’re encouraging everyone to use Battle.net as much as possible to get the most out of StarCraft II. We’re looking forward to sharing more details about Battle.net and online functionality for StarCraft II in the near future.

Users of pirated copies of games will often utilize LAN-over-VPN programs or services, such as Hamachi, in order to form ad-hoc gaming communities. By removing the ability for LAN play, Blizzard hopes to nip this in the bud and bring more gamers to their revamped Battle.net service.

Thankfully, the rumors about Battle.net becoming a paid service are untrue for the moment; at least if you live in North America or the European Union. Pardo hinted that due to Asia being "a little different how they do things" some features might require microtransactions, similar to the ability to pay additional money to transfer servers in World of Warcraft.

StarCraft II is currently scheduled for a late-2009 release; as long as "it is ready."

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Complete and total BS
By bighairycamel on 7/1/2009 10:00:33 AM , Rating: 5
Damnit, this is completely stupid. The LAN-over-VPN community is so miniscule, this is just greed, plain and simple.

If I want to install a game on 2 of my PCs at home and use them to play LAN games with family members this is completely within my rights. They're just using Battle.net to milk as much profit from this cash cow as possible. It's getting ridiculous when you have to buy 2 copies just to play a game with your brother. Pricks.




RE: Complete and total BS
By mofo3k on 7/1/2009 10:10:07 AM , Rating: 3
Actually it's not within your rights. That is called software piracy. You're supposed to pay for 2 copies of the game if you're gonna install it on 2 pc's. Unless it's a game like WOW where you pay for the account to play online, but even then you can't use that same account on another pc at the same time.

I wish it were the way you want to use it but lets be honest, piracy is killing the pc game market.


RE: Complete and total BS
By theslug on 7/1/2009 10:21:46 AM , Rating: 5
Not necessarily. For SC1, you could spawn a copy of the game on another computer for free, as long as it was used for LAN play.


RE: Complete and total BS
By mofo3k on 7/1/2009 10:26:58 AM , Rating: 4
True, but it's "Within Blizzard's Rights" not to allow you to do that this time. That was my whole point. I'm all for a cheaper game experience, but if the publisher/developer doesn't allow it, then it's not "within your rights" to do it.

There aren't many games that let you do that anymore and SC1 was released like 11 years ago when the internet and software piracy were not as big as they are now.


RE: Complete and total BS
By mofo3k on 7/1/09, Rating: 0
RE: Complete and total BS
By ockky on 7/1/2009 12:32:29 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
There aren't many games that let you do that anymore and SC1 was released like 11 years ago


Actually, Demigod allows this, and it just came out a little over two months ago...


RE: Complete and total BS
By kwisatzCA on 7/1/09, Rating: -1
RE: Complete and total BS
By Hyperion1400 on 7/1/2009 2:12:52 PM , Rating: 3
RTF Copyright Act of 1976!


RE: Complete and total BS
By kwisatzCA on 7/1/2009 5:41:46 PM , Rating: 2
That too!!! Neither of which gives license or "rights" to do as he states he wants.


RE: Complete and total BS
By TheEinstein on 7/6/2009 9:50:23 AM , Rating: 3
In 2000 to 2001 I studied the online file sharing 'phenomenon' in depth. I did this as an outside security expert expanding his knowledge into the realm of computer security to enhance my forthcoming book on security, and as to further increase the realm of security related knowledge I have. I studied industry quotes on the problem, and involved myself in the various communities. I tracked servers and services, I tracked total seeders, bandwidth capabilities, I tracked different trends and time availabilities. As a statistics hobbyist (now into theory) I was able to identify a higher bound by far than what the 'industry' quoted so frequently.

The issue is much larger, in my opinion, than anyone realizes. This includes the fact that accounting for hand made copies increases the total numbers, but by an unknown factor. I do believe this is why many software makers are going only to platforms if they can, and refer to the PC market as extra change. Notice also the direct and huge reduction in name brand top quality pc games. I used to be able to buy one of a dozen any given month. Now I might find one in a given month. The models are changing due to the huge criminal market for stealing, copying, and never paying... We now have thinned the best games to two choices in the PC market... top line video card versions, which reduces the total thefts to those who can afford already big purchases, and the online gaming side.

Game makers could easily make a quality game with less intense requirements, but they would see a mere fraction of the revenue, and never would they pay off the costs of making the game.

Blizzards choice is a part of the natural progression for the few remaining top quality games which do not have intense system requirements. This is due to the utter collapse of the dividends for games of quality which are peer to peer bait.


RE: Complete and total BS
By bighairycamel on 7/1/2009 10:21:49 AM , Rating: 2
Totally wrong. It is within my rights according to fair use to install a game I purchase on any of my PCs. Why else do you think Steam lets you install the game more than once? Or why PSN lets you download games on up to 5 systems? So they can support fair use.

While having a second player use the other PC is a gray area, no one is going to sue me over it. And when that second player is a family member who lives in the same house and uses my PC with permission, it leans more towards fair use than piracy.


RE: Complete and total BS
By mofo3k on 7/1/2009 10:41:34 AM , Rating: 2
It's fair use if you have it installed on 1 pc, then uninstall it and reinstall on a different pc. It's piracy when you have it running on 2 pc's at once. Unless the game developer/publisher allow for it. Try activating the same copy of Windows on 2 pc's and claim "fair use". I don't think there has been a fair use precedence set for this type of scenario quite yet. Plus I don't think that Steam lets you play online with the same account on multiple pc's signed in.

I don't know about wanting to test the legality over the use of the same game on multiple pc's, but I'll let you fight the battle for all of us.


RE: Complete and total BS
By bighairycamel on 7/1/2009 11:29:48 AM , Rating: 5
§ 117 · Limitations on exclusive rights: Computer programs

-States you can make "copies" of any software you own, and precedent shows that you can install the software on another PC that you own as a "copy" and precdent even allows for installs on a "portable PC" so if it came down to it the precident could apply to desktops. The starcraft EULA states that you can't make any copies, which is void according to the copyright act.

Like I said, having a second user play the game on PC2 is a piracy gray area, but the act of installing it is not.


RE: Complete and total BS
By mofo3k on 7/1/2009 11:47:07 AM , Rating: 1
Source: http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#117

"(a) Making of Additional Copy or Adaptation by Owner of Copy. — Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, it is not an infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of that computer program provided:

(1) that such a new copy or adaptation is created as an essential step in the utilization of the computer program in conjunction with a machine and that it is used in no other manner, or

(2) that such new copy or adaptation is for archival purposes only and that all archival copies are destroyed in the event that continued possession of the computer program should cease to be rightful."

It doesn't say your brother can play at the same time. While that particular point in the EULA might be void, I don't see where it says you can install it on multiple pc's just to have it there.

And since you keep pressing the point:

quote:
having a second user play the game on PC2 is a piracy gray area


It's not a gray area, it's illegal. Deal with it. Whether to prosecute or not might be a fiscal gray area though.


RE: Complete and total BS
By geddarkstorm on 7/1/09, Rating: 0
RE: Complete and total BS
By mofo3k on 7/1/2009 2:12:13 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Archiving means in the first place to "install"


An Archive in Computer Science
A long-term storage area, often on magnetic tape, for backup copies of files or for files that are no longer in active use.

I think that in this reference, installing and using it on 2 pc's is not archiving. If you just copy the disc, and keep either the copy or original in a safe place, then you are archving.

PS - I love how there are so many downrated posts with seemingly level headed responses on this page.


RE: Complete and total BS
By ClownPuncher on 7/1/2009 2:24:15 PM , Rating: 2
The people have voted.


RE: Complete and total BS
By mofo3k on 7/1/2009 2:29:02 PM , Rating: 2
Arrr, yes they have.

Look I'm not trying to say that piracy is going away, and I'm not saying that I won't pirate anything in the future. I'm just saying that maybe we shouldn't pretend that what we're doing is justified or right.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that someone will come out with a crack or mod that allows you to emulate BN servers or add lan play in some other way anyway. But what really speaks volumes is money. If the first or second version of SC2 don't do well because gamers refuse to buy it until they add lan support, then guess what. They'll add it in.


RE: Complete and total BS
By ClownPuncher on 7/1/2009 3:02:16 PM , Rating: 5
SC1 was a huge hit for LAN parties, despite the crap people say, LAN parties are still happening every day. Part of the draw of a LAN party is the social aspect of it, no lag, starting clans, and showing off your hardware. Not to mention mod crews forming, modelers for CS:S weapons etc. Alot of these people meet at LAN parties still.

I have no reason to doubt that SC2 would be anything but a huge boon to people that enjoy LAN parties, if it were allowed.

Part of the problem is that there haven't been many hardcore RTS style games recently with the following that SC1 had and still has. They are either fun but taxing on the hardware (WiC anyone?) or just not fun at all.

In effect, Blizzard is cutting out the more hardcore players by dumbing down content (WoW) and eliminating LAN play. Don't assume that since there are 40 people at a LAN party, that any of them are "pirating", the ones I have been too pretty much everyone owned their own copy of the game.


RE: Complete and total BS
By Alexstarfire on 7/1/2009 4:02:16 PM , Rating: 4
Look, I don't see why the hell people are getting so F'in upset over this. As mofo3k clearly pointed out running two copies of the same program on different computers is illegal. It was great when SC1 allowed you to use a "spawn" to play LAN games, but let's go take a look back in 1998. Many, MANY people back then didn't even have internet, let alone anything faster than dial-up 99% of the time.

Fast forward to today where easily 90+% of the people have internet, even if many are still on dial-up, I just don't see why they'd need a LAN option and "spawns." Might as well complain you can't do serial connections for multiplayer as well not being able to just type in there IP. Things change. If people still want to have a "LAN" party with this game it's not like they can't just connect to battle.net anyway. The whole point of a LAN party wasn't the method of connection, it was the fact that you were actually sitting next to the people you were playing against. That isn't going to change.

I can only see people complaining about this because they don't want to get all 3 sections of the game. Though considering how some of these online games get hacked I don't see it being a problem for those who really want it.

I also suppose many of you have never been to an internet cafe in Taiwan or China either. They have tons of cracked games to play and for games like SC and WC3 there are several non-Blizzard servers to play on so you can play with any pirated copy of the game.


RE: Complete and total BS
By ClownPuncher on 7/1/2009 6:01:06 PM , Rating: 4
So you're saying if we want to play LAN style, either stfu or go to Taiwan? Nice business model.

If you've never lived in a dorm, had roomates, or enjoyed LAN parties them I am sure this option is worthless. But since millions of people DO play games this way, why cut them out? I don't care if you can't "spawn" copies anymore, require everyone to use an original cd and verify the cd key when you install. Sure people will use cracks, but bnet isn't going to stop that either, especially with emulator servers.

Sure, we can log on bnet and play with the guy sitting next to us with a super high ping, but why when we really shouldn't need to?

So, if it isn't about piracy, and it isn't about pay-to-play...what was the point of cutting out a multiplayer option that people DO still use?

Why are you so upset that people are upset with Blizzard for cutting out part of a game that has been a staple for years?


RE: Complete and total BS
By Alexstarfire on 7/1/09, Rating: -1
RE: Complete and total BS
By r31nismoid on 7/2/2009 4:44:05 AM , Rating: 5
Question is mate - have you?

I play daily on Battle.net. I've been playing on this server for roughly 8 years, average 20hrs per week as im often oncall (IT) so i need something to do while im waiting for call backs... So i speak from great experience.

I use the USWest Server for Warcraft III TFT expansion.
Its the ONLY option i have as a gamer from Australia... same as the many 10,000's of other Australians.

Pings at their best for AUS are 180-200ms , vs the average US players ping if around 20-30ms .
Battle.net regularly spikes.
Battle.net regularly looses connection.
Battle.net regularly times out when loading games/search errors and so on.

I would see one error roughly every 50-70 games. Considering your average game length is 10-12mins thats a lockup once every 9-10hrs which is pretty pathetic in my view. Sometimes its worse than others and will occur 3-4 times in a 4hr period and then suddenly "Battle.net is going down for maintainence"

Its certainly not my internet connection as i have the best money can buy for ADSL2+ in this country...
I also play on via Steam regularly using Australian servers, various games. I have not had one single drop out issue like i get with Battle.net

Also what Blizzard have forgotten about (and lots of other people here) are the large Tournaments played via LAN's in Europe/America/Asia.
Look at some of the professional players making over $100,000/year+++.
They are not playing via Battle.net are they?
These big tournaments attract massive attention so they wouldn't be using illegitimate copies for a start.

LAN has its place - Simple as that.

However its very very much a massive greed-grab here once again by Blizzard. They are trying to bring all these Tournaments run by other companies making big $$$ back into their own pockets first and foremost.

WoW was the start of it all, SC2 will continue it and only make it worse.


RE: Complete and total BS
By mofo3k on 7/1/2009 11:58:00 PM , Rating: 2
When did I say that? I understand and personally would rather that they include this in the game. I hope that they at least include this option in the 2nd or 3rd chapters of SC2. I'm sure they'll here a lot of backlash from it's omission in the first one.


RE: Complete and total BS
By MRwizard on 7/2/2009 6:10:45 AM , Rating: 4
why? because i now have to conect to the internet and PAY FOR MY USAGE.im in a 3rd world coutry, and i have a limited amount of hours on the net. now i cant have a 1v1 with my gf whenever i feel like it. this seriously upset me, i have JUST cancelled my pre-order, and i'm pretty sure my gf too will be after this news.
thank you blizzard for restoring my faith in you. i will never buy another game from you ever again


RE: Complete and total BS
By andylawcc on 7/1/09, Rating: -1
RE: Complete and total BS
By ClownPuncher on 7/1/2009 5:43:58 PM , Rating: 2
No.


RE: Complete and total BS
By BZDTemp on 7/1/2009 6:39:30 PM , Rating: 2
More like those which seek every excuse to not pay their way in life have voted. Everyone know an archive is a place for storage not a place for use. Installing is installing not something else.

With the brains voting in this place getting voted down is actually a compliment.


RE: Complete and total BS
By lco45 on 7/1/2009 10:30:55 PM , Rating: 2
And man are they dumb...

Luke


RE: Complete and total BS
By Ratinator on 7/2/2009 11:45:32 AM , Rating: 1
archive <> install
archive != install


RE: Complete and total BS
By andylawcc on 7/1/2009 3:46:29 PM , Rating: 2
what's the point of installing it (the legal part) and not run/play it by the second party (the illegal part)?


RE: Complete and total BS
By Alexstarfire on 7/1/2009 4:04:29 PM , Rating: 2
Just assuming here, but perhaps it's so that the rightful user of the program can use the program on that computer. Anyway, installing it is technically illegal too.


RE: Complete and total BS
By MrDiSante on 7/1/2009 11:49:35 AM , Rating: 3
I'm very unhappy with this as well, and not because I use multiple copies of the game accross multiple computers (ally of my friends have their own copies), but because sometimes it's nice to bypass Battlenet due to latency or internet issues.

For instance, a friend of mine gets dropped from Battlenet seemingly at random for some reason or other (this doesn't happen with any other game). What do we do? We VPN and play Starcraft/WCIII.

Or alternatively if we feel like having a LAN-party (which admittedly is happening less and less often, but sometimes it does), most of our internet connections introduce enough lag to be nigh-unplayable if there are 8 of us on the same line.

Yeah, generally speaking it's not such a great big deal to do this and Blizzard may think that it'll help with piracy, but it does show a new hostile attitude towards Blizzard's loyal fanbase. As for helping piracy - it won't. I can always go ahead and download bnetd or pvpgn or somesuch if I'm hell-bent on piracy. Long story short, I think this move does a lot more damage to the Blizzard-gamer relations than it will bring added (if any) profit to Blizzard.


By Master Kenobi (blog) on 7/3/2009 9:23:03 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
For instance, a friend of mine gets dropped from Battlenet seemingly at random for some reason or other (this doesn't happen with any other game). What do we do? We VPN and play Starcraft/WCIII.

I had this problem once upon a time, what you need to do is open a port on your router for both TCP and UDP traffic and tell WC3 to use that port in the options page. If you only allow TCP packets then this weird seemingly random Battle.net disconnect happens (I experienced it mostly in DOTA games rather than ladder).


RE: Complete and total BS
By jbourne77 on 7/1/2009 10:54:21 AM , Rating: 4
bighairycamel, you are very confused. You are entitled to make one back-up of your game, and for BACK-UP PURPOSES ONLY. In some cases, you're even allowed to install it on multiple PC's, but the caveat is that YOU must be the user of the software, regardless of which PC it's executing on. There's no "my brother is playing it on the other PC" clause in any EULA or in any law that could override the EULA.

You have no rights afforded to you BY LAW that inherently allow you to buy one copy to be used by two people simultaneously. The EULA forbids this, and no applicable laws override this part of the EULA.

Just because you're outraged doesn't mean you're right or entitled to XYZ. Just because you were permitted to do this over a decade ago doesn't mean you're right or entitled to XYZ.


RE: Complete and total BS
By kamel5547 on 7/1/09, Rating: 0
RE: Complete and total BS
By Smilin on 7/1/2009 11:33:13 AM , Rating: 2
Steam allows you to install on more than one machine at a time but it does not allow you to PLAY on more than one machine at a time.

Also, having a second player use your other PC is NOT a gray area...it's piracy.

Suck it up dude.


RE: Complete and total BS
By Targon on 7/2/2009 2:54:54 AM , Rating: 2
Fair rights states that you may install it on as many computers at one time, but you may only play it on one computer at a time per paid/licensed copy. So, install the game on all your computers, but you can only be playing on ONE of them at the same time with that CD/license key.


RE: Complete and total BS
By Erudite on 7/2/2009 8:45:19 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Why else do you think Steam lets you install the game more than once?


Actually, while Steam does let you do that, you cannot run Steam online on more than one PC at once. It will sign you out of the existing online account if you log in from somewhere else. Granted you can start in offline mode, but I don't believe that multi-player only or the multi-player mode part of a single player game will work. You can still play the games you want to in single player with one online and multiple offline sessions, though I imagine the legality of that is questionable at best, at least if the same game is being run on both at the same time.


RE: Complete and total BS
By Boze on 7/1/2009 10:25:10 AM , Rating: 3
You're right on the money here, and its really sad that PC gaming is suffering from software piracy given how much cheaper the games are.

I picked up Ghostbusters The Video Game the other day... had planned to get it for Xbox 360, but it was $59.97 at Wal-Mart. It was $29.97 for the PC version. I'll take the PC version, thank you very much.

Same for Street Fighter IV and why I'm picking it up today. $59.99 for Xbox 360, $39.99 for PC. What kills me though is seeing someone with a monster gaming rig, you know, one of those that is around $2500 to $4000, and they're pirating games left and right. Its almost as if they feel like the high cost of entry for the very best hardware is a license to pirate games.


RE: Complete and total BS
By The0ne on 7/1/2009 11:13:32 AM , Rating: 2
Piracy is all over, not just PC games. Consoles don't have it any easier although PS3 is doing quite well. That's only because Blu-ray hasn't picked up and it's way too costly for the players and media :D (compared to CD/DVD).

I need to buy the new ghostbuster game for PC. Just haven't had the time. Hope it's good game :)


RE: Complete and total BS
By Triple Omega on 7/1/2009 1:15:51 PM , Rating: 3
Where do you people keep getting that the industry is "suffering"? See http://torrentfreak.com/economy-profits-from-file-... for a nice report stating that piracy has a positive effect on the dutch economy and little negative effect on the industry.

And here another from the Harvard Business School about music piracy: http://www.unc.edu/~cigar/papers/FileSharing_March...

quote:
Downloads have an effect on sales which is statistically indistinguishable from zero, despite rather precise estimates. Moreover, these estimates are of moderate economic significance and are inconsistent with claims that file sharing is the primary reason for the recent decline in music sales.


So I see any action against piracy as a negative one. The industry won't get any significant boost in sales and the economy and the people will suffer from it. How is that a good goal to strive for from anyones viewpoint? Why don't the industries just stop fighting and bank all that cash they spend on their war-on-piracy each year? That will net them far more extra profit then any decline in piracy ever will!


RE: Complete and total BS
By Devo2007 on 7/1/2009 1:16:17 PM , Rating: 2
The reason Ghostbusters is so cheap on the PC is that it does not contain multiplayer - the console versions do.


RE: Complete and total BS
By MrPoletski on 7/1/2009 11:58:06 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
I wish it were the way you want to use it but lets be honest, piracy is killing the pc game market.


No it is not. Period.


RE: Complete and total BS
By mofo3k on 7/1/09, Rating: 0
RE: Complete and total BS
By Shmak on 7/1/2009 1:12:45 PM , Rating: 2
Yup piracy is killing the PC game market, just like it killed the music industry. Oh wait, just like it killed the film industry. Hold on...

Fact is, piracy kills the companies that make money from the distribution of hard copies. The developers are sometimes financed by distributors, though not always. Developers will not stop making games. The distribution model is just going out the window (like it should).


RE: Complete and total BS
By MrPoletski on 7/2/2009 3:36:06 AM , Rating: 5
I'm fed up of telling people, that's why I don't bother making an argument here.

The biggest cause of piracy is anti-piracy measures.


RE: Complete and total BS
By MrPoletski on 7/2/2009 8:55:12 AM , Rating: 2
and tbh, about as good and your 'honest' and 'is' argument really.


RE: Complete and total BS
By GlassHouse69 on 7/1/09, Rating: -1
RE: Complete and total BS
By mofo3k on 7/1/2009 2:14:43 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
mofo3k is a fucktard.


Aww, why did this get downrated? He didn't even once advocate against piracy. LOL.


RE: Complete and total BS
By lco45 on 7/1/2009 10:24:34 PM , Rating: 2
That's like saying if you find a good book you should buy a copy for each member of your family, so they can all read it.

It might be piracy in the strictest sense to install your game to two computers for a little inter-filial gaming, but it doesn't feel like it.

Luke


RE: Complete and total BS
By Blight AC on 7/1/2009 10:30:49 AM , Rating: 3
My main concern is that I'll be seeing this with Diablo III as well. It was fun to run previous Diablo games on 2 PC's and play with my SO, but she doesn't play enough to make a 2nd game purchase (with expansion packs) worthwhile.

I hope that Blizzard will at least allow a buddy system kinda like the Xbox Live service does, where you can have a buddy using the same Xbox and game logged in with you playing on Live. However, since Startcraft 2 and Diablo III are PC based, and you really can't have two people playing on 1 PC, I'm not sure it would be feasible.


RE: Complete and total BS
By invidious on 7/1/2009 10:58:44 AM , Rating: 1
If you like the game that much buy multiple copies. I have two sets of cd keys for diablo 2. One for my desktop and one for my Laptop. For the amount of time I played Diablo 2 it was more than worth it. And considering battle.net is free and Blizzard is just all around awesome I don't mind supporting them.


RE: Complete and total BS
By The0ne on 7/1/2009 11:03:00 AM , Rating: 2
Yep, definitely. I got whole family into SC, WC and Diablo :)


RE: Complete and total BS
By Blight AC on 7/6/2009 4:13:39 PM , Rating: 2
I liked the game, my wife played it a number of times with me that I could count on one hand, which is definitely not worth the purchase of a second copy IMO.

It's nice to be able to try it out and see if it's something we could enjoy together or not, without spending $50 bucks on a 2nd copy.


RE: Complete and total BS
By Danish1 on 7/1/2009 11:39:10 AM , Rating: 1
I don't think the LaN market justifies supporting it anymore.

Most if not all potential multiplayers got net access so
I see nothing wrong with blizzard deciding to drop a dying standard.


RE: Complete and total BS
By MrPoletski on 7/1/2009 12:01:17 PM , Rating: 5
Lets face it in fifteen years time the new wave of n00bs getting into computing aren't even going to know what a LAN was.


RE: Complete and total BS
By camylarde on 7/2/2009 8:02:31 AM , Rating: 2
Lets see it the other way around. My 15 friends will all have the game purchased very soon after the release. Next year, when our LAN party will be thrown out, again, i'll be scratching my head whether I'd like to buy the game too to play with them. Then I remember hey, there is no LAN support, and BT won't handle 16 comps playing the game from one place, sending it over to bnet, and back 16 times, and Im sure I won't be buying the game.


RE: Complete and total BS
By Danish1 on 7/3/2009 6:39:03 PM , Rating: 2
Yea I'm sure you would have bought to play on LAN once a year in the first place.


RE: Complete and total BS
By frozentundra123456 on 7/1/2009 8:16:59 PM , Rating: 3
Why cant PC games be set up to allow 2 people to play on one computer???? If the Wii or xbox 360 can do it, surely a PC can. The PC hardware must be several times more powerful than the xbox 360, not to mention the Wii, which is from the dark ages technically.


RE: Complete and total BS
By Blight AC on 7/6/2009 4:07:57 PM , Rating: 2
PC typically have smaller monitors and only one Mouse and Keyboard. I just don't see people buying more then one mouse and keyboard for a PC anyhow, and typically multiple mice only control one pointer. Buying multiple game controllers for the console is far more commonplace.

PC games are usually PC games because their control scheme requires more then just a gamepad, otherwise, it'd also be available on the console, which is a far easier market to sell games to (hence the declarations of the death of PC gaming.)


RE: Complete and total BS
By mfed3 on 7/1/2009 10:43:54 AM , Rating: 2
I'm kinda angry about this too, but think of it from their side. The number of LAN connect users may be miniscule in the US, but maybe not in other countries like Korea. In some places, SC is basically the national sport and played by everyone. Immagine finding out that 75% of all these users didnt pay a dime for all your efforts and set up an entire network to get around paying the up front cost.

The $60 flat for a game in the US might be viable, but in Korea, they may want to charge $10 per year or something...


RE: Complete and total BS
By rudy on 7/1/2009 1:43:59 PM , Rating: 2
You are the first one to nail the point, In much of developing Asia everyone does this sort of thing at a internet cafe and those places basically pirate and LAN everything, in the US the internet Cafe is much less common and most people own their own computer. But steam has been running things more like this for a while and is working out well. I think this is just the way most software is headed you need an internet connection and they can make sure only 1 person is using it. Also the low price people pay for games on PCs is really not much just pay the 30$ or whatever and be done with it. The main reason consoles are overtaking PCs is because they have higher profits and can afford to advertize and reinvest more then PC games.

As a side note the better option may have been to program the server so it will not allow more then 1 person with the same CD Key to connect to the same server.


RE: Complete and total BS
By neothe0ne on 7/1/2009 2:15:09 PM , Rating: 3
Steam games have LAN support. Blizzard just came out and said there will be ZERO LAN support in StarCraft II (and Diablo III).


RE: Complete and total BS
By GodisanAtheist on 7/1/2009 3:54:51 PM , Rating: 1
On the contrary, I would think that the game's competitive nature and the fact that the game is being designed with competitive play in mind would lend itself to the inclusion of LAN play.

Nothing is going to top the ping time of a LAN, nor is it dependent on the state of your connection to the outside world.


RE: Complete and total BS
By Alexstarfire on 7/1/2009 4:11:50 PM , Rating: 1
That's true, but if you look at Blizzard's history of RTS gaming over the internet you'd see that latency/lag hasn't been much of an issue. Now go play a game like AoE 3 and tell me the same thing. I'm confident that lag won't be an issue in this game. I'll be sorely disappointed if it is.


RE: Complete and total BS
By neothe0ne on 7/1/2009 5:57:02 PM , Rating: 2
Latency and lag of the service (Battle.net) is irrelevant when there are ****ty connections out there that inherently have high latency. Again, high-speed != low latency.


RE: Complete and total BS
By Alexstarfire on 7/1/2009 8:06:58 PM , Rating: 2
True, but even with crappy connections, like Comcast for instance, is still hundreds of times better than dial-up, which was highly prevalent with SC1. Might suck for those who have crappy connections and want to play LAN, but I image that's far fewer than those who actually play at LANs anyway.


RE: Complete and total BS
By ICBM on 7/1/2009 10:48:20 AM , Rating: 2
Agreed. The amount of people using hamachi, etc. are way to small to make any impact. There are no stats, rankings, etc. People who play Starcraft are going to want to play on Battle.net for those reasons. When people go to a LAN party, they don't necessarily need/want stats, they are just there to have fun with their friends.

For the people who say, well you can just play using Battle.net at LAN parties, I would respond that where we have LAN parties, we don't have internet access. The only place large enough for 10-12 of us is in a friends equipment shed on their farm. I would think no internet is common for alot of small LAN parties.

I can completely understand Blizzard wanting to limit piracy as much as possible, however if piracy was that big of a problem, then it would not make any sense to make the game.


RE: Complete and total BS
By rndmize on 7/1/2009 11:33:33 AM , Rating: 2
Seems there's a lot of people making this mistake, but I'll just respond to this post. Hamachi is not the way the LAN system is abused; its programs like Garena which use the LAN component to create a full online game lobby that they're trying to stop. And the number of people that use programs like Garena is huge (going by what I remember from the ladder stats, there's tens of thousands of US players and likely a proportional increase for poorer countries).

I have a friend who, though he plays WC3/Dota almost every day, has yet to buy a legit copy of the game because programs like these exist (its worth noting he's Chinese, and this is probably one of the most common ways to play in China and eastern Europe). People will always find a way around such measures, but as long as it isn't as easy as downloading and installing a lobby program, this may have a reasonable effect for Blizzard.

Random article that notes this: http://www.sk-gaming.com/content/24895-No_LAN_supp...


RE: Complete and total BS
By fxsage on 7/1/2009 12:10:43 PM , Rating: 2
Why is it worth noting that he is Chinese? Do the Chinese have special powers?


RE: Complete and total BS
By The0ne on 7/1/2009 12:21:51 PM , Rating: 2
No, they support piracy or rather lack-thereof out in the open. Want to play a game and don't want to pay for it? No problem, the store can help you with that. Want a cracked PSP? No problem, this one on the counter does it just like that. And while we're at it, you can buy this memory with tons of games already loaded for $1

It is that easy there.


RE: Complete and total BS
By TSS on 7/1/2009 4:26:16 PM , Rating: 2
if they did they'd be able to earn enough money to legitimatly buy their software.

that's not to say there aren't any westerners who download out of habit/necessity. i'd wager there are quite a few. just fewer then in china.


RE: Complete and total BS
By meepstone on 7/1/2009 11:39:52 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
however if piracy was that big of a problem, then it would not make any sense to make the game.


Your an idiot. A business should stop making a product then..


RE: Complete and total BS
By MrPoletski on 7/1/2009 12:02:47 PM , Rating: 2
If Blizzard forsees piracy as a problem they should just release starcraft exclusively on steam.


RE: Complete and total BS
By Zapp Brannigan on 7/1/2009 2:50:11 PM , Rating: 2
dude, you can pirate all of valve's steam games quite easily.


RE: Complete and total BS
By callmeroy on 7/1/2009 10:56:45 AM , Rating: 5
I agree this is total BS....and here's why...

1) Piracy is the excuse now for everything these days --- be it Movies on DVD, Music on CD or Games on DVD....its the catch all excuse used by the three industries for limiting and essentially penalizing legit customers. In short its the excuse to charge more for less features (or even charge for the "features" that should be included -- in some cases). Fact of the matter is NO "policy" or business practice will EVER stop piracy -- for as long as humans live and breathe mark my words here and now -- piracy will remain. Pirates don't go "oh crap now I'm not gonna pirate SCII since you can't plan it on lan anymore" --- they'll do what they've done for years...hack the game to copy it and then use stolen or hacked up keys to register it. Battle.net will never no if the s/n is from a hack or a legit purchase --- the good pirates, yeah they are smarter than the software developers who make the games. This has been proven time and again.

2) If companies are really "sorry" in their fake releases that go "while we had a hard time coming to this decision...blah blah blah".....shut up...its an excuse to gain control on you monitoring my game play and or charging extra for it....nothing more. If the game company really cared they would be smart and come up with new security features in order to plan LAN games....like how about code in a module that each player joining the lan game must key in their own SN from their copy of the game AND in addition LAN play won't start up unless it detects the game CD/DVD in the drive as well.

What is so special that Battle.net does security related to this? Battle.net registers the game S/N -- that's all it does...I know because i'm a WoW player and WoW switched over to the new Battle.net a month or two ago -- all WoW players had to upgrade their accounts and register their game discs v/a S/N. So if Battle.Net does that and that's all it does security wise --- what's the difference if the LAN module would just require the same check?

That's how you know this is BS --- because they could easily implement a LAN feature with security if they really wanted.


RE: Complete and total BS
By Entropy42 on 7/1/2009 11:05:32 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
all WoW players had to upgrade their accounts and register their game discs v/a S/N

This isn't true. You had the choice to "upgrade" your account and tie it with you Bnet account, but you didn't have to. Mine is still not tied to my Bnet account, just because I don't want to have to type my email address every time I log in to WoW.


RE: Complete and total BS
By callmeroy on 7/1/2009 11:10:58 AM , Rating: 2
I mis-typed...and you misread the blue posts then....right NOW you don't *have* to upgrade your account...but if you read the official forums you will eventually *HAVE* to or else you won't be able to play the game.


RE: Complete and total BS
By mofo3k on 7/1/2009 11:16:16 AM , Rating: 1
LOL, There's always the little checkbox labeled "Remember Account Name". I can see where that'd be annoying on a shared pc though.


RE: Complete and total BS
By mofo3k on 7/1/2009 11:12:25 AM , Rating: 1
Piracy may be an excuse given by multiple industries and some of it might have some BS to it (Adobe). But the fact is that software piracy has hurt the gaming industry harder than anyone. Why? Because the people who are most active in software piracy play games and pirate games. Hollywood hasn't really lost much in illegal movie downloads, the musicians don't lose much from music downloads (they may even make more in the long run) but when people don't pay for games, the game developer can't make any money. That's where all their money comes from. They don't sell a lot of shirts, don't have concerts, don't sellout theaters, none of that.

I'm not really sure what your gripe with battle.net security is, if you're comparing this to WOW then you might be a little off base. Wow is a subscription based game and SC 2 is a one time payment. BN might only check your SN but what else do you expect it to do?


RE: Complete and total BS
By meepstone on 7/1/2009 11:47:56 AM , Rating: 2
I like how people such as yourself who know nothing about what you are talking about will critizice Blizzard and your solution is a vague statement.

Also, this will not stop piracy, pirated copies will be able to play single player now!!! good for Blizz.

Blizzard is not charging extra for less. They are not charging you extra for nothing more.


RE: Complete and total BS
By callmeroy on 7/1/2009 1:27:46 PM , Rating: 2
LOL -- its an discussion board, its full of personal views and opinions based on various sources -- sometimes the source is personal experience, sometimes its deeper than that like research. Whatever the motive your line in "I like how people such as yourself who know nothing about what you are talking about...." that's the classic cover all line of arrogance --- because that line infers to me that A) I know nothing of what I'm speaking and B) I'm suppose to bow to your all knowing wisdom because (of course) YOUR opinion is the correct one and YOU DO in fact know what you are speaking about....lol...its hilarious.

I don't hate Blizzard --- I forgot though most folks today see everything as an all or nothing thing -- certain so on these boards. I do think its an excuse and nothing more, borne from laziness, to not include LAN play. However, in all honesty -- I will not use LAN play anyway if it were included, it doesn't mean I have to agree with what they decided.

I've played all the Warcraft RTS, both Diablo's, Starcraft and WoW -- bought them all with my own money not a pirated copy in the mix and bought each during original release dates. I've been their customer for years and in fact agree they make some of the highest quality PC games out there.

There is (as I pointed out in another post) a definite pattern lately of them put price tags on more and more things through WoW, I've listened to their Blizzcasts, I've read interviews in gaming mags through out the years. Does this mean I'm special -- of course not....but I do think from those years of observing the experience of being a customer with them and reading what actions they take its a probably conclusion to come to they will eventually charge for Battle.net.

A service introduced many years ago.

So that's where my opinion was formed --- since you intimate I know nothing to base my criticism of Blizzard on -- please reveal what YOU KNOW to base THAT on....

i'm waiting......


RE: Complete and total BS
By Zapp Brannigan on 7/1/2009 2:48:17 PM , Rating: 3
it won't stop multiplayer piracy either, people play wow on private servers. Sure, it's crap but people still do it. SC3 will be hacked and people will play on private servers within a week of release. This is, at worst, a minor inconvenience for the hacker groups.


RE: Complete and total BS
By MrPoletski on 7/1/2009 12:12:16 PM , Rating: 3
Regarding number 1)

Piracy is the number one method for music/gaming/movie companies to cover up their poor business models and rubbish products.

It's always been my take on the music industry, it's YOUR fault CD sales are falling, NOT pirates. If you stopped packaging up a bunch of manufactured rubbish, try and fob us off with it saying it's "music" when all it really is is a softcore porn movie with an even WORSE soundtrack than the 70s then maybe you'd start seeing people above the age of 14 buying CD's again.

While I still turn on my radio and hear bob the builder, the pizza hut song and all that UTTER UTTER TRIPE I have no sympathy for you.

The same, but less so, applies to the PC game industry.

It does not apply to Blizzard, they are a great company that make great games. This is reflected by the fact that it seems that every time they release a new game, it becomes the fastest selling game of all time. They can't whinge about piracy when it happens this way.


RE: Complete and total BS
By artemicion on 7/1/2009 9:22:25 PM , Rating: 1
Yes CD sales are falling because the music industry isn't releasing anything that people want.

That's why you can't find any torrents for the new Green Day album, the new Eminem album, or any of the "tripe" in the top 40.

Just can't find them anywhere on the internet cuz it's sooo bad.

Yup, sooo bad, can't find any torrents for it cuz nobody wants to listen to it.

Same with movies like Dark Knight or Slumdog Millionaire.

Can't find any of that stuff on P2P networks cuz it's such bad tripe.

Nobody wants to watch it. Nobody's gonna share it.

Soooo bad, shouldn't need copy protection cuz nobody wants it.

No sales whatsoever. In fact, did you know that no album has gone platinum since 1995?

Yup, nobody's buying, listening, sharing, or anything.

No copyright needed.

No demand anywhere.

Nothing to worry about.

Can't even give the stuff away in front of a 7-11 cuz nobody wants to listen to it.

Music industry is doing so bad that Kanye West is NOT a millionaire and drives around in a Datsun from the 70s.

Not selling ANY albums. In fact, nobody's even heard of Kanye West cuz his tracks are so bad, nobody listens to him, nobody buys from him, so I don't even know how I heard about him.

Must've been from some bankruptcy filing I saw awhile ago, cuz he certainly isn't selling any CDs.

You know, cuz his music is so bad that nobody wants it and nobody is buying it.

DEFINITELY has never gone platinum cuz his music is so bad.

NOBODY is selling CDs right now cuz music is so bad.

Top sales charts must be 10 CDs sold for the #1 album cuz the music is so bad.

So few CDs sold, no need to prevent people from stealing it cuz it's so bad.

Yup, no need for copyright cuz nobody's listening to music anymore and no CDs are getting sold.

I heard a bum clapping two spoons together and I thought that was weird cuz I've never heard music in 10 years cuz it got so bad.

Didn't give him any money tho cuz it wasn't good enough to pay for his beats.

Nope. Music industry is in poor shape indeed.


RE: Complete and total BS
By MrPoletski on 7/2/2009 8:49:45 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Yes CD sales are falling because the music industry isn't releasing anything that people want.


I didn't say that did I, I said when they stop releasing tripe they will start selling more records. That is not the same as saying they only release tripe. Maybe it is in your mind, but I deal with logic and reality.

quote:
That's why you can't find any torrents for the new Green Day album, the new Eminem album, or any of the "tripe" in the top 40.


Like I said, tripe. Although Green day at least used to be good.

quote:
Just can't find them anywhere on the internet cuz it's sooo bad.
Yup, sooo bad, can't find any torrents for it cuz nobody wants to listen to it.


It gets downloaded on torrent sites because nobody wants to BUY IT. Understand the difference?

quote:
Same with movies like Dark Knight or Slumdog Millionaire.
Can't find any of that stuff on P2P networks cuz it's such bad tripe.
Nobody wants to watch it. Nobody's gonna share it.


Are you retarded? have you heard of the concept of trying before you buy?

quote:
Soooo bad, shouldn't need copy protection cuz nobody wants it.


Copy protecting it 100% of the time fails to stop it being pirated.

quote:
No sales whatsoever. In fact, did you know that no album has gone platinum since 1995?


That's not true, right off the top of my head I can tell you Nine Inch Nails, The Fragile went double platinum and that was released in 1999. Pardon me if I accuse you of talking out your rear end.

quote:
Yup, nobody's buying, listening, sharing, or anything.
No copyright needed.
No demand anywhere.
Nothing to worry about.


Tell me, what colour is the sky in your world?

quote:
Not selling ANY albums. In fact, nobody's even heard of Kanye West cuz his tracks are so bad, nobody listens to him, nobody buys from him, so I don't even know how I heard about him.


I havent heard of him.

quote:
Top sales charts must be 10 CDs sold for the #1 album cuz the music is so bad.


How many single sales does it take to get to number 1 nowadays? how many did it take in the 60s?

oops. compare those resluts even before p2p sharing arrived and it's the same.

quote:
So few CDs sold, no need to prevent people from stealing it cuz it's so bad.


No need to prevent people downloading it because the difference it makes to sales is a drop is the ocean. If people didn't buy stuff because they could download it for free then how come Ghosts I-IV and The Slip by nine inch nails sold any copies at all? both were given away free by the artists himself. In fact you could download them in HIGHER than CD quality. Yet he still sold out of all special editions and sold loads of the standard CD's.

How did that happen? How did he make millions of these albums if they were given away free?

quote:
Yup, no need for copyright cuz nobody's listening to music anymore and no CDs are getting sold.


Yeah, because I said that didn't I, where do you get off with this trolling?


RE: Complete and total BS
By MrPoletski on 7/8/2009 8:47:59 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
...compare those resluts even before p2p ....


best.typo.EVAR


RE: Complete and total BS
By artemicion on 7/1/2009 11:08:01 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
this is just greed, plain and simple.


Yes. Yes it is. The incentive to make money IS why most people get into the game development industry . . .

Did you think Blizzard did this for free?