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They also don't want to pay much more than a dollar for a public quick charge

A new survey shows that many consumers are not willing to pay over $25,000 for an electric vehicle (EV) or plug-in hybrid.
 
Colorado-based consulting firm Navigant Research recently released the results of its Electric Vehicle Consumer Survey, which showed 71 percent of consumers surveyed wouldn’t buy EVs priced over $25,000. It also showed that 43 percent wouldn't spend over $20,000 for a new EV or plug-in hybrid. 
 
The survey holds results from 1,084 participants total. 
 
Those in the 43 percent not willing to spend over $20,000 will likely have a more difficult time in the EV market, but some vehicles -- like the all-electric Nissan Leaf -- fall into the sub-$25,000 category that would appeal to most consumers. 
 
The 2013 Nissan Leaf saw a $6,400 U.S. price cut earlier this year to $29,650. After the $7,500 federal tax credit is applied, it falls at $22,150. 


This price drop helped the Leaf quite a bit this year when it comes to sales. Through October, U.S. sales of the Leaf are more than two-and-a-half times higher than the year-ago period with 18,078 units sold. 

The survey also noted that 67 percent of participants have a positive opinion on hybrids in general while 61 percent have favorable views on EVs.

As far as specific models, the Chevrolet Volt had the highest familiarity with 44 percent of respondents saying that they're "somewhat familiar" with it while only 6 percent said they're "extremely familiar." The Leaf, on the other hand, had 31 percent who were "somewhat familiar" while less than 5 percent were "extremely familiar."

The survey also said that about 40 percent showed interest in public charging stations, but over half said they would use a quick charge unit only if it was free or less than $1, while just 16 percent would be willing to spend more than $2 for a 15-minute charge.

Navigant Research predicts that 30,195 EVs and 59,106 plug-in hybrids will ship this year. By the end of the decade, it expects shipments of 130,641 EVs and 210,772 plug-in hybrids.

Source: Automotive News



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Yea
By Dr of crap on 12/2/2013 1:06:45 PM , Rating: 2
And everyone told the truth about the survey.

Won't pay $2 to charge up - really? Do these people know the cost to FILL up??




RE: Yea
By otherwise on 12/2/2013 1:13:46 PM , Rating: 2
This is what happens when the huge majority of your marketing is focused on making a value proposition.


RE: Yea
By MightyAA on 12/2/2013 5:21:18 PM , Rating: 2
lol. true. The other funny to me is those that bother to do a survey or even pick up the phone for a survey aren't exactly representing the norm (who avoid surveys and poll calls like the plague).


RE: Yea
By kattanna on 12/2/2013 1:41:53 PM , Rating: 2
well.. it does qualify it as a 15 minute charge..

and just how much of a charge are they going to get in 15 minutes? not a whole lot im betting


RE: Yea
By fic2 on 12/2/2013 2:04:56 PM , Rating: 2
That is what I was wondering. If they put it into miles instead of minutes they might get a better response.
i.e. would you be willing to pay $1 for 100 mile charge?


RE: Yea
By Griffinhart on 12/3/2013 10:25:21 AM , Rating: 2
The 2013 Chevy Volt got a 38 mile range on battery only mode. If you didn't run the heater or AC. And the cost to charge it's 16KWH battery will cost about $2.60 a charge. About the same cost as a car that gets 40MPG.


RE: Yea
By foxalopex on 12/3/2013 12:32:19 PM , Rating: 2
The volt doesn't use its entire 16 kwh battery, it always reserves some from the top and bottom which greatly reduces the wear and tear on a Lithium battery. An actual full charge is about ~10 KwH, 12 if you count losses. In my area power is 6 cents a KwH so conservatively, I'm paying the equivalent of $1 for 40 miles. Gas is nowhere near $1 a gallon.


RE: Yea
By Dr of crap on 12/3/2013 12:35:22 PM , Rating: 2
Just had to put a Volt reference in this, didn't you!


RE: Yea
By DT_Reader on 12/2/2013 3:15:50 PM , Rating: 4
I think part of the problem is what I call the Internet Affect: when something is given away free it soon has no value. The first charging stations are free, so that sets the public's expected price point. After years of free news at other sites, why should I subscribe to your news site? After years of free charging all over the city, why should I pay for your charging station? The fact that the free charging stations were from a time when you could count the number of electric cars on one hand, and now Nissan alone is selling thousands of them, doesn't matter. Plus, when you charge at home you know it's costing you something, but you don't see it as a separate line item on your bill so subconsciously it's "free". It's a perception problem.


RE: Yea
By vol7ron on 12/3/2013 9:24:47 AM , Rating: 2
But then you have a body, like the government, that may step in and put a spin on it to break that perception. "We'll let you vote on it; we can keep prices as they are, or increase them by half a cent so that we can put in a new lane on the highway, or a bridge, or to cover EV inspections to make them safer." That half-cent, nominal figure, was all that was needed to change people's view on the matter and over time it grows and becomes $0.05 and more as new reasons present themselves.

...and that's the story of today's gas tax


RE: Yea
By Keeir on 12/2/13, Rating: 0
RE: Yea
By Reclaimer77 on 12/2/13, Rating: 0
RE: Yea
By Spuke on 12/2/2013 3:48:18 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Ah the "everyone else is stupid" defense. How totally not elitist and apologist...
This is pretty much how I'm reading these responses. I'll add that the responses here implying this are irrelevant mainly because if the "stupid people" don't buy EV's, they don't go anywhere. So guess what? Those charging stations MUST be $1 or less, EV's MUST be $25k or less to get the buying public in them PERIOD. No amount of huffing and puffing and name calling will get this done. One of the things I LOVE about the general public is they don't care what elitist, extremist wackos think of them!!


RE: Yea
By Dr of crap on 12/3/2013 12:39:30 PM , Rating: 2
LMFOA - Classic, can I use that line!!!


RE: Yea
By Mint on 12/2/2013 4:09:03 PM , Rating: 2
That's why the EV industry needs to adopt the smartphone sales model. How far would S4 sales tank if consumers had to pay $600+ up front?

Bill people $3 per 50 miles, i.e. cheaper than a Prius' gas bill, and you have a moneymaker for life. You can easily knock off $5k from the MSRP and make twice that over the life of the car.


RE: Yea
By Solandri on 12/3/2013 3:19:43 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Bill people $3 per 50 miles, i.e. cheaper than a Prius' gas bill,

Depreciation is higher than that. If a $25,000 car is worth $5,000 after you've put 100,000 miles on it, then it depreciates at $0.20 per mile, or $10 for 50 miles. (It's actually a bit more complicated since the depreciation isn't linear, but you get the point.) Then you have to factor in maintenance and insurance.

I agree with what you're saying, but I think if done properly it would just confuse people more. They're going to end up comparing the energy+depreciation cost per mile for EVs, vs just the energy cost per mile for gasoline. Because somehow the cost of using a car is "free" if you own it. That's actually the exact comparison which makes the limited range and long recharge times of EVs a non-factor. All you do is buy an EV for your daily driving, and the few times you need to make a long trip you rent a gasoline car. But people always leave out the depreciation cost of using their personal vehicle on a long trip when comparing to the cost of renting, making renting look more expensive when it's frequently cheaper.

So you're right, but the way most people think about cost for depreciating assets is so screwed up it's not going to work. You're not gonna get a fair comparison out of it any way you cut it.


RE: Yea
By JediJeb on 12/4/2013 10:59:34 AM , Rating: 2
I guess that works out for the bulk of auto buyers on the depreciation. In my case I paid $18,000 for my truck in 1996 and now it is worth $2000 with 245,000 miles on it.

Depreciation per mile driven works out to $0.065/mile which is far less than $0.20/mile. It also come down to less than $1000 per year depreciation because I have had it so long, and if I keep it to 20 years like I plan then it will be even better since the assessed value has actually started to go up instead of down due to inflation.

Energy cost per mile would be very complicated to work out since when I bought the truck gas was selling for less than $1/gallon.

Repair cost has been a grand total of about $2000 for 245,000 miles or $0.008/mile. I wonder how the repair cost will average out for current EVs once battery replacements get factored in?


RE: Yea
By foxalopex on 12/4/2013 3:36:42 PM , Rating: 2
I think most folks misunderstand how Lithium batteries work. The reason why most consumer lithium batteries fail is that they are overheated, completely discharged or charged all the time. Most of the better EV's like the Volt use a liquid cooling / heating system to prevent the battery from going to extremes and they also don't use the entire battery. The Volt's pack is 16 kwh but you're only allowed to use 10.5 kwh of it.

I have a Sony Z series laptop that has the ability to stop charging the lithium battery at 50% and I leave it plugged in all the time. After 3 years, my battery wear is at 1%. In comparison my older Asus laptop which didn't have this feature had about 10% battery wear after 3 years.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Volt's battery pack will last it at least 20 years, and even then it can be recycled and used in other applications. A Volt battery pack can technically power an entire house.


RE: Yea
By Mint on 12/7/2013 2:27:25 AM , Rating: 1
Depreciation is there for all cars, so I don't see what point you're trying to prove. In the long term, EVs should depreciate slower, because used car buyers will also see the value in not needing gas, having low maintenance costs, and being more reliable, so they'll pay more.

The point of my suggestion is to create an equivalency that a consumer can easily relate to. A Prius needs ~1 gallon ($3.50-4.00 today, probably more tomorrow) per 50 miles. Most economy cars need 1.5 gal.

That costs a lot more than $3.


RE: Yea
By MightyAA on 12/2/2013 5:41:26 PM , Rating: 2
You forgot a biggy. For most of us, the shelf life of a electronic gismo is about 1.5 years. Most of us have dealt with electronic gismo tech support... can’t wait for Chevy to tell me “have you turned it all the way off and checked to see if you plugged it in? Maybe if you disable the radio, gps & bluetooth, the battery will hold a charge all day long.” This has been the consumer experience......


RE: Yea
By kattanna on 12/3/2013 12:54:57 PM , Rating: 3
I actually saw something like that the other day. A bus I take for commuting is electric, and they had to .. in effect.. power cycle the whole bus to get the ticketing system back online so people could pay to get on board.

I chuckled


LOL
By DukeN on 12/2/2013 2:07:03 PM , Rating: 2
Was this poll done as part of Leno's "Jay-Walking" segment?




RE: LOL
By Reclaimer77 on 12/2/2013 3:09:13 PM , Rating: 3
Interesting that polls showing the supposed popularity of EV's are never questioned.

This poll just backs what reasonable people already knew: EV's are considered inferior by the average consumer, thus they don't feel there should be a premium on the price.


RE: LOL
By SeeManRun on 12/2/2013 4:04:06 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
This poll just backs what reasonable people already knew: EV's are considered inferior by the average consumer, thus they don't feel there should be a premium on the price.


The average consumer is of average means and of average intelligence. They might not have the money or the understanding capable to really calculate cost vs benefit of an EV. They also might not be able to afford a second car that is not range limited like an EV.


RE: LOL
By Spuke on 12/2/2013 10:38:14 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The average consumer is of average means and of average intelligence.
They're smart enough to know what does and doesn't work for them which, quite frankly, is all that matters. And since they're the VAST majority here, appeasing them is of the utmost importance if EV's are to get past being a niche product.


RE: LOL
By DukeN on 12/3/2013 10:02:10 AM , Rating: 2
If the poll was re-worded in terms of TCO I suspect the outcome might have been drastically different.


RE: LOL
By Dr of crap on 12/3/2013 12:42:41 PM , Rating: 2
AND the average vehicle buyer is going for the Ford F150 pickup, number one seller.


Stop spreading misinformation!
By maevinj on 12/2/2013 2:13:14 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The 2013 Nissan Leaf saw a $6,400 U.S. price cut earlier this year to $29,650. After the $7,500 federal tax credit is applied, it falls at $22,150


The real truth about your tax credit. It doesn't make your vehicle sticker price cheaper
quote:
"Up to" is the critical modifier. The federal incentive is usually referred to as a flat $7,500 credit, but it's only worth $7,500 to someone whose tax bill at the end of the year is $7,500 or more. If the buyer of a Volt, a Nissan Leaf or other eligible vehicle owes, for example, only $5,000 in income tax for a particular year, that's all the tax credit will be. Uncle Sam's not writing a refund check for the other $2,500. And an unused portion of the credit can't be applied against the following year's taxes.
http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/the-ins-and-ou...




RE: Stop spreading misinformation!
By Mint on 12/2/2013 4:16:04 PM , Rating: 2
That's not misinformation. Almost 70% of new car buyers earn $50k+. It's likely that most new car buyers can use the full credit.

On top of that, if you lease, the capitalized cost is MSRP minus tax credit (and down payment, of course) no matter how much you earn.


RE: Stop spreading misinformation!
By maevinj on 12/2/2013 4:44:54 PM , Rating: 2
How can the dealer include a tax credit? A tax credit shows up when you file taxes. It is not some instant rebate from the government you get when you purchase one of these vehicles.


RE: Stop spreading misinformation!
By JediJeb on 12/4/2013 11:03:46 AM , Rating: 2
If you lease the tax credit goes to the dealer.

Fact is, if the dealer takes legal ownership of the vehicle and registers it in their name then sells it to you, you can't get the tax credit since the government wrote it in that only the original owner receives the credit and that would be the dealer in this case.


RE: Stop spreading misinformation!
By JediJeb on 12/4/2013 11:12:09 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
That's not misinformation. Almost 70% of new car buyers earn $50k+. It's likely that most new car buyers can use the full credit.


I make right at $50k and I usually have about a $5300 tax liability at the end of the year so considering I would normally receive about $600 of that back it would make what I would actually receive back from the government for the purchase of an EV $4700 which would make a Leaf cost me somewhere around $24,800. It is very misleading information to just subtract the $7500 from the list price and promote that as the actual cost of the vehicle.

Also the article is about what it will take to get EVs into the hands of the average person, not just average new car buyers and the average person makes less than $50k per year so unless those prices fall EVs will never become high in ownership numbers across the board, they will remain in the hands of the upper middle class at best. For the dream of saving the world through less energy usage to come true these will need to be in the hands of the masses, and unless EV become a good value as used vehicles with 50k+ miles on them or around the $20k starting price without tax breaks that will not happen.


Not really surprising
By foxalopex on 12/4/2013 11:20:08 AM , Rating: 2
I actually own a Volt and for myself it's turned out to be a near perfect car. The 40 mile range of the battery is perfect for the small city I live in (about 10 miles across). There's also a lot of misconceptions as well. The Volt will stay entirely on battery unless it's too cold or it runs out of battery so I've been able to log over 4,500 miles (6 months) on a single tank of gas. The Volt feels fast even thou it's only slightly faster than a prius in 0-60 races due to the fact that its power to weight ratio is higher than even a Telsa S. In a drag race between the two, the Volt will for a second leap off the line faster but lose because it doesn't have the power to keep up. Power is cheap in my area at 7 cents / kwh and nearly all hydroelectric. The fact that it has a gas engine is a huge benefit because I live in a snow belt. The gas engine is great at generating heat in the wintertime. Probably the only major change is that I actually drive more than I did in the past because friends like asking me for rides because it costs me next to nothing to give them one.

If you can afford it, and you're okay with a 4 seater, it's a great very modern car. The low center of gravity and planetary gear drive gives the car a very solid smooth feeling ride.

But in reality, most folks ARE broke. With the recession and the young graduates I see from university without jobs it's really hard for them to afford anything worth more than about $20,000. I even worked in call centers and was jobless for several years so I can see how that can be a problem.

New technology is always expensive, so it's not surprising that only a small group of folks are buying EVs but they're needed. It isn't much different from hybrids which originally were only bought by a small group of folks but it seems are now just starting to end up in a lot of new cars. After seeing how well the Volt's worked for me, I would say that the technology is finally mature. It just needs to get cheaper for the masses to adopt.




RE: Not really surprising
By jawshoeaw on 12/4/2013 1:09:13 PM , Rating: 2
The reason the Volt is described a joke is that the economics never pencil out. It's a fun car to drive but so is a comparably priced BMW. It's a bit of a gas hog on the freeway for it's class. And it's a Chevy - a deal killer for the brand-aware.

If the Volt sold for $20,000, which it should have been from the beginning, it would have transformed US transportation.


RE: Not really surprising
By foxalopex on 12/4/2013 2:58:41 PM , Rating: 2
The Volt does around 40 mpg when running on gas in real-life. Admittedly compared to a Prius (which is slower) it's a little worse, but compared to the average car it's a LOT better. My 05 Corolla didn't get this kind of fuel mileage. One oddity I should note is that when the Volt is out of battery it's essentially a hybrid, so unlike most cars, it's mpg doesn't get worse if you say get stuck in traffic or are driving through hills.

A regular BMW doesn't drive like an EV. An EV is silent and the acceleration is completely linear. There's no jumping of gears, hesitation or anything. EV's are absolutely great cars for urban stop and go driving. Like remote starting your car in the cold winter mornings? Volt starts electric off house power and you're not stuck with a garage or car full of gas fumes or if the wind is blowing the wrong way. It also changes how you drive. My brother owns an actual BMW and he doesn't like to drive it because it just burns through so much gas. In comparison since electricity is so cheap ($1 roughly for 40 miles), I probably end up putting more miles on my Volt.

BMW also has the i3 which costs more than the Volt and ontop of that it can't really be used cross-country. Recent tests revealed that the gas engine is so underpowered it can't make it up hills and with that small of a gas tank you'd be filling up every hour at least.

I could care less about brand, in following the owners forums it seems very reliable. With the occasional factory defects which affects all cars, it's on par with most other brands.

I agree that if the Volt could be sold for $20,000 it'd probably sell faster than GM's ability to produce it. The problem is you can't make an EV with an effective gas engine for $20,000 in a complete package that works as well as the Volt in all the varying climates and conditions from Alaska to Mexico. (This is important because some EV's such as the Nissan Leaf suffer from premature battery failure in hot weather.) When GM first released the Volt, they were willing to take a slight loss on each vehicle to test the technology. I would say that's been a success. Hopefully with time, the technology will come down in price.


RE: Not really surprising
By Mint on 12/7/2013 11:18:17 AM , Rating: 1
That's with the old pricing. At $27.5k after tax credit, the economics of a Volt are pretty good compared to a $22k Cruze Eco auto which isn't as nice a ride or as well equipped.

It absolutely will cost less over its lifetime than the Cruz, and after 150k miles its engine will generally have less than 50k on it.


Hybrids tainted the pool
By venym76 on 12/2/2013 5:20:53 PM , Rating: 1
There is a pretty good reason why people aren't willing to shell out more than 25K on an EV, and they have started to see this with hybrids, the resale/trade in value is crap. People who bought hybrids have gone to trade in or sell their used hybrid they spent $30-40k for and are only offered $5k for their not very old vehicle. The problem comes in that the class in this case dictates the trade in/resale value. Most hybrids are in the $15k class, so when you drop $40k on one you've just thrown a lot of money away which you will not recoup from saving on gas. So saying people are stupid for not wanting an EV is they've seen people duped with hybrids and know there are a lot of unexpected costs that are associated with them.




RE: Hybrids tainted the pool
By jawshoeaw on 12/4/2013 12:59:43 PM , Rating: 2
Don't know where you're getting your numbers but my wife bought a Prius for $23000 three years ago and the dealer (the dealer!!) offered her $18000 for it. I don't know of a $40,000 hybrid - is that a Lexus? - but the vast majority of hybrids sell for around $25000-$30000 and anything above $25K is just bells and whistles - i.e. you could have bought the same car for $23K with the basics.

I agree that a hybrid may fall into a lower "class" than it's sticker price may indicate, but barely. A $25,000 Prius is now estimated to be only about $2500 more than it's comparably equipped non-hybrid competitor. Similar math applies to diesels. Since most people can grasp that $2500 is easily paid back in fuel savings, it's acceptable.

Electric vehicles are a whole other story - I drive one but I'm not yet convinced that they make economic sense for most drivers. If/when gasoline goes above $4 a gallon and if you drive more than 15k miles a year, the economics are there.


RE: Hybrids tainted the pool
By grant3 on 12/6/2013 12:55:42 PM , Rating: 2
sell their used hybrid they spent $30-40k for and are only offered $5k for their not very old vehicle.

Let's presume that "not very old vehicle" is 4 or less years old, i.e., 2010+ model.

If these magical 2010 hybrids that were originally purchased for $40,000 and now are being sold for $5,000 actually exist... then find me one and I will fly out and immediately buy it for $10,000. That means you will double your money in a day.

Deal?


Still not viable
By Nutzo on 12/2/2013 2:24:08 PM , Rating: 2
In other words, most people won't buy an electric car unless it's sold below cost, and they also get a huge rebate from the taxpayer....

Not a good way to run a company for a country, unless your plan is to go broke.




RE: Still not viable
By 1prophet on 12/3/2013 8:29:10 PM , Rating: 2
As opposed to the trillions we have spent in the middle east to secure our need for oil at a stable price.


EV
By flyingpants1 on 12/2/2013 3:12:20 PM , Rating: 2
Because most EVs go under 80 miles. Big surprise.

There should be a 40kWh EV for $40k, right between the 60kWh Tesla and the 20kWh LEAF.




RE: EV
By Scrith on 12/2/2013 3:39:47 PM , Rating: 2
There are rumors at various electric car forums that Nissan will soon (2014 model?) allow Leaf buyers to pay more for a larger battery (like Tesla), although the details on pricing and optional battery sizes haven't been announced yet.


$11K
By ssobol on 12/2/2013 4:48:12 PM , Rating: 2
The most I have ever paid for a vehicle is $11K. Buying a brand new car is just not worth it to me so I get 'em used. Paying $20-25K for an electric (or any other type of) car is not something I will ever seriously consider.




RE: $11K
By jawshoeaw on 12/4/2013 12:41:01 PM , Rating: 2
Over the next 5 years I will put 100,000 miles on my electric car, a Nissan Leaf. It cost me $25,000. I wanted a new car for a change - new job and all that - so I was looking at a low end BMW, a Subaru Outback, Prius, nothing more than about $35000. I didn't care that much about the brand but I wanted something "techie", LED headlights, newer navigation. The Leaf fit the bill. Here's something to consider: I was looking at about $3000 a year in gas costs for most of the other vehicles I considered. Over 5 years that's $15000. So your $11k car would cost the same as my new electric car. Now the formula would be very different if you don't drive much, or drive a hybrid.

When I consider that the car will never much of the usual maintenance of a new car, never mind a used car, it makes even more sense. When I consider that it is more fun to drive than any car I have ever driven, it's a slam dunk. My mom complains that my car is quieter than her Lexus - that's just icing


So there are two conclusions:
By djc208 on 12/2/2013 1:13:42 PM , Rating: 2
1. EV buyers are primarily looking at them as a second car, which means a lower price tag to compare with the smaller size and capabilities of the vehicle.

2. Many of the hybrid/ev buyers they surveyed are cheap bastards and are more interested in the money saved on gas then any other benefit behind the vehicle.




Cost
By btc909 on 12/2/2013 1:56:19 PM , Rating: 2
Cost is an issue but so is range. I can get to wherever I need to go on a Leaf for example but I won't make it back all of the way to a charger. Many of my destinations won't have charging available or me being at a location long enough to warrant charging. For me 150 miles of range with the AC on 100% of the time is ideal for me. 5 months out of the year I wouldn't run the AC at all but the remainder of the year I would need to. The Volt is a joke to me based on the platform that was chosen.




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