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Print 44 comment(s) - last by carl0ski.. on Nov 13 at 12:45 AM
Sony points out that Xbox 360 Core system does not come with a hard drive

Shortly after Microsoft announced its plans to provide high-definition movies and TV shows via Xbox Live, Sony piped up with a comment about the new service.

"I think they are doing a disservice to their consumer base because they are ignoring all those people who bought the Core system," said SCEA PR chief Dave Karraker in a GameSpot story.

Microsoft's Xbox 360 Core system does not ship with a hard drive, which is required hardware for users to take advantage of the upcoming high-def service. A 20GB hard drive may be added to the Core system for under $100, giving it the same data storage capabilities of a Premium console.

In reference to the fact that even the lower-tiered PlayStation 3 ships with a 20GB drive, Karraker said, "We would never segregate or shut out any of our consumers from our entertainment experience because they didn't buy the top of the line system."

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Makes sense?
By milomnderbnder21 on 11/8/2006 9:46:09 AM , Rating: 5
A disservice to the people that opted not to get the hard drive, because they didn't care for the advantages it offered?

Or a service, or the fulfilling of an obligation/responsibilty, to those that decided to spend extra money for a hard drive so that they might enjoy any bonus features it could afford at the time or in the future.

Another non-sensical statement that is characteristic of both companies as they try to get a leg up on the competition.




RE: Makes sense?
By MrSmurf on 11/8/2006 9:51:55 AM , Rating: 2
Just playing devil's advocate here, MS never told Core system buyers that this service would be available. Therefore, how could they have opted not to take advantage of this? MS just states that a memory card is needed for XBL and the MP - nothing more. I can see someone reading about this new feature and getting a Core system and a memory card for Christmas only to be let down.

Obviously it's more propaganda by Sony, don't get me wrong. Core users have the option to purchase the HDD any time they like.


RE: Makes sense?
By Mazzer on 11/8/2006 9:58:26 AM , Rating: 3
You're right because they didnt tell anyone about the service but also buying the premium for another 100$ is the same has getting it separate so I don't see what Sony is trying to pull. O ya, they have their tails between their legs right now. I respect the playstation as a game console...ps1 and 2 were excellent systems as well 3 will be too...But statements like this turn me off to sony and playstation altogether. They need to admit that MS got to this service first, it appeals to the legions of live users, and that they(Sony) are way behind were they need to be in terms of everything.


RE: Makes sense?
By bambamboom on 11/8/2006 10:19:22 AM , Rating: 5
Well the premium came with a LOT for the extra $100, not just the hard drive. The wireless controller, remote, hard drive, and the component cable is quite a deal. I'm also happy to know that they're adding more services to Xbox Live. I mean now instead of going down to Blockbluster to rent a movie I can just call my friends up, jump on XBL, pick a movie, and watch it with friends.

Krakker should STFU about what MS is doing and start flapping his lips about what PS3 is going to do. So far all I know is that PS3 has an online service...but no specifics. Am I going to get a friends list that carries from game to game ala XBL? Am I going to get to download trailers, demos, and other goodies w/ the free service? Am I going to be able to download TV shows, movies, and other cool things w/ the free service? You hear me Krakker? I got question and you got SMACK. ANSWER ME YOU SONY MOUTH PIECE!!!!


RE: Makes sense?
By daftrok on 11/8/06, Rating: -1
RE: Makes sense?
By AmbroseAthan on 11/8/2006 11:24:54 AM , Rating: 3
Alot of the early Premium Systems did come up with a remote for the 360. I received a 360 on launch day with the remote included (not as a seprate package, but inside the 360 Premium box). While it is not overly needed, it is nicer to use for DVD's then the controller (especially for my roommates whom are not very technically aware).


RE: Makes sense?
By Clienthes on 11/8/2006 3:31:11 PM , Rating: 2
Xbox is on the market, PS3 isn't. I don't think you can really say MS needs to "catch up".

Sony may retake the features lead if they ever get to market.

I don't console game. Just thought I'd pipe in.



RE: Makes sense?
By Clauzii on 11/8/2006 11:41:47 PM , Rating: 1
8 days and counting ;)


RE: Makes sense?
By carl0ski on 11/13/2006 12:45:05 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
by Clauzii on November 8, 2006 at 11:41 PM

8 days and counting ;)


8 days and counting and up and up and up

Before you know it , it will be March 2007


RE: Makes sense?
By milomnderbnder21 on 11/8/2006 10:14:38 AM , Rating: 2
That's all true, but I wonder how long microsoft themselves knew that they would have this service up and running at this time. Obviously it takes a fair amount of planning to get something this big going, but at launch time, did they know that it would play out?

In any case, as other posters have said, the Live marketplace already offers a great deal of hard drive required content, and a core user really shouldn't be surprised or upset that Microsoft has decided to use that hard drive as much as they can.

What I think is neat about the system is that it gives you conent in high definition, rather than iTunes' lower resolution videos. To be clear, I don't currently own a 360, and don't download videos on iTunes, but I think this is a good step forward in offering video online.


RE: Makes sense?
By Bacinator on 11/8/06, Rating: 0
RE: Makes sense?
By dwalton on 11/8/2006 11:11:11 AM , Rating: 3
Noone gets the shaft. If you are buying the 360 Core based off budget then you bought what you could afford, strictly a gaming machine.

Why should a core buyer expect the more expensive premium not to have additional functionalities and features that aren't privy to Core 360.

All companies cater to their highend buyers, if they want to sell their highend products.

So what if it cost you more than 100 dollars to get the additional items in the premium, you still have the options of purchasing those items and getting the additional functionalities/features.

Do you get mad at Coke/Pepsi or your favorite drinkmaker because a 12 pack is cheaper than two six packs?



RE: Makes sense?
By Circle T on 11/8/2006 1:37:51 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly, good point. Also, I have an HDTV, but think of it this way...

Hypothetically, should I be mad that Sony is segregating the users that have and don't have an HDTV?? I mean, they offer their games in HD, some up to 1080p. But you can only reap those benefits if you own an HDTV. Its optional, but its there if you want it. You just have to pay to own the set capable of it.

Just like MS and this new content. If you feel that it is worth it for you to get this, you need the HDD to facilitate it. Its there, as an option, if you want it. But no one is forcing you.

Think of it this way as well. Should some Sony users be mad that some users get wifi and others don't?? Wifi isn't required, but if you want it, it is offered for a price.

Or, should some BMW drivers be mad that the M5 has a 500hp V10, while a normal 550i comes with only a 360hp V8?? If you want the extra power and performance, you have to pay for it.

All these things are optional. If you want a HDD in your Xbox, or wifi in your PS3, or 500hp in your BMW, you can get it. But, it isn't free. Nothing is these days.


Sony cannot win
By Jebediah on 11/8/2006 1:03:30 PM , Rating: 2
Since the begining of this next generation talk I've been reading about every new console and as I can see it looks like this generation devil's son is Sony. Sony is doing everything wrong. If they include a HD in every console, they are wrong because they did this, if instead they have chosen not to include a HD (or use the XBOX approach on core an premium packages) they would burn in hell because they didn't add it or because they copy everything that other companies do. So my question is, where all this hate in your hearts comes from? In your opinion everything Sony does is wrong, the processor is to complex to program for, the controller is too light and you cannot change the batteries, there is no need for Blu-ray, Black is so old school, I even heard someone complaining about the master power switch behind the console.

In my opinion a next gen console must offer the best benefit possible, and it depends on which kind of player you are. For U$ 599,00 I will have a console, a multimedia center (which is very silent, something that the XBOX 360 is not) and maybe a computer to surf the web, all in one package. If you prefer something with less features, go ahead an buy the X, then spend another U$ 100,00 for a HDD, another U$ 100,00 for the HD-DVD (which will be the definitive winner of the next-gen war according to Xbox users), or you can simply forget this console story and spend U$ 599,00 on a brand new graphics card for your computer. I don't know if I made a point here, but for me all this discussions are more about hate than price or features (it's serious, a friend of mine hate's sony because he believes playstation killed his beloved Dreamcast :) ).




RE: Sony cannot win
By michal1980 on 11/8/06, Rating: 0
RE: Sony cannot win
By ObscureCaucasian on 11/8/2006 4:21:15 PM , Rating: 2
MS has a bigger hate club than Sony by far, although not because of their Home Entertainment Dept. I think MS should learn something from that department, as it seems to be doing quite well and pleasing many customers.


RE: Sony cannot win
By glennpratt on 11/9/2006 1:45:07 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, but the one thing it isn't doing is making money hand over fist from corporate america.


marketing bs
By RamarC on 11/8/2006 9:52:54 AM , Rating: 2
sony's statements are to be expected from a competitor. but ms is screwing up with its hard-drive offerings. hd content on a 20gig drive??? hah! even with mpeg4/vc1 compression, 1 minute is about 10mb, so a typical movie is still over 1gb. a 20gig drive will get crowded real fast.

all because ms won't use commodity usb drives.




RE: marketing bs
By h0kiez on 11/8/2006 10:09:45 AM , Rating: 2
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=4857

I do wish you could just plug in a 320 GB drive via USB or firewire...but 80 gigs will happen soon and I'd imagine larger ones will come eventually.


RE: marketing bs
By KingViper on 11/8/06, Rating: -1
RE: marketing bs
By h0kiez on 11/8/2006 10:35:46 AM , Rating: 2
Time to go do a little research. Movies will be at 720p with 5.1 audio.

They're supposed to take 4-5 gigs for a two hour movie, hence why they're only "rentals"


Disservice?
By MonkeyPaw on 11/8/2006 10:56:29 AM , Rating: 2
Heh, doesn't Sony know that you can buy a 20GB drive? Even if you have to, it still makes the system cost ~$400, a full $100 cheaper than the 20GB PS3 model! It also looks like XB360 users will be able to upgrade the HDD, too. Will PS3 users have such a privilege? Sony press statements and their primitive mathematics are the real "disservice" to the consumer. Perhaps Sony just feels burned because MS is offering HD movie content in yet another way, this time without requiring an expensive media drive! Sony's idea of "serving" the customer is to make them buy what Sony thinks they need. Woohoo Sony!




RE: Disservice?
By Clauzii on 11/9/2006 7:31:00 PM , Rating: 1
In one of the countless articles already written about PS3, it states that the drive is changable by the user. It sits "traylike" on the left side of the console. Allthough I can't see how to make a copy from a small to a bigger drive directly on the PS3...


RE: Disservice?
By Clauzii on 11/11/2006 10:33:27 AM , Rating: 2
OK, what wasn't right about what I said?


By prdamrican on 11/8/2006 2:02:56 PM , Rating: 3
Sony: "We would never segregate or shut out any of our consumers from our entertainment experience because they didn't buy the top of the line system."

MS: (what they should say) "We would never force our users to buy extra hardware for a service they won't use. We would rather give them the choice."

This is so fun watching them duke it out... Ok, back to G.O.W...




By Clauzii on 11/9/2006 1:52:23 PM , Rating: 2
MS: But we WILL force our customers to pay 3 to 4 times too much for our 20 GB HardDrive :)

And I don't accept the answer, that MS has to get the loss on the machines themselves covered by eg. the HardDrive. IF the drives were priced reasonably, they would sell more of them, and then get the money in on more (the non-free) downloadable content :)


Pot calling the kettle black?
By Scorpion on 11/8/2006 5:09:01 PM , Rating: 2
Is it me or wasn't Sony the one that's been lambasted for not having a harddrive in the PS2? In fact, if you buy a PS2 right now it is essentially worthless unless you also purchase the overpriced memory card with it, because it does not include one with the unit? This is so ridiculous for Sony to use this arguement. Their current and best product on the market fails for the same reason! (The PS3 is not out yet).

I do on the other hand think it's rather dumb that Microsoft offers a 360 without a hard drive. After that being one of the selling points of the original XBox I find it odd that they've stepped back from that by offering a no-hard drive version. I suppose there are a few people who don't need the hard drive, but it seems more often than not it would be a very necessary addition, not to mention that a 20GB drive these days isn't exactly the most expensive technology around.




RE: Pot calling the kettle black?
By Clauzii on 11/8/2006 11:52:58 PM , Rating: 1
Saying that PS2 fails because of overpriced memorycards is a bold statement, I think. Considering the low price on PS2, I don't see this as a problem.

The people/families I talk to, say the prices of GAMES are to high. I think that's why more and more gameshops offers the possibility of trading games, where one can come with a used game and exchange it for another used game - plus a little amount of cash sometimes (around $10).


RE: Pot calling the kettle black?
By Clauzii on 11/11/2006 10:36:11 AM , Rating: 2
In Denmark we have shops like that...


Are Core users surprised?
By Aikouka on 11/8/2006 10:05:58 AM , Rating: 2
Personally, I'm not a Core user, so I can't tell you from my own perspective accurately, but I can tell you this. A person buys an XBOX 360 knowing full-well about XBOX Live and the capabilities it offers. It offers the ability to download game demos or preview videos, but you need a hard drive to store these on . I think that people who purchased a core system already realized that they'd be losing out when it came to the extra goodies on XBOX Live once they laid down the $299 (+ tax if applicable).

Also, I don't agree about Microsoft segregating customers with this service. There's just two different brackets that're created with the console alone. People who care the most about purely gaming (you don't need a HDD to enjoy Gears of War or whatever game you like to play) may be more akin to purchase a Core system where people who want all the frills purchase the Premium system. So, you've already got a two tier setup created.

Also, I have a Premium console, but have absolutely no desire to download these huge videos. I understand the desire to deliver as close to HD content as possible, but you'd have to leave your console downloading overnight to make this worthwhile, and doesn't that ruin the idea of on-demand? It's more like after-nap programming :/.




RE: Are Core users surprised?
By Motley on 11/8/2006 12:36:22 PM , Rating: 2
That would presume that you are using DiVX. Considering this is Microsoft, I'd venture to say they will be encoded as HD-WMV's instead. You can watch as it downloads (Well, give it 30 seconds to buffer).

Even if I had to wait for it to download before I could start watching, it'd still only take me 30 minutes to download the whole movie (25 minutes to be exact for a 2GB movie).


Bandwidth
By kextyn on 11/8/2006 12:55:30 PM , Rating: 2
Has anyone ever downloaded demos and trailers on XBox Live? It's slooooooooow even on a cable connection. I can't imagine how long a high definition movie would take (considering they won't fit on a DVD so they're well over 8GB.)




RE: Bandwidth
By Chris Peredun on 11/8/2006 1:22:30 PM , Rating: 2
Personally I've never had any issues with XBL's speed, and I'd imagine Microsoft has built up a LOT of backbone to handle this added demand.

Regarding the size of downloads:
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=4857

A two hour movie in 720p HD with 5.1 sound will be around 6GB - the Xbox 360 is definitely not limited to archaic (by today's standards) MPEG2 compression.


Shut up already!
By h0kiez on 11/8/2006 10:07:48 AM , Rating: 3
Sony should really just stop running their mouths and let their console talk. If the PS3 is phenomenal, it'll sell. Their comments aren't going to sway anybody that cares and only serve to irritate people that see them as what they are: blatant cheap shots at the competitor for the sake of pumping up your own product.




Core is ok
By OrSin on 11/8/2006 10:15:19 AM , Rating: 3
Actually right now the core users are doing ok. MS will be comonig out with a bigger hard drive soon. THe core user can buy that and be ok. Will the premium users spend meney on hard that its worth crap to them. Also the core users will be able to get alot of 20 GB for cheap very soon.

I don't see it a big deal. Xbox from the start said many features and upgrades will come that will give users a better experience. But will not force users to pay for it if they dont want to. It was hit on Sony forcing the BLue-Ray on people, but its even more true now.

I own the 360 and I have only played 1 game on it but i use it stream movies almost every day. Also to watch TV shows in HD. I'm this close to turning off cable all and just Downloading all the shows I want to watch. $400 to stream HD and to play some games is a good deal for me.




By Bonrock on 11/8/2006 11:55:28 AM , Rating: 3
In reference to the fact that even the lower-tiered PlayStation 3 ships with a 20GB drive, Karraker said, "We would never segregate or shut out any of our consumers from our entertainment experience because they didn't buy the top of the line system."

No, instead Sony just shuts out 90% of customers from their entertainment experience by pricing their cheapest system at $500.




Here we go again
By CoreGamer on 11/8/2006 9:50:38 AM , Rating: 2
This is like a 4 foot man saying a 7 foot guy is short...WTF Sony? You DONT EVEN HAVE A PROUDUCT IN THE MARKET YET! All thi s "We Copy your features and then say we are better" crap is getting old....fast




By Chris Peredun on 11/8/2006 11:23:38 AM , Rating: 2
Creature overheard remarking that the grapes were sour anyways, and he never wanted them in the first place.




Sony
By gramboh on 11/8/2006 11:26:00 AM , Rating: 2
I can't wait to see how awful their "free" online service is compared to Live. I bet they will push back on 3rd party developers to support online who will end up charging gamers. At least I hope so as I want awful Sony propietary crap out of the gaming market.




errr....
By Zearth on 11/8/2006 11:42:26 AM , Rating: 2
"In reference to the fact that even the lower-tiered PlayStation 3 ships with a 20GB drive, Karraker said, "We would never segregate or shut out any of our consumers from our entertainment experience because they didn't buy the top of the line system."

No, instead you will segregate them based on where they live. japan you can go first, usa next, THEN a few months later you guys in Europe will be blessed with our ps3 light. They sort of slammed the door too with the lawsuits about importing one from another country.




Sony's suggestion
By Jellodyne on 11/8/2006 11:54:49 AM , Rating: 2
Microsoft's new service is not fair to Core buyers -- Sony feels Microsoft shouldn't offer it at all and thus ignore ALL of their customers. I guess?




FUD
By VooDooAddict on 11/8/2006 1:00:49 PM , Rating: 2
To those agreeing with the Sony FUD...

Would it have been better for Microsoft to state it as a Premium system benefit and then not deliver it for a year?




Sony's a hypocrite
By SamOfSiam on 11/8/2006 1:22:38 PM , Rating: 2
Correct me if I am wrong, but originally, wasn't the difference between the PS3's budget version and ultimate version was that Sony wasn't going to include HDMI in the budget version? So originally, Sony was going to segregate their consumers?
They don't have a product out yet, so they can say whatever they want. But this is clearly some stupid remark to try to make Sony look better to the consumer.




Time to buy stock in MS
By Dfere on 11/10/2006 9:13:51 AM , Rating: 2
Everyone here seems to agree on one point. That MS has now created two markets for one product.

What other company pulls that off? Sure MS is making serious money on windows, but as much as you complain about it, that is exactly what the company is supposed to do- maximize profit for its shareholders. Bill was even gracious enough to become insanely wealthy, not by salary and options rip offs, but by holding huge amounts of stock in the company. He gambled with it.

And everyone hates him for it. Sure, he backstabbed, he derailed competitors, in his early days he was something of a snake oil salesman.

Guess who else was described like that? Andrew Carnegie.

What is truly amazing to me, is that despite the high cost of MS stock, they may have actually added value here by launching a service to compete with AOL/Google and possibly then Myspace and everything else. MS tried to get into set top boxes and their own ISP service. These failed. Then BAM, build a good piece of hardware and again try to take over the web.

Marvelous bastards. I hate them too.




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