DailyTech - The History Behind The Toyota Prius

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Gadgets The History Behind The Toyota Prius
Brandon Hill (Blog) - February 25, 2006 2:19 AM

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36 comment(s) - last by cpeter38.. on Feb 27 at 1:46 PM

2001 Toyota Prius

2006 Toyota Prius

The Prius is a bona fide technology hit, but how did it get this far?

Fortune Magazine has posted a new article detailing the gestation of Toyota's wildly popular Prius hybrid vehicle. Although Honda's Insight was the first gasoline hybrid to be marketed to Americans, the original Prius is what put hybrid technology on the map.

Toyota's first generation Prius came to the US shores in 2000 as a 2001 model. That plucky little sedan made do with a 1.5 liter 4-cylinder gasoline engine producing 70HP. It was hooked up to an electric drive motor which produced an additional 44HP. When combined, the two engines helped scoot the Prius 0-60 MPH in a longish 12.8 seconds and gave the vehicle EPA mileage ratings of 52/45 city/highway.

The second generation Prius was introduced in 2003 as a 2004 model. It was bigger in every dimension packing interior dimensions that rivaled Toyota's larger Camry sedan. It also transformed from a sedan to a 5-door hatchback for added versatility. While the gasoline engine was still a small 1.5 liter unit, 76HP was now on tap while the electric motor jumped to 67HP. That added performance boost allowed the 0-60 times to drop to a more respectable 10 seconds while boosting fuel economy to 60/51.

While the Prius has been a big attention getter for Toyota and has brought in surprising sales figures (over 100,000 were sold in the US for 2005), the path to Prius was far from a smooth one. The company had many technological hurdles to overcome and many software glitches to workout before they had a viable product:

Meanwhile the engineers in Japan kept running into problems. According to a 1999 account written by Hideshi Itazaki and published in Japan, the batteries continued to be a nightmare. The Prius needed a large battery pack to power the car at low speeds and to store energy, but it would shut down when it became too hot or too cold. During road tests with Toyota executives, a team member had to sit in the passenger seat with a laptop and monitor the temperature of the battery so that it wouldn't burst into flames.

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scam

By SLEEPER5555 on 2/25/2006 3:15:28 AM , Rating: 2

and the prius does really get that many MPG real world. batteries only last 4 years and cost $4000 to replace. its a scam not a hit

RE: scam

By TheFro on 2/25/2006 3:45:10 AM , Rating: 3

Well, it's a good thing that the batteries have an 8 year warranty from Toyota then.

http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/warranty/warranty.h...

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RE: scam

By SNM on 2/25/2006 3:48:06 AM , Rating: 2

The batteries are rated for 150,000 miles. That might be four years for some people, but it's a lot longer for most people.

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RE: scam

By someone16 on 2/25/2006 4:42:48 AM , Rating: 2

Compared to $1500 moonroofs and $2000 leather seats it's not that bad of a deal...

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RE: scam

By MrSmurf on 2/25/2006 7:35:32 PM , Rating: 2

I wouldn't say so. At least you can finance the other options.

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RE: scam

By cpeter38 on 2/27/2006 1:33:58 PM , Rating: 2

Doesn't matter what they are "rated" for. I could tell you that they are rated for 3,000,000,000 miles. That would be just as valid as saying they are rated for 150,000 miles. What really matters is that they are guaranteed for 8 years or 100,000 miles ( WHICHEVER IS LESS!!! ).

If you want to see real life experiences, check out this Consumer Affairs link http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_p... .

Most notable is the guy who had a "main battery" problem that they charged him $520 for (they claimed it was a sensor). BTW, that vehicle was 3 years +7 days old !!!

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RE: scam

By Sunrise089 on 2/25/2006 5:22:37 AM , Rating: 5

It's sort of in between a scam and a deal. The Prius does get great fuel economy, which is better in the city because the car brakes more often in stop-and-go traffic. Braking equals fuel economy in a hybrid, since the batteries recharge through the equipped regenerative brakes. On the highway the Prius cannot really recharge, and so it makes a little less fuel economy because it is in effect being reduced to just a small and very efficient gas engine.

In regards to hybrid's being a deal or a scam, most of the time when you weight the cost of the upgrade to a hybrid over a comparable vehicle (and you are really only able to do this is a Civic or Escape) the hybrid will not pay for itself in gas savings unless you drive a LOT of miles before you sell it. However many States as well as the US government offer tax credits to hybrid users that may partially offset the cost. In addition many hybrid owners like the idea of driving a vehicle which they feel is unique and better for the environment. Finally the Prius is hard to set against another vehicle in Toyota's line-up, since it's only available as a hybrid. Is it a much more expensive Corolla, since it's close in exterior size and performance, or is it only a slightly more expensive Camry, since it is closer to the Camry's larger interior and offers a few more luxury features than most Corollas?

Of course the better for the environment idea only works if your hybrid gets better economy than all other non-hybrids, which is only true of the Prius and Insight, as well as maybe the new Civic. The Escape, Accord, and Lexus RX400h are only more fuel efficient relative to their equal sized brethren. In fact the Accord and RX400h can really tell us that in terms of cost, the law of diminishing returns really takes over as power and weight go up, such that hybrids such as these are basically fuel economy free ways to get the effect of 20-40 additional horsepower. The traditional hybrid economy is really only available in lightweight cars that make minimal power.

The real unanswered question about hybrids is their resale value. Their are three traits that may make the resale value bad...possibly very very bad, listed in terms of increasing severity.

1. Most hybrids by number sold are well under the median price of a vehicle sold in the US, so many of the customers that may want one can probably afford to buy one new. In addition the efficient hybrids are small and slow, so many second buyers may demand a low price to make up for the fact that they are buying a car with some clear limitations.
2. Hybrids are a very quickly evolving market segment. The first to second generation Prius was a HUGE step forward. The Civic was almost as big of a change. If used hybrid buyers feel that the new models available when the current crop of Insights and Prius' are going on the market are vastly superior, they probably will not pay much for the "inferior models" especially if the new models get better fuel economy.
3. The battery pack will have the nasty tendency to need replacing during the second or third owner's time of possession much more often then during the first. If the second owner thinks he/she will have to replace a $4000-8000 battery pack, what do you think they will do when it comes to making their offer on the car?

Advice for potential buyers:

All hybrids will get better fuel economy the more conservatively you drive and the more often you have to brake.

All hybrids may end up with very low resale values.

All hyrids will probably not pay for themselves in fuel savings.

Prius and Insight are great choices if you love the unique look and crave fuel economy above all else. Prius is by far the better of the two. Both have very poor performance, on par with the smallest engined economy cars with automatic transmissions.

Escape is a choice for the person who wants to drive an SUV and get Camry fuel economy, also the Escape itself is a very good small SUV. Performance is on par with 4 cylinder Escapes and its competitors.

Civic is a choice for people shopping for a Civic who want it's other virtues but are willing to pay more up front for uniqueness and fuel economy.

Accord is for those who want more power in an Accord. It is a really bad choice in terms of price, since it now easily overlaps with more luxurious nameplates that offer either more luxury or more performance. Options include the Acura TSX, Nissan Maxima, Subaru Legacy GT, and Infiniti G35. On the other hand if you must have an Accord but your income bracket allows you to spend 30k on one, then the hybrid is the one to get.

Lexus RX400h is for those who have chosen the Lexus as their entry-luxury SUV of choice (competitors are Acura MDX and maybe BMW X3) and want more power at the expense of cost. As cost rises keep in mind Mercedes M Class, Cadillac SRX, and Infinity FX.

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RE: scam

By tmp8000 on 2/25/2006 6:00:15 AM , Rating: 4

Go away. You actually know what you are talking about and have too many talking points. That kind of intelligent discussion/non-fanboyism is not appreciated, ;)

Sarcasm aside great post.

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RE: scam

By Spoelie on 2/25/2006 8:19:31 AM , Rating: 4

The thing is, that diesels get even better fuel economy than hybrids and are even more powerful to boot. This is common knowledge in europe (where diesel is also most of the time less expensive than gasoline at the pump). If you check the numbers you'll see that the prius is far from a succes in the ol' continent. A diesel of comparable size will most of the time do 70mpg, without battery hurdles. The US being a gasoline-centric community will miss this point tho.

Even an LPG powered car will be greener than a hybrid.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/series_5/prog_7/

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RE: scam

By ksherman on 2/25/2006 8:50:12 AM , Rating: 2

I thought that the reason desiel hasnt taken off in this country is because of the increased emmisions. Also, at least in my area, desiel is significantly more expensive then regular unleaded, somewhere are ound 50cents a gallon

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Nope.. Real reason is our spoiled oil co.

By Pneumothorax on 2/25/2006 10:25:56 AM , Rating: 2

European Manufacturers have been creating low emission diesels. AND if you've ever driven a modern high-pressure common-rail diesel you'd be hard pressed to tell that it was a diesel since it sounds much closer to a gas engine than your usual big-rig. Our problem is that our oil co like to sell cheap diesel with nice amounts of sulfur in it which destroy the expensive catalysts required to clean up the exhaust. Eurodiesels have much lower levels of sulfur in their diesel. I currently drive a BMW 330i and I've driven the diesel version of my car the 330d. It's got almost as much power AND gets in the mid 30's MPG.

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RE: Nope.. Real reason is us..

By masher2

(blog) on 2/25/2006 3:59:34 PM , Rating: 3

No, the real reason for diesel's lack of success in the US is the American consumer's lack of desire for them. We prefer the easy-starting, high-horsepower gasoline engines.

Its easy to blame someone else but-- like usual-- the real problem is us.

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RE: scam

By masher2

(blog) on 2/25/2006 4:03:34 PM , Rating: 3

>> "All hybrids will get better fuel economy the more conservatively you drive and
>> the more often you have to brake. "

No, braking lowers fuel economy, even on hybrids. It just lowers it much less than it would on a non-hybrid.

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RE: scam

By OvErHeAtInG on 2/25/2006 9:39:24 PM , Rating: 2

They have a device which recharges the battery when braking (instead of wasting the energy in the form of heat friction). Battery charge can be used to power electric motor. Imagine if every time you braked, your fuel tank filled a little bit.

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RE: scam

By masher2

(blog) on 2/25/2006 10:02:45 PM , Rating: 3

Yes, I understand regenerative braking, but it still costs fuel economy to brake. You regain some if the energy lost to decelleration, but not all of it. Ergo, the more you brake, the lower your fuel economy.

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RE: scam

By oTAL

(blog) on 2/26/2006 3:02:50 AM , Rating: 2

The point is:
The more you brake in your daily driving, the more you'll be saving when you switch to a hybrid!

Of course braking wastes energy... there's no way you can ever solve that, but you can:
1 - have it totally wasted into heat (traditional combustion cars turn cinetic energy into heat on the tyres, brakes, brakes oil, and all that apparatus)
2 - partly regenerated into ellectric ennergy that can be used again. On grid connected devices (like trains or something similar) you can just route the power into the grid and someone else will use it, so you get GREAT recovery - probably over 90%. Since you can't do that on cars you have to store it in batteries... and they suck... converting the energy has a high cost. On the other hand the electric engine is FAR more efficient than the combustion engine (think 90% vs. 50% but it depends on MANY factors) which allows you not too loose twice on the conversion and even improve your efficiency if you can recharge your batteries on an outlet. I believe the hybrids are just a mid-step, although a very important mid step. Eventually technology will evolve to the point where gasoline will loose interest since it is wastefull, polluting, and dangerous (explosive).

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RE: scam

By mlittl3 on 2/25/2006 2:13:29 PM , Rating: 2

So what is the difference between the high cost of low volume, new technology and a scam?

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RE: scam

By Jedi2155 on 2/25/2006 7:48:34 PM , Rating: 2

$3000 and they technically just about 140-150 D or C Sized NiMH cells.

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Anandtech runs out of topic

By clnee55 on 2/25/06, Rating: 0

RE: Anandtech runs out of topic

By ninjit on 2/25/2006 12:15:24 PM , Rating: 3

This isn't Anandtech, it's Dailytech

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RE: Anandtech runs out of topic

By realist on 2/25/2006 12:24:35 PM , Rating: 3

Yeah its dailytech but its anandtech main news source except for forums, but its a technology site, hybrids are considered a technology so :P

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RE: Anandtech runs out of topic

By clnee55 on 2/25/2006 3:42:05 PM , Rating: 1

It brings the dough from ads. It should be called anandtechABCCBSNBCPBScombined

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RE: Anandtech runs out of topic

By Cygni on 2/26/2006 4:35:51 AM , Rating: 2

DailyTech is AnandTech. Thanks for playing. ;)

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Camry Hybrid and Lexus GS450h Hybrid

By NFS4 on 2/25/2006 8:58:10 AM , Rating: 3

BTW, Toyota has two more Hybrids:

2007 Camry Hybrid
(145HP 2.4 liter I4 + 47HP electric motor, 43/37 city highway.)

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/12/unofficial...

2007 Lexus RX450h
(292HP 3.5 liter V6 + twin electric motors producing 197HP, 28/27 city/highway.)

http://www.thecarconnection.com/Vehicle_Reviews/Hy...

RE: Camry Hybrid and Lexus GS450h Hybrid

By MrEMan on 2/25/2006 9:42:41 AM , Rating: 1

The Honda Accord Hybrid is also available, but it is my understanding that it was designed with performance and increased fuel economy so it therefore doesn't have fantastic EPA ratings which just about everyone realizes are unobtainable "ideal condition" numbers.

As for the link you provided for the Camry Hybrid, I can not believe anything posted by a site called www.treehugger.com (probably is a site run by AlGore).

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RE: Camry Hybrid and Lexus GS450h Hybrid

By NFS4 on 2/25/2006 10:18:01 AM , Rating: 2

The numbers are actually directly from the manufacturer. It was just the first page that popped up on Google for the '07 Camry Hybrid :)

If you want a different source, you'll see the same info here:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstD...

As for the Accord Hybrid. It's been a sales flop for Honda. It's priced too high (around $31k IIRC) and it's not really a "frugal" vehicle as it's aimed as a "performance hybrid" as you've stated. The Camry Hybrid (priced between $26k-27k) on the other hand pairs its Synergy drive with a 4-banger instead of a V6 -- that itself lends to better fuel savings. That and the fact that Toyota's hybrid system is far superior to Hondas.

Toyota is taking a two prong approach with hybrids:

Toyota - frugality, moderately priced
Lexus - performance, performance, performance

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RE: Camry Hybrid and Lexus GS450h Hybrid

By Cygni on 2/26/2006 4:34:48 AM , Rating: 2

The Accord Hybrid is hardly a sales flop for Honda, as there are wait lists at dealers for them. You could equally say that S2000's and Insights were sales flops in their first few years, with low sales numbers... but that would be missing the point that the cars were produced in low quantities, and every single one was sold far before hand. The Accord Hybrid (and Insight) was never meant to be a high volume hybrid car. The hybrid Civic was designed for that market.

And Toyota's hybrid system is hardly better than Honda's. Dont know where you got that, but as someone who spent years working on Honda's and Toyota's, i can deffinitly laugh at that one. :D Both have their strong points and weak points, but neither is better than the other in the end.

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typo?

By aLeoN on 2/25/2006 3:05:57 AM , Rating: 3

Isn't it highway/city instead of the other way around?

RE: typo?

By Capt Caveman on 2/25/2006 3:28:05 AM , Rating: 2

Nope it's city/highway. Hybrids all get better mileage in the city b/c the electronic motor does more work than the gas engine.

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RE: typo?

By MrEMan on 2/25/2006 9:38:06 AM , Rating: 2

It is my understanding that the Prius gets better mileage in the city because it shuts the gas engine off at times during city driving.

However, the original Honda Civic Hybrid got better mileage on the highway.

According to http://automobiles.honda.com/models/engineering_ov... the new Civic Hybrid also has an "Idle Stop" feature which turns off the engine in city driving and automatically restarts when the brake pedal is released.

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PriusChat

By tcooper185 on 2/25/2006 2:52:30 PM , Rating: 3

Lots of Prius and hybrid information at http://www.priuschat.com

RE: PriusChat

By Slaimus on 2/25/2006 9:49:08 PM , Rating: 2

I have heard from owners that certain optional firmware upgrades have caused stalling and such. Kinda funny how you need to get your car flashed as often as a motherboard.

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Here's a link for you all

By stephenbrooks on 2/25/2006 2:56:28 PM , Rating: 3

News on diesel hybrids:

http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,66949,00...

RE: Here's a link for you all

By cpeter38 on 2/27/2006 1:46:02 PM , Rating: 2

Diesel hybrids or DI gas hybrids are much more interesting. Personally, I'd much rather see a DI gas version. You can get most of the efficiency of the diesel with very little of the emissions difficulties (i.e. no particle traps, small NOx issues, lighter engine, etc.). Also, I see no technical reason why DI gas hybrids should have much more than an incremental price increase (relative to conventional gas engines) ...

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