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DRAM makers in Tawain are on the verge of collapse without governmental aid

The focus of many Americans during the harsh economic times is aimed at failing businesses here in America. We know that the economy is doing poorly in other parts of the world as well, especially in countries where high technology industries are prolific.

One of the problem areas for Taiwan in the current economy is its widespread chip making industry. The DRAM industry in Taiwan is in a very similar situation to what the banking and automotive markets found themselves in here in America.

The Taiwanese government is looking at offering loans and other fixes to its ailing DRAM market to keep companies from going under and leaving thousands of employees without a job. CNET News Reports that on Thursday Taiwan's economic affairs ministry approved a rescue package for ailing DRAM makers.

Avi Cohen from Avian Securities says, "Something (the government) will have to do if they want to keep all those people employed (is offer assistance)." The reason many of Taiwan's DRAM makers are in such dire straits is that the Taiwanese DRAM industry is falling behind in terms of cost and production volumes.

The DRAM market is already flooded with products leading many makers to cut production and close facilities. Add that to the fact that some of the firms in Taiwan are operating on older technology assembly lines that aren’t as efficient in production volumes compared to firms operating on newer equipment and the DRAM industry for some companies is a money-losing proposition.

According to CNET News two of the Taiwanese DRAM firms in jeopardy are Powerchip Semiconductors and ProMOS. These firms are using older manufacturing technology where as Micron and Samsung have moved to newer generation technology leading to small profits, but profits nonetheless.

While terms of the bailout from the Taiwanese government are unknown, loans are the main source of help according to reports.



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Hopefully..
By Gorfy on 12/12/2008 11:05:12 AM , Rating: 3
Hopefully when the execs fly into the capitol, they won't each be on their own private jet... >_<




RE: Hopefully..
By nosfe on 12/12/2008 12:00:18 PM , Rating: 5
yep, they'll come in their prototype DRAM transportation device


RE: Hopefully..
By Nakecat on 12/12/2008 3:38:58 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Hopefully when the execs fly into the capitol, they won't each be on their own private jet... >_<


Have you ever been there? Taiwan is so small you don't even need a jet. without traffic, you can drive from north to south and back to north in 15 hours.

By the way, it's very bad when you compare that with US automaker. DRAM is so cheap the more you sell, the more money you lose. Unlike auto here, i don't see that car is getting cheaper each year.


RE: Hopefully..
By Samus on 12/12/2008 6:55:31 PM , Rating: 1
well somebody's a sourpuss :P


RE: Hopefully..
By foolsgambit11 on 12/12/2008 7:36:01 PM , Rating: 2
I think the equivalent would be them giving a presentation to the government on a flash drive.


RE: Hopefully..
By the goat on 12/15/2008 9:14:53 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
I think the equivalent would be them giving a presentation to the government on a flash drive.

DRAM != Flash Memory.


RE: Hopefully..
By the goat on 12/15/2008 2:37:44 PM , Rating: 2
I am flabbergasted. Average Dailytech reader intelligence has reached a new low. I was voted down because I pointed out that DRAM and flash memory are not the same thing.

They are very different technologies and are used for totally different applications. There is no way an educated person should get the two confused.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_random_access...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory

I guess it is just another example of the Eternal September.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September


RE: Hopefully..
By wordsworm on 12/13/08, Rating: 0
RE: Hopefully..
By foolsgambit11 on 12/13/2008 7:23:01 PM , Rating: 4
I've always understood it to be that a capitol is the building (or group of buildings), and a capital is the city. And Miriam-Webster agrees with me. Who agrees with you?


RE: Hopefully..
By wordsworm on 12/14/2008 3:23:46 AM , Rating: 2
The US does use it in this way. No other country does. If you can find one, that might be more useful. Since we're talking about the Republic of China, which is not a US state, one should not refer to their capital city or their buildings as the capitol. However, it seems quite standard in the US to refer to US state capitals using that word.


RE: Hopefully..
By foolsgambit11 on 12/14/2008 5:57:23 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
it seems quite standard in the US to refer to US state capitals using that word.
Yeah, used like, 'Hey, I'm going to Sacramento, capital of California. When I get there, I'll go to the capitol building.' It's confusing, and we really should just go with one spelling.

quote:
Since we're talking about the Republic of China, which is not a US state, one should not refer to their capital city or their buildings as the capitol.
So, I looked 'capitol' up in the Oxford English dictionary. They agree it's an American English usage. That doesn't mean it can't be used for other countries' capitol complexes (complices?). It just means an American English speaker will refer to a legislative building as a capitol. Therefore, I submit to you that, when using American English, you can refer to the capitol of any country with an 'o', unless that capitol is expressly spelled with an 'a'. This could only happen when the country in question has English as an official language. There can be an exception when, in a special circumstance, common usage is the alternate word.

And, of course, this whole conversation is really moot, unless there's a runway at the Chinese capitol, and not just in the capital.


RE: Hopefully..
By wordsworm on 12/16/2008 7:48:39 AM , Rating: 2
Even American writers don't use the word 'capitol' to refer to other nations' parliament buildings. Try some searches for countries with the word capitol. For instance, both "China's capitol" and "France's capitol" returned the "Did you mean 'France's capital?'" You can repeat the experiment with as many countries as you wish, save the US, and you'll get the same result. Usage for the word capitol are restricted to the USA's capital, and the capitals of the individual states.


Profits...
By Micronite on 12/12/2008 12:03:36 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
Micron and Samsung have moved to newer generation technology leading to small profits, but profits nonetheless.

I'm not sure what profits you are talking about here. Samsung doesn't release their DRAM numbers separate from the rest of their markets and Micron hasn't turned a profit in about 2 years.

Since I work for Micron, I wish they'd just let these little guys die. DRAM is horribly underpriced. Take advantage while you can.




RE: Profits...
By stevty2889 on 12/12/2008 5:36:28 PM , Rating: 2
While the company as a whole hasn't been turning a profit, at least one of the 300mm sites has been profitable, though it isn't likely to stay profitable if prices continue to drop.


RE: Profits...
By jconan on 12/12/2008 7:07:31 PM , Rating: 2
Could it be that RAMBUS is blackmailing the ram industry to their demise?If that was true then DDR3 prices wouldn't be so expensive. The only thing that isn't as expensive is DDR2. Maybe they should shift their processes to DDR3 since i7 is runs on DDR3.


RE: Profits...
By monitorjbl on 12/13/2008 5:28:36 PM , Rating: 2
I think you're confusing the actual chipmakers with the companies that use DRAM to implement memory technologies. RAMBUS, to my knowledge, uses the same DRAM as DDR, it's just put together differently.


RE: Profits...
By the goat on 12/15/2008 9:26:10 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
RAMBUS, to my knowledge, uses the same DRAM as DDR, it's just put together differently.

Sorry Rambus designs (RDRAM & XDR) do now use "normal" DRAM chips (SDRAM, DDR, DDR2, DDR3). Rambus basically designs the interface specifications. Other companies lease the specification and manufacture a chip that complies. You can not put DDR chips together so that they operate as XDR. Or anything like that.


RE: Profits...
By pugster on 12/14/2008 4:41:55 PM , Rating: 2
I agree. The price of Dram won't go up unless production decreases. Unfortunately it is survival of the fittest. Who knows, maybe the bailout for those companies is a sign that they should go into some other kind of business instead of producing dram.


SOCIALISTS!
By Smilin on 12/12/2008 2:02:26 PM , Rating: 1
S O C I A L I S T S !! !!

..thats all, carry on with rational discussion. I figured some right wing nut job had to shout it eventually. :)




RE: SOCIALISTS!
By Headfoot on 12/12/2008 3:17:25 PM , Rating: 2
So only right-wing nuts can call it what it is? Last I checked a horse is a horse of course no matter who names it as such.


RE: SOCIALISTS!
By wordsworm on 12/13/2008 10:05:50 AM , Rating: 2
Go to India and look at all the starving people on the streets, including children, diseased and handicapped, then tell me how much you hate socialism. That's one of the good things about Canada: it has deep socialist roots. Most anti-socialists don't understand what kind of country results from the absence of socialism. Schools and police are just a few of them.

The genius behind effective socialism is that it raises the potential value of those who would otherwise never have an opportunity to live up to their value. That's just one of the many positive facets behind it.


RE: SOCIALISTS!
By cmdrdredd on 12/13/2008 11:10:21 PM , Rating: 3
Absense of socialism. As far as I know the US is not a socialist society. Healthcare is private run still, most industry is privately owned still and yet people want to come here and NOT to Canada. Why is that? It's because here if you are willing to put in the work, you can see results. Socialism prevents you from working hard for personal gain.


RE: SOCIALISTS!
By wordsworm on 12/14/2008 3:05:48 AM , Rating: 3
I don't know of a world power that doesn't have socialist values - it's just a matter of which values are created/protected by the government, and which aren't. Some have more than others.

As to why people want to go to the states more than Canada, well there are a few reasons: 1) It's cold up there for 6 months out of the year. 2) We don't have Hollywood glamorizing it.

That said, there are billionaires and millionaires in Canada. The average family income is fairly high. There are many people who apply to Canada to immigrate. I couldn't tell you how many of those first applied to the US.

One of the benefits of redistributing wealth is that it may inadvertently increase the overall wealth of the country as a result. If everyone has efficient health care (which neither the US nor Canada have), then those people are able to contribute income to the state. It also prevents children from missing out on health care, which also gives them the potential to save their monetary value from being diminished.

Social programs such as welfare, when sufficient, helps reduce crime driven by desperation. If you don't have to steal to eat and pay rent, then you're less likely to. Clearly crime is not the epidemic issue in Canada like what the US has. Consequently, at least in part, the US puts more of its citizens in prison than any other nation, and is in the top five for executions.

Public schools, legal aid, government funded transportation, are just some of the socialist systems that are set up in the US. Hopefully, with any luck, your next president will help set up a better health care system that reaches everyone.


RE: SOCIALISTS!
By Spectator on 12/14/2008 9:49:10 AM , Rating: 2
Im not overly convinced with india logic. It has a few simple flaws.

How many of western countries ppl have 8+ children with no job and no income. Even though here in the UK. I would not even consider having more children than i could support.

So It could be Argued that, they brought it on themselves. just like the credit happy ppl's in the rest of the world atm.

Devils Advocate : Why should i give money to some man to support his 8+ children. When I dont even get laid enough to have 8+ children. fookem they have all the simple pleasures in life :P


It will be more than UAW workers suffering
By Beenthere on 12/12/2008 1:30:11 PM , Rating: 3
If any of the Detroit auto makers go under, you, me and every other tax payer will be suffering by paying more and more taxes, up until we lose our jobs. Americans are their own worst enemy when they fail to educate themselves. When you're standing in a bread line because you have no job and no money, thank a southern Senator. They'll be sitting in their ivory towers, living the good life - on your tax dollar. Ignorance and apathy are suicide.

I propose that all members of Congress and the President work for $1 per year until the $11 Trillion national debt is reduced to zero - without raising taxes.




RE: It will be more than UAW workers suffering
By CommodoreVic20 on 12/12/2008 1:45:22 PM , Rating: 1
All of those salaries combined would be less than a drop in the bucket. Why should a congressman or president not be entitled to compensation for doing their elected job? Because some may have some wealth of their own?

Same goes for CEOs taking a $1 salary, most execs make the bulk of their income on company options, bonuses, mergers, sellouts etc... the salaries usually pale in comparison. But they will gladly take a $1 salary if it will silence an ignorant mob.


By PrinceGaz on 12/12/2008 8:27:26 PM , Rating: 2
I don't know why that post was down-rated as what he said was fundamentally correct.

Most CEOs could have a $1 basic salary without it having much affect on their real overall income from the company because stock-options and bonuses are where they really accumulate their wealth. Not that they'll be making much from stock-options at the moment, though :p


By foolsgambit11 on 12/12/2008 7:40:16 PM , Rating: 2
All that would do is make cases like the Blagojevich scandal. If you can't make a decent wage, more people will use their power to get the compensation they 'deserve'. Not everyone, mind you, but more.


Now hiring:
By austinag on 12/12/2008 11:04:42 AM , Rating: 2
Maybe the soon to be unemployed UAW members can move to Tiawan. I hear it lovely this time of year.




RE: Now hiring:
By Moishe on 12/12/2008 1:49:58 PM , Rating: 2
What do unemployed UAW workers need to move for? They tend to get paid for doing almost nothing anyways.

Plus Bush looks like he wants to bail out the UAW anyways... Greedy union bastards need to make a LOT more cuts.


Cartels
By Slaimus on 12/12/2008 12:05:24 PM , Rating: 2
A big reason memory was highly profitable when PCs were being mass produced is because the memory makers formed cartels to keep prices high. I hope that is not the only way to keep them afloat.




RE: Cartels
By owyheewine on 12/13/2008 11:06:27 AM , Rating: 2
It's amazing how limited some people's knowledge is. DRAM is the epitome of Moore's law. Prices used to be high because costs were high. Memory was 64K and less. Read a little history before you make such foolish remarks.


"If you look at the last five years, if you look at what major innovations have occurred in computing technology, every single one of them came from AMD. Not a single innovation came from Intel." -- AMD CEO Hector Ruiz in 2007

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