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While the real winner is yet to be decided, Blu-ray is the leader according to new reports

Home Media Magazine's research branch, Home Media Research, announced that the between January 1 and September 30 Blu-ray sold 2.6 million units versus a total sales of 1.4 million HD DVD discs.

This announcement, which indicates an almost 2 to 1 ratio of Blu-ray sales to HD DVD, was a bit of a killjoy for the HD DVD camp who were thrilled by the record setting success of Transformers on HD DVD, chronicled here at DailyTech.

Through September, a total of 3.01 million Blu-ray discs have been sold and 1.97 million HD DVDs have been sold according to Home Media Research.

HD DVD is the next generation hi-definition format developed by Toshiba Corp.  The format is also supported by Microsoft, whose Xbox 360 console has an expansion which allows it to play HD DVDs.  HD DVD also has the support of Time Warner Inc's Warner Bros, Paramount Pictures and DreamWorks Animation SKG Inc -- the latter two of which have signed deals to exclusively provide HD DVD for the next 18 months.

Blu-ray is owned and developed by Sony Corp.  It has exclusivity contracts with Walt Disney Co, Sony, News Corp's 20th Century Fox, and Lions Gate Entertainment.  It also recently signed an exclusive distribution deal with Blockbuster.

Blu-ray sales have been buoyed by the PS3's built in Blu-ray support.  HD DVD sales have been driven by better add-ons and interactive content, among other things.

Market research firm Adams Media Research provided insight into HD DVD's outlook following this less-than-great announcement for HD DVD.  The firm said strong sales from Transformers and other exclusive titles, stemming from its new Paramount and DreamWorks exclusivity pacts should invigorate sales and cause HD DVD to finish the year strong.

Tom Adams, the firm's president had this to say, "The [new exclusivity deals] definitely smooth out the edge that Blu-ray had in exclusive titles and they very much strengthen HD DVD's hand in the fourth quarter."

However, Adams Media Research is still predicting Blu-ray market victory for 2007, despite HD DVD's upswing. They predict that consumers will spend $186 million on purchasing Blu-Ray format discs, but only $91 million on HD DVD format discs.

Of course one mystery factor is dual mode players, such as Samsung's new player, releasing this holiday season.  As these players can play both formats, they seemingly make the format war a moot point from the consumer perspective. 

No one can truly say who will win the format war, but at least Blu-ray supporters can be cheered by this victory, following the news of the stunning Transformers HD DVD sales.


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Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By Mitch101 on 10/24/2007 9:26:47 AM , Rating: 3
If the X-Box 360 were sold with HD-DVD drives internally I bet this would be a different ballgame. Also since the 360 outsold the PS3 by a 5:1 margin this month. Of couse not everyone would get the HD-DVD version of the x-box but I would pay a little extra for one. Microsoft should have done this before the Halo3 release or at least before X-mas this year.

I figure if the price of the 360 is $100.00 extra to have the internal HD-DVD drive then I would see it as a game machine with HD-DVD movie abilities and willing to lose $100 should the format fail because it still plays great games.

On the other side of the fence people buying PS3's seem to say they do it because its a Blu-Ray player that plays games. Kind of having their priorities backwards as to what the PS3 should be considered a gaming console that plays Blu-Ray movies. I have a friend with a PS3 and not to beat a dead horse but he said if it werent for EA sports he would have put it on e-bay now. He isnt buying blu-ray movies because he is still considering selling it and getting a 360.




RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By Bioniccrackmonk on 10/24/2007 10:11:12 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Also since the 360 outsold the PS3 by a 5:1 margin this month


I don't know about 5:1, I will agree they sold more but mostly because Halo 3 is now available. Wait until MGS 4 or GT 5 of FF XIII is available and we will see how many units the PS3 sell.

quote:
If the X-Box 360 were sold with HD-DVD drives internally I bet this would be a different ballgame.


It would be since the major reason everyone likes the 360 more is the lower price. The HD DVD add on is $170 bucks, tack that onto the cost of all the 360 versions and suddenly the 360 is not too far off from the price of the PS3.

quote:
On the other side of the fence people buying PS3's seem to say they do it because its a Blu-Ray player that plays games. Kind of having their priorities backwards as to what the PS3 should be considered a gaming console that plays Blu-Ray movies


That is a pretty broad statement, so I guess you talked to everyone buying a PS3 since you said people buying the PS3. Well, maybe some of the people you know, but my friends and I use ours for gaming just as regularly as we use our 360's for games. In fact, the only Blu Ray movies I own are the five free ones during the promotion Sony was running and my friends don't own any.

quote:
but he said if it werent for EA sports he would have put it on e-bay now


Wow, if it weren't for EA sports. I think that is the first time I have heard that statement, ever. Just from the posts here on DT, most people think that EA sports are some of the worst franchises since all they do is update the graphics and add one or two new features every year to sell a whole new game. Tell your friend to put his on ebay because th 360 plays EA games better anyway.


RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By omnicronx on 10/24/2007 10:26:16 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
I don't know about 5:1
I do :) http://www.dailytech.com/Xbox+360+Beats+Wii+in+Sep...
XBOX360 US SALES: 527,000
PS3 US SALES: 119,400
4.4:1


RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By murphyslabrat on 10/24/2007 10:48:04 AM , Rating: 5
~9:2, ratios use whole numbers ;j

Another fact that will save your life someday...or not, so sue me for false advertising!


RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By CSMR on 10/24/2007 1:07:37 PM , Rating: 2
A Pythagorean I see. Tell me, what is the ratio whose square is 2:1?


RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By Chaser on 10/24/07, Rating: 0
RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By deeznuts on 10/24/2007 1:06:15 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Now take a look at PS3 sales their first year vs 360 sales its first year. No comparison.

What do you mean no comparison? Are you talking about US only or Worldwide? Because the numbers between the two consoles worldwide through their first year are quite similar. In the US the 360 is spanking the PS3.

Also, of note to this article, is that HD DVD is closer to BD in sales here than anywhere else in the world. I think in Europe it's 4:1 and in Japan something ridiculous, like 8:1.


By overzealot on 10/25/2007 1:09:35 AM , Rating: 2
HDDVD is getting spanked in Australia, because up until recently the only HDDVD player on the market was the X360 addon... so most/all of the retailers have more (or all) of their High-Def shelf space allocated to BLURAY discs.


By erikejw on 10/25/2007 2:05:16 AM , Rating: 2
4.4:1 is correct.
You forgot one part though.
It is US sales.

I wonder if it is the opposite in Japan, hmm.


RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By Mitch101 on 10/24/2007 10:34:09 AM , Rating: 4
Only FF7 was worth playing. Metal Gear Solid looks great but I never felt it had great gameplay. My buddy with the PS3 hasnt been thrilled with games outside of EA. Everyone wants to talk about the killer games coming but to date there has been only one really great game for the PS3 thats exclusive. Everything else can be found on the Wii and 360.

I dont believe many would buy the HD-DVD add on for the 360 at $170.00 when set top HD-DVD units were going for $199.00 recently. That I can agree on. For me I want an all in unit like the PS3 has done and Microsoft seems to be commiting to doing that.

The 360 outsold the PS3 5:1 during the halo launch plus the 360 has been selling for about a year before the PS3. But it comes back to the games selling the console. I dont recall the PS3 ever outselling the 360 maybe only at launch and those buying it say its because its the cheapest Blu-Ray player. No one is buying it saying for the great games.

Of the people I know who have considered a PS3 initially all say the same thing. Blu-Ray is not 100% the accepted format for High Definition. HD-DVD is gaining ground so they cant justify buying a PS3 as a high definition player. Also because Blu-Ray recently lost Universal studios to the HD-DVD side and they see that as weakness for Blu-Ray going forward. Secondly they dont see buying a PS3 because the game base isnt there compared to the 360. Its almost a double negative not a positive.

If the games were there for the PS3 then it would sell as a gaming system.

If Blu_ray was the undisputed format winner it would sell as a High Definition player but since Universal jumped from the Blu-Ray side to the HD-DVD side a lot of people dont feel it will win in the long run.

Sure Blu-Ray movie sales are up because of PS3 sales but HD-DVD did pretty darn good and isnt feeding off the game console sales at all like the PS3 has done. If the 360 puts in HD-DVD then whats the reason to buy a PS3?

Disney movies dont need HD because they are animations. Bambi in HD wont look significantly better in HD. Disney really only has about 3 titles worthy of HD. (Pirates, Pearl Harbor, and what Narnia?)

The PS2 was a great console where Sony did everything right but the PS3 is a flop. They overcomplicated it and game development is overpriced for developers. I love my PS2 but the PS3 I just dont see anything to get excited about.


RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By Murst on 10/24/2007 10:59:38 AM , Rating: 2
I'll certainly agree that games sell the console, and that is why the PS3 hasn't been selling that well. It is the same reason the XBox 360 did not sell that well last year. 2007 is the year for early PS3 adopters. 2008 will be the year where games will get people to buy the PS3 just as 2007 was that kind of year for the 360.

Also, where did you come up with the statement that "HD-DVD is gaining ground"? If anything, it was BR that was behind since they released later. BR has had to catch up to HD-DVD, which they did, and were ahead ever since. The margin is only getting larger. However, unless something drastic happens, I just don't see either format disappearing. The future is dual-format players.


By GreenyMP on 10/24/2007 11:32:35 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Blu-Ray recently lost Universal studios to the HD-DVD


Check your facts. If when you say recently, you mean at the onset of the format war, then you are correct. But Universal was the original HD-DVD exclusive.

And from what I understand, even the article is incorrect about Warner. Warner is the only major studio that is still not exclusive. On October 5 many rumors were circling that Warner was about to announce Blu-ray exclusivity. Now almost 20 days later, it seems like the rumors were unfounded.


RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By Belard on 10/25/2007 7:12:47 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Disney movies dont need HD because they are animations. Bambi in HD wont look significantly better in HD. Disney really only has about 3 titles worthy of HD. (Pirates, Pearl Harbor, and what Narnia?)


You don't know much about animation... Anime, Animation, cartoons, even 3-D Animation (Let's see Disney/Pixar's Toy Story, Finding Nemo, The Incredables, Cars, Bugs life, Monster's Inc, etc) need higher def to look their best, more so than "Real Life" people/backgrounds. This is why a TV with 480p looks far more life-like than any game (today) in 1600x1200... even with 24bit color.

Watching Finding Nemo at the theater is far more amazing than on a typical 32" TV (Reg Def or HighDef).

Bambi, digitally restored - will look a bit nicer in HD, but not as good as a modern animation or 3D Animated movie.

Sony's gamble in including BR is a good one... yes, a bit more expensive unit... but in the end, still CHEAPER than an XBoX360.
1) Some SONY games are already bigger than a single DVD disc - geez, even some Xbox360 games require more than one disc.

2) It's its own anti-Piracy format - especially if BR was to lose the format war (which I doubt)

3) The price of a BR Player is about $50~100 more than the HD-DVD, and theres more choices of BR players than HD-DVD.

4) BR holds almost twice as much data.

Today's prices:

$400 = Xbox 360 Halo edition (20gb HD/1 gamepad, 10GBfree)
$400 = PS3/40 (40GB HD, wireless networking)

To add HD-DVD & Wireless networking, this xbox goes up to $680! Or get the original white version, its $350/630 - and both are way louder than a PS3 and don't include the cost of a cooling system.

So the new bottom end PS3 at $400 is easily a cheaper system than the Xbox360... Even the $500 80gb version with added Slot readers(not a big deal) and included game is cheaper than ANY new Xbox360 when adding a HD-DVD drive and especially adding the wireless networking as well.

Upgrading the basic Xbox360 (20gb) to a larger drive is easily $180!! ($100 to add an HD to the HD-less xboxes) while SONY - you can replace the HD yourself in a few minutes with ANY DRIVE you want ($50 for typical 60GB or $180 for a 250GB!).


By Locutus465 on 10/25/2007 9:43:36 AM , Rating: 2
Where can one get a $400 PS3 today? I just did a quick check on amazon and only came up with 60 and 80GB models both priced at 499... Also your price on the 360 with 20GB hard drive is $50 more expensive, it's $350. You know what the beauty of the 360 is? If you wish to add the extra cost of HD-DVD you may (I did), if you wish to add wireless you may (I did not), but no one is forcing you to do either. If you want a basic game system period, no fancy HD-DVD, no need for wireless, then you can get a basic 360 with everything you need to get started (including 5 games) for $270 today, this very second if you wish.

Now if Microsoft decided to add integrated HD-DVD to improve the out of the box multimedia capabilities of the system (something they could do today w/o affecting the curren price structure one iota) that would just be a bonus...


RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By Locutus465 on 10/24/2007 10:38:26 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
I don't know about 5:1, I will agree they sold more but mostly because Halo 3 is now available. Wait until MGS 4 or GT 5 of FF XIII is available and we will see how many units the PS3 sell.


Sony has never outsold microsoft (to the best of my knowlege) in any market outside Japan... The situation is mearly that much worse for sony now that Halo 3 is here.


RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By Murst on 10/24/2007 11:03:40 AM , Rating: 2
According to the latest numbers from http://www.vgchartz.com/ , the only market that the 360 is outselling the PS3 in is the Americas. The PS3 is leading everywhere else in the world in recent sales.


RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By Mitch101 on 10/24/2007 11:31:22 AM , Rating: 2
I think you need to look at more than just recent sales.

3.79M Others 360 Total Sales
1.76M Others PS3 Total Sales

Only 2.03 Million more PS3 sales to go to catch the 360 in places other than the US.

7.88M America 360 Total Sales
2.12M America PS3 Total Sales

Only 5.76 Million more to go to catch the 360 in the US.


RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By Murst on 10/24/2007 11:52:41 AM , Rating: 2
See my reply to mcturkey below.


RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By mcturkey on 10/24/2007 11:37:44 AM , Rating: 5
By your own link, the only place where the PS3 is ahead of the 360 is Japan (not "leading" like you try to claim - the Wii is doing that). Japan is not "everywhere else in the world."

360
0.45M Japan
7.88M America
3.79M Others

PS3
1.24M Japan
2.12M America
1.76M Others


RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By Murst on 10/24/2007 11:52:07 AM , Rating: 2
You need to look at the post I was replying to. I never claimed Sony has sold more consoles in the rest of the world (that hasn't happened yet outside of Japan).

However, we were talking about sales numbers, and the latest sales numbers show them ahead. That was the context of the post I was replying to.

So yes, you are correct that Sony is trailing in total sales in every country not called Japan. However, the most recent sales numbers show them selling more consoles than the XBox 360 everywhere outside the Americas.


RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By Locutus465 on 10/24/2007 1:49:47 PM , Rating: 2
Not sure why you were voted down, technically you were correct in that the x-box has been out sold in specific quarters by the PS3 out side of japan (but never in N. America).

That said, the OP I was replying to is still pretty far off on his remarks... Price is not the only reason why the x-box is performing better than PS3 (yes, ingeneral x-box is still pwning PS3 everywhere outside of japan). X-Box has a game library which is kind of a pre-requisite for selling consoles... While yes, the PS3 technically also has a game library, the general consenses is that it isn't a very compelling one, and generally lacks exclusives making the $400 and up (is it even yet available at that price?) price tag justifyable, or at least justifiable to the mass market in general. X-Box also already has a very mature online component which offers a lot of great functionality, and content (particularly in the form of Video Market Place).

If someone happens to perfer PS3, that's fine and that's their business and you'll never catch me saying anything against them (one wishes no one would :P). But by the same token, you can't go around the internet crapping on the x-box saying there's nothing compelling about the platform besides a lower cost of entry, this simply isn't true.


RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By Murst on 10/24/2007 1:59:50 PM , Rating: 2
I'll agree with your points there, except the one about crapping on the xbox. I don't think I've ever done that. Each has its strengths and weaknesses.

As to being voted down... who cares. There's people who'll vote you down for simply implying that the 360 is not the best thing since sliced bread (same applies to PS3, Wii, whatever). At least it means that they've read the post (well, maybe).

:)


By Locutus465 on 10/24/2007 2:07:25 PM , Rating: 2
you really did not, but Bioniccrackmonk certainly was trying to... Nothing is more fustrating to read then someone spewing a bunch of BS because they happen to think their console is the only one worth owning... Well, perhaps having the best buy salesman try to sell me a 2 year warrentee because the x-box 3 year one only applyed to the "death ray" was a tad more fustrating... But then again, it was also more amusing at the same time :)


RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By Murst on 10/24/07, Rating: 0
RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By BansheeX on 10/24/2007 10:39:06 AM , Rating: 3
For your presumption to make any sense, you would need to prove that a HD-DVD 360 for $100 more would actually sell at the ratios you're giving, which are for a much cheaper console without the feature. Not only that, people who wanted HD-DVD can already spend $100 extra and get it, so how do you come to the conclusion that a built-in version that is also $100 will greatly increase demand for discs, insomuch that it would "be a different ballgame?"

I think you're turning circles in your own mind trying to dissuade yourself from the reality of the PS3 being a great all-in-one device. Though the price of the PS3 as a blu-ray player has probably resulted in sales to people who don't play games, it is a gross and self-serving exaggeration to say that the majority of PS3 owners bought the system with movies in mind first. Even if it were true, who are you to tell someone who likes movies slightly more than games that their priorities are backwards? Why should gaming be everyone's number one priority? Because it's yours?


RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By Mitch101 on 10/24/2007 10:50:59 AM , Rating: 2
I was at best buy this week and a sales person I talked to when I mentioned blu-ray suggested buying a PS3 because its cheaper and plays games. Secondly people here in DT have said the same thing. Get a PS3 because its a blu-ray player that plays games.

I would certainly pay $100 more for a HD-DVD version of a 360. I wouldnt pay much more because then I would just consider a set top HD-DVD player instead. I feel over half the cost of a HD-DVD player is not the drive itself but the electronics around the device as I have seen outpost sell HD-DVD drives for $129.00. $100.00 would be a fair price and there is savings to Microsoft not putting in the existing dvd drive which is probably not even a $10.00 device.


By darkpaw on 10/24/2007 11:05:30 AM , Rating: 2
My boss has never owned a gaming machine in his life and bought the PS3 primarily as a BlueRay player. He's actually picked up a few games to go with it, but there are plenty of non-gamers that buy it just for the movie capabilities (I'm sure it was even more true before standalone players dropped in price).

As for me, playing movies is about the only thing I do with my PS3 and I am a devoted gamer. I've only got one game for it, and if I had a 360 at the time I probably would have bought it for the 360. I have yet to play a single demo of a PS3 exclusive game that would convince me to pay $30 better yet $60 to buy it.


RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By BansheeX on 10/24/2007 3:10:52 PM , Rating: 2
Let me try to make this clearer for you. Saying that a PS3 is a blu-ray player that can play games is the way someone who cares more about movies would describe it. Someone who cared more about games would say it's a game console that can also play movies. Do you see how both are reasonable depending on the person saying it? I see what you're trying to do, though. Your personal negative opinions about the PS3 as a gaming platform (irrational, they're practically the same barring a few exclusives) are creating a false irony in which you are portraying the value of the PS3's movie playback as being greater than its gaming capabilities, and you're using the first person's viewpoint as a way to validate it. Very sneaky, I can see how this became the viral rhetoric of choice from 360 fans.


RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By Locutus465 on 10/24/2007 3:33:01 PM , Rating: 2
At risk of being a sneaky MS fan... One would hope that the function of a game console would be clear... This "false irony" is not a negative for sony though, it gets PS3's into homes, which greatly increases the chances of owners purchasing games down the road once they have games people feel are worth purchasing.


By jak3676 on 10/24/2007 4:06:31 PM , Rating: 2
Totally agree. Sony may not have hit the traditional market, but that doesn't really matter. That would similar to the argument that the Wii isn't a "next gen" gaming console. Sure its techinically inferior to the other platforms, but its also outselling them by huge margins. you can try to categorize things however you like, but in the end the only stat that really matters is profit.


RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By Mitch101 on 10/24/07, Rating: 0
By jak3676 on 10/24/2007 4:19:54 PM , Rating: 2
*disclaimer that I own neither a PS3 nor a 360

The PS3 may be a flop of a gaming machine, but that actually matter very little to Sony. It has been and probably will continue to be THE major force behind blu-ray sales. Sony could have cut the blu-ray part out of the PS3 easy enough and probably been pretty price competative with the 360, but that was never their main goal. Sony really needs the PS3 to be a dual purpose machine in order to have a change at winning the format war. MS doesn't seem to really care about the format war - that's not their goal either. So to that end, the PS3 and 360 are clearly competing against other (and the Wii for that matter), but they are all being pushed by their parent company for completly different reasons. It seems like none of the PS3 haters can see that. You can't measure the PS3's success or failure based on the same parameters as the 360.


RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By leexgx on 10/25/2007 10:05:59 PM , Rating: 2
PS3 now $400 (40gb model) yes it cant play PS2 games but do i own any ps2 games no if i Did i allso own an PS2 so that make the point mute in my view

i am waiting untill X-mas so to see if the price of the PS3 can go down if not i buy it any way getting the money ready for it any way (i have an TV for it by X-mas as well)


RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By Locutus465 on 10/24/2007 10:53:04 AM , Rating: 2
Theres no way to tell if a built in HD-DVD drive would actually affect the cost of the console at all... At $169 we can be pretty damn sure MS is making money on this thing (they're not going to bite the bullet on an accessory), the real question is what is the percentage profit... One would think that being an accessory, it's probabel that the percentage will be fairly decent (this is the case for most accessories since the main unit is sold at a loss). So if MS decided to basically toss it into the Elite and not change the price at all, this would certainly be a huge gain for both Microsoft and Toshiba.


RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By darkpaw on 10/24/2007 11:06:43 AM , Rating: 2
They are probably making at least 100% profit on the thing. Considering consumers can buy the bare drive off ebay for $70, you know MS is getting them cheaper then that and the cost fot the case is almost nill.


RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By TomZ on 10/24/2007 11:25:43 AM , Rating: 2
Profit percentage (margin) is typically calculated as the percentage of the selling price that is profit. 100% profit would mean that the production cost is zero. I don't think that's what you mean, right?


By Locutus465 on 10/24/2007 11:52:28 AM , Rating: 2
I didn't have a chance to reply before (actually a busy morning at work), but yeah... what he thinks the hd-dvd profit margin is is completely out of wack... For something like this I would expect perhaps 30% to 40% on the high side.

But still, I would wager the cost of integrating HD-DVD into the elite to be small enough that it would be very tempting for MS to throw it into the Elite SKU with out altering the price one little bit. It would be silly for MS to introduce a new SKU now.


By darkpaw on 10/24/2007 12:12:04 PM , Rating: 2
Yah, I'm a bit tired today too (a teething 10 month old does that to ya). Basically I think they are probably selling it for about double the cost to make it (100% markup, 50% GP), but judging by some of the retailer sales on it I bet the retailer markup is pretty good too (as typical for accessories), so MS isn't seeing all of that.

In the end though, if MS was going to integrate the HD-DVD into the eliete, their only real cost is the bare drive. Since we know they sell for around $70 on ebay, MS' cost for integrating it into the 360 might increase the total cost about $50-60. I don't think thats too bad at all.


RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By cochy on 10/24/2007 12:55:41 PM , Rating: 2
Why would Microsoft do this? How much are they invested into HD-DVD? Not much. If it fails and Blu-ray wins, no big deal for Microsoft, they will just start selling Blu-ray add-ons instead. They even stated they would do this.

Sony is in a much different situation as they are heavily invested into Blu-ray, so they proceeded to use the PS3 to advance adoption. They've said it's the best decision they've ever made.

Bottom line: Don't count on Microsoft to decide the high-def format war.


RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By mdogs444 on 10/24/2007 1:35:18 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Bottom line: Don't count on Microsoft to decide the high-def format war.


How about with the absolute failures of MiniDisc and BetaMax....

Botton Line: Don't count on Sony to decide the high-def format war.

(unless you are counting on Sony to drown out because of their forced proprietary formats history).


RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By cochy on 10/24/2007 3:46:19 PM , Rating: 2
I actually wasn't making any indications on Sony. I was just contrasting Microsoft investment to HD-DVD to Sony's in Blu-ray.


RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By Oregonian2 on 10/24/2007 1:35:21 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Why would Microsoft do this? How much are they invested into HD-DVD? Not much. If it fails and Blu-ray wins, no big deal for Microsoft, they will just start selling Blu-ray add-ons instead. They even stated they would do this.


Two reasons.

1. They've favored HD-DVD because of DRM issues that I recall.

2. It would be a way to respond toe PS3 price cuts without cutting their price -- instead add in the HD-Drive "free".


By Locutus465 on 10/24/2007 2:37:34 PM , Rating: 2
Plus politics... "The enemy" supports BD, so they'll support HD-DVD...


RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By BZDTemp on 10/24/2007 1:59:48 PM , Rating: 2
Microsoft is toying with HD-DVD for three reasons.

1. It helps the 360 that there is the HD-DVD vs Blue Ray "war" else Blue Ray would be an even better argument for getting a PS3.

2. It's a way to mess with Sony and Microsoft has the cash for that.

3. Microsoft want the HD disc war because the longer it goes on the more ready the world will be to leave physical media behind and go on-line where Microsoft has a strong position.

The #3 is really the main thing for Microsoft just like they are in the console business not so much for the games but for getting control over the living room media machine.


RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By cochy on 10/24/2007 3:18:01 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The #3 is really the main thing for Microsoft just like they are in the console business not so much for the games but for getting control over the living room media machine.


Uh no. The console video game industry is over $6 billion. They quite simply want a piece of that pie. There's no mysterious motive. Video games are huge, almost as big if not getting bigger than Hollywood.

By contrast PC video game sales are lower than $2 billion if I remember correctly.


By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/24/2007 3:48:11 PM , Rating: 2
Well if you break it out by platform. Wii. X360, PS3, PC, each has about a 2 billion dollar market give or take. "Consoles" is a bad way of putting it since they are just different hardware platforms, break it out by console, not "Console vs PC". Just because you produce a game on one platform doesn't mean it works on all platforms. There is more work required to port from a X360 to a PS3 than from an X360 to a PC and vice versa. PC is just another "Console" platform to port to. The only difference with PC is that it's hardware is not defined, closed system consoles are.


By jak3676 on 10/24/2007 4:24:38 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, MS clearly wants a piece of that money, but they are also trying to move beyond just that. Just as Sony is trying to get the PS3 into both the console market and into the high-def market. The Wii is probably the only current machine that isn't trying to do much more that dominate the console market. Nintendo is also probably doing the most to expand that market - but that's a whole other article for some other time.


By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/24/2007 3:44:14 PM , Rating: 2
Don't forget Microsoft sells the software for authoring HD DVD Menu's. HD DVD Code is based on .net


RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By crystal clear on 10/24/2007 2:56:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Xbox 360 sales could change that.


Xbox + HD DVD was plain speculation with no foundations whatsoever-built on rumours thats all.

An article on this appears on D.T. today.

Wishful thinking thats all......


By Locutus465 on 10/24/2007 3:02:33 PM , Rating: 2
More than that, there have been such rumors in the past which were promptly squashed by MS... This time the source is known (Toshiba) and MS has been absolutly silent... While no, this is not confirmation, it certainly is intreging.


RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By 3v1lkr0w on 10/25/2007 5:25:07 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
On the other side of the fence people buying PS3's seem to say they do it because its a Blu-Ray player that plays games.


Where are you hearing this from??? Cause I know about a month or 2 ago I read an article that said 60%+ people who own a PS3 dont even realize it is a Blu-Ray Player too (dont remeber what website, but it was either this one, engadget, or slashdot). I bought my PS3 for the games, the Blu-Ray player is a nice extra. Just like my PS2, the DVD player was a nice extra, its not the reason I bought the system, but I do use it.

quote:
Also since the 360 outsold the PS3 by a 5:1 margin this month

In Sept the 360 has outsold the PS3 by more than it ever has, but thats also cause Sept saw the release of Halo 3.

quote:
I figure if the price of the 360 is $100.00 extra to have the internal HD-DVD drive then I would see it as a game machine with HD-DVD movie abilities and willing to lose $100 should the format fail because it still plays great games.

If they ever did anything like adding a HD-DVD drive (which they said they would never do) They would add it to the elite system, which as of right now over at ebgames.com is 449 with 2 games. So If you add 100 for the player which is currently selling for about 170, thats a 180 GB Xbox 360 with 2 games and a HD DVD player that has a 1 in 3 chance to get the RRoD for 550. The most expensive PS3 is only 500 dollars now. Isnt one of the main selling points of the 360 is that its cheaper than the PS3. If they did this, then it would no longer be cheaper. Also...no I am not a fanboy, I am a gamer, I have both the PS3 and the 360, and even the Nintendo, so before anyone tries to call me a sony fanboy, just know you would be mistaken.


RE: Xbox 360 sales could change that.
By leexgx on 10/25/2007 10:11:27 PM , Rating: 2
that review was an joke age group was to wide was most likey hijack some how by HD-dvd lovers in some way (cant find the link to it but was poor any ways)

its very easy to tell its an BR player as it is plastered all over the box and the seller of it allso probly tell you that as well


By euclidean on 10/25/2007 7:57:24 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Kind of having their priorities backwards as to what the PS3 should be considered a gaming console that plays Blu-Ray movies.


The PS3 was released as a Media Center machine. Sony was wanting the PS3 to be bought as a replacement for all of your media devices. Stereo/DVD/Blue-ray/Games....it's not suppose to be a Console that has some support for watching movies....so all those people were actually buying it for what it was...


3.01 vs. 1.97
By Verran on 10/24/2007 9:59:47 AM , Rating: 5
Ooooh. Wow. That's a total of less than 5 million HD titles sold across both platforms in 9 months. Meanwhile, Transformers alone sold 8.3 million regular DVDs in under a week.

These HD vs BR debates wouldn't seem nearly as intense if you listed equivalent DVD numbers in them.

It's fun to watch the media make this Hi-Def battle into some sort of epic struggle when in reality 95%+ of the consumers still don't even care.




RE: 3.01 vs. 1.97
By soulbabel on 10/24/2007 10:14:25 AM , Rating: 2
Alot of people are waiting for the format war to end before adapting to high def. Also, I don't think anyone is still worried about adapting from VHS to DVD anymore, it's kind of a safe bet.


RE: 3.01 vs. 1.97
By omnicronx on 10/24/2007 10:17:56 AM , Rating: 2
People just don't believe me when i say that High-Def movies, will not have the same effect that DVD's had on the market. It will probably take years to get the same market penetration DVD had/has. Lots of people just won't care about the better video quality. Lots of people don't will not get rid of their existing DVD library, and some will just continue to buy DVD's as the prices bottom out. See you in 7 years, DVD/HIGH-DEF parity.


RE: 3.01 vs. 1.97
By TomZ on 10/24/2007 10:39:45 AM , Rating: 2
I agree - there is a huge quality difference going from VHS->DVD, plus the random access aspect. Consumers are going to take a bit longer to warm up to hi-def formats since the relative benefits are not quite so compelling.


RE: 3.01 vs. 1.97
By mcturkey on 10/24/2007 11:47:27 AM , Rating: 3
Keep in mind that it took about six years for DVD to start really gaining momentum. The DVD spec was finalized in 1995, and players began showing up not long after. It wasn't until 2003 that it matched the VHS format for sales.

So all in all, I'd say the current sales rate is probably right on par with the early state of DVD adoption, if not slightly better.


RE: 3.01 vs. 1.97
By darkpaw on 10/24/2007 1:27:38 PM , Rating: 2
One reason is that sub $200 DVD players did hit the market until right around 2000, but HD-DVD players are already there.

That said, most people really don't see a reason to upgrade. There are few people that own a 1080P set (although that is increasing) and only a tiny number of people that own an audio system that can do anything with the higher quality on the HD formats.


RE: 3.01 vs. 1.97
By Locutus465 on 10/24/2007 2:27:06 PM , Rating: 2
Sub $200 stand alone players? The cheapest thing I can find on the market right now is the A2 at just over $200 (just a hair over on amazon but still)...

Still, way cheaper than BD... With greater HD-TV penetration I think you'd see the markter shift drastically twards HD-DVD.


RE: 3.01 vs. 1.97
By wallijonn on 10/24/2007 12:28:41 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
People just don't believe me when i say that High-Def movies, will not have the same effect that DVD's had on the market. It will probably take years to get the same market penetration DVD had/has. Lots of people just won't care about the better video quality.


What I predict is that the movie studios will degrade regular DVD quality. For example, take the latest Fantasic Four DVD movie. It has Full Frame on one side and Wide Screen on the other. The movie is 90 minutes long, but many trailers and languages are encoded along with one or two commentaries. That is a lot to squeeze onto a single layer and the visual quality is sure to suffer. People will then need to upgrade to HD to get the full visual quality. Personally, I was very disappointed that the last Fantastic Four was no dual sided, the image was slightly soft, but nowhere as soft as the Transformers DVD.


RE: 3.01 vs. 1.97
By Locutus465 on 10/24/2007 11:10:11 AM , Rating: 2
They're intense because people on both sides of the isle feel very strongly that their side should win and now is the time when this is going to be decided.

For instance people like me want HD-DVD to win because we feel:

1). It's already cheaper, and will get even cheaper faster
2). We feel it's the same quality blueray offers
3). We like the lax DRM, no region locking
4). In some cases we're also x-box fans, which x-box currently doesn't offer cheap blueray upgrades so that helps the choice...

Blueray camp:
1). See price as temporarly and are either willing to wait or are in a position to pay a (currently significant) premium over HD-DVD.
2). Feel some how that Blueray is actually giving them better quality.
3). Beleive the technology is superior due to greater desity per layer
4). Sometimes playstation fans, which would make the choose blueray for the same reason x-box fans go with HD-DVD.

In all cases we're probably all early adopters to some extent (in my case I was only able to afford things like HD-TV's only recently), we have some level of disposable income above and beyond the average american family, and we're technology enthusiests.


RE: 3.01 vs. 1.97
By Chaser on 10/24/2007 11:44:39 AM , Rating: 2
How about more capacity? Anyone remember that feature?

I can't speak for everyone but for me regarding the "next generation DVD standard" would I cheerfully settle for HD DVD that has 40% LESS capacity than a Blue Ray Disc?

And one would think on this forum MORE matters. More memory, more CPU processing power, more hard drive capacity. But for some of you apparently less is now best. No thanks.


RE: 3.01 vs. 1.97
By TomZ on 10/24/2007 11:57:49 AM , Rating: 1
Capacity is not so much of an issue because the disc formats are not fixed to a certain layer. That permits, e.g., a 50GB HD-DVD disc to be compared to a 30GB BD. The fact that the HD-DVD disc has more layers is pretty irrelevant to the purchaser.

Or in other words, HD-DVD can make the capacity-per-layer difference irrelevant by making sure it always has more layers available than BD.


RE: 3.01 vs. 1.97
By BansheeX on 10/24/2007 3:45:38 PM , Rating: 1
I tried to explain this last time and was apparently ignored. The storage density of either format per layer has virtually no implications for movie quality. But when you get to recordables, the implications become very important since it is more likely that the winner will decide the recordable format as well. So considering the cost and durability issues associated with added layers in recordables, which are NOT PRESSED, HD-DVD winning seems like a far less attractive future, because you're essentially looking at 25gb mainstream discs vs 15gb mainstream discs.


RE: 3.01 vs. 1.97
By TomZ on 10/25/2007 4:43:46 AM , Rating: 1
Yes, I certainly agree that for data storage, more capacity per layer is important. But, as we also agree, for movies it doesn't matter much. I was mainly focusing on the movie aspect since far and away that is what most people are using next-gen discs for.


RE: 3.01 vs. 1.97
By Locutus465 on 10/24/2007 2:17:59 PM , Rating: 1
point 3 regarding greater density per layer covers this... Though technically with tripple layer HD-DVD BD has no total capacity advantage over HD-DVD (actually 3 layer HD-DVD has a greater total capacity).


Compiled List of HD Sales
By deeznuts on 10/24/2007 1:10:06 PM , Rating: 3
The following link is from a blu-ray forum, but ignore that and look at the links the original poster has included, which is to the weekly Home Media Magazine publication. They complile a list and update it each week, with a convenient place to look at the numbers.

Just in case, nobody gets it, WE - Week End. YTD - C'mon now. SI - Since Inception.

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=8608

Here are just the last two weeks
quote:
Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending October 14th

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/questex/hom102107/

WE: BD-71% HDD-29% YTD: BD-66% HDD-34% SI: BD-61% HDD-39%

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending October 7th

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/ques...1407/index....

WE: BD-68% HDD-32% YTD: BD-66% HDD-34% SI: BD-61% HDD-39%




RE: Compiled List of HD Sales
By softwiz on 10/24/07, Rating: -1
RE: Compiled List of HD Sales
By deeznuts on 10/24/2007 3:03:38 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
If you exclude the PS3 and the 360 add-on, HD DVD players make up for a 70% of the standalone player market share.
Why would you exclude it? The only reason to exclude those numbers would be to ... skew the numbers in favor of HD DVD?

Fact of the matter is, the end game is media. Toshiba and what ever other manufacturer benefits from HD DVD standalone sales. Studios could give two shits about that. They want to know what discs are selling.

yes the attach rate for standalone players on both sides are much better than the 360 add-on as well as the PS3. But attach rate is just one half of the formula. Multiply attach rate by number of players, standalone or not, and you get media sales, of which Blu-Ray is winning, and winning heartily in the US. Overseas it's not even a contest anymore.

Oh, and if you're going to quote figures, please make them accurate or post links. According to NPD, YTD sales as of Oct. 11, for standalone players were 53% HD DVD, 44% Blu-Ray. Note, this does NOT include PS3 sales.
http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6488493.htm...
So technically the sales are pretty close, add in the PS3, and blu-ray is able to overcome lower attach rates.


RE: Compiled List of HD Sales
By softwiz on 10/24/2007 3:29:42 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Why would you exclude it? The only reason to exclude those numbers would be to ... skew the numbers in favor of HD DVD?


Skewing the numbers was hardly my intention. As I can benefit from both formats, it doesn't feel compelled to do so.

My post was focusing on "standalone players" and I don't consider the PS3 a part of that group since it's a multi-function device rather solely a movie player. With a "standalone" device you know exactly what a consumer is buying it for. Had I not focused on "standalone players" only, I'd likely see your point.

Whether it's a standalone Blu-ray or HD DVD player that being bought you don't have to wonder what they plan to do with it when they get it home. With the PS3 though, it's anyone's guess. It's all guesswork and speculation, but I would never dispute that the PS3 is used to play purchased blu-ray movies. Due to it's very nature though, the PS3 skews Blu-ray statistics because of what it is.

If I was really trying to skew the numbers I likely would have opted to not have excluded the 360 HD DVD add-on as well (which is defintely not standalone).


RE: Compiled List of HD Sales
By softwiz on 10/24/2007 3:36:17 PM , Rating: 1
This is a duplicate post. Read the reply to your original post.


RE: Compiled List of HD Sales
By deeznuts on 10/25/2007 12:58:36 PM , Rating: 2
Whoa, weird double posting going on lol.

But, no I didn't mean to imply you were intending to skew the numbers. Not at all. I just don't see any point of viewing standalone players except ... to view the sales of standalone players. The PS3 is the x-factor mucking this all up. Unless you are just a hardware manufacturer or analyst, you don't really care about that. If your goal is to analyze the media format war, well you have to look at the media. Sales and rentals. Yes the attach rate is lower for Blu-Ray, because while some are buying the PS3 for BD, a lot if not all are buying for games.

Therefore, you must look at media sales, or total hardware multiplied by attach rate. There is no guess work if we are analyzing media sales, those are plain to see.


RE: Compiled List of HD Sales
By deeznuts on 10/24/2007 3:03:39 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If you exclude the PS3 and the 360 add-on, HD DVD players make up for a 70% of the standalone player market share.
Why would you exclude it? The only reason to exclude those numbers would be to ... skew the numbers in favor of HD DVD?

Fact of the matter is, the end game is media. Toshiba and what ever other manufacturer benefits from HD DVD standalone sales. Studios could give two shits about that. They want to know what discs are selling.

yes the attach rate for standalone players on both sides are much better than the 360 add-on as well as the PS3. But attach rate is just one half of the formula. Multiply attach rate by number of players, standalone or not, and you get media sales, of which Blu-Ray is winning, and winning heartily in the US. Overseas it's not even a contest anymore.

Oh, and if you're going to quote figures, please make them accurate or post links. According to NPD, YTD sales as of Oct. 11, for standalone players were 53% HD DVD, 44% Blu-Ray. Note, this does NOT include PS3 sales.
http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6488493.htm...
So technically the sales are pretty close, add in the PS3, and blu-ray is able to overcome lower attach rates.


RE: Compiled List of HD Sales
By jak3676 on 10/24/2007 4:01:07 PM , Rating: 2
Disks sold may be the most inexpensive part of the equation, but they are also the easiest and best to measure. You could also look at discs rented (by Netflix for example).

Trying to look at stand-alone players is basically impossible because of the PS3. You cannot exclude it as many of the PS3 buyers are clearly buying it to serve as their primary high def movie player. By the same argument you cannot exclude the 360 HD add on (it's not like anyone is buying it because a game requires it). You also can't exclude all the HD players that Toshiba and others are including with their laptops. Sony, Toshiba and others are clearly attaching their format on machines that don't actually require it in a push to get their format adopted. This is also part of a general blending of all types of consumer electronics. Tying to exclude PS3 sales as "not stand alone blu-ray players" is about like trying exclude iPhones as not really MP3 players or not real cell phones. It may not have fit the old definitions, but it surely does now.

Whether you like it or not Sony has indefinitely combined their blue ray player with the PS3. No, they didn't have to but by doing so they gain a quick jump in market share. Sony has much more to win/lose with their Blu-Ray format than they do with the PS3 gaming console so you probably won't ever see a version of the PS3 without it.

Does this make for a "fair" comparison? Or is it "fair" for Sony to this? That argument is totally academic and without merit because Sony already did it. That line has forever been blurred. No amount of trying to rationalize it makes any difference. The ability to measure "stand alone" players is gone and any ability to try to derive trend information is also gone. If you want to place a "*" behind the Blu-Ray players to note that it includes PS3 sales, go ahead. I don't even own a PS3 or Blu-Ray player, but trying to pull out the PS3 numbers when that is obviously having a huge impact on the market just makes you look like a unreasonable fan boy.

In the end you should probably find a better statistic to measure like total movie sales or movie rentals. Those numbers still mean something.


RE: Compiled List of HD Sales
By Guyver on 10/24/2007 2:19:35 PM , Rating: 2
The Blu-Ray and HD-DVD versions of 300 combined accounted for 5% of all discs sales for that movie.

A little over 1% of all HDTV owners own a HD Player.

Around the middle of this year, Blu-Ray and HD-DVD reached a "milestone" for outselling VHS tapes this year.

Translation: The format war is a skirmish at best. Bragging about stand alone player sales or disc sales is really pointless. Until I see people jumping on board with either format, this is just hype when neither format has any real market share.

I also think that the 2:1 sales ratio over HD-DVD is rather poor when you account for all PS3s as Blu-Ray players (at Sony's insistance). From what I have read, the PS3 lacks any great game. There's no Halo 3 killer. Yeah, yeah. I know. They'll make one eventually. But what do millions of bored PS3 gamers do in the mean time? Maybe buy a couple Blu-Rays? What happens when the PS3 launches a Halo 3 killer? Will gamers be buying movies like they currently are (averaging less than 1 disc per player)? Or will gamers keep the sales momentum going for Blu-Ray rather than playing games?

It's all too soon to say. Until I see someone actually concede this is a small war, then whatever comes out of that person's mouth is probably spin.


By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/24/2007 3:56:30 PM , Rating: 2
A Skirmish would be correct, could also call it a fire fight. I like the sound of a fire fight better =/. Either way, this HD DVD/ Blu Ray back and forth will continue for atleast another 2 years minimum.


RE: Compiled List of HD Sales
By Locutus465 on 10/24/2007 4:48:20 PM , Rating: 2
If the covanant and flood couldn't kill master cheif I doubt some sony samari will ;)

Just couldn't resist :)


RE: Compiled List of HD Sales
By BansheeX on 10/24/2007 5:08:58 PM , Rating: 2
Yay, more awful logic. Bored PS3 gamers resulting in higher blu-ray disc sales? Yeah, because overhyped exclusives which represent 5% of either system's game library is all that's fun and all there is to play... Get a clue, already. I'm seriously tired of this viral rhetoric which makes no sense.


Article from "Fudzilla"
By mdogs444 on 10/24/2007 9:52:42 AM , Rating: 2
Im not trying to fan out one format or the other, just posting an article on this topic that was put there today on Fudzilla.

quote:
Analysts predict Blu-ray will retreat

Analysts are predicting that HD-DVD movie titles will start to take ground from Blu-ray in the next few months.

Currently Blu-ray DVD titles outsell rival HD-DVD titles by almost two to one. But the current prediction is that additional HD-DVD support and new hit releases will "transform" the high-definition DVD battle score in the fourth quarter.

Gerry Kaufhold, analyst with In-Stat research firm, told Reuters that newly released HD-DVD titles with new advanced Web-enabled features, such as Paramount's "Transformers", will help.

Paramount Home Video reported that "Transformers" had the biggest debut of any high-definition titles, selling over 100,000 HD-DVDs on Oct 16, its first day of release.


http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_conte...




RE: Article from "Fudzilla"
By soulbabel on 10/24/2007 10:08:38 AM , Rating: 2
The winner will be decided by who has the best movies in their format, and I checked out HD DVD's upcoming releases in the next few months and saw very few exclusives to get excited over. There are alot of Warner titles that are released on both formats, in which case I tend to buy the Bluray versions because I like that antiscratch coating additionally protecting my movie collection. The only way HD-DVD will win this war is if they bribe the rest of the movie studios exclusively to their side.


RE: Article from "Fudzilla"
By NullSubroutine on 10/24/2007 11:35:31 PM , Rating: 2
just so you know blueray needs anti-scratch coating because the data is .1mm from the surface where dvd/hd dvd is .8mm.

some companies are putting anti-scratching on dvd/hd dvds as welll (i think dont quote me).


RE: Article from "Fudzilla"
By soulbabel on 10/26/2007 7:17:20 AM , Rating: 2
I'm aware of that, but from my experience, the HD-DVD movies I rent from Netflix are usually scratched to hell. Half the time the discs play fine, the other half they stutter or lockup during playback. The Bluray movies I get from Netflix, except for one, have always been scratchless. Even though HD-DVD's data layer is further from the surface, that doesn't matter much when the laser is defracted away from the data because of a scratch. So in terms of picking a format for my personal collection, I prefer Bluray with its antiscratch coating, because it won't get scratched up from normal usage like my DVD collection did.


RE: Article from "Fudzilla"
By Locutus465 on 10/25/2007 9:55:37 AM , Rating: 2
I did the same on highdefdigest.com and actually found upcomming HD-DVD releases to be more compelling than what I was seeing for BD... To each their own I guess.


RE: Article from "Fudzilla"
By MrTeal on 10/24/2007 12:26:34 PM , Rating: 2
I think I'm more inclined to believe a wikipedia article with a random "john smith likes guys!!1! lolol" inserted is 100% factually correct than anything Fuad writes.


Proof Read?
By anonymo on 10/24/2007 9:30:18 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
between January 1 and September 30 Blu-Ray sold 2.6 million units versus a total sales of 1.4 million HD-DVD discs.


Are they comparing units to discs?

quote:
Through September, 3.01 million Blu-Ray discs have been sold and 1.97 million HD-DVDs have been sold, according to Home Media Research.


Ok hold on, didn't they just say the years sales were 2.6m for BR and 1.4m for HDDVD? So September outsold the entire year?

Well I'm confused.




RE: Proof Read?
By JasonMick (blog) on 10/24/2007 9:33:56 AM , Rating: 2
Sorry to confuse you.

units=discs (units is ambiguous, I appologize, but common sense should tell you that this does not refer to players).

quote:
between January 1 and September 30 Blu-Ray sold 2.6 million units versus a total sales of 1.4 million HD-DVD discs.


Should make sense now =D

Also,
quote:
Through September, 3.01 million Blu-Ray discs have been sold and 1.97 million HD-DVDs have been sold, according to Home Media Research.


This is total sales, including 2006.

Don't be confused. I'll try to put a change in the pipe to state these things explicitly.


RE: Proof Read?
By anonymo on 10/24/2007 10:21:07 AM , Rating: 2
Thanks for clarifying...and you're right I could assume what you meant but just in case there was a mix up I wanted to be sure (as I'm sure you wanted to be clear as well).

I'm also quite a stickler right after my first coffee...


RE: Proof Read?
By energy1man on 10/24/2007 11:59:00 AM , Rating: 2
So when all is said and done, there have been less HD/Blu-Ray discs sold, than the number of players sold. Sounds like neither format is really going anywhere fast, relatively speaking.


RE: Proof Read?
By therealnickdanger on 10/24/2007 9:38:00 AM , Rating: 2
That confused me as well, but I believe the second set of stats is life-to-date for each format. I'm sure Jason will clarify.


Uh oh
By DigitalFreak on 10/24/2007 9:24:59 AM , Rating: 2
Let the fanboy rants commence!




RE: Uh oh
By AnnihilatorX on 10/24/2007 9:50:34 AM , Rating: 2
I have not read a single fan boy flame on issue of High Definition war ever since it commerced.


RE: Uh oh
By mdogs444 on 10/24/2007 9:56:46 AM , Rating: 1
FYI - I think you meant to use the word "commenced" as opposed to "commerced".

Commerced means "to hold intercourse; to traffic", Commenced means "to begin; start"


RE: Uh oh
By TomZ on 10/24/2007 10:47:27 AM , Rating: 2
He he, he said "intercourse," he he.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beavis_and_Butt-head


RE: Uh oh
By Screwballl on 10/24/2007 12:19:20 PM , Rating: 1
That deserves a 5 vote just for the spontaneity


Need to list more developers
By MrPickins on 10/24/2007 9:51:33 AM , Rating: 3
Sony didn't solely develop Blu-ray, just as Toshiba wasn't the only company working on HD-DVD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_Associat...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD#History




RE: Need to list more developers
By TomZ on 10/24/2007 10:44:19 AM , Rating: 1
AFAIK, Sony did "develop" Blu-ray, i.e., they were responsible for the technical development. This is why they are paid royalties based on sales by other manufacturers. But it's correct to say that there are other companies involved in "promoting" Blu-ray.


RE: Need to list more developers
By Carl B on 10/24/2007 12:32:52 PM , Rating: 2
Sony didn't soley develop Blu-ray - it bares further repeating. Panasonic and Phillips were both involved in the creation of the physical structure as well.


RE: Need to list more developers
By TomZ on 10/24/2007 12:40:05 PM , Rating: 2
Thanks for correcting me on that. I couldn't find any clear statements about that when I did some google searches.


By daemoth on 10/24/2007 9:34:06 AM , Rating: 1
I support Blu-ray because my roommate got a free PS3 and do like the idea that it can store more. Therefore it might have a little more longevity. But at this point, I just want one of the formats to just DIE DIE DIE. That way I can figure out what format won't be a waste of time and money.

This is the kind of crap that causes people who want to pay for things to start downloading (and not the pay for kind like Unbox which is awesome but doesn't have high def stuff)!




By xxeonn on 10/24/2007 9:59:22 AM , Rating: 2
You can always get a player that supports both formats. You cant loose. :)


By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/24/2007 4:03:48 PM , Rating: 2
As an early adopter I have no fear that in 3 years I'm going to be stuck with useless disk's that can't be read by anyone. The hardware player technology to play BRD or HD DVD is so close its rediculous. Making dual format players should be childs play at best. Licensing costs will be the only killer here.


By NullSubroutine on 10/25/2007 12:04:39 AM , Rating: 2
You know, its not like your movies suddenly go bad if you buy hardware/videos of a losing format.

I purposely invested in the 360 HD-dvd because even if blueray wins, I still have had years of great experience with my HD-DVD collection on my 1080p tv. That experience does not faulter with time, at worst I have to buy a new player down the road that plays Blue-Ray. Which is not bad at all.

1, as an 'early' adopter I expect that I could choose the 'losing' side. And I would not be an early adopter if I did not have the financial means to do so.

2, early drives are usually more expensive and have less functionality and more bugs than later generations. whether blue ray or hd-dvd wins I still would probably buy a newer, better, cheaper player (and my old one still works great).


Think Buyer & not Formats.
By crystal clear on 10/24/2007 11:59:16 AM , Rating: 1
The ordinary buyer/consumer doesnt care about B.R or HD DVD,nor is he interested to know anything about it.

Then what does he want-

Quality of contents & at decent prices to obtain them.

The above 2 factors ultimately decide the success of a format.

The quality of contents & the quantity of contents(the number of titles released) is the deciding factor.

Buyers will not buy 2 types of players,rather they would look for a third type of player that plays it all.(B.R. & HDDVD)

The industry should take all the above factors into consideration.

Till such a player/drive comes into the market they will stick to the old formats-THEY ARE IN NO HURRY to become early ADOPTERS & pay a heavy price.

Dont expect them to take sides for any particular format-they (the buyer)value their money & time.

They want QUALITY CONTENTS at REASONABLE PRICES on ONE PLAYER/DRIVE.




RE: Think Buyer & not Formats.
By TomZ on 10/24/2007 12:11:23 PM , Rating: 2
I agree, and what I would add is that what people also would prefer is a single dominant format, so they don't have to pay for slightly more costly and complicated dual-format players. In other words, it benefits the consumer to have a single domainant format instead of having two competing formats.

The companies involved are clearly demonstrating utter disregard for their customers in promoting the current format war. And they will be the losers in the end, since it will delay the adoption of the next-gen format which only has a limited market window. This market window closes when broadband connection speeds increase enough to allow direct digital delivery of content on a wide-scale basis.


RE: Think Buyer & not Formats.
By crystal clear on 10/24/2007 1:02:52 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
This market window closes when broadband connection speeds increase enough to allow direct digital delivery of content on a wide-scale basis.


Yes you are right its coming to that very fast.

quote:
The companies involved are clearly demonstrating utter disregard for their customers in promoting the current format war.


Yes there is a price to pay for that disregard-people simply dont buy !

Consumers are slow adopters to new technology/products in general(computer related).

Content providers/producers should be reading your coment & learn from your wisdom..... so the title ...
"Think buyers & not Formats"


RE: Think Buyer & not Formats.
By crystal clear on 10/27/2007 9:34:37 AM , Rating: 2
Just a point to note-

Whats in the comment/s that deserves to be voted down-

Oh....yes again those stupid ignorant fools voting me down.

Anyway voting down,it doesnt serve any purpose or objective-Childish...


An interesting observation
By theflux on 10/24/2007 12:09:17 PM , Rating: 2
Asher hates global warming and loves HD DVD.
Mick loves global warming and hates HD DVD.

I wonder what the deal is there.




RE: An interesting observation
By TomZ on 10/24/2007 12:13:18 PM , Rating: 2
There's really only one possible conclusion: HD-DVD must be causing global warming. :o)


RE: An interesting observation
By Oregonian2 on 10/24/2007 1:36:53 PM , Rating: 2
Certainly is a lot of hot air put out discussing it and Blu-ray.

:-)


Still sad numbers
By mdogs444 on 10/24/2007 9:29:53 AM , Rating: 3
Regardless of who is "technically" winning or who is "legitimately" winning right now, there is no one that can deny the bottom line numbers are completely sad.

I also think those numbers are a bit skewed because of all the action we've seen in the recent months.

1. The intial PS3 launch brought BD into many peoples homes who would not have purchased a standalone player at all - HD or BD. Now they have new PS3 versions coming out that are cheaper (thank god), and are slowly increasing the sales numbers of those consoles.

2. Transformers sold 190,000 copies on HD. Common sense tells us that there were quite a few new standalone HD sales during that release, and could increase future HD release numbers.

3. It was only recently that the retailers started these "5 free disc" by mail offers to entice the sales of the PS3, BD players, and HD players. Many people took advantage of that, and may not have had time to effect the market for their future movie sales yet.

4. Price drops: It was only recently that we started seeing effective price drops. Most notably when you were able to get a standalone 1080i Toshiba HD dvd player + 5-8 free HD-DVD's for about $200-250.

I guess all I am saying is that the numbers out there on this research are what they are. Shows BD has more movie sales than HD, plain and simple. I think the next 9 months are going to change drastically, and exponentially, with the 4 items i stated above, as well as the christmas season coming up, and lets not forget - more price drops on players, with more new exclusive releases.




RE: Still sad numbers
By Guyver on 10/24/2007 2:56:14 PM , Rating: 2
You assume that gamers will keep buying the movies as the blockbuster games launch.

It's arguable that the momentum Blu-Ray has had is due in large part that the PS3s lack any great game.

Which has better bang for the buck / replay value? A blockbuster game you can play for weeks that costs $60 or a movie which lasts you 2 hours for $30?


Blue Ray
By blackseed on 10/24/2007 10:42:57 AM , Rating: 1
I live in Ottawa, Canada. I may be wrong but when I drop by Best Buy or Future Shop(Canadian electronic store) I see HD DVD players being sold out at times and Blue Ray players sitting there not being sold.

The choice preference might vary but from what I see from stores and report from media does not reflect reality I scratch my head.

I do not own HDDVD or BlueRay. I wanted to pick up HDDVD for two weeks but I could not find the inexpensive Toshiba players.

my 2 cp




RE: Blue Ray
By michal1980 on 10/24/2007 11:28:53 AM , Rating: 1
^ maybe best buy just doesnt stock hd-dvd at your store because its not selling?


RE: Blue Ray
By softwiz on 10/24/2007 1:44:50 PM , Rating: 2
Where I am, HD DVD disc and players (especially when there's a promotion) are in stock about as long as the Wii game console. Some come in, they go right out. Of course, this varies by location.


Thanks!!!
By Locutus465 on 10/24/2007 10:39:53 AM , Rating: 2
After participating so much in the Transformers disucussion it really made me think about what the current sales stats were... I was afraid we would have to wait till after christmas to find out... I'm going to be very curious about the immediatly post holiday and early '08 sales...




Blue Ray Profile 1.2
By wallijonn on 10/24/2007 12:20:26 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Adams Media Research is still predicting Blu-ray market victory for 2007, despite HD-DVD's upswing. They predict that consumers will spend $186 million on purchasing Blu-Ray format discs, but only $91 million on HD DVD format discs.


Let's see how it plays out a year from now, when all BR players have to be profile 1.2 (true Picture-In-Picture as opposed to having two movies exactly the same but the second having a P-I-P overlay.) What we may then see is that all the new movies which conform to the 1.2 spec may not play on 1.1 players, like all current Sony and PS3 players, thereby rendering them bricks. Then there may be an uproar.




if U.S. market weren't involved....
By Link on 10/24/2007 2:16:49 PM , Rating: 2
The U.S. represents the lagest consumer market, yet it is the slowest when it comes the adaptation of new technology. Leave out the U.S., then BR is already a winner.

By the way, Betamax wasn't total failure. Everything was better than VHS, except for the marketing.




PS3
By Shadowmaster625 on 10/25/2007 8:41:42 AM , Rating: 2
Considering the PS3, the sales gap should be around 5:1, not 2:1

2:1 can be erased really quick when cheap HD-DVD players start flooding in.




By BSMonitor on 10/25/2007 12:43:28 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
This announcement, which indicates an almost 2 to 1 ratio of Blu-ray sales to HD DVD, was a bit of a killjoy for the HD DVD camp who were thrilled by the record setting success of Transformers on HD DVD, chronicled here at DailyTech.


Yes, terrible. So how many HD-DVD's has Transformers sold in 9 days? 500,000?

Guess its not 2-1 anymore.

What a worthless spin job this article is.




Hold outs
By Screwballl on 10/24/07, Rating: -1
RE: Hold outs
By JasonMick (blog) on 10/24/2007 9:26:55 AM , Rating: 2
There's still a market for VHS tapes???

Last I checked only big retailers like FYE have any. And you can't rent them at most Blockbusters (not the ones in my area). And you're lucky to get a duel mode player these days, as these seem to becoming scarcer and scarcer. Of course, EBay is the VHS'ers friend still, but VHS, sad to say is going the way of dinosaur.

Fair point on DVDs though.


RE: Hold outs
By Spivonious on 10/24/2007 9:47:56 AM , Rating: 3
dual not duel, unless the player has a pining for pistols. :)

And my local Blockbusters still have tons of VHS, just only on the older movies that might not have a DVD replacement. From working there a few years back, I know that many of the over 60 population does not own a DVD player and are quite upset at the lack of VHS availability.


RE: Hold outs
By omnicronx on 10/24/2007 10:09:46 AM , Rating: 2
Times change, a few years back my grandma didnt have a dvd player. She felt like she was missing out so she went and got one. Amazing she mastered the player, but can barely figure out how to work the microwave ;).


RE: Hold outs
By mdogs444 on 10/24/2007 10:16:04 AM , Rating: 2
Tell her if its any consolation, I am a 28 yr old IT professional and dont know how to use my microwave either...outside of pressing "Cook #2" for a 2:00 minute pizza.

haha


RE: Hold outs
By Locutus465 on 10/24/2007 10:32:12 AM , Rating: 2
28 yr old computer programmer here...

I hate it when they screw with you by making it look like you just tap in the time on the number pad, but the second you push a button you get some bizzar cooking sequence...


RE: Hold outs
By mdogs444 on 10/24/2007 10:33:54 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah, and whats all this "cook at 50%" stuff?

Ordering a pizza is so much easier. :-)


RE: Hold outs
By murphyslabrat on 10/24/2007 10:44:46 AM , Rating: 2
Heck, I primarily use the stove-top or oven. Though, I feel like I am somehow akin to the old folks (like my dad, at 54) who whine about how computers are so complex, and stick with what they know.

I'm 19 and in my first year of an E-Business Associates degree.


RE: Hold outs
By Chaser on 10/24/2007 11:26:53 AM , Rating: 2
Don't forget the popcorn button :)


RE: Hold outs
By jak3676 on 10/24/2007 9:57:01 AM , Rating: 2
According to the same report, VHS still outsold either HD or BR discs for the first half of 2007. Collectivly BR + HD have finally outpaced VHS for the first time.


RE: Hold outs
By Screwballl on 10/24/2007 12:13:36 PM , Rating: 2
I can go to any local video rental place including Blockbuster or local business that sells movies and they have plenty of VHS movies for rent and sale. Even the larger local retailers still have a small selection of VHS movies (Best Buy, Circuit City, Target, WalMart).

Now I am curious as to why I was voted down as I was stating facts, not opinions... guess the techies don't like to hear that in the real world, 98% of the people still use VHS or DVDs.

I myself will stick with the DVD until this format war settles down ina year or two (or dual format players become cheaper).


RE: Hold outs
By maverick85wd on 10/24/2007 7:20:59 PM , Rating: 2
first of all, if I was going to own a completely obsolete media player to play old movies not available on newer formats, it would most definitely be a LASER-DISC player... everyone seems to forget that you can get them and the movies for them at garage sales and on ebay. Everyone seems to forget about LD because VHS ended up, rather unfortunately, taking over but it's not a bad standard *considering it's age*.

As for the whole not releasing titles in one format I think it's rather unfortunate... some people just want to watch a movie in the best quality possible and the studios/format innovators are making it hard for the consumer. I am a BD fan myself and feel they will eventually come out on top, but until then why not release everything in both formats so people that have invested in one player or the other can watch what they want??


RE: Hold outs
By Locutus465 on 10/24/2007 8:34:55 PM , Rating: 2
Because exclusives are what help win the battle for formats... I was tempted to pick up a laser disc player a while ago at a pawn shop, but they wanted $80 for it... A bit much for something obsolete...


RE: Hold outs
By mdogs444 on 10/24/2007 9:31:27 AM , Rating: 4
What is VHS? Is that a sexually transmitted disease?


RE: Hold outs
By FITCamaro on 10/24/2007 10:59:40 AM , Rating: 2
Vehicular Homicide Syndrome. Symptoms include a strong desire to run over the elderly on sidewalks and delusions that your Toyota Prius can take out a semi.


RE: Hold outs
By mdogs444 on 10/24/2007 11:01:49 AM , Rating: 2
LOL a Prius....man I got nothing on that.


RE: Hold outs
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/24/2007 3:51:44 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe if you somehow set the battery inside the Prius to detonate on impact......


RE: Hold outs
By Scrogneugneu on 10/24/2007 10:57:28 PM , Rating: 2
Sony makes the batteries of the Prius?


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