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AMD Shanghai hopes to erase bad memories of Barcelona

AMD has proven to be a tough opponent for Intel in the server processor marketplace. AMD said that its latest architecture dubbed Shanghai is now ready to go. Shanghai parts are quad-core processors that are targeted at the server market.

Shanghai is also AMD's first 45-nanometer processor. AMD's last big architecture aimed at the server marketplace was the Barcelona processor that ran into significant problems in the market. One of the biggest issues with Barcelona was that the processors were delayed for eight months after their introduction.

Once the processors were finally shipped and available, AMD had issues with the performance of the parts and the CPUs suffered from other glitches. AMD promises that Shanghai will not be another Barcelona.

Pat Patla, AMD server and workstation business general manager, told CNET News, "We had some mis-starts in getting Barcelona to market and wanted to bring as much velocity to Shanghai as possible. Learn from our mistakes and, as a company, never do that again."

To help ensure that Shanghai succeeds and offer users a better experience than Barcelona, AMD put one engineer in charge of the entire Shanghai project. Patla continued saying, "the product that we put in the hands of our partners is going to be of substantial stability so they can do lots of early validation."

To improve the performance of Shanghai over Barcelona, AMD is counting on several factors. First is the move from the 65nm process of Barcelona to the 45nm process used in Shanghai. This will allow for more efficiency and better performance than Barcelona.

AMD is also moving the cache memory from 2MB to 6MB to improve performance and it says that instructions per clock cycle will be increased as well. Shanghai will also utilize AMD's HyperTransport 3, which AMD expects to be validated in Q1 2009. A 45nm desktop Shanghai part will be offered in Q1 2009 according to CNET News.



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Just in time for Nehalem...
By therealnickdanger on 9/30/2008 12:11:14 PM , Rating: 4
AMD really has to be competetive with this launch - if not performance, then price.




RE: Just in time for Nehalem...
By DeepBlue1975 on 9/30/2008 12:24:41 PM , Rating: 3
I hope they get again in the performance arena.
I have an all Intel setup right now, but for my next platform I'd like to have a real choice if I care mostly about raw CPU performance, which I need as my most often utilization is converting videos between formats, sometimes several streams at a time.

Come on AMD, you did it once, you can pull it again.


RE: Just in time for Nehalem...
By amanojaku on 9/30/2008 1:05:37 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
which I need as my most often utilization is converting videos between formats, sometimes several streams at a time.


Damn pirates! Quit ripping DVDs!!! ;-) You do know that Shanghai is a server processor? A lot of people confuse their video encoding workstations with servers. Shanghai is socket F, so it won't work in an AM2 or AM3 socket.


RE: Just in time for Nehalem...
By ebakke on 9/30/2008 1:11:43 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
A 45nm desktop Shanghai part will be offered in Q1 2009 according to CNET News.


RE: Just in time for Nehalem...
By amanojaku on 9/30/2008 1:30:45 PM , Rating: 3
Shane got that wrong; the desktop processor is Deneb, not Shanghai. According to the CNET article posted in this article:

quote:
Shanghai will be followed by a 45-nanometer desktop processor code-named Deneb, which is due to launch in the fourth quarter of this year or first quarter of 2009, AMD said.


RE: Just in time for Nehalem...
By ebakke on 9/30/2008 3:24:15 PM , Rating: 2
:(


RE: Just in time for Nehalem...
By kkwst2 on 10/1/2008 12:26:33 AM , Rating: 2
Why the frown? You don't like the name? It's still a 45nm desktop part launching in early 09. I'm guessing it will be a similar architecture to Shanghai, though I haven't seen details.


RE: Just in time for Nehalem...
By Visual on 10/1/2008 5:13:42 AM , Rating: 2
exactly, still the 6mb cache too.
it is the same really, but in am2+

i wonder if we will see a new socket soon, tri-channel, ddr3, etc?
as things are now intel has a bandwidth advantage because of these factors...

why can't amd even one-up intel and give us a quad-channel version?
alternatively if they leave it dual-channel, revive the old dualsocket variants for use on the desktop.


RE: Just in time for Nehalem...
By rudolphna on 10/4/2008 10:15:24 AM , Rating: 2
because 4-6 memory slots is the most efficient, and it would probably be quite expensive to implement. Not to mention, you would need 4 matched DIMMs for quad channel


RE: Just in time for Nehalem...
By ebakke on 10/1/2008 9:01:16 AM , Rating: 2
Frown because I didn't read the article's linked article.


RE: Just in time for Nehalem...
By frobizzle on 10/2/2008 8:39:17 AM , Rating: 2
As Batman's nemesis would say, "Why so serious?"


RE: Just in time for Nehalem...
By afkrotch on 9/30/2008 3:26:00 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Damn pirates! Quit ripping DVDs!!! ;-) You do know that Shanghai is a server processor? A lot of people confuse their video encoding workstations with servers. Shanghai is socket F, so it won't work in an AM2 or AM3 socket.


Here's an idea. Servers and Desktop processors share the same architecture. It's amazing, but true. Just that the server variants tend to carry a little more baggage for multiple processor systems.

Also workstations tend to use server procs. Our Dell Precision 490 workstations (at work) use dual Xeons.


RE: Just in time for Nehalem...
By JasonMick (blog) on 9/30/2008 1:15:29 PM , Rating: 2
My sources at AMD indicate that Shanghai won't be competing much against Nehalem, but rather primarily Harpertown and Dunnington (Penryn gen 4/6 core processors). Take this as you will.

Unfortunately for AMD, these comments seem to indicate that the performance gap between Nehalem and Shanghai will be sizable. The initial benchmarks for Nehalem are formidable, to say the least.


RE: Just in time for Nehalem...
By Regs on 9/30/2008 2:21:19 PM , Rating: 1
As expected. I didn't have high hopes with it competition with NEHHHHHHHHALEM. Did they really say it was ready to "Rock"? It's not like AMD to bolster their own product. They're more like "well, ..., here it is". "Any questions? Sorry, can't answer that".


RE: Just in time for Nehalem...
By therealnickdanger on 9/30/2008 2:53:45 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
won't be competing much against Nehalem, but rather primarily Harpertown and Dunnington

That's definitely true - at least during the 3-month launch window. Nehalem appears to be quite a monster - if we are to believe early, un-optimized benchmarks (I'm inclined to believe Anand). That will trickle to the server space relatively quick - especially if Shanghai applies enough pressure.

I'm very pleased with my current Intel platforms and soon-to-be-built Intel platform, but I would certainly welcome some aggressive competition from AMD, outside of the GPU market, that is...


RE: Just in time for Nehalem...
By rudolphna on 9/30/2008 3:11:56 PM , Rating: 2
I agree there. What I dont however, agree with is how people diss the K8 and K10. While not as fast as The C2D, they are definetly no slouches. Im considering either the Intel E5200 or AMD Athlon +5400 for my gaming pc. Im leaning toward AMD with the ATi 4670, on a AMD 770 platform. AMD needs a boost, and its a huge improvement one way or another over my Pentium 4 630


RE: Just in time for Nehalem...
By therealnickdanger on 9/30/2008 4:00:10 PM , Rating: 2
I just don't like having multiple computers on different platforms, as weird as that sounds. I kind of go with platform generations when purchasing without mixing and matching for a number of years at a time:

Socket 5 with early Pentiums
Socket 7 with K6-2s
Slot A for Athlon!
Socket 478 with Netburst (meh, wish I had held out for Socket 775 or Socket 939)
Almost went Socket AM2, but waited for Conroe on Socket 775 (kickass)

So now I'm waiting on Socket 1156 (Nehalem) and to see what AMD can do with Socket AM3...


RE: Just in time for Nehalem...
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 9/30/2008 4:23:36 PM , Rating: 2
Socket 1366 Nehalem would be a better bet, also comes with the tripple channel memory (6-Dimm's)


RE: Just in time for Nehalem...
By Alexvrb on 9/30/2008 10:17:34 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, cause I want to have to start buying three-packs of matched DIMMs. :P

It won't matter to most people, of course. But for some enthusiasts who want the most out of their memory, that's where its at. Either that or you chance it and just get individual DIMMs, maybe buy sticks that overshoot your original goal.


By therealnickdanger on 10/1/2008 7:44:26 AM , Rating: 2
Oops, my bad: 1366, not 1156.


RE: Just in time for Nehalem...
By Noya on 9/30/2008 4:42:42 PM , Rating: 2
Why not just go e7200 and a P45 and 4gb DDR2? Shop around and you can get all for about $200, and the e7200 will do 3.16ghz with a single BIOS change on the stock heatsink.


RE: Just in time for Nehalem...
By rudolphna on 9/30/2008 6:27:10 PM , Rating: 2
Im on a very strict budget. Right now, Ive got on my liste, the AMD +5400X2, 2GB of ADATA DDR2-800, an Antec 300 case, and an ASUS M3A78 AMD770 board, and ASUS HD4670. That comes in at under $400. and im gonna keep my Kingwin 450w PSU, 250GB WD SATA HDD, and Windows XP. Not too bad I think.


RE: Just in time for Nehalem...
By TETRONG on 10/1/2008 2:07:57 PM , Rating: 1
Did your sources at Anandtech inform you that Nehalem is lacking in the cache department?


By DeepBlue1975 on 10/2/2008 8:53:12 AM , Rating: 3
That's a pitty.

But if Shangai desktop can attain a performance significantly better than a 3hz C2Q, while costing the same or less than an equally powerful Nehalem, I would consider it, provided it can overclock well.
I'm among those guys who won't buy the fastest version of any CPU, but a mid-low end bin to overclock it as far as it goes on air refrigerated setups for the sake of getting the most bang for the buck.


RE: Just in time for Nehalem...
By Smiting Eye on 10/2/2008 11:32:29 AM , Rating: 2
I'm just glad to see they're making good advancements with Ruiz gone. I have a feeling some of the flubs at AMD were staff workers and management letting things slide through on purpose to make Ruiz look bad and get him out. Anyway, this looks good for them atm.


RE: Just in time for Nehalem...
By RdBiker on 9/30/2008 12:25:12 PM , Rating: 2
When Barcelona launched AMD said that the architecture wouldn't truly shine before it hit higher clockspeeds. Now, assuming they reach higher speeds, we'll see if that was just marketing talk.
Are the Shanghai CPUs still aimed at a Q4 launch or have they changed that?


RE: Just in time for Nehalem...
By blafrisch on 9/30/2008 12:30:21 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Shanghai will also utilize AMD's HyperTransport 3, which AMD expects to be validated in Q1 2009. A 45nm desktop Shanghai part will be offered in Q1 2009 according to CNET News.


RE: Just in time for Nehalem...
By omnicronx on 9/30/2008 12:45:08 PM , Rating: 2
To follow up, Shanghai will be released on HT2+ boards to begin with, it is not until HT3 boards are released that we will see the real potential of Shanghai (if it lives up to the hype)


RE: Just in time for Nehalem...
By Natfly on 9/30/2008 12:45:10 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
As a result, the schedule for Shanghai has been pulled in. "Originally the plan was that Shanghai would launch in Q1 of '09 and we were able to pull that into Q4," according to Patla, adding that the product will not only be announced in the fourth quarter but vendors will be shipping servers in the fourth quarter.

From: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10054038-64.html...

Shanghai, the server processors will be available this year. The desktop version, Deneb:

quote:
Shanghai will be followed by a 45-nanometer desktop processor code-named Deneb, which is due to launch in the fourth quarter of this year or first quarter of 2009, AMD said.


By psychobriggsy on 9/30/2008 12:53:06 PM , Rating: 2
Shanghai in its Opteron form will appear very soon (possibly October) running on the current Opteron platform (S1207 and HT1 I believe).

Shanghai in its desktop form (Deneb) will appear later this year (December?) on the current desktop platform (AM2+) with HT2.

Then it will move to HT3 on the AM3 platform early next year once it is ready, validated, etc.


Talk about overworked
By MrBungle123 on 9/30/2008 1:43:30 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
To help ensure that Shanghai succeeds and offer users a better experience than Barcelona, AMD put one engineer in charge of the entire Shanghai project.


wow, one engineer... I knew AMD had done some layoffs but damn, this may be taking things a bit far. CPUs are pretty complicated this guy must live at his desk and still be months behind.




RE: Talk about overworked
By SilthDraeth on 9/30/2008 2:26:49 PM , Rating: 1
One engineer to me, means the guy is brilliant, and there won't be conflicting instructions from different engineers.

But he is still probably over worked.


RE: Talk about overworked
By elegault on 9/30/2008 3:13:32 PM , Rating: 4
One Engineer to LEAD the team.


RE: Talk about overworked
By radializer on 9/30/2008 3:28:05 PM , Rating: 5
One Engineer to rule them all, one Engineer to fine-tune them ...


RE: Talk about overworked
By elessar1 on 10/1/08, Rating: 0
RE: Talk about overworked
By Jellodyne on 10/7/2008 3:04:19 PM , Rating: 2
...One engineer to bring them all to Dresden, and in the silicon bind them.


RE: Talk about overworked
By Clauzii on 9/30/2008 6:46:13 PM , Rating: 3
Obviously he was telling a joke ;)


RE: Talk about overworked
By rudolphna on 9/30/2008 3:14:03 PM , Rating: 2
they probably mean like, he is in charge of overseeing the program, and the compatability, all the big decisions etc. I dont think they mean they have one engineer sitting in the clean room or at the computer putting it together.


RE: Talk about overworked
By Amiga500 on 10/1/2008 6:01:12 AM , Rating: 4
Better having an engineer in charge than a useless hot-air balloon of a "manager".


Ready to rock? Really?
By kjboughton on 9/30/2008 12:49:27 PM , Rating: 2
I'd say it's 'Ready to Rock' when I can buy a retail unit off of Newegg. Until then, it's definately NOT 'Ready to Rock'.




RE: Ready to rock? Really?
By middlehead on 9/30/2008 1:47:56 PM , Rating: 4
No, it's ready to rock. The rocking simply has not commenced.


RE: Ready to rock? Really?
By Smartless on 9/30/2008 2:21:51 PM , Rating: 2
Hopefully it doesn't mean to Fly like a rock.


RE: Ready to rock? Really?
By foolsgambit11 on 9/30/2008 3:14:47 PM , Rating: 3
Let's just hope the rocking planned is like a metal band, and not like a grandmother in her rocking chair.


Too little too late
By icanhascpu on 9/30/2008 12:45:03 PM , Rating: 2
Is this chip even as fast as the Core2 preformance per watt? Let alone Intels next up.




RE: Too little too late
By mackintire on 9/30/2008 1:34:50 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, it is as fast as Core2 quad per clock and possibly more efficient per watt in some instances. From what I have seen these chips will be equal to Core2 chips in performance.

It is not however as fast as the Intel i7core Nehalem processors on a per clock basis.

The big question is when multiple sockets are involved, how much faster is this system going to perform than a Intel based system. AMD's shanghai may be fast superior in certain applications involving multiple sockets and well threaded applications.


RE: Too little too late
By raddude9 on 9/30/2008 5:43:28 PM , Rating: 2
Performance per watt is fine for a laptop, but on the desktop "performance per $" is the most important thing for me.
Also, I like a toasty desktop to help heat my apartment ;-)


RE: Too little too late
By rudolphna on 10/1/2008 11:15:14 AM , Rating: 2
Ill trade you my 3Ghz Pentium 4 with HD2600XT lol. It makes a nice little space heater :)


Question
By FITCamaro on 9/30/2008 12:43:35 PM , Rating: 1
Barcelona is currently 3 instructions per clock yes?
As is Conroe and Nehalem.

quote:
AMD is also moving the cache memory from 2MB to 6MB to improve performance and it says that instructions per clock cycle will be increased as well.


Does this mean Shanghai will do 4 instructions per clock? Would definitely give AMD possible advantage if so.




RE: Question
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 9/30/2008 4:45:43 PM , Rating: 2
Conroe is 1x 128-bit instruction per cycle.
Nehalem is unknown.
Barcelona is also 1x 128-bit instruction per cycle.


RE: Question
By omnicronx on 10/1/2008 3:16:39 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
K8L's(barcelona) two floating-point/SSE pipes give it two 128-bit SSE ops/cycle, and its FSTORE pipe can do another 128-bit SSE move per cycle, for a total of three per cycle peak. This is half of Conroe's peak theoretical throughput of six 128-bit SSE ops/cycle.


RE: Question
By MrPoletski on 10/2/2008 7:43:17 AM , Rating: 2
Its all a bit meaningless how many instructions it can peak at per cycle... though I will say one thing, the hyperthreading on the nehalem will allow it to get closer to that peak.


20/20 hindsight is always good for a laugh
By Beenthere on 9/30/2008 4:21:05 PM , Rating: 2
To read the 20/20 hindsight you'd think Barcelona was some dud of a CPU when in fact it was a very sucessful CPU that has generated billions in revenue for AMD and served many people and industries quite well. Yes AMD did have some execution issues and Barcelona did not ramp or scale as AMD had hoped, but Barcelona was a very good product in the progression of CPU evolution. For those with short memories Intel's products were uncompetitive for over two years. Not every new generation of CPU meets all expectations. That's reality.

Shanghai should be a better experience for AMD and consumers. Even if Shanghai derivatives are not quite as fast as Intel's new product-of-the-week, supporting AMD is in everyone's best interest except for Intel. As history has shown time and time again, Intel and Microsucks are more than willing to violate law to obtain an illegal monopoly for pure financial gain, aka rape of consumers ala OPEC and the oil industry. IMO, unless consumers desire to be gang raped daily by the WinTels of the world, you'd be wise to spend some of your hard earned money on AMD products, which are likely to return as good or better value as Intel's products without any significant loss of usable performance. Voting with you wallet gives you CPU choices now and in the future and sends a clear message to Intel about their unscrupulous business practices.




By Pavelyoung on 10/4/2008 11:30:53 PM , Rating: 1
Yes yes, we know intel bad AMD good ugh ugh.

AMD's situation is AMD's fault. They were the ones that got lax and failed to see the intel advances, until they were slapped in the face with them. By then AMD was already a generation behind.

AMD has been trying to play catch up ever since then.


By smilingcrow on 9/30/2008 1:12:16 PM , Rating: 2
When will Shanghai face a challenge from the Xeon Nehalems for dual sockets? I think it’s called Gainestown and that will be an interesting battle.
Gainestown will likely be used in future Mac Pros so there should be a lot of interest in that platform from the Jobsvilles.




By kilkennycat on 10/1/2008 3:03:43 AM , Rating: 2
Anybody benched a Shanghai in the wild ?

I didn't think so.

AMD next quarterly report should be (macabre) fun... Only bright corner is ATi, but that contribution is not going to keep AMD afloat. Wonder where they are going to get their next loan if they have yet another operating loss? A very bad time to be a heavy-duty business debtor.....If AMD goes under, Intel would no doubt be very happy to grab ATi's talent. They need all the help on Larrabee that they can get.




Go AMD!
By Yaron on 10/1/2008 7:45:55 AM , Rating: 2
Common guys, you can do it!
Release these killer CPUs and give us consumers some good options! The ATI4800 series is just another proof that AMD/ATI is a talented company.

It will be awesome to see your CPUs on the desktops again (and yes, I know Shanghai is a server chip...)




Integrated SSD Controller
By Shadowmaster625 on 10/9/2008 1:54:02 PM , Rating: 2
If you have a 3GHz Athlon or C2D, you wont gain much by moving to the next generation CPU.

If AMD really wanted performance, they would find a way to implement a chipset-based or integrated SSD controller. With a direct HT link to the CPU, or something similar. And then create a new open standard for a Flash SSD DIMM socket.

Then I could buy a 32 or 64 GB SSD DIMM and plug it into a socket next to my RAM, and have a SUPER-FAST hard drive. Imagine a SSD DIMM that costs $50 and puts out even better numbers than the Fusion-IO! AMD could offer it in a chipset solution, or even integrate it into their CPU, and with economy of scale it would only cost a few dollers per CPU. But the performance would blow intel off the field. The cost of the DIMMs would be low because there would be no expensive controller on the module, like there is now with flash SSDs. If you think about it, it really makes no sense to pay for all that hardware when a link to the CPU is all you really need.




Just a thought
By crystal clear on 9/30/2008 4:04:00 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
"Shanghai" is Ready to Rock says AMD</quote

The appropriate response to this claim would be-

shut up & deliver

Then on a another thought I ask -

whats the motivation behind such claims ?

Any AMD event ?

On a quck check I find this-

AMD will announce its Q3-08 earnings after market close on Thursday, October 16, 2008.




AMD Does Servers?
By kstatefan40 on 10/2/08, Rating: 0
"If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion." -- Scientology founder L. Ron. Hubbard

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