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Sony can't cut price on a device already losing money says analyst

Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft are fighting for the dollars of gamers around the globe. The sales pecking order in the gaming console market is well defined with Nintendo in first, Microsoft in second, and Sony bringing up third place.

Many in the industry say the reason that Sony is lagging behind Microsoft and Nintendo in sales is because of the $400 price tag. At that price, it is much more expensive than the Wii ($250) and Xbox 360 ($200 base). Game developers and others in the industry are putting pressure on Sony to drop the price of its console.

Sony CEO Kazuo Hirai said in an interview at E3 that Sony would not drop the price of the PS3 at this point. Hirai said, "We’re very happy with the price point that we have. We will move when we think it’s appropriate at some point in time."

The clear sales leader in game consoles is Nintendo who has moved over 50 million consoles. The Microsoft Xbox 360 has sold 30 million units so far while Sony has been able to move only 22.7 million PS3 consoles.

Analyst Yoshio Takahasi told Bloomberg, "Sony is probably determining the price of the PS3 by taking into account progress in cost reduction. The PS3 hardware business hasn’t turned profitable and if you lower the price without cutting expenses, you’ll lose more money.”

Sony's game division is losing money on each PS3 sold today and has posted a loss of $609 million for the year ended March 31, 2009. Sony is forecasting a second straight year of net loss blamed on the global economic recession. Sony maintains that it met its yearly goal for PS3 shipments and expects to ship 13 million PS3s in the 12 months ending March 2010.

In the same period, Nintendo is forecasting it will sell 26 million Wii consoles.



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Memo to Industry "analysts"
By tallcool1 on 6/4/2009 12:35:02 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Many in the industry say the reason that Sony is lagging behind Microsoft and Nintendo in sales is because of the $400 price tag. At that price, it is much more expensive than the Wii ($250) and Xbox 360 ($200 base). Game developers and others in the industry are putting pressure on Sony to drop the price of its console.
Anybody with just basic electronic technology knowledge would understand that YOU CANNOT "DIRECTLY" PRICE COMPETE THESE UNITS! Nobody in their right mind would directly compare a Wii to a PS3 or 360 for that matter.

Each of these units offer different levels of technology to the consumer, therefore come in at different price points. When you got Sony offering a user replacable built in hard drive, blu-ray player, media center capabilities, etc. Its going to cost more than a Wii (which doesn't directly compare), end of discussion.




RE: Memo to Industry "analysts"
By DM0407 on 6/4/2009 1:14:00 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
YOU CANNOT "DIRECTLY" PRICE COMPETE THESE UNITS!


But Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft are all businesses, and the Wii is the highest profit. A great company does not develop the perfect product, they develop the product that the consumer will buy and still make them money. Sony = FAIL.


RE: Memo to Industry "analysts"
By BansheeX on 6/4/2009 2:36:28 PM , Rating: 5
And yet, if you aren't employed by or running that company, why would you care about profit margins?

Sony is weird in that they cater to consumers who want long term value. Their consoles have the longest life cycles. They do this by delivering the most cutting edge hardware and then aggressively reducing its cost throughout the product's life cycle, negating early losses with future profits.

On one hand, I want them to do well with the average consumer. On the other, I don't want them to stoop to the annoyingly successful 360 model of selling an unreliable barebones unit with a low shelf price and then charging the crap out of people in the long run with netplay fees and overpriced upgrades. And as much as blu-ray increased the price, I hate how low-density discs would have made the unit more noisy and given us a slew of multi-disc games.


RE: Memo to Industry "analysts"
By supdc on 6/4/2009 9:05:27 PM , Rating: 4
I agree. They say the PS3 costs more, but when I bought my xbox360, I had to buy a wireless adapter, rechargeable battery packs, and this was for the premium model so I already had the hdd. Total costs exceeded what I spent on my ps3 substantially. on top of that the pos managed to red ring on me a month after I got it. needless to say after it was replaced I sold it. My cost of ownership on the xbox was far more then my cost of ownership on my PS3. Stupid $200 dollar price just tricks uneducated moms and dads into buying the system piece by piece... (hdd,wirelessadapter,hddvdd at one point) I'll stick to my ps3 and wii.


RE: Memo to Industry "analysts"
By FITCamaro on 6/5/2009 8:53:39 AM , Rating: 2
It's about initial cost of entry though. Parents look at the base price, not the addons, when buying one or the other. Yes you have to buy wireless separate on the 360. But its cheaper out the door initially so it sells. My PS3 has largely become a Blu-ray player though.


RE: Memo to Industry "analysts"
By Chaser on 6/5/2009 9:51:38 AM , Rating: 3
Another reason why 360 "sales numbers" have less of an importance against PS3 numbers.


RE: Memo to Industry "analysts"
By MarcLeFou on 6/5/2009 10:52:16 AM , Rating: 4
It's been said multiple times but I like the 360's business model of a barebone model and a fully loaded one.

The arcade with their 30$ refurb HDD option is a great buy for somebody who wants only to play games.

The PS3 is a great option for somebody who wants a fully loaded model.

But I do like the choice. If the 360 Elite had a blu-ray player built in, I would actually consider it. But the arcade + refurb hdd is more than sufficient given the price and the options.

It really is like the american/japanese car manufacturers business model when you think about it :
- the 360 is like GM where you can basically customize your model (with addons) to make it exactly your own (and, just like GM, people have the perception they're badly designed to boot!)
- the PS3 is like an Acura where the big model comes with all the big options already (and your only upgrade option might be to add the navi pack to it)


RE: Memo to Industry "analysts"
By BansheeX on 6/8/2009 3:35:32 PM , Rating: 2
The thing you seem to be forgetting, though, is that developers will only take advantage of the lowest end model. If the PS3 offered a DVD-only model, you would never see any developer use blu-ray because a DVD's market is all units while a blu-rays would only be some units. Same dynamic with the hard drive or any other piece of hardware.


RE: Memo to Industry "analysts"
By Belard on 6/5/2009 12:57:41 AM , Rating: 5
No, SONY was late, MS was early. So about 8million Xbox systems have been refurbished or destroyed.

Sony hit 23million units faster than the Xbox360 in the same time period. Sony is a year behind.

And anyone with intelligence should be able to compare price <> feature list. To a degree, going by your logic, SONY WON since they sold over 138 million units... almost 3 times the Wii.

But wait... the PS2 is last generation. And the Wii is CHEAP because its really a repackaged, slightly updated and cheaper-to-manufacture GameCube. Nintendo didn't spend anything to develop the CPU/GPU hardware. Just like Sony is able to make the Playstations smaller and cheaper as time goes on.

But the Wii is still nothing more than an Advanced GC. Looking at its tech specs, The CPU is half the size and almost double the Mhz, the GPU is a more powerful ATI chip but nothing amazing - but unlike the OTHER consoles, the Wii is does not have HD output. The internal memory has been doubled. Networking has been added. Thats about it.

Its a pure conole unit (a good one). It doesn't play DVDs. Its graphics are not much better than the GC. By using LOW-TECH, it doesn't generate heat like the other consoles. The drive unit is most likely the same from GC, if not made smaller at least.

But the PS3 and 360 are HD, positioned as media hubs (less so of the 360).

So to expect the PS3 to cost the same as the $250 or $200 360 (In which the Wii is making a profit and costs more) is silly. Most people buy the $300 360 with the 60GB HD.

The extra $100 gets the person these things:
1 - 20GB more space + easy for user to replace
2 - Blu-Ray HiDef player. (Xbox = nothing)
3 - Wireless networking ($80~100 addon for 360)
4 - Free networking (but 360 does make this easier with $)
5 - Slot-load drive that is very quiet.

Keyboard/mouse options are available for the PS3. And of course no chance of a RROD on a PS3.

I don't own either of these 3 consoles.

The PS3 helped SONY win the HiDef media war, so the $600million loss isn't as big as a deal. If the 360 had been 4~6 months later, the market would have been flipped. Remember, the original 360 was $400 and they do make a $400 model (used to be $480).

IF / when I am get a modern console, it'll be the PS3.


RE: Memo to Industry "analysts"
By Alexstarfire on 6/5/09, Rating: -1
RE: Memo to Industry "analysts"
By Alexstarfire on 6/5/09, Rating: 0
RE: Memo to Industry "analysts"
By Belard on 6/6/2009 5:19:03 AM , Rating: 2
Was that directed to me?

My point is, there are different aspects and market values, not simply numbers and price.

The price issue (Which I forgot to add) that is always silly is making the PS3 price the same as a $200 xbox or $250 GCII.. er Wii.

That's like expecting Ford to take their $28K Mustang V8 and reducing its price to the level of a Chevy Cobalt ($16K MSRP) to increase sales.

MS has done the most in reducing their prices on the 360.

On the other factor, the market for Wii isn't the same a the 360/PS3. If money is all that matter, there would be NO sales for the $300~500 modern consoles, everyone would be buying Wiis. But how many people complain about the 360-HD should be a $250 unit?

Wii = Win for General & kiddie players.
360 = Win for Gamers & multiplayers, people who might have played the games on a Windows PC to a degree.
PS3 = Win for a Media center. Plays HD movies and can DL content while play games.

PC = Lose to market share to the 360/PS3.

Then again, how will video-streamed games fair? I see latency issues, especially for multi-player. Bandwidth over the Internet is the worst problem.


RE: Memo to Industry "analysts"
By DFranch on 6/5/09, Rating: 0
RE: Memo to Industry "analysts"
By bill3 on 6/5/09, Rating: 0
RE: Memo to Industry "analysts"
By Belard on 6/6/2009 5:49:42 AM , Rating: 2
Where do you get your "billion" figures? Its a division and they make money off of software and accessories.

The Xbox(original) never left the RED. You have no figures to prove that MS has made a profit... which MS hasn't disclosed. But with millions of DEAD 360 consoles, MS has lost a lot of money... not just in refurb/service & replacement... but in lawsuits, R&D, service and shipping.

ie: Samsung replaced my $500 19" CRT many years ago (under warranty) This is a mid-high end unit, about 50lbs. They used UPS-2day to ship me a refurb (grrr.. my PC hardware looks new - even years old). The box is used to send back the bad monitor and has a return label. At best, $30 each way. UPS Calculator says $70+, but I assume big Corp. have contract discounts.
So $60 to transport monitor that is valued at $200 (LCDs are gaining traction). Worse, the replacement is damaged physically and the screen too. They send me a Newer model that is actually cheaper quality... it has picture flaw. They send me Another one that is SO BAD, I drove back to the UPS store and exchanged the monitor for the previous one. I called Samsung, they were busy and DID call me back the next day. Their service is good, products are good - but their RMA/tech dept sucked back then. They shipped me, Next DAY their top-end 19" CRT that was in perfect condition... lived for another 4 years before I gave it away to a teenager. Total shipping: (4 Monitors = 8 times! About $300!) I've done worse with Dell at a job... Replacing $800 CRTs with junky $200 LCDs (low quality picture).

Point? MS spent millions on just shipping the units, especially those poor customers who had 2-3 RRODs! 360s are not 50lbs... but 8~9lbs, not including the powerbrick.
(BTW: PS3s have no powerbricks and yet don't have the heat issues) But for ground-shipping, about $20 round trip. Thats about $160+ million in shipping alone, lost... not including a 2nd or 3rd failure. Theres also loses in paying techs to tear apart and refurbish most of these units. The R&D spent to troubleshoot the design flaws.

Lets say MS Spent $50 per return unit in labor costs. That'll be $400 million.

These are speculative, nothing more. Educated guess.

Unlike most of us... Microsoft can afford it.


RE: Memo to Industry "analysts"
By DFranch on 6/5/2009 1:19:04 PM , Rating: 2
Hey, what happened to the PS3's ability to play PS2 games. At least the 360 still plays xbox games. SONY took that capability away to save money. Nobody seems to remember them taking away that feature.


RE: Memo to Industry "analysts"
By Hiawa23 on 6/4/2009 2:35:52 PM , Rating: 2
Each of these units offer different levels of technology to the consumer, therefore come in at different price points. When you got Sony offering a user replacable built in hard drive, blu-ray player, media center capabilities, etc. Its going to cost more than a Wii (which doesn't directly compare), end of discussion.

I get what you are saying. I own all three consoles, & bought the $499 PS3 at launch but that's not the point. Average Joe who looking to buy a console goes to Best Buy or whatever store & sees $200, $250, $400, $500, don't care about HD, movies, just want a console to play games, gas prices going up, tough economy, I would say he is more likely to get one of the low end prices, so yeah you are right but Sony can't have this attitude unless they want to continue to lose money have ower installed based, lose more exclusives to the 360, & some cases lose franchises, period. Again, I agree but Sony better find someway to get a lower PS3 out cause we all know the Wii eventually will go down & so will the 360. What will Sony do then?


RE: Memo to Industry "analysts"
By BigPeen on 6/5/2009 1:21:06 AM , Rating: 2
the Blu-ray hardware isn't worth as much as it used to be. Commercial 405nm lasers (which are whats in the ps3) sell for $2 now, not the $200 they did 3 or so years ago.


You shouldn't trust their spokespeople
By Bateluer on 6/4/2009 11:04:27 AM , Rating: 3
If they said they were going to cut the price on the PS3 in 6 months, nobody would buy PS3s for 6 months.




By fishbits on 6/4/2009 11:28:17 AM , Rating: 2
That's what I'm hoping. Have a 360 and Wii already, love them. Tried a friend's PS3 recently and enjoyed it too. But since it's more than $300, I'll pass. Which means I won't be buying Infamous or Wipeout or any other PS3 games. Will stick with DVDs for the time being too, since a reasonably-priced PS3 will likely be my Blu-ray player eventually.

Anyway, it's up to Sony. I've got plenty of other gaming options.


RE: You shouldn't trust their spokespeople
By Dribble on 6/4/2009 11:38:06 AM , Rating: 2
Actually I would have bought a PS3 by now if they had cut the price, I know they will have to cut the price at some point, and they have a slimline version coming out so I 100% refuse to buy the current console at the current price.

In the mean time the 360 is starting to look more and more appealing. It's cheaper, looks like it's going to be better supported in the future (games devs talking about dropping PS3), and microsoft seem to be investing more in it - bringing out really interesting innovations such as NATAL.

Equally number of things I expected the PS3 to excel at (e.g. movies on demand) actually seem to be better on the xbox. All the PS3 has going for it now is blue ray support and the odd exclusive game, and that might not be enough.


RE: You shouldn't trust their spokespeople
By smackababy on 6/4/2009 11:58:10 AM , Rating: 2
IIRC Valve has stated they will no longer port anything to the PS3. They are Xbox 360 only now.

If the PS3 dropped in price, I would have purchased one already. I have a feeling they are going to do a price drop on the slim version. It is, most likely, cheaper to make so a price drop would be easier for the Sony board to accept.


RE: You shouldn't trust their spokespeople
By nwrigley on 6/4/2009 1:06:58 PM , Rating: 3
Of course all Valve games are going to be on the PC as well and the best experience will always be on PC (with Valve games).


RE: You shouldn't trust their spokespeople
By quiksilvr on 6/4/2009 2:03:25 PM , Rating: 3
That was one of the main issues I had with the 360. Even if the games are exclusive, they either release simultaneously on the PC or release on the PC less than a year later. I have other issues with the 360 that keep me away from it as well (pay to play online, serious hardware issues in the past that still keep me cautious from purchasing it), but the fact that many of its exclusives are on the PC is the main reason why I won't get one.


RE: You shouldn't trust their spokespeople
By smackababy on 6/4/2009 2:45:40 PM , Rating: 2
I thought that as well, but I was a fan of Xbox Live on the original for quite some time and got the 360 when it launched. I've never had a RRoD that wasn't self induced (which is probably what a lot of people did). Like, a few games I wait for the PC version, but some I enjoy more on the console. Left 4 Dead and TF2 are two prime examples.


By quiksilvr on 6/6/2009 2:17:38 AM , Rating: 2
I didn't really like Left 4 Dead, but that was mainly because most people online are morons and the Tank is just so overpowering that its an instant game ender. Also it didn't really feel like a $60 game. More like a week rental. TF2 is awesome though.

And I do like Xbox Live (my roommate got a 360 in summer '08 and it got the RRoD, another reason why I won't get it) but the fact that its $50 a year is a turn off. I mean, its $100 bucks cheaper than the PS3...for two years. And will be more expensive later on.


RE: You shouldn't trust their spokespeople
By Zoomer on 6/4/2009 6:21:35 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed. I don't see the point of the PS3 when I can just play the games on a PC.

I bought my PS2 for FFX; sure I enjoyed other games like DMC, Onimusha, Xenosaga, and (perhaps) MGS.

Playing FPSes on the dualshock is weird.


By FITCamaro on 6/5/2009 8:50:39 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah DS3 or Sixaxis controller really isn't ideal for FPSs. The 360s controller is far better designed for it. Doesn't necessarily mean its better than a PC but honestly I'm enjoying console gaming far more than PC gaming now.


RE: You shouldn't trust their spokespeople
By MonkeyPaw on 6/4/2009 3:16:01 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Actually I would have bought a PS3 by now if they had cut the price, I know they will have to cut the price at some point...


Gamestop had a deal last month where they'd give you $100 off a new PS3 with the trade of a working PS2 and 3 games. I was very seriously considering the deal, but then I thought that it probably meant a PS3 price cut was on its way. I figured we'd hear about it at E3, but with PS3-slim supposedly coming, I bet the price drop won't happen until new hardware starts shipping.


By smackababy on 6/4/2009 4:19:30 PM , Rating: 2
It seems probable that a slim PS3 will come with a price cut. It makes perfect sense for them to deny it though. Why squash sales?


By Dribble on 6/5/2009 5:55:09 AM , Rating: 1
I live in the uk. Here from Amazon you can either get...

A PS3: £280 for 80GB one + hdmi cable and a game for an extra £10 = £290

A 360: £160 for 60GB one + hdmi cable, one of the wireless packs which have a second controller and two games for an extra £10= £170

Considering you get the extra controller the 360's almost half the price for what, other then the blu ray drive, is pretty identical hardware.


RE: You shouldn't trust their spokespeople
By RaistlinZ on 6/4/2009 5:42:05 PM , Rating: 1
Sony has this all backwards. They claim that they'll lose money by dropping the price. The reality is they'll make way more money. If you price the system at say, $299.00 then they'll more than make up for it throug the sale of: additional controllers, memory cards, wireless jacks, games, etc. But by keeping the price at $400 they're not getting those units sold and thus missing out an all of that other potential income from games and attachments.


By FITCamaro on 6/5/2009 8:52:08 AM , Rating: 2
The PS3 doesn't even have ports for a memory card anymore.


Memo to Sony
By chmilz on 6/4/2009 11:10:11 AM , Rating: 2
Let me take a quick inventory of some Sony divisions:

Game hardware
Game studio
Blu-Ray
Televisins
Film company

I don't know if the lights are dim at Sony, but all these divisions are interconnected, and the PS3 is a major driver of sales of the other 4 divisions... take the freaking loss on PS3's, and sell more HDTV's, Blu-Ray home videos, and Sony branded video games.

Sony is the only company that can have its 50" LCD HDTVs and movies from its own film studio rated as attachments to its game console. They just haven't figured that out yet.




RE: Memo to Sony
By smackababy on 6/4/2009 11:14:14 AM , Rating: 3
They don't even need a price cut. Offer a 10% discount coupon on a 40" or higher TV when you purchase a PS3. I would bet that sells consoles. Doesn't even need to be that big either. Maybe 10% off 5 Sony games. Heck, even 10% off 5 Blu-Ray movies of your choice. People are suckers for spending $5000 but saving $500.


RE: Memo to Sony
By Alexstarfire on 6/4/2009 6:22:59 PM , Rating: 3
Hope you don't take offense to this, but people are stupid if you haven't noticed.


RE: Memo to Sony
By smackababy on 6/5/2009 11:54:22 AM , Rating: 2
That was my point. People are stupid enough to fall for the "spend a lot, save a little" deals.


RE: Memo to Sony
By tastyratz on 6/4/2009 11:26:29 AM , Rating: 3
Memo to memo guy:
Every once in awhile they DO have deals at certain retailers where you get a tv for discount with a bluray player/ps3 or vise versa.
I have seen it at the local best buy several times.
They also have sold the ps3 with movies as a package for some time. Does anyone think talledaga nights on bluray REALLY actually SOLD that many copies all on its own?

They need to bundle some ps3 store games and movie downloads/rentals with the ps3 but not as an alternative bundle. We really don't need any new sku's on the shelves.


RE: Memo to Sony
By killerroach on 6/4/2009 11:32:40 AM , Rating: 3
Yeah, I got my PS3 bundled with Spider-Man 3 on Blu-Ray. I now have a sizable Blu-Ray collection (~70 titles), but I don't think I've ever been drunk enough to subject myself to watching that movie again, even if it is in 1080p.


RE: Memo to Sony
By Netscorer on 6/4/2009 4:24:45 PM , Rating: 2
Wow,

so you are saying that Sony electronics department (and it is more then just TVs) and film studios are secondary to PS3? Think how many people own TV, camera, mobile phone, go to movies, buy DVDs etc. vs how many people even know what the heck PS3 is. Then come back here and say that these departments are depended on PS3 sales.

For some companies (Hello, Nintendo) the games business is all they do and they will live and die (Sayonara, Atari) depending on the success of their platforms. For others (Microsoft, Sony) - this is just an important, but hardly vital group within huge corporate conglomerate and if tomorrow Sony have to bail out of games business altogether, they will continue and still be a successful company.


Huh
By FranksAndBeans on 6/4/2009 11:22:53 AM , Rating: 2
To be honest I'm surprised the PS3 and 360 numbers are that close. The gaming market and general impressions don't seem to match that.

This will come off as a dig, but the reality is that a lot of 360 owners have had to buy 2 or more consoles. I'm not sure what the impact of that is, but I would think it would put the actual installed base a lot closer than the total sales imply. From everything you read you would think that the 360 is a lot further ahead in installed base.

Then again, I'm also surprised the Wii is still moving that much hardware. Most of the Wii owners I know are tired of the lackluster software and the gimmickiness of it has worn thin long ago.

I guess I'm totally out of touch, but I do consider myself a gamer...




RE: Huh
By Luticus on 6/4/09, Rating: 0
RE: Huh
By Hiawa23 on 6/4/2009 11:51:28 AM , Rating: 1
I don't think it matters how many 360s many have bought much like it did not matter how many PS2s gamers had to rebuy. Consoles moved is the key, & how they get to that I don't think matters. What next, you don't count the DSi or DS Lite with the DS numbers, or count the PSP 1001 numbers with the PSP 3000?

Sony needs to lower the price to some sort of price that will get the masses out to buy the console. Devs have been putting pressure on them to do this & it's not their fault Sony's manufacturing costs are so high, & they must keep the price up to not to lose as much per console sold. This is another reason the games that used to be exclusive are now also on the 360, & the attach rate of the 360 is sick. There is noway the 360 should continue doing as well given the RROD fiasco, & other failures. The PS3 to me should have passed the 360 by now, but looks like Sony also made some mistepps, the biggest being the price.

Many are saying Sony needs to bundle the PS3 with HDTV sales, but I don't think the masses are buying PS3s for Blu ray movies, especially since Blu ray players now are less than a PS3. If the PS3 is going to surge ahead it will be because of it's pricing & games, not movies. I am not sure how Sony gets to that at this point without releasing a slimmer PS3 with features removed.


RE: Huh
By omnicronx on 6/4/2009 11:55:41 AM , Rating: 4
quote:
This will come off as a dig, but the reality is that a lot of 360 owners have had to buy 2 or more consoles. I'm not sure what the impact of that is, but I would think it would put the actual installed base a lot closer than the total sales imply.
I'm not too sure this is correct, they had/still have a 3 year warranty afterall, most people with broken 360's merely sent them back. While I am sure there are some that went out and bought a new one, I really doubt it was a significant number.(at least not enough to make the numbers between the PS3 and 360 even)


RE: Huh
By wempa on 6/4/2009 2:16:05 PM , Rating: 3
I can think of at least 2 situations where people might have bought new consoles. The first is for people who did various mods to their console. Something as simple as installing a new cooling system voids the warranty. Secondly, MS took a long time and two separate extensions to finally get the warranty to 3 years. First, it was 90 days. Then, it was 1 year. There were quite a lot of people who had their consoles break when the warranty was shorter and I'm quite sure a number of them bought new consoles instead of paying MS $150 to repair the unit. I personally know people in each of these situations. It might not be a huge percentage, but it definitely adds to the numbers.


RE: Huh
By FITCamaro on 6/5/2009 8:55:34 AM , Rating: 2
I'm on my 2nd 360 but I didn't have to buy it. Took it back to Best Buy and got a new one.


RE: Huh
By BansheeX on 6/4/2009 2:39:22 PM , Rating: 2
Their rate of sales per year is almost identical if you look at it that way. The 360's additional sales can be attributed to its additional year on the market.


Worldwide sales figures
By theflux on 6/4/2009 1:27:44 PM , Rating: 2
The article fails to mention that while Microsoft is at 30 million and Sony is at 22, the PS3 launched a year later in the US/Japan and a year and a half later. Launches aligned, Sony is selling the PS3 at a faster rate than the 360.

Worldwide, Microsoft is only outselling the PS3 by 10-20 thousand units per week, which is less than 10%. It's no wonder Sony isn't that worried.




RE: Worldwide sales figures
By theapparition on 6/4/2009 3:52:52 PM , Rating: 2
While correct, Sony must be concerned that it is not outpacing the 360, not to mention the much inferior (hardware wise) Wii.

I have no doubt that Sony was caught off guard and considers the PS3 to be a disappointment internally.


RE: Worldwide sales figures
By Belard on 6/5/2009 1:13:49 AM , Rating: 2
Actually PS3 is at 23 million units.

But also keep in mind that when the 360 was at this level, their failure rate was 33%. Lets see... mm hmmmm... 1/3 of 24 million is.... oh yeah, 8 million.

People are rebuying newer units... like their 3rd or 4th while they sell their old ones to gamestop or ebay or garbage because of RROD or drive failure.

In 5 years time for the Xbox1, 24million sold before the console was killed off.. and was considered a bit of a failure. The PS3 will not die off, it has more life than the 360 (not by much) and 12 months from now, will hit 30 million. In 2012 when the PS4 comes out, there maybe 50 million PS3s.


RE: Worldwide sales figures
By bill3 on 6/5/2009 10:32:21 AM , Rating: 2
No, actually PS3 is at 22.7 million units. This article surprisingly got the figure exactly correct. Xbox 360 is at 30.2 million.


RE: Worldwide sales figures
By bill3 on 6/5/2009 10:42:54 AM , Rating: 2
Theres no known failure rate on 360, just numbers people pull out of their ass like "33%".

Myself, after around a year IIRC my first unit did RROD, had to send it back, but the unit I got back like 2 years ago now has been rock solid reliable, and it doesnt even have ANY of the new reliability enhancements. One of the first things MS did was put an extra heatsink on the GPU. Theres a way to look through the vents with a flashlight and see if you have that new heatsink. Mine doesnt. And like I said, that was one of the earliest things they did to try to fix RROD. The new ones probably have tons of enhancements beyond that.

Also, MS has a 3 year warranty and most people send the 360 in to get fixed for free (like I did). I'm sure some people buy new units, but few.

BTW, for your lifetime figures, by my estimates 360 will hit at least 60-70 million sold. Its already at 30 and shipping 10+ per year currently. Considering Halo Reach was just announced for fall 2010, that means the EARLIEST youd see a new xbox would be fall 11. So 10m 09, 10m 010, 10m 011=60m 360's. Plus theyll probably sell another 10 million over a few years after the new Xbox comes out. And they might even do better because there are more price cuts coming eventually.


RE: Worldwide sales figures
By Belard on 6/6/2009 5:58:39 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Also, MS has a 3 year warranty and most people send the 360 in to get fixed for free (like I did). I'm sure some people buy new units, but few.


If only a few people replaced their units when a revised model comes out (Each one cooler than the previous) - then why do game / tech / review sites wet their panties and go crazy at every revision?! All they talk about it is "the next revision should be more reliable", etc.

They aren't preaching to possible NEW buyers. Thats info is most important to current owners.


It is what it is
By Chaser on 6/4/2009 5:02:57 PM , Rating: 3
The PS3 is what it is. It was designed to add to and augment a home theatre system as a Blue Ray Player, media hub and killer game unit that has a respectable amount of great games, including many outstanding exclusives and more to come. As the electronic departments at Walmarts etc continue to grow and HDTV is becoming more of a household word the PS3 is a very attractive option.

Point is not everyone is looking at the PS3 from the standpoint of a "second" console in addition to someone's $199.00 cabled stocking stuffer with a DVD player or Wii they got over Christmas. The PS3 stands on it's own and just because some people are having a temper tantrum because their 360 or Wii is cheaper doesn't mean the PS3 has to cut it's prices. It's doing fine and it's a great value.




RE: It is what it is
By Nfarce on 6/4/2009 5:17:35 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Point is not everyone is looking at the PS3 from the standpoint of a "second" console in addition to someone's $199.00 cabled stocking stuffer with a DVD player or Wii they got over Christmas.


Thank you. on top of being a gaming/BD player, it's the centerpiece of my media entertainment system, from showing home movies to pictures to web surfing from the couch.


RE: It is what it is
By Alexstarfire on 6/4/2009 6:42:24 PM , Rating: 2
My computer was doing that LONG before the PS3 came around.


RE: It is what it is
By Nfarce on 6/4/2009 7:14:56 PM , Rating: 2
So was mine, bro. I just don't like having a PC in my home theater setup. It doesn't fit very well in the console cabinet - not to mention I have other rooms for PCs. And I wasn't going to spend $500+ building a HTPC, because it's not very portable to take to friend's homes at parties and relative's homes for sharing games, videos, and the like as I mentioned above.


RE: It is what it is
By Alexstarfire on 6/5/2009 5:20:53 AM , Rating: 1
Are you making a tower for an HTPC or something? They've had shuttle cases and miniATXs, and actually microATX should work as well, for a while now. You could literally make an HTPC at least as small as the PS3 or 360.


Just drop the price already
By pequin06 on 6/4/2009 10:53:46 AM , Rating: 2
I'm a proud PS3 owner but it wasn't till I was offered a discounted Blu Ray player, which the PS3 qualified as, that I then picked one up.
But who am I to tell Sony what to do? It's their company. Sell the PS3 at a higher price is people are willing to pay for it.
I know I would.




RE: Just drop the price already
By Hiawa23 on 6/4/2009 11:22:56 AM , Rating: 2
I have had my PS3 since launch so I could care less if Sony reduces the price or not, but Sony has made it quite clear many times that they are about profitability, & I don't believe they can afford to lower the price especially in this economic climate. This is the sword they have made for themselves & they must rest on it. I am surprised cause before E3 there was talk of a cheaper slimmer PS3 in the works that was supposed to be shown. Surprised there was no mention, but with the PSP GO weighing in @ $250, which is almost hilarious to me, I don't expect a cheaper PS3 anytime soon.


RE: Just drop the price already
By allometry on 6/4/2009 11:26:51 AM , Rating: 2
My thoughts exactly.

The PS3 is a good platform, but it seems like its never been able to gain significant traction with actual titles.

My idea for Sony is this: attract new developers by opening up your development platform similar to Microsoft and XNA. Don't give away the farm, but at least let people see what that monster black box can actually do!

Perhaps you'll attract new developers to the Cell platform, breed new ideas, sell more developer licenses and hey, maybe attract more gamers?

Just my $0.02...


RE: Just drop the price already
By Luticus on 6/4/2009 11:28:43 AM , Rating: 2
Even if they were going to drop the price I doubt they'd announce it until they were actually doing it. One good way to kill your sales today is to tell people what your selling will be cheaper tomorrow.


Die Shrink
By Brazos on 6/4/2009 11:34:33 AM , Rating: 2
Over a year ago IBM announced the die shrink from 65nm to 45 nm for the Cell BE and yet Sony has yet to do anything with it. Why not? It would lower their hardware cost which they could pass along to the end user.




RE: Die Shrink
By killerroach on 6/4/2009 11:33:32 AM , Rating: 2
If the rumors of a slim PS3 are correct, I would almost certainly assume that it features both Cell and RSX being manufactured on a 45nm process.


RE: Die Shrink
By hduser on 6/4/2009 1:45:51 PM , Rating: 2
Over a year ago IBM announced the die shrink from 65nm to 45 nm for the Cell BE and yet Sony has yet to do anything with it. Why not? It would lower their hardware cost which they could pass along to the end user.

There's a big difference from "announced" to full production. Even then, it's not automatic that there's a savings right away because it has to do with chip yields on the wafer which takes time. There's also the cost to upgrade the fabrication line to handle 45nm. And how much tangible savings would you really expect per Cell chip? Probably not enough to cover the $40 loss per PS3.

Hopefully the rumoured PS3 slim would incorporate a 45nm Cell and a smaller RSX processor and other cost savings(smaller heat sink, cheaper bluray drive, smaller power supply, etc).


PS3 is a way better deal than 360!
By schmizz on 6/5/2009 2:21:44 AM , Rating: 2
The PS3 is much cheaper than the Xbox 360! Check out my math!

My Launch 360 was $399.99. R.I.P. (Red Ring of Death)
My 360 Elite was $479.99. R.I.P. (Disc Drive Failure)
My 360 Arcade was $199.99 (Just a baby, @ 2 months old.)

Total price for my Xbox 360 Console = $1,079.97 + 6% Sales Tax=$1,144.77

My Launch PS3 was $599.99 (no sales tax on the internet) and it's still working!

Now you do the Math!

Now don't get me wrong, I love the 360 or I wouldn't keep replacing it, but when I look at the money it has cost me it makes me sick. When I think about it I don't know how Microsoft has gotten away with one of the biggest swindles in technology history, but than I realize that is Microsoft's track record. We live under a corrupt government controlled by corrupt corporations!




By dxf2891 on 6/5/2009 9:37:25 AM , Rating: 2
Dude didn't you know you could send those Xbox 360s back to Microsoft for repair/replacement. If you still have them, do a websearch for "Red Ring of Death repair process" due to the embarrassment of the above they are pretty much repairing any and all issues or free. Get them repaired and throw them on ebay.


By Gingivitis on 6/8/2009 11:32:39 AM , Rating: 1
FAIL!!!!!!!!!
To bad for you because my launch 360 only costed me the 599.99$ and mines still kicking. I smell a sony fan boy just spouting numbers and false propaganda because its done on EVERY forum and debate on ps3 / 360. and if you really did buy all 3 xboxes then your an idiot for not just getting them fixed. Take your ps3 fanboy shit and gtfo


Sweeten the deal somehow then
By psychobriggsy on 6/4/2009 11:00:39 AM , Rating: 2
Well throw in some free games and BluRays then to sweeten the deal! Even if it's only a bundle of PS Store games... and there must be a load of unsold early BluRay movies that could be thrown in as well.

quote:
The Microsoft Xbox 360 has sold 30 million units so far while Sony has been able to move only 22.7 million PS3 consoles.


In a year less - the sales rate of the PS3 isn't a problem, but a $100 price cut would boost sales in the US where it isn't faring so well.




By Nfarce on 6/4/2009 5:13:58 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Well throw in some free games and BluRays then to sweeten the deal! Even if it's only a bundle of PS Store games... and there must be a load of unsold early BluRay movies that could be thrown in as well. Well throw in some free games and BluRays then to sweeten the deal! Even if it's only a bundle of PS Store games... and there must be a load of unsold early BluRay movies that could be thrown in as well.


Been there, and done that. I got a 60GB version in the summer of 2007 when the priced dropped from $599 to $499. Sony threw in 5 BD movies back by mail (I let them pick the titles by not checking anything and they gave me three cool ones not even on their lame original list to choose from!). Also, through Amazon, where I purchased it, I got another free BD movie and Sony BD remote (though that was an Amazon, not a Sony, promo). All in all, that was about $175 worth of "free" goodies. Point being, there are deals out there not necessarily though Sony to move these things. Dell not long ago had a coupon code deal on an 80GB version with a free game (can't remember what it was) for about $350 US).


299 PS3 on the way
By bill3 on 6/5/2009 11:09:15 AM , Rating: 2
Since I'm a video game nut, I can pretty much tell you guys whats going to happen with PS3 pricing..

First, a "PS3 slim" has been spotted, pictured, and all but confirmed. It's a lot smaller than the current PS3, and features a dull matt finish rather than the current glossy one, which will serve to remind it's a "cheap" PS3 rather than the high dollar glossy version. Even the branding on the box is slightly different and similar to the new PSP GO box (another clue it's real).

Second, Sony's projections are to ship 13 million PS3's in the 2010 fiscal year (April09-March 010). Thats a 30% increase on the 10 million they shipped FY09. It doesnt take a genius to figure out the only way theyre going to hit that projection is with a price cut, and probably a big one. Especially since some (two months already) of the FY10 is already gone, and so they will need to sell even more in the remainder to hit the 30% increase.

Theres also an Ars Technica article, and Ars Technica rumors source is 100% reliable in the past, that state the new PS3 slim will hit shelves in August or September. And I'm betting it will be at 299. So there you go, slim PS3 =299 in fall 09 more than likely..




RE: 299 PS3 on the way
By bill3 on 6/5/2009 11:11:50 AM , Rating: 2
Oh, and the 299 slim PS3 has a 120GB hard drive, and the "old" PS3's will be sold away and not replenished to make room for the new one.


Number of Units Sold
By DarthKaos on 6/5/2009 10:32:51 AM , Rating: 2
I found it interesting that the article stressed that "Sony has been able to move 'only' 22.7 million PS3 consoles". So the Xbox 360 has been out a year longer and was always cheaper and they have ONLY managed to sell 30 million units. I would think the gap would be different if the Xbox 360 was so much better or had better games. A gap of less then 8 million units could be made up in six months. Why price drop during a weak time of sales. Spring is not the time.

If Microsoft was had sold maybe 40 or 50 million units Sony would have to do a price drop now but as it stands they can wait. I for see a holiday price drop to close the gap on the Xbox 360. Then another drop next spring to take the lead.

All this is really irrelevant though. The real battle takes place when/if Microsoft tries to come out with a new system earlier than Sony. What could they put out that would top the PS3 in features, power, or scalability? Not much and the price point would be higher then the PS3 at that point too. I see some ways around this and maybe Microsoft does too but for now this battle is not important. A price drop will come and once again people will realize that exclusives, features, and free online is what people want. Sony knows they have to deliver on those fronts and they will.




RE: Number of Units Sold
By bill3 on 6/5/2009 10:50:30 AM , Rating: 1
Theres no way Sony can make up 8 million (actually 7.5 million) in six months! Considering they are LOSING ground every quarter right now.

For example, in the last quarter, Jan-Feb-March 09, Sony shipped 1.43m PS3's worldwide, and MS shipped 1.7m 360's. So Sony lost 270k of ground in the last three months. The quarter before that, the holiday. it was 6m for 360 and 4.5 for PS3, so they lost 1.5m. So in the last six months Sony has lost almost 2 million in ground, yet you expect them to make up 8 million in 6 months? They have to even catch 360 before they can think about gaining any ground..and the sales are low outside the holiday quarters..

So 7.5 million is realistically probably an insurmountable lead for this generation, it's already mid 2009. The problem for Sony is whatever they do, MS will just cunter. Sony can increase sales with a price drop soon, but MS just wont sit idly by. MS will just do a price drop of their own if Sony starts beating them too badly.


By BPB on 6/4/2009 3:36:00 PM , Rating: 2
I recently bought my second PS3 60GB cheap on eBay. It had a broken blu-ray drive and was a tad scratched, etc, but the blemishes were not that bad at all. So I got a VERY good price. For $150 more Sony essentially gave me a new 60GB PS3. I couldn't believe the nice unit I got back from their service center! I can't tell it apart from my perfectly kept first 60GB model. It was even wrapped in cellophane just like my first unit when I first opened the box (it was purchased new). That, plus the fact that it comes with a 90 day warranty made me a very happy camper. End of day I spent a bit over $300 and ended up with a very nice (though I'm sure refurbished) unit.

One bit of warning: if you are going to consider doing the same, please note that Sony will not fix an obviously abused model. Mine appeared to be well maintained, it just had a dead drive. It turned on and all, but couldn't read discs.




Still waiting...
By jonmcc33 on 6/4/2009 6:14:47 PM , Rating: 2
Well, until they drop the price to at least $299 I won't be buying any PS3 consoles or any PS3 games. Once they do drop the price they have a sale. So do some thinking, Sony.




.............
By zolo111 on 6/5/2009 7:50:00 AM , Rating: 2
XboX360 is hacked and play pirated games, PS3 hasn't been hacked yet. I guess this's the #1 reason why it's lagging in sales.




By dxf2891 on 6/5/2009 9:40:18 AM , Rating: 2
With the price break and model change will come a reduction in technology. I bought my launch 60 gig version with the media readers and PS2 and PSOne backwards compatability built in. I suggest those of you who are waiting, take a look at ebay specifically for the 60GB launch version.




Sony Says no PS3 Price Cuts Coming
By cdrsft on 6/7/2009 10:08:40 PM , Rating: 2
Then I'm not buying one.

Just because they screwed up early on, doesn't mean the late adopters should be paying extra to try and help Sony "catch up" with everyone else.




By Gingivitis on 6/8/2009 11:21:20 AM , Rating: 2
I have owned all 3 and have to say 360 is by far the better system. here's my pro's and cons to each.
PS3 - Pro's - 1080p, blu-ray, free online (even though its crap) and they even give you an online store.
Ps3 - Con's - NO real exclusives anymore aside from MGS4, resistance, updates take extremely long time even with my 10Mb/s internet. Streaming really is a pain in the ass, constantly stops playing giving me errors. Over priced, Controller not great for Fps' (my type of game)

WII - pro's - cheap, fun for about a month, gives you the great nintendo classics we grew up with like mario and zelda. their online store gives you access to old time classics!!
WII - Con's - Gets boring FAST. I pawned mine after 2 months of use, lets face it you can only have so many different brainiac games and fitness games before it gets old. Its also slow to update and once you get passed the stupid control system its just a GC with a wireless controller and crappier graphics.

360 - Pro's - Cheaper then PS3, Far superior online service, fast updates, great market place for movies games etc, extremely easy for streaming media. ACHIEVEMENTS!!
360 - Con's - The online does cost money but its worth it! Its like the other two console above and has flaws with hardware, Possibility of RRod although I haven't seen a friend have one in the last year, its owned by M$.

I've played all 3, I've done my homework say what you want about your Ps3 being superior or your wii being more fun cuz I know its not more fun or better cuz I have owned all 3, but its okay ps3 and wii fanboys I'd be crying the shameful blues spouting my system is better too if I only owned 1 or the other. I'd buy a 360 hundred times over knowing what I know now.




"You can bet that Sony built a long-term business plan about being successful in Japan and that business plan is crumbling." -- Peter Moore, 24 hours before his Microsoft resignation

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