Sources: U.S. District Court for D.C. via Wired, Wired
quote: You will never see some lunatic go to a shooting range and try and gun people down... there is a very good reason for that.
quote: Dude- lunatics will gun people down and then SHOOT THEMSELVES. Other people carrying guns will not stop them.
quote: Others with guns trying to hit him while the smoke was around would probably hit innocent people before they got the shooter. Remember the shooter didn't have to aim just randomly shoot,...
quote: ...the others with guns trying to stop him would have to have good aim or they would hit random innocent people.
quote: It is a fire extinguisher. Just before he gets in sword range, you can spray the contents of the fire extinguisher into his face and get away or throw it at him.
quote: The issue is not whether if gun carrying patrons would have lessen the damage in these rare cases but what happens the rest of the time that these gun carrying citizens are going about their regular lives. Say they are carrying when they are drunk and get pissed off by someone and decide to use the gun; I think this will occur much more often than the occasional crazy that decide to do something like this.
quote: All I'm saying is passing here-say/opinion/word-of-mouth off as fact is utterly useless. You tend to do this quite often.
quote: That's completely inaccurate. You should feel ashamed of what you have just said.
quote: What delusional world do you live in?
quote: 5 or 6 people in that theatre in colorado with handguns could have completely changed the outcome of that shooting... perhaps 5 or 10 less people would have lost their lives.
quote: Dude- just because you can get a license and go to a firing range doesn't mean you have perfect situational awareness, judgement and aim.
quote: The hull of the plane will also likely get shot multiple times from multiple directions as well from those thinking "I got this."
quote: One point is valid: a handful of bullet holes isn't going to cause a crash, unless the pilots are incompetent or the airframe hadn't been properly maintained. If aircraft were delicate little butterflies there'd be a lot more aviation disasters.
quote: So? Aircraft are designed to handle things like the exterior doors coming off or punctures to the fuselage. The pilot will have to drop to 10,000 feet (so the people don't pass out) and fly to the nearest airport. You've watched snakes on a plane a few too many times if you think a couple pistol rounds is going to tear a giant hole in the side of the plane and cause massive structural failues leading to the plane falling out of the sky.
quote: Who knows, in that situation, someone might take the opportunity to shoot a flight attendant because of a missed connection earlier in their travel.
quote: Then there are pilots and stewardesses with armed guns that any well trained militant could potentially disarm? Even without that, if not screening someone will get weapons on the damn planes and turn it into a giant 600mph cruise missile ala 9/11.
quote: If the terrorists know the flight crew has weapons, then they will hatch a plot to disarm them.
quote: You also have to randomly inspect old ladies and babies to make sure the nutjubs arent using old ladies and babies to smuggle in weapons.
quote: Even if the guy had a gun, you can only shoot so many people before you're overwhelmed.
quote: They only need too shoot down one person, and all the rest will stay quiet.
quote: Take for instance bank robberies: how many have you heard of that the average person in line fought back, disarmed the criminals and took care of the situation?
quote: "1. Start profiling, it's politically incorrect but it will target the people that are more likely to cause incidents or acts of terrorism." That doesnt work. The minute they are aware we arent looking at everyone for everything , then a John Walker type that isnt the stereotype will be the one called on to do the deed.
quote: Then the FBI, CIA or NSA will have to deal with the same sisues as the TSA faces. You cant find every nutcase via links to terrorists, gangs, or histories of violence. There are new young people joining the nutbags every day.
quote: "It is mindboggling for us Israelis to look at what happens in North America, because we went through this 50 years ago," said Rafi Sela, the president of AR Challenges, a global transportation security consultancy. He's worked with the RCMP, the U.S. Navy Seals and airports around the world. "Israelis, unlike Canadians and Americans, don't take s--- from anybody. When the security agency in Israel (the ISA) started to tighten security and we had to wait in line for — not for hours — but 30 or 40 minutes, all hell broke loose here. We said, 'We're not going to do this. You're going to find a way that will take care of security without touching the efficiency of the airport." That, in a nutshell is "Israelification" - a system that protects life and limb without annoying you to death.
quote: 1. Start profiling, it's politically incorrect but it will target the people that are more likely to cause incidents or acts of terrorism.
quote: Eliminate the TSA and have the FBI, CIA, and NSA screen passengers; use facial and voice recognition systems to find people with links to terrorists, gangs, or histories of violence. If any of those 3 organizations are looking for you I don't want to be on a plane with you.
quote: Arm the flight crew and allow citizens with concealed carry permits that are valid in both the departure and destination states to carry firearms on planes. Law abiding citizens are not the issue and if faced with a hijacking situation then they should have the option of taking matters into thier own hands.
quote: I do not think allowing passengers to carry loaded guns on flights is smart because the average person is an idiot. Knowing you have a gun means you are going to alter your behavior based on your willingness to use said gun. A "law abiding" citizen who has never dealt with a high stress situation would likely cause more harm than good if allowed to carry a weapon on a confined area like a plane...also, people snap and they may just decided to do that on a plane.
quote: And let me clue you in on something, on 911 there was a plane full of these "stupid idiot law abiding citizens", and when they heard what was happening, rose up and stopped the terrorists from flying that plane into the White House, our nations capital. With very little time to act and NO training, they prevented a further catastrophe that day.
quote: If you weren't being such a condescending cynical asshole, you would be surprised how well ordinary people can respond to extraordinary situations when given a chance. We're not all a bunch of hapless idiots waiting for someone to act for us.
quote: but yeah, most people are hapless idiots who would rather wait for someone else to intervene rather than saving themselves...and arming these idiots isn't going to improve the situation.
quote: Obviously on an airplane flight, aka avoidance, is not an option so you really only have one choice of action - fight.
quote: So what’s problem? The TSA never complied with the court order.
quote: The direction we're going is clear, history's verdict on how this turns out is clear, but no one cares except Ron Paul and a few tea party type.