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Sony CEO Howard Stringer sees HD DVD/Blu-ray Disc war as "stalemate"

Sony Corp. CEO Sir Howard Stringer is a realist. Charged with the duty of returning Sony similar form from the glory days, Stringer wants every single endeavour of the company to be a success, including Blu-ray Disc.

Stringer told media on Thursday that he feels the current high-definition format war between Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD is in a state of “stalemate.”

“It's a difficult fight,” said Stringer, possibly referring to the recent string of exceptionally priced HD DVD players at under $100. Prices of HD DVD players started plummeting after Wal-Mart revealed its plans to stock the Toshiba HD-A2 for $198. Other retailers quickly followed, with special pre-Black Friday pricing hitting as low as $99.

While HD DVD always had more affordable hardware on its side, the Blu-ray Disc camp held a stronger hand of exclusive studios. That all changed when Paramount and DreamWorks sided exclusively with HD DVD, levelling the playing field.

“We were trying to win on the merits, which we were doing for a while, until Paramount changed sides,” Stringer said, adding it was mostly a matter of prestige which format wins out in the end. Stringer downplayed the overall importance of the format war, saying, “It doesn't mean as much as all that.”

Interestingly, Stringer believed that there was an opportunity early on to completely avert the high-definition format war if he had been CEO of Sony Corp. during the formation of the Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD formats. Stringer expressed that he wishes he could travel back in time to unite the two sides prior to launch.

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Can't go back in time...
By Orbs on 11/9/2007 4:26:13 PM , Rating: 5
But you can do things to change the future. Now that you're CEO, what are you going to do about it? Cheaper BluRay? Some sort of compatibility story for all BluRay players?

I want a CEO not to complain, but to have some vision for a solution. Some long-term plan. I also want him/her to get everyone geared up and to start acting on that plan.




RE: Can't go back in time...
By akugami on 11/9/2007 4:34:09 PM , Rating: 4
What I find interesting is that they were trying to win on the merits of Blu-Ray and yet from all that we've seen, HD-DVD was the more complete format upon release, what with the Blu-Ray 1.0, 1.1, and 1.2 specs. That had to have brought joy to all the early BR adopters who got bent over with non updatable players that cost them from $600-1000.

I also wonder how well BR would have done without the PS3...which isn't selling too hot as it is. Also wondering whether the strong BR support was because of the PS3 including a BR player and the (then) strong Playstation branding. It's interesting to see that with the PS3 floundering, Blu-Ray is losing some of it's exclusive support.


RE: Can't go back in time...
By MonkeyPaw on 11/9/2007 4:54:04 PM , Rating: 5
Not to turn everything Sony says or does into something about the PS3, but I think this guy realizes that BluRay has really impacted the PS3 from the start. BluRay contributed to PS3 launch delays and initial product shortages, and BR continues to effect PS3's price. As a consequence, developers are reluctant, solid (exclusive) game titles are few and far between, and buyers have gone elsewhere. Granted, Cell isn't a fun CPU to work with, but PS2 was "worth it" to developers. Some people see the PS3 as a potential gaming powerhouse, others see it as a good HD movie player. The problem is, I'm don't think many people see it as both, or at least buy it for both reasons. Sony was hoping the PS3 would give BluRay the win, but since it hasn't, both products are suffering.


RE: Can't go back in time...
By mcnabney on 11/9/2007 8:39:22 PM , Rating: 1
Sony was just trying to leverage two frequently separate consumer electronics devices off of one another, and ended up bending both levers.
This is what happens when you try to force your own proprietary ideas on the market.

A better question would be, at what point will Sony start releasing film from the studios they own in the 'other' format?


RE: Can't go back in time...
By MrPickins on 11/12/2007 4:03:50 PM , Rating: 2
Blu-Ray is no more proprietary than HD-DVD.


RE: Can't go back in time...
By maverick85wd on 11/10/2007 9:49:37 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Some people see the PS3 as a potential gaming powerhouse, others see it as a good HD movie player. The problem is, I'm don't think many people see it as both, or at least buy it for both reasons.

Everyone I know that has one uses it for both and so would I, and usually the fact that you could use it to watch movies in 1080p was also a large factor in their purchase... and that includes people that are tech savvy and people that are not


RE: Can't go back in time...
By othercents on 11/10/2007 11:27:22 AM , Rating: 3
At one point in time I was thinking about getting a PS3 for both gaming and Blue-ray, but now I'm waiting for the 360 to have an internal HDDVD drive. I really do think the format war is being won by HDDVD at this point. I know Blue-ray started out well, but with the latest exclusives and cheaper players HDDVD is starting to pickup speed.

I wouldn't be suprized to see 42" HD TVs coming with a free HDDVD player for Christmas. Then the only reason for combo drives will be for those people who were early adoptors of Blue-ray. From experience I can say "Price Dictates All". Your average consumer looking at two HD Players will choose the cheaper one. Especially since the video output will look identical for most people.

Other


RE: Can't go back in time...
By 0roo0roo on 11/10/2007 11:42:10 AM , Rating: 2
bingo, price reducing a cpu/gpu/ram/wifi/elaborate cooling etc will take quite a long time for any company. price reducing a simple video player is much much simpler. price wins.

hddvds are cheap to stamp out. this means the studios make money and reach the break even point for a release faster. this in the end will matter more.

and potential piracy which does drive hardware sales would probably be in hddvds favor in many countries.


RE: Can't go back in time...
By Official on 11/9/07, Rating: -1
RE: Can't go back in time...
By PurdueRy on 11/9/2007 7:30:16 PM , Rating: 4
Those of us who don't line up for every Sony product realize that we would much rather have a standalone player than a game console. If you have been paying attention to the news lately many of us got a Toshiba HD-A2 or HD-A3 for $100. Even now the A3 is anywhere from $160 or so new on Ebay to $250 or so on amazon. Once the holiday season approaches you will see more deals on these players making it cheap to enter the HD market.

Nothing Blu-ray offers can touch these prices.


RE: Can't go back in time...
By PurdueRy on 11/9/07, Rating: 0
RE: Can't go back in time...
By PurdueRy on 11/9/2007 7:30:48 PM , Rating: 2
Apologize for the double post....don't know why that happened


RE: Can't go back in time...
By tdawg on 11/9/2007 7:55:44 PM , Rating: 3
Now I'll say it: Wow.

What are we supposed to learn by that chart? Everything is basically equal (audio and video output) except the price of the standalone devices.

As for the rest, I'm not going to start a fight.


RE: Can't go back in time...
By zombiexl on 11/9/2007 8:06:02 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
except for the fact that PS3 STILL has nearly twice the amount of games available with more popular titles(with the exeption of halo)


???? What?????

Put the crack pipe down and please step away from the keyboard. PS3 has way fewer games than the 360.


RE: Can't go back in time...
By CrazyBernie on 11/9/2007 8:11:31 PM , Rating: 1
I think he's referring to the fact that the PS3 has the PS2 library available... a point which is moot with the $399 version since it doesn't have backwards compatibility with PS2 games.


RE: Can't go back in time...
By zombiexl on 11/9/2007 8:21:08 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah and the PS2 has all those games as well. You can hardly count those as PS3 games. Plus that other article today seems to indicate BC is going away soon for all PS3 models.


RE: Can't go back in time...
By retrospooty on 11/9/2007 8:13:24 PM , Rating: 5
"If people really want to know why HDDVD players are cheap and BR cost a bit more they should look at the stats on CNET"

That chart didnt explain anything, gee thanks !

the reason BR is so much more expensive is SONY.

#1 Sony is fat and inefficient and its difficult to do things cheaply
#2 Sony charges steeply on all products for the "prestige" of having the Sony name, and has not yet realized that they are not a prestigious name any longer and have not been for at least 5 years.


RE: Can't go back in time...
By mcnabney on 11/9/2007 8:44:35 PM , Rating: 2
I am no great fan of Sony. I currently only own one of their fine products, but they really do make a decent product. Unfortunately for them they now have equal competition in the marketplace. The days of the Trinitron picture tube standing out are over.


RE: Can't go back in time...
By retrospooty on 11/9/2007 8:51:00 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed, they do make some good products, but at the end of the day, you are going to watch the same movie on BR or HD-DVD, and it will display at the same quality, HD-DVD, as low as $100 on sale for a player or $200 regular price, BR-$400.

Its not worth 2x as much, and when BR players are down to $200, HD-DVD will be $80.


RE: Can't go back in time...
By mcnabney on 11/9/2007 9:23:56 PM , Rating: 2
I totally agree. Both formats provide for 99.9% of the same usage ability. Each format does have a couple quirks that may make it more attractive, to some people, for some uses, at some times. But they both fill the exact same market niche.

I would have run out to get one of those $98 Walmart upconverting HD-DVD players, but I am still so annoyed at the whole fight that it just isn't worth investing in until a body hits the floor and disc price drop under $20 for all titles.

As a further negative, I stopped buying DVDs too. That Redbox at McDonalds has been keeping me up to date at awesome prices.


RE: Can't go back in time...
By Axbattler on 11/10/2007 8:00:16 AM , Rating: 2
Down the line though, I think the price of the two will converge - or close enough that it's irrelevant (akin to picking between a Pioneer and a Samsung for DVDRW). Further down, and dual-format players will take over (I don't see either format throwing the towel).

I see BD-R in a better light than HD-DVDR though. Both are still too expensive, and for burners, I think that HD still have the edge. But not for the media.


RE: Can't go back in time...
By retrospooty on 11/10/2007 10:33:45 AM , Rating: 4
They will have to converge... If Sony doesn't drop prices, then they will lose the format war. If prices were equal, BR certainly has a better offering.


RE: Can't go back in time...
By MrPickins on 11/12/2007 4:06:44 PM , Rating: 2
Plenty of manufacturers are making Blu-Ray players.

How is it all Sony's fault?


RE: Can't go back in time...
By afkrotch on 11/12/2007 5:19:05 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
"If people really want to know why HDDVD players are cheap and BR cost a bit more they should look at the stats on CNET"

That chart didnt explain anything, gee thanks !

the reason BR is so much more expensive is SONY.

#1 Sony is fat and inefficient and its difficult to do things cheaply
#2 Sony charges steeply on all products for the "prestige" of having the Sony name, and has not yet realized that they are not a prestigious name any longer and have not been for at least 5 years.


Bias much? Reason BR is more costly is the blue laser. Second reason the movies cost just a bit more, is that you cannot use existing DVD manufacturing plants to create the movies. HD-DVD is nothing more than a DVD that uses a thinner red laser. One of the reasons why BR has a higher storage capacity.

The only reason I personally lean towards blu-ray is storage size. I could care less if movies/games use all the storage or not. I just want a burner that uses a disc with a lot of storage. Backing up 5 TB of data onto DVD blows. Large storage tape drives are too expensive. Shoot, a blu-ray burner with 50 discs would be less.


RE: Can't go back in time...
By retrospooty on 11/12/2007 5:58:17 PM , Rating: 2
urp... Both BR and HD-DVD use the exact same blue laser from the exact same manufacturer.

next!


RE: Can't go back in time...
By ruibing on 11/12/2007 5:10:42 PM , Rating: 2
If you look at the latest numbers, Blu Ray's lead is only increasing despite the price drop on the HD-DVD players and Transformers.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/11/09/nielsen-video...


RE: Can't go back in time...
By Procurion on 11/13/2007 10:56:13 AM , Rating: 2
Not disputing the raw numbers of sales, but that was for the week ending on Nov 4th. The sales on the HDDVD players were just conducted and it will take time for the retail movie sales to hit the surveys. It might not change even then, but if 100,000 people buy two or three new HDDVD movies it will create one heck of a spike!


RE: Can't go back in time...
By ChristopherO on 11/9/2007 7:40:06 PM , Rating: 1
You're forgetting something. Not every problem has a "progressive" plan of action. Sometimes you just kill something off, take your lumps, but prevent taking long-term losses.

Actually this makes me hopeful that Sony might be willing to go the universal-player route. I think Howard said exactly what he needed to make investors feel better. Stockholders are known to get furious with companies when they wade into a price-war with their competitors. Since Sony is already trying to do this with the PS3, it's good to know they won't open up battles on multiple fronts. I don't think I'm a shareholder (my mutual funds might have Sony shares), but generally this is a better strategy. Especially since they are just recovering from the worst financial period in their history.

I've also been saying all-along that dual is the future. Samsung has the right idea. I bet that the hardware companies who don't get on board are going to see themselves losing a lot of market share. That doesn't mean the studios need to switch sides (since media-type is irrelevant when players can do both).


propietary is not the way Sony,
By hometheaterguy on 11/9/2007 7:11:07 PM , Rating: 5
As I CEDIA certified home theater installer I have installed many Sony products. In most cases I try to talk the customer out of them for roughly two reasons. High failure rates and the simple fact that Sony opts to make everything ....well Sony. For instance a Sony television with a memory card slot will only accept a Sony memory card. A Sony PSP will only talk to a Sony location free television base station...etc. The goal is simple. To make all of your consumer electronics Sony branded. This is why I avoid their products given the chance. If Sony opted to follow standards and not attempt to make everything work with only their products I feel they would gain more market presence. Too many consumers see through this and don't like the strategy. Whats keeping Sony from talking with Toshiba and licensing a player of a Sony branding that would play both formats? Its that strategy of "lets try to own every electronic that the consumer buys". Open your minds Sony and just maybe more people will open theirs and their wallets in your direction. That and make your players boot faster and use better board level components.




RE: propietary is not the way Sony,
By BansheeX on 11/9/07, Rating: -1
RE: propietary is not the way Sony,
By Locutus465 on 11/10/2007 12:48:47 AM , Rating: 4
Wine anyone?


RE: propietary is not the way Sony,
By BansheeX on 11/10/07, Rating: -1
RE: propietary is not the way Sony,
By retrospooty on 11/11/2007 11:19:28 AM , Rating: 4
Your logic? oh pleeeeeese...

You do almost nothing on this site but post blindly illogical crap favoring Sony, BR, and PS/3. That is the definition of a fanboy.


RE: propietary is not the way Sony,
By BansheeX on 11/11/07, Rating: -1
RE: propietary is not the way Sony,
By retrospooty on 11/11/2007 5:41:37 PM , Rating: 5
#1 Microsoft makes the OS, there are not issues with them making the API that runs on it.

#2 Direct X is an Open API... Anyone can program on it, to run on any computer. If Sony made an API, it would only work on Sony hardware.

See the difference? Probaly not, because as I mentioned, you do nothnig here but back Sony.


RE: propietary is not the way Sony,
By BansheeX on 11/11/07, Rating: -1
RE: propietary is not the way Sony,
By retrospooty on 11/11/2007 7:20:07 PM , Rating: 2
gimme a break. Your pro Sony Rhetoric is downrated all over the place. It cant POSSIBLY be that people think your full of hooey cant it? No, it must be foul play.

No, DX is a windows API, of course no Linux, Linux is a smaller percentage of the market than even Mac is. Still it is not relevant to your defense of Sony. Sony is not a software company, they are a hardware company, and the post you replied to above is blasting Sony for proprietary hardware. YOu cant say MS is proprietary with regard to hardware. They even support both BR and HD-DVD in thier OS.


RE: propietary is not the way Sony,
By BansheeX on 11/11/07, Rating: -1
By retrospooty on 11/11/2007 10:18:16 PM , Rating: 2
"You should be ashamed of yourself for your irrational fear of Sony"

I have no irrational fear of Sony. I just don't like the way they do business and I don't buy from them. Fear is not involved. Many people feel that way, its not just a me thing. there are Sony haters everywhere... Why? Because Sony f#$%s up everything it touches (except maybe TV's) and charges rediculous prices to do it. I hate to see fanboy's like you who blindly push Sony's virtues. Clearly by your posts you back anything and everything they do, without wavering. That is the definition of a fanboy. As for the bad ratings, I feel like you are very paranoid, and worried about what people think, so I very VERY much encourage you to email the admins and launch an investigation. I just hope you properly apologize to me when you realize that people think your Sony biased opinion sucks.


By Gravemind123 on 11/11/2007 10:29:11 PM , Rating: 3
I don't see how you can sit here and defend Sony while bashing MS for the proprietary formats. Yes, MS makes their own software formats, yes Sony makes their own hardware formats. There is no difference between what they are doing, trying to have consumers use their formats on their products. Lots of companies do this, it gets consumers to use more of their products instead of a competitor's.

You can't defend one companies attempts to get everyone to use their products and then go and bash another for doing it. It's all the same, Microsoft trying to make you buy Vista for DX10 and Sony making you buy their products for them to interact in all specified ways is the same thing. If you bash one company for lockdowns, then bash them all for it.


RE: propietary is not the way Sony,
By Hawkido on 11/14/2007 3:01:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
YOu cant say MS is proprietary with regard to hardware


XBox Hard Drives Vs PS3 Hard Drives... 'Nuff Said...


RE: propietary is not the way Sony,
By glennpratt on 11/11/2007 11:20:02 PM , Rating: 5
You do realize he's referring to Wine Is Not an Emulator, as in the Win32+DirectX compatibility layer for Linux. So in fact, that was a rebuttal.


By retrospooty on 11/11/2007 11:52:16 PM , Rating: 2
I dont think he does... I don't think he realizes much of anything that isnt pro Sony or at least goes along with his points.


RE: propietary is not the way Sony,
By Official on 11/9/07, Rating: -1
RE: propietary is not the way Sony,
By zombiexl on 11/9/2007 8:17:29 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Research the very very best HDTV and see if the name comes up sony.

My money (and eyes) say Samsung and LG are better.

quote:
Research the coolest hand held gaming system and see if its a psp.

Numbers would say the DS is better.

quote:
have a digital camera that takes awesome pictures..... I think it says sony on the side.

I have a few Olympus camera's and they blow away my cousins sony.

That all said I do have a few sony things. I have an older sony 5 disc that support DVD+/-R disc. I just gave away an old dual format sony DVD burner. I think I an old sony S-VHS player in my garage. I'd agree their failure rate is low (except batteries). I just dont think they are worth the over inflated price.


RE: propietary is not the way Sony,
By Official on 11/9/07, Rating: -1
RE: propietary is not the way Sony,
By CrazyBernie on 11/10/2007 1:10:07 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
"This one is easy. The PSP is quite obviously leaps and bounds more powerful than the Nintendo DS as far as displaying 3D graphics is concerned "G4TV.com

As the Wii has done well in proving, more powerful is not equal to more popular. Sometimes you actually need to entertain your consumers...

quote:
Just admit that if you made a bit more money you would purchase quality products.

Saying Nintendo doesn't produce quality products is like saying World of Warcraft isn't a successful game. Just because you like over-the-top bloody violence and someone else likes a light-hearted adventure game doesn't show a quality difference.

And as far as the price argument is concerned, I had the money to pay for a PSP when they were first released at a rediculous price. I chose the DS for the types of games it had out, and the unique and entertaining control scheme that the dual screen afforded. It was merely a bonus that I had extra money left over to buy a handful of games. Can't say I've been dissapointed in the quality of the system in the least. Hell, I might even buy another one just so I can get it in Black&Red. But you go ahead and spend more money on what you perceive to be a better product.


RE: propietary is not the way Sony,
By BansheeX on 11/11/07, Rating: -1
RE: propietary is not the way Sony,
By AlphaVirus on 11/12/2007 11:50:12 AM , Rating: 2
I have to agree that the fanbase of Nintendo is strong. I would like to add to this, they make simple games aka "casual" games. Honestly alot of people do not have coordination, patience, and motivation to play real games.

I just had a gaming party this past weekend and we had a Wii and 360 to play on. We played the Wii first, each game lasted about 15 minutes and were not all that great. Nintendo wins hands down on colorful, friendly games with no talking and all music/sound effects. Every game we played made use of the wiimote but was it really worth it, not at all. From swinging, to squatting, to looking silly, you do some stupid things to play these games it gets old fast.

I think the Wii is both good and bad for the gaming community as a whole. It adds more gamers with simple things which is good because of obvious reasons, more people to play with. Its bad because its a couple of steps back. Considering the graphics are similar to the gamecube/n64/playstation 1, I feel like I am going back in time which I dont want to do. I want to see games progress and the Wii is just not that.


By Locutus465 on 11/12/2007 3:55:57 PM , Rating: 2
I think you seriously under estimate the Wii's graphics if you think they're on the same level as an n64/ps1... I agree that they don't have all the amazing prettiness you'll get on a 360, but the Wii pwns the n64/ps1 graphics.... Honestly I think they're generally better than what I seen out of most PS2 games... This is not to say the Wii has amazing graphics by any stretch, but they're not horrible... The Wii's contribution is it's innovative control system which I think is going to have a huge impact on the future of gaming... Heck, sony already has limited motion sensing in the current PS3 controller...


By zombiexl on 1/8/2008 12:42:16 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Just admit that if you made a bit more money you would purchase quality products.


Trust me I have the money, I just dont waste it on a name. If you notice on the TV's i said my money and my eyes. Samsung's simply look better to me..


By blaster5k on 11/10/2007 10:17:47 AM , Rating: 1
Currently, Sony does make the highest quality LCD flat panel HDTVs according to reviewers (with the XBR4 and W3000 series). Samsung has traditionally had worse processing than Sony even though they use the same panels, but they've been getting better. A couple of their latest models are close to Sony in picture quality, but they aren't any cheaper though. As for for LG, well, they're cheaper, but the picture quality isn't as high.


By SavagePotato on 11/10/2007 12:20:51 PM , Rating: 2
Sony and Samsung work together to make panels. Their LCD's have the same panels in them.

Sony tends to put more expensive components in "the rest" of the unit, higher price, higher quality.

I have a Samsung FPT5084. Very very very happy with it's quality. A good comparison though is the DLP market the sony projection tv's put out a much nicer picture by far than the Samsungs. All in all Samsung at least in my opinion is still the price performance leader.

Now I have a PS3, but I would be hard pressed to claim the PSP is the best handheld. By all accounts it has always been a strugging handheld, but the recent price drop and power boost I'm sure will help.

As for cameras. I would have to say I am partial to canon.


By peter7921 on 11/13/2007 6:18:49 PM , Rating: 2
As far as TV's go, picture quality still has to go with Plasma especially Pioneers latest sets. Although Sony makes great LCD's some of the best on the market(They are way to overpriced though).

DS hands down kills PSP.

Again with cameras I prefer Canon, great lenses. Sony makes terrible cameras.

As far as HDVD/Bluray go when the picture quality is identical, who cares how much space each can hold. Lets face it unless you are talking about PC storage, no one care that Quad-layer Bluray can hold 100GB.


By CrazyBernie on 11/9/2007 8:19:01 PM , Rating: 2
Coolest handheld = Nintendo DS

Best DVD format = DVD

Best Digital Camera = Eh... depends on the day of the week.

^_^


RE: propietary is not the way Sony,
By FITCamaro on 11/10/2007 7:56:00 AM , Rating: 2
What exactly does a quad layer Blu-ray disc have to do with whether or not it is a better high def DVD standard? That makes it better for data backup purposes. There is absolutely no need for 100GB of storage for a movie. It's not that big.

quote:
And my old dvd player from like 1999/2000 that is sitting in my garage says sony on it too......"high failure rate" get real....I gaurantee if I went and bought another brand of anything for my home entertainment that it would work just fine with all my other sony products.


Do you even know where you were going with that? One second you're talking about an old DVD player, the next failure rate, and then finally about how non-Sony products will work with Sony products.

Sony makes quality products. But they are by no means the best of the best anymore. Maybe in the 80s and early 90s. But they've grown lazy and complacent due to their belief that they're the best. Now they're merely the same as everyone else for consumer electronics. And for standards, they don't adhere to hardly any of them. Everything has to be their "standard".

A friend of mine bought a 46" Sony Bravia LCD TV. It is an extremely nice TV. But he could have gotten a Hitachi with the same features for less money. And the Hitachi had a DVI port instead of VGA. Which would have come in handy considering he was trying to hook up a computer to his TV.


RE: propietary is not the way Sony,
By BansheeX on 11/10/07, Rating: -1
RE: propietary is not the way Sony,
By Locutus465 on 11/11/2007 12:32:07 AM , Rating: 2
Unfortunetly this war isn't being fought with recordable devices, and I seriously doubt the mass market understands the difference... In order for BD to win they need to be able to get more hardware on the market.. With $200 players, $99 super save speacials and mega insentives in the form of media BD doesn't have a hope... All HD-DVD camp needs to do is continue waging the war with affordable players and insentives and BD may very well be done.


RE: propietary is not the way Sony,
By BansheeX on 11/11/07, Rating: -1
By FITCamaro on 11/11/2007 9:51:03 PM , Rating: 2
My personal desire is to choose the format that makes it easier for me to make a backup of the content on the disc. That's HD-DVD, not Blu-ray.


RE: propietary is not the way Sony,
By Locutus465 on 11/12/2007 12:09:26 AM , Rating: 2
My "personal desire" is to not have to pay any more than I have to for the tech I want... Hence my preference for HD-DVD at this time, though if BD camp managed to come out with *ANYTHING* in the ball park of what I paid to hook a Toshiba HD-A2 up to my 50" SlimDLP (720P) TV I can assure you that I would jump at the chance to get it...

The problem is, BD doesn't have such hardware, nore will they any time soon, HD-DVD has already had hardware on sale at "don't even think just buy" pricing and has hardware regularly priced with in the ballpark of reason...

As far as recordables... Personally I wouldn't have a whole lot of use for recordables in either format... My hard drives are big enough that it would take *SEVERAL* BD or HD disks to do a back up, and it would be a nighmarish pain... Hence I back up onto external HD... It's just eaiser. Which has been my problem with the "best storage option" argument for me from the beginning... If you're an enthusiest like me, then your disks and data are already large enough that BD/HD-DVD aren't that much better of an option than plain old regular DVD, so you look for other options. So when it comes down to recordables, at least from where I sit it seems to me like what people really want are a medium on which they can write Video data (movies/TV shows etc) and play it back again in their player... If this turns out to be what most people are really looking for then it *really* doesn't matter... They're both equally good, particularlly at less than legally reproducing media you pick up on Net Flix/Block Buster... Even with BD you're not going to save anything at all, you won't be able to mesh multiple movie disks on to a single BD disc, so what does it matter?

Of course, for the people out there who really do prefer to back up on to optical media, then sure yes BD is better than HD-DVD at this point in time... I'd just perfer not to pay $400 for the privilege of watching high def movies so you can squeeze a few extra bits of data onto a disc.


RE: propietary is not the way Sony,
By BansheeX on 11/12/2007 1:27:34 AM , Rating: 1
My "personal desire" is to not have to pay any more than I have to for the tech I want...

And this is how China owns us. They can practically enslave their people and offer cheaper products than what anyone here can make, but we'll buy them because they're cheaper.

Some things are worth waiting for. Both formats will get cracked like DVD was and you'll be able to make however many copies you want. Regions? Who cares. Blu-ray has three regions. Oh no, we have to wait a few months to get Harry Potter in the states! It's not as big of a deal as you'd like to make it.


RE: propietary is not the way Sony,
By SirLucius on 11/12/2007 9:29:04 AM , Rating: 2
I've never understood the regions argument. The regional codes for Blu-ray are far better than what DVD had to offer. Yeah, it's nice to not have region codes, but how many people here can honestly say that they own a large collection of movies that aren't specific to their region, or that they even plan to acquire movies that aren't specific to their region? At least in the US, the big name foreign films almost always get a US release, and a good deal of the more obscure ones wind up getting a US release as well. I've found that the difference between a US release and the original is usually nothing, save for the fact that the original may not have English subs. Not to mention the fact that at some point there will be region free Blu-ray players, just like you can get region free DVD players now. But from the way people talk about region codes, you'd think they only watch K-dramas and obscure Wong Kar Wai movies that aren't released outside of Asia.


By Locutus465 on 11/12/2007 10:01:40 AM , Rating: 2
For Banshee:
It is a global market, Western Nations use developing eastern ones (i.e. china) to produce goods... And obviously there are chinese companies which operate and manufacture locally contributing to the local economy... This isn't a bad thing, from our perspective it might look like slave labor, but from theirs it's actually a huge improvement... Just look at the boom happening in Vietnam. It's not fair to say they own us, it's more fair to say that we need each other now more than ever... Very few nations in this world (if any) are totally self relient any more... I see this as a good thing, short of electing another cowboy to office in washington it should discourage large scale violent conflict.

For SirLucius:
BD region coding seperates the US from Europe which I don't like... If I'm going to buy any forgine film, it'll probably be European (I'm not big into Anime)... I like being able to do this, and I would like to continue being able to do this, beleive it or not good movies come out of Europe. More over, I love the fact that I can get HD Movies from all over the world at the price points we're already seeing from HD-DVD... And I'll be completely and totally extadic once 1080P media becomes a comodody and completely replaces the regular DVD in the market place, because really that's what it's going to for the general populus to switch to high def media... Not features, or nifty cool video/audio... Them not having a choice but to... Again, this is why I like HD-DVD the best, because HD-DVD is quickly and steadily marching twards this while BD camps sits around on its high end niche market laurals.


By blackseed on 11/13/2007 2:47:14 PM , Rating: 1
you have no clue what you are talking about.

HDTV: Pioneer or Panny has been on top all the time.
Handheld: DS is the COOLEST as you put it.
BEST DVD: LOL You want Blue Ray? I give you Blue Ray.
Digital Camara: LOL, stay with Cannon or Nikkon. They been the best for ages.

No name brand old DVD player from 1998 that I bought from cotsco still plays like a charm. Go read and learn more before you discuss best of the best stuff.


Hah
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 11/9/2007 4:31:09 PM , Rating: 5
Given the technical requirements for the players, it would have been relatively easy to produce a player to play both, and then roll it that way, or have gone to the DVD Consortium and decided which would be the successor. Instead Toshiba went to the DVD Consortium and got itself approved as the High Definition Successor of DVD, Sony formed the Blu Ray Consortium and never looked back. Had Sony decided to compete with HD DVD in the DVD Consortium, they might very well have won and became the endorsed standard averting this entire format war. Sony's "Go it alone with or without you" attitude got them into this mess.

I concur with Howard here, with hindsight he very well could have nipped this shit early on rather than wage war on the open market. Their mistake.




RE: Hah
By MADAOO7 on 11/9/2007 4:59:29 PM , Rating: 2
In the end though, who wins? Do consumers win because we have competition? Or do we lose because we need two players or a more expensive dual player to play 100% of the next gen HD dvd movies?


RE: Hah
By TomZ on 11/9/2007 5:24:26 PM , Rating: 2
We need competition in terms of players and content - there is little/no benefit in having competition between different formats. All that does is fragment and confuse the market.

Dual-format players are a very bad outcome because it drives up the unit cost and complexity.


RE: Hah
By sidhu663 on 11/9/07, Rating: 0
RE: Hah
By mcnabney on 11/9/2007 8:48:14 PM , Rating: 1
Are you insane? Having two formats is the only reason you can get any HD player for $100-200. If there was still only one format you can believe it would be sold inline with Sony's existing BD player pricing.


RE: Hah
By TomZ on 11/11/2007 12:45:03 PM , Rating: 2
1. When DVD came out, there was no competing format, and DVD came to widespread acceptance with very cost-effective players and media.

2. If there was just a single HD format, Sony couldn't get away with charging $500 for a player today, since others like Toshiba would be out with cheaper competitive players. That is, assuming Sony didn't effectively control the technology and licensing as they do with Blu-ray.


RE: Hah
By sxr7171 on 11/11/2007 1:49:47 AM , Rating: 3
Ask the people who picked up $100 players this past week.


RE: Hah
By Locutus465 on 11/9/2007 5:29:06 PM , Rating: 2
And now much like the USA (my country) and Iraq, Sony is stuck... They can't just walk away and screw all their backers, and starting to develop dual format players of their own would be about as good as walking away... They have no choice but to continue this fight and hope for the best.... Personally I'm hoping they lose as I think HD-DVD is the better product (and I did put my money where my mouth is and don't regret it).

At the very least the PS3/BD wars are teaching Sony some much needed humility... It is quite clear that in the era before the flop Sony was completely convinced that all you had to do was put sony (and espeacially playstation) on a peice of electronics and it would turn to gold... Now they realize that even Sony must obay the realities of the open market.


RE: Hah
By TheFro on 11/9/2007 6:11:12 PM , Rating: 5
You would think Sony would've learned some humility after BetaMax, ATRAC, MiniDisc, MemoryStick, UMD, SDDS, and the Rootkits fiasco too...


RE: Hah
By BansheeX on 11/9/2007 7:54:50 PM , Rating: 2
Indeed, all of those were stupid because Sony was the sole developer.

UMD=Sony
MiniDisc=Sony
BetaMax=Sony

However, in Blu-Ray's case, Sony is not the sole developer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_Associat...

Sony's decision to split off was that they didn't want to miss out on the royalties that they did with DVD. They're a company trying to make money, just like Toshiba. Just read some more on the history of both formats. It's more complicated than forum posts make it sound. While the BRDA founders were trying to push for a blu-laser format, everyone else initially wanted to keep using red lasers. Then they changed their minds and went blu-laser, but not the same blue-laser wavelength that BRDA founders had been pushing for. Weird, huh? Can you imagine how BRDA founders got a tad pissed? "Oh, so you finally agree with us about blue-lasers, but you still want to do your own thing. Fine, fuck you."

The DVD Forum (which was chaired by Toshiba) was deeply split over whether to go with the more expensive blue lasers or not. In March 2002, the forum voted to approve a proposal endorsed by Warner Bros. and other motion picture studios that involved compressing HD content onto dual-layer DVD-9 discs.[10][11] However, in spite of this decision, the DVD Forum's Steering Committee announced in April that it was pursuing its own blue-laser high-definition solution.


RE: Hah
By Locutus465 on 11/10/2007 12:45:43 AM , Rating: 2
All of what you say is true... Unfortunetly for BD group the solution they came up with, while technologically sound is rather expensive to manufacture which is a problem... Particularly since HD-DVD is using nearly the same technology, yet some how are managing to consitantly undercut the compitition, and it really doesn't look like this is going to change quickly enough for BD... I *really* wish Sony had been humbled earlier on so we wouldn't have this format war... But unfortunetly we do... And I hope that HD-DVD wins it.


RE: Hah
By BansheeX on 11/10/2007 7:27:54 PM , Rating: 2
So? Anything with blu lasers is far more expensive to manufacture than a red laser solution would have been at the time. By that rationale, we should have gone with HD on two DVD-9 discs. It would have been the cheapest solution for the same quality. Response?


RE: Hah
By Locutus465 on 11/11/2007 12:28:43 AM , Rating: 2
You act as if because the word "blue" doesn't appear in HD-DVD that it isn't using a blue laser... You are mistaken, HD-DVD uses a blue diode, same as bluray... Yet for some reason HD-DVD camp manages to consistantly under cut BD... Additionally because the HD-DVD spec was actually finished when the opening salvos of the war were fired, you end up with a much more consitant product. Bluray and HD-DVD aren't actually all that different, it just seems like HD-DVD was easier to get to lower price points, which is what is needed in order for something to become the new dvd standard... 20GB buys you almost zero in the HDM market, $99 players buys you a whole heck of a lot. Those are the marketing realities... I'm sorry this doesn't sit well with BD camp.


RE: Hah
By BansheeX on 11/11/2007 3:28:13 AM , Rating: 3
You've completely misread my post. HD stands for High Definition (video), I'm not using it as shorthand for HD-DVD. I am well aware that both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray use blue-lasers as opposed to red lasers. HD-DVD is less expensive to manufacture than Blue-Ray because the numerical arperture in the lens is shorter on blue-ray and more difficult to produce INITIALLY (remember this, there is not a permanent difficulty associated with any tech, it all gets easier and less expensive to produce over time). My point, that you missed, is that HD-DVD is still more expensive than a double DVD-9 solution for HD movies, so if what you really care about is short term expense and fast adoption, why do you support ANY blue-laser technology when they are BOTH more initially expensive than red-laser DVD?


RE: Hah
By elgoliath on 11/14/2007 5:31:41 PM , Rating: 2
I think you are confusing two different things. Consumers do want cheap, yes, but they also want convenience, usability, and a host of other items, none of which you get with using the old disks. I think the point you are missing is that HD-DVD and BD are the ones competing, not DVD. In the consumer point of view, both HD-DVD and BD do the same thing and give them the same features. In that case, then yes, the cheaper solution will win (HD-DVD at this time). To consumers, price IS everything, but only to a reasonable point, which your DVD-9 example surpasses imo.


RE: Hah
By sprockkets on 11/9/2007 9:43:29 PM , Rating: 2
Beta is still used professionally in Sony's camcorders
Same for DAT and MiniDisc, though today it probably is easier not to use it for short recording takes.

SDDS was always used for theaters and not for home use, and was a 7+ channel format long before DD or anyone else had a competing solution.

But there is no Sony walkman for today's age, the new generic term for a portable music player is the ipod. Unless Sony's music and movie segments are spun off, people will always associate Sony with DRM, and no one supports that.


too bad, SONY
By muhahaaha on 11/9/2007 4:40:13 PM , Rating: 2
Rumor has it that Blu-Ray has started losing ground big time ever since the $100 special on the Toshiba players last weekend.

It comes down to price for most consumers, and Blu-Ray isn't much different than HD-DVD, but the later is now MUCH cheaper to own. I know I will soon own a HD-DVD player at that price point.




RE: too bad, SONY
By Locutus465 on 11/9/2007 5:31:39 PM , Rating: 3
Rumor? Toshiba moved 90,000 players in 3 days gaining 25% market share in a weekend...


RE: too bad, SONY
By bplewis24 on 11/9/2007 5:51:24 PM , Rating: 1
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/11/09/nielsen-video...

You shouldn't put too much stock in rumors.

lol @ 25% market share.

Brandon


RE: too bad, SONY
By SavagePotato on 11/9/2007 6:23:48 PM , Rating: 2
Lost 25% market share it would seem. Well maybe not that much but thats funny.

Sony is no doubt right, companies that are using HD aren't likely to stop and companies that are using Blu Ray aren't likely to stop. At least not soon enough to do something before dual format players invalidate any kind of progress either side may have.

Once the dual format players drop to the couple hundred dollar mark, chances are people will stop caring about either side and just get one of those. For the various early adopters building a blu ray, or a HD dvd library chances are neither are going to be left out in the dark like the oposing side predicts even if there was some sudden disapearance of either format, the ability to just pop in a dual format player and play them all will override that.

Chances are it could be the war that ends with a fizzle rather than with a bang.


RE: too bad, SONY
By DesertCat on 11/9/2007 7:26:24 PM , Rating: 4
From the article you link

quote:
HD DVD's highly successful sale of the HD-A2 was too late in the week to impact the results


With the A2 sale and people buying a movie or two to go along with their new players, the numbers will probably be much different in the next release.


RE: too bad, SONY
By Schadenfroh on 11/9/07, Rating: -1
RE: too bad, SONY
By rdeegvainl on 11/10/2007 9:26:20 AM , Rating: 1
ZOMGROFLMAOWTFBBQ......
You know this because you hate everything that Sony may have contributed to. Wow that is good for a laugh. Thank you.


RE: too bad, SONY
By Schadenfroh on 11/10/2007 11:39:48 AM , Rating: 2
Indeed, and may also includes has (which is the case with bluray).


RE: too bad, SONY
By Schadenfroh on 11/10/2007 12:04:21 PM , Rating: 2
(PS: check your sarcasm meter)


Less player investment risk for Blu-Ray
By timmiser on 11/9/2007 6:14:16 PM , Rating: 2
One issue that the BluRay has going for it is when it comes to the risk of the consumer investing early in one format or another. If a consumer enters the HD arena with a PS3 and they don't mind playing games from time to time, they can know that even if blu-ray becomes obsolete, they'll still have themselves a game console where they will at least be able to continue to play games and get some return on their initial investment.