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Ballmer throws Apple a bone

After the launch of Apple's iPhone in 2007, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer famously dismissed the threat that the smartphone could have on the market or its impact on Microsoft's then popular Windows Mobile operating system.

"There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance," remarked Ballmer in a 2007 interview with USA Today. "It's a $500 subsidized item. They may make a lot of money. But if you actually take a look at the 1.3 billion phones that get sold, I'd prefer to have our software in 60% or 70% or 80% of them, than I would to have 2% or 3%, which is what Apple might get."

Three years later, and quite a few "price breaks" later, Apple's iPhone is doing quite well and is gobbling up a significant portion of the smartphone market. The iPhone (and by association, its iPod touch sibling) has also been buoyed by Apple's App Store which recently crossed the three billion downloads threshold.

While Steve Ballmer may have been apprehensive about the iPhone at first, he is giving credit where credit is due when it comes to the highly successful App Store. During a recent speaking engagement at the University of Washington, Ballmer noted that, "Apple's done a very nice job that allows people to monetize and commercialize their intellectual property."

Taken at face value, the comment could easily be brushed aside, but there have been reports that Apple and Microsoft are in talks to have Bing replace Google as the default search engine on the iPhone and iPod touch. As most of you already know, Google and Apple have a rocky relationship right now; so kind words from Microsoft's head honcho could help ease any tension that may still be present between the boys from Cupertino and the boys from Redmond.

"This inconvenient truth could lead to unusual changes in the tech-industry climate this year and force people to reconsider their preconceptions," stated Seattle Times staff columnist Brier Dudley. "Microsoft and Apple always have had a love-hate relationship that's much deeper and more complicated than the Hatfield-McCoy sniping their fans engage in."

Even though an Apple-Microsoft friendship could be budding, Microsoft isn't standing still when it comes to the smartphone market. The software giant is casting aside its Windows Mobile 6.x platform to focus its energy on the slick-looking Windows Phone 7 Series platform.



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That's it?
By Smilin on 3/9/2010 12:48:58 PM , Rating: 5
Really? That's it?

You put this whole article together and it has ONE new sentence from Ballmer?




RE: That's it?
By StevoLincolnite on 3/9/2010 1:03:13 PM , Rating: 4
Well, you mix Apple and Microsoft into an article and you're -going- to get allot of hits, hence the reasoning behind it I guess.


RE: That's it?
By chagrinnin on 3/9/2010 1:19:30 PM , Rating: 2
There's also the "eating crow" aspect. Nice thumbnail of Ballmer licking his lips come to think of it. :P


RE: That's it?
By ibarskiy on 3/9/2010 3:54:17 PM , Rating: 4
Everybody keeps saying "eating crow," but that's awfully disingenious. The iPhone Ballmer was commenting on did NOT have a chance to become mainstream. It wasn't just the price point. It was no third party apps and no exchange support - those two things essentilly shut down any business-type serious productivity use. The problem is not with the quote. The problem is with not being able to match what Apple did in a couple years that followed that finally produced a device that is now completely acceptable to business users. While WinMo hardware and software remained essentially crappy, despite HTC's best efforts. Even something as spectacular as HD2 can not fully mask the inadequacies of the platform. Had MS advanced at even half the pace of Apple from that point, we wouldn't be having this conversation.


RE: That's it?
By chagrinnin on 3/9/2010 4:52:24 PM , Rating: 2
ehhh,...you read the original post right? Seriously,..dooood. You wrote that whole comment based on the phrase "eating crow"!? How ironic. :P


RE: That's it?
By niva on 3/9/2010 6:29:16 PM , Rating: 2
Did you read what he said? He was responding to your "eating crow" comment and attempted to relay some information why it's not so clear in this case. Apple had massive success with the IPhone for many reasons. It will be interesting to see if Microsoft manages to drag themselves out of the hole they went into with the Moble sector. I've yet to see any of these Windows 7 Moble phones, it's going to be perhaps too late now.


RE: That's it?
By HrilL on 3/9/2010 7:38:15 PM , Rating: 2
Yup people tend to take the quote out of the context that it was said in at the time. the phone came out at 600 and was dropped to 500 soon after this pissed a lot of people off and apple issued a 100 apple store gift card to some people. The phone lacked basic features that other phones had, even non smart phones. Apple learned from its mistakes and changed their plans and finally came out with applications a year later. And exchange finally came at that same time. If the iPhone was still running OS 1.0 it would have completely flopped. And that is the time when Ballmer made his comments.


RE: That's it?
By michael2k on 3/11/2010 10:08:31 AM , Rating: 2
Essentially, if Apple had let the iPhone stagnate the way Microsoft let IE or Windows Mobile stagnate, the iPhone wouldn't have succeeded.

However the iPhone did not stagnate, and given their track record with biannual OS X upgrades and iPod updates, I fail to see how anyone could assume the iPhone would stand still.

Apple was only able to sell 125k iPods in three months in 2001, but was able to sell over 270k iPhones in 3 days in 2007, and the iPhone was $100 more expensive at $599!


RE: That's it?
By Reclaimer77 on 3/9/2010 2:13:28 PM , Rating: 3
After reading this article I still don't understand why I read it. I mean... I donno. Maybe it's just a slow news day in the tech community today.


RE: That's it?
By afkrotch on 3/9/2010 6:20:30 PM , Rating: 2
I feel the exact same way.


RE: That's it?
By Smilin on 3/10/2010 9:42:47 AM , Rating: 2
Go on Brandon, give it a 6. You know you did it.


The success of the App Store...
By Motoman on 3/9/2010 2:28:30 PM , Rating: 5
Was a pre-determined destiny based on the runaway success of the iPhone. Which was a runaway success despite lacking obvious features, being wildly overpriced, tied to an unreliable carrier, so on and so forth - because of the power of marketing and the burning desire of ignorant consumers to buy their way into hipness and to do everything they can to express their individuality by doing the same thing that everyone else is doing.

Marketing.

...so why did that guarantee the success of the App Store? It's the only way to get anything useful on your damn iPhone, since Apple prohibits any other way to get any apps. Like Flash, for starters.

...when you have a captive audience of hundreds of millions of village idiots, and only one approved way for them to buy apps for the device they purchased to define themselves, then that one approved way to purchase said apps is going to be a huge hit.




By AssBall on 3/9/2010 2:47:26 PM , Rating: 1
I'd have to completely agree. The iPhone is a paperweight without the app-store.


RE: The success of the App Store...
By theapparition on 3/9/2010 3:15:33 PM , Rating: 3
Back in the day, you worked for a mining company for example. They paid you in company money, that was only useful at the company store. You had no choice but to buy overpriced meals and wares there.

That practice was eventually deemed illegal.

Flash forward 100 years and Apple has managed to succesfully open a modern day company store. The only songs that work on it are ones purchased from iTunes, the only apps are from the App store, and even legally purchased music and apps won't work on any other device save Apple hardware.
Even when they screw you over, they don't give you money back, they just give you credit at the company store.


By KoolAidMan1 on 3/9/2010 4:03:32 PM , Rating: 2
What are you smoking? You can put any music on an iPhone. I don't own a single piece of music purchased from iTunes and I have about 15GB on my iPhone. Same with iPods, the majority of music on them do not come from iTunes, Jobs said this himself when making a case to the RIAA that DRM was an ineffective idea.


By kmmatney on 3/9/2010 7:32:59 PM , Rating: 3
What are you smoking? You can put all your music on the iPhone - I've never bought anything from iTunes. And why would I want or care if my Apps (most of them free) work on any other hardware?

I think the iHaters just don't get the fact that iPhone users actually LIKE the App store. Lots of Free or cheap apps to choose from, and you can trust that they will work, or be quickly updated.


RE: The success of the App Store...
By tayb on 3/9/2010 8:05:35 PM , Rating: 3
I can purchase music from any source, add it to iTunes, and then sync it to my iPhone.

I can also purchase music from iTunes and put it on my non iPod media player. It's DRM free.

You can only buy apps from the app store (big surprise) but the comparison between that and your mining company is quite a stretch.


RE: The success of the App Store...
By theapparition on 3/9/2010 11:36:40 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
I can purchase music from any source

Really? Please tell me when Apple allowed plays-for-sure formats, or anything that wasn't Apple DRM on thier device.

They established thier monopoly using DRM locked music, so don't try to shift the argument.


RE: The success of the App Store...
By Sunner on 3/10/2010 1:52:00 AM , Rating: 1
I don't have a clue about Plays for Sure since I don't buy music in shitty formats, but all my real music files(that is, ones without DRM) plays just fine on my iPhone.
I don't see how it's anyone else's fault that you buy crippled music files.


By KoolAidMan1 on 3/10/2010 6:53:36 AM , Rating: 2
The amount that Apple makes selling iTunes music is dwarfed by what they make selling the hardware. The figures are very public, Apple has always made just above break-even on iTunes. After the cost of running the store, bandwidth, paying the RIAA, the movie and TV studios, and app developers, they make off with about 10%.

Either way, had Apple restricted music to their own DRM music then the iPod would NEVER have succeeded. Who wants to buy an mp3 player that ONLY plays music from one store? That is ridiculous, from day one you could rip from your own CDs, play music from services like Amazon, etc. You could always play any mp3, AAC, lossless, or WAV file onto an iPod. You were never restricted to listening to DRM music from iTunes (which hasn't had DRM for a while now), get that through your head.

As for Plays For Sure, that is a restriction that Microsoft imposed on their own devices. You are now going to criticize Apple for not being able to play music with Microsoft's DRM, necessary DRM since how else are they going to enforce services like the Zune Pass?

You're making yourself look like an ass, stop being stupid.


RE: The success of the App Store...
By QueBert on 3/10/2010 10:52:03 AM , Rating: 1
What devices exist that play competitors DRM'ed files? Play For Sure only works on get this... Play For Sure certified devices. Do Zune's play the DRM'ed iTunes files? Hell no, but for some reason people like you in this situation will shit on Apple for not supporting a proprietary DRM format. But MS will get a pass for not playing iTunes DRM files. Lovely. Apple established their monopoly by having the first online music store worth using. And IMHO, it's still by far the best. They originally had DRM because it's what the record labels demanded. Apple had no reason to want DRM beyond that. Today they have no DRM on songs and they're playable on any PMP worth a damn.

I'm interested to hear back from you on a device that plays multiple types of DRM. Because I've never heard of it. Maybe because it doesn't exist??


I can't blame Balmer
By Abrahmm on 3/9/2010 2:01:41 PM , Rating: 3
I can't really blame Balmer for his prediction of the iPhone not doing well. Logically speaking, who would have thought that a locked down, touch screen phone that offered few new things at an extremely high price would be a success? Truth is the App store has probably done more to push the success of the iPhone than the phone itself has. Luckily the Android Marketplace is now a legitimate competitor to the Apple App Store, while Android offers a better OS on much better hardware. Hopefully the general public will see past the fashion statement and wise up to the best choice in the smart phone market.




RE: I can't blame Balmer
By MrX8503 on 3/9/2010 2:10:38 PM , Rating: 3
The android phones does have better hardware (Nexus 1), but its still not as responsive as the iPhone. The Nexus1 may launch apps a few milliseconds faster, but using the app is choppy.

I think the reason behind this is that the iPhone has a better physics engine coupled with a better capacitive screen.


RE: I can't blame Balmer
By Abrahmm on 3/9/2010 2:19:10 PM , Rating: 2
Real time applications can be a little choppy on Android, but that is poised to change soon. Some of the real time choppiness is due to Java and the Garbage collector, which randomly uses 10-90ms of CPU time. Skilled programmers can minimize the calling and cycles the garbage collector uses, but the issue may still pop up. Google's work on the Android Native Development Kit which allows native C/C++ code to run on Android will help real time apps and games to run more smoothly.


RE: I can't blame Balmer
By omnicronx on 3/9/2010 3:29:18 PM , Rating: 3
I don't think you can really peg it down to native code though, as Objective-C is not native code either..

I also really don't think you can peg all of Google problems on garbage collection either. If a basic Android app gets to the point where it starts to freeze up, it was badly programmed. We are not talking about full fledged desktop applications here, how many invalid/unreachable objects can there be to cleanup if it was properly programmed? Certainly not enough where it would get to the point where the app is not fluid, especially before you do anything (which is the case with many Android apps I've tried)

That being said, perhaps you are on to something, as automatic garbage collection was omitted from the iPhone, but the same is not true with OSX.


RE: I can't blame Balmer
By boogle on 3/10/2010 11:09:33 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I don't think you can really peg it down to native code though, as Objective-C is not native code either..


Actually it is, it's a superset of C. If you want you can embed assembly into your iphone apps - doesn't get more native than that.


By sapiens74 on 3/9/2010 5:30:35 PM , Rating: 2
Seems they don't do well unless they are getting beaten like a red headed step child.

Now Apple is in a place of dominance with Google making a serious run with some great phones.

MS has their work cut out for them.




By Abrahmm on 3/9/2010 7:22:55 PM , Rating: 2
I wouldn't really call 25% of the smart phone market a "place of dominance", the media just portrays it that way. Blackberry still has the largest market share.


By crystal clear on 3/9/2010 10:38:55 PM , Rating: 2
correction- Its Nokia that has the largest merketshae,check all recently published rmarketshare reports for more/accurate information.


By Abrahmm on 3/9/2010 11:51:44 PM , Rating: 2
Correction- It depends whether you are talking about U.S. or World wide... RIM has the largest in the US, but world wide it's Nokia.


By QueBert on 3/10/2010 10:58:48 AM , Rating: 2
Apple does have dominance though. I mean they offer a single handset and still pull the numbers they do. Against any single smartphone in the US Apple is in the lead. Of course RIM will have more % because they have a dozen different phones. When you have a quarter of the market where your biggest competitor has 12 times the phones you do, that's success right there. Around my area I see about a 1:3 iPhone/Blackberry ratio. Pretty damn impressive if you ask me. And dominance could be claimed simply by having the single most desired handset in America. When's the last RIM phone that had thousands of people lining up 2+ days before it was released to get one??


App Store
By MrX8503 on 3/9/2010 2:07:25 PM , Rating: 3
I think Apple hit a gold mine with their iPhone release in 2007. It had a fluid OS and Apps which is now at over 100,000?

Flash forward to 2010 and WinMo 7 isn't gonna be released until late this year. Over 3 years later MS still hasn't released a fluid OS or an App Store ecosystem. We could be looking close to 5 years since iPhone's release before WinMo is back in the game. Steve Balmer made a grave mistake by sitting on the WinMo 6 goose egg for too long, and now its stolen.

Kudos to Google for making significant gains with Android, Shame on you Microsoft.




RE: App Store
By bupkus on 3/9/2010 3:24:26 PM , Rating: 2
Couldn't agree more.
Just what is the problem with Microsoft? With their years of developing operating systems and the resources available they should be light years ahead of everyone else with Windows Mobile. I can't help but conclude that their leadership completely lacks vision. I'm not saying that Steve Jobs is or isn't a genius but Microsoft sure makes him look like one.

Is it Microsoft who invented the "slow boat to China"?


RE: App Store
By KoolAidMan1 on 3/9/2010 4:06:39 PM , Rating: 2
Couldn't have said it better myself. Apple is in the position it was in by having an excellent phone before anyone else had one. Apps coming out a year later put it over the top.

Now you have other smartphone manufacturers coming out two to three years later, also with good devices, also with app stores, but with developers wary to jump on because of the lack of customers relative to the iPhone and customers wary to jump on because of the lack of developers. It is a chicken and the egg scenario that they need to overcome, and something Apple didn't have to deal with because they beat everyone to the punch by establishing a large base first.


RE: App Store
By robinthakur on 3/11/2010 8:26:18 AM , Rating: 2
To my mind, what sold the iphone into people's hands was the OS first and foremost. Even when there were no apps, no 3G and a barebones phone as most would see it, it still made people say "Wow" and queue around the block because it was hugely different and better at those core functions and the way people interacted with it. That Apple could even enter a mature industry with zero experience and not get pulverized says it all.

The incrememental updates upto version 3.0 have now seen the phone become pretty indispensible to those that own one and the way that Apple supports and updates its devices for the long run puts consumers at ease. The App store is absolutely key to its current and ongoing success turning the device into more of a platform a la consoles and monetizing the content that you can buy (in addition to all the free content available)

Knowing Microsoft pretty well, the reason they haven't responded up until now is that MS have had a bit of a crisis of confidence in the last few years (around the time of Vista) which is obvious to the people that deal with them. They weren't exactly leaderless, but when your head guy is denouncing this great product one day and then praising it up the next, it produces indecision which goes all through the ranks. MS in general were forced to innovate to stay in the game with Windows 7 and that turrned out well enough, so hopefully they are back on track and won't be repeating their mistakes of the past. If all phones on the market offered the usability and utility of the iPhone would that really be a bad thing?


Let face it...he is frustrated & a loser
By crystal clear on 3/9/2010 9:54:42 PM , Rating: 1
Talking about Steve Ballmer - Last October, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer scoffed at the notion of smartphones becoming replacements for PCs.

"Let's face it, the Internet was designed for the PC.

The Internet is not designed for the iPhone ," Ballmer told the Associated Press. "That's why they've got 75,000 applications — they're all trying to make the Internet look decent on the iPhone."

Also this-

To be entirely candid, the iPhone opened our eyes as to some things that needed to be done that were not in our plan. "Some execution had really gone astray," Terry Myerson, vice president of Windows Phone Engineering at Microsoft, told The New York Times over the weekend.

Now it will be the iPad that will open Ballmer's eyes when he see the ipad's huge marketshare/revenues by this year end.




By Smilin on 3/10/2010 9:44:16 AM , Rating: 2
Cherry picking.

Go lookup the Microsoft 3-screens strategy.


App store patent?
By cheetah2k on 3/9/2010 8:47:09 PM , Rating: 2
Didn't Apple patent the "app store"

<sarcasim>




By jeromekwok on 3/9/2010 9:15:15 PM , Rating: 2
Remember the first generation iPhone and iPod touch, it does not officially allow third party apps. It was jailbreakers invented the easy to use jailbreak and the infamous "Installer" app. It allows jailbroken devices to install hundreds of free apps with one touch.

Apple then hired the developers behind the Installer app and created the AppStore in iPhone OS 2.0.

Give some credit to Apple for building the jail and motivated the jailbreakers.

Too bad Windows developers did not think differently.




LocalBeacon
By Eileen on 3/9/2010 10:01:22 PM , Rating: 2
For those app developers that don't know Objective-C and Cocoa Touch and don't want to outsource development, check out localbeacon (an iphone app builder) at www.bigforge.com. Great for those who want to build just one app or developers interested in white label.




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