DailyTech - Star Trek Online to Boldly Go Where No MMO Has Gone Before

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Software Star Trek Online to Boldly Go Where No MMO Has Gone Before
Jansen Ng (Blog) - January 27, 2010 9:34 AM

155 comment(s) - last by sdfasdgdhasdf.. on Jan 30 at 12:55 PM

Fulfill your Star Trek fantasies

The Star Trek television series may have inspired millions to seek out careers in the science and technology fields, but making a good Star Trek game has been hit or miss. Even excellent Star Trek games like Bridge Commander and Klingon Academy may not be profitable compared to something like Modern Warfare 2. However, there is a lucrative fanbase of several hundred million Trekkies (or Trekkers) out there for the right product.

The folks at Cryptic Studios, makers of City of Heroes, City of Villains, and Champions Online, think that they have the right formula for Star Trek Online. The Massively Multiplayer Online (MMO) game officially launches next week, on Tuesday, February 2, 2010 in North America and February 5, 2010 across Europe and Australia. Players who pre-order the game will also receive a code for a "head start", allowing game play beginning this Friday at 1PM EST. There are also additional exclusives that retailers are offering in order to encourage pre-order sales.

The large intellectual property base of the Star Trek universe would seem to lend itself well to an MMO, similar to how LucasArts' Star Wars Galaxies or The Old Republic. Star Trek Online takes place in the year 2409, in the prime continuity rather than the alternate universe branched off in the latest Star Trek film.

"In Star Trek Online, the Star Trek universe will appear for the first time on a truly massive scale. In this massively multiplayer online game from Cryptic Studios, players can pioneer their own destiny as Captain of a Federation starship. Or, they can become a Klingon Warlord and expand the Empire to the far reaches of the galaxy. Players will have the opportunity to visit iconic locations from the popular Star Trek fiction, reach out to unexplored star systems, and make contact with new alien species. With Episode Missions, every moment spent playing Star Trek Online will feel like a new Star Trek episode in which you are the star. Immerse yourself in the future of the Trek universe as it moves into the 25th century: a time of shifting alliances and new discoveries," wrote Cryptic Studios in a statement.

Star Trek Online will have different missions in space, on planets, and even inside other starships, with different missions focusing on exploration and combat. Players pick either Tactical, Engineering, or Science careers and have the opportunity to work their way up through the ranks from Ensign to Admiral. STO has a heavy focus on customization, with multiple ship types and the ability to change parts and colors. Additionally, anyone can create their own species in Star Trek Online, as well as customize the look of their avatar’s uniform and appearance.

Game publisher Atari was so impressed by early concepts of the game that it went ahead and bought Cryptic Studios in December of 2008.

"Star Trek Online is poised to become the ultimate Star Trek gaming experience," said Jim Wilson, CEO of Atari at the time. "Throughout the last four decades, Star Trek has been a mainstay in pop culture, influencing legions of fans through television, film, and more. Star Trek Online opens a whole new chapter and expands upon this incredible universe in 2010."

Cryptic wasn't the first company to try and develop a Star Trek MMO. Perpetual Entertainment started development of the first version of Star Trek Online in 2004, but ran out of funds trying to develop STO and God & Heroes at the same time. Cryptic saw an opportunity and negotiated a deal with CBS Paramount, the owners of the Star Trek license. The company choose to begin their own development program rather than use assets from Perpetual.

Players will have to subscribe to the game in addition to buying a digital or retail copy of the game. Cryptic is offering special 12-month and Lifetime subscription rates for those who pre-order before February 2, after which new (and higher) rates will apply.

Subscription Pricing	USD	CAD	GBP	EUR	DKK
1-Month Recurring	14.99	16.49	8.99	12.99	82.45
3-Month Recurring	41.97	46.17	25.17	35.97	230.84
6-Month Recurring	77.94	85.73	46.14	65.94	428.67
12-Month Special	119.99	125.99
Lifetime Special	239.99	251.99

DailyTech will have more coverage from the Open Beta program and Head Start.

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MMORPGs and pricing.

By Aloonatic on 1/27/2010 9:45:46 AM , Rating: 4

Wow, am I the only person who thinks that those price are insane? To make it worth while you'll need to invest a lot of time. Are these prices similar to WoW and other MMORPGs?

Seems like it could be a great game though, but I just can't see myself justifying these sorts of costs (inc initial purchase too) but good luck to those who love these things.

Not for me though :-D

RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By NaughtyGeek on 1/27/2010 9:55:43 AM , Rating: 2

Their pricing model is very similar to WoW. Wish I could get a lifetime WoW subscription for that price.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By Souka on 1/27/2010 2:28:16 PM , Rating: 3

I just find it really hard to swallow... buying a copy of the game..$60 and buying a lifetime subscription $240... all BEFORE even playing the game....

So if I want to try it... buy game for $60 +1month subsription $15... $75 just to try a game? ouch.

But hey... $300 is nothing if your like many who will play probably a hundred hours a month...or more.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By porkpie on 1/27/2010 2:29:40 PM , Rating: 2

"So if I want to try it... buy game for $60 +1month subsription $15... $75 just to try a game? ouch."

First month's free. You don't pay the monthly fees till later.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By Souka on 1/27/2010 3:48:08 PM , Rating: 2

makes sense to toss in 1st month free....like the 10day free WOW.. oh but wait, do you need to shell out money to play WOW? nope.

I wonder if this SS will allow a free trial for 1month...if I like it, I would have no problems forking over $300 to buy a game I'm going to sit at for 2000 hours a year....cheap entertainment right?

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By Souka on 1/27/2010 4:50:31 PM , Rating: 2

Sorry... SS = ST as in StarTrek

Also, I think they should toss in a copy, or %50 off, if you buy the life time. Heck, maybe %25 off the software for a 1yr subscription?

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By XINFU4 on 1/27/10, Rating: -1

RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By elgueroloco on 1/27/2010 4:17:07 PM , Rating: 2

You can play WoW on a 10-day trial for free before you even buy the game, plus 30 days free subscription after you buy it. You don't have a pay a single penny to find out if you like the game or not.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By lightfoot on 1/28/2010 12:36:54 PM , Rating: 2

If I recall correctly, that is not the pricing model that World of Warcraft used when it first launched. I could be wrong... But how old is WoW now? 6 years?

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By ZHENDHIDE4 on 1/28/10, Rating: -1

RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By amanojaku on 1/27/2010 9:56:40 AM , Rating: 3

After playing WoW for a year... These prices are insane. Maybe Star Trek Online is a better game, but WoW is boring. I'm not sure I'm going to make it to 80(85?).

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By Iaiken on 1/27/2010 11:51:07 AM , Rating: 2

Probably because you are playing it like a single player game... In which case, yes, it REALLY blows ass...

On the other hand, if you have/make friends with toons of a similar level and play through all the dungeons and otherwise be social, it's not so bad...

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By Denigrate on 1/27/10, Rating: -1

RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By Ammohunt on 1/27/2010 2:37:40 PM , Rating: 3

so what you are saying is WoW is an expensive Second Life clone? the OP was right WoW is boring as is many of the newer MMO's that make the games retardedly simple.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By LordanSS on 1/27/2010 3:27:40 PM , Rating: 2

I recently quit WoW mostly because that game, and it's players, are so aggravating that it's just too much.

The game is EASY AS HELL, there are addons that tell you pretty much everything you need to know, from where to go for quests to even what the raid/boss battles are all about. Oh, boss is dropping flames on the ground! Get out of the damn flames! O.O

Too many players, and the absolute brunt of them are complete idiots who don't know how to play. That's what you get when you dumb down gameplay so much to appeal to the masses: the masses are worthless. I got fed up with all my guilds (even moved servers once to try and find a better place) and even the random pickup raids, the total lack of organization and skill.

I miss the days of old EverQuest, where you actually had to be good to get somewhere. No, I don't miss the 8+ hour raids in NToV, Vex Thal (for multiple days) or the stupid 12 hour event that was Rathe Council. But the fact that the community of players, albeit being much smaller that WoW's, was comprised of more skilled people.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By Icehearted on 1/27/2010 7:55:30 PM , Rating: 2

I'm a veteran WoW player (though I never beta tested and such), and I can tell you that it's gotten easier than it used to be. Originally, the game was not only harder, but tedious... really really tedious (not that that's changed).

Check out the Druid Flight form Quest (TBC) to see what I mean. Originally it took loads of grinding and hard work, and now they practically hand it to the player with a nice big bow.

Still, the game is tedious, boring, and the social community is largely awful. Honestly, the grinding and the jackass players were why I left. I realized that after years of playing this game I'd invested hundreds of dollars into being frustrated, poorly rewarded, and honestly angry 99% of the time because there's literally nothing to do unless you personally know the players you're with. Otherwise guilds are useless nests of bickering control freaks and PUGS will get you nowhere, which is a shame because Blizzard demands you do one or the other to get anywhere in the game.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By Reclaimer77 on 1/28/2010 9:21:41 PM , Rating: 2

No. They made the content more accessible to everyone.

I love all you people who say the game is "too easy", and then I look you up on the Armory and see you weren't able to complete the hardest content in the game.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By drebo on 1/27/2010 10:00:04 AM , Rating: 5

It's completely relative. $15/mo is two drinks at a good bar. Which gets you more entertainment?

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By Spivonious on 1/27/10, Rating: -1

RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By Griswold on 1/27/2010 12:06:43 PM , Rating: 4

He isnt talking about some redneck tavern like Bob's, you know.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By Denigrate on 1/27/2010 1:38:50 PM , Rating: 4

No, Spin's talking about a regular bar in any college town. Only a moron, ie Apple product purchaser, would pay high fees only to say they had done so.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By porkpie on 1/27/2010 1:46:18 PM , Rating: 2

The counter to that is: only a moron would spend their entire life getting thrown up on by college students, just to avoid paying a little extra per drink at a nicer bar.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By Denigrate on 1/27/2010 3:36:54 PM , Rating: 1

So you are one of the morons who pays $7 for a $4 drink? Plenty of non-frat boy bars to hit in any town where there are no hicks and a good cocktail is just $4.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By porkpie on 1/27/2010 3:43:05 PM , Rating: 4

Believe it or not, the world's a lot bigger than your "frat boy bar" and "non-frat boy bar" viewpoint encompasses. The nicer the bar, the nicer the crowd-- the more expensive the product.

I bet you think anyone who pays more than $30 for an entree at a Restaurant is a "moron" also.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By lightfoot on 1/28/2010 12:43:33 PM , Rating: 3

As an alcoholic in training I can tell you, if all you are concerned about is the price of a drink, you can't beat your local liquor store. And when you get smashed at home, you don't have to fork over cab money. And you save loads not having to pay tips.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By Spivonious on 1/27/10, Rating: 0

RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By porkpie on 1/27/2010 4:26:25 PM , Rating: 2

Try a meal sometimes besides the local steakhouse. A real gourmet meal (not that I do that more than once a month or so) can easily be $2-$300 a couple...and well worth it, too.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By sigilscience on 1/27/2010 4:38:06 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
Just people who aren't so vain that they'll spend $7 for a drink just to feel better about themselves.

You know the rednecks who buy their drinks at the local 7-11 and sit down on the curb outside to swill them probably feel the same way about you. So who's right? You? Them? Or the chap paying $10 for a cocktail at an upscale piano bar?

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By ninjaquick on 1/27/2010 10:41:30 PM , Rating: 2

lol at your ignorance man. I lived on the eastside in Seattle for a year, and drinks start at 7 at any place worth going to that has parking. And I wouldn't spend a dime on any of those since they normally suck balls and make a bad beer seem like a heavenly nectar.

As far as 30 dollar entrees, maybe you're just some nerdy hick that lives in his moms basement and thinks mcDonalds is a fancy place. Sure, there are joints that serve awful food and charge way too much, but normally you get what you pay for. You may not believe it but a $30 steak at a good steakhouse is a hell of a lot better than a 15 dollar steak at applebees.

So maybe you should stop being poor and uneducated and maybe experience what we are talking about before forming your opinions. The uninformed troll does not deserve an opinion.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By ira176 on 1/28/2010 3:37:21 AM , Rating: 2

I like the $12 steak that I buy from my local grocer and season and grill myself at home. It almost always tastes better when I do it myself.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By Reclaimer77 on 1/28/2010 11:19:40 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
You may not believe it but a $30 steak at a good steakhouse is a hell of a lot better than a 15 dollar steak at applebees.

Applebees freezes their meat. Texas Roadhouse doesn't, and the taste difference is clear. I have been to many many "good steakhouses", and unless we're talking a Kobe steak, I would put their $12 rib eye or %15 fillet up against most fancy steakhouses.

I have 10 years experience in the industry, and let me tell you will all certainty, you are paying a huge markup for nothing for a $30 steak in most cases. You would be shocked at what even the best quality beef and the primest cuts actually costs in bulk from the suppliers.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By jonmcc33 on 1/27/2010 10:40:19 AM , Rating: 3

Hanging out with real friends and having a good time (possible chance to hook up with a woman) or spending time in a dark room clicking a mouse? Hmmmm, which one to take?

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By Akrovah on 1/27/2010 11:19:47 AM , Rating: 3

I prefer doing both. Hooking up with a Woman in a dark room WHILE clicking a mouse. (My wife plays MMOs so...)

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By Hieyeck on 1/27/2010 11:29:09 AM , Rating: 4

Ditto.

Why does everyone seem to assume that you can't have the best of both worlds...

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By Denigrate on 1/27/2010 1:39:48 PM , Rating: 3

have you seen these people? Two tons of fun!

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By lightfoot on 1/28/2010 12:46:45 PM , Rating: 2

Because Picard gets assimilated by the Borg in the "Best of Both Worlds." Duh. You can't pick up hot chicks if you've got a cybernetic laser eye.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By JTKTR on 1/27/2010 12:41:04 PM , Rating: 2

But can the woman play Crysis?

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By callmeroy on 1/27/2010 1:17:30 PM , Rating: 1

STILL doing the "Crysis joke" joke thing....move the hell on already my god the horse isn't only dead its corpse is decaying....

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By Akrovah on 1/27/2010 1:19:00 PM , Rating: 2

I must have missed the "Crysis joke" thing because I have no idea what you are talking about.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By Spivonious on 1/27/2010 3:45:45 PM , Rating: 2

lmao

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By Akrovah on 1/27/2010 1:17:40 PM , Rating: 3

Sadly no, she does not enjoy shooters, but she is very down with some mulitplayer Civilization.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By FaceMaster on 1/27/2010 11:39:45 AM , Rating: 5

Which were you doing as you wrote that?

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By porkpie on 1/27/2010 11:56:32 AM , Rating: 4

"Hanging out with real friends and having a good time (possible chance to hook up with a woman) or spending time in a dark room clicking a mouse? Hmmmm, which one to take?"

Believe it or not, the others you play with in an MMO are "real people". The notion that you can't meet and make good friends online is about 20 years out of date.

As for the chance to "hook up with a woman", I think about half the guys in my guild have met and dated people from the game. Two of them have even gotten married that way.

Personally, I think meeting someone in an MMO setting is probably healthier (both mentally as well as physically) than going off to some dive to pick up sleazy women.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By Denigrate on 1/27/10, Rating: 0

RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By FITCamaro on 1/27/2010 10:07:18 AM , Rating: 2

Pretty standard pricing. Question is how much enjoyment does $15 get you otherwise.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By Spivonious on 1/27/2010 10:11:25 AM , Rating: 5

<middle school>
It gets me 3 nights with your mom!

Ohhhhhhhhhhh

</middle school>

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By SavagePotato on 1/27/2010 10:12:38 AM , Rating: 5

I used to drop that much a day on coffee in shops when I was a coffee addict.

$15 a month is only a lot if you are either married with kids, or destitute. Which are kind of the same things.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By Mitch101 on 1/27/2010 10:35:33 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
$15 a month is only a lot if you are either married with kids

Cheaper than a sitter and gets them out of your hair for a little while.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By Aloonatic on 1/27/2010 11:14:06 AM , Rating: 2

It all depends I guess. Ignoring obviously silly comparisons like drinks in a bar. I was more thinking about how much value my CoD MW II disk for £40 got me, with free PS Network on-line fun and frolics for as long as I have an internet connection and willingness to play. Even then, I'll probably have to buy map-packs soon. Similar costs, different model?

As this model starts to make lots of money, will the days of free on-line play vanish, with subscription play being the only way?

I guess it's not really fair for me to comment too much as I simply wouldn't have the time to play that much. Kinda why I would be annoyed with an xBox live subscription even, but there you go. I guess it would not take too long to be able to justify it really. £9 is about what it costs for 1 person to go to the cinema these days. So a couple of hours later, you'd have justified it and not have someone searching you for the sweets (candy) that you smuggle in so that you don't have to pay an extortionate price for them. For just one film a month too.

Maybe it's not too bad.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By Akrovah on 1/27/2010 11:27:29 AM , Rating: 3

This model is already making fist loads of money. There are millions of people shelling out $15 dollars a month to play online games, and some of them even play multiple games, paying $15 a month for each of them.

And as for subscription models becoming the standard for all online play, you already mentioned Xbox live, and I have read rumors that Sony is going to also expand PSN with a subscription model. I think in Sony's case though the basic stuff that is free now will remain free, but I doubt that will hold for PS4.

In short, I think the days you mention where there is no more free online play are pretty much already here, or are at least knocking on the door.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By Ratinator on 1/27/2010 12:14:29 PM , Rating: 3

You can't really compare a game like CoD MW II to an MMORPG. The scale difference is huge as MMORPG are built on a scale significantly larger than the typical game.

I just finished Dragon Age: Origins and non online RPG. It cost me about $50 and got me 100 hours of playing time. That was pretty much exploring everything in the game there was to explore and finishing it. I have played WoW for over 2 years now and have logged somewhere around 600+ hours and I still have yet to finish everything that game has to offer.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By mattspeer01 on 1/28/2010 12:51:36 PM , Rating: 1

quote:
I was more thinking about how much value my CoD MW II disk for £40 got me, with free PS Network on-line fun and frolics for as long as I have an internet connection and willingness to play.

Yeah real great value with a whole 4 hour single player campaign. Not everyone is into multiplayer, or perhaps their internet connection sucks, so it just blows when developers skimp on the single player part of the game. Fuck Infinity Ward.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By Cappadocious on 1/27/2010 5:47:38 PM , Rating: 3

Well, it cost me $12.50 per person to go see Sherlock Holmes ( I liked it btw ) this weekend. That was just to get through the door. Then the wife wanted a $37.99 large soda after we got in. And that was just for 2 hours of movie. If I can get more then 3 hours enjoyment out the game a month then it is still a bargain.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By jonmcc33 on 1/27/2010 10:38:21 AM , Rating: 2

The prices are the exact reason I will never play any MMO. They make you pay for the game and then make you pay to play. I wouldn't mind paying $9.95 per month if the game were free to install. But I won't pay to get the game and pay $14.95 per month. That's insane.

At that point you need to hours on end just to get your money's worth out of the game. That's probably why most people that play MMO have no life.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By Akrovah on 1/27/2010 11:32:31 AM , Rating: 2

Having to buy the game and then pay monthly fees does kinda suck, but it is the nature of the product.

You buy the game, lets say $50 dollars, and like all software, that gets you a license to use it, but in no way is that going to cover server maintinence for 6-10 years on top of the cost of providing 24 hour survelance in case they ever go down, and so you have to pay a regular tiding to keep the servers up and running. This seems perfectly reasonable to me.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By tallcool1 on 1/27/2010 12:15:21 PM , Rating: 2

Guild Wars is one of the more popular MMO's, and online play is FREE. You only pay for the initial purchase price of the game.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By JakLee on 1/27/2010 12:51:25 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
Guild Wars is Free...

DDO is free as well (Dungeon & Dragons Online: Eberron Unlimited, google is your friend) and has no upfront cost any more (though it did initially). You get access to more things, better things, and faster access to things by paying monthly fees though. It is at the forefront of American F2P w/Microtransactions model.

I have been playing it for years, before it went F2P and the gameplay is top notch, the graphics are getting ANOTHER update to DX11 soon, the combat is truely unique, and of course, it has D&D stuff, lol.

Not much of a star trek fan, so I will likely skip on this, but as for pricing, it is very much in line with the old industry standard. However Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, and WOW (according to some rumors, not verified the WOW part) are offering unlimited Free 2 Play options so I am not sure how much longer the Pay to Play model will be valid.

How likley are you to try a game to see if you like it if you have drop $60 upfront & pay the first month at $15 vs trying a game that costs you $0 upfront & know that if you do like it, you may not have to pay anything to play it, or only pay for small things (like extra content) WHEN you want to play.
But hey, thats just my opinion

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By JediJeb on 1/27/2010 1:25:45 PM , Rating: 2

How likley are you to try a game to see if you like it if you have drop $60 upfront & pay the first month at $15 vs trying a game that costs you $0 upfront & know that if you do like it, you may not have to pay anything to play it, or only pay for small things (like extra content) WHEN you want to play.
But hey, thats just my opinion

I believe Star Trek and many other give you the first month free with purchase, but overall that only saves you $15 from what you said.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By porkpie on 1/27/2010 1:34:10 PM , Rating: 2

"How likley are you to try a game to see if you like it if you have drop $60 upfront & pay the first month at $15 vs trying a game that costs you $0 upfront"

So you're saying you've never bought a non-online game and paid upfront for it?

MMOs take years to develop, with open betas involving thousands of players. People usually have a pretty good idea what they're buying before they write the check.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By dubldwn on 1/27/2010 1:34:36 PM , Rating: 2

I’ll tell you what - my buddy has been pestering me to play DDO for years and I finally installed it on Saturday. I haven’t paid a penny and I have a lot of hours in already. To say they let you try it is a huge understatement. That much free content is amazing. I’m really enjoying it.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By Akrovah on 1/27/2010 1:16:12 PM , Rating: 2

It also wasn't vey good in my opinion. It just didn't feel very open to me.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By LordanSS on 1/27/2010 4:10:25 PM , Rating: 2

Try out EVE Online. $20 for the initial account activation (comes with first month paid for), $15 monthly subscription. Expansions are free as they are released.

But EVE is pretty... "hardcore" if compared to other MMOs. Massive too.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By cludinsk on 1/27/2010 11:42:25 AM , Rating: 2

most people who play MMOs play 2-4 hours a day, many play more. it ends up being pennies per hour. think of it as interactive tv, it's not any worse then paying for cable channels.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By porkpie on 1/27/2010 12:00:10 PM , Rating: 4

"The prices are the exact reason I will never play any MMO. They make you pay for the game and then make you pay to play."

That's a rather blind statement, to be honest. The last XBox game I bought I paid $60, and finished it in under two weeks. Its replayability is zero.

My favorite MMO, I paid $50 for the game and $15/month ... but I played it for over 5 years, on a daily basis. And every couple of months, there was new content. Every year or so, a major release made it essentially a brand new game.

Entertainment just doesn't get any cheaper than that.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By Ratinator on 1/27/2010 12:08:44 PM , Rating: 2

While you say the prices are a problem, if you work in the development field, you would understand that price is very reasonable and required. They have to continuously maintain 100s of servers, a massive network and guarantee as much up time as possible. They continue to add many updates and enhancements as part of that fee structure as well. Only massive changes such as an expansion pack will require you to buy additional software.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By Pjotr on 1/29/2010 3:49:21 AM , Rating: 2

Make that 13250 servers, 75000 cores, 4600+ employees... 4 months ago: http://www.thegamereviews.com/article-1515-World-o...

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By Bateluer on 1/27/2010 11:15:40 AM , Rating: 2

Aside from the lifetime subs, the pricing is identical to every other MMO that carries a paid subscription.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By atlmann10 on 1/27/2010 11:57:19 AM , Rating: 2

Yes with the first big game I played being Everquest on this model starting at 9.99 and moving up to 14.99 (I apologize I don't know the current monthly it has been some time since I played that one) this is normal pricing. Either way though one thing with an MMO in most cases is there are normally updates changes additions and fixes weekly, biweekly, and or monthly. There are also large updates pretty regularly as well so what you get for your money is also different. I have had updates in most mmo's also which make very significant changes. This would be adding a whole new landmass to adventure quest or fight on. Whereas often in other games you get or can get updates if there significant or large you have to pay for them always. Yes there are upgrade packages as well which add specifically large areas and changes to. These will usually contain all updates up to the date they were active. Either way I feel that on a general basis this is justified as you get an ever changing game world in many ways. I have even been part of several which updated to a completely new back bone technology (such as DX8,9, 10, 10.1) which takes quite a large commitment and length of time to produce. Either way $14.99 is less than going to one movie by myself for 2 hours of my life. Whereas; I can spend 2 hours every day of my 30 day $14.99 subscription rate, if I so choose or just play it once in that 30 days. Either way it is actually much cheaper than almost any other means of entertainment, even cable or satellite TV, broken down in 30 days for which you pay 100 to 120 dollars (and or 3.33 or 4.00) every single day, not just once a month.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By InvertMe on 1/27/2010 11:20:35 AM , Rating: 2

They seem perfectly reasonable to me.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By callmeroy on 1/27/2010 1:15:39 PM , Rating: 3

I'll make the assumption you aren't a big MMO gamer...anyway this pricing model has exist for YEARS for many MMO's this isn't anything new really -- except for the lifetime subscription, which if you are really into the game is probably worth it.

As for folks who diss MMO's -- to each their own of course, however realise that the true fun of an MMO is severely influenced by the people you play with online and interact with.

I play WoW -- have for 5 years now....while I enjoy the game, I honestly don't think I'd still be playing it today if it wasn't for the great group of "friends" online that I constantly hook up with for quests, raiding, pvp, whatever strikes us at the moment to do.

If you play one of these games w/o any "friends' (real life or just in game) your experience is going to be VERY different...probably very boring and dull.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By Screwballl on 1/27/2010 4:27:36 PM , Rating: 1

quote:
am I the only person who thinks that those price are insane?

nope.... I am of the belief that if I buy a game, I expect any way I play it to be free. Free patches, free updates, free servers (and none of this "its an expansion" shit which is nothing more than a glorified patch/update)...

There are plenty of user owned content based games and servers out there (Counter Strike, SupCom, COD4, SOSE) or a free game where you pay for extra content (Jade Dynasty)... so I suspect the first year or so of this game will be the wow factor but once people see it for what it is, a money grab, it will die a quiet death... until someone hacks the game to allow unofficial servers.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By porkpie on 1/27/2010 4:40:37 PM , Rating: 2

"I am of the belief that if I buy a game, I expect any way I play it to be free"

I feel the same way about my plasma TV. That's why I refuse to get cable, satellite, or buy or rent movies for it. I bought it, why should I have to pay extra to enjoy it?

I still love it though. I dust it off every night and even turn it on once in a while to watch the white fuzzy screen.

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RE: MMORPGs and pricing.

By just4U on 1/27/2010 9:38:14 PM , Rating: 2

The price does seem a little on the high side. Most MMO's are around $10-12 per month. Hmmm.. I wonder if it's just because its "STAR TREK"

My question I suppose would be what are you getting more over other MMO's to justify the aditional costs? The Lifetime offer is the only one that seems really good but ofcourse most wouldn't buy that over the first couple months anyway.

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Another wasted opportunity?

By tviceman on 1/27/2010 10:01:59 AM , Rating: 4

Unanimous reports from beta testers are that ship combat/exploration is fun but ground combat/away missions are not, and content is lacking. So, in other words, at release almost half of the game has good potential.

With such a license as big as the star trek universe it just doesn't make sense to be rushing this thing out the door for the sake of making money in Jan. 2010. Troubled launches, either by way of bugs, bad gameplay mechanics, and insufficient content KILL MMO's from ever reaching anything beyond a niche game.

From a business standpoint, I'm shaking my head in disgust at how publishers nail an exact launch dates on developers months in advance. I realize developers could work for years on content and experience feature creep (hi Duke Nukem, I know you're there), but especially in the face of beta testers saying currently that only half of the game is fun, Cryptic/Atari are facing an uphill battle to make this game come anywhere close to it's earnings potential.

RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By MarkLuvsCS on 1/27/2010 10:08:20 AM , Rating: 2

The game definitely isn't fully fleshed out (when has an MMO ever truly been ready at launch?) but it's a lot of fun. If you talk to closed beta testers I'm pretty sure they would tell you that the gameplay is simply FUN. They made tremendous leaps and bounds through patches week to week. They've already got plans for a major content patch 45 days from release.

If you know friends with game access, some copies come with friend free trial invites. It's worth taking a look even if your not a Star Trek fan.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By TSS on 1/27/2010 1:10:49 PM , Rating: 2

I'm a closed beta tester. Got in via champions online lifetime subscription, somewhere in november.

i played about 3-4 test sessions before i got bored and i haven't started it up again. yes i know it's beta, yes i know it's not final, no i wasn't in it to just play but to test and improve the game and for as long as i played, i did just that.

As long as your not a star trek fan, the game has merit. As in, it can be fixed and improved over i'm estimating a year's worth of time. If you are a star trek fan, by god do not buy it. On the very first mission you do, you blow up more ships with a single miranda then a single ship has ever done in the series, at the planet NEXT to earth, and when you beam down to the ground the way to kill klingon is to shoot them 50 times with a phaser rifle (only crits = evaporate). not to mention you PUNCH BORG TO DEATH AS A LEVEL 1 IN THE TUTORIAL! BORG!

But for now, it's one hugeass grind, which you'll agonizingly do to get to top level where 5 man raids await you. 5 man!

let me repeat that. an MMO, with 5 man >RAIDS!< Diablo 2 had more people in "raids".

Like i said. If your not familiar with star trek, and you can get over the button mashing you'll be doing for 40 levels, the game can be fun. But i'm not buying the game where the community has to beg for inertia to be added.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By Reclaimer77 on 1/27/2010 3:59:17 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
As long as your not a star trek fan, the game has merit. As in, it can be fixed and improved over i'm estimating a year's worth of time. If you are a star trek fan, by god do not buy it. On the very first mission you do, you blow up more ships with a single miranda then a single ship has ever done in the series, at the planet NEXT to earth, and when you beam down to the ground the way to kill klingon is to shoot them 50 times with a phaser rifle (only crits = evaporate). not to mention you PUNCH BORG TO DEATH AS A LEVEL 1 IN THE TUTORIAL! BORG!

Oh my... really ? REALLY !?? Punch Borg to death ??

Terrible, I knew it. I spit on this game.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By lightfoot on 1/28/2010 12:57:13 PM , Rating: 3

In all fairness it is the "training" mission and they do mention that they are "defective" borg.

I guess that retarded borg are the rats of the Star Trek universe. It's probably more PC than killing Klingon or Romulan children.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By Reclaimer77 on 1/27/2010 10:22:42 AM , Rating: 2

I'm a huge Star Trek fan and a big MMO player, so I was naturally excited about STO.

However it appears they missed the mark BADLY and didn't to justice to the IP of Star Trek, not by a longshot.

Also I'm saddened by the online store approach. Where players can spend real money to get ahead of other players by buying ships and equipment etc etc. Thank god Blizzard hasn't done this with WoW.

First off, the game is in a wartime setting. Big mistake. Star Trek has combat, yes, but it's fans yearn for the freedom of space, exploration, diplomatic apportunities etc etc. Going around looking for stuff to blow up is a really poor way of designing a Star Trek game.

Sigh... they really blew it. I guess Eve Online is still the best choice for a space based MMO. Unless major changes happen, STO isn't for us real trekkies.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By FITCamaro on 1/27/2010 10:40:51 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
First off, the game is in a wartime setting. Big mistake. Star Trek has combat, yes, but it's fans yearn the freedom of space, exploration, diplomatic apportunities etc etc. Going around looking for stuff t blow up is a really poor way of designing a Star Trek game

I would not play a Star Trek game where the focus is on diplomacy and exploration. I want to explore the "world" they create. But that's not a very interesting thing to do as a goal. I want to blow shit up and fight the Borg, Dominion, species 8472, etc.

No I am not a big trekkie. But I've watched all the shows and the game is designed the way I want it to be. With action in mind. If I wanted a fluffy world of rainbows and bunnies I'd go play Hello Kitty I'm an Adventure.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By Reclaimer77 on 1/27/2010 10:54:07 AM , Rating: 1

quote:
I would not play a Star Trek game where the focus is on diplomacy and exploration. I want to explore the "world" they create. But that's not a very interesting thing to do as a goal. I want to blow shit up and fight the Borg, Dominion, species 8472, etc.

The "focus" of an MMO should be up to the players. STO feels like your playing in a heavily instanced box, basically not even getting the MMO feel. MMO's should not be highly scripted and instanced. And you should not be pigeonholed into how you play.

Fact is, STO has no crafting system to speak of. No gathering options such as mining etc etc. Several of the skills you earn don't actually go to doing anything. Exploration is a JOKE. You find an anomoly and you get a tarot card for your troubles ! No loot no nothing.

Sorry but this isn't Star Trek, at all. The point of MMO's is a large persistent universe where players can choose their own path and interact with other players to either 1) make this possible mutually or 2) Conflict with others players choosing the same or different paths. STO misses the mark because it doesn't conform to the standards of what we come to know about Star Trek or the playability of other MMO's.

Look at Eve online. The focus is up to the players, and MASSIVE wars happen on a daily basis.

quote:
If I wanted a fluffy world of rainbows and bunnies I'd go play Hello Kitty I'm an Adventure.

Sigh... I'm not saying to make it that, and you know it. You aren't 15 so stop acting like it. The STO forum is full of solid feedback and reasoning about this.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By FITCamaro on 1/27/2010 11:35:42 AM , Rating: 2

Yeah it doesn't follow the traditional model but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By drebo on 1/27/2010 7:01:05 PM , Rating: 2

Except that the traditional model is not what he described anymore, and it hasn't been since DAoC before TOA. That was the last time an MMOG didn't have a linear story (which is what he's talking about).

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By fcx56 on 1/27/2010 11:36:37 AM , Rating: 2

You're right, I remember the heavy focus on mining throughout the series' plotlines....

To blodly mine where no one has mined before!

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By Reclaimer77 on 1/27/2010 11:46:33 AM , Rating: 3

quote:
You're right, I remember the heavy focus on mining throughout the series' plotlines.... To blodly mine where no one has mined before!

There isn't enough gritty details in the series to make a working MMO. But there are plenty of references to mining and mining ships. Even in the newest film Nero's ship was a mining vessel.

However, your post lacks one detail, they put a player economy into the game. I don't remember the heavy focus on economy in the series plotlines either, but there it is. If you put something into the game, it should be functional and make sense.

Ships are made of metals. The game has a economic system build into it. Are you seeing the next logical progression ??? Connect the dots.

Why do you guys take every comment to it's extreme ? I'm not saying make the game about mining for fuks sake.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By fcx56 on 1/27/2010 3:44:16 PM , Rating: 2

OK, OK, I took it a bit far. And to agree with you if I remember correctly TNG had said that they hadn't used money in society for a long time, however the Ferengi brought that notion back up on DS9, so I guess there could be some basis for it.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By porkpie on 1/27/2010 12:02:10 PM , Rating: 2

"MMO's should not be highly scripted and instanced... "

Don't even get me started on whats wrong with current MMOs. They started off soooo well, then went downhill as devs began to think the msg-board whiners really did know what they wanted in a game.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By kattanna on 1/27/2010 12:12:30 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
They started off soooo well, then went downhill as devs began to think the msg-board whiners really did know what they wanted in a game.

yeppers. nowadays there is NO wrong choice, which to me means, no real reward.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By Reclaimer77 on 1/27/2010 12:28:07 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
yeppers. nowadays there is NO wrong choice, which to me means, no real reward.

Could you expand and clarify this please ?

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By porkpie on 1/27/2010 1:01:08 PM , Rating: 2

I think he means (and I agree) that modern MMOs have gotten the "entitlement syndrome". No matter how stupid of a player you are, you're not going to get penalized harshly, and you'll still be able to see and experience most if not all the content the game has to offer.

Sad really, I think. I prefer an experience where dying (or at least wiping out deep in some areas) is so painful that the mere thought of it makes your palms sweat, experiencing it makes you want to throw your monitor out the window, and AVOIDING it actually makes you stand up in your chair and cheer.

The modern MMOs are so full of training wheels, auto-mapping options, hold-my-hand quests, and an utter lack of any meaningful sort of failure penalty, that you never EVER forget you're playing a game. In that respect, Everquest c. 1999 did a much better job of creating a virtual world, even with its crude, blocky graphics.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By The0ne on 1/27/2010 2:28:47 PM , Rating: 2

You are, again, speaking specifically about games to your knowledge. While the popular WOW is now really a game for kids as everything is so easy to do and get, there are still a few games out there that punishes you if you die or suck at playing the game.

Of the one game that I still play, it's FFXI. You don't want to die, you don't want to die because of stupid kids unable to play their jobs well and you certainly don't want to die because some of your guild members are douche-bags. The penalty has actually been reduced but you still don't want to lose your hard earn experience and de-leveled.

Although the game is a grindfest, it's heaven to be able to escape the pathetic, childish, annoying kids found in most MMO...WOW is a perfect example.

Diablo2, and very old game, has penalties. And while before the MMO genre it was still 8 player action/grind.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By porkpie on 1/27/2010 2:38:53 PM , Rating: 2

FFXI is no different, at least it wasn't when I played it. You still get your hand held, you get a little hit to exp from dying, but there's no severely challenging areas in which you have to worry about losing all your gear, or a months' worth of exp grinding.

Again, if its better now, let me know.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By The0ne on 1/27/2010 3:10:50 PM , Rating: 2

I think you're mistaken. This game does not hold your hands and really tell you want you need to do :o This the the teamwork requirements is why people give up before investing more.

And no you don't lose you items but the exp lost is still there. They've lessen the lost after a corresponding tier raise but losing 2k xp is wasting 5min to recover and another 10 or so to recover your lost XP, that is if you have a good party going.

What do you mean "if it's better"? We're talking about penalties. And yes the game has gotten better especially with the new level sync feature and banning of RMT, if that's what you're talking about.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By porkpie on 1/27/2010 3:17:50 PM , Rating: 2

Sorry, but 15 minutes of lost time isn't a death penalty, its a joke.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By The0ne on 1/27/2010 3:40:22 PM , Rating: 2

Must I again remind you of why this discussion started? Please maintain focus for at least a minute during our conversation. Your objectivity from this thread and others are all over the place without meaningful justification. Please stop the BS.

quote:
Sad really, I think. I prefer an experience where dying (or at least wiping out deep in some areas) is so painful that the mere thought of it makes your palms sweat, experiencing it makes you want to throw your monitor out the window, and AVOIDING it actually makes you stand up in your chair and cheer.

Dying in FFXI is usually because of inexperience players and rarely to mistakes. These inexperience players don't go very far in levels or even stay in the game. If they do survive through the levels you can be sure they are well known for being a noob and won't ever be invited by the same players again. Good players will always get invited unless they are aholes.

It is because of what you want, from your quote, and now consider a "joke" that there aren't a lot of noob players on FFXI. 15min is wasted simply because your dumbass can't play well enough and/or be productive in a teamwork environment. There are NO OTHER excuses, except for the rare mistakes, other than that. Play well and play well with others to succeed.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By porkpie on 1/27/2010 3:47:24 PM , Rating: 2

"Dying in FFXI is usually because of inexperience players and rarely to mistakes."

So inexperienced players don't make mistakes? You're still missing the point. FFXI is in no way, shape, or form a hard game. It takes a bit of time to progress...but it doesn't take more than a modicum of skill.

Take (very early EQ), for instance. A good player could hit max level in 30 days. A bad player could spend a year and still never get there, because every time they died, they lost their entire day's work.

And that's just in the low-risk zones. In a high-risk zone, you could spend a month planning and setting up for your first entry...and a mistake there might cost you everything your character owns and worked for since level one.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By Fritzr on 1/27/2010 4:20:31 PM , Rating: 2

I'll add another old timer that is still alive "The Fourth Coming". T4C is run on private licensed servers. Each server can, and normally does add custom maps, equipment and quests. Some are free, some are subscription, many are mixed with paid players getting some extras.

Servers may have online shops with prebuilt chars, unique items & "quest item packs" for those who just want a high level char and are willing to use real world money to get it.

The server I preferred (recently closed) was a Chaos server. That means no GM assistance unless the problem is a game bug, no store extras, All current level XP & backpack gold lost when dying and all equipped items and 1 each of backpack items dropped on death. An older setting on that server penalized 10% of total XP on death :)

The Play server from the same licensee is the other extreme. Penalty for death is a few items dropped. The webstore offers unique items & "quest item packs" for cash. GMs will offer help and referee special events regularly (bad to get caught in a high level "raid" [lots of monsters spawned] when you're low level :P )

The server I've moved to penalizes a percentage of backpack gold, percentage of XP since last level and random items. The also have a webstore with store only equipment and prebuilt chars.

All T4C servers have Guilds for players who want to get together and play as a group. One memorable guild on the Chaos server had as its goal, harassing everyone else on the server.

PvP is a server option. It can be unlimited, limited to a a set range relative to your level or completely off. This setting can be applied to submaps, so a no-PvP server may have a PvP island for those who want to fight.

This is just one game. There are many, many games out there. Some are oldtimers like T4C and Everquest, others are brand new.

For a list of most of them check out: http://www.mmorpg.com/

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By Reclaimer77 on 1/27/2010 2:47:37 PM , Rating: 3

FFXI is a terrible game.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By The0ne on 1/27/2010 3:13:22 PM , Rating: 2

You mean you don't like it. As with every game ever released in history it has it's positives and negatives.

Listing why you don't like the game would be more useful than your previous comment.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By Reclaimer77 on 1/27/2010 2:57:47 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
I think he means (and I agree) that modern MMOs have gotten the "entitlement syndrome". No matter how stupid of a player you are, you're not going to get penalized harshly, and you'll still be able to see and experience most if not all the content the game has to offer.

If you are paying a fee I see nothing wrong with expecting that you will have the opportinity to enjoy all the content you are paying for. Unless you mean something else ?

People play MMO's to escape, or have fun, or rise above challenges. Not to be "penalized" when you don't meet someone else's expectations of what you should be doing.

Are you talking about xp loss ? Or gear loss ? Those just add grinding to the game and don't fix the "problem" you seem to have with other people. What penalties are we talking here ?

quote:
Sad really, I think. I prefer an experience where dying (or at least wiping out deep in some areas) is so painful that the mere thought of it makes your palms sweat, experiencing it makes you want to throw your monitor out the window, and AVOIDING it actually makes you stand up in your chair and cheer.

Hmm I think you should play sports or something if you need to feel that good about playing a game. Those don't sound like fun qualities at all in a game that I'm paying to play. Penalties are fine, but you're describing physical and emotional discomfort lol.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By porkpie on 1/27/2010 3:09:18 PM , Rating: 1

"If you are paying a fee I see nothing wrong with expecting that you will have the opportinity to enjoy all the content you are paying for"

I do. If any sub-moronic chimpanzee can pick up the mouse and do just as well as the best players in the game-- whats the point in being good?

Games are about competition. To compete, someone must win...and someone must lose. The "everyone's got to be a winner" mentality is what's killing MMOs. Everyone deserves the best gear, the highest levels, the chance to see the toughest, most exclusive zones. Good god, its frappin' disgusting!

It takes away all the thrill of victory, when your "achievement" is duplicated 10 minutes later, by a couple 5 year olds randomly banging on keys.

"Penalties are fine, but you're describing physical and emotional discomfort..."

You miss the point. The fun is in avoiding the penalty. But if the penalty doesn't exist, you don't get the fun of beating it.

It's all risk vs. reward. When the rewards are virtual, the lack of risk means the rewards are meaningless.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By Reclaimer77 on 1/27/2010 3:30:12 PM , Rating: 3

Ah yes. The elitist and condescending gamer. I love how you describe everyone else as chimps and 5 year olds randomly beating on keys.

Most of you guys aren't nearly as good as you think you are.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By porkpie on 1/27/2010 3:58:51 PM , Rating: 2

"I love how you describe everyone else as chimps and 5 year olds randomly beating on keys."

Not everyone else. You cannot deny, though, that such players are a large element in modern MMOs...the game system is written to encourage lackadaisical, slipshod play styles, rather than to reward skillful players.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By The0ne on 1/27/2010 3:31:39 PM , Rating: 1

From Reclaimer's comment, this is exactly why he wouldn't want to play any FF games. He needs it to be extremely easy, obtain the items without much effort and in the end proclaim yourself to be elite just because. Oh, and it has to be button smashing too I guess. Spam all the nukes, cures and threat you can by pressing buttons. Well, how about some tactics thrown in? Too hard I guess ; ;

As for you, you described what FFXI is about. It doesn't hold your hand for many of the quests, especially missions. Without teamwork you are not going anywhere fast. The best items are reserved to those that dedicate themselves to work together and complete quests, fights or what have you. It's not button smashing as each job has skills, magic and abilities that you can use to be offensive/defensive. Spamming gets you kill in FFXI and noobs learn it the hard way.

It's an achievement that once you do get what you've been going after, it's pure bliss. That's the reward in addition to the item. Add to that, most guild members are proud of you and others are in awe when they see you have it. It's an actual accomplishment rather than "dmbass achievement earned!" crap. It's hard work, very hard work to get the best items in the game. Love it or leave it :)

It took me 1 freaking week to get my t9 and 245+ gears for my priest in WOW from level 73-80. Canceled afterward. Where's the fun, the excitement, the journey, the relationships? NOTHING that's why.

So if you're all for risk vs reward I don't see how you didn't enjoy FFXI unless grinding was too much for you, as for some people. I always like grinding in FF games so I'm actually grateful lol :D

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By Reclaimer77 on 1/27/2010 3:53:48 PM , Rating: 2

No I'm really just not into Japanese animation. That's something you too will grow out of in time.

FFXI is enjoying it's small fan base, and that's fine. I have a job, go to school, and have a girlfriend. I can't afford to get caught up in an MMO that demands every spare moment of my life.

Come up with whatever insults you see fit. I don't feel the need to justify my existence based on games or how "good" I am at them. You might even grow out of that too.

FFXI is a grindfest, plain and simple. You aren't better because you are addicted to it, or more skilled. You are simply playing twice as much for half the return. Good for you I guess ?

quote:
It took me 1 freaking week to get my t9 and 245+ gears for my priest in WOW from level 73-80. Canceled afterward. Where's the fun, the excitement, the journey, the relationships? NOTHING that's why.

So because you got the gear quickly that allows you to participate in the fun, exciting, journey of end game... you uhhh quit before you could have the fun exciting journey ? Gotcha, makes a lot of sense. So if it took you, lets say, 5 months for the T9 - which has already been replaced by T10 - you would be having more fun ?

So the grind is all that matters to you basically ?

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By The0ne on 1/27/2010 5:34:28 PM , Rating: 2

Urgh, the sheer ignorance from you again Reclaimer.

Animation is animation. You don't like Japanese animation is like me hating Japanese air. If you can't appreciate animation in any form DON'T play your games! Don't watch movies, don't have anything to do with animation at all. You think animation done in Japan is somehow 100% unique that you should hate it? What utter nonsense.

Adding to insult, what does Japanese animation have to do with FFXI? You mean because it's made in Japan? Do you see animation that is purely "Japanese" only, if such a thing exists?

As for Japanese animation in itself, it's grown and grown huge. Again, it's YOUR problem you don't like it, not everyone else.

And as with many other discussions we had, I don't disagree with you on FFXI being a grindfest and not to everyone's tastes. All FF games have been that way. The grindfest, the required teamwork and the amount of time needed to get the good items and the need to actually BE a good player is what turns most people off from the game....hence the small subscription base. There is no "better" in this game, there is a dumb noob player that gets people killed, never learns and there are good players.

quote:
You are simply playing twice as much for half the return. Good for you I guess ?

You don't solo in this game. You team up. Is that too difficult for you to grasp? When you team up and everyone plays well then the grindfest suddenly becomes a joy as players start leveling quickly.

How you ever got to justifying this discusson with your pathetic life is beyond me when it is apparent from this post you do play more games than I do thus wasting more of your precious time. Here's a tip, shag your girlfriend more.

Cite some the the fun, exciting journey that you see in WOW for me please. Go ahead. I'm doing 5-man all the time and RAIDs with the family guild. Is there other things to do now other than BGs? That's all I was doing, easily. I'm a huge warcraft story fan ever since warcraft 1 so please, cite me end stuff.

I'm not here to pressure FFXI to you two bozos. I'm here simply stating to Porky that there are other MMO games with penalties that his limited experience has tortured us with. As for you, I simply asked why you don't like FFXI and you've yet to list reasons other than it being Japanese made and a grindfest, the later of which other MMOs have to worst extent.

I like the grind, always had with FF games. I play FFXI because I like how the game is and how it basically and utterly eliminates aholes players like yourself. It makes for one enjoyable game for couple of hours a night from you know...LIFE.

And for the last time take some classes on reading comprehension and stop using what we agree on to debate with me by. That's just sad.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By porkpie on 1/27/2010 4:07:46 PM , Rating: 2

"It's an achievement that once you do get what you've been going after, it's pure bliss. "

And it's far more rewarding when that achievement meant taking (and avoiding) very large risks. But if and until you ever play a game with a high difficulty factor and a real loss penalty, you're not going to know what I'm talking about.

And for the last time, yes I KNOW FFXI is better in this regard than WOW. It's still at the kiddy level though...and from what I hear, its gotten easier and less penalizing since I quit.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By XGene on 1/27/2010 3:49:43 PM , Rating: 2

I agree, The first game that I played on a subscription basis(kingdom of drakkar) had real penalties and seriously difficult quests. Some of the bosses not only stripped all your gear but wiped out levels AND stats! I did get tired of grunting to make the next level but I still did it because there were serious rewards. The game had a depth unlike any other I have found since because it's been evolving ever since the 1980's The graphics were dated but it didn't matter because of the freedom of character development and real risk and reward of the game were FUN! There were actually quests in the game that nobody had every completed because there was no guide to the game that told you how to do them.. You actually had to spend hours exploring and pondering how to finish a quest. I miss those days..

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By porkpie on 1/27/2010 4:35:03 PM , Rating: 1

"Some of the bosses not only stripped all your gear but wiped out levels AND stats!...The graphics were dated but it didn't matter because of the freedom of character development and real risk and reward of the game were FUN! "

Yeah, these new players will never know that kind of fun unfortunately. I once spent over 3 months work (several hours a night) just to get ONE item...and other people spent more than I did, and never managed to get it.

My very first sub-based game (dialup, pre-MMO) had perma-death instituted. Die in that game, and you lost everything. Everything. Yeah, it was a bitch when it happened...but only people with balls of iron went on a dragon raid in that game, and you planned your ASS off before you stepped in, to make sure you had done everything you could to avoid losing.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By eek2121 on 1/27/2010 12:46:31 PM , Rating: 2

On the contrary, to me, the best type of MMO is one that provides you with a 'personalized' experience. Something that draws you in. Naturally you can't have totally unique quests, but at the very least the quest should feel personable to you. WoW failed in this regard. Quests were all really basic quests, and only a few quests had actual stories behind them. The quests in the beta of STO were all really story driven. Some quests you complete may come up later, etc. An example of this was the borg attack when you first start the game. Everyone may go through that quest, but the story was fabulous compared to some MMOs I played. Defending against a borg attack is much more fun than killing 10 mobs

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By bobvodka on 1/27/2010 12:51:35 PM , Rating: 2

[quote]
First off, the game is in a wartime setting. Big mistake. Star Trek has combat, yes, but it's fans yearn for the freedom of space, exploration, diplomatic apportunities etc etc. Going around looking for stuff to blow up is a really poor way of designing a Star Trek game.
[/quote]

I'd consider myself a pretty big startrek fan; watched all the series, own all the films and got a shed load of books.

The thing about Trek is that since about The Way of The Warrior ep there has been alot more war in it. StarTrek Nemisis, the last film in 'universe prime' was a pretty harsh film as was the two before it.

The books continue this theme as well, with the 'A Time To..' series having an insane body count and many of the books killing off major characters and generally showing the universe in a much more 'real' setting.

In short, this is just continuing a theme already setup.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By Reclaimer77 on 1/27/2010 1:02:09 PM , Rating: 2

Books aren't canon. And everyone knows the Next Gen movies sucked ass.

Let the players decide if they want to war or not. And put in a system where there are risks and rewards that add gravity to the war.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not against a Star Trek war. I would rather just see that something that slowly evolves over time due to the players. Rather than just everyone be plopped into the game and have the Devs say "ok, you're at war, now FIGHT ! ".

Star Trek is not an action franchise. But it does HAVE action.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By FITCamaro on 1/27/2010 2:22:29 PM , Rating: 2

I don't think the Star Trek universe lends itself very well to that model. Remember the devs biggest restraint are those who own the rights to the series. I mean who would decide in a player run model that the federation and the Klingons would go to war? I think that kind of model only works when you pretty much start from scratch as EVE did.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By grath on 1/27/2010 11:15:19 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
I don't think the Star Trek universe lends itself very well to that model.

It really doesnt. I have been saying for a decade that not only is Star Trek too idealistic to be conducive to good PvP gameplay, but that the existing community that would populate the player base is too heavy in the carebear end of the spectrum, and would demand safety and fairness over pwnage and gankage.

What does lend itself exceptionally well to an MMOG is the Stargate universe, with their hopefully upcoming Stargate: Worlds game. It lacks the tolerance, cleanliness, and rigidity of the Star Trek universe, and the canon already provides most if not all the technology and gameplay mechanics necessary for an MMOG with less restrictive PvP.

I just hope it doesnt get lost and cancelled in development limbo.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By LordanSS on 1/27/2010 4:22:25 PM , Rating: 2

I am a beta player, and from what the Devs have been telling us, the Online Store is only for cosmetic items. Nobody is going to be getting gear that will allow them to perform better than other players through their online store. Want a new ingame cosmetic pet or a different uniform? Just spend your cryptic points. No different than getting a Chinese Kung-Fu Panda pet or something in WoW.

STO has a lot of potential. Indeed there is still a lot to be added as content, but that is on par with any MMO that has ever come out. As time passes, more content is added and the setting gets better. Always has been that way.

I hope the devs manage to deliver on the potential, and not botch it up like they did with Star Wars Galaxies (which had a ton of potential too, but never delivered).

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By Reclaimer77 on 1/27/2010 5:01:34 PM , Rating: 2

I don't think more content is going to help STO because their initial concept is flawed right off the bat.

I loved SWG too, but looking back, the potential was never going to be realized because they didn't put the basic MMO toolkit into the game that allowed the community to feel like they had a sense of purpose. Then came the great "be a Jedi" craze because they couldn't figure out ways to get people to play and keep playing, which eventually lead to the games demise.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By porkpie on 1/27/2010 5:08:55 PM , Rating: 2

SWG had hands down the best crafting system ever implemented in an MMO. But you're right, they got so excited about the side features they forgot to build in any sort of real gameplay.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By grath on 1/27/2010 11:41:33 PM , Rating: 2

I couldn't agree more about the crafting. When I try to describe it to people I call it "magnificent complexity." I will never forgive them for the arbitrary launch date we begged them to push back, and for what they ultimately did to our game.

The gameplay was there, but it was so varied and spread out that while massive it was very low-density, and with the single character slot too much much of it was inaccessible at any given time.

If only vehicles or player city shuttleports had been there at launch (or soon after) everything probably could have been avoided. The systems were there and aplenty for the community to generate enough emergent gameplay for ourselves but I think all that hoofing it across planets just wore everyones patience down too quick to the point where the devs had to play their tragic Holocron wildcard to keep peoples attention. And of course once they bowed to the whiney carebear forum trolls it could only go downhill from there.

"Ok everyone, so to get your uber Jedi slot you can go ahead and abandon the professions youve spent a year attaining on the one character per server we allow you, and start grinding out all the 36 other professions in the game for the sole purpose of abandoning those the instant you master them and starting again, then maybe, if youre lucky, youll get your Jedi slot before we suddenly redesign the whole game to make your effort pointless"

I am hard pressed to think of another such epically momentous feat of sheer stupidity in the history of gaming.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By FITCamaro on 1/27/2010 10:29:08 AM , Rating: 2

As a beta tester I'll say you're largely right. Its not that ground combat isn't fun because of how they designed it. It just has bugs and lag. How its designed is very mass effect like. So it has potential if they can improve on it.

That said, no MMO is going to be bug free at launch. As far as content, I didn't get that far but there seemed to be a pretty good amount. I pre-ordered and will be playing mainly to hang out with my best friend who lives in a different state.

So I hope it works out. But I'm not playing for the long run. I plan to leave once The Old Republic comes out.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By JediJeb on 1/27/2010 2:06:59 PM , Rating: 2

I have looked at The New Republic also, but I am not sure it is what I will like. Seems very cartoonish to me compared to Star Wars Galaxies, and more linear in play. I am afraid that is what STO will be also, more like playing a single person game than interacting with a community. I might try both but will probably not cancel SWG anytime soon.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By Reclaimer77 on 1/27/2010 2:45:22 PM , Rating: 2

lol you are still playing SWG ?? Oh my god dude, that game was killed years ago. Time to move on.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By FITCamaro on 1/27/2010 5:25:34 PM , Rating: 2

Graphics are the last thing I look at in an mmo.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By jonmcc33 on 1/27/2010 10:52:13 AM , Rating: 3

quote:
From a business standpoint, I'm shaking my head in disgust at how publishers nail an exact launch dates on developers months in advance.

Software has been released with known bugs for decades. Everyone will shake their heads at it but it's just a fact of software.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By eek2121 on 1/27/2010 12:38:52 PM , Rating: 3

I don't think that was the parent posters point. The point was that the release date and open beta phase were predetermined. This means that if there are last minute critical bugs that creep up (and the beta had plenty such bugs) they won't get fixed until it's time for release. Things like database corruption, memory leaks, blackholed chars, etc. are all 'showstoppers' and could KILL the product. The fact they set a release date means they don't care about stuff like this. This means that even if the game blows up in their faces they will still release. It shows that they actually have little understanding of the SDLC. their methodology is 'test for a little bit and release no matter what'.

Every software product has bugs, it's the critical ones that can make or break a product.

Disclaimer: I'm a software developer.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By The0ne on 1/27/2010 2:32:15 PM , Rating: 2

That's why I envy consoles from time to time. Sure they're not immune to bugs, cough *MLB*, but for the most part they are static and pretty much free of nasty bugs :)

PC will always have bugs :D

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By kattanna on 1/27/2010 11:59:54 AM , Rating: 2

as someone who likes the star trek "world" more then star wars, i didnt "feel" like i was in a star trek episode, like they claimed.

maybe it was the constant bugs like beaming down to a planet and instead of my humanoid appearance, i was a little ship on the ground, LOL. or my away team not beaming down with me.

ground combat was completely MEH. target and hit 1 repeatedly to fire your phasor, OH BOY!! havent dont that before in an MMO ;>)

space combat... while better then ground, felt very 2Dish. you cannot turn up or down greater then 45degs.

and from what i have read from others, there is no real open exploration. just moving from one instance to another.

so.. maybe in a year i will check it out again, but as it stands now, i have ZERO interest.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By FITCamaro on 1/27/2010 2:02:17 PM , Rating: 2

You are correct. You move from instance to instance. Other players exist in space stations, large battles, and you can get autogrouped with others on quests if they have the same one and enter the same system.

It works rather well. I think they designed it this way as an easy way to have a single server. While yes EVE showed a single server with thousands of players is possible I think STO saw that and hoped for more players. EVE has done like 30k people at once. I think STO is hoping for hundreds of thousands which would be difficult in a single open world.

As far as reclaimer talking about crafting, it would be nice if they could add it in later and do a good job. Again, I don't care since I'll only be playing about a year.

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RE: Another wasted opportunity?

By kattanna on 1/27/2010 2:38:10 PM , Rating: 2

yeah, i was hoping space would be more like EVE i think. where you can go from system to system exploring.

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the game

By icegreenhemp on 1/27/2010 10:33:14 AM , Rating: 2

being part of the betas for this i can safely say the following. The fanboys are out in force. Cryptic has no idea what is going to happen on launch date, they already are having to order new servers to handle the pre load of ppl. When it launches we'll all be greeted likely by the unable to login server. The space combat is fun, however, the inability to have full 360' control of the ship is kinda lame, up down, left or right. Thats not space. But the combat is very fun, simple, but fun. As for ground combat...well when you make planets unexplorable and force the players to go on maps that are comparable i would say to the warcraft battle maps. very dissapointing, they need to fix this scale of the maps and make it free to go where u want.

RE: the game

By eek2121 on 1/27/2010 10:58:02 AM , Rating: 2

Have you ever even played the game? You have full 360 degree control of the ship. You can move up/down/left/right. There are no limits.

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RE: the game

By Reclaimer77 on 1/27/2010 11:00:10 AM , Rating: 2

The Devs didn't want people to be able to do rolls, fly "upside down" and other full maneuvers because they didn't want players to get, and I quote, "disoriented" with the true free flight of space.

So yes, there are plenty of limits in STO ships control.

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RE: the game

By eek2121 on 1/27/2010 11:10:22 AM , Rating: 2

During the beta I was able to roll and fly upside down, i have NO idea what you are talking about.

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RE: the game

By Reclaimer77 on 1/27/2010 11:18:37 AM , Rating: 2

Cool ! Must have been patched in recently ? Or the post I read was really old ? Either way, I stand corrected. Glad to hear it.

That's one of the things that bugs me about Eve, can't really fly freely.

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RE: the game

By Akrovah on 1/27/2010 11:42:10 AM , Rating: 2

Rolling and flying upside down wasn't in the Beta I was playing this past weekend... The limits of ship manuevers that I saw was being able to pitch from about -85 degrees to +85 degrees, with 360 degree yaw of course, but rolling limited to automatically banking when making a high speed turn.

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RE: the game

By JediJeb on 1/27/2010 2:21:50 PM , Rating: 2

From what I read the space combat is modeled more like naval battles than flight sims. True you didn't see much rolling and diving in the TV series or movies, but still it doesn't seem like space if you always level off to some artificial horizon.

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RE: the game

By grath on 1/28/2010 12:17:54 AM , Rating: 2

Yeah it sounds like it is Starfleet Command style rather than Bridge Commander style. SFC was derived from an old ST board wargame which used an adapted naval based role playing system on the 2D game board. As such, you may see your starships animation rotate along all three axis, or pitch up and down to travel 'above or below' a non-collidable object, but its only visual. As far as the game is concerned, your ship is only able to rotate along its y-axis, and the gamespace which ships inhabit lacks a traversible y-axis, such that all ships exist within the 2D xz plane.

Bridge Commander on the other hand offered the full six degrees of freedom within a 3D gamespace. To put it simply, it was way cooler. Think the first thing I did in the game was to pitch down 90deg and go to the far ventral tip of the starbase so I could look back up at it along its long axis. In SFC you mostly see everything from its side.

One of the biggest differences it makes to gameplay is that in 2D space your ship has 4 shield generators (fore/aft/port/starboard), whereas in 3D space you have 6 (f/a/p/s/dorsal/ventral). This added much to the strategy and tactics of combat and power management, also as the dorsal and ventral surfaces provided more locations for targetible subsystems, such that attacking from specific high angles was frequently necessary, and full rotational control made it quicker to turn your stronger side toward an attack.

In any case, I can easily see why they would want to go with the less complex option for STO. Dumbing it down for the noobs is SOP for MMOGs.

The more I read about STO the more I fear I will be severely disappointed. Oh well, theres still Stargate: Worlds to hope for...

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Warning signs!

By jrb531 on 1/27/2010 10:33:29 AM , Rating: 3

The lifetime subscription price of $240 ($300 if you count buying the game) is only valid until the game launched. Once it launches the lifetime increases to $300 ($360) which raises BIG red flags for me.

Before I commit to spending that kind of money on a game I want to try it. They will not even let you play for the first month before deciding to pop for such a high amount of cash. Why?

Are they worried that the game is in such poor shape that people who try it will not pay a lifetime subscription? Are they trying to get a ton of people to pay $300 on bind faith and if they end up playing only a fews months just pocket all that cash?

Such you can still get the lifetime after launch but they add $60 on top of this.

Remember that Lotro (Lord of the Rings Online) offers a lifetime for $199 and is a much polished and complete game (2 expansions already) so combined with the posts from beta testers - those not blinded by the Star Trek aura - may me pass on this.

I guess I'm happy they are even offering a lifetime as all but Lotro do not but why the....

Day before launch - $300
Day after launch - $360

Why are they so afraid to let people try it first? Why no "real" open beta like other games? (obtaining a free open beta key is almost impossible and often requires you to pay for some other service)

Oh well... I like Star Trek but not enough to play and pay for a bad game just because the toon look like characters from Star Trek and not Elves or Dwarves :)

RE: Warning signs!

By Akrovah on 1/27/2010 11:49:33 AM , Rating: 2

Well, the open beta was open to anyone who pre-ordered the game, and it is a fairly simple matter to cancel a pre-order if you didn't like the beta, so I don't know what you are talking about hared to get beta access.

Also, just because the lifetime costs $300 how does that mean you can't try it out first? Even if you pay for the lifetime I'll pretty sure you still have to buy the game just like you would if you didn't buy the lifetime sub. This purchase of couse comes with a month of play with no subscription charge, so you can "try it out" then and then pay for alifetime subscription if that is the option you really want to go.

In other words, what the hell are you talking about?

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RE: Warning signs!

By bobvodka on 1/27/2010 12:35:44 PM , Rating: 2

There were also LOADS of free open beta keys given out via various means during the open beta period.

The lower pre-launch price to me seems like a 'thanks' to those who pre-ordered and beta tested the game for them.

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Star trek !

By Soulkeeper on 1/27/2010 11:27:22 AM , Rating: 2

I love star trek, nice graphics.
Too bad, for them, I won't use windows to see what i'm missing.

RE: Star trek !

By The0ne on 1/27/2010 1:28:29 PM , Rating: 2

The graphics and animation is plain. Unless the story and gameplay rocks, I don't see my trekkiness going over to play it. I think I stick to FFXI and eventually FFXIV when it comes out later this year. Now that's graphic and animation for you.

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RE: Star trek !

By Reclaimer77 on 1/27/2010 6:51:17 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
I think I stick to FFXI and eventually FFXIV when it comes out later this year. Now that's graphic and animation for you.

Ah yes FFXI animation and graphics. Where dudes look like chicks, and chicks... well...who knows.

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Cheaper would be nice

By rburnham on 1/27/2010 1:16:25 PM , Rating: 2

STO is fun in Beta, but not 15 dollars per month fun. I wish more MMOs were around 10 dollars per month, because I would love to play more than one at a time.

RE: Cheaper would be nice

By jrb531 on 1/27/2010 4:07:14 PM , Rating: 2

I wish more MMORPG's would offer a $5 for 5 hours plan (or something close) and this way I could justify subscribing to a bunch of them and not having to pick one or two.

I wonder how many people would commit to $60 a year (for 5 hours per week or perhaps 10) but will not pay $15 per month because they just do not play enough to justify the commitment.

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Software should be free

By overlandpark4me on 1/27/2010 11:34:43 PM , Rating: 2

If they really wanted do it right, they should plop it on the Steam platform for free with a free month full version demo. Then go 11.99 a month, or 9.99 a year, with a lifetime option good for any new versions down the road. No 60 dollar up front cost and they let the game survive on it's own merits.

RE: Software should be free

By lightfoot on 1/29/2010 4:30:34 PM , Rating: 2

You missed a part.

Software should write its self, be 100% bug free, and be free.

And clouds should also be made out of cotton candy, puppies should never grow up, and people should never die.

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Awesome Game...

By eek2121 on 1/27/2010 10:55:37 AM , Rating: 2

I've been waiting for this one since it was announced many years ago. It didn't disappoint. I've been playing the beta and I must say, it's way more fun than wow ever could be. I'd recommend that even non trekkies try this game out.

To those complaining about the pricing, realize that most MMOs have similar pricing, with the exception of the special preorder deals.

well

By lenardo on 1/27/2010 11:03:02 AM , Rating: 2

if i was going to buy this- and i am not

pricing is industry norm. check

the lifetime account is worth it, if you think you will be playing for a few years,

remember you can subscribe to any of the plans and change -or cancel- during the first 30 days without occuring any fees

ie if you are a HUGE trek fan and buy the lifetime, if you CANCEL within 30 days of installation you do not get charged.

same goes for the monthly quarterly, yearly etc fees

Maybe it's just me..

By shaw on 1/27/2010 11:24:36 AM , Rating: 2

When a MMORPG announces a "life time" membership package that makes me skeptical of the MMORPG.

Nice

By Griswold on 1/27/2010 12:05:09 PM , Rating: 2

Good to see that europeans arent being treated like total idiots by this company.

I'm talking about the monthly fees. Some of their competition is asking for 1:1 exchange rates EUR/USD, despite EUR being valued 40-50% higher.

Granted, the difference is still a joke here, but like I said, at least they dont take the euros by the nose like kettle, subsidizing the rest of the world.

system requirements?

By tharik on 1/27/2010 1:12:14 PM , Rating: 2

What are the system requirements?

Is there a Linux client?

Klingons

By ZachDontScare on 1/27/2010 2:12:03 PM , Rating: 2

You just know 95% of the people who sign up are going to want to be Klingons 'expanding' their empire.

btw, is this basically set in the 'canonical' star trek, or that crappy new 'remimagining' star trek universe?

Lifetime Special

By knowom on 1/28/2010 1:58:25 PM , Rating: 2

The lifetime special is a great idea monthly fee's add up plus in all likely hood you could end up reselling your account later on for as much as you initially paid for or more given the account comes with free lifetime play.

uh oh

By HDBanger on 1/27/2010 9:46:31 AM , Rating: 1

Too bad Atari got their hands on it. It's days are numbered already.

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