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Symantec tell Microsoft to level the playing field with Vista security

Symantec is still crying foul over Microsoft’s decision to lock anti-virus vendors out of the Windows Vista kernel. Last week, DailyTech reported that McAfee has gone so far as to take out a place a full-page ad in the Financial Times berating Microsoft for its Kernel PatchGuard protection scheme in Windows Vista. Just a few weeks prior to that pot shot at Microsoft, Symantec had expressed similar displeasure in the security feature.

Now, Symantec is going even further by saying that Microsoft needs to provide a "level playing field" for security vendors and give them equal access to the Vista kernel. "We want the same access to the operating system as their engineers and developers. Let us integrate; we can do a better job of integrating security than Microsoft can," said Jeremy Button of Symantec's security and data management group.

Microsoft has decided to take a new approach to security with its Windows Vista operating and it felt that denying access to the kernel was one of the best things it could do to ensure security. Information Week reports:

Microsoft has built anti-virus and anti-spyware software into Vista, and the company has taken away access to the Windows kernel, which controls the operating system's most basic functions. Security vendors use that access to detect and block certain malware, including worms. Microsoft says that benefit isn't worth the downside, which is that malware writers exploit the same kernel access.

While McAfee and Symantec aren't too happy about the current state of affairs with Windows Vista, Russian-based Kaspersky Labs has rushed to Microsoft's defense. "It would not make any sense for them (Microsoft) to stop working with other computer security companies because it would make their system more vulnerable to attacks," said Kaspersky Lab Chief Executive and co-founder Natalya Kaspersky.

For those that want to take a deeper look at Kernel PatchGuard, you can take a look at this MSDN blog post.



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do I need anti-virus and firewall on vista?
By GNStudios on 10/12/2006 12:23:05 PM , Rating: 1
Do I need a third-party anti-virus/spyware and firewall in Windows Vista or is it secure thanks to the Microsofts own stuff?

Replies are appriciated!




RE: do I need anti-virus and firewall on vista?
By blwest on 10/12/2006 12:34:20 PM , Rating: 2
You'll still need AV software either from 3rd party or Microsoft's own AV through their security center (paid). I forget what it's called. Windows Defender maybe?


RE: do I need anti-virus and firewall on vista?
By GNStudios on 10/12/06, Rating: -1
RE: do I need anti-virus and firewall on vista?
By TomZ on 10/12/2006 2:03:36 PM , Rating: 5
Sorry, but that's really dumb. You are paying Microsoft (or Symantec) to protect you from viruses, not from Microsoft's software. If someone breaks down your front door and steals stuff out of your house, do you blame the thief for that, or the manufacturer of your door?


RE: do I need anti-virus and firewall on vista?
By mindless1 on 10/12/2006 2:14:46 PM , Rating: 2
If it's incredibly easy and there are several different ways to compromise the door even by kiddies, you blame the door manufacturer because they didn't make a reasonable effort to make it secure instead of trying to promote features people don't necessarily want in a (door).


By TomZ on 10/12/2006 4:29:43 PM , Rating: 2
If you assume the door is of reasonable design and free from manufacturing defects, then most of the blame would go to the theives, right?

I would argue that Windows, in the present form of WinXP (and probably eariler releases also), is already at this level. It takes a lot of work right now to find an exploit in the OS that would allow you to develop a virus. It's not a trivial thing to do because the possible exploits are so numerous due to shoddy coding.

So, IMO, we cannot blame Microsoft for all the world's problems.


By Christopher1 on 10/12/2006 4:29:52 PM , Rating: 2
Hey, Microsoft is doing their best this time to secure the OS. But the facts are that in ANY OS there are going to be methods to attack it and compromise it.

With all the people who are going to be looking to cash in on Vista spyware, it will be cracked, but Microsoft is at least TRYING to fix any blatent holes and putting in so many layers of security that it will be hard as heck to compromise the system unless you are VERY skilled or sneaky.


RE: do I need anti-virus and firewall on vista?
By GNStudios on 10/12/06, Rating: 0
By TomZ on 10/12/2006 4:11:57 PM , Rating: 3
You blame both based on my analogy, but in your original post, you only blamed Microsoft. That is why I criticized your post. Sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like a personal attack - I should have been more diplomatic.


By wrack on 10/12/2006 7:32:11 PM , Rating: 2
Norton is the biggest bunch of poo poo software maker since Norton Internet Security 2004 and above.

I still have a little faith in Norton Internet Security 2003 but I use BitDefender nowadays which is way better.


By bisoy on 10/12/2006 10:35:56 PM , Rating: 2
I had Norton before and it suck bigtime. I bought TrendMicro last week, and my mail server is now virtually spam free.


RE: do I need anti-virus and firewall on vista?
By imaheadcase on 10/12/06, Rating: 0
RE: do I need anti-virus and firewall on vista?
By Korvon on 10/12/2006 1:18:00 PM , Rating: 3
It all depends on how you use your computer. Some people can go months and not have a problem, then I have seen others completely screw their computers in less than 24 hours.

On windows Vista it still says you need a 3rd party AV, however the only one that currently works is Microtrend. I have been running Vista (RC1) with Microtrend for a month now and havent had an issue. Defender kind of pisses me off though, blocks daemon tools on every boot. :P


RE: do I need anti-virus and firewall on vista?
By tuteja1986 on 10/12/2006 2:02:08 PM , Rating: 2
"We want the same access to the operating system as their engineers and developers. Let us integrate; we can do a better job of integrating security than Microsoft can,"

This dude has lost the plot.


By TomZ on 10/12/2006 2:05:43 PM , Rating: 2
...and when has Microsoft ever publically exposed internal software information to this level of detail? Previous generations of AV software were constructed based on reverse engineering. Does it even occur to them that if Microsoft provides certain information to Symantec, then they would have to provide it also to many others, which would surely fall into the hands of the virus writers?


RE: do I need anti-virus and firewall on vista?
By hondaman on 10/12/2006 2:27:32 PM , Rating: 2
Not running any antivirus is suicidal, or masochistic, depending on who you are. There is free, top of the line AV software one can use, so there isnt a reason in the world for anyone NOT to use it.

In regards to computers and viruses, there are three kinds of people:

1: Those who will be infected.
2: Those who have been infected.
3: Those who use AV and still get infected.

Not using AV increases your chances of getting infected by an unimaginable degree. Its simply foolish, irresponsible computer use.


By DokGonzo on 10/12/2006 3:34:51 PM , Rating: 2
No, running a computer without a firewall is suicidal. Running a computer without AV software is a matter of personal preference because you really don't need it as long as you know why and how infections happen in the first place. I haven't had a virus infection in over 4 years and all I ever used was a properly configured firewall, Mailwasher for pre-checking my e-mails, and a certain degree of common sense. And my computer runs like a dream, it's snappy and isn't being dragged down by bloated AV software...


RE: do I need anti-virus and firewall on vista?
By TomZ on 10/12/2006 4:19:23 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Not using AV increases your chances of getting infected by an unimaginable degree. Its simply foolish, irresponsible computer use.

I couldn't disagree more. A sophisticated user doesn't need AV tools. I am proof of this, as are several of the folks I work with. Self-protection from viruses is really as simple as:

1. Keeping all your SW - esp. the OS - always patched to the latest level
2. Don't activate executable or other e-mail attachments that can carry active content
3. Don't visit questionable web sites (you know which ones I'm talking about)
4. Don't download and install questionable software off web sites
5. Access the Internet from behind a hardware firewall

That's it - it's pretty simple if you ask me. Like I said in another post, I've done this for at least 10 years on Windows and never had a virus problem.

On the other hand, if you are in a situation with less-than-sophisticated users, have users that don't care if their computers get viruses (e.g., work), or have public PCs (e.g., library), then AV protection is absolutely necessary, and as you say, it would be irresponsible to not use it.


RE: do I need anti-virus and firewall on vista?
By Christopher1 on 10/12/06, Rating: 0