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AMD's former executive vice president Henri Richard holds an AMD "Barcelona" quad-core processor in his right hand; yet the company's greatest advocate for native quad-core handed in his walking papers just days before the public embargo lifted.  (Source: AMD)
If there was ever a microprocessor that gave me gray hairs, it's "Barcelona"

Over the last 19 months, we've made it no secret that leaking processors and video cards is "our thing." Kentsfield, R520, G80, QuadFX, R600, Penryn -- their benchmarks came and went.  But what was the deal with Barcelona?

Charlie Demerjian may have stated it best when he said people were "dancing in the aisles" after seeing Barcelona's initial performance.  Though as one Intel employee stated, the dancing was in Santa Clara, not Austin.

In a discussion I recently had with an AMD engineer, AMD's Opteron launch this week was described as either, "the most well-executed media-lid in semiconductor history ... or the most minimized." 

I personally adhere to a third explaination -- the September 10th Opteron launch was perhaps the least prepared. How many times did we see the company claim Barcelona would launch in the Summer of 2007?  I suppose we can assume Summer ends at the autumnal equinox, though that still doesn't explain away the countless public declarations that we'd see Barcelona in June, July and then August.

Don't forget that the one of the key forefigures for the K10 project bolted for the door just two days before Monday's launch.  But nevermind the anecdotal evidence that suggests September 10th will be remembed as a day that will live in AMD public relations infamy.  Let's just look at the physical evidence.

Generally obtaining the latest and greatest hardware is but a stone's throw away, assuming you can throw a stone all the way to Taiwan or China. However with Barcelona, two critical factors prevented us from obtaining any functional pre-release hardware: overseas vendors did not receive near-production samples of the processors until August 2007; and when those vendors did receive samples, compatibility with motherboards became a problem.

The June samples first showcased on DailyTech were of the earliest possible silicon.  These samples, labeled B0 stepping and running at a mere 1.6 GHz, were actually spun nearly six months before the processors showcased this week in the Barcelona launch.

Since that benchmark during Computex, I've lost count of the number of mismatched memory, CPU and motherboard combinations I've attempted with pre-production Barcelona samples.  Dual-socket motherboards that would only recognize a single processor; DDR2-667 memory configurations that would perform better than DDR2-800 setups; BSODs and corrupt Windows installations.

Fortunately AMD made sure at least two people had working configurations for Monday -- Scott Wasson and my former boss Anand Shimpi.

I waited on publishing this blog, half-expecting to see some more in depth coverage of benchmarks.  The 2.0 GHz samples we saw on Monday were of AMD's B1 stepping of Barcelona.  But these processors are not the ones we'll see on Newegg's shelves. 

Production Barcelona samples come with the BA revision designator.  These processors, manufactured after work-week 30 (WW30 for those who work in the corporate world) include errata fixes not present in the chips reviewed on September 10th.

One AMD developer, who wished to remain anonymous for non-disclosure purposes, stated, "B1 versus BA should be at least a 5%, if not more, gain in stream, integer and FPU performance."

An AMD engineer, when confronted with the claim, stated that 5% gains when moving from B1 to BA processors "seem conservative."

But why stop at BA or B1.  The 2.5 GHz samples featured on AnandTech's second article are of the newest roadmapped spin; revision B2.  When Shimpi made the inference that the 2.5 GHz Opterons would be the closest thing to Phenom, he was hardly exaggerating.  AMD's current roadmaps peg the the B2 stepping launch for Opteron and Phenom as mid-Q4 2007. 

But wait, the buck doesn't stop at B2 either.  According to engineers at Sun and SuperMicro, B3 silicon is already on its way to American testing facilities.  Unfortunately, AMD's current desktop and server roadmap stops labeling individual processors in Q1 2008.  B3-stepped processors do not appear on that roadmap update.

We'll see at least two more revisions of Barcelona before it gets replaced with AMD's 45nm offering, Shanghai.  But if the September launch is AMD's attempt to put its best foot forward, I might have a lot more gray hair by this time next year.


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Barcelona
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 9/12/2007 8:41:59 PM , Rating: 1
Checking the reviews though, Barcelona isnt the Intel killer the fanboys thought it would be. Not that I ever believed it would be but its nice to be able to put the fanboys over there in their place.

Intel FTW?




RE: Barcelona
By TomZ on 9/12/2007 11:46:52 PM , Rating: 1
I guess the fanboys didn't appreciate being put in their place. :o)


RE: Barcelona
By 16nm on 9/14/2007 5:37:58 PM , Rating: 2
Word of the year: "fanboy"

What are the chances of this? I think I have seen the word "fanboy" more than any other. Probably more than words "the" and "is"!!! Seems when Core 2 Duo hit the streets, the level of use of "fanboy" was taken to the stratosphere.

F - A - N - B - O - Y


RE: Barcelona
By Expunged on 9/13/2007 12:22:45 AM , Rating: 5
It's nice to see such unbiased writing. Makes you sound like an Intel fanboy. I personally am a fanboy of whatever gives me the best price/performance ratio to hold me over until my next build. No AMD fanboy is going to take this as a loss, they will just say "Oh, well Intel is clocked higher" or "Wait for the new steppings" or or or... If it had absolutely wiped the floor with Intel chips, Intel fans would be all over "Wait for Intel to release Penryn" or "It's because the benchmarks are favoring the chips" or or or...

Fanboys are so far out on either side of the spectrum they can't see the forest for the tree in front of them. Not so long ago many of the Intel fanboys were AMD fanboys going on about "Man your P4 EE at 4000 GHz couldn't touch my A64". The few who are still AMD fanboys after the C2D will be AMD fanboys until they die. Only the true fanboys stick with a company no matter how poor their product is and it takes people like that to keep the company floating until they can strike back. I'd much rather have AMD still trying to fight than have them roll over and play dead... Unless you want your C2D chip to cost 3x what it does now.


RE: Barcelona
By mostpatriotic on 9/13/07, Rating: 0
RE: Barcelona
By rdeegvainl on 9/13/2007 5:06:14 AM , Rating: 2
What is your point?
Your sounding very much like a troll.


RE: Barcelona
By froggermaster on 9/13/2007 11:29:39 PM , Rating: 2
Repeating material of other's usually indicates trolling ..


RE: Barcelona
By Expunged on 9/13/2007 1:25:04 PM , Rating: 2
Hence I write this from an Intel powered system, but when my wife needed a new computer, she got an AMD X2 that runs everything she needs just fine and cost less. In her situation, the price/performance went to AMD.


RE: Barcelona
By Shadowmaster625 on 9/13/2007 3:09:54 PM , Rating: 1
AMD is competitve on virtually all fronts. If you only have $500 to spend on a system, you are going to get the most performance out of an AMD system. (If built right ... not built by the hacks at THG.) Only when you get up near 2 grand does it AMD lose it's edge, because they dont really have any products to compete at the high end. This has been the norm through much of AMD's history. The Athlon 64 vs netburst was sort of a fluke. But dollar for dollar AMD has always been the better performer. Going back all the way to the 386...


RE: Barcelona
By froggermaster on 9/13/2007 11:34:20 PM , Rating: 2
I can build a $500 system with either chip and the fastest one would be the C2D .. it's simply faster.

C2D starts at $120


RE: Barcelona
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 9/13/07, Rating: -1
RE: Barcelona
By Amiga500 on 9/13/2007 9:06:51 AM , Rating: 2
I disagree, I think AMD do dictate it somewhat.

AMD are dictating the bottom to mid pricing - and Intel have to price their low speed stuff to compete. In the current environment (regarding monopolies) they cannot have a massive gulf between lower-mid and upper-mid CPU prices with insane $2K+ top end prices, or the EU/FTC would be down on them like a ton of bricks. [kinda like saying their price-performance has to scale reasonably linearly I suppose]

While Core2 is significantly faster than K8, it performance advantage doesn't allow Intel to price the whole line above AMD and take the approach "those K8s are so slow in comparison, no-one will buy them, no matter what the price".


RE: Barcelona
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 9/13/07, Rating: 0
RE: Barcelona
By Expunged on 9/13/2007 1:54:30 PM , Rating: 2
"Conversely Intel managed to keep prices decent during the P4 era not because their product was better, but because their marketing was fantastic, AMD's marketing (or lack there of) is a joke."

Quote of the century... You call a bunch of guys in blue body paint jumping around on your TV screen "fantastic"? I see you are easily amused. Marketing played a role but it was maily brand loyalty. I can tell you of hundreds of
computers I know were sold over a better performing AMD solely because they said "Intel Inside" on the front. People were going "Who's this AMD company" or "Aren't they the ones who had thos knockoff 486 chips?"

Intel C2D forced AMD to lower their prices, no argument. This type of thing is good for consumers no matter if it's Intel forcing AMD's hand or AMD forcing Intel's hand. Had Barcelona benchmarks shown 200% increases Intel would be dropping prices again and AMD would have them in a corner again. The implied criminals at AMD who "steal" market share from Intel would be back in the game.

Why would anybody in their right mind laugh at AMD and Intel getting in a lawsuit over pricing? It can only hurt the end consumers who would each pay some fraction of the millions of dollars of settlement on whichever end. If AMD wants to sell chips for a loss, more power to them, it will only reward the consumers who can either buy the cheap chips or buy Intel's equally low priced chips when Intel is forced to play the same game.


RE: Barcelona
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 9/13/2007 4:00:45 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Quote of the century... You call a bunch of guys in blue body paint jumping around on your TV screen "fantastic"? I see you are easily amused. Marketing played a role but it was maily brand loyalty. I can tell you of hundreds of computers I know were sold over a better performing AMD solely because they said "Intel Inside" on the front. People were going "Who's this AMD company" or "Aren't they the ones who had thos knockoff 486 chips?"

You stated my point more clearly than I could. Intel's "Blue Men" got them recognition, people remembered the Intel jingle and the blue men all over their TV's. AMD had NOTHING hell I can't remember an AMD commercial from back then hitting my TV. People went to buy something they saw, and Intel made itself known. Again, back to my earlier statement, Intel's marketing was top notch. It may have been silly and goofy but it gave them brand recognition.

quote:
The implied criminals at AMD who "steal" market share from Intel would be back in the game.

Companies steal marketshare from each other all the time, its called doing business. There is nothing "criminal in it".

quote:
If AMD wants to sell chips for a loss, more power to them

I'm sorry but there is this thing called "dumping" and its technically illegal in the United States. If the situations were reversed you can bet AMD would be sueing Intel for "dumping" and "predatory pricing". The only reason Intel isn't doing it is because AMD isn't much of a threat now that Intel has a large boot on their throat. Once Intel switches to 45nm they can afford to drop prices further and pretty much demolish AMD if they wanted to, but by keeping them controlled and locked into the smaller budget market, Intel can claim the existence of AMD as not being a "monopoly".


RE: Barcelona
By crystal clear on 9/14/2007 4:21:16 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
AMD is bordering on "dumping" at the price some of their processors sell for and Intel might be able to sue them for it. (I would laugh long and hard if they did) Right now AMD is likely (or damn close to it) selling some processors at a loss, while Intel is still making a decent margin on each processor sold (45nm will increase that for Intel).


Fighting for survival & not business as usual for AMD.

AMD is certainly not a united camp-expect many more resignations in the near future.

Its like a ship that has taken a direct hit & the distress signal already sent out.

"Ship in distress-not sunk yet"


RE: Barcelona
By TomZ on 9/13/2007 9:16:11 AM , Rating: 2
I also disagree - the competitive pressure from AMD has surely caused Intel to (a) lower its prices relative to what it otherwise would have been able to charge, and (b) accelerate development of higher-performing chips.

Intel already proved in the past that, without significant competition, they just slow down and collect money. Things changed a lot once AMD bested them.


RE: Barcelona
By