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Print 33 comment(s) - last by MetaSyntacticV.. on Feb 20 at 6:28 AM

You'll get it when it's done

Sony officials have confirmed that the Playstation 3 will indeed make it out before the end of the year, but that's all the company will say. There's no word on the launch date, no word on pricing and no word on if they've decided to get rid of the boomerang controller.

At the 2006 Taipei Game Show, Sony was only able to muster up three mock-up PS3 consoles -- maybe Josh Robinson was on to something...

The PS3 will lag the Xbox 360 more in market share if Sony delays launch of the PS3 to the end of 2006, the sources said, noting that Microsoft predicted global shipments of its Xbox 360 will reach 4.5-5.5 million units by the end of June.

Read more here.


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Not excited by the PS3
By DFranch on 2/17/2006 12:24:31 PM , Rating: 4
I have several problems with the the way Sony has handled PS3.

1) What happened to PS3 being available in the spring? It seems to me that is what Sony said to stop people from buying the 360 when it first came out. It worked in Japan.

2) Now Sony says it will be out by the end of the year, but considering their initial prediction of this spring I wonder if this is another tactic to stall people from buying a 360 because the PS3 is just around the corner.

3) They have not even suggested a price range. stand alone blue-ray players are going to cost over $1000 dollars, how does Sony sell a PS3 for $400 - $500 without ticking off the companies selling stand alone players.

4) I don't like blue-ray. The disks cost almost twice as much. Sony has a habit of trying to shove proprietary technologies down out throats (memory stick, betamax, Blue-Ray, whatever their MP3 alternative is called (atrak or something)). I'd rather have a standard dvd player like the 360, and buy a HD-DVD player when they get cheaper.




RE: Not excited by the PS3
By DFranch on 2/17/2006 12:36:46 PM , Rating: 2
I also expect that microsoft will drop the price of the 360 once the PS3 finally does come out.


RE: Not excited by the PS3
By Alphafox78 on 2/17/2006 12:38:55 PM , Rating: 4
Sony = Proprietary = BAD


By KristopherKubicki (blog) on 2/17/2006 12:46:36 PM , Rating: 2
Typo. You meant Apple.


RE: Not excited by the PS3
By fhornmikey on 2/17/2006 12:58:05 PM , Rating: 2
Ok, couple important things to note:

1) ATRAC is not an alternative to MP3, it is a compression method used in MiniDisc players to eliminate the portions of the audio spectrum which the human ear cannot discern.

2) Sony did indeed claim the PS3 would be available in Spring, IN JAPAN. Never did they claim it would be available either worldwide or in the US during this timeframe.

3) Have you looked at the dismal numbers of the Xbox360 in Japan? Not only did it launch with 7 games (most of which were crap btw) but it actually sold less than the original Xbox did at launch. The gaming public in Japan trusts in Sony, and why shouldn't they, they haven't let them down yet. The Playstation/Playstation 2 is by FAR the de facto videogaming standard in Japan and there is no reason to doubt this trend will not continue.

4) Do you remember when the PS2 came out? DVD players were still $300+ and many were very reluctant to buy one, however the PS2 came out and has been cited by many industry analysts as one of the driving forces behind the success of DVD. It has been stated by many of these same analysts that the same thing is expected to occur with the PS3.

I think proprietary is not an apt description for Blu-Ray technology. Not only are there several companies other than Sony making Blu-Ray players, but all of these companies can also produce the disc. Blu-Ray is no more proprietary than HDDVD, not to mention the fact that there are a LOT more companies behind Blu-Ray than just Sony.

http://www.blu-ray.com/

You have to pay more for superior technology, it's always been that way and I don't see it changing anytime soon, it's just the way the world works.


RE: Not excited by the PS3
By MetaSyntacticVariable on 2/17/2006 1:42:07 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
1) ATRAC is not an alternative to MP3, it is a compression method used in MiniDisc players to eliminate the portions of the audio spectrum which the human ear cannot discern.


very bad description but that is precisely why it *is* a competitor to mp3 / AAC / ogg vorbis...

ATRAC is a audio compression (a) is used by sony on (almost) all their digital audio products from MD onwards.
mp3 is a codec which allows a combination of 1) perceptual (i.e. lossy) compression in certain limited ways and 2) lossless compression.
1) In effect defines a spec for players to playback which in turn defines how a compression engine might throw things away to reduce size.

ATRAC version X (for some X) basically does a different type of 1) and 2) (though with similar methodology).

ATRAC does have some nice design features (for all it's myriad annoyances).
Notably the 'container' it defines can have gapless breaks between tracks. Believe me once you encode the genius of "As Heard on Radio Soulwax" onto an ipod/itunes in AAC when you previously had it on minidisc you will notice the difference.

ATRAC is really now an umbrella term (sincle later versions of the codec branded as ATRAC bear little resemblance to the originals(b))

(a) technically you could consider this to also define the container - though it is only a container for one thing. same goes for mp3

(b) funny story - when designing the ATRAC mode used for MDLP modes in the 'second' wave of minidisc devices they decided to deliberately 'waste' space so that the 'block' size of the MDLP would be identical to that of the originals.
This waste of space (about 10%+) was solely to allow existing minidisc players with no awareness of MDLP to accept the discs data as silence rather than barfing about illegal discs.


RE: Not excited by the PS3
By fhornmikey on 2/17/2006 1:52:21 PM , Rating: 2
Awesome, I just got eductated... thanks for that.

I had never heard of anyone bothering to use ATRAC outside of minidiscs but it is indeed supported on all Sony mobile music devices from the MD era forward.


RE: Not excited by the PS3
By Araemo on 2/17/2006 2:41:52 PM , Rating: 2
Well, my Sony Discman(I bought it because Sonys used to be rugged, well designed pieces of consumer electronics) was one of the first discmen to support mp3 cds. It also supported "Atrac3Plus!" discs instead of mp3 discs.. And many earlier Discman players supported atrac3 discs but not mp3 discs.. Sony really tried to make it a competitor to mp3.

The player came with software to transcode mp3s to atrac3s and burn them to CD.. but when I did that, half the tracks wouldn't play on the discman. So I went with mp3(Even though it supposedly gave worse battery life on that player, and made for slightly less songs per disc) and was happy with it until one errant fall onto a resin floor killed the discman.


RE: Not excited by the PS3
By Questar on 2/17/2006 1:56:29 PM , Rating: 2
To the best of my knowlege, MP3 doesn't not allow for lossless. It's lossy by definition.


By MetaSyntacticVariable on 2/20/2006 6:28:38 AM , Rating: 2
<sigh> I wrote a rather longer replay which the site problems swallowed grrr.

short answer. I should have been more descriptive on that part sorry.
mp3 does not allow a totally lossless encoding(a). it does however contain a compression method applied post lossy compression to reduce any lingering entropy via a relatively general purpose compression algorithm (in mp3's case huffman encoding).

I was just trying to make it clear that the X format for any x likely contains multiple schemes of compression in layers. not very well it would appear.

not sure if this holds true if bit rate becomes infinity but pretty sure not the case


RE: Not excited by the PS3
By WileECoyote on 2/17/2006 2:14:13 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
4) Do you remember when the PS2 came out? DVD players were still $300+ and many were very reluctant to buy one, however the PS2 came out and has been cited by many industry analysts as one of the driving forces behind the success of DVD. It has been stated by many of these same analysts that the same thing is expected to occur with the PS3.


Actually when The PS2 was launched DVD players could be had for as little as $149 or less


RE: Not excited by the PS3
By nowayout99 on 2/17/2006 3:43:36 PM , Rating: 2
"Sony did indeed claim the PS3 would be available in Spring, IN JAPAN. Never did they claim it would be available either worldwide or in the US during this timeframe."

Sony never identified which market would get the PS3 in Spring. They're hardly talking about it at all except how supposedly awesome it'll be. All they've said since last E3 was "Spring 2006."


RE: Not excited by the PS3
By CBone on 2/17/2006 3:52:31 PM , Rating: 2
In response to #3, Japanese consumers would buy a turd in a box if it said Sony on it. Their fervor for all things Sony and their snubbing of non-Japanese hardware is hardly indicative of anything regarding the 360, other than making it more apparent that MS should just let Japan go. Focus on the US, get that system everywhere. Make like Apple and get on every freaking show possible. Give them away to celebs with big mouths.

M$ should release some gibberish made-up 360 capabilities and see how long it takes Sony to gin up some PR about how the PS3 does the same thing, only somehow better.


RE: Not excited by the PS3
By Lakku on 2/18/2006 11:32:31 AM , Rating: 2
Glad someone finally said it. Sony = Japanese = major league nationalists i.e. racists, meaning - Sony would buy anything Japanese because it was Japanese and therefore the most superior thing on the planet. They don't buy the 360 because it says MS... if it said Nintendo or Sony, it would have sold 1 million in a couple weeks.


RE: Not excited by the PS3
By Lakku on 2/18/2006 11:33:56 AM , Rating: 2
that Sony up there should read Japanese would buy Japanese, not Sony buying Japanese :-p sorry


RE: Not excited by the PS3
By DFranch on 2/17/2006 9:04:18 PM , Rating: 3
1) I'm pretty sure that Sony's early mp3 type music players only supported ATRAC. Sony only started including MP3 support because nobody wanted to use ATRAC. Sony would have loved to convert the world to it's standard, but nobody went along.

2) I'm pretty sure the PS3 is still not available in Japan either.

3) If you are trying to imply that the Japanese market has not bought xboxes is because they are discerning consumers I think your logic is flawed. The Japanese are very brand loyal. The PS3 could be total crap and they would still buy more of them then xbox.

4a) Ok, so you are saying that the PS2 sold for about the price of a stand-alone DVD player when it came out. So using your logic, should we expect the PS3 to cost $1000.

4b) You're right propriatery is not the right term for Blue-Ray. But Sony is the company pushing the standard, and they have the most to gain if it becomes the de-facto standard in HD. They are using the probability that 20million units will be sold to ram the technology down our throats.

Oh, and one thing I forgot to mention before. How about the rootkit fiasco. Sony is not the company I want controlling the technology I buy.


Who cares?
By AppaYipYip on 2/17/06, Rating: 0
RE: Who cares?
By MykC on 2/17/2006 11:42:32 AM , Rating: 3
While, I am most interested in the Nintendo Revloution due to the prospect of new gameplay experinces that won't be available on another platform. This in turn will encourage developers to stop making graphical upgrades to existing gameplay genres.
The 360s unified user interface (dashboard) and live features are great that Nintendo and Sony haven't shown alternatives to.
The PS3 however, is something that (with the current information available) I am not interested in at all. The PS3 looks to replace a lot of the components that are a part of my home theatres (which is good), but shows no innovations towards games except what additional power it may have over Nintendo and Microsoft.


RE: Who cares?
By ktlewis02 on 2/17/2006 11:50:03 AM , Rating: 2
I have to agree with you, XBox 360 and the PS3 are just more of the same with prettier graphics. Now granted beautiful graphics are important to the masses and the hardcore gamers as a whole, but I am getting tired of seeing the same sequals make their yearly appearance.. Something has to happen to the genre or we will all be too bored with it.


RE: Who cares?
By Scorpion on 2/17/2006 12:22:20 PM , Rating: 2
Why is it the console manufacturers fault that the developers keep rehashing the same gamplay styles and genres over and over... Granted a creative new interface is sometimes a plus and may help stimulate things, but ultimately the blame resides in the hands of the game developers. Quit buying the umpteenth EA sports sequel game and maybe they'll think about being more creative...

All of the news I've seen does not bode well for the PS3, and I have a sinking feeling that this next console will be Nintendo's last offering...


RE: Who cares?
By MykC on 2/17/2006 12:48:04 PM , Rating: 2
While it may not directly be the manufactuers fault that, "developers keep rehashing the same gamplay styles and genres over and over..." A console is a tool. A new tool will allow you to build different things. The PS3 is simply a bigger version of an existing tool (looking purely at what it is expected to bring to the table for games). This is why a manufactuer may need to burden some of the responsiblilty of why developers are developing rehashing.

Granted though some gameplay elements are being restricted by the lack of power which the PS3 will provide more of, but all next gen consoles will be provideing more power.


RE: Who cares?
By fhornmikey on 2/17/2006 1:04:12 PM , Rating: 2
However not all game consoles will be offering the horsepower required for real world physics (Revolution, I'm looking at you!). Don't get me wrong, I'm very excited about the Revolution and the things this new input method will provide for gaming, but really, Microsoft and Sony are competing for an entirely different market than Nintendo is.

Nintendo wants to bring videogaming to the masses, and I applaud them for their efforts, but it is very clear that they are not trying to compete with Sony and Microsoft.

Personally, I think the addition of real world physics will make a HUGE difference in games, so much so that most of us can't even really comprehend it. When in game cloth moves like real cloth, hair blows in the wind, dust particles are kicked up and drift based upon the flow of air in the current area, these are the things that will bring immersion in games to a new level.


RE: Who cares?
By MykC on 2/17/2006 2:26:06 PM , Rating: 2
We unfortanetly don't know exactly how powerful the PS3, Revolution and Xbox 360 will be in relation to each other. So, we don't know if the difference in power will make a noticable difference.


RE: Who cares?
By fhornmikey on 2/17/2006 3:29:07 PM , Rating: 2
Wrong... there is already more than enough information on all 3 systems to be able to determine a fairly accurate estimation of their capabilities.


RE: Who cares?
By Eris23007 on 2/17/2006 3:56:12 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Wrong... there is already more than enough information on all 3 systems to be able to determine a fairly accurate estimation of their capabilities.


I disagree. In the PS3 and XB360 both, full performance is highly dependent upon efficient coding and the ability to fully take advantage of multiple CPU cores. Game developers have not yet developed code that is optimized for this type of environment (i.e. highly multithreaded). If they are able to make this transition, you might see an increase in realism. However, to this point, I have not seen it in any of the 360 games I've played. Yeah, the gfx are better, and yeah, the physics are a bit better, but they aren't anywhere near the kind of realism you've stated you desire.

Again, I'm not stating it can't be done (I would state that about few things), but I don't believe that anyone has a "fairly accurate estimation" of their capabilities at this point because their full capabilities are so dependent upon new & different approaches to game development.


RE: Who cares?
By Eris23007 on 2/17/2006 3:58:36 PM , Rating: 2
And furthermore, due to the differences in the cores between XB360 and PS3, I think it is VERY difficult to compare/constrast their capabilities. Who's to say that a cell, with one PPC execution plus numerous SPEs, will perform better than or worse than the XB360 with three similar PPC execution cores, whether you're evaluating physics, graphics, sound, etc.?


Maybe..
By Griswold on 2/17/2006 1:29:59 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe they ran into some *cough* heat *cough* issues. Quite a few sites question how the case design of the PS3 can possibly handle the (expected) heat produced by this "living-room supercomputer".




RE: Maybe..
By fhornmikey on 2/17/2006 1:38:32 PM , Rating: 2
I can't remember where I read it, but I do remember reading that the PS3 will utilize a liquid cooling system. The PS3 is being designed as an "always on" device so a liquid cooling system would have greater lifespan than a traditional air cooling system.


RE: Maybe..
By brshoemak on 2/17/2006 1:58:40 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I can't remember where I read it, but I do remember reading that the PS3 will utilize a liquid cooling system. The PS3 is being designed as an "always on" device so a liquid cooling system would have greater lifespan than a traditional air cooling system.


liquid cooling = heatpipe (same as on a CPU or GPU)

Sony calls their PC's with heatpipes "liquid cooled", of course I believe MS did the same initially with the 360. Could very well be wrong.



Sony's Game to Lose
By jskirwin on 2/17/2006 11:41:18 AM , Rating: 3
I'm one of the PS2 faithful waiting for the PS3. All I can say is that if the PS3 loses market share to the Xbox 360, somebody at that firm better leap on his sword. Christmas '06 I can handle - but can the market?




RE: Sony's Game to Lose
By rocchioo on 2/17/2006 12:05:05 PM , Rating: 2
I wonder if PS3 is even real or did they have to come up with something because Microsoft surprised them with xbox 360. It's insane that Microsoft only waited 4 years to release a new console.

PS3 is reminding me of GT4 for PSP...vaporware. I know it will eventually be released and I will buy it. But, I doubt it wil be ready for a xmas launch in the US.


RE: Sony's Game to Lose
By Exodus220 on 2/17/06, Rating: 0
"You'll get it when it's done"
By brystmar on 2/17/2006 11:45:39 PM , Rating: 2
Hmmm...where have I heard this line before?

**cough(DNF)cough**




"Paying an extra $500 for a computer in this environment -- same piece of hardware -- paying $500 more to get a logo on it? I think that's a more challenging proposition for the average person than it used to be." -- Steve Ballmer

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