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Bioware and LucasArts team up to release a new Star Wars MMO

LucasArts and BioWare officially announced the development of a new massively multiplayer online pc game called Star Wars: The Old Republic. The game will be story-driven and set during the timeframe of past hit Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic. Star Wars: The Old Republic, is being developed and published by BioWare and LucasArts.

Star Wars: The Old Republic, is set thousands of years before Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker, when war between the Old Republic and the Sith Empire raged. Players can choose to play as Jedi, Sith, or a variety of other classic Star Wars roles. Similar to other MMOs, players will be able to define their personal story and decide whether to follow the light or dark side of the Force. Players will be able to choose to team up with friends to battle enemies and overcome huge challenges as a group.

LucasArts president Darrell Rodriguez’s discussed how their goal was to return to the Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic franchise stating, “Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic is the most critically acclaimed Star Wars game in LucasArts history and a preeminent example of our company’s interactive storytelling heritage, For a long time, we’ve long wanted to return to the franchise in a grand way, and we felt that the best setting for it was an online world that would allow millions of people to participate in the experience together. We knew that the developer capable of working with us to deliver an engrossing story with a fully-realized online world was BioWare."

The game will explore a time frame 300 years after the events of Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic.  This area of Star Wars chronology has been relatively unexplored when compared to the Darth Vader, Luke Skywalker era.

According to Dr. Ray Muzyka, Co-Founder and General Manager/CEO of BioWare, storytelling will help to differentiate this MMO from the rest.  He states, "In Star Wars: The Old Republic, we’re fusing BioWare’s heritage of critically-acclaimed storytelling with the amazing pedigree of Lucasfilm and LucasArts”

Similar to Muzyka, Dr. Greg Zeschuk, Co-Founder and Vice President Development Operations of BioWare discussed how this MMO will emphasize innovative story and character development, saying, “BioWare has been able to add to the Star Wars history in developing the game’s story and has created an overarching narrative that players can enjoy, regardless of their play style. Our goal is to offer players an emotionally rewarding experience that combines the traditional elements of MMO gameplay with innovations in story and character development."

Additional details for Star Wars: The Old Republic such as features, gameplay and release date will be announced at a later time.

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I have a bad feeling about this..
By Heero on 10/22/2008 11:24:49 AM , Rating: 2
I played Star Wars Galaxies and one of the reasons I quit that MMO was that you can just select a new character and puff you have a Jedi. I loved in Stars Wars Galaxies that you played other roles in the universe. Now I loved SWKotor 1 and 2, but if they make it easy to become a jedi, then everyone will be one. I know that when this game launches and people starting their characters they will mostly, if not all, will choose to be a Jedi or Sith. To me this sort of makes a Jedi less significant when there are 1 or 2 milion other Jedis or Sith running around being all force happy. I hope they make jedi or sith really difficult to the point only a select few types of people can hack it.

RE: I have a bad feeling about this..
By nosfe on 10/22/2008 11:30:20 AM , Rating: 5
RE: I have a bad feeling about this..
By Heero on 10/22/2008 11:42:51 AM , Rating: 2
Touché good man, touché.

By Kyanzes on 10/23/2008 8:13:32 AM , Rating: 2
Orbital bombardment :)))

RE: I have a bad feeling about this..
By talozin on 10/22/2008 11:49:41 AM , Rating: 4
I hope they make jedi or sith really difficult to the point only a select few types of people can hack it.

Telling a large portion of your potential customer base that they can't play the type of character that -- if your "everyone will play one" estimation is accurate -- they actually want to play doesn't seem like a great business strategy.

RE: I have a bad feeling about this..
By Heero on 10/22/2008 12:06:23 PM , Rating: 2

Telling a large portion of your potential customer base that they can't play the type of character that -- if your "everyone will play one" estimation is accurate -- they actually want to play doesn't seem like a great business strategy.

Well yes it is great business strategy, to get all the people who want to play Jedis or siths to play Jedis or siths, but it feels like Lucasarts and everyone are making it seem that your not playing Star Wars if your not play a Jedi or Sith. And Galaxies did rather well before all the Jedis and the trails of Obi-wan fiasco. But again I I'm just hoping that they don't put to much special attention on the Jedi side over the rest of the other professions of this game. I can hope.

RE: I have a bad feeling about this..
By talozin on 10/22/2008 12:14:16 PM , Rating: 5
But again I I'm just hoping that they don't put to much special attention on the Jedi side over the rest of the other professions of this game.

This I'm on board with. Lots of people will want to play Jedi, and good for them, but that's no reason to game-mechanically screw the people who want to play bounty hunters or assassin droids or whatever.

So, to recap: easily available Jedi == good, Jedi who are obviously the best characters in the game == bad.

By Digimonkey on 10/22/2008 11:00:13 PM , Rating: 3
if (jedi == "best") {
else buy_old_republic_mmo();


RE: I have a bad feeling about this..
By kattanna on 10/22/2008 12:08:06 PM , Rating: 3
hence why in the beginning of SWG, it was a true feat to get to play a jedi.. thousands whined and cried on forums.. and them after a bit it became easy.

though honestly, i left the game long before that happened as it simply wasnt fun.

By FITCamaro on 10/22/2008 12:11:09 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah I played for 2 months. In that amount of time they managed to ruin the game.

It was fun though finding the guy in the middle of nowhere on Dantooine (I think) who gave quest item that was a Jedi Holocron. When you cancelled the quest it would leave the Holocron in your inventory. So me and a buddy got about a hundred of them and sold them. Made a fair amount of cash.

RE: I have a bad feeling about this..
By Wagnbat on 10/23/2008 6:50:48 PM , Rating: 2
Telling a large portion of your potential customer base that they can't play the type of character that -- if your "everyone will play one" estimation is accurate -- they actually want to play doesn't seem like a great business strategy.

It worked for Star Wars Galaxies. SWG didn't go under until they made it so easy that anyone could just click the Jedi icon during character creation. SoE lost millions of subscribers from that one mistake alone.

Reason being, Jedi are rare. So seeing one in SWG was also rare in the beginning. You felt 'shocked and awed' when you encountered one, forcing yourself to close your mouth with your hands because your jaw stopped working. Everyone was on even ground except the rare few who had a slight advantage.

And the counter to that advantage? Bounty Hunters. Any disgruntled whiner could roll a BH character and go hunt Jedi to make themselves feel better, while everyone else in the game played it for what it was... A superb role playing game set in the Star Wars Universe.

The 1 click Jedi was the straw that broke the camels back... SoE prior to that had established a history of adding new broken content/features instead of fixing the ones that people pointed out as needing attention.

RE: I have a bad feeling about this..
By Reclaimer77 on 10/23/08, Rating: 0
By ElFenix on 10/28/2008 7:43:24 PM , Rating: 2
raiding sucks. UO gold > all.

RE: I have a bad feeling about this..
By Tsuwamono on 10/22/2008 12:00:26 PM , Rating: 2
I dont agree, at this point in the star wars universe there were a great many jedi and sith. It wouldnt be that bad if they allowed everyone to be jedi or sith if they wanted. Alot will still opt for other classes

RE: I have a bad feeling about this..
By FITCamaro on 10/22/2008 12:12:53 PM , Rating: 3
True there being a lot of Jedi in this time period actually fits(unlike with Galaxies).

RE: I have a bad feeling about this..
By othercents on 10/22/2008 12:46:31 PM , Rating: 2
This is exactly what a Star Wars MMO should be. Jedi vs Sith. Galaxies was good, but they spent a bunch of time building so many classes that they had a hard time keeping everything balanced. After getting a few Jedi then you have a separate balance issue especially if the Jedi are all evil and kill people for the fun of it.

An all Jedi/Sith game gets everyone what they want with plenty of content to work with and loads of fun with Jedi and Sith clashes.


RE: I have a bad feeling about this..
By walk2k on 10/22/2008 1:14:52 PM , Rating: 3
News flash, everyone wants to be a Jedi or Sith.

KOTOR is a story about Jedi and Sith.

This game will have everyone being Jedi or Sith, and guess what, there's nothing wrong with that.

Why would you want it to be "hard" to become a Jedi, I never understood that. Do you ENJOY the frustration of painfully long treadmill grinds? Or do you just want to be one of the only Jedis on your server? Because hey, that's what everyone else wants too. Pretty hard to satisfy everyone....

RE: I have a bad feeling about this..
By FITCamaro on 10/22/2008 1:18:01 PM , Rating: 2
Do you ENJOY the frustration of painfully long treadmill grinds?

Yes a game should have some grind to it. Not make it so freakin easy that everyone can hit max level in a month.

By fibreoptik on 10/27/2008 11:22:39 AM , Rating: 2
Hey! Don't look at WoW that way! You might hurt its feelings :o|

RE: I have a bad feeling about this..
By Reclaimer77 on 10/22/08, Rating: 0
RE: I have a bad feeling about this..
By walk2k on 10/22/2008 2:11:15 PM , Rating: 2
Well I never played SWG so I'll take your word for it that it was a horrible terrible awful game. Does that have to mean all Star Wars MMO games will be just like it?

All I'm saying is it's a game called KNIGHTS of the Old Republic. It's a game about Jedi Knights. There WILL be Jedi. I'm sure there will be non-Jedi characters too, just like there was in KOTOR. Did you even play KOTOR??

By FITCamaro on 10/22/2008 2:14:31 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah honestly as much fun as being a Jedi is in single player games, I just don't think they work well in an online dynamic. You have issues of other players to deal with. How do you be super fast when everyone else can be? How does the game handle it for onlookers?

I mean you'll have everyone just spamming force push or pull and attacking you as you're getting up.

I think an awesome SW game without player Jedi is much better. I'd rather have NPC Jedi that you're assisting with a great story line. It makes balancing the game far easier. And it reduces issues with players being dicks as a Jedi running around trying to kill everyone. They're supposed to be faster and more powerful than everyone else. Not unkillable but still. One person isn't supposed to be able to take down a Jedi on their own. To be able to changes the dynamic of the SW universe.

By WTFiSJuiCE on 10/22/2008 4:02:12 PM , Rating: 3
SWG honestly had the right idea and laid down the core of their game right: open-world, not bound by forced questing, plethora of professions and templates to choose and build, no level based system, only skill based, player based economy, groups of up to 20 people, etc....its just after they did that, they basically did nothing with it in terms of content aside from their "one dungeon a month" policy that quickly turned into 3-4 months or longer.

Jedi and Sith started out with a mysterious demigod-like notion about them and since we had merely 3-5 of them in the first trilogy, we didn't know any better. It was like that in the game too, the rumors were out there and the presence of holocrons just reinforced them. The second trilogy opened our eyes and desensitized the relationship and the mysteriousness went out the window. The second trilogy made them vulnerable not in the omg if ur emo, u can be turned sense, but omg i'm a commando in a group of 20, concentrated pew-pew lasers can possibly = dead jedi. The first notion of permadeath gave non-jedi hope in the game. It was kind of like a vision of god coming to you and handing you a Holy Hand Grenade.

I mean you most likely will need assistance from a few meatbags to kill one and rightfully so it should be that way. It's not like they could never be killed though...unless it was the CU and they had master defender >.> those battles could last over an hr...

RE: I have a bad feeling about this..
By WTFiSJuiCE on 10/22/2008 4:03:13 PM , Rating: 5
SWG mistake #1: Setting the timeframe: god that was stupid...they limited themselves into a tiny window of time between ep. 4 n 5 which gave them really nothing to work with in terms of content and oh man did it show. They literally depended on the player to make sh!t up him/herself for things to do and have fun since we had no dungeons or any real GCW events happening. Although it was hilarious to, on occasion, watch a group of imps waltz into a rebel town sportin 3 AT-STs b4 they were turned from godless killing machines into a three shot kill.

SWG's mistake #2: was when one of the dev's friends finally unlocked Jedi and confirmed it was possible to become one. They literally F@cked their own "player-based" economic setup as nearly everyone dropped their professions to holocron prof grind. To minimize dmg after realizing what a GIANT mistake they had made, they should've labeled it as a special event (since we do know that on the side Vader and papa palpatine were always hunting the Jedi remnant) and limited the unlocks to a barren few. Sure some would've cried but hey, it's a special event.

Mistake #3: JTL: Honestly, Space was actually great. The problem was that after they released space, that was it. They literally did nothing with it for the longest time. My friends n I cruisin around in our Firesprays in the first month that it was out w/ nuthin to do aside from PvP'n in Kessel before that got nerfed to hell.

Mistake #4: The CU: Honestly, in hindsight the CU wasn't anywhere nearly as terrible as the infamous NGE...but at the time, people, including me were outraged. The combat system needed a total revamp like WoW needed one. Gentle tweaking would've sufficed to try and break up god templates that were used, i.e. defense and dodge stackers for example. But noooo they just wiped out the system that we knew and gave us a taste of good ol' level systems.

In respects to Jedi it wasn't bad at all, the CU made it pretty interesting with all of the different template choices. It gave the Jedi some real kind of purpose, all they really required then was the illusive FRS that didn't come. It also gave the people some purpose: Murder the Jedi scum. Worst thing they did concerning the Jedi was take out permadeath, oh man was that ever satisfying.

Mistake #5: Lack of post-launch Content. There was scant amount of content ever being cycled into the game...and it showed. In what...3 years? there were a total of...4 dungeons implemented? We had the exact same armor sets that we had at launch except for R.I.S., BH, and Mandalorian sets that were implemented. Wookies for the longest time were discriminated against (big shock there) with a lack of armor protection. There was supposed to be this giant GCW going on and all the devs did was completely eliminate the Imperial advantage and make the playing field equal which was retarded given the timeline they forgot they had set the game into. We were finally given access to Outer Space and then that experiment in terms of content releases was all but over. Yet still, somehow people found a way to enjoy themselves and I really commend the playerbase as they really stuck loyally to a game that sported a team that didn't care about them for a long time.

Mistake #6: Lack of coherent content: Now I didn't see it at first because b4 my friend at work got me into SWG, I wasn't heavily into the whole Star Wars thing. I watched the movies and that was good enuff. But after looking into the lore, I was just left somewhat disgusted at how terribly this team screwed with the continuity of this timeframe. I mean look at the planets they brought out for us to play on: Tatooine, Dantooine, Endor, Yavin 4, Dathomir, Corellia, Naboo, Rori, Talus, and Lok.

Ok...Dantooine had its base already destroyed so its an irrelevant planet, Endor has nothing but ewoks on it (and the occasional Gorax), no 2nd death star being built just yet so its irrelevant, Yavin was somewhat relevant although I believe they had mostly evacuated after Operation Skyhook (yes I did wiki that) and no there was no rebel base in the Exar Kun temple, although there were apparent excavations being done a year or so after the battle (again, wiki'd); still...not much relevance there. Dathomir was just stupid as it had been wiped off of every map thanks to Yoda after getting his ass handed to him by Nightsisters; this is proven when Han Solo wins the deed to the planet through a bet and doesn't even know where the damn place is located. Yet there are two spaceports down there and a force-sensitive village later placed there? Wow...great job dev team. Nobody cares about Rori or Talus, best thing that happened to Rori was Restuss got exploded in the NGE. Talus is so irrelevant i'm not going to even talk about it. Lok had Nym and although Nym is a kewl character and his faction could've been utilized, it wasn't and that in itself makes the entire planet worthless. Corellia was nice to explore and start on (started out in Tyrena at launch) and its relevant since its a Core World. Naboo is in the Mid Rim, has ties to Palpatine and the RSF and was another decent starting world so I don't have a big quarrel with it either.

Finally...Tatooine. Yes most people do like Tatooine and...don't get me wrong, I like Tatooine too (hell I lived just outside of Bestine on Bria for close to 4 years) but its a backwater outer rim planet, it DID have Jabba's palace, yet they did nothing with his faction aside from setting some neutral space missions and the DWB missions from there, and there was Anchorhead. But really, there was no true GCW happening out this far. Sure, there were a few battalions of stormtroopers here and there in some of the cities but the planet was mostly Jabba's. Where was the true relevance if they weren't going to do anything with having Jabba as a neutral faction. It merely seems as though they just picked some planet names out of a hat and threw them into the game.

I'm not gonna bother mentioning the NGE since even people who never played know that whole story.

Wow, total SWG rant...shocking. Of the entire SW chronology, I have to say that the Old Republic timeline struck me as the most fascinating one (particularly the Exar Kun timeline for me personally) so I for one am to excited to see them exploring it. I hope to god they do it right and do it well but from past experiences I won't hold my breath. One complete difference is easily the timeline itself and the complete freedom they have since there is a near-complete gap between the end of KOTOR II and Darth Bane's time which I believe is around 25-2950 years (KOTOR 3951 BBY - DB 1000 BBY).

Yes the art-style so far looks god-awful and I sincerely hope they change it but even if they didn't I still might be inclined to try it in hopes that the gameplay wins me over.

One can make the argument that Star wars has always been about Jedi and Sith, but one can also make the argument that with all of the Jedi and Sith out there exploding the universe, its the characters that aren't Jedi or Sith that are infused into the plots that truly make Star wars so great (cause I know, especially for me, that it sure as hell wasn't Luke that made the orig. trilogy special for me) so...lets not worry about Jedi and Sith getting implemented into the game because its happening; lets instead worry about Bioware getting the other classes down right and making them fun and giving them opportunity to get on somewhat equal footing against the Jedi, even if it requires a group. Also let's hope that they create a good interactive combat system that works...and then stick with it. As long as there's balance and content, there is hope.

Sry, was too long so had to make it 2 posts

RE: I have a bad feeling about this..
By Heero on 10/22/2008 4:52:45 PM , Rating: 1
You sir deserve to be rated up to 4 or 5 for you respectable post.

RE: I have a bad feeling about this..
By FITCamaro on 10/22/2008 5:06:19 PM , Rating: 2
If you've read the books, Dathomir did have a space port.

As far as Endor, my guess was that they eventually had originally planned to get to the 6th movie time frame where it would have been relevant.

You use a lot of acronyms. I've read nearly all the books but wtf is NGE and FRS?

As far as the game ruining things about the universe, the new trilogy did far more to do that. The Death Star was not invented by the seperatists but Danni Quee(sp?) in the Maw facility. The identity of Luke and Leia's mother had already been set. C3PO was not built by Anakin. And R2D2 did not date back to the pre-Clone wars era. I'm surprised they didn't throw Han and Lando into Episodes 1-3 somewhere for the hell of it since they felt it necessary to have everyone else. Even the Chewbacca knowing Yoda part ticked me off although at least that was plausible since Wookies live a long time.

Only in the more recent books have they begun adopting things from the new movies because they had to.

RE: I have a bad feeling about this..
By WTFiSJuiCE on 10/22/2008 6:44:06 PM , Rating: 2
You are right Fit, it actually did have a spaceport. That was my blunder.

Was it a regular spaceport or was it strictly an imperial spaceport used specifically for the penal colony?

By FITCamaro on 10/22/2008 6:49:55 PM , Rating: 2
The latter

By WTFiSJuiCE on 10/22/2008 6:53:58 PM , Rating: 2
Because I re-read my post, there it sounded almost dick-ish in nature and surprisingly that was not my intention when I posted it.

So let me iterate that the question directed at Fit is sincere and not sarcastic or spiteful.

By JediJeb on 10/22/2008 5:22:01 PM , Rating: 2
I have been in SWG now for 3 1/2 years and still like it. I don't really like how they changed it and dumbed it down so much to cater to the kids instead of the more mature players but it is still fun to me. The biggest complaints I read on the forums is from the hard core combat PvP players who want everything centered around combat. When the game was first introduced and in beta it was marketed as the most expansive MMORPG ever made, the emphasis there being on RPG. As a platform for people wanting to Roleplay in the Star Wars Universe it is great. The openess of the worlds and player development is the best I know of. You could actually play the game for years without ever doing any real hard core combat if you wanted.

Those wanting to compare it to something like the online versions of the First Person Shooters are really comparing apples to oranges and will be disappointed if they want it to be that. It is really annoying when you see groups in a cantina having great in-character roleplaying conversations and some kid runs in exclaiming how lame and gay the game is because people are just talking to each other and not shooting each other and starts running in circles and hopping and spamming nonsense just to disrupt everyone having a good time. The majority of people starting characters there now try to make it something it isn't. The combat system is important but it is no more important than the social aspects. SWG has been killed by the same thing that will kill any MMO, listening to the vocal minority of the player base. If the Devs will get in game and just observe the bulk of the players and interact with them from time to time then they will really know what will keep a game alive.

By FITCamaro on 10/22/2008 1:16:55 PM , Rating: 2
Is the game supposed to be 100% Jedi? If so how do they figure in things like crafting and resource gathering? Jedi weren't involved in such tasks beyond creating their own lightsabers. And I don't think BioWare would make an MMO without such systems.

Sorry while I would never attend a convention or anything, I'm a Star Wars nut.

By sliderule on 10/22/2008 12:16:10 PM , Rating: 4
I was looking forward to this, but I'm really disappointed in the art work.

Over sized cartoonish World of Warcraft looking weapons!? :(

RE: I have a bad feeling about this..
By Wererat on 10/22/2008 12:37:06 PM , Rating: 2
That's the key challenge IMO in a Star Wars MMO. The whole mythos is centered around the Sith and Jedi.

Sure, there are other interesting characters, but at the center of every plotline whether it's KOTOR or the original movie are the Jedi, the Sith, and lightsabres.

So it's only natural for people to want to be the focus of the plot and not a side-story. Even properly-tuned classes such that a smuggler or whatever is equally as powerful as a jedi don't change this.

Opening classes through achievement is a tempting but flawed option; it only guarantees that the most irritating, exploitative (in the sense of using others, not in the sense of abusing game flaws), and selfish get to play the 'elite' classes, or else the bar is set so low that every player achieves it anyway but is irritated at having to 'grind' (aka not have fun). For some reason players expect their free time spent on games to be fun.

(In snarky moments, I think an achievement-unlocking system would be perfect for Sith, as the behaviors seen among the 'achiever' MMO gamers fit nicely into the Sith code...)

By WTFiSJuiCE on 10/22/2008 4:09:35 PM , Rating: 2
Funny, I see the image of an "achiever MMO gamer" as playing an HK assassin droid coupled w/ the voicebox of a 12-year old.

By rippleyaliens on 10/22/2008 6:57:55 PM , Rating: 2
I was a player on SWG.. HEAVY player. 3 characters, the whole package. Up until the NGE, it rocked, had something for everyone.
1, Social aspect. met and still have many friends.
2, PVE- Was actually fun in the begining.
3, Player Economy. LOVED it. Crafting (was challenging) Business- Loved it. (made over a billion credits) (Armorsmith, and had to realllllly work at it, to make the good armor)
4, PVP- Welllll that kinda was iffy. If you were in a good guild, with elite weapons (player crafted which was awesome), PVP was actually fun. Just SONY was very cheap, hence the servers LAGGGGEEDDDD big time. (all pre jedi)..

The killer with SWG, as well as allllll mmo's, is the changing of the game, to the best/worst, YET making the players pay for it.
SWG-Pre CU was great, (hated the fact that a martial arts guy could take 5 master pistol-eors, but ...)
SWG-Post CU, actually was more fun, to me.
SWG NGE- i played for maybe 3 days, called it quits.

SWG with skill sets, meant that 1 day, you could be a master armorsmith/weaponsmith/business man, - harvest/mine supplies (which was cool), manufacture the gear, DESIGN the gear, Market it..
Next week, you could be a Teras master/master fencer (OUCH.. but fun),
Next week Be a master sword/master Doc, and PVE everything, and just have fun.

Soooo many different options.
I got my jedi on Dec 28th 2003, like one of the first on the Tempest Server.. It was cool, yet MADE you be EXTRA cautious, as perma death was out there. VERY rare for a jedi to be sceen...
Post CU, WELLLLL Jedi's were out there in force.. YET a JEDI could stillll get BEAT DOWN very FAST.... But no perma-death, IT was still fun to play.. LOTS of jedi sound cheesy, but it was fun.. Jedi were not ALL powerful.

NGE- Well, going from something in which every character within a guild, 50+ members, could be unique, to 6 classes or 8 i forgot, kinda thumbed it down toooo much.
Levels? that is all cool and all, but uggg,
Still after 5 years of SWG online, only a hand ful of content... the is what killed the game..

MMO doesnt mean PVP, or PVE
MMO just means MASSIVE - with pvp/pve/social settings.
WOW/City of heros/etc,, all are good games, even swg, i just hope this game. When it comes out, limits the amount of nerfing... just hope it stays consistent..

My best memmories, are the LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG GG walk my first day, walking from the top city to coronet, with only $250 credits, didnt know how to catch the shuttle, there were no mounts, vehicles.. just have to hoff it.. I can still remember those HOURS!!!! and i loved it.Going to a different planet actually caused fear... lol...
50v50 with lightsabers, lasers, flame throwers.. ahhhhhh the good ole days...
Kryat Dragons... ahhhhhh the 50 people trying to kill one (first few months ).. ahhh those were cool. but then killing 5-9 kryats solo (Flame+feign hehe), still was fun, but no missions/no quests (rather quests for junk items), Constant holo grinding (i got REALLLLLYYY LUCKY only 7 prof's), then the JEDI grinding.. yet no tasks, missions, and constant belly aching...

I hear that WOW, suffers from simular things....
WELL i am ready for this one.. new machine worthy, lets just hope this game rocks...please............

not sure...
By The0ne on 10/22/2008 11:37:42 AM , Rating: 3
I don't think it's going to make it. I like Star Wars but the games are all meh to me. Well, that AOE Star Wars clone was pretty funny to play :)

Even with BioWare's help and their excellent storytelling, I don't think it's going to make it. At this point I'm not sure how any Star Wars game will make it without help from companies that can get the job done with enthusiasm and excitement :) If Blizzard, SE or even Namco (for their Vadar and Yoda CG's in Soul Calibur) it might be a different story.

But all in all, we'll just have to wait and see.

RE: not sure...
By Chaser on 10/22/2008 11:49:25 AM , Rating: 2
How insightful.

RE: not sure...
By FITCamaro on 10/22/08, Rating: 0
RE: not sure...
By Reclaimer77 on 10/22/2008 1:46:55 PM , Rating: 1
Yes because WoW is the epitome of an engaging MMO. Final Fantasy XI blew it away.

Fit stick to bashing libs on oil and foreign policy. Cause this statement is purely FUD buddy. I have played WOW for 3 years and at no point was anything " given to me now ". The amount of time spent obtaining even average gear and raiding levels is, in fact, quite unhealthy to be perfectly honest.

Final Fantasy XI ?? You are joking right.

RE: not sure...
By FITCamaro on 10/22/2008 2:20:35 PM , Rating: 2
The fact that you ran the same instances over and over and over does not make it a good game. WoW is a game about gear collection and beating a raid boss. There's no real story that people care about. In Final Fantasy XI, I felt like I was playing an epic story. Which is far more important to me.

You don't have to agree with me. You care about one thing. I care about others. I was bored to tears with WoW in 3 months. I played FFXI for 3 years. I would have kept playing but time didn't permit. Although based on what a friend told me about how they've changed the leveling system (it will let you wear your high level armor and scale its stats to the level of your party automatically so high level players can level with lower level ones without having to change gear), I might hop back into it. At least until this game comes out.

RE: not sure...
By The0ne on 10/22/2008 3:16:21 PM , Rating: 2
Getting testy without valid reasons. I only gave my opinions on the matter base on both companies reputation and track record for PC games. I didn't vouch for WoW or any other games. I did vouch for the companies that does good work on games however. And this you don't agree? Why don't you just chime in on your opinion instead of bashing others? Do you know something that I don't that's factual?

WoW does have a story it's just lost in the countless quests and whatnot that goes on within the game. I'm an avid fan of the Warcraft story, since the first release, but I just don't have the time to pick up on the entire story from it. The novels can compensate a bit for this. Have you followed the story to make your statements?

And to end this, I play FFXI. It's one of two that I still play. The other is Heroes of Might and magic III, a turn base game. The story in FFXI is also amazing but the world, quests, events and such are not as large as WoW. Thus the player tends to stick to the story more often. Having said that, however, many US players have little clue to the story of FFXI. This is because of the same mentality they use for most games they play. The goal it seems is to get the highest level and best equipments in the shortest time as they can. This produces idiot players that don't really know how to play the game or the character.

My 75's on FFXI if you like to know. And this is from 3 years of playing as I've finding less and less time to devote to it.

Taru: rdm, whm, cor, brd, war, nin, smn
Hume: war, nin, mnk, pld
Elvaan: war, nin, brd, rdm

Yes, I love war and nin but my main is whm. I just play the other jobs because many people suck at them and I wanted to prove them to be real idiots. Sadly, I'm being harsh because I have collected data myself to at least prove what I'm talking about when it comes to FFXI.

So there, can we end this flame thing and just post our for/against opinions on this Star Wars game.

RE: not sure...
By Reclaimer77 on 10/22/2008 6:02:02 PM , Rating: 1
The goal it seems is to get the highest level and best equipments in the shortest time as they can.

Thats the goal of EVERY MMO. FFXI fanboi's however for some reason look down on this. Perfering instead to be browbeated by endless quests, poor " job " system, time sinks for doing the most meanial tasks, and an Xp system that doesn't actually reward your EXPERIENCES.

RE: not sure...
By FITCamaro on 10/22/2008 10:33:11 PM , Rating: 2
How is having too much to do a bad thing in a game?

And how is the job system bad? You don't have to have multiple characters to do everything (except for extra inventory space). Get tired of being a healer? You can be anything else. Just have to level it. Was one of the best parts of the game.

RE: not sure...
By Reclaimer77 on 10/23/2008 12:25:47 AM , Rating: 1
How is having too much to do a bad thing in a game?

If it stops you from actually ENJOYING content, then its a bad thing. If doing menial tasks IS the content... then your game has problems.

And how is the job system bad? You don't have to have multiple characters to do everything (except for extra inventory space). Get tired of being a healer? You can be anything else. Just have to level it. Was one of the best parts of the game.

It ruins any semblence of a persistent,balanced game world when everyone will just easily job into the current " flavor of the month " overpowered template.

Star Wars Galaxies had the same stupid system. Oh new patch, Rifleman got buffed *poof* half the game goes Rifleman. TK , because of a huge developer oversite, can stack so much defense they CANNOT be hit *POOF* EVERYONE goes TK. Ect ect.


RE: not sure...
By The0ne on 10/23/2008 1:18:17 AM , Rating: 2
While I agree with you on the having too much content, I think the job system in FFXI is fine. Granted it's not 100% perfect but it's nowhere near as bad as WoW for example. The latest WoW patch granting Pro War and Ret Plds to survive and do massive amounts of damage? Hmm...wack.

If WoW didn't have that "too much content" I wouldn't get so bore of it so quick trying to enjoy the storyline. So many damn errand quests that adds no significance to the storyline. Yea, I'll kill more pigs to help with the warrior training. FFXI isn't an exception but it's doesn't have that many to be of a nuisance to me.

Changing jobs in FFXI is not dependent on "the flavor of the month" idea. It doesn't work like that at all. Some jobs are better at certain tasks but it's not certainly overpower in any way. There aren't many instances with updates to the game I can think of that "poof" any job to overshadow the others. Maybe you're talking about a different game? :o

RE: not sure...
By FITCamaro on 10/23/2008 6:06:53 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah the classes in FFXI were some of the most balanced ones I'd ever seen. Yes certain combinations were more popular. But you always saw people with interesting combinations just to show it could be done. My friend had a Taru Taru Dark Knight/Black Mage that was awesome.

And unless you had the new job leveled, its not like you could just switch to it anyway. You would have to level it up first.

RE: not sure...
By Reclaimer77 on 10/23/2008 5:39:39 PM , Rating: 2
Granted it's not 100% perfect but it's nowhere near as bad as WoW for example. The latest WoW patch granting Pro War and Ret Plds to survive and do massive amounts of damage? Hmm...wack.

Thats caused by a bug/gear stat change oversite in the new patch, which was a MASSIVE one adding tons of code and content and complete gear reitemization for many classes. You can hardly say this is typical of the game. And fyi, next Tuesday the patch will fix the issue. So OMG, we had to put up with overpowered Ret Paladins for ONE WEEK. Which for non PVP server players, isn't really an issue at all.

Protection Warrior has SUCKED for the better part of 3 years. Not sure how you put them on the list with Ret Paladin. Warriors are simply fixed, not overpowered.

Wow, on the whole, is a very balanced game. 90% of all issues are community whiners and QQ'ers and everyone knows it.

If WoW didn't have that "too much content" I wouldn't get so bore of it so quick trying to enjoy the storyline.

Why are you trying to enjoy the storyline ? The best parts of the storyline involve end game raiding. Get to 70, get decent gear, and get in a raiding guild. Whats the problem again ? And if you don't like raiding well uhhh.. not sure why your playing the game to be honest.

RE: not sure...
By The0ne on 10/23/2008 12:46:12 AM , Rating: 2
I'm not quite sure, well actually I'm very sure, you have no clue what you just said otherwise you wouldn't be saying it about FFXI or any other MMO that is different from WoW.

There are always players in MMO that want to get to the endgame as fast as possible. FFXI is NO exception to this rule. Where did you come off stating FFXI fanboi looks down on this? All I said was that I prefer storylines rather than skipping everything to get to the end. I wouldn't have 3 characters if I didn't.

You last sentence is just utter stupidity that doesn't even deserve talking about.

RE: not sure...
By The0ne on 10/23/2008 1:56:12 AM , Rating: 2
Most of you, if not all, seem to think I favor FFXI over any other MMOs. I've played Connan, LOTR, WoW and countless others. My preference for FFXI is because of the game mechanics and the storyline. The same goes for WoW too but I just don't have the time to go through all the quests.

What started off as an opinion on the Star War game turned into a fanboy argument of one game to another. This isn't me and although I've talked about FFXI quite often in this post, it's mainly to point out flaws others comments...purely from lacking of understanding or in-experience of a game they haven't really taken the time to enjoy. I would definitely not be making comments about games I haven't play base off of what I "heard" or read in reviews. People have different tast for different types of MMO. We should all be grateful there's still competition coming out in the genre.

Truth is even though I don't think BioWare and Lucas can pull this off successfully I will eventually try it. I'm also a star wars fan and I enjoy the storyline a lot. I'm a avid reader. But most certainly, some of you here are so single minded and one-sided it's impossible to have a meaningful discussion at all. But hey, that's what forums are for I guess :)

RE: not sure...
By FITCamaro on 10/23/2008 6:12:22 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah I've played many MMOs released since 2002. LoTRO wasn't bad just me and my friends lost interest. I left Conan not too long ago for the same reason but also a good game (cmon...fatalities rule). SWG and WoW I left because they weren't fun. FFXI I left due to a lack of time. Guild Wars again left because of loss of interest. EVE:Online was awesome but I stupidly left to go play SWG and didn't want to start over (since there's no way to catch up in that game).

RE: not sure...
By Reclaimer77 on 10/23/2008 8:51:01 PM , Rating: 2
Eve online is just horrible. Horrible.

Its fun until you realize skill training is a static rate. Meaning , as you stated, its impossible to compete with people who have been playing longer.

Aside from that, its an MMO with one server. Which is pretty telling of how popular the game is. When I played the trial, the server was performing very poorly as well. Some zones were lagtastic, others would disconnect you.

Autofire lockon weapons and double click only ship controls made for a VERY dull and detached piloting experience IMO.

RE: not sure...
By Reclaimer77 on 10/22/2008 5:57:51 PM , Rating: 2
WoW is a game about gear collection and beating a raid boss. There's no real story that people care about.

I'm not big into the WoW storyline, but the people I know who played Warcraft 1-3 in a big way TOTALLY care about the story. Its an online game and must be treated as such. The Story is important, but in FFXI the game moves painfully slow. You spend days of your life talking to every NPC on the PLANET to get an answer to a question. FF makes the game move slower because, frankly, they don't have the game content to justify a faster pace. I heard FFXI doesn't even give you Xp for doing missions and quests. Apparently the point of the game is beating on the same crabs for hours rather than actually grouping up, having fun, and doing new EXPERIENCES. Isn't that what " XP " should be ?

Plus I don't see how you got off making those remarks about Blizzard when FF is run by SE !! Horrible customer service, bad/outdated servers, and bad coding. Customer service reps don't work on the weekends.. wtf. Good lord, they took SIX MONTHS to get Chocobo raising coded. Wth ? People were asking for RACING for 4 years.

If you want " epic " stories play Baulders gate or Diablo. I'm not paying $15 a month for a story, I'm paying to have fun and to advance my character. FFXI is the BIGGEST time sink in the MMO world. That might make you feel more involved in the epic story, but in reality they are just keeping you too busy for you to realize you're wasting your time when you COULD be having fun.

RE: not sure...
By The0ne on 10/23/2008 1:07:39 AM , Rating: 2
FFXI is a game base off of FF games using some of the familiar setups. Things are not given to the player so easily. Yes, you do have to actually do some problem solving to get quests and missions done. What's changed is the expectation of many players that just want things given to them easily. This is a game that requires cooperation and until the recent changes you really couldn't solo past level 10. That's how the game is, it isn't like WoW. Making a comparison is meaningless. What's important is whether or not you like/dislike the system being implemented. I wouldn't going about posting more comments from what you've "heard" until you give it a try. Most players don't even last to level 20 with the FFXI system. Teamwork apparently isn't their cup of tea.

Apparently the point of the game is beating on the same crabs for hours rather than actually grouping up, having fun, and doing new EXPERIENCES. Isn't that what " XP " should be ?

And your point being? It seems you lack the understanding or experience of FFXI or rather MMOs in general to be making such statements.

If you read my comments, I said companies that make good games, not companies that have great support services. However, you are correct in that FFXI's services are terrible. And what did I say about Blizzard negatively? I don't think I did at all. You disagree that SE and Blizzard don't make good games?

Fun is subjective. You're fun does not include paying attention to the story whatsoever. Other peoples fun are, and others are to just socialize without doing much. To criticize a game you lack understanding or even care to enjoy for in the first place is ludicrous. MMO's are time sinks, to single out one and claim another isn't is just too funny.

RE: not sure...
By MrPickins on 10/22/2008 6:06:16 PM , Rating: 2
The level-sync system is awesome. Best change in the game since I started at NA release.

And yes, FFXI has the most epic story of any MMO (if you chose to do each of the expansions' main missions). I'm curious to see if this new KOTR mmo can top it in that respect.

RE: not sure...
By InvertMe on 10/22/2008 3:02:32 PM , Rating: 2
FFXI has everything over WoW imo. Story, playability, reward system and community are all SO much better than WoWs.

Fit has the right of it.

RE: not sure...
By Reclaimer77 on 10/22/2008 5:23:32 PM , Rating: 2
Yes its a much better game, but for some reason they have .00000000001% of WoWs subscriber base. Makes perfect sense...

RE: not sure...
By MrPickins on 10/22/2008 10:08:53 PM , Rating: 2
A big part of it has to do with the steep learning curve. But, I like that. It helps weed out the dumb.

RE: not sure...
By Reclaimer77 on 10/22/2008 11:37:37 PM , Rating: 2
Its not a " learning curve ". Its an avalanche of MENIAL tasks. You FF guys act like you have earned a medal and are better than everyone just because you enjoy wasting your time more than others.

RE: not sure...
By The0ne on 10/23/2008 1:34:45 AM , Rating: 1
You are saying FFXI has "menial tasks?" Are you freaking serious? You are comparing this to WoW I assumed? Do you want to go to allakhazam and make comparisons between the two games and see which one actually has more "menial tasks?" I'm pretty sure I don't have to tell you which one does. In fact, I have a list of the missions and quests I've done in FFXI right in my character log if you want to run over and grab a few hundred off of WoW.

FFXI does require a learning curve, much like FF games have always been. You're not given things just like that. You have to actually do some work if you're working on missions and quests. If you want it easy most are already posted on websites. So complaining about them being timesink is useless. Take the first FF game for example. It took a while for a lot of people to figure out where Life and Nuke were. If you don't like the game mechanics you probably don't like many of the older FF games.

And the game does weed out most of the impatient, stupid and arrogant players. If you can't work with others you're not going to get far, if you don't take time to actually learn how to play the jobs you're pretty much screwed and if you are bitchy and complain that you can't level fast enough because the game is too "slow pace" then you're most likely not going to get an invite get anything done.

Here's what you do get if everyone knows what their suppose to be doing and are decent to each other. You don't end up "wasting" time, like what you've stated, and actually level up...quickly. The XP doesn't change for the normal ranges. You'll get 150-200xp and this is quite a lot at the lower levels. But then again, this just doesn't apply to FFXI does it. Not it doesn't, it's just that the FFXI gameplay requires a lot more from a player than your normal MMO.

RE: not sure...
By Reclaimer77 on 10/23/2008 5:28:28 PM , Rating: 2
Typical elitist FF player tone here. Especially this.

it's just that the FFXI gameplay requires a lot more from a player than your normal MMO.

You guys keep saying that, but nobody has explained what, exactly, does FFXI require of you that " normal " MMO players can't hack ?

Unless you mean more of your real life time, then I'll happily agree.

They could save a lot of time...
By Aloonatic on 10/22/2008 10:56:54 AM , Rating: 2
...and only bother spending time on the Han Solo model and rush the rest, as that's who most people will want to be.

Could be fun, we'll wait and see, but I am not a big fan of MMO games.

How do people have the time for these things?

Plenty seem to though (I think I've heard something about war craft being fairly popular), maybe this will change my mind about them.

RE: They could save a lot of time...
By darkhawk1980 on 10/22/2008 12:16:43 PM , Rating: 2
(I think I've heard something about war craft being fairly popular)

It's very popular but....

They have killed the game for the hardcore players, and made it entirely for the social players. Using things such as the 'recruit a friend', it's possible to level a character from 1 to 70 in less than a week by playing 8 hours a day (yay for 4x XP), meaning that even a 'casual' player could easily get to level 70 in no time. On top of that, thanks to things like the arena system (aka welfare epics), you can spend as little as 3 hours a week, and over the course of 2 months have yourself a well geared PVP character.

This has been Warcrafts downfall as of late, since those that like the PvE aspect have to spend large amounts of time farming mats, and raiding, whereas the casual player can spend small amounts of time for nearly the same benefit.

Sadly, if Wrath doesn't fix this issue quickly (and hopefully they remove Resiliance from the game or start adding it to PvE gear), I see many people leaving WoW for the many other good options that have appeared in the past 6 months.

Just my thoughts...

RE: They could save a lot of time...
By Reclaimer77 on 10/22/2008 1:56:13 PM , Rating: 2
For what ? Vanguard or Perfect World ? Lmao please.

They have killed the game for the hardcore players, and made it entirely for the social players. Using things such as the 'recruit a friend', it's possible to level a character from 1 to 70 in less than a week by playing 8 hours a day (yay for 4x XP), meaning that even a 'casual' player could easily get to level 70 in no time.

I wouldn't actually classify spending 8 hours a DAY as " casual ". I don't even work 8 hours a day every day.

Your heavily biased. Just because YOU were in the top 2% pre BC doesn't mean the game was fine. The game before Burning Crusade, frankly, sucked. 40 man raids ? Huge timesink and honestly not accessible to most players.

You don't think Blizzard sat down, crunched numbers, and noticed that the MASSIVE majority of their players weren't even seeing most of the end game content ? In a game where you pay 15$ a month, thats a huge problem.

So basically you can cater to the " hardcore ", or you can make a game where you can still be " hardcore " but the MAJORITY can actually enjoy the game as well. I think you are living in a fantasy world if the former is going to retain more subscribers than the latter.

I see many people leaving WoW for

Lots of people leave WoW. But they'll be back. They always come back. I don't know anyone who has " quit " that didn't show back up a few weeks, or months, later.

By FITCamaro on 10/22/2008 2:26:00 PM , Rating: 3
My best friend has been WoW free for over a year. Thank god.

By WTFiSJuiCE on 10/22/2008 4:17:11 PM , Rating: 2
And you think that the majority of players are seeing the endgame content now that BC is here? Its still based on raids for gear and endgame, there's been no change except now you have arena gear and a higher lvl cap....2 words, "woo...hoo..."

RE: They could save a lot of time...
By rdeegvainl on 10/22/2008 10:58:52 PM , Rating: 2
For what ? Vanguard or Perfect World ? Lmao please.

When you leave a game, you don't have to pick up a different one. Besides, there has been alot of people coming to vanguard lately. ;)

RE: They could save a lot of time...
By InvertMe on 10/23/2008 2:24:01 PM , Rating: 2
by rdeegvainl on October 22, 2008 at 10:58 PM

Besides, there has been alot of people coming to vanguard lately. ;)

lol are you sure about that? I played Vanguard through most of the beta and for about 2 months after release. I couldn't take the bugs and continual nerfing of the game any longer.

I tried again about a year later and it was in the exact same boat as when I left it and only getting worse!

While I would be thrilled to see things improving for Vanguard I just can't see it happening. Horrible management coupled with a shoe string budget don't tend to make good products.

RE: They could save a lot of time...
By Reclaimer77 on 10/23/2008 5:57:04 PM , Rating: 2
Vanguard is already dead. It just doesn't know it yet.

By rdeegvainl on 10/24/2008 3:24:08 AM , Rating: 2
LOL, maybe to you, but they say the same about EQ, and that is still going.

By rdeegvainl on 10/24/2008 3:23:17 AM , Rating: 2
hmm. well since I've played since release... I know all about the issues it has had, and yeah, it is having a lot of people come as of late. They just had a massive update, and introduced the 14 day trial. It is having quite the positive effect on population levels. Many people who used to play are liking what they see, and are resubscribing, and alot of new blood too. It's not what it was at release, a buggy, slow game. And while it may not be your cup of tea, others quite enjoy it.

RE: They could save a lot of time...
By walk2k on 10/22/2008 1:23:29 PM , Rating: 2
What they don't tell you is that over 50% of WOW subscribers are in China and most of them are bots farming gold to sell for real money.

RE: They could save a lot of time...
By The0ne on 10/23/2008 1:41:23 AM , Rating: 2
And Blizzard does nothing about them either. I've run into so many botters and hackers on WoW it's not even funny. How can you compete with someone who runs automated killing mobs over and over a specific pattern, collecting resources or even zooming by quickly gathering treasure chests. The last one was pretty funny though as he got caught and died :P A level1 Orc in Feralas opening chest. Umm, ok. :)

I'll believe it when i see it
By kattanna on 10/22/2008 10:50:52 AM , Rating: 5
this MMO will emphasize innovative story and character development

i have heard that line many times from other MMO's at this stage of the development.. but along the way, it doesnt seem to make it.

RE: I'll believe it when i see it
By InvertMe on 10/22/2008 11:22:55 AM , Rating: 2
If anyone can do it right it's Bioware. From what I read their approach is spot on and I expect nothing but a quality product.

Really (imo) the big downfall in MMOs is people who are completely unable to play a social game and want their MMO experience to be all solo. What's the point? The whold point of a MMO is to group with other people and do things that are not able to be completed by an individual.

Well that and the instant gratification crowd - if it takes more than a few minutes to obtian X item they cry on the forums about how hard the game is and then insult those who worked to obtain their X item.

MMO communities drove me to play single player games exclusively. I still have a soft spot for FFXI but I don't see playing another MMO for a long time if ever.

RE: I'll believe it when i see it
By FITCamaro on 10/22/2008 12:13:35 PM , Rating: 2
Read IGNs article on the game. They will have a heavy solo component that is much like the single player games.

RE: I'll believe it when i see it
By mcnabney on 10/22/2008 5:32:13 PM , Rating: 2
Not everyone has hours and hours to waste on an MMO. I have never bothered with them because I have a family and a life. I get my gaming in small bites, an hour here or there or maybe a few hours if my wife is out with the kids on a weekend afternoon. A game that caters to people that spend as much time playing each week as I spend working just isn't going to fit in. There is no 'save' button in social engagements and teaming events. I don't mind them being a part of a game, but my friends that do MMO pretty much describe it as the only way to play.
Seriously, Bioware should just make KOTOR3 as a solo adventure and have the ending open up into a MMO world. That way both sides win.

RE: I'll believe it when i see it
By WTFiSJuiCE on 10/22/2008 7:47:03 PM , Rating: 2
You're looking at MMOs from the hardcore aspect bro. That's not how everyone plays. It is feasible to log onto an MMO and play for an hour here and an hour there. Whether you spend it accomplishing something is completely up to you, however that applies to any game you might play.

People who spend all of their time chasing the people who race to get the best gear aren't really playing the game to play it; they're playing the game to race other players regardless of what the game is about.

It truly depends on ur playstyle though. Personally, I relied on my solo adventure skills and the help of a friend who was trying out the same game to explore my first mmo in 2003 (guess which game it is and you get a cookie). He was much better at the social aspect as he had prior mmo xp via Ultima Online whereas I was fresh fish. Needless to say, I explored around on my own while keeping in touch w/ my friend (who was already working his way into a guild and meeting different people) and when I felt the time was right to explore the social aspect more, I joined the guild as well. A lot of times I ended up hanging out at the Guild player city with other guild members and got to know them. Sometimes we got a group together and went on some hunts or a dungeon run or went resource gathering for one of our merchants.

I don't have a wife or children, but I did have work and college and even though that might not be equal on demands being asked of your time, my point stands that I didn't always have hours and hours to play.

Needless to say, MMOs are commitments of a varying nature and they will take up some of your time although it is completely up to you (and your family) how much it will take.

*Disclaimer* MMOs can possibly lessen the number of SP games you might buy or play. In some rare cases, side effects may include cases of emo-cramps, gank addiction, sociopathic cantina spamming, shuttle bug teleports to 0,0, and Force Slot unlocks*

(*near 100% mortality rate)

RE: I'll believe it when i see it
By FITCamaro on 10/22/2008 10:37:59 PM , Rating: 2
Why don't you wait for the game to come out before you pass judgement. And you don't have to give up your life to play an MMO. Decide on a day (or two) you want to play, and tell your wife thats the day. Keep up with your other commitments as normal. Many people get their kids involved too as a way to bond.

A co-worker of mine and her husband both play WoW together.

By Smilin on 10/22/2008 11:23:34 AM , Rating: 5
So Lucas gives PC gamers the middle finger with force unleashed and then says, "but come pay me a monthly fee to play this new game".


RE: Lucas
By DarkElfa on 10/22/2008 5:04:28 PM , Rating: 3
This is BS, we've been screaming for years about Kotor 3 and instead they give us this crappy MMO garbage instead.

I have never and will never pay a monthly fee to play a game.

RE: Lucas
By WTFiSJuiCE on 10/22/2008 6:57:56 PM , Rating: 3
tread carefully youngling. He feeds on your tears.

Thank you.
By FITCamaro on 10/22/2008 12:08:59 PM , Rating: 3
Been waiting for this announcement for 3 years. They say they've been doing the writing for the game for 3 years so I don't think lack of content will be an issue. My only fear with the game is that EA owns BioWare now so they'll try to push it out before its ready.

I also do hope they don't allow just anyone to be a Jedi. Honestly I'd be happy if they didn't allow anyone to be one. Makes it difficult to balance the game then. You can't make the Jedi players invincible to non-Jedi but if everyone is one it creates a situation where the story of the universe is thrown out of wack.

RE: Thank you.
By WTFiSJuiCE on 10/22/2008 4:39:27 PM , Rating: 2
From one ex-SWG player to another, I wholeheartedly agree with that statement, but it is true that one can't have a star wars story that is 100% completely devoid of the force. I did find your earlier statement of having NPC Jedi interesting since I did like the Guild Wars experiment w/ NPCs.

It really is difficult to balance Jedi and non-Jedi. Honestly, it all comes down to what to do with the Jedi and Sith classes.

There's been the argument of needing to have them be subject to higher penalties for players casting themselves as higher-risk classes like a Jeedai. Having them implemented from the beginning and as an original part of the system helps a lot more with balance than implementing them later because we all know that future classes are usually OP at first and then power gouged later resulting in a never ending tweak that spreads to every other class and never fixes anything.

Honestly I think we need to get out of the never ending cycle of level based systems since it makes players focus more on getting the next level instead of focusing on the story and the character's impact.

I actually enjoy WoW's story plot but I never actually enjoyed it ingame. It wasn't until I went to the website and actually read the story that I finally got to appreciate it and it really is a good story but all I cared about was "get to the next level, how much xp do i have left, how many quests should i save up and turn in all at once", all day...

In SWG, i wandered around Corellia for an entire month and mastered Marksman, that might not be much of an accomplishment but I had a blast exploring the world, camping out in a tent, and shootin stuf.

RE: Thank you.
By Heero on 10/22/2008 4:44:40 PM , Rating: 2

My only fear with the game is that EA owns BioWare now so they'll try to push it out before its ready.

"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."


RE: Thank you.
By FITCamaro on 10/22/2008 5:09:32 PM , Rating: 2
The dark side has cookies.

The Old Republic
By BenSkywalker on 10/23/2008 9:04:20 AM , Rating: 2
I'm seeing several comments from MMO players, and a few comments from BioWare fans, but not many who venture into both. As one who falls into both categories I am looking forward to this title to a near painful degree. I saw mention of the only way a Star Wars MMO would work is if one of the top PC devs were to handle it- this is Bioware- NWN, BG, KoTOR, Mass Effect- being very serious Blizzard is a group of second rate hacks by comparison- they are not in the same league as Bioware.

The issue of easy Jedi/Sith vs difficult- this time era was dominated by the battles of the Jedi and Sith, outside of some Mandalorian fits every now and again. Making Jedi/Sith difficult given the time period involved would be extremely difficult to justify. With all that was going on, even the least promising children in the Republic who were force sensitive were recruited- thousands were killed during the initial Sith expansion. Due to these issues, there must be a very high concentration of them to be accurate to the time period.

That said, there are numerous different ways that you could encourage people to play non Jedi. Anyone who has played through KoTOR knows that for the most part bringing 3 Jedi in your party isn't the ideal situation most of the time, this can further be made a larger factor by restricting Jedi's to professions that only further their own skills(removing a great deal of income potential), you could also limit what they are allowed to own(no personal transportation as an example)- there are numerous ways you could encourage people to play non force users, and I'm sure Bioware will have some of them in place(although not too many, as has been stated- this time era is all about the battle between the Sith and Jedi armies).

I'm sure they won't make some of the huge mistakes that Square made(as has been previously mentioned- nigh impossible to make progress after level 10 by yourself- staggering how bad that design choice was), or that Blizzard is making now(profound changes to gameplay mechanics- that ALWAYS hurts a lot, normally ends up killing a game but I'm sure Blizz will weather the storm), or that Mythic is currently making(with their nigh pure PvP bend the lack of PvE content at all is horribly lacking- this is a mistake comparable to Square's and will enormously limit their player base by demanding people play one way). Obviously Sony isn't capable of licking Bioware's feet, they aren't close to that level of talent, so ToR won't be nearly the travest from start to finish that Galaxies was. I'm sure Bioware has done their homework and figured out what can stay for MMO gameplay, what needs to go and what needs to be brought in in a meaningful manner.

Square tried to do some of the things Bioware is indicating they are going for- but first off Bioware throttles Square senseless when it comes to quality of story telling, second off Square made the utterly moronic choice of requiring multiple players to make any sort of progress in the game- and then made it so you couldn't chose your server to join your friends so you could play together(seriously, the most inept design decissions I think I have ever seen in a MMO). They may have fixed some of this by now, but turn off half a million people in the MMO space before you have half a million happy customers and you are never going to make it to the big time.

For those Bioware loyal upset that they are making a MMO, I wasn't a big fan of MMOs in general for a long time. Once you play a decent one though, you start to realize you are actually getting a pretty good deal. To use WoW as a general example, Since TBC launched they launched several content patches that offered more gameplay time then most games do in their entirety. That isn't something you paid extra for, just part of your monthly fee. Not to mention, the level of content available to you in a MMO utterly dwarfs anything you see in a single player game, by a rather huge margin. Warhammer which is the new kid on the block and has yet to start getting its' own content patches has probably, conservatively, ten times the gameplay that a typical Elder Scroll game has. It is an entirely different beast then your normal game, and really should be looked at as such. Not saying it will end up being your cup of tea, but for the Bioware fans who are very upset this is a MMO, I would ask you to simply give it a shot for one month. I would wager that the majority of you would be surprised just how much you end up liking it.

RE: The Old Republic
By The0ne on 10/23/2008 10:32:04 AM , Rating: 2
While I do share your opinion about BioWare making good games, it's a sad fact that their games don't account for much sales due to whatever. The end result as I've stated in my first post is the lackluster performance of their games to "addict" many players. I like NW. The engine from the first one was really nice and the characters were well done when you zoomed in on them. The story was compelling and had you progressing.

being very serious Blizzard is a group of second rate hacks by comparison- they are not in the same league as Bioware.

Square tried to do some of the things Bioware is indicating they are going for- but first off Bioware throttles Square senseless when it comes to quality of story telling,

Those comments about Blizzard being second rate and SE not having talents to produced a good story is moronic. You're lucky not to get bash by fans of both companies. They are top notch companies that DOES produce quality games whether you like them or not. You are definitely in the minority for these two cases.

I'm not even sure you know the history of these companies to making making such statements about Blizzard, and SE. Blizzard as a second rate hacks by comparison? What the hell do you mean. Do you mean they are bad programmers? Do you mean they just suck in general? Or do you mean they are hackers but second rate ones compare to 1st rate hackers from Bioware? "Seriously" wtf do you mean. Is this just your opinion bashing Blizzard and SE or are you going to accept that fact that they've sold millions upon countless millions of games because poeple like them and people like me see the quality in them even though I don't end up playing them. Do you even know the history of what the company Blizzard and it's old employees went through at all? You name one piece of Blizzard software that didn't do well in sales. Even Lost Vikings did well, and if not mistaken, better than NW. Second rate, please. Leave this discussion to those that actually know what they are talking about whether that's from a business perspective, animation, gameplay, or what have you.

As for SE, Aerith fans will surely devour you for having said that if they even bother to stop laughing from your comments. You don't get worldwide pleas and cries because a company suck at story-telling.

second off Square made the utterly moronic choice of requiring multiple players to make any sort of progress in the game- and then made it so you couldn't chose your server to join your friends so you could play together(seriously, the most inept design decissions I think I have ever seen in a MMO). They may have fixed some of this by now, but turn off half a million people in the MMO space before you have half a million happy customers and you are never going to make it to the big time.

By requiring multiple players I think you mean to say have a party to progress. Yes the game does require teamwork and parties/alliances to work. It requires it very early on as solo-ing are still not options for many of the jobs. And you think this makes FFXI bad because? Name a MMO that did not require a party to get certain things done. Name 1, just 1.

As for the random server, I'll have to agree it didn't work out like they wanted it to. Sure it took loads off of certain servers but as you said you couldn't play with your friends. The flip side to not having this is having all the Japanese players on a server, all the EU on another, all the Spanish on one, all the US (scary) on another and China on all of them (of course, for RTM). The others might not do this but the Japanese players will surely high tail out of the English populated servers. I don't blame them actually but I don't like the idea behind it.

Bashing the FF gameplay, again, is meaningless. That's like saying you didn't like any of the retro FFXI games or the upcoming FFXIII (seem like it from pics hehe) where battles are fought in a similar fashion. So if you and others are saying this is a waste of time, stop playing those type of games! Apparently the millions of other players don't give a crap what you are saying because they are enjoying them immensely. But if what you mean to say is that you rather not party until endgame then stick with WoW or other similar type of games.

FFXI was not designed for players to be able to solo efficiently. The game mechanics are too different to even allow this. Why complain about a game that you know was not even designed like others? The best MP regen you can have per skill is 4. You're not going to get hundreds upon hundreds like WoW or other MMOs. And instead of stacking hundreds to thousands of stat points, it only requires small numbers to make a difference. Why in the world would you have that much bonuses in the first place? Eventually it'll unbalance the jobs due to it's wide variance that players are able to obtain.

RE: The Old Republic
By BenSkywalker on 10/23/2008 11:04:09 AM , Rating: 1
Blizzard is a group of second rate hacks in comparison to Bioware- without a doubt. I am extremely well versed in everything that Blizzard has done over the years, if you wish to discuss it at length I would be more then happy to partake in that. What Blizzard has never remotely approached is the ability to build a game that's level of quality can match Bioware's typical title on all fronts- not even remotely close. Blizz makes some amusing, albeit it very simple, titles that appeal to masses looking for a basic gaming experience with pretty much no thought required. This goes up to and includes WoW(two toons in the T6 club- I speak from rather extensive experience). As far as the history of the company- it shouldn't ever matter when taking their bodies of work into consideration on merit. Take all the games Blizz has sold combined and put it up against Mario. The plumber dwarfs them, does that mean his games are by default better? Not even remotely close- so the sales end of the equation just doesn't make sense.

Square/Enix and story? Are you serious? Aerith, let's get into a convuluted mess about a bunch of clones and then have the key to saving the world being the breeding Chocobos so you can get into the cave to learn the spell so one of the clones can drop another one.... yeah, fine piece of storytelling there. I have been playing Square games since they first came to the states, even imported the versions that never came over here long before the PSX days and all the nublet fans FFVII brought in. I'm an even bigger fan of Enix, DQ was the best title of the last generation IMO on any system period(and I owned them all). That doesn't mean I confuse storyline with gameplay. Bioware excels as they blend them all together in amazing fashion- nothing like Square's let's have a cutscene about a horribly orchestrated travesty of a story that looks so pretty we will get people emotionally involved.

You haven't seen me bash on FF's core gameplay mechanics. If they translated them over without fault there wouldn't be an issue. The problem is you can't reasonably do anything as many classes without support from others starting at a very low level. I don't know how many times my black mage made it back to a town himself because I didn't have a phoenix down on me and my rezzers were dead. In FFXI you can not do that. About 40% of MMO players pretty much always play by themselves, the overwhelming majority split time between playing by themselves and playing with others. Because Square set the game up requiring you to play with strangers they alienated a great deal of people right off. I didn't join a guild in WoW until I hit level 60(60 was the cap at the time), I wanted to know what I was doing and get a solid grasp for the game under my belt before I started partaking in any serious group structure. FFXI does not allow this in a realistic fashion. Debating the core mechanics versus WoW in the end fails as they removed the majority of people from ever even tryinig the game in a serious fashion.

Saying that Square could not make the game in a fashion to support a single class being able to handle things, even if it is with some trouble, would simply have me holding up a copy of FFI. Soloing with a black mage was hell, but it was FAR more reasonable then it is in FFXI. Nothing says they need to be like WoW, but having an approach that allows people to solo basic trash outside of dungeons is worlds different then making demi gods.

RE: The Old Republic
By The0ne on 10/23/2008 12:48:20 PM , Rating: 2
So therefore I stand justified by what you've said in your first paragraph. Thanks. As far as second rate, I still think you're still confused. Do you mean from a business perspective, a game perspective? WTF do you mean. Here, I'll try to explain wtf is going on. Blizzard games, while simple, had always appeal to the mass. This is a good busines decision. Does that mean they skimp on the techs that goes into the game itself? Not entirely. Without some of the Blizzard games we wouldn't be playing games such as FFXI, WoW, Conan, LOTR and so forth. We wouldn't even be discussing this issue at all. WoW borrows heavily from D2 and when Diablo was released were there games comparable to the gameplay and graphics? I don't think so. Now Bioware has had it's share of good games as well. I enjoyed MDK, the first one, and thought it was pretty good. I then play NW and love it. The engine was very good for it's time and I had wish other companies could have use it, which a few did without much success either.

The history of the company does matter. How can you even think to discuss this in detail and at length with me by making these idiotic comments. In short, Vivendi screwed Blizzard to some extent, some of the original programmers left and made their own company. What do you think this will do to a company when talented programmers leave the company? Poorer quality games. But in Blizzard's case they still had enough programmers, enough support and enough sense to milk players. You seem to think they've skimp on the animation, graphics, gameplay, storyline and so forth and you're right to some extent, but to blantly called the companies which have enrich millions of players with great gameplay, animations, CGs, or what have you is stupid.

So you're making fun of SE's storytelling that's different than D&D style gaming. Hmm, interesting. How do you think the characters in NW come about? How do you think any game character came about? Pathethic argument. You would think you were actually making these comments in the sense that you really believe the characters from Bioware are somehow "real."

Bioware excels as they blend them all together in amazing fashion- nothing like Square's let's have a cutscene about a horribly orchestrated travesty of a story that looks so pretty we will get people emotionally

This is the point of storytelling! It's to get you involved. You rather have a nice package that doesn't get you involved? People don't get all worked up and even cry because the story sucked or the gameplay sucked. Whatever gave you that idea. The simple fact here is that the gameplay and story-telling of SE has drawn millions and millions of fans while worthy company like BioWare has not. Do you see me bashing Bioware? BioWare has talented programmers and their games are good...but they aren't selling for one reason or another. If one of their games had a "OMG, that guy killed her" type of sceneario that would jumpstart millions of players it would be a different discussion. But sadly, their game hasn't done this and thus I don't think the new Star War MMO is going to pan out. LucasArts is the same. You're discussing history that is already well known not to have been successful. Give it up. There's no bashing of companies on my side. There's just the past record of the companies to speak for themselves.

I'm not using the gameplay mechanics of any of the mentioned MMO other than to say people have different taste and there are different MMOs to suit their needs. Is this not clear enough or what? If you don't like the FF type of gameply and set of rules DON'T play it. It works fine for those that like the system and it works really well when people know how to play the job and learn the game mechanics. You come on here and bash these companies because in your view they suck. They don't suck or else you wouldn't be saying 'I'm an even bigger fan of Enix, DQ was the best title of the last generation IMO on any system period(and I owned them all)." You honestly think for one minute that you can hate these companies that much and yet imported and owned all those games? What's making you come back to them all? Please.

And yes you do bash on the gameplay mechanics. Check your comments, especially that last paragraph. If you haven't understood already, FFXI is a game that REQUIRES partying. WTF are you complaining about knowing this. If you want to solo to 60, this isn't the game for you. Go somewhere else and take your "SE sucks" with you. In fact, do us all a favor and sell your copies of FF, DQs and any other worthless sci-fi creations to those that truely love them.

What a waste of time discussing and pointing your stupid, pointless flaws.

RE: The Old Republic
By BenSkywalker on 10/24/2008 8:09:41 AM , Rating: 2
What do I mean by second rate hacks?

Blizzard's gameplay is clearly inferior, their storytelling is clearly inferior, their game mechancis are clearling inferior, their level design is shockingly inferior. Blizzard is a company that got themselves stuck in a certain era and can't break free. They may have been great at one point, but that time has passed. Their contributions outside of mass market appeal in the MMO space has been marginal at best. Were games comparable to Diablo when it was released? Absolutely, they just didn't have the mass market appeal that Diablo did in the PC space. Hack&Slash gameplay mechanics with some RPG spicing isn't anything remotely new, and Blizzard has never even tried to pretend their graphics are close to the high end for their time era- but I in no way knock them for that. The original MDK was done by Dave Perry's crew at Interplay btw, not Bioware.

You bring up the NWN engine and I think that is a great example of how Bioware evolves with the technology. NWN's method of telling the story was, even for the timeframe, significantly less then optimal, but it was an easier to manage system then the more elaborate ways other companies were using. You fire up a current Bioware title and while you can see how it evolved, it was a MASSIVE level of evolution which is something Blizz has failed to do in absolute terms. You directly interact and steer the story in a Bioware game in a way that suits your character, all voice acted with large selections and hundreds of different branches possible. Compare this with Blizz's mentality of 'we'll let someone else handle the story and throw it on a fan site' or Square's(much better then Blizz's IMO) fantastic displays of CGI Bioware's story is actually an evolving part of the game. You take any Blizz or Square title and tell people where you are at by where you are in the story, doesn't work like that with more recent Bioware titles.

As far as gameplay mechanics go- Blizz is fast approaching the poorest in MMO history. Every class is being equalized at everything, and most classes at this point are spam one button over and over and you auto win with WOTLK. Blizz has gone downhill an enormous amount in the last several years relative to their peers. The fact that they used to release titles that were of comparable quality to the top offerings in their genre means little today. Rareware and Silicon Knights used to also produce some absolutely stellar games, but time continued on and they didn't evolve with it. Blizz is doing the same thing.

As far as storytelling vs Square- you are an active participant in the story, you change the story. It is interactive entertainment. Also, there can be no doubt that Square's storytelling is horrid at best- their presentation OTOH is the best in the business. Some people like that style of entertainment, which I can honestly understand, but holding up FFVII as en example of their top storyline just goes to show what it is that entices people- Sephiroth looks soooo bad ass(which admittedly, he does ;) ).

You talk about SE's storytelling getting them millions of fans and Bioware's doesn't? Square and Enix each had several millions of fans prior to FFVII- and Enix in particular has never been very story driven(and DQ still outsells FF in Japan by a healthy margin)- they got fans from gameplay. This has slacked in recent years, as has their sales. Bioware, as you obviously haven't noticed- IS selling millions of titles now. Again, an evolutionary thing. As they improved the crafting of their medium, their sales saw dramatic increases.

<q>If one of their games had a "OMG, that guy killed her" type of sceneario that would jumpstart millions of players it would be a different discussion.</q>

I don't want to ruin it, but play KoTOR. It has a storyline point that you will likely remember much better then someone getting killed in a game(because that never happens ;) ). You can try and say this is Lucasarts, but until you play through the first KoTOR you really will not be able to understand why people are going to have absolute faith that Bioware is going to be allowed to do whatever they want to the game.

My apologies for not making my last post clear on one point- I don't bash on the non XI FF games ;) I still think of FFVI as one of my personal favorite games of all time(VII was a HUGE step down in gameplay quality, but still better then most RPGs).

I have thousands of games for almost every system ever made- am a huge fan of Enix(DQ still the best overall sustained RPG series by a LONG shot IMO) and am extremely well versed in all of these games and ther mechanics. Difference is, I'm not a particular fanboy of any company. As soon as they mess up a game, I have no problem calling them out at all. If they start falling behind eveyrone else, they are absolutely fair game. I don't make excuses for anyone.

You do truly have a pompous air in your posting style I will say- telling me to sell my stuff? You played one Bioware game once and are acting like an expert- one of us in this discussion has extensive times with both sides- and it isn't you.

In honor of the good news...
By JasonMick on 10/22/2008 10:47:41 AM , Rating: 5
"Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope. Statement: This definition, I am told, is subject to interpretation. Obviously, love is a matter of odds. Not many meatbags could make such a shot, and fewer would derive love from it. Yet for me, love is knowing your target, putting them in your targeting reticle, and together, achieving a singular purpose, against statistically long odds."


RE: In honor of the good news...
By jadeskye on 10/22/2008 11:59:36 AM , Rating: 2
forget a 6 my friend, you deserve a 7 lol

Lucas Arts.... Junk
By snownpaint on 10/22/2008 5:47:58 PM , Rating: 2
Like so many games from that crumb-bum company.. They will take a good idea, wrap it in a halfwit storyline, slap it together with poor player control, unbalanced player type, and fire the programmers during the last parts of production/tweaking to save money, leaving annoying bugs..

Lucas sucks a raw egg..

RE: Lucas Arts.... Junk
By BenSkywalker on 10/23/2008 11:11:13 AM , Rating: 2
Bioware is making the game, EA is publishing it. EA may not have the best track record, but they allowed Mythic to do what they needed to with WAR. From the looks of things, Lucas is providing the license and that's pretty much it.

"We’re Apple. We don’t wear suits. We don’t even own suits." -- Apple CEO Steve Jobs

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