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PlayStation 3 price cut unlikely for the foreseeable future according to David Reeves

In an exclusive interview with David Reeves, head of Sony Computer Entertainment Europe, Eurogamer had the opportunity to discuss with Reeves his views on Sony's current position in the video game industry. The interview covered a wide variety of related topics as Eurogamer peppered Reeves with several hard-hitting questions.

In contrast to Kaz Hirai, who was recently interviewed by The Official PlayStation Magazine, Reeves’ comments were more subdued. He also deftly danced around touchy subjects such as the decline in year-over-year hardware sales for the PlayStation 3 and the PlayStation Portable for the quarter ended December 31, 2008. Reeves explained, "The plan wasn't necessarily to hit sales, it was to hit a profit target - to do better than break even in Q3. The financial results show a break even in Q3 for Sony Computer Entertainment worldwide. So rather than then going for market share and sales, we went for profit, at least to break even."

Reeves disputed Microsoft's claims they are leading the PlayStation 3 in console sales numbers by one million units. He stated, "I don't want to talk about the competition too much, but Xbox 360 is not ahead by a million units. We sold through 500,000 PS3s in November. We sold through 1.1 million units in December. Our installed base now is very close to 8.5 million units in PAL territories. Our numbers show we are absolutely neck-and-neck." 

With regards to Kaz Hirai's recent controversial statements, Reeves had no comment other than to stay that he believed Hirai was misquoted and that he would not be making any similar statements about the competition. Hirai was quoted as saying the "Xbox 360 lacks longevity" and that Sony still has "official leadership" of video game industry.

On the health of the video game industry in general, Reeves believes that although it is not recession proof, the industry is very healthy. Reeves stated, "Of course there are going to be some people who fold. But the videogames industry is inherently very healthy. It's not a question of survival of the fittest, it's the survival of people who are professional, and don't just go around cutting their prices and destroying the market."

The comments may be a small jab towards Microsoft which chose to implement price cuts in 2008 that have helped spur Xbox 360 sales. He conceded there may be a need to cut the price, but Sony may choose to endure for the next 6 to 7 months. 

In response to the question from Eurogamer asking if the PlayStation 3 will remain the most expensive console on the market Reeves stated, "I think it will, yes. I'm not saying there are going to be any price cuts at all in the short term or the medium term. I'm not saying we don't need to do it - we are expensive. It is possible that as the cost [of manufacturing] comes down, we will be able to do it."

When discussing the variables that come in to play when a consumer decides which console to purchase, Reeves highlighted the benefits of the PlayStation 3 while taking a  jab at the pitfalls of the Xbox 360 all in a couple of sentences. He stated, "There are people who come in having done their research, thinking, 'PS3 has got all the games, it's free to go online, it's got a Blu-ray player. I know I'm not going to have to ring up the customer care line saying I've got three red lights.”

As a wrap up to the interview, Reeves reemphasized Sony Computer Entertainment's goal for 2009 is to break even or to make a profit. He said, "Europe certainly will make money this fiscal year, from Sony Computer Entertainment's point of view. We are already on track to do that. Even with the recession we've got to ramp it up, to keep that install base and that momentum going. The priority now is still to make money, or at least to get to break even."

The strategic decision to break even or make a profit with the PlayStation 3 is lessening the likelihood of a price cut. As a result, Sony appears to be falling behind in terms of consoles sold which is a quantifiable measure that is often used when measuring the overall success of a console.



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My advice to Sony...
By quiksilvr on 2/3/2009 10:32:15 AM , Rating: 4
There is no possible way of beating the 360 if a price isn't cut, so here are your options:
1) Get that Cell processor and RSX chip down to 45nm. It's now or never.
2) Have one SKU: a 160GB PS3 for $399. It may seem like a price cut but seriously, bumping up from 80GB to 160GB costs like $10-$20 per console.
3) BUNDLE BUNDLE BUNDLE! Give the consumers a choice in this. Buy a PS3 now, and you get to pick your game of choice and Blu ray movie of choice FREE! Entice the consumers with free stuff.
4) Give us wire options. Have three wire sets to choose from when we buy a new PS3 (you only get to pick one): a composite set, a component set, and an HDMI cable.
5) Start developing the PS3 slim NOW and have it ready by the holiday season of 2009. Release the slim and cut the price to $299 while keeping all the fun bundles and wire options.

Otherwise, you'll become the Gamecube of this generation.




RE: My advice to Sony...
By piroroadkill on 2/3/2009 10:33:56 AM , Rating: 5
Not fair, at least the gamecube was cheap, and had exclusive games. The PS3 has neither of these qualities


RE: My advice to Sony...
By quiksilvr on 2/3/2009 10:42:37 AM , Rating: 2
With reference to the competition before it dipped down, it was priced more than the PS2 at launch. It was in intense price wars last generation.

Further more, I am SO SICK AND TIRED of people thinking that just because the PS3 lost a few exclusives, it suddenly doesn't HAVE any exclusives anymore. Love 'em or hate 'em, the PS3 has frigging exclusive games.


RE: My advice to Sony...
By Reclaimer77 on 2/3/09, Rating: -1
RE: My advice to Sony...
By bighairycamel on 2/3/2009 11:51:46 AM , Rating: 5
Metal Gear Solid and Killzone fans beg to differ.


RE: My advice to Sony...
By Nfarce on 2/3/2009 12:21:16 PM , Rating: 2
As do Motorstormers like me...


RE: My advice to Sony...
By Nfarce on 2/3/2009 12:22:20 PM , Rating: 2
Oh yeah, and Warhawk was a blast...still popular too.


RE: My advice to Sony...
By quiksilvr on 2/3/2009 5:32:20 PM , Rating: 2
And don't forget LittleBigPlanet and the Resistance and Motorstorm games. Oh, and Gran Turismo.And Uncharted. And Ratchet and Clank. And the MLB and NBA games for the sports fans, those were pretty fun. SOCOM was pretty good too after all that firmware fix (those were annoying).


RE: My advice to Sony...
By robinthakur on 2/5/2009 5:46:31 AM , Rating: 2
Whilst anecdotally interesting, I can't imagine SOCOM was exactly a system seller, especially in its initial broken state. Little Big Planet undersold, as did Resistance, though not sure about Motorstorm 2. And that's basically it. Granted, even if a game is not particularly good, one is for more likely to pick it up given the scarcity of PS3 software releases. The last game I bought was LBP and I didn't think much of it: nice physics, nice presentation but gameplay was broken in too many areas (depth of play) and the level editor/multiplayer aspects felt so fundamental to enjoying the game that the fact that I never used them feels like a big part was missing. The next I buy will be SF4 or Killzone 2. After that, who knows, maybe Uncharted 2. Whilst I don't consider the PS3 dead in the water exactly, there's very little "wow" going on. Its hard to identify exactly what's missing from the PS3 campaign; Its lacking critical mass, its lacking positive word of mouth and most of all its lacking excitement. The marketing is so confused on it and the price can't be helping while the ports of games which are often slightly inferior or at best just as good as 360 games are way overpriced. Nintendo managed to make a tidy profit on Gamecube and Wii without pricing it out of the ballpark. If it didn't have the Sony name on it, would the PS3 even still be on sale?

While BluRay is nice to have, the speed of the disc transfer speed is starting to concern me more and more. I don't want to have to install all my software for half an hour before I can use it, because the drive is too slow to do on the fly reads. On cartridges, you hardly had any loading and whilst I appreciate that with optical media you will for many reasons, this seems like a step back, funnily enough. This is similar to the PS3 lacking graphics memory compared to Dreamcast. Gradually, developers figured out that the RAM which was there was very low latency and therefore streamed more data from the DVD drive, but here I think its a fundamental problem when the media is so slow and forcing you to install. It affects the gaming aspect too badly, and makes is seem like the PS3 wasn't even designed as a games machine first and foremost which is more than likely...Sony seem far more interested in churning out firmware updates so you can play Divx's. Great...


RE: My advice to Sony...
By neothe0ne on 2/3/2009 5:33:46 PM , Rating: 2
That may be true, but how many of those people bought a PS3?


RE: My advice to Sony...
By Jedi2155 on 2/4/2009 12:31:39 AM , Rating: 2
I did. Its the only console I've purchased since my PSone.

MGS4 FTW..


RE: My advice to Sony...
By afkrotch on 2/3/2009 11:57:12 AM , Rating: 2
I love Resistance and Resistance 2. Better than GoW imo. If your game isn't meant to be scary, then why the hell am I freaking running around in complete darkness so many damn times. If GoW2 fixed that, then I'll give it a shot, but so far, I haven't bothered to buy it. I did enjoy the Halo series.

Valkyria Chronicles, LittleBigPlanet, and so on I've got for the PS3. Love them. That's why I end up having both consoles, for the exclusives on both. Wii was a waste of time for me and quickly got sent to my sister. Waste of space and power.


RE: My advice to Sony...
By Hiawa23 on 2/3/2009 12:37:09 PM , Rating: 2
I own both the 360 which I own 50 plus games for, & only really bought the PS3 for it's exclusives, & only own 6 for it, looking forward to Killzone 2, but not sure this will be a good strategy for Sony. I bet they reduce the price of the PS3 by May09. Honestly, if I had to do it all over again, I would not have bought the PS3 cause it sits more than I play it, & I don't buy consoles to watch movies. I hope all the videogame companies do well, but alot of gamers to be are looking at price first & honestly, other than Blu-ray movies, the PS3 really has not separated itself enough from the supposed inferior 360, infact, I prefer my 360 to PS3, Live is still unmatched compared to PSN, & NXE is just more attractive to me, along with achievements & gamerscore, as I really don't like trophies at all , & Home has been a joke. I hope this sit back & wait & see philosophy doesn't backfire on Sony as I like many have alot invested in them.


RE: My advice to Sony...
By afkrotch on 2/3/2009 1:42:42 PM , Rating: 2
If you look at consoles sold, Sony's sit back and wait seems to be doing fine.

Trophies and achievements. Is there really a difference? Only thing I see is the achievements has some random gamerscore number attached to it. 1 achievement can be 10 gamerscore points.

They usually just annoy me, as the trophies/achievements are mostly gimme items or total waste of time trophy/achievement (kill 1000 ppl using a tootsiepop in team death match, while naked in a blizzard. Must be caught on Playstation Eye or Live Vision Camera).

Think the NXE is a toss-up. I hated that update. Can't see where or how to disable it and go back to the Blade. Since the update, I don't touch my 360 as often.


RE: My advice to Sony...
By quiksilvr on 2/3/2009 5:37:28 PM , Rating: 2
If anything the main appeal that PS3 had during launch and still has today are three main things:
1) Hardware reliability
2) Free online play
3) Exclusives

The Blu ray and built-in Wifi are more secondary reasons, the easy HDD upgrading and more openness of accessories were the tertiary reasons. Yes, the 360 is cheaper, but if you plan on having a console for 5+ years, the savings dissipate.


RE: My advice to Sony...
By rburnham on 2/5/2009 10:25:16 AM , Rating: 2
In the last two years, a good friend of mine has replaced his Xbox 360 three times. Yes, he is on his fourth system. The main issue is that the DVD player will stop reading games. The latest issue is freezing during Rock Band 2, possibly due to overheating of the power supply. The 360 is a lot of fun, but the hardware just feels shoddy and cheap.

Another friend of mine is on his third 360 since the system was released and he is ready to be done with it.

My PS3, that I have had for one year, has been running just fine. I find it odd that when I download a demo it does not just automatically install while downloading, but other than that it is a great system. Blu-ray looks sweet on my 40" LCD. If the PS3 got a few more independent games, like Castle Crashers or Braid, there would be no reason for us to keep a 360 around.


RE: My advice to Sony...
By BansheeX on 2/3/2009 3:33:57 PM , Rating: 5
I had the complete opposite experience as you. I bought a 360, the initial model that had no HDMI. The DVD drive spins louder than any disc-console I've ever seen. It must need to in order to maintain this generation's throughput with last-generation data density. It RRoD'd and needed repair only a few months later. I bought the HD-DVD add-on for $150 and sold it for $20 after the format collapsed. I was paying for netplay, it made me feel pressured to play even when I know I didn't have time for it. I probably wasted more money on overpriced upgrades for that thing than a PS3 would have cost me. I felt like a complete idiot and eventually traded it in. Almost all of the cross-platform games I wanted were on the PS3 at that point, including superior versions of BioShock and Oblivion. It's hella quiet for movies and games. The exclusives have a wide variety of genres, and aggregate game review scores are the highest of the three systems.


RE: My advice to Sony...
By lightmessiah on 2/4/2009 12:50:00 AM , Rating: 2
I think Sony stuffed up by removing backwards compatiblity from the console instead of wifi. That is why they missed out on my $. Cool that it can still play PS1 games (which I still do on my ps2) but doesn't do enough for me to justify the Sony tax.


RE: My advice to Sony...
By Bigjee on 2/3/09, Rating: 0
RE: My advice to Sony...
By Proteusza on 2/3/2009 12:42:02 PM , Rating: 3
All that tells you is who has the bigger marketing budget.


RE: My advice to Sony...
By Bigjee on 2/3/2009 4:24:42 PM , Rating: 2
Right....games' win accolades depending on marketing budgets.


RE: My advice to Sony...
By Reclaimer77 on 2/3/2009 1:24:57 PM , Rating: 2
Your right. Gamespot.com said it, so it must be true....


RE: My advice to Sony...
By afkrotch on 2/3/2009 1:45:23 PM , Rating: 3
Those games are voted on, not like they just picked it.


RE: My advice to Sony...
By Reclaimer77 on 2/3/2009 11:01:36 AM , Rating: 1
Yeah I have to agree lol.

The Gamecube just had bad timing. But from a business and entertainment for cost viewpoint, it was a home run.


RE: My advice to Sony...
By psychobriggsy on 2/3/2009 2:57:55 PM , Rating: 2
More likely not fair because it isn't that far off GameCube sales figures right now, will go ahead by a few million by the end of this year, etc.

And the PS3 has a whole ramp of exclusive games coming out this year, never mind the exclusives of last year. I mean, why do you make this stuff up?

Microsoft gambled with an early release of the 360, and it seems to have paid off despite the huge cost of the RROD. Hint, if your 360 is coming up to three years old and hasn't RRODed yet, it might be time to try and stress it a little ;) To be honest, I think the PS3 should have had 768MB RAM (256+512) to give it an edge for very little cost.

And who else is starting to get the tingles that the next generation console rumours should be starting soon?


RE: My advice to Sony...
By nuarbnellaffej on 2/4/2009 7:14:33 PM , Rating: 2
Are you speaking of system Ram, or video ram?

-Because if you are speaking of system ram, than that would not be "very little cost" as the RAMBUS ram used by the PS3 is actually quite expensive, especially when it was launched.

-If you you are speaking of video ram, then that would be ALOT more difficult than you think. Case in point, the RSX is built on a 128bit architecture, meaning that it can only access 256Mb's of memory at any given time(128bits*2).
So that extra 256Mb's of ram would be useless, unless the card was instead built on a 256bit architecture, which would be VERY expensive(compared to 128bit), and would cause all kinds of problems, mainly power draw, and heat.


RE: My advice to Sony...
By adiposity on 2/3/2009 7:42:16 PM , Rating: 3
Wrong, the PS3 has exclusives. Uncharted, MGS4, Resistance...just to name a few. Now, maybe it's not worth it for those exclusives, but they do exist. Personally, I love Uncharted, it's an amazing game.

I have all three consoles...

-Dan


RE: My advice to Sony...
By Bender 123 on 2/3/2009 10:35:13 AM , Rating: 2
But the GameCube made money...It was cheap and a market failure, but it was a bottom line win.


RE: My advice to Sony...
By SoylentG on 2/3/2009 11:01:00 AM , Rating: 2
So, according to quiksilvr, make your console more expensive, have only one tier and don't take advantage of people who want an upgrade at any price, and give away the profitable items (accessories) for free. Oh, and R&D for making consoles smaller is cheap, too. I'm sorry, but that is a terrible business plan you're posting.

There are other things they can give away and still retain profits. That was seriously a stupid post. I'm glad you're not at the top of Sony, they wouldn't even be remotely profitable without someone with business sense at the top.

Right now, the PS3 will be able to last another generation (tweaks, upgrades, and a slight overhaul), whereas the 360 will require a complete overhaul for next gen. They're just in different phases of life. I'm willing to bet that in 2011 when the next gen console war is in full swing, we'll be having a much different argument.


RE: My advice to Sony...
By afkrotch on 2/3/2009 12:08:24 PM , Rating: 2
With what both systems are running, both will be easy to update for the next round. Both pretty much use PC hardware, which of course has been improved upon since their release.

The cell proc has better yields now and probably higher clocked. I know IBM is pushing it for the server market. So the PS4 could get a higher clocked cell with all 8 SPEs enabled.

360's proc is based off the Cell's PPE, so anything new with the Cell, can be used with a 720 or whatever it'd be called. All they need to do is take three PPEs and slap them together. Bam! New Xbox proc.

The only difference is their choices in GPUs. They'd probably just go back to ATI or Nvidia for their graphics solutions.


RE: My advice to Sony...
By Proteusza on 2/3/2009 12:48:54 PM , Rating: 2
No, they dont pretty much use PC hardware. They use custom designed GPUs and CPUs, and the XBox 360's CPU isnt like one Cell PPE, both are based on the PowerPC architecture but not necessarily identical or compatible.

Who knows what the next generation might hold? I imagine both Sony and Microsoft are looking enviously at Nintendo, who are able to sell a box that contains outdated mostly off the shelf hardware for nearly the same price as their custom designed hardware. The Wii costs a fraction to make but sells for more than an XBox. That, coupled with its high sales, means its extremely profitable for Nintendo. Both Microsoft and Sony would probably quite like such a business model - ie start turning a profit immediately as opposed to months or even years after launch - so this might mean that next gen's hardware might not be as impressive as you think. The next generation might rely more on marketing, casual games, and digital distribution than this generation, possibly allowing for lower spec'd machines and thus lower costs.

So, the 720 might just have a Core 2 Quad with an 8800GTS. You never know....


RE: My advice to Sony...
By afkrotch on 2/3/2009 2:33:32 PM , Rating: 3
Xbox 360 cpu is 3 modified PPEs crammed together. PS3 uses a cell processor. Cell processor is used in computers.

R600 was based off the Xenos. RSX was based off the G70. Either the GPU ended up as PC hardware or the GPU was designed off PC hardware. Minor modifications though, which I wouldn't be surprised if the next generation, they do exactly the same thing once again. It's simply cheaper to make minor modifications to existing hardware, than build completely new hardware from the ground up.

And I never said they were identical or compatible. "Both pretty much use PC hardware" is not "They use PC hardware." It'll always be modified, so it's harder to simply create a emulator on PC.

FYI, as of Dec 2008, Nintendo only makes $6 per Wii sold. Unlike Microsoft and Sony who are working to cut the cost of production on their consoles, Nintendo just sits on it's hands.

Also, I highly doubt either Microsoft or Sony will change the way they do business. Sure, Nintendo is making money hand over fist right now, as it never went into the red with the release of their Wii, but in the long run both Sony and Microsoft will be making more money at the end. The more crap your system can do, the more crap you can sell for it.

Both provide more than just gaming, which is being utilized by their customers. Now I think Sony is the biggest winner. Not so much in consoles, but in the fact that blu-ray won. I don't think anyone can dismiss the fact that the PS3 had a hand in that decision.

I'm also a big fan of electronic integration. Xbox 360 works well with Windows Media Center, Wmp11, or the Zune. PS3 works well with Wmp11, PSP, or other Sony devices for that matter.

One thing I can say, doubt either console will ever use an AMD/Intel based cpu. Would make it way to easy to emulate the games then.


RE: My advice to Sony...
By Aloonatic on 2/3/2009 3:03:10 PM , Rating: 1
Am I the only person thinking that this may well be the last generation of games consoles? Or at least games consoles as we know them.

Both the 360 and PS3 are essentially HTPCs with tweaked standard graphics cards and exotic CPUs that have been chosen seemingly to annoy programmers (intentionally especially annoying if certain Sony executives are to be believed) which are sold as loss leaders with money being made on accessories, games and blue-ray. The latter Sony only of course.

There isn't the need for these strange CPUs any more as we all know that graphically speaking, games are GPU limited. So in a couple of years time a simple quad core HTPC with a current GPU will be fairly affordable and be quite a significant jump in performance.

The convergence of technologies and markets is almost complete.

On the flip side, it would be nice if Sony released a little office suite and other general every day programs for the PS3, it would make the unit very useful and who knows, maybe I wouldn't bother building myself a new PC, just stick with my PS3 and perhaps a netbook and home server will be enough?


RE: My advice to Sony...
By afkrotch on 2/3/2009 3:20:09 PM , Rating: 3
The problem is that users, not the consoles. Most ppl simply want to pick up a game, knowing full well that it'll work without any hassles. If it's a 360/PS3 game, it'll work in their 360/PS3 console.

The console also needs to be somewhat different from a PC. Enough so that piracy is either a pain or provides no real benefits. Like the console getting locked out of Xbox Live/PSN.


RE: My advice to Sony...
By Aloonatic on 2/3/2009 4:19:43 PM , Rating: 1
These arguments seem a bit outdated to be honest.

The reputation for PCs being a pain is not so true these days. It's not like you have to boot your PC with different extended memory profiles and such like in the good old days of X-Wing or anything.

Game developers seem to do a pretty OK job of getting games to detect hardware and change settings to suit the hardware.

As far as piracy is concerned, there is plenty of that going on in console markets and there always has been. The modded xBox I had (and I'm sure many here had too) with XBMC was great, but I was never ever ever tempted to play pirated games of course, that would make the baby Jesus cry.

I'm not saying that PCs and consoles are identical now, but that they are certainly coming together like never before, which works both ways of course.

Maybe the HTPC (or pretty little PC box in the living room) will kill the console, or the console ably assisted by the netbook, will kill the PC.

As far as the consumer is concerned, what is the point in having the PC Vs xBox Vs PS3 Vs the wii when there really isn't the need for exotic parts and such which are only available to large companies with huge R&D budgets for good HDTV gaming?

Of course, that all depends on the developments in 3D gaming (and the huge increase in resources required) which may mean all the above is simply the nonsensical ramblings of someone who thinks that they know better, not for the first time.


RE: My advice to Sony...
By afkrotch on 2/4/2009 9:05:38 AM , Rating: 2
There's always been huge problems with PC gaming. One game not working with this processor/vidcard combination or this processor/os combination. That or it doesn't work cause this driver isn't compatible with this game while you run this other program in the background.

Yes, piracy does exist for consoles, but you end up getting your console banned from online use if you keept it modded. That's why your Xbox's ended up with a rocker switch to turn the mod on and off.

I don't see either the console or PC killing each other. I'd would say the console would kill the HTPC, if it weren't for the fact it's doesn't support every format available.

As for PC vs 360 vs PS3 vs Wii is all about ppl justifying the amount of money they spent.


RE: My advice to Sony...
By Aloonatic on 2/4/2009 11:58:29 AM , Rating: 2
I'm not saying all is perfect the world of PC gaming now but with a little effort PC gaming could be much easier The scenarios that you highlight are not that common, at least for people who actually want to game.

As for pirated games, you can't play most pirated PC games on-line either so I'm not really sure what your point is there.

What I'm saying isn't that one kills the other in some mortal combat style "finish him" killer death move but they merge into being one and the same thing, it's happening already really.


RE: My advice to Sony...
By afkrotch on 2/4/2009 12:28:44 PM , Rating: 2
I use to have tons of probs with PC games. I went back to WinXP and that kind of went away. Sure, no DX10, but looking at screenshot. Doesn't look like it does crap anyways.

A lot of pirated games you can play online. Some games, it simply looks like the companies gave up on some type of protection. Hell even pirated MMOs can be played online. Sure, not on the actual company servers, but on a private server. Add in things like Hamachi and the pirate scene for PCs isn't so hampered compared to a console.

I don't see the console/pc merging. I see a console becoming an all-in-on media powerhouse. I'm not surfing the web, reading email, typing word docs, etc on a console.

Unless you count in the PS3 or 360 loaded with Linux. At which point it's no longer a console as it can't play any PS3/360 games until you boot back into it's normal OS.

They feel more like a combination of gaming console and latest dvd/blu-ray/hd-dvd player/tivo/etc. Maybe the next step will be an intergrated stereo receiver.


RE: My advice to Sony...
By robinthakur on 2/5/2009 6:39:55 AM , Rating: 2
I certainly think you're right in that the next generation of consoles will go for a completely different business model. They will have learnt alot from Nintendo this generation, and its popularity, and the relative unpopularity of features which always seemed inevitable in the past like the whole networked media centre hub thing. How many of your target audience use these features? The failure of the PSX should have given Sony pause for thought on whether people (meaning the general public, not people with a gaming pc, HTPC, as well as all the other consoles)even want that sort of device. Nintendo has done well out of focussing on games and not trying to reinvent the wheel when it comes to everything but their controller.

This is Nintendo's ultimate revenge on Microsoft trying to jump a generation last time around. Repackage a higher clocked version of your previous hardware thus guaranteeing backwards compatibility, package it to look like a lifestyle-living room product, sell at a profit with a highly original control scheme, properly market to all the people who are intimidated or disinterested by the notion of a games console and win, whilst your rival is absorbing a $1 billion hit from defective hardware and has yet to make a profit dating back to the XBox1. Its fundamentally a different way of doing things.

The purpose of games consoles is to simplify the process of developing and playing games for a hardware platform which does not vary. This is intended to simplify development as there is only one configuration. If the initial development learning curve is so steep, the games budgets are massive and there is a huge risk to exclusivity, something has got to give.

Games companies including MS and Sony are shareholder-led. If their shareholders see Nintendo running away with a profit amd the market while their company is mired in losses, over the same period, they will judge that their company made the wrong business decisions and take appropriate action to ensure that next gen consoles are more flexible and less like huling juggernauts.

Consoles can be as customised and complex as possible but the development process must be properly documented and the various devkits must be at a mature stage prior to launch. This ensures a high quality and volume of games on shelves and stops games being as easily made for multi-platform.


RE: My advice to Sony...
By 3DoubleD on 2/3/2009 4:18:57 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not sure if I agree with your emulation argument. The original xbox used an Intel Celeron processor. During the time of the Xbox, emulators never amounted to much. People who wanted to play Xbox games bought one. The real incentive to use an Xbox (or Xbox 360/ PS3) is that

a) You know it will work. You just put the disc in and it plays, no installers or issues (usually)
b) You can easily play with other people on one machine
c) You can join an online community seamlessly to play and download additional content

If someone went to the trouble of emulating a game on their PC it is unlikely they will be able to do any of that. What they will get is a big hassel. Even worse, a computer costs more than a console, so why the hell would you build a computer to be permanently connected to your TV so it can emulate games that work perfectly on a half as expensive console. For the original Xbox the major drive was to be able to unlock the Xbox as a PC because it was essentially a really good deal on a low end PC. After the Xbox was unlocked there was some limited softmod piracy, but you could never play games on Xbox Live that you didn't pay for.

I agree with the other poster that the next console will use less exotic cpus. The only reason they used these retarded CPUs was marketing, which I admit was partially a very good move. To this day there are still people going on and on about Cell this Cell that when it doesn't even matter at all. Imagine if Microsoft had only included a dual core A64! It probably would have performed better, but it would never have came out on top in the school yard arguments. Times have changed though and it has become evident that releasing a console that can do 1 Tflop/s doesn't mean it will be a market leader. While graphics do matter still, so does gameplay and reaching out to the larger market. The next generation will focus less on boasting about raw computing power (which does not directly correlate to the overall graphics performance of a system Eg. PS3) and focus on affordable solutions that combine great graphics and gameplay with a friendly and interactive online distribution environment.

The next console will be cheaper to build, smaller, and cooler. It will play games at 1080p (not the bs 720p upconvert crap). It will have no disc drive but instead have a large hard drive (500 GB +). As for legacy support for disc based games, I'm not so sure. If they did a switch back to x86 then I would imagine all legacy games would be downloadable recompiled ($10-$15 each). It sucks to pay twice, but the truth is that you wouldn't download your whole game library and you would rather not have to use discs anyway. This business model puts all the money in the console developer's hands. They rent and sell games, movies, and TV shows directly to the user, no middle men. Also, with such a business model I would expect services such as Xbox Live to become completely free.


RE: My advice to Sony...
By Proteusza on 2/3/2009 4:20:08 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
FYI, as of Dec 2008, Nintendo only makes $6 per Wii sold. Unlike Microsoft and Sony who are working to cut the cost of production on their consoles, Nintendo just sits on it's hands.


Those figures are always speculation, and unfortunately only Nintendo knows for sure how much each Wii costs to make. I've heard that figure was much larger, but even if not the important thing is that its sold for profit, while the others arent.

quote:
Also, I highly doubt either Microsoft or Sony will change the way they do business. Sure, Nintendo is making money hand over fist right now, as it never went into the red with the release of their Wii, but in the long run both Sony and Microsoft will be making more money at the end. The more crap your system can do, the more crap you can sell for it.


Why would they not change business strategies? Lets put it this way - businesses are in business to make money only. Making games and games consoles is a means to an end. If making a pink polka dot covered games console with a pretty pink heart on top was the way to make more money than your competition, you can be sure everyone would be doing it. Because money is all that matters.

So now we look at Nintendo, and we see that, through their cost cutting on the hardware side, and their innovation on the control and marketing side, they have not only been able to get massive sales but also make profit off of each console. So now tell me why MS and Sony wont want to do that. Why would they not want huge sales and lower costs? Hmmm, I dont see it. What your console can actually do doesnt matter at all - we see that with Wii vs PS3 sales. The PS3 is a far more capable machine, far more powerful, but the Wii sells much better.

As for
quote:
The more crap your system can do, the more crap you can sell for it.


I know that what you are actually talking about here is attach rate. If a consumer buys a console, how many games will he buy? Cos thats where the money is. Well guess what? According to sales data, Nintendo's attach rate is as good as Sony's, if not quite as good as Microsofts. In fact, their first party attach rate is better than both.

I will admit that, if MS/Sony can find another way, other than Nintendo's, to make large amounts of money, they will. Just because it worked for Nintendo doesnt mean it will work for the other two in a few years time. But dont think the lesson hasnt been lost on them. They know that matching the Wii's innovation and marketing strategy will be tough, but they know it will be easy for them to match its cost cutting strategy.

You like electronic integration, and you like your PS3, but Sony likes its money more. Hell, Sony's profit dropped 95% in one year, I think they could use some.

The XBox1 used a modified Celeron, but I dont think another x86 CPU will ever be used because no company wants their games console though of as a computer. A friend of mine worked on an XBox game, and apparently for the user manual they werent allowed to use words like "network" and stuff, cos it was too computer related, and they didnt want people being reminded that the XBox was very similar to a desktop of the time.


RE: My advice to Sony...
By spikedbanana on 2/3/2009 7:07:34 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Unlike Microsoft and Sony who are working to cut the cost of production on their consoles, Nintendo just sits on it's hands


I'm not sure how much following you do but Nintendo has made changes to their system boards. You should check out the black market on the Wii. You'll see how many different system board are actually out there. Nintendo hasn't been sleeping.

The $6 they are making is more probable at release but Nintendo is making more now than what is being posted. When people call the Wii a Gamecube V1.5 they weren't kidding. When you take exsisting hardware that works and then tweaking with "yesterdays" hardware upgrades, you're bound to make money from day one and when the hardware components gets cheaper as time goes by, they make more money. Look at the price of memory in general between now and 2 or 3 years ago.

MS and Sony are probably studying Nintendo's stragedy of their Wii and will adopt this to their next system. Don't use the latest and greatest technology. Instead, use what works now, tweak it and turn a small profit from launch and make more money as the system ages.


RE: My advice to Sony...
By afkrotch on 2/4/2009 9:51:13 AM , Rating: 2
Hardware components pricing fluctuates. It's an up and down cycle, but we aren't talking about PCs here. Cost of manufacture drops as they gain higher yields or do hardware revisions to reduce cost.

As of now, look at it. Nintendo doesn't seem to care about upping their manufacturing, nor are they doing revisions to reduce cost.

Then there's the cpu/gpu components. They don't drop in cost, til they are shrunk. They are specially built for the specific machines. Over time the cost may go up, if they don't shrink the die. If you're swapping over your plants to 32nm or whatever and your gpu/cpu are at 90nm, your stuck having to keep a plant at that.

If it's too old, the price ends up costing more than the latest. 2 gig DDR-400 kit - $54. 2 gig DDR2-667 kit - $21. 2 gig DDR3-1066 kit - $40. "yesterdays" hardware is not what you want "today" if cost is a concern.

MS and Sony sure as hell aren't looking at Nintendo's strategy. Completely leave out your hardcore gamers market. That'd be just stupid. Not to mention, both sell downloadable expansion, movies, etc. Look at total game sales and where Nintendo stands. It's not first.

The more technologically advanced your hardware, the more cost you can cut in it's production and the higher profit margin you'll make. Yes, you start selling the console at a loss, but usually make it back within a few months. Wasn't the case with the PS3, but I believe they are selling it at cost now and both companies can still drop the cost even more, while maintaining a higher retail price.


RE: My advice to Sony...
By nuarbnellaffej on 2/4/2009 7:25:44 PM , Rating: 2
Actually the Xenon is not based of the Cell's PPE, nor vice-versa. The Cell processor consists of a PPE, surrounded by 8 SPE's, which are fed tasks by the PPE. The main problem of the Cell proc. is keeping all those SPE's busy, people fail to realize that it is a processors cache, and task management that makes a difference not its measured speed(GHz) or the number of cores it possess.

Not to mention the consoles' processors use an in-order method of execution, which is a major handicap, when compared to PC CPU's.


RE: My advice to Sony...
By rohith10 on 2/3/2009 1:06:48 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Right now, the PS3 will be able to last another generation


Don't think so. The Cell may be powerful, but that power is not going/designed-to-go into the right areas. Moreover, regardless of how powerful the Cell can be, it can't magically pull data off empty space. The memory a PS3 carries is barely adequate for today's games, let alone those of the future.


RE: My advice to Sony...
By afkrotch on 2/3/2009 2:41:16 PM , Rating: 2
2011? That seems way way way too soon for the next generations of consoles. Hell, they have yet to even fully tap out these consoles right now. Also, it's like every quarter, some new type of functionality is thrown in. I really wouldn't be surprised if both the 360 and PS3 can hit 2015.

Everyone seems to be pretty happy with the quality of the graphics and not everyone even has an HDTV yet, let alone a connection to fully utilize either console.

I can't even see the Wii getting replaced and it's whole concept means it really doesn't need to be.


RE: My advice to Sony...
By nuarbnellaffej on 2/4/2009 7:38:59 PM , Rating: 2
Please elaborate on "tweaks, upgrades, and a slight overhaul".

What exactly do you mean by this?

I mean, its not like they can do anything that increases the performance of the console, such as increasing clock speeds, or putting in a more robust GPU, console makers can only make upgrades that reduce manufacturing cost, or reduce power draw, or operating temperature i.e. dieshrinks.

My point is, if they did do something that dramatically increased performance, than they would alienate the existing console base, and the developers will no longer be developing for 1 PS3, sorry but this is not the PC gaming market...

Furthermore, do you actually think the PS3 can weather another generation!!? If for example Microsoft launched the Xbox 720(?) right now, they would likely include parts that are at least comparable if not superior to current high-end PC components, which you obviously have no acquaintance with, or else you would realize how outdated the PS3's GPU is(based on G70!!).


RE: My advice to Sony...
By Freddo on 2/3/2009 11:22:05 AM , Rating: 2
I agree, they should do the 45nm thing ASAP and make it energy efficient enough so they can make a slim model. I also think they should bring back PS2 compability. I have about 50 PS2 games, and my PS2 is dying.


RE: My advice to Sony...
By dj LiTh on 2/3/09, Rating: 0
RE: My advice to Sony...
By chick0n on 2/4/09, Rating: -1
RE: My advice to Sony...
By scrapsma54 on 2/4/2009 8:56:55 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
my advice to you is to stfu already. Sit at home and whine because you dont know shit about PS3.

What, is ps3 ur homeboy? Seriously, its just a product from egomanical sony.
I know where sony failed miserbly.

See sony thought it could up its marketability with more features built in rather than add-ons. Thus this jacked up the prices, and since not all the built in features would be used by many, it scared away customers. I think Microsoft was genious in making a cut down console to only function as a game player and media extender, with the option of purchasing one with a hard drive for dlc and Multiplayer.

Then Comes thr programability, all I have to say is, I feel bad for whoever has to touch that code cause it would frustrate me to the point of pulling out my hair.

Next comes the lack of exclusives, not many people really knew about killzone and people have been waiting for killzone 2 and MGs4 since Ps3 was first announced. Microsoft has finally delivered on all its promises. What has sony delivered? A broken extra function blu-ray player with only 2 or 3 notable games?


RE: My advice to Sony...
By Icelight on 2/4/2009 10:19:17 AM , Rating: 2
You must have extremely high standards for games if you consider the PS3 to have only 2 or 3 notable games...

I own both consoles and in terms of exclusives the PS3 beats out the 360 in every genre, except for (J)RPGs. (Honestly didn't see that one coming, I would have never expected the 360 to be the king of RPGs!)


RE: My advice to Sony...
By afkrotch on 2/4/2009 12:10:52 PM , Rating: 2
I'd say the PS3 and 360 both have equal number of crappy JRPGs. Hardly enough good ones worth mentioning for either console. Now if all you mean is RPGs that only the Japanese have, then yes. The 360 definitely wins out on that.


RE: My advice to Sony...
By Icelight on 2/4/2009 4:37:44 PM , Rating: 2
True, true. There's only 3 JRPGs on the 360 I'd consider worth mentioning and...0 for the PS3. (of those that are out now)

The PS2 still continues to destroy the newer consoles in that (sub)genre...


Price Cuts ??
By Reclaimer77 on 2/3/2009 10:27:27 AM , Rating: 5
Sony, you are about a year too late in announcing price cuts for the PS3.

Side note, what is it about Sony rep's that make me want to choke them ? Every time I read a quote from one. Is being a pretentious condescending windbag a requirement to work at Sony or something ?




RE: Price Cuts ??
By Reclaimer77 on 2/3/2009 10:35:54 AM , Rating: 5
For example.

quote:
Reeves explained, "The plan wasn't necessarily to hit sales, it was to hit a profit target - to do better than break even in Q3. The financial results show a break even in Q3 for Sony Computer Entertainment worldwide. So rather than then going for market share and sales, we went for profit, at least to break even."


So the plan was to keep the price of the PS3 higher, for longer, to make a target number of profit. Forget unit sales ?

Great market strategy there ! No wonder Sony's gaming division isn't bleeding cash.... oh, wait.

quote:
Reeves stated, "Of course there are going to be some people who fold. But the videogames industry is inherently very healthy. It's not a question of survival of the fittest, it's the survival of people who are professional, and don't just go around cutting their prices and destroying the market."


You have to love this gem. Honestly, this is the biggest crock a Sony rep has claimed in days. That lowering prices to increase sales, thus increasing the total number of console gamers, is unprofessional and can "destroy the market" !!??!!

On behalf of those like me, thank you Sony for staying professional and working hard to keep making the PS3 a bad buy that's higher than the competition while not offering a proportionally higher value ! GOOD WORK !

Did this guy even take Business 101 ??


RE: Price Cuts ??
By Bateluer on 2/3/2009 10:55:19 AM , Rating: 4
Seconded. If Sony wants to move the PS3 off store shelfs and into the hands of their customers, they need to get the price down. Previously, its BluRay capabilities were motivation because the price of a standalone BD player was more than the PS3. Its not the case any more. The PS3 needs a minimum 100 dollar price cut to become competitive.

A 'killer app' wouldn't hurt them either. Their previous money makers are all available on competing consoles now.


RE: Price Cuts ??
By Reclaimer77 on 2/3/2009 10:58:16 AM , Rating: 4
Yes but your using logic, common sense, and a viewpoint of a consumer.

Those are three things Sony obviously can't relate with.


RE: Price Cuts ??
By AlexWade on 2/3/2009 12:45:59 PM , Rating: 3
I was ordering a new DVD burner on Newegg. LG and Samsung and Asus have theirs at $25-$28. Sony has theirs at $56. When you buy Sony, you are paying markup for the name. Vaio computers are overpriced too.


RE: Price Cuts ??
By afkrotch on 2/3/2009 3:02:00 PM , Rating: 2
RE: Price Cuts ??
By fishbits on 2/3/2009 11:27:35 AM , Rating: 2
That "killer app" is really key. There were compelling reasons for all 3 consoles. The 360 and Wii had games out that I really wanted to play. AFTER that, their platforms began to look more appealing, and now I own both. Hit games that promise big fun make those wanting consoles look at the game's platform with rose-colored glasses, and the others lose luster.

To generalize, PS3-exclusive games struck me more as tech demos. Great still screenshots, but seeing them demoed they just looked to have bland concepts and gameplay compared to 360 and Wii. Some even sacrificed fluid framerates for screenshot eye-candy, so hands on they suffered compared to pics in magazines or corporate Powerpoint presentations.

Games released for both 360 and PS3 seemed to run just fine on both, no reason to pay more for PS3 if not for exclusives. Good exclusives on 360, including cheap, fun "pick up and go" games like Geometry Wars. And of course Xbox Live. Then Wii... came out cheap, innovative controllers, downloadable classics, appeal to non-core gamers, and games that put fun over FLOPs utilized.

Bottom-line problem? Sony didn't bring as much fun with their platform, which is also the highest priced. It's a good system to be sure, but only fanbois buy consoles based on technical specs. Gamers buy them based on gaming. Sony should have given more thought to this instead of "We'll ride around on Final Fantasy's shoulders... wait, whoops! Well, Sackboy will save our console."


RE: Price Cuts ??
By afkrotch on 2/3/2009 12:30:22 PM , Rating: 2
Sony seems to do fine, seeing as they're closing in on Microsoft.

28.5 million 360s sold and 21 million for the PS3. Own both and see no real difference between the 360 and PS3. Both have one or two decent exclusives, then the rest of them blow beyond belief. Both have cheap, fun "pick up and go" games. Both have an online service. Difference I see is the PS3 has a lot more built-in features, like wireless, blu-ray, etc. Course you end up having to pay the higher cost for it too.

I lean more towards the PS3, as it wasn't released with flaws, region-free games, blu-ray, and controller I'm familiar with.

Not to say I don't enjoy the 360. I'm on my 3rd Xbox 360 (first 2 broke within less than a month), I bought a 4th one so I can play US and Japanese games. I'll probably replace my 3rd one with a newer Japanese arcade. That way I get the HDMI and smaller cpu/gpus. Then have to re-mod it, as it'd use a different casing.


RE: Price Cuts ??
By bebesito21 on 2/3/09, Rating: -1
RE: Price Cuts ??
By Reclaimer77 on 2/3/2009 11:08:29 AM , Rating: 4
quote:
Yeah you are so right! A company trying to make money on a product is a stupid idea, idiots!!!


You can make money without bleeding a market dry. No matter what you say, the consumers have spoken. The PS3 is not the Holy Grail of entertainment, and it is still overpriced.

quote:
If a company is selling their consoles at a loss


Whoa there ! Who said anything about selling at a loss ? Price cut doesn't equal no profit per unit. Your kidding me !

quote:
The PS3 is supposed to last 10 years - they have time to get this straight.


Define "last" ??

My old Atari probably still works. But you and I both know your statement is a joke. Consoles only "last" until next biggest console is released in time for the Christmas console rush.

Sure they have time. Sony is a large company and will absorb any amount of cash its gaming division bleeds and wastes. For some reason though, you choose to defend them for this.


RE: Price Cuts ??
By Lightnix on 2/3/2009 11:23:48 AM , Rating: 2
He means how Sony claims the PS3 will have a lifecycle of 10 years, presumably before the PS4 comes out. Of course that's stupid because they'll be extremely late to market with their next generation console and the PS3 will have several years of 'being the underdog' technologically against the 360 and Wii's successors, whilst still probably being priced similarly to them.


RE: Price Cuts ??
By afkrotch on 2/3/2009 1:02:09 PM , Rating: 2
PS2 - 9 years and still going. Doing pretty well.
PS2 - underdog compared to the 360, Wii, PS3. Again, still doing pretty well.
PS3 - came out a year after Xbox 360. Closing the gap on the 360 pretty rapidly. 28.7 mil 360s sold. 21 mil PS3 sold and did so while a year behind.

Why would the PS3 cost anywhere near as much as the 360 or Wii's successors? Does a PS2 cost as much as a 360 or Wii? Can't say much for the Gamecube or Xbox. They disappeared quickly off the market, once their successors came out.


RE: Price Cuts ??
By Reclaimer77 on 2/3/2009 1:19:35 PM , Rating: 2
Legacy consoles like the PS2 will always have a place in the market, but it's hardly relevant to this discussion.

There are guys out there playing Mario Brothers on the first Nintendo. So what ? Do you think they are the ones Sony and MS have as a market demographic ??

Plus nowhere in your argument is that fact that the PS2 has been re-released several times. Modernization has allowed it be be made in a MUCH smaller form factor than the original, while consuming less power AND being cheaper to make.

Trying to make the argument that the PS3 has more market longevity than the 360 or WII as a CONSOLE is also wrong. It's only going to see a longer life because for most people it is their only Blu Ray player.

Gamers will ALWAYS rush out to buy the next gen consoles.


RE: Price Cuts ??
By afkrotch on 2/3/2009 4:02:53 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Legacy consoles like the PS2 will always have a place in the market, but it's hardly relevant to this discussion.

There are guys out there playing Mario Brothers on the first Nintendo. So what ? Do you think they are the ones Sony and MS have as a market demographic ??


If Nintendo was still making the original NES and games were still being produced for it, then yes. I would say they'd have a market demographic for it.

quote:
Plus nowhere in your argument is that fact that the PS2 has been re-released several times. Modernization has allowed it be be made in a MUCH smaller form factor than the original, while consuming less power AND being cheaper to make.


And? Look at both the 360 and PS3. How many times have they been updated since release? New optical drives, new hard drives, smaller cpus, updated cooling, smaller wattage power supplies, ports added, ports removed, etc.

quote:
Trying to make the argument that the PS3 has more market longevity than the 360 or WII as a CONSOLE is also wrong. It's only going to see a longer life because for most people it is their only Blu Ray player.


Unlike both Microsoft or Nintendo, Sony likes to keep around their old gen console. When the PS2 came out, they still continued selling the PS1. For a total of 6 years after the PS2 was released.

The Xbox was dropped a year after the Xbox 360 release. Same as the Gamecube. PS2 is at 2 years and doesn't look like it'll be discontinued anytime soon. Hell, there's new bundles of it and tons of new games coming out for it.

quote:
Gamers will ALWAYS rush out to buy the next gen consoles.


Yes, but that doesn't mean they will ALWAYS get rid of their old console.

I have a US 360, Japanese 360, Japanese PS3, Japanese PS2, US PS2, PSP, and 2 gaming PCs. Had a Wii, but hated it. Gave it to my sister. Plan on replacing my Japanese 360 with an HDMI version, my US PS2 with a slim-line, my PSP with a PSP-3000, and picking up a DSi. Maybe get a 1seg for the PSP, if I move back to Japan.


RE: Price Cuts ??
By akugami on 2/3/2009 8:34:04 PM , Rating: 2
The NES was around well after the SNES and Genesis were released. That's what happens when you are the top selling console of that particular generation. There was even a top loading NES redesign a couple years after the SNES was released.

One of the reasons I call the "10 year life cycle" mantra by Sony and blind fans is that they conveniently ignore the fact that any console with a viable life well after 6 years is usually one that is in the lead. Again, I point to the relatively long lifespan of the NES and further evidence is the longevity of the original Gameboy. And keep in mind the games market was nowhere near the size it was when the PS1 came in and certainly not anywhere close to the size the market was after the PS2.


RE: Price Cuts ??
By afkrotch on 2/4/2009 11:43:14 AM , Rating: 2
NES stuck around for about 4 years after the SNES release. No point mentioning the Genesis, as it wasn't a Nintendo product and they didn't have a replacement when it released. The NES had a long lifespan, cause it had no competition. Same thing with the Gameboy.

A console doesn't need to be in the lead to have a long life span. It just needs a good install base and good amount of developers. As of right now, the PS3 it's closing in on a tie with the 360. I don't feel the Wii compares to them, I don't really care how much they sell.


RE: Price Cuts ??
By gaakf on 2/3/2009 3:02:35 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Can't say much for the Gamecube or Xbox


Oddly enough however, it appears the original xbox is still played more than the PS3 despite being off the market. If that doesn't say something, I don't know what does.

http://www.dailytech.com/PlayStation+2++Most+Playe...


RE: Price Cuts ??
By afkrotch on 2/3/2009 4:08:27 PM , Rating: 2
It's cause of the Xbox having a good online service. Makes Halo/Halo 2 last long and I'm pretty sure that'd probably 100% of what it's being used for.


RE: Price Cuts ??
By afkrotch on 2/3/2009 12:39:55 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Whoa there ! Who said anything about selling at a loss ? Price cut doesn't equal no profit per unit. Your kidding me !


Sony is still selling the PS3 consoles at a loss. A price cut would just put them further into the hole.

quote:
Consoles only "last" until next biggest console is released in time for the Christmas console rush.


Yep. That's why for the past 3 years, the PS2 has still been selling like hotcakes and is constantly having new games made for it. I wouldn't be surprised if it has more exclusive releases than the other consoles these past 3 years.


RE: Price Cuts ??
By Reclaimer77 on 2/3/2009 1:23:13 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Yep. That's why for the past 3 years, the PS2 has still been selling like hotcakes and is constantly having new games made for it. I wouldn't be surprised if it has more exclusive releases than the other consoles these past 3 years.


Okay you keep bringing up the PS2 like it's some kind of trump card. So answer me this, if your right, why was the PS3 made in the first place ?

After all, why compete with other next gen consoles, right ? The PS2 is still selling like "hotcakes" !!!


RE: Price Cuts ??
By akugami on 2/3/09, Rating: 0
RE: Price Cuts ??
By foolsgambit11 on 2/3/2009 2:20:06 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly. I think he meant to say "destroying our market", not "destroying the market".

Apparently, there's nothing more ignoble than producing competitive products at lower prices. I know there's a different business ethic in Japan. Is this part of it?

Or maybe I need to reparse his statement.

"Of course there are going to be some people who fold. But the videogames industry is inherently very healthy. It's not a question of survival of the fittest..." So he's saying that the video game industry as a whole will survive. It's not a question of survival of the fittest, we know the fittest will survive.

The question that is left, "...it's [the question's] the survival of people who are professional, and don't just go around cutting their prices and destroying the market." In other words, the question is whether Sony will survive.

So really, the Sony rep just stated that he's concerned about the survival of the company in this economy. He just said it in a convoluted way so that people wouldn't immediately dump their Sony stock and stop buying PSes.


RE: Price Cuts ??
By Elementalism on 2/4/2009 9:15:04 AM , Rating: 2
The destroying market complaint sounded like sour grapes. If Sony was able to reverse the role they would in a heart beat. Basically he is admitting defeat in that they cant possibly compete on cost and all he can do is whine about it.


RE: Price Cuts ??
By afkrotch on 2/4/2009 11:58:25 AM , Rating: 2
Sony can easily just swallow the cost and drop the PS3 price, but why? PS3 is closing in on the 360 and doing so at a higher price point and a year later to market. If the trend continues, they'll probably surpass the 360 in sales by 2010.

I personally don't care. So long as good games continue coming out for both, I'm happy. One thing that pleased me though. Found out the PS3 is 120v/240v. Don't know why they only label it as 120v or 240v.


Good Planning
By Bender 123 on 2/3/2009 10:33:53 AM , Rating: 2
At least they are setting the bar low...but it hurts even more when you still miss.

I love the PS3, but they really bungled it. It really is a good value, but in the current market, the value is overshadowed by price.

At $199, $20 harddrive from Xbox.com, Live and a mile long list of games; the $200 premium for Blu-Ray is not worth it to me.




RE: Good Planning
By Nfarce on 2/3/2009 12:35:33 PM , Rating: 2
Well for many it's more than just a gaming console and BD player. It's also a home entertainment centerpiece to show off pictures and home videos - and a portable one at that for taking to friend's parties and relative's homes during the holidays. Some probably also use it as a TV based web surfer, although I myself have a laptop by the couch for that. In fact, I find myself using it about 1/3 for gaming, 1/3 for BD playing, and 1/3 for home entertainment.


RE: Good Planning
By drakore on 2/3/2009 1:14:01 PM , Rating: 2
I completely agree. I even got my dad one and he doesn't even game. It is an easy and fast way for someone to display their pictures on the TV, stream HD movies from a network share, and watch blurays. Building an HTPC would be close in cost, but it is not nearly as easy to use as the PS3.


Letter to the editor
By Aloonatic on 2/3/2009 11:43:03 AM , Rating: 3
Please, before posting these fanboy bating articles which are bound to create the same old threads that we've all read a hundred times before, could you just add a little section at the bottom to show the number of units sold,attach rates and any other information that may be useful.

It seems that so many people here just look at the facts that suit their argument and completely ignore others, running off in their own fantasy worlds where the future is defined solely on their own thoughts rather than having a grounding in reality, fact and figures.

To read many of these threads you would think that Sony had sold 3 units, 2 of them to their best friends and the xBox had sold millions, all at a massive profit and MS have not lost any money on them what so ever, only stupid arrogant Sony would do or say stupid things.




RE: Letter to the editor
By walk2k on 2/3/2009 12:43:36 PM , Rating: 1
Amen brother. Oh wow another X is outsellng Y article... I'm sorry did I step in a time warp to 2006?

Does anyone with a brain (fanbots, you may leave the room) actually care if Sony sold 5,000 more units in November or whatever? Does it affect you at all, in any way? Not unless you are a shareholder I guess...

Both consoles are a good value. The PS3 costs more but you get more, especially if you have HDTV and want to watch Blu-rays. If not, then the 360 is a good deal too.

Buy the one you want and get over it already. Nobody cares.


RE: Letter to the editor
By Icelight on 2/4/2009 10:30:23 AM , Rating: 2
Exactly. The only people who care, or act that way, are those who feel the burning need to justify their purchase. Perhaps they could only afford one console, made their choice, and now feel as though they have to defend its honour in order to ensure that they never feel like they should have made a different decision.

I own them all and enjoy them all (well, a little less on the Wii's side, if I'm being completely honest ;) ) That's all I care about, my own personal enjoyment of a console.


Remember...
By Boushh on 2/3/2009 5:49:30 PM , Rating: 2
I see many people complaining about the Playstation 3 being to expansive, having more functionality than needed, missing killer apps, bla, bla bla...

When the Playstation 2 was introduced I remember I was furious because of the costs. IMO the DVD player (the added functionality) made the PS2 more expensive than needed (at least twice as expensive).

And look now, after 10 years...

All the other competing products at the time are no where to be seen, while the PS2 is still selling in the millions.

People don't seem to understand that the PS3 is here for the long run. It will still be sold, and games will still be made for it long after people remembered what a XBox 360 was, or a Nintendo Wii.

And I see many people around me who have a Wii, now buying a PS3. Why ? Because it is a game console, blu ray player, mediacenter, etc. all in one. Sure they can buy seperate devices, but that will only take up space, and probaly cost more.

Just give it a few more years. After all it's been here only such a short period...




RE: Remember...
By mircea on 2/4/2009 8:37:17 AM , Rating: 2
And you seem to ignore the fact others have pointed out, that the PS2 has survived for so long because of it's status as market leader, so developers continued making games for it knowing it's in the hands of everyone. PS3 is nowhere there, so why are you sure it's going to be here after Wii and 360, and not one of them? Has Sony patented the rights of keeping it's system alive once a new generation has been released? Are developers forced to making games for PS3 once new hardware will be out no matter how little market it has gained by then?
Yes the strategy of Sony was to have PS3 for 10 years, but I'm sure it was also to be in the lead in the first year. Now they will need to drastically change that. Sony has always thought that their leading position makes them right in their decisions. Observe how each generation PS to PS2 to PS3 it was always the most expensive console and each time more expensive than last. Yes the value is there but it's not something the market needs, it's something that some want. Those that wanted the value (and some fanboys) bought the system but the market has not accepted all that yet and so it's not placed it in a position to last those 10 years Sony hopes.


Sony's trump card was going to be Final Fantasy...
By Doormat on 2/3/2009 11:47:05 AM , Rating: 2
However since the announcement that its going to be on the 360 too, they really don't offer a compelling reason to use a PS3 instead of a 360. Hardware reliability, Bluray and my friends are the only reasons I have one (my friends all have PS3s so if I want to play online w/ them I needed to get one).




By afkrotch on 2/3/2009 1:29:18 PM , Rating: 1
Cept the 360 will end up with a port of FFXIII, I'm sure. So probably will look worse. That or it comes out a few months later.

If it does come out later, I don't see much point in putting it on 360. Like any good movie, spoilers kill it.


this article is misleading
By kattanna on 2/3/2009 10:35:56 AM , Rating: 2
at the top level we see a small pic of a couple hot display babes. with that in mind we assume there will be a larger view of said babes in the article, which there is not.

VERY misleading




Again, PS3 is doing fine
By Chaser on 2/3/2009 11:00:26 AM , Rating: 2
Re-price the PS3 -Nickelodeon version- for $199.

Then add on all the extra stuff as upgradeable accessories.




My goal ...
By unrated on 2/3/2009 2:13:42 PM , Rating: 2
My goal for 2009 is to "Date the girls in those picutres."




Highly unlikely
By SunAngel on 2/3/09, Rating: -1
RE: Highly unlikely
By karielash on 2/3/2009 10:56:03 AM , Rating: 5

People are not against Sony just for being Sony.

I am against the PS3 because to be honest it offers absolutely nothing of value for me.

People are not buying HD-DVD over Blu-Ray, they are buying DVD's in preference to Blu-Ray. In the current economic climate I see no reason to invest several hundred dollars in a system that will allow me to purchase movies at an increased cost over standard DVD's.

Which leaves the PS3, if I am going to play games I would do it on my PC, which has significantly better graphics than the PS3, if I want to have fun with some friends/family, we play the Wii, which may not have the state of the art graphics of the other systems, what it does offer is a lot of fun for a small price.

Look at any way you want, until Sony can offer a competitive solution to the console Market it will not compete in that market, with the economy tanking and people watching every penny they spend this trend will likely be exaggerated.


RE: Highly unlikely
By retrospooty on 2/3/2009 11:01:22 AM , Rating: 5
Exactly... In this economy, who wants to spend $400 for freegin console. Its just too much. It was too much 2 years ago and its too much today.

Also, people dont hate Sony for being Sony. People hate Sony because they are run by a bunch of detached from reality bungbuts, that make bad decisions, and release expensive proprietary products that hold back progress for the entire industry...


RE: Highly unlikely
By Gyres01 on 2/3/2009 11:22:03 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Exactly... In this economy, who wants to spend $400 for freegin console. Its just too much. It was too much 2 years ago and its too much today.


Yea right, if it was truly 400....with the BS taxes and an HD cable ( from 20-50 bucks) its more like 500 dollars.......


RE: Highly unlikely
By theapparition on 2/3/2009 1:21:28 PM , Rating: 2
If you're paying $20-50 for an HDMI cable then you're getting ripped off. Badly.


RE: Highly unlikely
By PhoenixKnight on 2/3/2009 5:07:56 PM , Rating: 2
You're not buying your HDMI cables from Best Buy, where the price is 5-10x what you can find them for elsewhere, are you?


RE: Highly unlikely
By SunAngel on 2/3/2009 1:11:48 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
... and release expensive proprietary products that hold back progress for the entire industry...


WTF! You mean to tell me that Sony, some how out of the 1,237,474 million chinese/indian technologists, they some how control the direction of the market? Who could ever believe that a company that makes s-itty products, charges an arm and a leg for them, used 3rd party technology that was capable of logging keystroks, and had the misfortune of issuing a batch of bad notebook batteries that could launch a rocket to the moon would be the center of the CE universe?

Tell me who, I would like to know.


RE: Highly unlikely
By Funksultan on 2/3/09, Rating: 0
RE: Highly unlikely
By TheFace on 2/3/2009 12:17:06 PM , Rating: 2
"I find it kinda funny that so many people think they have better market strategies than Sony can possibly imagine. Their track record speaks for itself. Trust me, they're fine."

Really?! Did you read the headline of this article? Their goal is to "Make money". Sony's profits were way down last year (so was everyone's, but they were worse off--lowest profit margin in 14yrs) also they're not expected to do any better next year (projected $3bn operating loss). Granted, these are the whole company's numbers and not just the PS3, but the PS3 isn't exactly leading the company through the recession either. The PS3 is expected to sell 10m consoles through the 08 fiscal year, and the PS2 is expected to sell 8m. Last I checked the PS2 came out in 2000 and it's doing almost as well as it's next-gen (or current-gen) brother.

IMO it's this whining and constant comparison to the 360 that shows Sony's woes. The line has always been, 'we're the more powerful and futuristic console'. Well that may be true, but if you can't sell them, what does it matter?

Movie sales stink btw. Blu-Ray and DVD. BR is gaining ground on DVD, but with how things are now it's like comparing my pile of poo to your pile of poo. One may be bigger, but they both stink. People are flocking to Netflix which may lead to streaming technologies becoming more accepted and better. Which console has an exclusive deal with them?

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/ind...

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/01/sony-vs...

http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/sony-p...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&si...

http://news.prnewswire.com/ViewContent.aspx?ACCT=1...


RE: Highly unlikely
By Funksultan on 2/3/2009 3:37:59 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Sony's profits were way down last year


ROFL... should we look at how many companies worldwide will be posting record low profits last year / this year? Cmon.

The point is that Sony is still a 90+ billion dollar company, and any way you want to slice it, one of the strongest in the world.

I dunno what you're trying to get at with the success of the PS2 vs PS3. XBox vs 360? 360 vs Vista? All pointless. If the PS3 were truly floundering, that would be something... but it's not. Maybe you understand the concept of install base with the PS2... maybe you're just ignoring it. Help me out here.

quote:
Movie sales stink btw. Blu-Ray and DVD.


Pretty much the same $20 billion dollars for all disc movie sales since 2002. How is that a pile of poo?

If you're going to try to link references, please try to find some with some useful, quantifiable content. Like...

http://thecelebritycafe.com/features/23493.html

Posting links saying "Netflix Subscription Service is Tops" is about as helpful as pointing out HD is nice to watch. *grin*


RE: Highly unlikely
By StevoLincolnite on 2/3/2009 10:58:21 AM , Rating: 2
1) Reason that is... Overpriced? and not able to meet the competition Head-on? (That being the Wii, Xbox 360 and the DS).

2) Yes it is, hence the price is a massive factor in buying the console, hence why they should lower the price to entice more people to buy the consoles, which in turn they make more money on the software which is the largest portion of income for a console, Possibly charge a small fee for online access?

3) Please... I loved the PS1 and PS2 as much as the next guy, but no way in hell will I spend that much on a console.

4) Hence why you choose another brand/model.

5) And why shouldn't they? The Customer is always right, the LARGEST issue with the PS3 is PRICE, I know allot of people who would buy a PS3 over a 360 or Wii if it was actually price competitive.

6) I haven't jumped on neither, I prefer streaming media instead. (I own zero DVD's because of that factor alone).
Hence Blue-ray/HD DVD/DVD/VHS is useless to me.

7) The one cool thing is the "Motion Sensing" controllers on the PS3, I would probably enjoy them more if they were better utilized in games, I think the next round of consoles might be a little more interesting, Nintendo will have the funds to produce a HD Console to compete against Microsoft and Sony, Sony may choose cheaper components to be more price competitive, and Microsoft... Well lets hope for a Halo 4! (I know you want to make one Bungie! And not Recon/ODST either!)


RE: Highly unlikely
By Gyres01 on 2/3/2009 11:25:10 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Please... I loved the PS1 and PS2 as much as the next guy, but no way in hell will I spend that much on a console.


Anyone have their PS2 hooked up with a component cable ?? Looks pretty darn good....and with games from 5 bucks used....its a great, great value.......IMO


RE: Highly unlikely
By Hiawa23 on 2/3/2009 12:51:57 PM , Rating: 2
Anyone have their PS2 hooked up with a component cable ?? Looks pretty darn good....and with games from 5 bucks used....its a great, great value.......IMO

I am sorry but I have had a PS2 since day 1, & other than the Sony exclusives & afew, I mean a few 3rd party titles, most of the games looked & looks terrible to me, with all the low res, extremely jaggied shimmering textures, which is why I preferred the Gamecube & Xbox1 last gen, but there is no denying, the PS2 is a great value, Sony needs to drop it to $99, though, but still a great value, that I have never been a fan of it's hardware.


RE: Highly unlikely
By BPB on 2/3/09, Rating: 0
"It looks like the iPhone 4 might be their Vista, and I'm okay with that." -- Microsoft COO Kevin Turner














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