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There is more back and forth, as many groups are critical at Greenpeace's iPhone analysis.

Last week it was covered by DailyTech that Greenpeace had taken a swing at Apple, citing them for what they felt was a number of environmental violations in the iPhone's design.

The report and Greenpeace's vocal support of it is drawing criticism from some, though Apple is strangely silent on the issue, simply saying that it is working to reduce the use of certain chemicals and is constantly trying to stay environment friendly.

It appears the key gripe back and forth between Greenpeace and its detractors seems not to be the body of the report, but a specific point in it.

The argument centers on the use of brominated flame retardants (BFRs) in the phone.  BFRs are thought to be capable of reacting, either under highly acidic conditions such as the human stomach via ingestion or under high heat if scorched (such as in an iFire).  Also, exposing them to water is suspected of leading to possible water supply contamination.

Unfortunately, BFRs provide the best fire-retardant protection currently available.  As many of the plastics in consumer electronics are flammable, this produces a tricky situation.  Replacing these plastics can be economically costly.

The bromine chemical industry released a new report blasting Greenpeace's claims about BFRs.  The report adopts a "you can't prove we did it and so what if we did" stance in both trying to attack Greenpeace's findings and attack their statements about BFRs, even if their findings were accurate.

The report criticizes Greenpeace's use of XRF (X-Ray Fluorescence spectrometry) which can detect elements on the surface, but cannot detect molecules or specific concentrations of elements, which could yield empirical molecular composition.  Basically, the report is trying to say that Greenpeace could not tell the difference between a BFR and another brominated compound with its lab equipment (note that even if this is true, most halogen compounds used in industry are mildly carcinogenic at least, although, as previously mentioned you might have to do something like swallow them to absorb them into your body).

The industry report also points out the economic problems which it feels mandates the use of BFRs and points out that European Union regulations still allow BFRs.

Greenpeace has issued a response on tech blog Gizmodo, in which it counters these arguments.

It points out that the report is coming from an industry analyst who stands to lose if BFRs are eliminated.

Greenpeace points out that it used gas chromatography/mass spectrometry on the compounds as well, to try to better zero in on the chemical form of the bromine containing compounds.  It points out that the polymeric form of BFRs makes it difficult, and perhaps impossible to precisely determine the compound's identity, using current testing methods.

Interestingly, Greenpeace acknowledges to some extent the economic dilemma involved with eliminating the BFRs.

The really interesting bit, though, comes not in Greenpeace's official rebuttal, but in a letter typed by one of their spokespeople who sent it out.

The letter links to a web blog with Greenpeace's response.

More interestingly, is Greenpeace's acknowledgement that iPhone campaign is making headlines, though it states that it is not concerned with that.  "While it might not make as many headlines as the iPhone it doesn't mean that we are not focusing on all manufacturers," said Greenpeace in a statement.

Whether Greenpeace is unfairly targeting the iPhone is unclear, but it is clear that it has an understanding that its attacks will generate publicity. 

Whether its intentions are altruistic or malicious is open for debate.  The tricky part about this issue is that you are dealing with two biased parties--industry analysts and environmental activists Greenpeace.  Equally tricky is the issue of the chemicals themselves.  Many substances used in modern materials are toxic to some extent, but often they are economically viable and have unique beneficial characteristics. 

While some would have you believe the picture is black or white, it is largely gray, and society must examine each instance individual and try to make an objective decision, weighing the benefits and risks.  That's what would be logical at least.


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In short
By FITCamaro on 10/23/2007 9:16:11 AM , Rating: 5
Don't eat your iPhone. Or set it on fire.

Of course if you do the former, I think you've got larger issues.




RE: In short
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/23/2007 10:19:43 AM , Rating: 6
We can't expect users to use common sense, that would eliminate the need for all sorts of legislation, committee's, oversight, and lawyers.
/sarcasm


RE: In short
By Hellburn on 10/23/2007 10:43:19 AM , Rating: 3
I vote that comment for the classic quotes at the bottom! :)

It's so sad that it is so true.


RE: In short
By ksherman on 10/23/2007 12:16:18 PM , Rating: 3
Seconded!


RE: In short
By KristopherKubicki (blog) on 10/23/2007 12:45:00 PM , Rating: 2
Approved :)


RE: In short
By The0ne on 10/24/2007 4:31:15 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly. As I've said in the original post, consumer and users will do things to your product that no one in your company could have ever come up with. And there's only so much warning via everything you can think of to address and still not cover everything. It's a no win scenario for the company. You can't anticipate what they'll do so you do the best you can. That's all you can really do.

Just recently, we had a internal company discussion to determine what we need to do to make our terminal safer. This was because one Merchant slamming the lid down on the printer. I mean literally slamming the lid! This destroys the motor gears and thus damaged the whole printer assembly. Well, we thought about putting warning labels on the unit and in the manual, making a how to use and updating the maintenance manual, etc. But really it all comes down to that fact that you're not suppose to slammed a lid down on anything. It's just common sense. It's almost like "don't eat fire". Sigh.

This however is questionable to me as many other products are more dangerous and are selling.


RE: In short
By The0ne on 10/25/2007 1:17:24 PM , Rating: 2
Too add to the stupidity of some users we also recently had users of our POS (point of sale) terminal laying their hands on top of the unit, which houses the receipt printer. It would be obvious for many of use why the printer wouldn't print of course but how do you go about dealing with something like this. The company had wanted to spend money to prevent this but I didn't approve due to the fact that it's a "user" error and that we can't eliminate this and others user errors completely.


RE: In short
By Trisagion on 10/23/2007 10:21:31 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Don't eat your iPhone


Don't worry. If that was popular, Apple would already have exclusive contracts with hospitals to remove them. Of course, if you violate that, you'll just have to wait until it turns to an iS*it.


RE: In short
By Oregonian2 on 10/23/2007 1:42:45 PM , Rating: 2
I'm sure Greenpiece (tm) will insist that iPhones are being promoted for eating seeing as how the company who makes it is named Apple (also insert link to biblical eden story here).


RE: In short
By Misty Dingos on 10/23/2007 10:25:30 AM , Rating: 4
I will have mine with some fava beans and a nice chianti please.


RE: In short
By omnicronx on 10/23/2007 10:44:50 AM , Rating: 4
So this only includes phones right? I can still safely eat my Mac laptop and desktop?


RE: In short
By Martimus on 10/23/2007 2:12:36 PM , Rating: 2
My daughter has a habit of chewing on things. She could take an ear-bud and chew on it while I am not looking. Maybe I will consider getting an iPod after she gets a little older.


RE: In short
By mezman on 10/23/2007 2:45:50 PM , Rating: 2
Or you could completely wrap your kid in bubble wrap. And sand all the sharp corners off your furniture.


RE: In short
By TomZ on 10/23/2007 2:51:08 PM , Rating: 2
If you think today's parents are being too paranoid, you might find the following article interesting:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/10/22/body.bu...


RE: In short
By Alexstarfire on 10/23/2007 4:30:06 PM , Rating: 2
Man, I'm 20 and chew on a lot of stuff regularly. It's not like a bite pieces off, but things like paper clips, the end of pens/pencils, usually find there way to my mouth. I'm sure pen/pencils don't have those kind of chemicals in it since many people chew on them. I wonder if I'm at risk. Well, since I've been chewing on stuff for years and haven't had any problems, cept a kidney stone which was caused by something else, I think I can at least say that it's not as bad as they make it out to be, on what products are actually bad, or that ingesting these chemicals isn't as bad as they say it is.

Animals are great to show what MAY cause problems with humans, but since they aren't a human it's possible that it affects them but not us. It could also affect them in different ways too.


RE: In short
By Zoomer on 10/24/2007 9:45:31 AM , Rating: 2
Well, that's really more of a personl problem. Where has personal responsibility gone?

If I drink weed killer, I don't expect to sue the manufacturer if I throw up. Or die. Same for drinking 160 proof liquors; I won't expect to live if I chug a whole bottle down.


RE: In short
By TomZ on 10/23/2007 2:50:02 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
My daughter has a habit of chewing on things. She could take an ear-bud and chew on it while I am not looking. Maybe I will consider getting an iPod after she gets a little older.

The choking hazard is probably 1000X more serious than the chemical hazard, so it would be wise to keep it out of reach in any case.


RE: In short
By Martimus on 10/24/2007 3:45:26 PM , Rating: 2
She isn't one to swallow tihngs, just chew on them. I don't worry too much about choking on such a small part. It isn't big enough to cause much constrition in the throat.


RE: In short
By tmouse on 10/26/2007 10:29:06 AM , Rating: 2
The chemicals cannot be absorbed by chewing. The acidic enviorment of the stomach MAY leech SOME of the halides out but this is also just speculation. So don't worry about the chemicals the choking hazard is somthing else.


I actually agree with greenpeace....
By Moishe on 10/23/2007 10:00:54 AM , Rating: 2
In the sense that we want to eliminate all harmful stuff from all products. Saving our planet is a noble goal that all humans can really get behind.

BUT

My problem with Greenpeace is the same problem I have with a lot of activists.
1.) They don't live the life that they preach. Noble causes are frequently undermined by the very people who are pushing those causes.

2.) They have no room for reasonable progress. With Greenpeace it's usually all or nothing and if you're not all the way in radical, then they will bash you, even if you're better th