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New evidence in anti-Microsoft suit strengthens claims that Microsoft purposely put "Vista Capable" stickers on computers not at all ready for Vista

Vista has certainly had its criticisms and struggles, including failing grades from the English school system and the dubious distinction of being named PC World's biggest disappointment of 2007.  However, despite this Vista sales have been moderately successful, despite failing to surpass Windows XP's success

However, a major suit accuses Microsoft of knowingly lying to the consumer to boost these sales.

Across the country retailers carrying various laptops and desktops saw there wares begin to sport "Windows Vista Capable" stickers.  The stickers were part of a campaign my Microsoft to continue sales of Windows XP computers, by citing as a selling point the computer's ability to later be updated to Windows Vista.

The new suit challenges that many of the computers bearing this sticker were by no means fully "Vista Capable" as they were not powerful enough to support Vista's advanced features and would only run the most bare bones installation of Windows Vista.  Further the suit accuses Microsoft of knowing this, and willfully misleading less computer-savvy customers into buying machines under false premises.

On Friday the suit went before U.S. District Judge Marsha Pechman in Washington to determine if the lawsuit merited class-action status and whether Washington law applied.

The plaintiffs were represented by Jeffrey Tilden of Gordon Tilden Thomas & Cordell.  In his opening presentation Tilden quoted internal emails which he had gained access too, in which Microsoft employees stated their concerns about the program, which they felt was inaccurate.

The currently sealed documents includes some zingers.  One employee writes, "Even a piece of junk will qualify" for the "Vista Capable" designation.  Another employee, Mike Nash, currently a corporate vice president for Windows product management, states angrily, "I PERSONALLY got burnt ... Are we seeing this from a lot of customers? ... I now have a $2,100 e-mail machine."

Jim Allchin, then the co-president of Microsoft's Platforms and Services Division writes, "We really botched this ... You guys have to do a better job with our customers."

Tilden hinted that numerous retailers had voiced concerns to Microsoft, and he showcased an email from retail giant Walmart demonstrating such concerns.

David Bowermaster, a Microsoft spokesman, dismissed the emails as rogue, insignificant snippets and argued that, "The e-mails cited in today's hearing are isolated, and in many instances, outdated and really just snippets of a broad and thorough review that took place during the development of the Windows Vista Capable program."

Bowermaster argued that his company deserved praise, as according to him, "Throughout this review, Microsoft employees raised concerns and addressed issues with the aim of making this program better for our partners and more valuable for consumers. In the end, we believe we achieved both objectives."

He also pointed out that the company had a separate "Premium ready" sticker campaign.  Microsoft lawyer Stephen Rummage, a lawyer with Davis Wright Tremaine, also argued that there was no class for the suit as customers had different levels of information on the requirements needed and that there were plentiful detailed explanations to elucidate these requirements.  He pointed to numerous magazine articles and online sources that helped consumers by dissecting what requirements they needed to run what features.

The plaintiff's attorney countered this argument stating that the class was united in that all individuals buying "Windows Vista Capable" computers "did not get what they paid for."

The hearing concluded with Pechman stating that she would make a ruling within 10 days about whether the suit had class action status and could proceed.


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$2100?
By BMFPitt on 2/11/2008 12:43:00 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
Another employee, Mike Nash, currently a corporate vice president for Windows product management, states angrily, "I PERSONALLY got burnt ... Are we seeing this from a lot of customers? ... I now have a $2,100 e-mail machine."
What could he have possibly bought for $2100 in the last 2 years that won't run Vista Ultimate, let alone Premium? My old AthlonXP/nForce2 test box ran it decently when I was evaluating it in late 2006.




RE: $2100?
By chsh1ca on 2/11/2008 1:00:44 PM , Rating: 2
An older laptop possibly.

I think this particular "vista-ready" issue occurred for a lot more laptops than desktops.


RE: $2100?
By SirLucius on 2/11/2008 1:16:21 PM , Rating: 4
I dunno. My two year old Dell 1705 cost me ~$2000, and it's running easily running Vista. It's got a 2GHz Yonah Core Duo, 2 gigs of memory, and a 7900GS go. It actually would have cost less but I ended up buying things like a spare battery and power adapter at the same time. I use it for audio recording, 3D modeling/animation, and gaming without a problem. I find it hard to believe that a two year old laptop that cost $1800+ would have a hard time running Vista.


RE: $2100?
By therealnickdanger on 2/11/2008 1:34:37 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly. I loaded Vista RC1 on my old 1705 with the same specs (actually it only had 512MB RAM at the time and the 1.6GHz Yonah). It ran Vista just fine, of course it ran better once I put 2GB RAM in. It handled everything with aplomb.


RE: $2100?
By therealnickdanger on 2/11/2008 1:36:05 PM , Rating: 2
I should note that the laptop didn't even have a "Vista Ready" sticker on it and Dell didn't officially support Vista on it at the time (because it wasn't out yet), yet Vista was able to recognize every driver flawlessly.


RE: $2100?
By Radeon117X on 2/11/2008 2:14:01 PM , Rating: 2
Even my Dad's laptop:
Intel Pentium M 1.6GHz
512MB RAM
ATI Radeon 7000
ran Vista RC1 pretty well. Kind of a joke really, but it ran and he was able to load many different things quite easily. Couldnt play any games (zomg 32MB Radeon 7000 HAHA) but it worked quite well! Vista's pretty scalable on hardware. So, I really wonder how his $2100 laptop cant 'run' vista...that's just not specific enough.


RE: $2100?
By 3kliksphilip on 2/11/2008 5:08:51 PM , Rating: 2
The moment I saw that $2100 quote I knew somebody would have posted about it.

My Dad has my old PC now, comprising of

AMD 2100 XP
512 MB RAM
Geforce 4200 TI 64 mb

I'm surprised that the aero interface didn't work- must be some sort of DirectX 9 feature. There aren't any drivers for it (The 4200 TI) anywhere, and I've had to use the motherboard sound as opposed to the Sound Blaster Live. Apart from that it seems to be alright, even if it is sluggish compared to my new computer (I'm quite pleased about that, considering that I have just spent £700/$1400 on it). What sort of PC can't run Vista at all? I mean, as long as you have 512 mb of ram and a 1 Ghz processor, it should be able to run (At least well enough for the usual word processing / emails). Why would Vista require 512 mb of ram any way? Where's it all going? (If anybody knows a free way of getting the Live! soundcard working, or a proper fix to the Graphics card's lack of drivers, please let me know :)


RE: $2100?
By TomZ on 2/11/08, Rating: 0
RE: $2100?
By tdawg on 2/11/2008 5:48:08 PM , Rating: 3
Also, the TI 4200 isn't DX9 capable. I originally had one when I tested Vista in beta; Vista won't allow you to activate the Aero interface without a hardware DX9 capable card and there are no drivers that can add this capability.


RE: $2100?
By 3kliksphilip on 2/11/2008 5:49:14 PM , Rating: 2
Ahh, so it actually REQUIRES you to have that specification in order to be able to run Aero? (As opposed to letting you run it and find out the hard way that it slows your PC to a crawl). I've just been looking into it in a bit more detail...

'Support for DirectX 9 graphics with a WDDM driver, 128 MB of graphics memory (minimum)², Pixel Shader 2.0 and 32 bits per pixel.'

I guess that's another reason.

...Not that my Dad cares. (He won't spend any money on an upgrade, as he has an opinion that 'It worked with XP, why shouldn't it work with an upgraded operating system?'... not that there's anything wrong with that opinion, considering that he won't be doing anything too graphically intensive on it. That I know of.)

As for my PC, I have had zero problems with the operating system and compatibility. (One of the most overlooked perks of having an up to date system)


RE: $2100?
By maverick85wd on 2/12/2008 10:49:32 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I have had zero problems with the operating system and compatibility. (One of the most overlooked perks of having an up to date system)


overlooked? Isn't that why most people upgrade?.... so their computer will work better/faster/etc.?


RE: $2100?
By glitchc on 2/11/2008 6:22:48 PM , Rating: 2
Regarding the SBLive drivers:

Look up kx project. Works fine for me in Vista 32. Haven't tested it on Vista 64.

Regarding the GF4... you're sol. NVidia has explicitly refused to support all hw older than 6xxx series on Vista. You can try an older third-party one like NGO or Omega drivers with support for the chipset, but they use the NVidia unified library as their base, so it's unlikely it'll work. Check out www.guru3d.com for those.


RE: $2100?
By mindless1 on 2/11/2008 8:30:32 PM , Rating: 2
That's not entirely accurate, right now on nvidia's site you can get a Vista driver for FX (5-series) cards.

Granted it won't do DX9 & Aero, but it is a driver.


RE: $2100?
By StevoLincolnite on 2/11/2008 1:57:16 PM , Rating: 2
I ran it fine on my old Pentium M 1.6ghz (Dothan) 1024mb of SoDimm DDR, and a 64mb Mobility Radeon 9700 Pro - Not bad for a 4 year old machine and able to run all the bells and whistles. - Even handled Oblivion at Medium quality settings while running Vista.


RE: $2100?
By FITCamaro on 2/11/2008 1:28:34 PM , Rating: 3
My laptop from 4 years ago would easily run Vista. 3Ghz P4, 1GB RAM, 60GB hard drive, 128MB 9600 Pro.

If you paid $2100 for a laptop that can't run Vista Home Premium, even 2 years ago, you're an idiot and deserve what you got. I mean when I was testing Vista at an old job about the only system we tested where Aero wasn't usable was when we restricted its RAM. Even with a single core processor, 1GB RAM, and integrated graphics it ran fine.

And that was on a debug build with lots of error checking code going as well.


RE: $2100?
By encryptkeeper on 2/11/2008 3:55:45 PM , Rating: 5
Mike Nash, currently a corporate vice president for Windows product management, states angrily, "I PERSONALLY got burnt ... Are we seeing this from a lot of customers? ... I now have a $2,100 e-mail machine.

Then wipe the machine, load XP on it and move on with your life. If the sticker said, "Windows Vista Capable" on it, it doesn't mean it supports the greatest and most powerful version. It's like watching a car commercial and seeing all the lovely shots of the leather interior, 6 disc CD changer, sunroof and heated seats and saying, "Look that car only costs $23,000." You have to read the small print that says "Price with features shown $37,000."


RE: $2100?
By mindless1 on 2/11/2008 8:33:24 PM , Rating: 3
OK, so long as there's fine print on the sticker that details what'll have to be bought or what features are actually present in Vista with the system configured as it was sold.


RE: $2100?
By Omega215D on 2/12/2008 3:04:02 AM , Rating: 2
That's the thing, weren't there two stickers available depending on the machine? One stating "Vista Capable" and "Vista Ready?"

The capable ones could be upgraded to support all features of Vista and the Ready versions had met all the requirements. Then the stupid OEM manufacturers would load the system down with several useless start up programs, even on Vista Home Basic models.

If anything the OEMs should be sued.

I had Vista on my new MacBook but I decided to put it on my main PC rig. It ran great on the MacBook despite having Intel GMA X3100 graphics (shaders are there).