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  (Source: Getty Images)
But study does not appear to clearly indicate whether it's part of a broader caloric problem

In 2011 and 2012 the U.S. federal government paid$7.3B USD in corn subsidies, most of which went in the pockets of "big corn" -- Cargill, Inc., Archer Daniels Midland Comp. (ADM), Gavilon, and ConAgra Foods, Inc. (CAG).  These corporations control roughly 60 percent of the market according to a 2007 National Farmer's Union (NFU) report [PDF], and have deep ties to top federal politicians (for example Gavilon co-owner George Soros donated $5M USD to President Obama and fellow pro-corn Democrats in the last election cycle).  

In addition to lining the pockets of big corn these subsidies have served to make corn syrup cheap, in turn propagating the sugary foods and beverages that use it such as pop/soda/coke.

I. Study Ties Sugary Pop to Violent Children

Researchers at Columbia University have performed a statistical analysis of data on 3,000 5-year-old children enrolled in the Fragile Families and Child Wellbeing Study, a study that's tracking both mothers and children in 20 large U.S. cities.

While much of the study -- including the Child Behavior Checklist -- focuses on psychological and sociological content, part of the study also focuses on diet, inquiring about soft drinking consumption.  This in turn offers some interesting opportunities to see if there's really a link between corn syrup and child misbehavior, which corn syrup's critics have long alleged.

The study found that 43 percent of children consumed one or more soft drink serving a day, while 4 percent consumed 4 servings or more a day.  A clear correlation was found between "aggression, withdrawal, and attention problems (i.e. ADHD)" and soft drink consumption.

But soft drinks are cheap; simple logic would suggest poverty would both predispose kids to behavior issues and to heavy consumption of cheaper foods.  But the Columbia team claims that even with "sociodemographic factors, maternal depression, intimate partner violence, and paternal incarceration" removed, there's still a clear correlation between "any soft drink consumption was associated with increased aggressive behavior."

Children who drank 4 or more soft drinks a day were found to be twice as likely to exhibit violent behavior -- breaking toys, getting in fights with peers, and physically attacking adults.

II. Is the High Fructose Corn Syrup or the Higher Caloric Intake in General to Blame?

Dr. Shakira Suglia, ScD, the study's first author comments, "We found that the child's aggressive behavior score increased with every increase in soft drinks servings per day."

The conclusions are controversial, given recent efforts by certain state and city governments (including Mayor Michael Bloomberg's New York City regime) to regulate soft drink consumption.

Soft drink ban
Some, like New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, have pushed to restrict or ban soft drinks to curb public obesity and related health issues. [Image Source: AP]

The compelling question is whether the authors overlooked some correlation or greater overarching trend.  Despite the inarguable criticism over big corn and government handouts, the case against high fructose corn syrup (HFCS) is sketchier from a scientific perspective.  No sweeter than table sugar, and with a similar caloric profile it does not appear HFCS is significantly different from its more expensive traditional brethren.

On the flip side both sucrose and corn syrup consumption has risen sharply over the last couple decades as obesity in America has also spiked.  A technical paper [abstract] arguably sponsored by big corn (from the White Technical Research food and beverage industry consulting firm) raises this interesting chicken or egg dilemma in a recent 2008 paper in defense of HFCS.  While undeniably biased the paper does show data indicating that HFCS consumption has only risen roughly proportionally with the increase in overall calories.

Thus while there appears to be a clear link between HFCS and child misbehavior, it remains to be seen if the true correlation is between caloric intake and misbehavior.  If that was a case, it would still be an indictment of gov't subsidizing of corporate farming of high caloric foods (e.g. oil and sugar crops), but would provide a more rational scientific explanation for this otherwise confusing conclusion.

The paper on Dr. Suglia, et al.'s work was published [abstract] in The Journal of Pediatrics.

Sources: The Journal of Pediatrics [abstract], Elsevier/Columbia Univ. [press release]



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Bad Parents
By Reclaimer77 on 8/19/2013 5:08:14 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Children who drank 4 or more soft drinks a day were found to be twice as likely to exhibit violent behavior -- breaking toys, getting in fights with peers, and physically attacking adults.


Attacking adults. Attacking!? A 5 year old?

Seems like bad parenting is the root cause. Only bad parents would allow a 5 year old to drink soft drinks in the first place. And there's obviously a major lack of discipline if your 5 year old is going around "attacking" adults.

I cannot even imaging what would happen in our household if we went around attacking adults as a kid. My parents would absolutely never stand for that.




RE: Bad Parents
By Jammrock on 8/19/2013 5:20:34 PM , Rating: 2
Don't be too quick to judge. Being a parent I can understand. Sort of.

A 2-liter of soda is cheaper than a gallon of milk or bottle of juice. And your kids are always much more happy drinking the soda than either. While giving the soda to your kids to pacify them can be construed as bad parenting, when money is tight and every penny counts soda can be an appealing option. Especially in areas that have bad or harmful tap water.

The only non-water-but-cheaper-than-soda option is mix drinks (i.e. Kool-Aid like powders). Which are either sugary (a cup of sugar per 2 quarts) or full of artificial sweeteners.

Furthermore, in some parts of the country it is cheaper to eat out than buy groceries. Going out means water or sugary drinks ... in most cases. Some fast food has milk and juice as an option now.

Fortunately I have never been either of these positions. My kids get water foremost, then milk, then juice, and, as a treat, the occasional soda.


RE: Bad Parents
By Samus on 8/19/2013 5:40:31 PM , Rating: 2
We buy 1% organic milk in our household because it is sweeter (part of the ultra pasteurization process) and we find our kids drink it more willingly over juices and water.

But I agree with the OP, it is hard to compete with the price of $0.99 2 liter bottles of pop or even-cheaper Kool-Aid when organic milk and non-concentrate orange juice is 3-5x more expensive.

On a side note, we've found making Kool-Aid with Agave nectar is a good alternative to sugar as it dissolves well in liquid, is completely natural (like honey) and has 1/3 the calories for the same sweetness of sugar.


RE: Bad Parents
By StevoLincolnite on 8/20/2013 7:10:03 AM , Rating: 5
You would also be surprised HOW much sugar is actually in things like Orange and Apple juice, it's almost no better for you than soft drink.

The healthiest drink for you, is obviously water and is essentially free anyway if you have a rain water tank.

As a kid, that's all I *ever* drank, never milk, soft drink, cordials or fruit juices as my parents could never afford it and even today I might buy something like a bottle of orange juice over water once every few months, it's simply the healthiest drink available for everyone.


RE: Bad Parents
By domboy on 8/20/2013 8:30:45 AM , Rating: 4
quote:
The healthiest drink for you, is obviously water and is essentially free anyway if you have a rain water tank.

As a kid, that's all I *ever* drank


That's what I was thinking... how is soda cheaper than water anyway?? Tap water, not bottled water. And if your tap water tastes funny get a filter! There is no good reason that a kid should be drinking so much sugar. Of course they are going to be hyper. And I'm sorry, but if the kid is really thirsty he/she will eventually drink the water even if it's not their first preference.


RE: Bad Parents
By PitViper007 on 8/20/2013 4:40:43 PM , Rating: 2
Yep. That's part of the reason when I had to buy a new refrigerator, I got one with water and ice in the door. Water is the best thing for you.


RE: Bad Parents
By toffty on 8/20/2013 11:48:20 AM , Rating: 2
The thing to remember about Apple and Orange Juice is that the sugar in them is natural. The sugar found in soft drink / kool-aid is ultra refined and completely not natural. The body has a harder/longer time digesting the refined sugar as opposed to the natural sugars.


RE: Bad Parents
By chripuck on 8/20/2013 11:56:44 AM , Rating: 2
No, no it doesn't. There is absolutely zero difference between the fructose in drinks and the fructose in apple juice.

Eating apples is a different story, because you are getting vitamins, water and most importantly, fiber. Fiber actually slows the absorption of sugar down in your body, thus slowing down the sugar spike you get from sugary drinks.


RE: Bad Parents
By Samus on 8/20/2013 2:02:32 PM , Rating: 2
You are all misinformed about the chemical structure of HFCS in relation to juice sugars (and all sugars for that matter.)

HFCS is "high-fructose" which can be as high as 90% fructose where as natural sugar (cane sugar, table sugar, etc) and juice sugars are mostly, if not entirely, sucrose. HFCS is processed differently by the body. The industry claims to use HFCS-55 in soft drinks (55% fructose) and HFCS-42 in bakes goods and foods, but most lab studies show HFCS-90 is used in almost everything because it is cheapest to produce (less corn syrup is blended with "rear" sugar)

quote:
No, no it doesn't. There is absolutely zero difference between the fructose in drinks and the fructose in apple juice.


While that could be true when comparing a favorable blend of HFCS to a high-fructose juice like orange juice, you have left "manufacturing" out of the equation. HFCS is highly chlorinated during production with synthetic agents. Sucralose (Splenda) is highly chlorinated as well. Chlorine is a toxin to the body. Like our wheat products (high gluten) many of our sugar products are banned for import in many countries because of how they are manufactured.

The true danger of HFCS is how we use it in honey production. There has been a world-wide bee epidemic for nearly a decade, coincidentally, right about the time HFCS was used as a sucrose replacement for honey bees. This has negatively affected pollen production world-wide, being scientifically linked to reduced immunity and high rate of mortality in bees.

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/04/26/13038...


RE: Bad Parents
By chripuck on 8/20/2013 2:46:55 PM , Rating: 2
I'm fully aware of how fructose is processed by the body, but thanks for your non-explanation.

For those who read his vague post, fructose is processed by your liver, not your pancreas, and has very little impact on your bodies sugar levels. This leads to higher calorie intake because you don't get the natural full feeling that glucose provides. It's also why high fructose sugars, both artificially created and natural (e.g. agave) are good for diabetics. Sweet taste, but does not affect your blood sugar.

On the note of HFCS: most in used in food production is 55/45. Natural table sugar is 50/50. Table sugar is NOT pure glucose, nor is the sugar found in apples. http://www.livestrong.com/article/30454-list-foods...

In regards to it's chemical makeup, do you have any sources that show the chemical makeup of the fructose molecule in HFCS is different than the chemical makeup of the fructose molecule in fruit? I'd be curious to read that.


RE: Bad Parents
By Solandri on 8/20/2013 4:28:32 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
HFCS is "high-fructose" which can be as high as 90% fructose where as natural sugar (cane sugar, table sugar, etc) and juice sugars are mostly, if not entirely, sucrose. HFCS is processed differently by the body. The industry claims to use HFCS-55 in soft drinks (55% fructose) and HFCS-42 in bakes goods and foods, but most lab studies show HFCS-90 is used in almost everything because it is cheapest to produce (less corn syrup is blended with "rear" sugar)

Whoa, slow down there. This is something I see pretty frequently. People dislike something, so when choosing a rationale to explain it, they pick the worst one possible. Even if it contradicts their conclusion.

Natural corn syrup is mostly glucose. It's converted into HFCS by a process (which costs money) which converts some of that glucose into fructose. (The reason they do this is because fructose is nearly twice as sweet as glucose, but more on that later.) So you have it backwards - HFCS-90 is actually the most expensive product (it's made by processing corn syrup to make HFCS-42, then further processing the HFCS-42).

So assuming equal amounts of sugar, using HFCS-90 in soft drinks would be more expensive than using HFCS-55 or HFCS-42. The only reason you'd use HFCS-90 instead of HFCS-55 is because fructose is sweeter than glucose. That means you can use less of it while maintaining the same amount of sweetness. Yes that means you could save money by using less HFCS-90 than HFCS-55 to get the same amount of sweetness, but that would decrease the sugar content of the drink thus making it healthier. And indeed that's exactly what they do in diet soft drinks that don't use sugar substitutes. These use HFCS-90 to provide the same sweetness with less sugar (fewer calories).

So (1) there is no cost-incentive (if you aim for the same amount of sugar) to use HFCS-90 instead of HFCS-55, and in fact it's cheaper to use HFCS-55. And (2) if they did use HFCS-90 instead of HFCS-55 (aiming for the same amount of sweetness), they'd essentially be producing diet soda which would be less fattening for the people drinking it. Without a doubt they'd take advantage of this to lower the calories listed on the FDA label for the drink. So the reason you give for use of HFCS-90 instead of HFCS-55 simply doesn't make sense.

"Natural" sugar is sucrose (glucose and fructose are natural too, but I guess some people like to refer to just sucrose as natural). It's a disaccharide - basically two simpler sugar molecules (monosaccharides) glued together. Your body cannot use raw sucrose. It must first break it down into its constituent monosaccharides. In sucrose's case, the two monosaccharides are... (drumroll) ... glucose and fructose. So sucrose becomes 50% glucose, 50% fructose in your body.

For comparison:

"Natural" sugar = 50% fructose, 50% glucose
HFCS-42 = 42% fructose, 58% glucose
HFCS-55 = 55% fructose, 45% glucose

Note: The "high fructose" in HFCS simply refers to the fact that it contains more fructose than regular corn syrup (which is nearly all glucose). It does not mean it is predominantly fructose or has substantially more fructose than regular table sugar after it's been broken down in your body.

quote:
While that could be true when comparing a favorable blend of HFCS to a high-fructose juice like orange juice, you have left "manufacturing" out of the equation.

That's certainly a valid possibility.

quote:
HFCS is highly chlorinated during production with synthetic agents. Sucralose (Splenda) is highly chlorinated as well. Chlorine is a toxin to the body.

Chlorine is necessary for our survival. The sodium channels which allow our nerves to transmit signals rely on shuffling sodium and potassium ions across cellular membranes. The other half of the ion is chlorine. We get it from table salt (sodium chloride).

While concentrated elemental chlorine is dangerous and harmful, it's a far stretch to then conclude that any chlorine must therefore be bad and our bodies cannot handle it. Drinking water and swimming pool water is chlorinated because the harm from the chlorine is less than the harm from potential pathogens the chlorine kills.

quote:
The true danger of HFCS is how we use it in honey production. There has been a world-wide bee epidemic for nearly a decade, coincidentally, right about the time HFCS was used as a sucrose replacement for honey bees.

Scientists have been trying to figure out the cause of colony collapse disorder for close to a decade now. They have not reached any conclusions. It's irresponsible and alarmist to imply CCD is caused by HFCS when no such link has been conclusively established.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_collapse_disor...


RE: Bad Parents
By chripuck on 8/20/2013 11:52:36 AM , Rating: 2
You do realize that Agave is 90% fructose? It makes high fructose corn syrup (at 55%) look like low fructose corn syrup. Agave is good for one group of people and only one: diabetics. Otherwise you're getting all the calories of sugar without the chemical signal to your brain that you are full.

Also, the "it's natural so it's ok" reasoning is crazy. Unroasted almonds are natural, but you don't see anybody going round eating those...


RE: Bad Parents
By CaedenV on 8/20/2013 1:28:55 PM , Rating: 2
LOL! Almonds are the example I use to give all of my hippie friends back in Cali when they would go spouting off on their tangents.
Nature hates you! Always remember that and you will live a long and healthy life!


RE: Bad Parents
By Reclaimer77 on 8/19/2013 5:53:08 PM , Rating: 3
Hey Jammrock.

I didn't mean you're a bad parent because your kid drinks the occasional soda. But 4 a day, AND violently attacking people? Well maybe you're a bad parent then lol.

quote:
The only non-water-but-cheaper-than-soda option is mix drinks (i.e. Kool-Aid like powders). Which are either sugary (a cup of sugar per 2 quarts) or full of artificial sweeteners.


Yeah but you mix Kool-Aid yourself. You don't HAVE to follow directions. You could cut the sugar added by a third and it would still taste better than water. And if the kids don't like it, screw em, they can go to their room without supper! :P lol


RE: Bad Parents
By Jammrock on 8/19/2013 10:41:07 PM , Rating: 2
I didn't think you were. I was pointing out a hypothetical situation. Soda really is super cheap compared to healthy drinks (except tap water).

The agave nectar instead of sugar idea is pretty neat. I'll have to try that out.


RE: Bad Parents
By cknobman on 8/20/2013 10:01:53 AM , Rating: 2
I disagree. Bottled water is super cheap. I can get a 40 pack of 16oz bottled watters for less than $4.00.

Sure my kids would rather have soda but as a responsible parent I dont let them have what they want to "pacify" them. My kids dont act up because as a responsible parent they know I enforce consequences for their behavior.

To make it still affordable and help my kids have something besides plain water we buy the Crystal Light (or equivalent off brand) flavor packets to put in the bottled waters. They come in low sugar or sugar free varieties and make the water taste like a flavored drink.


RE: Bad Parents
By chripuck on 8/20/2013 11:58:54 AM , Rating: 2
Agave nectar is a bad idea. Look it up, it's mostly fructose, so your kids get all of the calories of sugar with none of our natural "I'm full" feeling we get from eating sugar.


RE: Bad Parents
By carnex on 8/20/2013 4:28:25 AM , Rating: 2
What I remember from when I was at that age is that I had simple choice. Water, slightly sweetened tea or to be thirsty. I didn't have a choice to indulge in sugar. Also, tea and tap water are much cheaper.

Maybe, as a consequence, even today I prefer bitter dark coffee, tea, tap water of fruit beer to any carbonated soda.


RE: Bad Parents
By chripuck on 8/20/2013 12:00:09 PM , Rating: 4
Amen brother, amen. My kids can drink 1% milk or water. My nearly 4 year old actually dislikes soda because he's so used to water now. It also helps that my wife and I only drink milk or water and those are the only two things to drink in the house.


RE: Bad Parents
By CaedenV on 8/20/2013 1:33:00 PM , Rating: 2
indeed! Growing up, if there was ever soda or ice cream in the fridge then we started asking who was coming over for dinner, because it was sure to be someone important... and just because it was in the fridge did not mean we were going to get any of it.


RE: Bad Parents
By 91TTZ on 8/20/2013 10:44:22 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
A 2-liter of soda is cheaper than a gallon of milk or bottle of juice. And your kids are always much more happy drinking the soda than either. While giving the soda to your kids to pacify them can be construed as bad parenting, when money is tight and every penny counts soda can be an appealing option. Especially in areas that have bad or harmful tap water.


Feeding your kids crap is never an appealing option. Only bad parents would take that option. It's the quick and easy way out of parenting.


RE: Bad Parents
By CaedenV on 8/20/2013 1:18:46 PM , Rating: 2
I am not sure that I buy the whole 'healthy food is more expensive than eating out' thing. My wife and I recently started getting our act together towards getting out of debt. Come to find out that we had been spending ~$600/mo between groceries, fast food, and the occasional eating out. We removed the eating out and fast food (by far the hardest part for me!), started shopping at a cheaper store instead of the big grocery store, and started taking advantage of coupons and deals that we find. Now we are spending a mere ~$280/mo on groceries to feed 2 adults, 1 kiddo, and 1 infant (That is $320/mo I could be spending on tech toys!). So with 3 people eating solid food, with 3 (very) full meals a day, that comes down to $1.11 per meal, per person. There is no fast food on earth that can compare with that kind of price and quantity. On top of that we are not compromising to the point to forcing ourselves to eat food that we dislike, and we are not compromising on the quantity of our food either. In fact, because we are planning our meals instead of just eating 'whatever whenever' we are eating a lot healthier food, which will hold its own benefits in time. So we are eating healthier AND cheaper, which is something I always thought was not possible.

On top of that, if a person is truly poor then there is WIC to pay for that 'expensive' healthy food and drinks! It is one of the few government programs that I can actually approve of even if it is abused by some.

As we have found with our little escapade in attempting to spend less money, it is not so much that food is expensive, it is that the deals change every week, and you have to give a little concerted effort to plan out meals that take advantage of what deals are available. A little bit of planning with your eyes open goes a long way towards cutting the bills down.

Buying soda instead of something healthy is an excuse, not a money saving tip.


RE: Bad Parents
By ClownPuncher on 8/20/2013 2:02:54 PM , Rating: 2
Most soft drinks do not hydrate you.


RE: Bad Parents
By ppardee on 8/21/2013 1:37:09 PM , Rating: 2
For the record, it is NEVER cheaper to go out than to buy groceries. Ever. Whoever told you that lie needs to be slapped in the face with a bunch of bananas.

And why can't your kids drink water? If your kids throw a fit when they don't have something sweet/flavored to drink, that's bad parenting. They should be drinking water primarily and see flavored drinks as a treat, not drinking flavored drinks primarily and seeing water as a horrible last resort if times get desperate.


RE: Bad Parents
By JasonMick (blog) on 8/19/2013 5:24:50 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
I cannot even imaging what would happen in our household if we went around attacking adults as a kid. My parents would absolutely never stand for that.
You were likely born before the nanny state took full grip over the U.S.A.

Pastor Gets Two Years in Prison for Advocating Spanking
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/...

Mississipi state bill aims for life sentence for parents who spank their children
http://www.hslda.org/hs/state/ms/201201230.asp

Now I by no means advocate abuse or causing serious damage to a child (e.g. bruises), but if a child chronically misbehaves I see no reason why a responsible parent shouldn't use mild corporal punishment along side taking away toys/privileges/etc.

Anyhow, that's just one small issue, but I feel that society as a whole is turning parents and children into a bunch of politically correct, temperamental, over-sensitive, emasculated emotional weaklings, who then occasionally explode with far worse behavior than they would have "in the old days".

*sigh* /oldmanrant


RE: Bad Parents
By Samus on 8/19/2013 5:42:42 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Pastor Gets Two Years in Prison for Advocating Spanking


What the hell happened to that mans' first amendment!?


RE: Bad Parents
By Reclaimer77 on 8/19/2013 5:47:07 PM , Rating: 2
Or this guy:

http://nationalreport.net/missouri-fair-rodeo-clow...

This is not America anymore, not really.

Jason is spot on, of course. Political correctness and the nanny state mentality is destroying the fabric of the country.


RE: Bad Parents
By Monkey's Uncle on 8/19/2013 5:56:36 PM , Rating: 2
Did you read the article linked to that? It kinda goes into details about it.


RE: Bad Parents
By 1prophet on 8/19/2013 6:53:26 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe the ACLU should look into the details of this case, surely if they can defend NAMBLA this guy shouldn't be a problem for them.


RE: Bad Parents
By Mint on 8/20/2013 8:28:38 AM , Rating: 1
Did you read the article?

quote:
Caminiti did, however, reportedly demonstrate to parents how to use the rod. "The rod can be somewhat new and unfamiliar," said Caminiti, "And so, it's just a way of showing, teaching, explaining how practicing on oneself can just be helpful." During cross-examination, prosecutors questioned Caminiti on his biblical beliefs.

"And the purpose of the use of the rod is to cause pain, is that correct?" asked Dane County District Assistant Attorney Shelly Rusch.

"Yes," replied Caminiti.

Teaching parents how to hit their kids with a rod? We have long criminalized free speech that incites violence, and you have to draw the line somewhere. This seems reasonable to me.


RE: Bad Parents
By 91TTZ on 8/20/2013 10:54:15 AM , Rating: 2
What's the difference if they use a rod as opposed to a belt or a ruler? A nanny-stater would say that all 3 are "weapons" and obviously they're all meant to inflict pain. That's the point of spanking.


RE: Bad Parents
By Reclaimer77 on 8/20/2013 11:01:03 AM , Rating: 4
You honestly feel throwing a man in jail for two years is perfectly justifiable? Do you understand what that does to someone? The man's life has been irrevocably downgraded, all because he exercised his First Amendment rights.

He didn't hurt a child. He didn't do anything. The man spoke, he gave his opinion. The parents also have the right to NOT listen to his opinion. What violence was "incited" exactly? Do you have any evidence that even ONE child was spanked because of him?

You really make me sick with this. We have the largest percentage of our population in prisons in the civilized world. America! Home of the free? When you see innocent peoples lives destroyed over petty things like this, things our Constitution is supposed to protect, how can you approve? What is wrong with you!


RE: Bad Parents
By ClownPuncher on 8/20/2013 2:19:24 PM , Rating: 1
This does nothing to incite violence. People have free will, nobody is forcing anyone to spank their kids.

Maybe you should fuck off with your bullshit attitude. The first amendment needs no line drawn.


RE: Bad Parents
By Ammohunt on 8/19/2013 10:47:46 PM , Rating: 2
My kids get mild corporal punishment and everywhere they go people comment on how well behaved they are...imagine that..spare the rod..


RE: Bad Parents
By chripuck on 8/20/2013 12:01:44 PM , Rating: 2
I find that conditional spanking is a great final escalation point. After one or two now all I have to do is ask if he wants a spanking and he shapes up.

Did you know it's illegal in Germany to spank your kids?


RE: Bad Parents
By Reclaimer77 on 8/20/2013 12:09:56 PM , Rating: 2
Aww yeah, that's what I'm talking about.

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=be...


RE: Bad Parents
By chripuck on 8/20/2013 12:13:32 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not sure how to take your post...

I in no way beat my child. I never spank him out of anger, I use an open hand and it's always on the butt. There's never a bruise and crying lasts no more than 30 seconds. It's highly conditional, highly warned, so that when it happens they know their behavior is what brought that consequence. My child does NOT fear me in anyway and I've had to spank him only a few times in his entire life.


RE: Bad Parents
By Reclaimer77 on 8/20/2013 12:29:01 PM , Rating: 2
No no man. I think you're doing the right thing. I just posted that link to troll the anti-discipline crowd. I should have been more clear, I just thought it was funny. Had nothing to do with your parenting.


RE: Bad Parents
By chripuck on 8/20/2013 2:49:27 PM , Rating: 2
What I thought, but with the pro-Wisconsin preacher in jail crowd here, I didn't want to be reported for child abuse...

Bizarre world we live in.


RE: Bad Parents
By mmntech on 8/19/2013 7:25:20 PM , Rating: 2
What a lot of people forget is correlation does not equal causation. Just because kids who consume a lot of sugary drinks are more violent, doesn't mean sugary drinks are causing violence in children. What seems to be going on here is indeed socio-economic. No decent parent would allow a five year old to drink that much liquid candy. That poor a diet signals possible economic or social problems within the family.


RE: Bad Parents
By retrospooty on 8/19/2013 7:41:48 PM , Rating: 2
"Seems like bad parenting is the root cause. Only bad parents would allow a 5 year old to drink soft drinks in the first place. And there's obviously a major lack of discipline if your 5 year old is going around "attacking" adults."

Exactly, studies like this find a correlation, but are wrong with cause and effect. It's not necessarily that children that drink alot of soda have behavior issues, it's that children with parents that are too lax, and/or are just checked out and/or are just stupid, tend to parent less and /or less effectively and therefore kids are prone to eat and drink what they want and are more prone to behavior issues as well. In other words too much sugary drinks and behavior problems are both symptoms of bad parenting, not that behavior problems are a symptom of too much sugary drinks.


RE: Bad Parents
By dgingerich on 8/19/2013 7:59:50 PM , Rating: 2
It is bad parenting. It's pretty simple, really.

Parents shelter and praise the child no matter what they're done, telling them they're 'special,' and refusing any negative 'punishments,' and giving them whatever they want, including too much pop. This gives the child the impression that they're the center of the world and can do no wrong, nurturing selfishness, a disregard for the results of their actions on other people, and a disregard for rules, courtesy, or even laws.

I've seen far too many adults like this. I've seen so many new IT guys, in their early 20's, who have grown up with this impression. They're been through a college that lets them through just for doing the work, and not even testing if they actually know the materials. Sure, they're got degrees, but they can hardly interpret NTFS permissions or create a user account. Their work ethic is horrible, frequently sitting back and watching others get the work done while they do little to nothing. They get hired, they think they own the world, and then the boss figures out they have no idea what they're doing and can't be bothered to do even what they can do. They get fired within a couple months, and walk out in a huff, half shouting about law suits. I've even seen two steal computer hardware and then whine when they get fired for it.

Nearly all of them comment on how their parents never punished them at one point or another. It's the 70's & 80's child rearing advice that went so counter to what had worked for millenia. The 'experts' promoted sparing the rod, and most of a generation is ruined. we're going to pay for that for decades.


RE: Bad Parents
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RE: Bad Parents
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RE: Bad Parents
By room200 on 8/20/2013 11:28:24 PM , Rating: 2
Only bad parents would allow a 5 year old to drink soft drinks in the first place.

What? And I'll bet you were the first to defend parents allowing their "trained" children to handle a firearm.


RE: Bad Parents
By Moishe on 8/22/2013 11:10:59 AM , Rating: 2
One thing I've learned about American culture is this:

It's NEVER our own fault. Americans are so short on personal responsibility that they don't even know what it means.

I grew up as a super poor kid in a divorced home and we went through 1-3 three-liter bottles of non-diet soda every day. Despite that, I never attacked anyone, was never violent, and was never a bully.

Why? Because my Mom would kick my ass. Plain and simple. We were taught to respect adults, listening, share, the golden rule, etc.

This is another pet peeve of mine. I am by no means a religious person, but religious principles (especially Judeo-Christian) are largely very positive. People want to blame religion and get religion out of everything at all costs, but then they whine and moan when kids grow up with very few positive moral beliefs, honor, and boundaries. Vague and uncertain morals and boundaries are NOT positive and yet Americans teach their kids this stuff either actively, or through inaction.

Kids/humans need structure. They NEED programming. Without it, they lack the solid base that they need to make proper decisions later on in life. Many parents are too idealistic, stupid, or lazy and they produce kids who are the same. And society continues to spiral around the toilet because of it.

But I digress. Sugar and caffeine make kids hyper and contribute to medical issues. No sh&T sherlock... Some kids are naturally rough and hyper and some aren't. A one-size-fits-all approach is NOT good. A hyper kid with discipline will be a pain in the arse, not a violent little jerk. The last thing we need is more mass prescribed ritalin because mommy doesn't understand that her kid is a *kid* and not necessarily some kind of medically imbalanced freak.


A little young for soda
By valkator on 8/19/2013 4:49:04 PM , Rating: 5
Nothing like feeding 5 year old children soda. I wasn't allowed to drink soda until I was 13 and it was more of a treat than an everyday drink.




RE: A little young for soda
By Kefner on 8/19/2013 4:56:41 PM , Rating: 1
Oh yea? I'm really proud of ya!


RE: A little young for soda
By Ammohunt on 8/19/2013 5:04:28 PM , Rating: 2
There is very little difference between something like Apple juice and clear soda. My kids prefer water but the do get sugary drinks only a treat. The funny part of the story is that forever "scientists" have been denying sugar has any affect on children...any parent knows for a fact that high amounts of sugar have a direct impact on childrens behavior.


RE: A little young for soda
By Nfarce on 8/19/2013 5:27:13 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly. I just read an article this morning that fruit juices (even OJ) we give kids is no better than sodas. This is because the fibers in the fruit are destroyed, which helps the liver metabolize the vitamins and nutrients and regulate sucrose intake. It effectively pushes sugar right into the system just like soda. Drinking a glass of apple juice does not equal the health benefits of eating a couple of apples.


RE: A little young for soda
By Ammohunt on 8/19/2013 10:59:47 PM , Rating: 2
I am with you my wife and I are fat people but we encourage good eating habits with our kids. One thing they always have access to is fresh fruit they are fruit eating monkeys that shun candy and the like.


RE: A little young for soda
By lagomorpha on 8/20/2013 9:00:52 AM , Rating: 2
Fruit is loaded with sugar. A medium apple or banana is around 100 calories, pretty much all sugar. The only thing fruit has over soda or candy is that it has a bit of vitamins and fiber along with all the sugar.

Not to sound too harsh but if you encourage your kids to be fruit eating monkeys they may as well be shoveling down candy with vitamins and fiber supplements. It's not going to keep them thin and healthy.

Vegetables on the other hand are much more filling and nutritious with much fewer calories. One medium apple has more calories than an entire bag of baby carrots provided you can get your kids to eat them without dipping them in ranch.


RE: A little young for soda
By ammaross on 8/20/2013 10:24:34 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
A medium apple or banana is around 100 calories, pretty much all sugar. The only thing fruit has over soda or candy is that it has a bit of vitamins and fiber along with all the sugar.


A mini-size Kit Kat (not even fun-size) is 42 calories. You get a LOT more content per calorie out of a banana.


RE: A little young for soda
By Reclaimer77 on 8/20/2013 11:04:31 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Not to sound too harsh but if you encourage your kids to be fruit eating monkeys they may as well be shoveling down candy with vitamins and fiber supplements. It's not going to keep them thin and healthy.


Are you some kind of idiot?

The heath benefits of fruit have been established LONG ago, maybe you should look them up.

Sure fruits have sugar. Fruits also have essential-

Ah you know what, fuck it. Why am I going to sit here and break down the obvious? If you're stupid enough to think eating fruit could in any way be unhealthy, there's no point.


RE: A little young for soda
By chripuck on 8/20/2013 12:09:56 PM , Rating: 2
Not to mention the obvious "try to get a 3 year old to eat green beans/broccolli etc."

I'm sure he's a model parent and has his kids eating asparagus at lunch...


RE: A little young for soda
By lagomorpha on 8/22/2013 8:38:04 AM , Rating: 2
I didn't mean to imply that you shouldn't ever let your kids eat fruit, but if they're "fruit eating monkeys" don't be surprised when they end up as fat as their parents. It's better than candy certainly but shouldn't be viewed as "it's fruit so they can eat as much as they want".

Also IME it's not that hard to get kids to eat carrots.


RE: A little young for soda
By Ammohunt on 8/20/2013 3:16:30 PM , Rating: 2
The main idea is to cut down on the amount of processed food in our diets not cut calorie count. i believe children that are active (like my kids) should be allowed to consume as many healthy calories as they want and for kids snacking there is nothing better than fruit.

Ultimately my belief is a varied diet coupled with moderation is the key to healthy living; skip the vitamin supplements entirely. Keep in mind i said my wife and i are fat people not unhealthy people.


RE: A little young for soda
By ClownPuncher on 8/20/2013 2:33:16 PM , Rating: 2
Make your own fresh squeezed juice. It tastes 100x better than pasteurized crap and you get all of the nutrition. Plus, a bag of oranges is cheap.


RE: A little young for soda
By Samus on 8/19/2013 5:35:01 PM , Rating: 2
My parents regularly stocked a lot of soda and I grew up drinking it (more so than milk or water) and I've been fighting with various health issues, some linked to HFCS and preservatives, others linked to excess suger intake as an adolescence, but unfortunately many not clinically researched/well understood but theorized to be related to caffeinated or sugary beverage consumption as a child.

Nobody in my family history had these problems until me. Needless to say the only soda beverage I stock in my house for my kids is Ginger Ale, since it at least serves some health benefit when necessary (stomach ache, digestion, etc.)

This society drinks way to much crap. It's a shame our government (NYC) needs to step in to "protect" us when its really just a lapse in education. You don't need a warning on the bottle and a ton of added tax, because sometimes people just want a God damn Pepsi and don't want to pay $5.00 for it. But what people need to realize is this stuff is only safe in moderation. You can't drink it like its water (and even water can be over-consumed)


RE: A little young for soda
By Schrag4 on 8/19/2013 6:34:38 PM , Rating: 2
How old are you? I grew up drinking a fair amount of soda too and at 35 I have no resulting health issues.

I will say, though, that our children are only allowed soda a few times per month. My wife is much more health conscious when it comes to food than my parents ever were. There are times that I don't like it but I believe that in the long run she's doing us all a huge favor.


RE: A little young for soda
By Lord 666 on 8/19/2013 6:40:36 PM , Rating: 2
Same here; from as long as I can remember through 12/13 years old had unlimited access to Pepsi. Around 13 I realized it wasn't good for health and lost about 40 pounds through diet and exercise. After cutting it out, noticed that my body had a difficult time managing blood sugar levels. Not diabetic nor quite exactly hypoglycemic, but would have wide fluctuations even to this day.

Reading this study, I can relate to the so called "violence" and have even shared on DT over the years. First thought it was due to being Irish and genetically a short temper, then maybe parents being divorced, or even being around the wrong crowd, but even after all these years there is something inside me that for the lack of better words is "rage."

Have used it to my advantage personally and professionally, but at times wished it could be cut out. Can even see signs of it in my children and they have only had water and fruit juices. Who knows, but nevertheless an interesting correlation.


RE: A little young for soda
By Schrag4 on 8/20/2013 9:36:06 AM , Rating: 2
quote:

Around 13 I realized it wasn't good for health and lost about 40 pounds through diet and exercise...
Reading this study, I can relate to the so called "violence" and have even shared on DT over the years. First thought it was due to being Irish and genetically a short temper, then maybe parents being divorced, or even being around the wrong crowd, but even after all these years there is something inside me that for the lack of better words is "rage."


I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm pretty sure your rage has to do with A) the divorce of your parents, B) hanging out with the wrong crowd, C) the fact that you were 40 pounds overweight at 13 years old (kids are cruel to each other), and D) all the other hard personal stuff in your life that you haven't shared yet. It's not the sugar. If you really have this rage then you should see someone about it. Serious.


Utterly worthless without a control group
By inperfectdarkness on 8/19/2013 4:54:39 PM , Rating: 2
Diet or regular soft-drinks?
Caffeinated or non-caffeinated?
How does regular Kool-Aid stack up against soft-drinks?
How about sugar-free Kool-Aid (or Mio, etc)?

Here's just a few questions just off the top of my head. There's just too many variables left uncontrolled. Maybe it is the sugar. Maybe it's the caffeine. Maybe it's the carbonation. Maybe it's the quality of the water used. I could go on and on.

Interesting research, but hardly conclusive whatsoever.




RE: Utterly worthless without a control group
By venym76 on 8/19/2013 5:05:18 PM , Rating: 1
Unfortunately Government doesn't care about these things, they want to push an agenda and this fits that agenda. Forget facts, they make sh*t up all the time to fit their goals, like the 300k kids that guns kill a year, no data to back it up, but damn it, it furthers an agenda.


By althaz on 8/19/2013 9:02:23 PM , Rating: 2
Obviously you are a conspiracy theorist (obligatory XKCD: http://xkcd.com/258/), but I don't think anybody has ever claimed that 300 thousand kids are killed in the US every year - however 31,000 people are killed by guns every year in the US. There's no need for anybody to make up any figures regarding gun violence - these figures speak for themselves :).


RE: Utterly worthless without a control group
By Jammrock on 8/19/2013 5:12:03 PM , Rating: 2
Diet soda has recently been found to be even more harmful than regular soda because of the high amounts of artificial sweeteners used. Though some people, mainly Coca-Cola, have argued this is untrue. I'm not a doctor nor a neural scientist so I won't comment further.

As to the article in DailyTech they are pretty clear about it being high caloric intake caused by large amounts of sugar that causes the issue. Somehow I think, or at least hope, the scientist involved in the study were smart enough to control the variables enough to get accurate results.

Furthermore, DailyTech is a news aggregation service, not a scientific journal, so those details are best left to others to cover. If you want answers to those particular questions you'd be better off reading the study itself, or at least a scientific journal peer reviewing the results.


By Dorkyman on 8/19/2013 8:26:34 PM , Rating: 2
I think it would be safe to say that DailyTech readers probably drink far more soda than the average person. So based on this study, you guys are dangerous and should be put away. Or at least looked at very carefully.


K...
By Totally on 8/19/2013 5:47:58 PM , Rating: 2
So their done beating the video game horse and now on to the Sugary drinks horse. In other news...




RE: K...
By tng on 8/20/2013 9:25:42 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
done beating the video game horse
That was my thought...

Although, this all points back to IMO irresponsible parents who are pointing fingers again at anything other than their own parenting skills being responsible for their kids bad behavior.

That also leads to a huge bunch of people who cry out "We need to protect our children!". Some of them actually believe this and the others pile on for the publicity of being child friendly when election time comes around.


Strange conclusions
By spamreader1 on 8/19/2013 5:07:39 PM , Rating: 3
Could it also be extrapolated that some parents who allow younger children to drink soda are in an environment that is more likely to cause violent tendencies? I mean there's tons of stuff on TV that parents let thier kids watch that is violent that others wouldn't. I've been in neighborhodds that add to violent tendency...so it wouldn't have to be the parents fault per se, could just be environmental.

I'm more concerned about the reports that 5-7 year olds are being suspended from school for playing good guy, bad guy games. Re-enacting westerns, or hero roll play, etc. It's a good thing for kids to get a general notion that good wins over evil, and that being good is in fact the right thing to do. Holding up a pencil and pointing it in a gunlike fashion going bang, bang, on a playground should not be cause for suspension.

I allow my kids (even my 2 yr old) to drink non-caffinated soda from time to time, they don't go berzerk or change behavior in anyway that I've ever noticed. I have 4 kids, so one would think that's a large enough sample to observe.

We're not victims of circumstance, we're products of circumstance and how we react to it.




I recall...
By villageidiotintern on 8/19/2013 5:32:24 PM , Rating: 2
...my days as a besot soda user. I cannot count the times I've gone on brutal crime sprees after having one too many sodas.




All together now...
By Schrag4 on 8/19/2013 6:28:09 PM , Rating: 2
...correlation does not equal causation!




study absolutely correct
By Captain Awesome on 8/19/2013 8:46:04 PM , Rating: 2
As a child I would drink five or more cans of coke every day, and two things happened.

1. I got pretty fat.
2. I killed eleven people just to watch them die.




They did overlook something...
By CZroe on 8/19/2013 11:01:10 PM , Rating: 2
They did overlook a greater correlation:
The number of drinks consumed per day inversely correlates with the amount of S**T a parent gives about his/her kids (including diet AND behavior). Parent who don't care about what their kid eats are less likely to care about what their kid does and the kid will be a fat and violent brat with no discipline.




Barriers
By btc909 on 8/20/2013 1:04:50 AM , Rating: 2
I could see the attitude change especially under the age of 10 when she would drink soda. Loud, defiant, complaining, not focused. Children don't have strong mental barriers to begin with and sugar doesn't help.

So I stopped buying soda and knew especially in public outings to have her avoid getting soda as well.




By Maureen at American Beverage Association on 8/21/2013 12:16:36 PM , Rating: 2
This study’s findings are flawed and misleading. Even the authors admit their research ‘is not able to identify the nature of the association between soft drinks and problem behaviors.’ Therefore, it is a leap to suggest that drinking soda causes these or any other behavioral issue. With respect to the age group examined in this study, it’s important to note that our member companies do not promote or market the consumption of soft drinks to this audience.




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