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Sony XEL-1 OLED HDTV  (Source: Sony)
Sony says OLED HDTVs could see America stores this year depending on Japanese demand

Many home theater enthusiasts have high hopes for OLED technology -- hopes that not only will OLED HDTV sets require less power but that they also will be significantly thinner and provide better color reproduction and image quality.

Engadget is reporting that Sony Electronics President Stan Glasgow revealed in talks this morning with journalists at the Sony Club in New York that, “OLED could come (to the U.S.) before the end of the year." The catch is that OLED HDTVs coming to America is dependent on the demand in Japan and panel supply. In other words if Sony’s OLED XEL-1 is a big hit in Japan, we won’t be seeing them this year in America.

Sony announced its 3mm thick XEL-1 OLED HDTV almost exactly one month ago to lustful stares from home theater fans around the world. The screen size was small at 11-inches and the price was high at about $1744 USD. The Sony XEL-1 OLED TV left many outside Japan reaching for their wallets only to be told the TV wasn’t available outside Japan.

There have been several other announcements in the OLED arena recently with Toshiba announcing that it would have 30-inch OLED HDTVs on the market by 2009. Toshiba, however, stated that the problem with OLED technology was that the method for producing the OLED panels was immature accounting for the increased cost and longer lead times before panels were available.

Just last week Samsung’s Executive Vice President and CTO, Ho Kyoon Chung, unveiled its roadmap for OLED products. Samsung expects to have 40 to 42-inch OLED panels on the market by 2010.

While Toshiba and Samsung make promises to get OLED HDTVs into the hands of consumers, Sony is actually doing it.

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very cool
By Moishe on 11/2/2007 8:40:45 AM , Rating: 2
OLED will be the next gen panel. I hate that SED has all but disappeared... I guess there is room for multiple types though considering that plasma and LCD have both sold very well over the past few years (even though LCD has passed Plasma and the lead continues to widen.)




RE: very cool
By fleshconsumed on 11/2/2007 8:58:13 AM , Rating: 1
At prices like this it won't be for a long time. Knowing that it's Sony, it won't be for a very very long time.

For now I'd be content with LED background LCDs. They should provide much better contrast ratio, they will be thinner, run cooler and run quieter. All that I want really.


RE: very cool
By Moishe on 11/2/2007 9:15:01 AM , Rating: 2
I agree. I think the LED backlit LCDs are really amazing. OLEDs supposedly have some real benefits too, but I've not seen one in person.

OLED will be too expensive for awhile and LCD and Plasmas are getting cheap and cheaper. They'll become the new bargain category. LED backlit is a step up and quite possibly OLED being another step up.


RE: very cool
By SunAngel on 11/2/2007 9:20:45 AM , Rating: 2
True, oh so true.

Have you had a chance to check out Philips Ambilight?

Those sucks give off a tremedous amount heat. Probably the only downfall of LED technology. Otherwise, great lcd tv.


RE: very cool
By ZoZo on 11/2/2007 2:07:22 PM , Rating: 3
Actually LED backlight LCDs are still crap compared to OLED, especially when watching a dark scene in a dark environment. You'll get to notice the difference in a few years.


RE: very cool
By afkrotch on 11/2/2007 5:30:38 PM , Rating: 2
Also LED backlight LCDs suck with response times.


RE: very cool
By BansheeX on 11/2/2007 12:42:31 PM , Rating: 4
Way to take the opportunity to bash Sony for no reason. Also funny that you bring up LED LCDs right after doing it, and then have no criticism for companies like Samsung making LED backlit LCDs that currently cost 3x more than CCFL models. New tech is expensive and marketed to enthusiasts first to recoup R&D costs. Don't go through life being ignorant and hateful. Without Sony pumping money into this tech, we truly would be waiting much longer for it.


RE: very cool
By barjebus on 11/2/07, Rating: -1
RE: very cool
By deeznuts on 11/2/2007 1:16:25 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Right, like putting R&D into building a game console that contains 8 separate cores, each with different functionality, requiring intimate knowledge of each core so as to develop functions unique to each one...riiiight, I wonder who thought that one up?


Umm, Sony, Toshiba and IBM. You think you are smarter than them, collectively? Notice the complaints regarding programming the PS3 are that it's hard. Boofuckinghoo. There are programmers who complain, and then there are those who just do it.

NG: Sigma was beautiful, and ran pretty dang fast. Any complaints? R&C looks awesome. Resistance:FOM was pretty dang good for a launch title. EPIC's Mark Reign won't stop gushing. Infinity Ward seems to be doing ok, saying COD4 looks essentially identical. Lair, while a horrible game, had good graphics. Naughty Dog seems to be doing pretty good with Uncharted. Should I go on?

You want simple go play Cooking Mama on your Wii. This is grown people stuff here. Developers that are hunkering down are getting it done, even multiplat devs. Whiners and lazy devs are the ones you hear about on the internet.


RE: very cool
By barjebus on 11/2/07, Rating: 0
RE: very cool
By Tuor on 11/2/07, Rating: 0
RE: very cool
By BansheeX on 11/3/2007 11:03:17 PM , Rating: 1
Most of the 360 praise comes from PC developers who, unsurprisingly, are partial to the 360 because it's easier to port a PC title to the 360. For developers like Naughty Dog or the R&C guys who are developing a game for the PS3 from the get go, the architecture differences are much less of an issue and they are oftentimes are very complimentary of what the PS3 is allowing them to do. So it's funny, you see these guys who learned DirectX, don't see the equal initial difficulty and proprietary-ness of it, looking at a different system and coming up with all kinds of complaints, and essentially their argument becomes "why does Sony get to dictate their own platform when I already learned Microsoft's?"


RE: very cool
By Treckin on 11/2/07, Rating: 0
RE: very cool
By fleshconsumed on 11/5/2007 9:12:05 AM , Rating: 2
Unlikely this post will ever get read but here's it anyway. No reason you say? Sony stuff is overpriced, and always has been, that's a fact. I got suckered and bought $110 CD player way back when comparable ones from philips were half the price.

Anyway, back to the real world. Newegg carries LED backlit 20" NEC display for about $1600-1700, or roughly the same price as Sony new OLED display. However, Sony display is only 11" big, in other words NEC backlit display has 4 times the area at the same price. That's why I said I'd rather settle for LED backlit displays as they should be smaller, cooler running, allow for better blacks by dynamically dimming leds where necessary, and more importantly much cheaper in the short run.


RE: very cool
By mmntech on 11/2/2007 9:38:48 AM , Rating: 2
I don't think OLED will be the next big thing unless they can solve the problem with low service lives. Supposedly, typical lifetimes are only 5000 hours for blue OLEDs. That only equates to 208 days of continuous use. By comparison, LCD, Plasma, and normal LEDs last 60,000 hours, or 6.8 years of continuous use. Nobody is going to buy a $1000+ TV that only lasts as long as your typical light bulb. Supposedly, there are experiments in the works that would extend the life to 20,000 hours but that's still significantly shorter than contemporary, cheaper displays.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLED#Drawbacks

I'm still pulling for the SED display. I really hope it doesn't end up being vapourware. It's time to bring the CRT back. Better picture, 50,000:1 contrast ratio, ultra fast 0.2ms response times.


RE: very cool
By Moishe on 11/2/2007 10:04:30 AM , Rating: 3
I think they'll get the OLED thing worked out. You're right about lifespans... I want something that costs that much to last a long time like CRTs do. As far as I could tell SED was the best thing all around... but I'm not sure if anyone is still pursuing that.


RE: very cool
By masher2 (blog) on 11/2/2007 1:33:04 PM , Rating: 2
Canon is still pursing SED technology. It'll be slotted into the large-screen HDTV market, though, and isn't initially planned for computer monitors.


RE: very cool
By Rav3n on 11/2/2007 5:59:21 PM , Rating: 2
If Canon SED display technology proves to be half as good as their photo tech, then I'd buy some stock in La-Z-Boy (which is down to 7.49 now http://www.marketwatch.com/quotes/lzb ) because people would definitely be more inclined to sit and have eye-gasms.

Of course... that might be after buying stock in Canon...


RE: very cool
By s12033722 on 11/2/2007 10:35:29 AM , Rating: 2
The Sony OLED is rated at 30k hours, so progress is being made. They still have to get the cost WAY down before this becomes viable.

I am pretty sure SED is dead. The licensing disputes that Canon/Toshiba got in with the IP owner pretty well killed it.


RE: very cool
By AnnihilatorX on 11/2/2007 10:39:04 AM , Rating: 2
With figures quoted in hours some people find it hard to put into perspective

20000 hours equates to almost 9 years of service life if you turn your TV on 6 hours a day,


RE: very cool
By Moishe on 11/2/2007 11:28:28 AM , Rating: 2
yeah... thats pretty much worth it if it's priced competitively. I barely watch 6 hours a week!


RE: very cool
By Fallen Kell on 11/2/2007 1:45:17 PM , Rating: 2
I agree on the no news from SED. The lawsuits are getting rough. Cannon should have simply stopped trying to deal with the joint subsidiary, sucked it up, and made their own fab plant entirely owned by Cannon, which would remove all issues with the lawsuits and allow them to move forward with the tech (even though the lawsuits would continue in their current form over the attempt for the subsidiary).

It was a great tech, too bad it will never make it in the current market.


RE: very cool
By masher2 (blog) on 11/2/2007 2:01:03 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Cannon should have simply stopped trying to deal with the joint subsidiary, sucked it up, and made their own fab plant entirely owned by Cannon...
That's essentially what they did. Canon bought out Toshiba's stake in the joint venture, converting it to a wholly-owned subsidiary.


Panel lifetimes?
By pnyffeler on 11/2/2007 9:14:36 AM , Rating: 2
Anybody know how the lifetimes of the OLED panels stack up to plasma? I thought I had heard that the OLED's wear out relatively fast.

If it's true, I might want a traditional screen that requires a bulb change instead of buying a whole now TV every few years....




RE: Panel lifetimes?
By therealnickdanger on 11/2/2007 9:26:37 AM , Rating: 1
I think the theoretical panel life of plasmas is 60K hours with LCDs being a bit less. I believe OLED is rated at 100K hours... I know I read something to that effect, but can't find it now. Anyone?


RE: Panel lifetimes?
By drank12quartsstrohsbeer on 11/2/2007 9:52:31 AM , Rating: 2
the most promising lifetime ratings for oleds i have seen is 15 to 20k hours. The 'blue' is the limiting factor at teh moment, iirc.

OLED is going to have to do something more than LCD or Plasma for it to become sucessful.
Super thin is nice, but I do not think that will be enough to make siomeone choose oled over LCD/Plasma


RE: Panel lifetimes?
By omnicronx on 11/2/2007 10:31:04 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Super thin is nice, but I do not think that will be enough to make someone choose OLED over LCD/Plasma
You would be surprised how many people choose form over functionality, but i agree with you, OLED definitely needs a bit more punch to sway the masses.


RE: Panel lifetimes?
By barjebus on 11/2/2007 12:28:51 PM , Rating: 2
OLED beats LCD and Plasma in every aspect except for the life of the TV itself. It's still being developed and hasn't even entered mass production yet, so there's bound to be significant improvements in the next three years. Doesn't everyone remember how LCD's lost pixels and Plasma's would get burn in? Oh yeah, thats right, they FIXED those problems.

OLED gives a more vivid, truer color with a wider range of color due to individual per-pixel shading. The contrast ratio and response time are bar none, and to boot it's flat, elegant, can be rolled up or printed using an ink jet printer onto any proper surfaces, AND consumes a minuscule amount of power compared to Plasma and LCD because the technology powers each pixel individually rather than the entire TV all the time.

This will be particularly helpful for the Aussie's since their government recently introduced legislation (not sure if it passed?) limiting the power consumption of TV sets, and the industry has not responded very well with low power usage units.

I really don't know how you can believe OLED don't have anything to offer.


By drank12quartsstrohsbeer on 11/2/2007 5:55:07 PM , Rating: 2
"I really don't know how you can
believe OLED don't have anything
to offer. "

My point was that it doesn't have anything to offer RIGHT NOW.

I've read about the ink jet printing, high contrast, superior color, fast response, high pixel density, roll-it-up and put it in your pocket claims for oled. And i hope they pull it off.

But they haven't... yet.
And dang it, I want a 200dpi 40 inch monitor for my computer that is 1/4 inch thick and used 1 watt of power that I can buy for $100.00. I just don't know how long i will have to wait.


RE: Panel lifetimes?
By PandaBear on 11/2/2007 12:33:37 PM , Rating: 2
It uses less energy. May not be a big deal in TV but in laptop it is a big plus along with its thinness.


RE: Panel lifetimes?
By BansheeX on 11/2/2007 12:54:52 PM , Rating: 2
Bzzzzzt. Wrong. OLED has CRT-like response times (no ghosting or input lag from overdrive tricks), ink blacks and rich, bright colors since it is self-illuminating. LCDs are backlit which cause bleed, lighting non-uniformity and poor contrast. Even localized dimming with LED backlights is an area effect that can't handle small bright objects like stars without producing a glowing effect around them. Mark my words, if the lifespan issue improves, OLED is dreamlike tech that almost makes you think endgame. What could look better than it?


RE: Panel lifetimes?
By BansheeX on 11/2/2007 12:57:55 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, and I forgot to mention that OLED has perfect viewing angles.


RE: Panel lifetimes?
By masher2 (blog) on 11/2/2007 1:41:22 PM , Rating: 2
> "What could look better than [OLED]?"

SED. Higher contrast ratio and brightness, and better color uniformity/gamut. While I agree that OLED is certainly head-and-shoulders above LCDs in terms of image quality, I think terms like "end game" are a bit premature.


RE: Panel lifetimes?
By BansheeX on 11/2/2007 2:56:11 PM , Rating: 2
First of all OLED's have million to 1 contrast ratios far exceeding that of any phosphor technology. Secondly, OLED is theoretically less costly to manufacture than SED ever will be. It is far thinner and lighter than SED can theoretically become. OLEDs can be made very large or scaled very small for use in cameras, phones, handhelds, computer monitors, laptop monitors, you name it. OLED is the better tech and SED, if it ever actually made it to market, would be snuffed out very quickly.


RE: Panel lifetimes?
By masher2 (blog) on 11/2/2007 3:58:38 PM , Rating: 5
> "First of all OLED's have million to 1 contrast ratios far exceeding that of any phosphor technology"

I don't know where people get this stuff. First of all, the theoretical contrast ratio of any emissive display (be it OLED, phosphor, or whatever) is infinite.

The effective contrast ration is a different story, and depends how you measure. This makes it a numbers game by the manufacturer, who usually just quote an on/off contrast measurement, rather than the more accurate ANSI standard (which takes into account interpixel bleed, substrate scattering and many other factors). Using an on/off measurement, one can easily get a million-to-one ratio from an old 1980s-era CRT tube. Using the ANSI checkerboard, however, you won't get anywhere near that.

In the real world, there are plenty of OLED manufacturers quoting ratios in the range of 1000:1 or even less. Saying "OLED have million to one contrast ratios" displays some fundamental misunderstandings. Sony's supposed advanced in black luminance reduction is letting them quote a million-1 ratio, but thats not inherent to the technology itself. Still, I imagine they're simply quoting an O/O ratio, which itself is a bit misleading.

In the final analysis, actual contrast ratio is limited by screen brightness. And here, SED has the edge.

> "It is far thinner and lighter than SED can theoretically become"

True. So? This is a major factor in only certain markets. I don't dispute that OLED will predominate in laptops and handhelds. But longterm, I believe SED will predominate in the HDTV market segment.


Doubt
By DeepBlue1975 on 11/2/2007 10:07:02 AM , Rating: 3
If the firsts to come to market are 11" I guess the demand won't be so high, unless Japanese car makers think of integrating those in car dashes or roofs (?)
And price... Very small screen size and very high price make up for a nice market refusal equation :D

But then, I'm sure sony knows about this and will be selling much bigger screens than 11% (for rocket high prices surely, but at least if they are big enough someone surely will buy them)




RE: Doubt
By jconan on 11/2/2007 10:41:23 AM , Rating: 2
11" that's about the size of a small notebook. The demand is gonna be quite high especially for the bleeding edge crowd. As for SED technology, greed and ip paranoia killed it before it could take off. Maybe SED still has a chance if ip owners see the light.


RE: Doubt
By lumbergeek on 11/2/2007 11:22:01 AM , Rating: 2
Exactly. I would buy an SED TV today. DLP doesn't suit side viewing and for my application, I don't need thin. Thin is nice, but unnecessary. I would put a 46-50" SED into my entertainment center today. Damn shame....


RE: Doubt
By panhead20 on 11/2/2007 3:17:56 PM , Rating: 2
It may be greed and IP paranoia of IP owners that is killing SED, or it may be that the LCD and Plasma manufactures are paying them more to not allow the technology to market.


Price, of course.
By therealnickdanger on 11/2/2007 8:53:28 AM , Rating: 2
With Wal-Mart selling a 50" plasma today for $998 (despite the fact that it's most likely a loss-leader and a POS), PDP and LCD have made huge inroads. OLED has a lot to prove in order to justify its price point in the face of countless consumers who will be buying the afore-mentioned 50" POS. Bring it on!




RE: Price, of course.
By darkpaw on 11/2/2007 9:43:53 AM , Rating: 2
Once the bigger ones hit the market, the same people that bought flat panel TVs for 10k 5 years ago will get them.

The rich will always buy the latest and greatest, no matter what the cost differential is. If Toshiba is saying 30" ones will be in the market by 2009, then affordable ones in the 30-50" range would probably follow about five years later. That is barring any significant breakthrough in manufacturing technology for OLED that significantly improves production.


RE: Price, of course.
By therealnickdanger on 11/2/2007 11:26:40 AM , Rating: 2
Yup, I sold a $20,000 Pioneer Elite 42" EDTV to a customer when I worked part time at Audio King (aka Ultimate) back in 2001. The early adopters will buy anything.


What surpises me the most...
By ninjit on 11/2/2007 1:20:54 PM , Rating: 2
... is that there's a "Sony club" of New York!?!?




Framing this product
By thartist on 11/2/07, Rating: 0
RE: Framing this product
By Silver2k7 on 11/2/2007 6:43:14 PM , Rating: 2
CRT used to be this small to.. im not sure what the first computer monitor we had was.. 12" or something.. :)

They will get bigger, this is the very first consumer product thats avalible.. so Sony can price it any way they like.. when they sort out manufacturing issues and get some competition, prices will start falling.


Design
By Cunthor666 on 11/3/2007 8:16:07 PM , Rating: 2
Gotta love Japanese design. Simply oozes 'future'




Too bleeding edge
By Hieyeck on 11/2/07, Rating: -1
"People Don't Respect Confidentiality in This Industry" -- Sony Computer Entertainment of America President and CEO Jack Tretton

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