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The T-Mobile G2
Unfortunately this Scorpion doesn't pack much sting

If you're determined to get an Android slider on T-Mobile, then perhaps the upcoming T-Mobile G2 is the phone for you.  However, its specs may change your mind.

The company's insider newsletter 
T-Mobile Scoop reveals that the HTC Vision, aka the T-Mobile G2, will be using an 800 MHz MSM7x30 chip.  That chip uses the Qualcomm's Scorpion ARM CPU, also found in the 1 GHz Snapdragon.  

The lower clock speed seems like a bit of a blow.  But when you factor in that the 1 GHz Snapdragon crunched approximately 2.5 times less frames than the Samsung 1 GHz Hummingbird (a Cortex A8) in the GLSBenchmark, it appears even worse, given that the CPU core appears to have certain design shortcomings in the first place.

The good news is that the slower CPU will at least be somewhat offset by the operating system; the G2 will run Android 2.2 "Froyo" (which notably comes packing Flash 10.1).  As we previously discussed, Froyo brings a Just-in-Time Java compiler to the table, which allows Android applications to run up to five times faster.  Thus even this slow CPU may be capable of some decent performance.

Reportedly HTC isn't going to lay the Sense UI on top of this particular Froyo build.  That should offer better performance, and either improved or deteriorated usability, depending on your perspective on HTC Sense.  T-Mobile does brag that the phone will include "one-touch quick keys" to quickly access key functions.

The G2 has a couple of key advantages -- namely, that it has a physical keyboard, it's T-Mobile's first HSPA+ phone, and that it's on one of the most appealing networks in terms of contractual obligations and price.  However, in the face of phones like the Epic 4G and HTC EVO 4G -- also on a well-priced network -- the G2 faces some stiff competition.



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RAM
By cigar3tte on 9/2/2010 2:04:15 PM , Rating: 4
I'm more interested in the RAM and ROM capacity than the CPU frequency. 200MHz, most of us won't be able to tell the difference on that.

Also, I'm very anxious to find out how fast and consistent the HSPA+ will be.




RE: RAM
By Motoman on 9/2/2010 4:22:59 PM , Rating: 2
Looking at current PC CPUs, I'd agree...200Mhz wouldn't be noticeable.

On a 1Ghz processor though...that's 20%. One fifth. That probably would be noticeable.

But, as noted in another post above, it's not clear that this is an apples-and-apples comparison as the article suggests...


RE: RAM
By adrift02 on 9/2/2010 4:58:59 PM , Rating: 2
Well, you have to take into account how much power Froyo requires and whether what's already there does the job.

My rooted mytouch3g can't run Froyo well due to memory limitations more than anything. And, even with cupcake on it an OC from 525mhz to 615mhz makes a difference. This phone isn't quite to the "adequate" threshold for android.

My friends Droid however only seems "slightly" snappier after root and OC up to 800mhz (I think some versions come stock at 800). Another bump up to 1000mhz didn't seem noticeable, even the jump to 800mhz was hard to tell. Why? Because with adequate memory and speeds that are already capable for 2.2 it runs fine regardless.

Not saying faster processors won't speed things up in the future, but these increments aren't a huge deal. I'm sure architecture makes more of a difference.


RE: RAM
By deputc26 on 9/2/2010 6:19:03 PM , Rating: 4
Jason is mixed up again. He is quoting CPU numbers in reference to an openGL benchmark. Hey Jason! That is a GPU benchmark! G-P-U stop using it to rank C-P-Us.

Yes CPU performance can effect graphics performance but usually not in dedicated GPU benchmarks.

Seriously, this guy is making dailytech/anandtech look bad.


RE: RAM
By omnicronx on 9/3/2010 11:47:23 AM , Rating: 2
Hes off, but not that far off. Snapdragon based CPU's are paired with adreno gpus (qualcomm in house bought from ATI) and Cortex/Omap cpus have generally been paired with PowerVR GPUS, they are both basically integrated solutions.

As such they are somewhat related, and cpu design surely does have an impact on gpu performance. (having basically no cache for example, *points at snapdragon*)

That being said, he should have been quoting what gpu said cpu was paired with, as it certainly does matter ;)


RE: RAM
By deputc26 on 9/3/2010 5:18:08 PM , Rating: 2
Yes PowerVR is > Adreno
No Cortex A8 is not > Scorpion (and this is what he's saying).
Scorpion is based on A8 and supposedly has higher ipc, they're about the same in ARM CPU benches.

Once again. CPU performance should have only negligible impact on GPU performance *in a GPU benchmark* ...Jason is way off, cortex A8 at 1ghz is no where near 2.5x as fast as a scorpion core at 800mhz.


RE: RAM
By theapparition on 9/5/2010 5:12:48 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, cracks me up.

In another article, post how the CPU performance was 2X that of the DroidX, despite them both having the same processor.

My pentium 3 1Ghz is faster than your pentium 3 1GHz. See, a graphics benchmark told me so.


RE: RAM
By omnicronx on 9/3/2010 11:34:57 AM , Rating: 2
You can't just look at clockspeed alone. Right now any snapdragon based CPU has an advantage in froyo basically thanks to Google and the N1. If you actually go look at the benchmarks in Froyo for Hummingbird/Omap 1GHZ processors vs the N1, the N1 is still the better performer (by a large margin) when it takes advantage of JIT. Thats because Google specifically coded the compiler to take advantage of the snapdragon CPU found in the N1.

On the GPU end, people will surely notice, but an 800mhz snapdragon could easily perform on par with other 1ghz offerings in many non gpu intensive situations. It really all depends on how lazy the manufacturer is. (*points at samsung*)

Also as the OP mentioned, there are countless other things behind the scene such as RAM clock, pipe width, cpu cache etc..


DT - You got it mostly wrong!
By labbbby on 9/2/2010 1:39:33 PM , Rating: 5
As Paulywogstew pointed, this is not an A8 design. It's a custom Qualcomm design.

Also this SOC packs an Adreno 205 and not and Adreno 200.
It apparently adds the following features and has roughly four times the GPU power of the Adreno 200.
- Hardware-accelerated SVG and Adobe Flash®
- Significant improvements in shader performance over Adreno 200 GPU
- Streaming textures that can combine video, camera, SVG and other image surfaces with 3D graphics

Adreno 205 should be competitive with the HummingBird GPU (but the SGX540 should still be faster)

Finally why everyone is getting caught up in the GHZ race again is beyond me. Clocking my CPU anywhere between 900-1100mhz doesn't change much in user experience or battery life for that matter.

All of this combined and it should translate in similar or even better performance in everyday use and better battery life.




RE: DT - You got it mostly wrong!
By labbbby on 9/2/2010 1:47:56 PM , Rating: 2
Benchmarks Please!
By Denigrate on 9/2/2010 1:10:56 PM , Rating: 2
So you say the Humingbird smokes the Snapdragon, but how does the Scorpion come out? Clock speed does not equal performance as we all know.




RE: Benchmarks Please!
By Scabies on 9/2/2010 1:19:03 PM , Rating: 2
besides, with a no-bloat build of 2.2, the extra "speed" might not be missed anyways.
also, + battery life


RE: Benchmarks Please!
By Goty on 9/2/2010 2:05:14 PM , Rating: 2
Well, both CPUs share a common architecture, so clockspeed is a pretty good indication of performance (at least between this CPU and Snapdragon).


The new wave of PC "spec envy"...
By Ytsejamer1 on 9/2/2010 1:58:10 PM , Rating: 3
I find it interesting that with all the new Android smartphones coming out...we're all getting lathered up about the impressive specs that they're now coming with. It brings me back to 1997 when we were all drooling over which 3dfx voodoo card you had...Monster or Canopus? Intel PIII/P4 or AMD K7? "OH...i just HAVE to own that!!!"

I'm guilty...I've switched phones three times in the past year...wait four times. Some due to issues, some due to requested upgrades. I just need a phone to get email and of course make calls...but darn it all, I really would love to have that 1ghz snapdragon CPU, or 512mb of memory, or whatever else on my phone! :)




By Denigrate on 9/2/2010 4:41:42 PM , Rating: 2
Man I loved my Vodoo 3500 TV card.


Wrong on the Cortex A8
By Paulywogstew on 9/2/2010 1:15:06 PM , Rating: 2
Let me give you a little lesson today Qualcomm designs there own cores. They don't use Cortex A8 designs they just license the Architecture.




I want one
By Ammohunt on 9/2/2010 1:45:37 PM , Rating: 2
I want one anyway don't need the fastest CPU not like i am going to be running LightWave 3D on it; features features features!




By sapiens74 on 9/3/2010 12:25:35 AM , Rating: 2
That's when we will finally switch to Droid. Something to do with Exchange Server 2010 needing 2.3 to provide the security we require.

In the mean time, we use a HodgePodge of Verizon phones Windows Mobile , RIM, and iPhone ATT for our Sales force (since we have apps for the iOS platform)




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