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Android is terminating the competition's sales with its superior products and broader selection.  (Source: PocketNow)

Android (green) is now ahead of Apple and RIM in terms of new phone purchases in the U.S., according to Nielsen.  (Source: Nielsen)

Android's total ownership is also soaring.  (Source: Nielsen)
Android passes the iPhone and Research in Motion in new purchase market share, says Nielsen

If you listen to its naysayers Android is doomed -- its hardware is too heterogeneous, its interface is cluttered, Google is making a mistake giving it away for free, and it's hard to develop for.  Well, those arguments should sound familar -- after all, they were among those leveled against the PC over the years.

And much as the PC (with Microsoft's Windows OS) left IBMs and Apples coughing in the dust in the 1980s, today in the 2010s Google's Android OS is similarly leaving behind Research in Motion and Apple. 

According to the Nielsen Company, Google's U.S. market share has continued to soar, with Android hitting 32 percent of new purchases in August, as Apple's iPhone iOS has dipped to 25 percent and RIM has risen ever-so-slightly to 26 percent.  Just a month prior (in July), the firm showed the various competitors virtually neck-and-neck when it came to new purchases, with Google holding 28 percent, Apple holding 26 percent, and RIM holding 25 percent.

According to Nielsen in terms of complete market share (not just new buyers), Apple has been holding steady, dipping from 26 percent in January 2010 to 25 percent in August.  RIM's Blackberry OS, meanwhile dipped from 36 percent to 31 percent.  But Google soared upwards, more than doubling from 8 percent in January to 19 percent in August.

RIM and Apple seem relatively powerless to stop Google.  RIM has managed to only come up with one significant new smart phone model (the Blackberry Torch), while Apple's only hope seems to lie with its yearly refreshes and waiting for AT&T exclusivity to finally end.  At the end of the day both competitors seem extremely unlikely to be able to muster the kind of challenge needed to reverse Google's course.

When it comes down to it, Microsoft's plodding path to victory on the desktop and Google's steady path to victory on the smart phone are highly analogous.  Both firms ditched the popular closed proprietary hardware environments that dominated the market at their time of entry and both companies put aside a focus on fine-tuning every minutia to try to make a "magical" OS.  In both cases, the OS makers instead focused on putting their product in the hands of lots of hardware partners and offering consumers a broader selection of choices.  And consumers, as it turns out, seem to like choice.

So while the Android naysayers are unlikely to go away for some time, they'll likely be getting frustrated and tired before long, as Android continues to punish the competition.

Of course Apple's fans can take comfort -- much like its battle with Microsoft in the PC market, Apple doesn't need to outsell Google in the smart phone market to be hugely profitable.  Apple's ability to charge premium prices for less than premium hardware means that although the company only has a 2.8 percent current global market share, it makes 39 percent of the profits.  For that reason it seems unlikely that we'll see Apple whither under the beating it's receiving from Google, but it seems equally unlikely that Apple and RIM will be able to prevent Google from establishing itself as the king of the market.


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Thank you to this Man:
By acer905 on 10/5/2010 11:36:39 PM , Rating: 2
http://verydemotivational.com/2010/10/04/demotivat...

However, I do enjoy participating in and watching the sparring sessions with Tony & Pirks, so let the fun commence!

(Side note: Go Android!)




RE: Thank you to this Man:
By Tony Swash on 10/6/10, Rating: -1
RE: Thank you to this Man:
By Tony Swash on 10/6/10, Rating: -1
RE: Thank you to this Man:
By PsychoPif on 10/6/2010 9:35:57 AM , Rating: 5
I blame the biased wall of text.


RE: Thank you to this Man:
By Flunk on 10/6/2010 9:38:24 AM , Rating: 5
You mean comments are not for writing entire articles of nonsensical ranting? That caught me totally by surprise!


RE: Thank you to this Man:
By Gio6518 on 10/6/2010 9:38:58 AM , Rating: 5
Your rated down because your a tool for the Apple propaganda machine. Look at the iDiotic comments like

quote:
Apple is not interested in market share


yeah thats why they spend billions in advertising because they dont want customers. Don't forget about the billions in slanderous claims with the I'm a Mac commercials, like a crooked polition trying to get re-elected.

quote:
Covering your eyes doesn't make the bogey man go away :)


Your the ostrich with its head in the sand.


RE: Thank you to this Man:
By xti on 10/6/10, Rating: -1
RE: Thank you to this Man:
By Tony Swash on 10/6/10, Rating: -1
RE: Thank you to this Man:
By Gio6518 on 10/6/2010 10:25:37 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Don't be foolish - of course Apple is interested in customers, just not market share.


Alright, think about this, every iPhone or iPad that is connected to 3G services, Apple gets a monthly stipend. When they lose market share it effects Apple financially. So yeah in this area, with these devices marketshare would be important to Apple. With Mac's and Macbooks not so much.


RE: Thank you to this Man:
By Tony Swash on 10/6/10, Rating: -1
RE: Thank you to this Man:
By Gio6518 on 10/6/2010 11:35:59 AM , Rating: 2
there you go again, no valid retort, so go you back the the propaganda.

yes they sold alot of iPhone 4's, but thats not the topic, with either the article nor my post.

most sales are current customers with upgrades....

marketshare counts iOS including iPad and iPod, internet capable devices...

despite the inclusion of the millions of iPad's they are continuing to lose marketshare....

my post said...

quote:
Alright, think about this, every iPhone or iPad that is connected to 3G services, Apple gets a monthly stipend. When they lose market share it effects Apple financially.


here in the U.S. Apple gets $30 a month per contract with an iPhone....

now if they lose 1,000 customers, they lose $30,000.00 monthly....

so yeah marketshare is important, and its important to Apple...

Patiently awainting Apple propaganda, or Steve Jobs trying to stay face quote...


RE: Thank you to this Man:
By Tony Swash on 10/6/10, Rating: -1
RE: Thank you to this Man:
By spread on 10/6/2010 4:51:59 PM , Rating: 1
Market share IS customers in this case. One iPhone is one customer, unless you're an Apple fanatic.

quote:
Market share refers to a brand's share of the total sales of all products within the product category in which the brand competes.
- The Dictionary

The rest is a wall of drivel. If you want, I can recommend you some economics books and then we can have a discussion after you learn something.


RE: Thank you to this Man:
By Pirks on 10/6/10, Rating: -1
RE: Thank you to this Man:
By The Raven on 10/7/2010 11:10:14 AM , Rating: 2
I agree that it's possible to get additional customers and shrinking market share at the same time due to a change in market size (call me crazy but people like having babies).

So what's that got to do with Tony's flawed thinking: 'advertising =/= desire for market share' but 'advertising = desire for more customers'?

Tony said:
quote:
Apple is not interested in market share

To which Gio responded:
quote:
yeah thats why they spend billions in advertising because they dont want customers. Don't forget about the billions in slanderous claims with the I'm a Mac commercials, like a crooked polition trying to get re-elected.

Tony again:
quote:
Don't be foolish - of course Apple is interested in customers, just not market share.

But he doesn't mention that even if you just want to maintain your market share, you have to persuade people to become customers. I mean you can't just put the brakes on and say, "Yeah I think we have enough marketshare." It is always changing and if your are not trying to increase it then you should plan on it decreasing.


RE: Thank you to this Man:
By xpax on 10/6/2010 5:40:24 PM , Rating: 4
Actually, market share does trump other metrics -- from an angle you apparently have not considered.

If Apple/RIM have 10% of the smartphone market each, and Android comprises the remaining 80% -- who do you think developers are going to target?

If the App Store consists of nothing but years-old abandonware and the phone itself is ludicrously overpriced, is the iPhone going to be that compelling? (Excluding the weak-minded Apple zealots, of course.)

I absolutely believe that in the long term, Apple will end up being marginalized by Android. Unfortunately, Apple is hell-bent on repeating the same mistakes it made in the early 80's that led to it's fall from grace. Before the Mac, in the Apple II days, Apple was the market leader in personal computers -- but it failed to take advantage of it's position. It rabidly went after clone manufacturers, refused to license it's OS, etc. The result was dozens of PC manufacturers producing cheap machines with Microsoft's operating systems because Apple blindly refused to provide competition.

Jobs seems completely oblivious to the fact that history is repeating itself.


RE: Thank you to this Man:
By Pirks on 10/6/10, Rating: 0
RE: Thank you to this Man:
By The Raven on 10/7/2010 10:52:56 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
If a uniform Apple platform has 20% of the smartphone market each, and 8 smaller Android platforms fragmented by 8 different manufacturers comprise the remaining 80% -- who do you think developers are going to target?

See Tony! Pirks gets it now. Why don't you?!
The iPhone's crown jewel, the app store, will not be developed for anymore because developers will benefit from an economy of scale with the 80% market share that Android will offer. The Apple app store will slowly loose its broad appeal as most of the 'hot' apps are developed for the market leader.

quote:
"All the power and your LOVELIEEE _MARKET_ _SHARE_ to you Android people AS LONG AS WE KEEP 40% of the industry profits in our pocket har har har" - says SJ :P

Wait a second... wha...?


RE: Thank you to this Man:
By ninjaquick on 10/7/2010 6:25:38 PM , Rating: 2
Not in a matter of profitability. Market share is quintessential for high volume low cost profitability, however, to the same and inverse degree, high cost low volume can maintain the same levels of profit. Market share is a metric of variable relevance.
As evidence you may chose to observe the annual income of apple pre- and post iPhone sales. It is true that the iPhone sells to an extremely large user-base, but the actual return indicates a high profit low volume design, at least when it was originally sold. When the low volume high margin model suddenly became a high volume high margin phenomenon apple realized it struck gold. Yes, market share is very important however there is a point where saturation becomes super saturation. Apple is a company that by nature caters to near nil saturation, with the current level of saturation the business model of low high becomes unsustainable.
The problem with high margin sales is the free market.
Honestly, there is a reason Steve is building a small house. If you sell a commodity at a very high profit margin (read inflated pricing) and another similar commodity becomes available at a lower profit margin but higher volume, then your market share will normalize and recede. Apple knows this which is why they have, despite their massive growth, not changed their model from an assumed low volume high profit model. What I intend to get at with this is that if iphones became passé apple will only lose overhead, but they will not lose overall profit. They do not depend on market share.

Microsoft is an example low cost high volume market model. They ship overwhelming amounts of software and software packages. If they were to lose 15 or 20% of their current market share they would hit negative profits, and this would occur as a direct effect of their model being large volume. They make very [relative] little money off each sale but have designed an infrastructure to cope with the demand. The problem is their infrastructure depends on demand.

Apple is not expected to ship variety or quantity, so they can achieve profitability with less investment.

Thusly, market share is important, but not the most important. An event is the product of infinite variables, and the current event is success and one of it's many variables is market share. Eliminate market share and success can still exist, only to a lesser degree.


RE: Thank you to this Man:
By The Raven on 10/7/2010 11:03:56 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
People seem to be harbouring some weird fantasy where the rise of Microsoft is going to knock the wind out of Apple, render its business much less profitable, make Apple decline and push it back into a marginal corner. Does anybody seriously believe that that is what is going to happen?

Fixed it for you.


RE: Thank you to this Man:
By ninjaquick on 10/7/2010 6:41:15 PM , Rating: 2
Umm, yes, he made a point. You said it is all about market share. I wrote a wall of text regarding business models and market share.
Tony mentions Nokia, the single largest cell-phone manufacturer ever. They somehow stay profitable, while apple with a fraction of the user base can boast multi billion dollar month over month profits.

Tony's point is: Market share assumes full market dominance. Target market dominance is very different. Apple's target market is what seems like human sheep hybrids, and these creatures have very deep pockets full of a substance they are deathly allergic to called money.

Now, I realize that he is siding with the fruit, however his reasoning is sound.

The fact is apple is going to lose consumer base until they depend entirely on repurchases as they do with apple computers.


RE: Thank you to this Man:
By acer905 on 10/6/10, Rating: 0
RE: Thank you to this Man:
By Pirks on 10/6/10, Rating: -1
RE: Thank you to this Man:
By pg55555 on 10/7/2010 12:31:26 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Ultimately this is where i disapprove with Apple. Limited freedom is a touchy subject, and Apple has shown time and time again that they want to limit the freedom of their users. Anything that finds a way of giving freedom to the i-customers Apple denounces, blocks, or eliminates. No matter what value, perceived or otherwise, that an iOS device has, eventually the customers will want choice, which Apple cannot offer.


You are in your right to disapprove, but this is Apple's way of keeping profit margins, as so its customers are tied to is Apple store.
And most customers do not care as long as they get the apps they need / want.
Once you move past the one million customers mark, you are not longer talking of the tech savy crew, you are talking to the masses which are more concerned about easy of use and coolness, the very factor where Apple excells


RE: Thank you to this Man:
By Targon on 10/8/2010 8:42:14 AM , Rating: 2
This is the flaw that Apple has been hit with, again and again. Once Apple comes out with a great idea that is well ahead of the competition, it sits back and lets the competition catch up and then beat it. This is why Android is gaining market share, because people see that there is a competing platform that does pretty much everything the iPhone can do, but doesn't lock in their customers.

So, how can the iPhone be seen as better when the other devices on the market can do the same stuff and works pretty much the same way? Is Apple doing things to make the iPhone easier to use? The only thing they might add would be voice commands instead of touching the screen, and THAT is something that would be very prone to problems(noisy environments, or language issues/voice recognition).

The big thing is that you have the advertising for the iPhone, you have Verizon pushing the Droid brand name, and the Blackberry Torch(a Palm Pre clone with a worse OS). Notice that Apple is not really pushing their phones, because in June the iPhone 4G will be released.


RE: Thank you to this Man:
By The Raven on 10/6/2010 11:43:59 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Don't be foolish - of course Apple is interested in customers, just not market share.


Call me foolish, but isn't market share comprised of customers? It is. But Apple is only interested in the customers who can afford to overpay for their products.

quote:
Apple is broadly focused on the high-end, non-licensed, limited market share, high value added, premium market. And that's where Apple stays focussed, it doesn't drift down market, its doesn't chase volume even when that might mean higher profits.

Oh thanks for clearing this issue up. Now if you could just tell the guys in the iPod department. Because we all know that the Shuffle is just as good as the Nano.

Also, tell the guy who sells all the crappy computers to the schools I've attended.

And don't forget the iPad. But it is too early for that one. Just tell them to watch out for the big bad market share boogeyman.

And "broadly focused?" What does that mean?


RE: Thank you to this Man:
By The Raven on 10/6/2010 12:37:23 PM , Rating: 2
RE: Thank you to this Man:
By Tony Swash on 10/6/10, Rating: -1
RE: Thank you to this Man:
By chrish89 on 10/6/2010 4:11:06 PM , Rating: 2
This is not the place to post facts...you will only be down rated.


RE: Thank you to this Man:
By The Raven on 10/6/2010 4:19:04 PM , Rating: 2
Tony. Really? You skip over everything else and go after this? Is Apple profitable? Wow, that is a hard question. My 3 y/o could answer that. And it has been said over and over that one reason they have the profits is because they overcharge for their products and get people to believe that they are worth it. (And maybe they are to some people BTW, but not for most people)

That story about HTC pops up just as you crapped on everyone's 'razor thin' margins. That's why I mentioned it. I'm not claiming that Apple is a lost cause. Who said that? But my point now is that Asymco's data might look slightly different in the future due to coming stories like this HTC one.


RE: Thank you to this Man:
By pg55555 on 10/7/2010 12:52:25 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Tony. Really? You skip over everything else and go after this? Is Apple profitable? Wow, that is a hard question. My 3 y/o could answer that. And it has been said over and over that one reason they have the profits is because they overcharge for their products and get people to believe that they are worth it. (And maybe they are to some people BTW, but not for most people)


Apple is able to charge premium prices because the consumers perceive they are getting a superior product, maybe no technically (the only thing you seems to care about) but from the full ownership experience
All Customer Satisfaction polls (that allways rate Apple high) are showing those customers very satisfied with their Apple products

I can understand that readers of a site as DailyTech focus only in the technical side of the products, but they must understand that there is more to market a successful produt

And Apple has been very successful, which proves its strategy has been right.

Will this same strategy serve Apple for the future? this is the big question.

From my point of view, if Apple is able to continue innovating and delivering products people want, this straegy will serve them well


RE: Thank you to this Man:
By Reclaimer77 on 10/6/2010 1:00:09 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Don't be foolish - of course Apple is interested in customers, just not market share.


Does this statement make sense to ANYONE?


RE: Thank you to this Man:
By Pirks on 10/6/2010 1:02:08 PM , Rating: 1
It totally makes sense when you add "rich" before "customers"


RE: Thank you to this Man:
By torpor on 10/6/2010 3:29:16 PM , Rating: 2
Pirks deserves a +6 on this one.

Seriously, mod that one up. Apple is tech bling, we all know it and can agree on it.


RE: Thank you to this Man:
By Tony Swash on 10/6/10, Rating: -1
RE: Thank you to this Man:
By Reclaimer77 on 10/6/2010 3:03:29 PM , Rating: 1
No Tony, let's try you getting another -1. Enjoy.


RE: Thank you to this Man:
By Pirks on 10/6/2010 3:12:44 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
No Tony, let's try you getting another DT honor badge
that's more like it :)))


RE: Thank you to this Man:
By Iaiken on 10/6/2010 3:17:39 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
More hipsters with no sense of value for it's overpriced products, not bigger market share.


Bingo!

Why take members of my department for numerous $10 rides when you can take a witless cock for a single $500 ride...


RE: Thank you to this Man:
By Pirks on 10/6/2010 3:36:05 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
no sense of value
Define "value" please.


RE: Thank you to this Man:
By spread on 10/6/2010 4:57:13 PM , Rating: 2
We need a -2 rating feature.


RE: Thank you to this Man:
By Pirks on 10/6/10, Rating: -1
RE: Thank you to this Man:
By torpor on 10/6/10, Rating: 0
RE: Thank you to this Man:
By Tony Swash on 10/6/10, Rating: -1
RE: Thank you to this Man:
By The Raven on 10/6/2010 11:31:45 AM , Rating: 1
I'm sorry Tony, but I don't have time to type a complete response to this. I disagree on so many points (as it seems many others do) that it is not even funny.

But let me just say this:
Unless the world's population starts yearning to be controlled by companies like Apple, Microsoft, or even Google let me just say that whichever OS is the most free will rule the roost here eventually.

Also, the article is about OSs. Not value chains. If you want to have that discussion, it should be taken elsewhere (to get slammed).


RE: Thank you to this Man:
By Pirks on 10/6/10, Rating: -1
RE: Thank you to this Man:
By acer905 on 10/6/2010 11:58:29 AM , Rating: 2
Android, and for that matter, Chrome OS, IS Linux, so yeah it will rule.


RE: Thank you to this Man:
By The Raven on 10/6/2010 12:09:07 PM , Rating: 2
It doesn't have to be Linux. Who said that?

I'm just stating a principle.
The iPhone was the most open smartphone when it came out and it thrived (think easily developed for and accesable app store). Now that Andriod is in the mix, and is even more open it will dominate.


RE: Thank you to this Man:
By Pirks on 10/6/2010 12:41:39 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Who said that?
YOU said that. You said "whichever OS is the most free " which obviously means Linux, doesn't it?


RE: Thank you to this Man:
By The Raven on 10/6/2010 3:48:51 PM , Rating: 2
Go to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_operati...
Look at the cyan colored ones. There is more out there than Linux. And if Apple were to make an open OS then they would have a shot at the dominant OS too. Somewhere Steve Jobs 'just laugh and turn his head to one side.'


RE: Thank you to this Man:
By pg55555 on 10/7/2010 12:04:53 PM , Rating: 1
I agree almost 90% on Tony Swash analysis of smartphones market dynamics and Apple strategy

I disagree with the "Apple is not interested in market share" absolute statement.

Of course Apple is interested in market share, just not a any cost and it is not its main objective


RE: Thank you to this Man:
By ninjaquick on 10/7/2010 6:43:47 PM , Rating: 1
Android market has tricorder. Done. Case closed, android app store: >9000 apple: ballz


RE: Thank you to this Man:
By chrish89 on 10/6/2010 11:01:57 AM , Rating: 1
I triple guarantee you, there are no iPhones being sold. Apple is achieving nothing; they are suffering from casualties. Those casualties are increasing, not decreasing. Let the Apple infidels bask in their illusion. Android is winning!

-Android Information Minister


challenging a quote
By 229mike on 10/6/10, Rating: 0
RE: challenging a quote
By zmatt on 10/6/2010 12:57:08 AM , Rating: 3
actually The Galaxy S phones are quite a bit faster than the iPhone. The powerVR SGX 540 is a big step up from the 535. And at least where I live, they can be had for less. And the silicon in side isn't the only thing that falls under "hardware" every physical part is. And generally speaking the build quality and reliability of Apple products isn't as good as other brands. iPhones are known to over heat and I know many people who have broken theirs from normal usage.


RE: challenging a quote
By Samus on 10/6/2010 1:16:32 AM , Rating: 2
I wasn't completely sure that was the governator, but the ring gave it away. That man is ridiculous :)


RE: challenging a quote
By MikeMurphy on 10/6/2010 1:36:22 AM , Rating: 3
It was only months ago when the 3GS sporting somewhat out-of-date hardware was still selling for big bucks, when phones sporting much superior hardware were selling for less.

Its silly to say they don't mark up their phones in a big way. Same thing goes for their computers.

Like 'em or hate 'em, they do well in selling their platform.


RE: challenging a quote
By Pirks on 10/6/2010 10:32:33 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
the build quality and reliability of Apple products isn't as good as other brands
Prooflink?
quote:
iPhones are known to over heat and I know many people who have broken theirs from normal usage
I know many people who broke their PCs from normal usage, so what?
quote:
Galaxy S phones are quite a bit faster than the iPhone
What's the point in better hardware if it's loaded with crap software that can't even animate GUI in a smooth way without jerkiness?


RE: challenging a quote
By The Raven on 10/6/2010 12:14:51 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
quote: "iPhones are known to over heat and I know many people who have broken theirs from normal usage."

I know many people who broke their PCs from normal usage, so what?


So you agree that Apple hardware is not necessarily better than others? Good. I think that was his point.

quote:
What's the point in better hardware if it's loaded with crap software that can't even animate GUI in a smooth way without jerkiness?

Prooflink?


RE: challenging a quote
By Pirks on 10/6/10, Rating: -1
RE: challenging a quote
By robinthakur on 10/6/2010 12:53:59 PM , Rating: 2
It must be harder to optimise Android for all the different hardware permutations, so give HTC, Motorola, Samsung et al a break. Some people can live with the slight jerkiness, although I am not one of them.

This lack of fluidity is actually why I stuck with IP4 this year, can't stand jerkiness even occasional. That and the fragmented hardware on all droid handsets making upgrading to Froyo a right hassle, leaving you dependant on the manufacturers. If they all shipped with virgin Android 2.2 I would have been more tempted (with the exception of the Appstore which is peerless on iPhone notwithstanding Google's great Android exclusives) That, and the Android phones I've played with so far including the Galaxy S, Desire and Droid 2 have cheap build quality and design compared to the IP4, not to mention the appalling battery life. Lastly the icons and home screens remind me of all the cheap 'iPhone-killer' knock-offs which seemed to flood the market after 2007 from LG and the rest, and just doesn't seem to have the 'polish' of iOS, but I concede this is a matter of taste to an extent. Android is more popular in America, so perhaps it's designed for American tastes ;)

Perhaps things might be different for my next upgrade, but I will always judge handsets on their own merit, from the point of view of my own needs and buy the best, regardless of manufacturer or brand loyalty.


RE: challenging a quote
By The Raven on 10/6/2010 4:05:43 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Tapping on the up arrow to launch the applications list no longer results in an instantaneous presentation of applications. Instead, there’s a sporadically low FPS, choppy 1 second fade animation.

So he's saying it was instantaneous on the Droid 1 (I'm guessing). Then in the other article:
quote:
The one thing all Android phones I’ve laid my hands on have in common is varying degrees of a choppy UI. Some are worse than others but they all exhibited it. The choppiness is really apparent when compared to the iPhone.

So I'm not sure where these guys stand. Like is it not noticeable if you aren't holding an iPhone right next to it? I'm not sure how they're measuring that. I have never used an iPhone right after using an Android based device so I'm not sure, but if I did I think I would notice the lag based on what these guys are saying. But since I don't own a smartphone (or an iPhone for that matter ;-), I can't tell any noticeable difference. And I have used various models that my friends have/had.

But I think we might be able to agree that when compared to the iPhone, Android devices might have a reletively choppy interface. But then again, maybe that is because it is running a video wallpaper ;-)

quote:
"you agree that Apple hardware is not necessarily better than others?" No, I don't agree. Common industry quality issues are just a SMALL PART of the big picture.

You crapped on his point about faulty Apple products and then backtrack? I give up.

quote:
You like choppy f**k instead of a smooth ride? Welcome to the Android Jerky World then :P Pay attention how crap software makes your "better than iPhone" hardware look stupid, haha.

This is exactly what Mac owners said about Windows and IBM clones. But then when they could get all the best peripherals and apps working (oft times even with some effort) they chose Windows because it was more capable (more open). Smoothness had little to do with it. I am one who would take some chop to do more than I can with an iPhone buying overpriced hardware and overpriced apps.


RE: challenging a quote
By Pirks on 10/6/2010 4:14:35 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You crapped on his point about faulty Apple products and then backtrack?
No, it's you who crapped on my point about common industry wide hardware failures being irrelevant and now trying to backtrack. Whatever.
quote:
I am one who would take some chop to do more than I can with an iPhone
A normal point of view for a techie but most consumers are not techies, and hence have different priorities, so...


RE: challenging a quote
By The Raven on 10/6/2010 4:42:03 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
No, it's you who crapped on my point about common industry wide hardware failures being irrelevant and now trying to backtrack. Whatever.

He said:
quote:
And generally speaking the build quality and reliability of Apple products isn't as good as other brands. iPhones are known to over heat and I know many people who have broken theirs from normal usage.

You then ask for proof providing none of your own and then try to show it with an anecdotal evidence that is every bit as unpersuasive as Matt's, implying that "Apple hardware is not necessarily better than others" as I said. Though I conceed that I did miss his point a bit. But I was in the right direction.

If I am incorrect, then you are saying that Apple hardware is superior.

In which case we will need a prooflink.


RE: challenging a quote
By Pirks on 10/6/2010 4:54:18 PM , Rating: 2
Here's your prooflink: http://businesscenter.jdpower.com/news/pressreleas...

"For a fourth consecutive time, Apple ranks highest in customer satisfaction among manufacturers of smartphones with a score of 800 on a 1,000-point scale, and performs particularly well in ease of operation, operating system, features and physical design"


RE: challenging a quote
By The Raven on 10/6/2010 5:58:55 PM , Rating: 2
This is subjective to the extent that the opinions are of people who overpaid for their devices. Why would someone want to admit they were stupid for drinking the koolaid that Jobs dishes up? So this is not proof. How about a link showing how CR gave the iPhone 4 a do not buy rating? http://blogs.consumerreports.org/electronics/2010/...

But with that said, I'd agree that this JDP article does say good things about Apple. But among those exceptional attributes listed, "ease of operation, operating system, features and physical design." I'm not seeing hardware or software reliability.

And besides, Apple scored 1% better than 2nd place Motorola and 2% better than HTC. Wow they are so much better! This proves nothing. It is the voices in your head that are telling you that Apple is inherently superior somehow.


RE: challenging a quote
By Pirks on 10/6/2010 6:24:20 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
This is subjective to the extent that the opinions are of people who overpaid for their devices
Yea, next thing you say is that cheapo goods are actually better because they cost less, used cars are better than new cars and so on. And when I ask why owners of the new expensive cars are more satisfied than the owners of the old rusty cheapo cars you will start singing the same song about rich people being duped into buying overpriced new car crap, after all who'd buy an OVERPRICED new car when you can get NOT OVERPRICED used rusty beater for MUCH LESS, right? At this point I guess we have nothing to discuss further.
quote:
I'm not seeing hardware or software reliability
Nice try at switching the subject, you started with "why hardware is better" and now you suddenly singing about "software reliablity" and stuff. Who knows what you gonna sing next.


RE: challenging a quote
By The Raven on 10/7/2010 9:54:46 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
This is subjective to the extent that the opinions are of people who overpaid for their devices

I'm just pointing out that it is a consumer opinion poll. Do you not agree that a majority of Apple users have a stronger brand loyalty than most other smartphone makers? And if that is the case, I am saying that the numbers would be A BIT (no, I'm not saying it is everything) skewed since this is a study regarding customer satisfaction.

Then couple that with the fact that Apple did only 1%-2% better than the competition, I am saying that this article proves that it is a wash at best.

quote:
Nice try at switching the subject, you started with "why hardware is better" and now you suddenly singing about "software reliablity" and stuff. Who knows what you gonna sing next.


quote:
I'm not seeing hardware or software reliability

Let me say that again... HARDWARE.....OR...


RE: challenging a quote
By Pirks on 10/6/2010 6:27:44 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
This is subjective to the extent that the opinions are of people who overpaid for their devices
Yea, next thing you say is that cheapo goods are actually better because they cost less, used cars are better than new cars and so on. And when I ask why owners of the new expensive cars are more satisfied than the owners of the old rusty cheapo cars you will start singing the same song about rich people being duped into buying overpriced new car crap, after all who'd buy an OVERPRICED new car when you can get NOT OVERPRICED used rusty beater for MUCH LESS, right? At this point I guess we have nothing to discuss further.
quote:
I'm not seeing hardware or software reliability
Nice try at switching the subject, you started with "why hardware is better" and now you suddenly singing about "software reliability" and stuff. Who knows what you gonna sing next.


RE: challenging a quote
By xpax on 10/6/2010 5:50:23 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
A normal point of view for a techie but most consumers are not techies, and hence have different priorities, so...

Oh Pirks, you make me wish I had infinite votes to apply to you and your insane ramblings.

What the graphs above illustrate is: you're wrong. People want choice and they want value. I know many non-techies who despise Apple and wouldn't buy an iPhone if it was the only phone available.

Do you honestly think that the numbers above are solely the result of techies buying Android phones? No. They're smart, informed consumers who are tired of pointlessly padding Apple's bottom line so they can have more flexibility and choice stripped away from them. They're tired of being told stupid, absurd things like "you're holding it wrong."


RE: challenging a quote
By Pirks on 10/6/2010 6:11:07 PM , Rating: 2
What graphs and numbers are you talking about? The post you replied to has neither.


Impressive but hardly worrisome for Apple
By morphologia on 10/6/2010 3:10:27 PM , Rating: 1
Apple will always be OK, so long as there are affluent, ditzy fashion slaves addicted to their brand.

To clarify, it's not Apple's success that makes me hate them, it's the attitude. It's that charming blend of smarm and arrogance, the same blend that is just so admirable in people like Iran's Ahmadinejad and various celebrity lawyers. And all the Appletards who won't stap repeating the exaggerated, sometimes outright false pro-Apple propaganda...they don't help.




By xpax on 10/6/2010 5:23:30 PM , Rating: 2
+++. Very nice.


RE: Impressive but hardly worrisome for Apple
By chrish89 on 10/6/10, Rating: 0
RE: Impressive but hardly worrisome for Apple
By TEAMSWITCHER on 10/7/2010 10:50:03 PM , Rating: 1
Your the delusional one. Apple is making great products and you know it...all...too...well. That is why we must endure your hateful post. Once the iPhone comes to Verizon, Android shipments will cut in half, or worse.

And Microsoft doesn't stand a chance with AT&T as it's only launch partner. No one is gonna walk out of an AT&T store with a Win7 phone, when they can get the awesome iPhone 4 for the same cash.


RE: Impressive but hardly worrisome for Apple
By Cheesew1z69 on 10/8/2010 8:31:06 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Once the iPhone comes to Verizon, Android shipments will cut in half, or worse.
No, no they won't.....


By TEAMSWITCHER on 10/8/2010 10:30:43 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, yes they will.....


And the biggest loser...
By donjuancarlos on 10/6/2010 8:01:26 AM , Rating: 3
... is Microsoft.

In the not too distant future, smartphones will be able to effortlessly perform most computing functions required by a majority of the population. I can imagine, in the not too distant future (10-15 years) a smartphone with good speech recognition that does pretty much everything I want it to do. And if I need more screen, I'll just pull out my rolled up 17" OLED screen, unroll it, and wirelessly connect it to my smartphone.

And what OS will be on it?




RE: And the biggest loser...
By Taft12 on 10/6/2010 10:17:40 AM , Rating: 2
The future is now - smartphones ALREADY have the capability to do most computing functions the vast majority of the public needs. The wireless connection to your monitor/keyboard/mouse is the final piece of the puzzle.

And you're right, MS is not a part of this future.


RE: And the biggest loser...
By robinthakur on 10/6/2010 12:35:55 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed that the worst thing MS can be guilty of here is complete irrelevance, which is what they currently are, sad to say. It's going to be an upward struggle to get WP7 adopted in the current competitive marketplace vs Android (iOS is not their competition). Sad that they squandered the advantage they once had with Wimo before the iPhone came out back in 2007.

In point of fact I rarely use my home pc any more preferring couch browsing on the iPad or just use my IP4 for the rest. The only place I use a pc is at work, so MS should probably concentrate on not losing that (unlikely, due to their goodly level of support but then nobody saw Android coming either...)


When you can't win, sue
By sprockkets on 10/5/2010 11:53:23 PM , Rating: 2
Surprised this hasn't been reported here:

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2010/10/micr...

"Hey Google, welcome to our world! Don't let the door hit you on the way out, and, GFY!"




RE: When you can't win, sue
By Tony Swash on 10/6/10, Rating: -1
RE: When you can't win, sue
By solarrocker on 10/6/2010 10:43:25 AM , Rating: 2
Wow, Nokia sure like to sue, so does Kodak. Interesting wonder what Kodak is suing over. Google time.


RE: When you can't win, sue
By solarrocker on 10/6/2010 11:07:11 AM , Rating: 2
http://www.gomonews.com/kodaks-sue-everyone-plan-s...

In case anybody interested why Kodak is suing basically every phone maker out there.


RE: When you can't win, sue
By Tony Swash on 10/7/2010 3:00:58 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Here are a couple of useful graphics showing who is suing who in the mobile world.

Looks like the lawyers win.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/oct/04/m...

http://news.designlanguage.com/post/1252039209


That's great - I post a simple comment pointing people to a couple of information sources they might find interesting and I get rated down.

You guys are really, really scared aren't you :)


Graph Fail
By akugami on 10/6/2010 10:10:04 AM , Rating: 3
The same graphs were used in a thread in Anandtech forums. Look at the numbers. Look at the right side of the graph. RIM's 26% is less than the iPhones 25%?!?!?




Ratings
By burnstagger on 10/6/2010 5:56:35 PM , Rating: 3
Everyone here does realize that Neilsen was taken over by India, Inc. right?

http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/article81837...

Of course they are trying to sabotage Apple - Apple won't lay off all its American staff and replace them with Indians. In fact, Apple CLOSED their R&D in India in 2006. So, this report can't be trusted because Neilsen is no longer objective.

Besides, the iPad is fast eclipsing Android in the tablet market.




as expected
By EnzoFX on 10/5/2010 11:51:44 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed, Apple isn't trying to out-sell all Android manufacturers put together. Otherwise they'd offer their phones for cheap as most Android phones are. Though they probably couldn't even pump that many out either.




Another stupid sensationalist headline
By rcc on 10/7/2010 5:54:30 PM , Rating: 2
Perhaps if RIM and Apple get below a few % each you could call it terminating. In this case it's so inaccurate as to be embarrassing to the writer, or should be.




Dream on
By macthemechanic on 10/7/2010 10:36:48 PM , Rating: 2
Most users won't want to deal with the complexities and varied choices with an open solution. They'll always go back to easy. Just watch.




Good!
By masamasa on 10/8/2010 12:08:17 PM , Rating: 2
Nice to see!




=D
By rburnham on 10/11/2010 7:23:46 PM , Rating: 2
Love the Arnie smile.




Err?
By Ghost42 on 10/6/2010 12:21:56 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
with Android hitting 32 percent of new purchases in August, as Apple's iPhone iOS has dipped to 25 percent and RIM has dropped to 26 percent. Just a month prior (in July), the firm showed the various competitors virtually neck-and-neck when it came to new purchases, with Google holding 28 percent, Apple holding 26 percent, and RIM holding 25 percent.


So RIM has dropped "-1%" ? Good for them and good for Google, Down with Apple! Since 25% - -1% = 26%..




premium prices?
By PAULORC on 10/8/2010 4:05:12 PM , Rating: 1
"Apple's ability to charge premium prices for less than premium hardware..."
MANY SOURCES SUGGEST THAT IT COST 188 DOLLARS TO MAKE A IPHONE 4 NOT INCLUDING LABOR. MOST CUSTOMERS PAY 199 DOLLARS WITH A TWO YEAR CONTRACT. CALL ME CRAZY BUT I DONT CONSIDER A 11 DOLLAR MARKUP TO THE CUSTOMER "PREMIUM PRICES".




Why Does ALL-Apple Comments gets Voted Down?
By MDGeek on 10/6/10, Rating: -1
RE: Why Does ALL-Apple Comments gets Voted Down?
By acer905 on 10/6/2010 12:23:38 PM , Rating: 2
Perhaps it is the attitude that the generic "pro-Apple" poster has in their comments, such as "Apple is the Almighty one," or "I am instantly better than you because i use Apple," or "Apple is da shiz-nit, yo!"

Either way, its simply that the general public on this forum dislikes the business practices of Apple, and therefore dislikes the people who avidly support Apple. Perhaps you should do an experiment, and create non-biased, reasonable, pro-Apple postings and see what happens


RE: Why Does ALL-Apple Comments gets Voted Down?
By Pirks on 10/6/2010 12:36:39 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Perhaps you should do an experiment, and create non-biased, reasonable, pro-Apple postings and see what happens
-1 happens in such cases, why even test it? Just watch mine and Tony's posts rating as a proof.


RE: Why Does ALL-Apple Comments gets Voted Down?
By acer905 on 10/6/2010 12:49:44 PM , Rating: 2
I said "non-biased" and "reasonable"

Thus far neither of you have presented a posting that matches those criteria


RE: Why Does ALL-Apple Comments gets Voted Down?
By Pirks on 10/6/2010 12:54:55 PM , Rating: 2
That's only true from a point of view of a PC fanatic. From a point of view of a normal non-fanatical person we have totally reasonable posts.


RE: Why Does ALL-Apple Comments gets Voted Down?
By acer905 on 10/6/2010 1:12:21 PM , Rating: 2
Try it, give us a simple, rational post stating why Apple is a worthwhile company, providing worthwhile products.


RE: Why Does ALL-Apple Comments gets Voted Down?
By Pirks on 10/6/2010 1:16:22 PM , Rating: 2
Very easy thing to do :))) Apple is worthwhile because people like its products, and they like them because of their simplicity and user friendliness AKA excellent user interface.


RE: Why Does ALL-Apple Comments gets Voted Down?
By acer905 on 10/6/2010 1:34:21 PM , Rating: 2
Seems fairly simple and rational, without bias. SO far, 20 min and no rate down. See? it can happen


RE: Why Does ALL-Apple Comments gets Voted Down?
By Pirks on 10/6/2010 1:44:02 PM , Rating: 2
One example of one late-downrate post means nothing, I have tons of similar posts that immediately get -1, so what?


By frobizzle on 10/7/2010 11:30:33 AM , Rating: 2
Noise to signal ratio, Sparky. Your noise - meaning inane, blathering posts, outweigh anything productive you may rarely enter.

And since you previously stated that you wear the -1 rating as a proud badge, many here are happy to help you achieve your goal.


By W00dmann on 10/6/2010 5:03:13 PM , Rating: 2
Hi MDGeek,

The reason is patently obvious - this site is frequented by technology enthusiasts, and Apple is anathema to technology enthusiasts. That combined with Jason Mick's flaming bias, which reveals itself in each and every story he generates, fans the flames of his eager minions.

I have never in my life seen "reporting" as one-sided and juvenile as Jason Mick's. He breaks every single tenet of responsible journalism, and wastes no opportunity in drafting hateful, smarmy, rabidly anti-Apple dribblings. Screaming headlines, skewed facts, cherry-picked statistics, and outright lies permeate his fecal offerings.

Jason my lad, you are the equivalent of a wh*re trading integrity for page clicks. There is no "news" to be had here. I shall do my best to avoid this site in future; no point in reading fiction, and I don't need my page clicks supporting Jason Mick's sad lifestyle.

Jason: I truly, truly pity you.


RE: Why Does ALL-Apple Comments gets Voted Down?
By xpax on 10/6/2010 5:16:48 PM , Rating: 2
Well, I can say that personally, I downrank any comment which appears to have extreme bias towards Apple. Given the well-known fact that Apple products are substandard and overpriced, I can only assume these people are paid shills and really shouldn't have their posts be visible to those who are unaware of these facts.


By Pirks on 10/6/2010 5:22:56 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Given the well-known fact that PC zealots consider Apple products substandard and overpriced
amen brother


By xkrakenx on 10/7/2010 1:24:49 PM , Rating: 2
tony swish gets rated down because he is a wall-o-text trollish douche and deserves none of our attention.


By TEAMSWITCHER on 10/7/2010 11:00:44 PM , Rating: 2
Did you see the October 2010 report from the American Consumer Satisfaction Index (google ACSI). This year Apple scored a record high of 86! That pulled up the average score to 78, and the highest score a PC manufacturer got was 77.

This is irrefutable, statistical evidence that all PC's suck!


"My sex life is pretty good" -- Steve Jobs' random musings during the 2010 D8 conference














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