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Sony Electronic CEO sees Blu-ray Disc players at $200 by 2009

With Blu-ray Disc the clear victor in the high-definition format war, there are two possible directions for hardware pricing. Those previously on the fence will regain confidence in the future of high-definition movies and will purchase more players, causing prices to fall from economies of scale. The other angle is that hardware prices will remain status quo due to the fall of HD DVD.

Thankfully for consumers, it appears that at the biggest Blu-ray Disc backer of all plans to make hardware more affordable as time goes on. Gizmodo quoted Sony Electronics CEO Stan Glasgow on the continual price drops of hardware at around $100 a year.

“I don't think $200 is going to happen this year. Next year $200 could happen,” said Glasgow. “We'll be at a $300 rate this year. $299 will happen this year.”

Should a $299 Blu-ray Disc player materialize, it could be the first time that standalone hardware would be cheaper than a PlayStation 3 – unless, of course, there are to be further price drops on the Sony console.

The falling prices won’t come from cheaper Chinese brands, however, as Glasgow made it clear that the Blu-ray Disc Association has yet to license any of the technology outside the larger electronics companies.

Sony recently announced its first Blu-ray Disc Profile 2.0 players, the BDP-S350 and the BDP-550 at about $400 and $500, respectively.

Other tidbits releases by Glasgow include Sony’s drop of Memory Stick slots on its televisions, perhaps as another sign the format’s under-acceptance. High-end televisions, though, sold well – with half of them 1080p sets.

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By InternetGeek on 3/6/2008 5:38:58 PM , Rating: 2
Taking this article at face value, if you want to buy a sub $100 BR player you'll have to wait until around 2011.

I wonder if they are planning to release a better HD format by then? I waited 6 years to get a DVD and it was only on my PC. Two years after that it's when I first got a DVD player for the house. This was 3 years ago and it was an under $50 player.

I own 4 movies and the rest I just rent and rip if I want to keep it for a while.

RE: So
By rninneman on 3/6/2008 6:07:17 PM , Rating: 3
No, he said $299 will happen this year and prices will drop $100/yr.

2008 - $299
2009 - $199
2010 - $99

Btw, way to go admitting you pirate movies.

RE: So
By aLeoN on 3/6/2008 9:01:22 PM , Rating: 5
W00T! Continuing this trend:

2011 - $0
2012 - World blows up from negatively priced BR players.

That's how it ends, folks.

RE: So
By carl0ski on 3/7/2008 1:43:04 AM , Rating: 5
W00T! Continuing this trend: 2011 - $0 2012 - World blows up from negatively priced BR players. That's how it ends, folks.

Don't you mean negative in 2011?

Last time i checked with my calculator
$99 - $100 = -$1

RE: So
By Samus on 3/7/2008 2:01:52 AM , Rating: 5
Doc Brown was wrong all along. It's the negatively priced BD player that rips a hole in the space-time continueum.

RE: So
By therealnickdanger on 3/7/2008 7:58:16 AM , Rating: 3
Unless we could somehow... HARRRRRNESSS the power of Blu-Ray, we could channel it into the Flux Capacitor, thus saving the world from certain destruction!

RE: So
By adiposity on 3/7/2008 12:14:36 PM , Rating: 1
Through 2009...afterwards it could slow down as the minimum overhead + profit may be hard to lower.

2008 - $299
2009 - $199
2010 - $150
2011 - $125

RE: So
By joex444 on 3/6/2008 6:23:36 PM , Rating: 3
You could get a BD-ROM for $130 today from Newegg...

RE: So
By Spuke on 3/6/2008 6:28:00 PM , Rating: 3
You could get a BD-ROM for $130 today from Newegg...
And then add another $400 to get it play on your HDTV.

RE: So
By BrownJohn on 3/6/2008 7:01:39 PM , Rating: 2
yes, but if you already have a HTPC, then there are no additional monetary costs, are there?

RE: So
By Spuke on 3/6/2008 7:18:03 PM , Rating: 2
yes, but if you already have a HTPC, then there are no additional monetary costs, are there?
And just how many people have HTPC's again? I'm willing to bet there's more people with HD DVD and Bluray players.

RE: So
By lhlinlhlin on 3/6/2008 8:28:28 PM , Rating: 2
yes, but if you already have a HTPC, then there are no additional monetary costs, are there?

You must make sure the CPU and the GPU of your HTPC is powerful enough to decode the H.264 and also handle the BD-J application in parallel. Most importantly the graphic card must also have an HDMI interface to hook up to your TV/Monitor with HDMI input, or you will be ended up to watch a Standard Definition Blu-Ray movie.

RE: So
By ncage on 3/6/2008 10:48:42 PM , Rating: 2
This is TOTALLY wrong. You do NOT have to have an hdmi interface on your computer....a simple DVI-HDMI cable will take care of everything. DVI is HDMI - Sound.

RE: So
By Pneumothorax on 3/7/2008 12:44:46 AM , Rating: 2
I think what he meant was HDMI WITH HDCP. Many video cards older than a year old didn't have a proper implementation of HDCP so if the BD-ROM is flagged for this it'll only display DVD quality on a non HDCP interface.

RE: So
By Alpha4 on 3/10/2008 7:32:55 PM , Rating: 2
I was of the impression that HDCP compliance wasn't enforced with any media yet. I vaguely recall reading that 2010 is when we'll start seeing HDCP-locked content. Maybe this has something to do with the Rev.2.0 BR players that are circulating now?

With that in mind the $130 BD-Rom is a significant value because by 2010 an (a?) HDCP enabled Video Card will be dirt cheap.

RE: So
By AlphaVirus on 3/7/2008 10:21:48 AM , Rating: 2
Or you could just purchase a graphics card and the appropirate cable to connect your PC to your HDTV. There are graphics cards with HDMI, DVI, VGA, S-Video, and sometimes even component out, so you have options.

All of this can cost between $100-150.

RE: So
By bfellow on 3/7/2008 12:19:05 PM , Rating: 1
Umm S-Video max resolution is 480i and component cables max is 1080i. Neither is fullHD.

Alot of the graphics cards that say HDCP Ready means they aren't HDCP compliant. Just because it comes with DVI also doesn't mean its HDCP compliant. So be warned!

RE: So
By Farfignewton on 3/6/2008 8:14:18 PM , Rating: 4
Two years after that it's when I first got a DVD player for the house. This was 3 years ago and it was an under $50 player.

I own 4 movies and the rest I just rent and rip if I want to keep it for a while.

So you've spent about $130 on hardware and software purchases for DVD in only 3 years? And blu-ray hasn't made much effort to get into your wallet? The fools.

RE: So
By therealnickdanger on 3/7/2008 7:59:51 AM , Rating: 2
Ha! Classic.

RE: So
By Moishe on 3/7/2008 7:41:53 AM , Rating: 5
Here is what I'm seeing that sucks....

Blu-Ray finally gets around to releasing the cool java features (BRD2.0) and starts those at a higher price. Sony says no price competition and no quick price drops.

So in the holiday season of 09 will we see el-cheapo $199 Blu-Ray machines or the good ones with BRD2.0? Cuz frankly this kinda of stuff just sucks. I'm not paying $30 for a movie, and I'm not paying $200 for a half-atz machine. They need to release all new hardware as BRD2.0 and lower the disc prices. I was planning on upgrading my projector to something 1080p and at this rate it looks like I may be able to wait a little and plan on spending some on the BR player as well.

RE: So
By Mitch101 on 3/7/2008 10:03:25 AM , Rating: 3
I Stopped buying DVD's a while back because the HD ones were coming.

Didn't buy HD-DVD or BLU-RAY because of the format war and the problem of being split between my fav movies I would want to own in HD.

Probable reasons why I wont buy the HD versions.
2-Wont look much better than the original I already own or wont be significantly worthy of HD (Typically drama stuff)
3-It already showing on some channel at 3am in High Def which doesn't matter since I own a HD-DVR. Beep Record wait a few days. Just like waiting for it from Netflix.
4-I personally think there are only about 20-25 movies I believe have true replay value.
5-Chicks aren't impressed by your movie collection they most likely think you waste your money on mediocre movies. They will never understand the fifth element despite its probably the only love movie a guy can watch.

I got a DTV HD-DVR HR21 (Free with 1 year Free HD service - just keep complaining until they give it to you for Free).

So I can either PPV and watch the movie in HD just as fast as or wait till its on Showtime. Since there are 6 HD movies already in the DVR I haven't had time to watch whats the hurry.

I find most movies don't have any replay value so why own them? With a DVR you just search for it and its usually playing on some channel. Hit record.

Yes I know BR offers superior sound and possibly picture quality over Direct TV's HD but my sound system sounds awesome and looks incredible. (THX Select 2 with Boston Acoustics speakers) before someone claims I have a Radio Shack sound system.

Big Screen is required
I like going to the movies because they have a much bigger screen than my HDTV. I only go for blockbuster movies. If its not blockbuster I wait till its on showtime. A movie like Lord of the rings looks great on your HDTV but it looks friggen awesome on a giant screen especially during an epic batter. HDTV is pretty but Big is Immersive.

If anything the format war weened me off buying movies I will watch maybe once. No more impulse buys (Purple Rain, Showgirls, Flashdance)

It renewed my interest in going to the movie theater.

I will buy the BR player when its sub $100 and the movies when they are on the bargain shelf. No rush.

RE: So
By mmcdonalataocdotgov on 3/7/2008 11:45:06 AM , Rating: 2
By that time, who is going to use this kind of media anyway? It will all be digital - downloads, HD storage, etc.

RE: So
By Staples on 3/7/2008 2:09:13 PM , Rating: 2
Since 1080p will probably be the standard for the next 10+ years, I think Blu Ray will also last longer than DVDs did. I would not be surprised if 1080p was the standard for the next 20 years. I can see a higher capacity format coming out but without any real reason to upgrade, it will never catch any traction. Blu Ray will be around for a long time.

RE: So
By Master Kenobi on 3/7/2008 3:22:25 PM , Rating: 2
1080p has already been replaced in many recording sectors by higher resolutions. With the introduction of OLED and possibly Laser TV's, the prospect of bumping up the resolution is quite probable.

RE: So
By timmiser on 3/7/2008 4:52:23 PM , Rating: 3
So why are you even here?

That's like going to a knitting forum and commenting on how much you don't knit and then complain that yarn is just way too expensive.

When have people become so cheap?
By KnightBreed on 3/6/2008 9:52:54 PM , Rating: 3
People will spend $1K on their fancy HDTV's, but refuse to buy a Blu-ray player until their <$100 at Wal-mart.

RE: When have people become so cheap?
By bgm063 on 3/7/2008 2:23:24 AM , Rating: 4
Thank You.

It seems like I hear one gripe after another. Don't get me wrong. Some of the gripes I think are justified, but let's be real... these price drops that everybody is waiting for is going to happen. Just not now.

If it's not Blu-ray players, it's the PS3. If it's not the PS3, it's something else. I'll admit it. I wouldn't mind seeing cheaper prices for HD movies, but hey... if I can't find it cheap through some online store, I'll just have to wait it out. Technology gets cheaper with age and improvements (unlike music CDs). I just think all the anti-Sony comments could just chill out a bit.

By dever on 3/7/2008 3:08:46 PM , Rating: 2
Also, even if Sony thought they were going to drop $200 this year, they certainly wouldn't advertise this fact. Then many people would wait for this price drop before purchasing.

The fact that they are admitting to $100 drop before the end of the year is promising.

I bet someone has a $199 stand-alone player before Christmas.

By Moishe on 3/7/2008 8:04:00 AM , Rating: 2
You've got a very valid point. People who can spend the money on a TV like that ought to realize the value in the player as well.

Personally I've got no problem spending $200-300 on a quality BR player that will last a few years and has the latest features. I do have a problem spending more than $100 on some cheap BR player that doesn't have the 2.0 features. For me, < $100 is the magic number where I feel I can buy an electronic device and throw it away in a year (if I have to). Anything above $100 and I will require more research.

I think a lot of the gripe now is that BR as "won" and the prices are all so high. They want us consumers to buy into it, but the entry fee is too high for most. Most of the people I know would need the TV, the player, and the media to get into HD and most people I know would not see the value in that kind of expense. I can't blame them. HD movies are very nice on a great system, but on an average setup Hd is just slightly better.

By BMFPitt on 3/7/2008 8:48:52 AM , Rating: 2
People will spend $1K on their fancy HDTV's, but refuse to buy a Blu-ray player until their <$100 at Wal-mart.
Well the difference between a 27" tube TV and a 50" DLP is quite apparent. There's certainly a difference from DVD to BD, but not nearly that obvious and dramatic. Your TV can be used for TV, movies, gaming. Your BD player can be used for playing movies only, and at that only helps with a subset of anyone's collection.

By Schadenfroh on 3/7/2008 8:54:28 AM , Rating: 2
They buy their $1500+ Panasonic Plasma HDTVs and plug it into their analog (not digital, not HD, but SD analog) cable and stretch it out to fill the entire screen.

(story my grandparents, fortunately I convinced them after a few months to "try" Comcast HD Cable just for a little while and they finally realized what they were missing and payed the money for HD)

By SavagePotato on 3/7/2008 9:15:21 AM , Rating: 1
Around here some people pay $100 a month for the highest speed Internet packages, or over $200 a month by the time it's said and done for that and TV as well.

I spent more like $4000 on my tv so $500 ish at the time for a ps3 to actually enjoy it didn't seem all that bad.

There sure as hell isn't near enough HDTV and I won't watch SD stretch o vision at all. I'm simply not going to waste my time watching pixelated distorted crap. If it wasn't for blu ray and the few American hd networks we have access to here in Canada I would feel very sorry for buying a 1080p tv.

RE: When have people become so cheap?
By 777 on 3/7/2008 7:38:17 PM , Rating: 1
People will spend $1K on their fancy HDTV's, but refuse to buy a Blu-ray player until their <$100 at Wal-mart.

Excellent point for the whiners! $300.00 is nothing to spend on a quality Blu ray player. Let's go back all the way to 1986 when pile of Sh__ VHS was catching on, you had to spend $300.00 just to buy that pile of Shi_ VHS player and buying movies wasn't cheap either. To buy a crappy VHS back then was like $29.99, and this is 1986 dollars over 20 years ago. Prices will come down as everything gets mass produced and sold. Get over the high prices.

Price argument
By AlphaVirus on 3/6/2008 5:27:27 PM , Rating: 2
I went to WalMart 2 days ago and checked out their Blu section and of course the HDDVD section was inches away. I compared prices and strangely the prices were very identical.
I thought with Blu being the winner that Red would have all of the prices drop across the board. Maybe that WalMart didnt get the memo, or are all WalMarts holding similar pricing?

Oh and the average price, for all movies, was between $30-35 for both Blu and HDDVD titles.

RE: Price argument
By Aikouka on 3/6/2008 5:33:06 PM , Rating: 2
I usually see between $20-$30 for the HD movies, but I've also been a bit disappointed at how Wal-Mart hasn't tried to push their HD-DVD inventory out. I've been looking to pick up some super cheap HD-DVDs ;).

RE: Price argument
By mikecel79 on 3/6/2008 6:52:40 PM , Rating: 2
Amazon is starting to drop the prices on their HD DVDs. I just picked up Bourne Identity for $15 and Bourne Ultimatum $20.

RE: Price argument
By BMFPitt on 3/7/2008 8:41:51 AM , Rating: 2
You could have picked up the 3-pack for $30...

RE: Price argument
By mikecel79 on 3/7/2008 10:55:04 AM , Rating: 2
On Amazon? I found the DVD trilogy for $30 but not the HD DVD. Besides I had the 1st movie already. The movies are even cheaper today!

RE: Price argument
By timmiser on 3/7/2008 4:59:36 PM , Rating: 2
lol, Only $100?
By rsasp on 3/6/2008 6:54:08 PM , Rating: 2
Only $100, no thanks. I'll stick with DVD

RE: lol, Only $100?
By jlips6 on 3/6/2008 7:21:31 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly my thoughts. and when everybody starts to throw out their dvd players, I'll be there smiling as a steal all the "useless" red-laser diodes out of all of them. Then only 5 more years until I can get free blue laser diodes from blu-rays.

RE: lol, Only $100?
By HotdogIT on 3/7/2008 6:09:29 AM , Rating: 2
Do you even own an HDTV worth using a BR/HDM player on, if you think 100 bucks is a lot of money?

At some point, you may just not be the target audience.

RE: lol, Only $100?
By jlips6 on 3/8/2008 5:44:36 PM , Rating: 2
I live in a trailer, and my tv is made of old lightbulbs, a micro-wave and 3 cats i found on the road. I'm not sure what audience I'm part of.

By whickywhickyjim on 3/6/2008 7:31:29 PM , Rating: 3
If Sony's past behavior is any indicator of how they will act in the future, the "price cuts" will probably only be for the junky sub-2.0 spec models. Although I'd probably prefer to have one of those anyway, even if the bd+ spec is incomplete -- they don't have the phoning-home internet connection Sony will undoubtedly use to rootkit me with.

RE: pass
By BansheeX on 3/7/2008 9:32:41 AM , Rating: 4
Non-2.0 is "junky?" Why? Because you can't use a feature no one was calling for with DVD, PiP on bonus commentary tracks, on the few discs that actually use it? "Oh MAN! What a piece of junk!" Tell you what, I'll buy your junk from you for $5 after your certain disappointment with it.

By AlabamaMan on 3/6/2008 11:32:18 PM , Rating: 3
Could anyone remind me why 20% bump in VHS-to-DVD resolution was OMFGAMAZING while a 300% DVD-to-BR resolution increase is barely worth mentioning? Esp. among the people who were sining the praises of HD-DVD a few months ago, only to retreat to "who needs HD anyway" position in the last several weeks?

RE: Huh.
By BMFPitt on 3/7/2008 8:52:00 AM , Rating: 2
Because the rest of us can do math, and also understand the numerous benefits gained from VHS to DVD other than resolution.

RE: Huh.
By wallijonn on 3/7/2008 10:08:02 AM , Rating: 2
Could anyone remind me why 20% bump in VHS-to-DVD resolution was OMFGAMAZING while a 300% DVD-to-BR resolution increase is barely worth mentioning? Esp. among the people who were sining the praises of HD-DVD a few months ago, only to retreat to "who needs HD anyway" position in the last several weeks?

Because when VHS was king everyone had CRTs. Then came DVDs, which looked amazing on the same CRTs. Very few people would bother playing HDM on an SD CRT because it will only look slightly better. But if one has HDTV, then it looks almost twice as good. (On plasma, anyway. LCD, ymmv.)

Many more HDTVs will need to sold before everyone sees a need to go HDM. Until then up converting players (as opposed to the HDTV doing the up converting) will be the way to go. As always, it is the quality of the media which will dictate whether or not one sees a need to upgrade. ("Star Wars," Episode 3 is a well mastered SD DVD, for example.)

The down grade of SD DVDs has already started - putting 2, 3 or 4 movies on a single dual layered or double sided disc (dual layered double sided discs are rare) or putting an over 2 hour movie on a single sided single layer disc. Then throw in 20 minutes of trailers (Disney), bloopers, alternate endings, 1 to 4 commentaries, 3 to 10 languages, artwork, 2.0 & 5.1 audio, DTS and DD, etc., and the SD DVD's days are numbered.

I wouldn't even buy one at £49
By Gastrian on 3/6/2008 7:27:43 PM , Rating: 5
That also applies to HD-DVD players. Its not the cost of the player thats putting me off its the cost of the media. £20-30 for a movie is too much, especially when I can buy the equivalent DVD for half the price. Heck I could buy the Blade Runner Ultimate DVD boxset for less than the Blu-Ray or HD-DVD standalone movie (they never released the 5 movie edition on HD over here).

I don't mind spending £300 on a player if the discs were only about £5 more than the equivalent DVDs but the 100% premium for an improved image is not worth it because at the end of the day its only a movie.

How many of you complainers actually own an HDTV?
By cvmaas on 3/7/2008 3:55:24 AM , Rating: 3
This is insane, sitting here reading post after post of people complaining they want a BR player for under $100, acting like they deserve it. Like Blu-ray and HD is a government subsidy and they can collect on it when they pick up their food stamps.

Last I checked, even the cheapo HDTV's at Wallyworld (Walmart), are still going for over $5-600, so how can one could afford that and much more for a actual good HDTV, but cant afford a $400 BR player is beyond me!

Seriously, my parents are not the tech-junkies like I am, but they now have 2 HDTV's, spent about 3k for the two of them, and not once did they say BR was too expensive of a player after the money spent on the TV to actually watch them!

Would anyone even consider an upconverting DVD player, none the less a BR player when all they have is a cheap 27 inch SDTV? Wait until next year, when analog is shut off, and everyone runs out to buy an HDTV cuz they know nothing about the digital converters, and I guarantee BR player sales will skyrocket as these consumers look to get the most out of their purchase.

By timmiser on 3/7/2008 5:13:05 PM , Rating: 2
Complaining about the price of BR players is really just a consequence of BR winning the format war. HD-DVD was already down to $99 during the holiday season last year and was on track to be permanently under $99 at sometime this year.

Mainstream America didn't get into DVD full time until the players went under $100 and that will probably be the same for HD players. We were months away from that milestone with HD-DVD but now we are years away from that price point with BR being victorious.

5-10 years ago, people were spending $500-$2500 for standard def TV's and only paying $40 for a DVD player. The TV's today, even though they are the same price as 5 years ago, the media players are 10x more.

Granted 5 years ago you could get a small cheap 19"-24" SDTV for $200 which HDTV can't complete with today but for the equivelant screen size of over 40", the TV prices haven't changed.

Whine and cry some more...
By TerranMagistrate on 3/6/2008 9:17:31 PM , Rating: 2
That's what you people are good for.

But please, try and realize that this is the norm for any new format. Look back at the early years of the DVD format, the sub-$200 hardware didn't start appearing until roughly after 2001.

RE: Whine and cry some more...
By BMFPitt on 3/7/2008 8:53:31 AM , Rating: 2
I'm pretty sure I had a $100 player in 2001 (aside from the $130 DVD -ROM I got in 1998.)

By billybob24 on 3/6/2008 10:47:41 PM , Rating: 2
I cant believe $ony Yam actually turned this into a positive headline. On another forum where this was posted, it's obvious negative tone (No $200 Blu Ray this year, says $ony) was correctly emphasized.

I suppose monopolistic Sony is artificially keeping the Blu Ray price high so as not to undercut the PS3, something they have done all along. Or should I say $ony?

Anyways, with the explosion of digital downloads, a area $ony doesn't exist in, these high prices will continue to keep Blu Ray from being widely adopted I expect. It certainly isn't very attractive to me, a marginal improvement over DVD certainly isn't worth even $300, especially in these tough economic times (although, it is a nice bonus if you were already buying a PS3, but millions of families dont buy videogames). Looks like digital downloads will use this time of overpriced Blu Ray to establish themselves further.

I always said, when Blu Ray "won" the real winner was DVD (and digital downloads, now), because Blu Ray is so expensive, it will delay or curtail adoption. Hi-def was more mainstream when you had plentiful 199 HDDVD players.

By bgm063 on 3/7/2008 2:56:55 AM , Rating: 2
the explosion of digital downloads

I'm not so sure about that. Alot of people like having a disc and having a disc they can backup. And if the digital downloads are a PC-confined idea, I don't know how mainstream adoption will play out... especially when you still have folks out there who are computer illiterate.

By bond007taz on 3/6/2008 6:36:04 PM , Rating: 1
WTF Sony - so because you won the format war you are going to keep the profit up so you can make up for all your losses on the PS3? ok, then i wont buy a BD player! That is how I am going to voice my dissapproval!

RE: lame...
By MaestroQuark on 3/6/2008 6:43:14 PM , Rating: 2
"You're only expecting a 25% price cut the first year, and a 33% price cut the second year? How dare you!"

I'll be just fine...
By ikaika on 3/6/2008 6:51:05 PM , Rating: 2
....with my HD-DVD player for the next 2-3 years till the BRD players drop to the ~$150 or so range.

Bummer, was really hoping to get one sooner than that :(

What a !!!!!
By tubalcain on 3/6/2008 7:18:54 PM , Rating: 2
If a PC LiteON blu ray drive is about $145 then standalone players should be down significantly. They really need to license it to smaller Chinese companies if they want all the Wal Mart people to buy them. This is just another cartel like OPEC but for HD. A sad, sad day indeed for HD adoption.

By Roffles on 3/7/2008 12:20:49 AM , Rating: 2
It seems to me like a lot of people aren't being realistic about how much a stand-alone player should cost at this very point in time. Am I correct in saying that blu-ray players use new and expensive audio and video rendering hardware to make 1080p possible? Isn’t seperate upscaling hardware also required? Then you have ethernet ports, media card readers and whatever else. They are sort of like mini-PC’s. And wasn't Toshiba selling their HD-DVD players at a substantial loss in an attempt to win the format war?

Just buy a PS3 and that way you will have all the additional media and gaming capabilities in addition to it being a blu-ray player.

By gochichi on 3/8/2008 9:27:57 PM , Rating: 2
Sam's club had them, I thought it was really odd... in a good way.

It's interesting to see BR kind of pick up the pace. People are actually talking about Blu-ray... out in the world I mean. Blu-ray was quite prominent at Blockbuster all of a sudden. It was there before, but not as prominent. I think the video rental industry needs to fall in line sooner rather than later because if they give too much slack, people will just go for (admittedly inferior, but can regular people really tell?) HD downloads through XBOX 360 or iTunes TV and the like.

The fact that there are $150.00 BD-ROM for computers is a huge deal in the sense that a lot of people that would be open to alternatives already have the goods. Meaning the geekier crowd... the ones open to HD downloads and the like, in other words the people that aren't satisfied with DVD (which is not that many right now).

Anyhow it'll be interesting to see how the need for Bluray develops in the American psyche or how it doesn't.

I have an old 36" Sony HDTV that I absolutely love, but it only has a 1080i connection... component at that. Anyhow, I was able to hook a PS3 up to it via component at 1080i and watch Bluray movies through component. Some games played fine, and others were forcibly 720P and would not show up at all. Neither would regular DVD movies played through the PS3. It definitely sucks that the legal world is so uptight and unrealistic.

Let me explain that: A PS3 or other up converting DVD players would upconvert a bootleg DVD without any issue through component cable. However, they will not upconvert an original DVD through component based on some legal mumbo-jumbo. It is absolutely ridiculous that a pirated DVD will play and look great upconverted to 1080i on my SONY HDTV but original DVDs don't show up at all because they must be shown in 480P (when connected through component).

Obviously this promotes the new disks, and also promotes HDMI but what it promotes the most is "DVD backups". Anyhow, I just think it's amazing how the hacker community produces value added products at no cost. It's ironic really. Your pirate DVD will not only be much cheaper, but also play much better in more places. The other obvious area is MP3 files... download them for a real dollar and then have all kinds of limitations or rip your friend's CDs and get a better sounding, easier to use version for free.

I'm not a Piracy advocate, I check out DVDs at the library for free so I don't see the need. I am pointing out that once you enter Apple's world, or Sony's world, you need to pay and then pay and then pay some more... and then maybe, just maybe you'll be able to do the stuff that the hacker community could do since the 90's. I feel hostage, and it's not a good feeling.

It's the same with software. I have purchased 100% of my software for a few years and it is absolutely no better than bootleg and in many cases worse. Activation, call it in... the most extreme example is Mathematica software. You have to FAX IN a request to them to let you install the software on a different machine. IF they let you on the first request, it'll take days. It may take several requests... in which case it could take weeks. You could do that, or get it bootleg and use it when and where you need it.

All of this to say, that while currently I can play Bluray movies on a PS3 on my old and glorious 36" CRT HDTV (it is the best quality, I mean it would take over $1500 to outclass the rich color and deep blacks... if it can even be done). I wince at the thought that someday not too far from now, Sony will want to hold a gun to my head and have my player show a black screen on the newest movies. It's an option that they've kept open for themselves and it's really unfortunate.

Bluray disks will be decrypted and pirated just the same, it's just a nuisance for the legitimate customer.. .as so many things seem to be these days.

I'm glad to see a new format emerge, this means that libraries and rental places can start stocking Bluray with confidence now which is tremendously important. Renting a movie, even for the ridiculous $4.99 (which is robbery... c'mon!) is still more palatable than buying a mediocre or even inferior movie for $25 to $35.00 dollars.

There is a threshold for me and many others. Is watching this movie at home WAY cheaper than going to the movie theater? Sony has shown time and time again that they can make elegant formats, that are desirable, trendy and expensive. This time Sony won a huge format war for a change, and it is yet to be seen whether Sony can deliver on the requisite practicality of such a huge obligation.

It's clear that Sony will recover their investment in Bluray. What isn't clear is whether DVD will actually have a real successor or whether Sony will smoother the disk format.

If Sony had had a better, less greedy distribution system, UMD would be a HUGE format... are you kidding me? Tiny disks, near DVD quality? It's a great package. I'd watch a UMD on a PSP anyday compared to watching a movie on an iPod. But UMD movies for $30.00??? ARE YOU F-ING KIDDING ME? I'm telling you all, Bluray is good technology, I like the thing inherently. I like disks, I like physically going and renting stuff and even being able to hold a movie I purchase. But if anyone can screw it up, it's Sony. UMD should have been successful... those movies were "NEAR DVD quality" and they should have been "NEAR DVD price" instead of twice the price of DVDs... it's a simple concept really. Instead they were greedy and people are ripping DVDs to high hell (which is TERRIBLY inconvenient for the rest of us that just want to get the disks... legally, and at a reasonable price).

I definitely have a love/hate thing going with Sony. Do you?

For the anti-Piracy folks... it's high prices and restrictive practices that promote piracy and not the other way around. Truly.

In Other Words
By TomZ on 3/6/08, Rating: -1
RE: In Other Words
By TheWizardofOz on 3/6/2008 5:28:50 PM , Rating: 2
Samsung, Panasonic and Denon are already manufacturing BD Players. What are you talking about?

RE: In Other Words
By TomZ on 3/6/2008 5:30:14 PM , Rating: 4
From the article:

The falling prices won’t come from cheaper Chinese brands, however, as Glasgow made it clear that the Blu-ray Disc Association has yet to license any of the technology outside the larger electronics companies.

RE: In Other Words
By TheWizardofOz on 3/6/2008 5:44:50 PM , Rating: 3
Well isn't that always the case? I mean you don't expect to find $29.99 BRD-Players from S Q NY or PA R ASONIC do you?

Everytime a new media standard comes out, first it's going to be avaliable expensive and exclusive; then it'll be widely avaliable but still expensive, then big electronics companies will release ultra expensive recording (BDR) versions. And then they'll offer all in one Home Theater combos and only after that cheapass Chinese companies will release $29.99 players.

RE: In Other Words
By Spuke on 3/6/2008 6:25:02 PM , Rating: 4
And then they'll offer all in one Home Theater combos and only after that cheapass Chinese companies will release $29.99 players.
And after three to four years of farting around with pricing, I and the rest of the general public will finally decide buy one when it's cheap.

RE: In Other Words
By habibo on 3/6/08, Rating: 0
RE: In Other Words
By BansheeX on 3/6/08, Rating: -1
RE: In Other Words
By rninneman on 3/6/08, Rating: -1
RE: In Other Words
By Spuke on 3/6/08, Rating: 0
RE: In Other Words
By rninneman on 3/6/08, Rating: 0
RE: In Other Words
By BansheeX on 3/6/2008 8:04:18 PM , Rating: 3
I can't believe there are still Bluray fanboys gloating over the privilege to pay more money. Sounds like the Apple fanboys.

The only difference, being, of course, that Apple fans are scoffed at for thinking that their products are actually better when they're really not. Blu-ray, on the other hand, had a serious capacity advantage that will prove invaluable to its longevity, both as a movie and recordable format. Having to wait another year for HD-DVD player prices for 75% more capacity over a 15-year era IS MOTHER-FREAKING WORTH IT. I'm sorry you utterly lack the foresight or patience to agree.

RE: In Other Words
By Shark Tek on 3/6/2008 7:07:30 PM , Rating: 2
What the heck are you talking about?

Blu ray isn't a Sony only format/technnology.

Did you know what is the Blu Ray Disc Association ?

Did you know who are part of that?

RE: In Other Words
By masher2 on 3/6/2008 7:55:14 PM , Rating: 2
Sony spearheaded the creation of the BDA, chairs the board of directors, and has devoted much more money and energy to pushing the standard than any other member company.

Equating Sony to the BDA isn't correct...but its not extremely far off either.

RE: In Other Words
By cubby1223 on 3/6/2008 8:51:14 PM , Rating: 1
Sure, ignore the 13+ manufacturers other than Sony making Blu-ray products. I've read so many "I hate Sony" rants the past year, this ranks near the bottom. Good job.

RE: In Other Words
By werepossum on 3/6/2008 8:52:49 PM , Rating: 2
Neither side made any bones that the major push behind the new standards was to restore and maintain a high profit margin. Whichever side won, the cost of the technology would be kept high.

We don't even own an HD television, and have no plans to purchase one until one of our existing sets goes out. And we won't be purchasing any HD player until it is $100 or so, AND until the movies are $15 to $20 at Wal-Mart. Television and movies are just not that important to us. And I suspect we're not unique.

RE: In Other Words
By Freddo on 3/6/2008 9:17:15 PM , Rating: 2
Do you seriously belive that?

I mean, in that cause it's a freaking miracle according to you that the prices on DVDs are far less now than they were a decade ago, seeing how it was only one format.

A decade ago you had to spend $600+ for a DVD player, and today you can get one for only a few bucks in a local supermarket.

Most people are people who are currently satisfied with normal DVDs and/or people who won't pay much for HD movies. The Blu-ray sales are extremly small compared to the DVD sales. Now when there's only one format they dare to increase the production a bit, which will cause the price to go down, although now as quickly as we consumers would hope for, it's happening.

RE: In Other Words
By TomZ on 3/6/2008 10:21:37 PM , Rating: 4
The difference between then and now is that DVD had significant advantages over VHS - small size, no rewind, far superior picture quality, etc.

Now, the only difference between DVD and BD is that the picture and sound are higher quality - something that many people won't really value too much since DVD is go good already.

RE: In Other Words
By Magnus Dredd on 3/7/2008 7:51:07 AM , Rating: 2
Not true at all.

Blue Ray holds 10GB more per layer. In the lab, both HDDVD and BR topped out at 4 layers.

HDDVD seemed to be marketed as a read-only format, as I've only seen a single HDDVD recorder for sale anywhere and blank discs seemed to be missing in action.

For a long time Newegg and other places have had Blue Ray RECORDERS for sale.

I have yet to see a single HDDVD burner for my computer on Newegg. There are 5 Blue Ray burners for sale on newegg right now. (Pioneer (2), Lite-on, Philips, and Sony)

While some people don't care about the ability to make their own movies or use the discs for data, I'm far more interested in this than HDTV. So for me HDDVD was _without a doubt_ the worse format.

RE: In Other Words
By timmiser on 3/7/2008 6:09:06 PM , Rating: 2
Plus on top of what Tom has pointed out, one must also own an HDTV to play the HD format. A new updated TV was not required in the switch from VHS to DVD years ago.

RE: In Other Words
By AlexWade on 3/6/2008 10:57:41 PM , Rating: 2
I'd rather the BDA get all players to one profile from Day 1 like the now dead HD DVD did. Profile 1.0, 1.1, 2.0. I am not buying a standalone until I can get the FINAL profile cheap. My three complaints with Blu-Ray are (1) More DRM, which is never good; (2) Different profiles and the inability to make standalones meet the new profile; and (3) The BDA forces everyone to pay for 1080p, even the 75%+ of people who only have 1080i and 720p HDTV sets.

Truth be told, the only reason I have a HD DVD player is because I bought it for $100 at Wal-Mart. I really want a Blu-Ray player, always have. But I cannot afford one, not even a PS3. Give me a 1080i Profile 2.0 player for $100 to $150 and I'll buy it.

And don't give me that 1080p is so much better junk. My old 1080i set looks a lot better than many new 1080p sets on the market.

The sour grapes
By Chaser on 3/6/08, Rating: -1
RE: The sour grapes
By BenSkywalker on 3/6/2008 10:47:30 PM , Rating: 2
When did the first sub $100 Sony DVD player hit the market? It is rather dumbfounding how people as informed about electronics as the memebers on these boards are can think that Sony is going to be driving prices down faster then say, Goldstar. Sony is not in any way shape or form the only manufacturer of BRD players, and I can not think of any point in my lifetime where they have been considered a high value brand(given, I can only recall into the late 70s). One of the most overpriced electronics companies is planning on having relatively expensive options for a couple years on an emerging technology, whoever would have guessed it?

RE: The sour grapes
By mcnabney on 3/6/2008 11:18:27 PM , Rating: 2

Henry Ford thought that cars should be made and priced for the masses and not the high-priced, handmade things coming out of Europe.

Speedy price drop
By AlphaVirus on 3/6/08, Rating: -1
RE: Speedy price drop
By TomZ on 3/6/2008 5:33:50 PM , Rating: 5
What "speedy price drop"? Are you and I reading the same article?

BD players are $400 and up now, and the CEO is saying that they might get down to $300 for the holiday season. And keep in mind that HD-DVD players could be had late last year at the $100 level.

I don't see this as a speedy price drop - I think this is a statement that Sony plans to try to hold pricing in the higher ranges and only bring down pricing slowly.

RE: Speedy price drop
By masher2 on 3/6/08, Rating: 0
RE: Speedy price drop
By mcnabney on 3/6/2008 11:13:08 PM , Rating: 3
1080p is practically 2K (1920 is pretty close to 2000). I believe what you are really thinking about is 4K.

RE: Speedy price drop
By cubby1223 on 3/6/2008 8:56:32 PM , Rating: 3
They only dropped to $100 on a one-weekend old model clearance, when it was already painfully obvious Toshiba was trailing in the format war and _had_ to make a drastic attempt to close the sales gap.

I _never_ saw an HD DVD player for $100 after the Wal*Mart sale, did you?

RE: Speedy price drop
By Spuke on 3/6/2008 5:37:27 PM , Rating: 2
This sudden price dip should be great for this holiday season.
What we're concerned with now is HD replacing DVD. And $200 for a HD player isn't going to do it. It's cool that they're officially behind dropping prices but it will still be a few years before we see $100, at least officially. Oh well, so much for the $100 Black Friday Bluray player.

RE: Speedy price drop
By rninneman on 3/6/2008 6:12:39 PM , Rating: 2
While $200+ players won't take over DVD, it will encroach upon its market share. DVD sales have been flat for a couple years now and Blu-ray will continue to grow by leaps and bounds just as DVD did initially. So while Glasgow is predicting $199 players for Christmas 2009, Blu-ray will have a significant (not to be read majority) market share by then compared to the minuscule percentage now.

RE: Speedy price drop
By Spuke on 3/6/08, Rating: 0
RE: Speedy price drop
By rninneman on 3/6/08, Rating: 0
RE: Speedy price drop
By TomZ on 3/6/2008 6:58:52 PM , Rating: 1
I think a lot of people are in the same boat at Spuke, including myself. DVD looks great already, and unless you're into large sets and/or are something of a videophile, the small incremental picture quality increase with BD over DVD is not worth plunking down hundreds of dollars. At least that's how I feel, and I think a lot of others feel the same.

RE: Speedy price drop
By cubby1223 on 3/6/2008 10:09:05 PM , Rating: 2
If you're that much a penny pincher, then stick it out with dvd. Toshiba says they'll now be pushing dvd "super upconversion" that they claim will make dvds look indistinguishable from HD DVDs. You can hold out for that technology if you think Blu-ray is too expensive.

I, on the other hand, didn't feel like waiting for prices to fall, bought myself a player, and have been enjoying Blu goodness ever since. You'll just never understand until you buy a player, while hi-def is a small step up from dvd, at the same time dvd is a huge step down from hi-def.

RE: Speedy price drop
By TomZ on 3/6/2008 10:24:53 PM , Rating: 2
I'm mostly playing devil's advocate - trying to explain why BD's market share is going to be miniscule compared to DVD for a while to come. And really my point is that Sony is not doing themselves any favors in that regard by keeping player prices high.

I personally watch about 5 movies a year, so it's all a moot point for me.

RE: Speedy price drop
By rninneman on 3/6/2008 10:57:42 PM , Rating: 2
Remember, Sony is not the only manufacturer of players. They are competing with Panasonic, Pioneer, Samsung, Sharp, etc. If Blu-ray wasn't around, Toshiba wouldn't have had anyone to compete with and HD-DVD players would still be as much or more than Blu-ray players.

Your opinion does not represent the market Blu-ray is going for. You say you watch 5 movies a year. How can you claim to know what the average person who watches a couple a week think about buying into Blu-ray.

I won't make such assumptions and just look at the facts. And the fact is that Blu-ray is selling well and growing.

(I love how I keep getting rated down by what are most likely people who don't like hearing the truth and are still bitter about HD-DVD's loss.)

RE: Speedy price drop
By rninneman on 3/6/2008 10:51:10 PM , Rating: 2
There are also lots of people that do spend money for HD, whether it be TVs, cable/satellite service, or HD players. It is a logical fallacy to assert that just because you and your friends are penny-pinchers, that the rest of the market is the same way. The sales of players and movies indicates that people are taking to Blu-ray quite well. As I stated before, the manufacturers of players are are not keeping up with demand and PS3 sales have spiked since HD-DVD's death.

RE: Speedy price drop
By Spuke on 3/6/2008 7:11:19 PM , Rating: 2
Oh silly me. I didn't realize that Bluray had more marketshare than DVD. Oh wait, it doesn't. Compared to DVD sales, essentially no one has bought into Bluray.

300 Bluray sales - 250,000
300 DVD sales - 12.6 MILLION

Wow! Bluray is REALLY taking off!!

RE: Speedy price drop
By rninneman on 3/6/2008 10:42:37 PM , Rating: 2
It is taking off. It is selling much faster than DVD did at the same time since launch. Only a imbecile would argue that the definition of taking off is overtaking the incumbent technology in less than 2 years.

I didn't realize Blu-ray was already at roughly 2% of disc sales according to your numbers. That's better than I thought. No surprise though. You will see DVD sales remain generally flat (maybe even decline) like they have for the past couple years while Blu-ray will grow very quickly over the next few years. I bet Blu-ray will be deep into double digit percentages of marketshare within the next few years.

RE: Speedy price drop
By mcnabney on 3/6/2008 11:16:21 PM , Rating: 2
That actually isn't true. If you only compare raw sales numbers maybe, but the market for consumer media in general is 10x what it once was. BD, after 18 months can only pull 1-2% of the sales of new releases that are most desired by that community. In less FX-laden releases HD media isn't gaining 1% of the overall sales. DVD was taking about 5% of media sales after the first year.

RE: Speedy price drop
By rninneman on 3/7/2008 9:57:54 AM , Rating: 2
I know that overall the market share for BR is smaller. I was just pointing out that he wasn't helping his argument with those stats. BR has a much bigger pie to to eat into this time as you mentioned the market is more than 10x what VHS was in 1997. I cannot find exact numbers regarding DVD sales for 1997, but what I can find suggests something between 3-5%. DVD had the advantage of being a unified format that all manufacturers and studios supported. Now that Blu-ray is in that position, its sales are likely to increase in a similar manner. If HD-DVD stayed in, it would probably be SACD and DVD-Audio all over again.

RE: Speedy price drop
By sweetsauce on 3/6/2008 5:46:02 PM , Rating: 2
What article did you read? The one i read said it won't drop below $200 for 2 years. I want whatever this sony guy is smoking if he thinks they can gain market share on dvd with a player priced higher than $200.

RE: Speedy price drop
By geddarkstorm on 3/6/2008 8:52:59 PM , Rating: 2
Seriously. I just hope the other manufacturers drop prices a lot faster than Sony. Thankfully, Sony isn't the only BR hardware maker. They really have a funny notion of economics at Sony. Then again, it's also a question of how much it costs to make each player.

RE: Speedy price drop
By psychobriggsy on 3/7/2008 6:25:01 AM , Rating: 2
The dollar is worth a lot less than it was a decade ago. That's why you're not getting $100 players today or next year.

Also people forget inflation, and most people seem to forget actual facts, like history. It took 5 years for DVD to drop down to $100 players from the date of release.

I think that if you are serious about HD, you're not buying the cheapy TVs anyway, so are you really going to begrudge completing the HD setup?

I'd just get a PS3 myself, and cover next generation gaming needs as well.

RE: Speedy price drop
By AlphaVirus on 3/7/2008 10:39:19 AM , Rating: 1
Ok I think I should have further explained why I called this a speedy price drop.

Usually with new technology it usually starts at a much higher price point (DVD's, RW-CD's, etc) and they take years to drop in price. BDA has only been pushing for about 1.5 years now and are bringing prices down to $300.

I was not trying to say this is a 'holy grail' price but instead I was saying its great to see they are trying to drop the price as fast as possible for consumers.

As a side note I get tired of hearing people saying that Blu-Players are outrageous much did you spend on an HDTV? Having the 'top-notch' technology is going to set you back one way or another.

You cant buy a Dodge Viper and expect to spend $25 on maintenance, you cant buy a $3,000 stove and expect to cook nothing but ramen noodles, and you dont buy an HDTV with expectations of the format to be the same price as its predecessor.

And as a tech website I am sure most people that visit get irritated when they see someone with an HDTV watching SDTV shows. You might as well have bought the Camry if you are going to keep buying the cheap gas.

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